Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/24/1994 08:00 AM STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                        February 24, 1994                                      
                            8:00 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Al Vezey, Chairman                                            
  Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman                                      
  Representative Gary Davis                                                    
  Representative Harley Olberg                                                 
  Representative Jerry Sanders                                                 
  Representative Fran Ulmer                                                    
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Bettye Davis                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 351:   "An Act relating to the issuance of permits for                    
            the carrying of a concealed weapon."                               
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  HJR 40:   Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the                  
            State of Alaska relating to the individual right                   
            to keep and bear arms.                                             
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  *HB 378:  "An Act relating to the Older Alaskans Commission                  
            and staff of the commission; changing the name of                  
            the Older Alaskans Commission to the Alaska                        
            Commission on Aging and extending the termination                  
            date of the commission; relating to the Alaska                     
            Pioneers' Homes Advisory Board; relating to                        
            services and programs for older Alaskans; and                      
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            HELD OVER                                                          
                                                                               
  HB 394:   "An Act relating to limited partnerships; and                      
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  *HB 436:  "An Act prohibiting the Department of                              
            Environmental Conservation from adopting or                        
            enforcing a regulation that establishes an ambient                 
            air quality standard or emission standard that is                  
            more stringent than a corresponding federal                        
            standard; and providing for an effective date."                    
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES                                               
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 501                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-3743                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of CSHB 351                                     
                                                                               
  THOMAS THEISEN                                                               
  P.O. Box 212                                                                 
  Delta Junction, AK  99737                                                    
  Phone:  895-4850                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  MARK CHRYSON, State Representative                                           
  Gun Owners of America                                                        
  2140 Wolverine Circle                                                        
  Wasilla, AK  99654                                                           
  Phone:  376-8285                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  ROY BRITTAIN                                                                 
  HC60 Box 330-M                                                               
  Copper Center, AK  99573                                                     
  Phone:  822-3051                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  LYMAN NICHOLS                                                                
  P.O. Box 783                                                                 
  Cooper Landing, AK  99572                                                    
  Phone:  Not given.                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  MICHAEL GEBHART                                                              
  P.O. Box 677                                                                 
  Cooper Landing, AK  99572                                                    
  Phone:  Not given.                                                           
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  NANCY USERA, Commissioner                                                    
  Department of Administration                                                 
  P.O. Box 110200                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-5671                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 351                            
                                                                               
  TIM BENINTENDI, Staff                                                        
  Representative Carl Moses                                                    
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 204                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-4451                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 394 on behalf of prime                  
                       sponsor                                                 
                                                                               
  ART PETERSON                                                                 
  Dillon & Findley, P.C.                                                       
  Uniform Law Commissioner                                                     
  National Conference of Commissioners for Uniform State Laws                  
  350 N. Franklin                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99801                                                            
  Phone:  586-4000                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 394                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY                                                      
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  Alaska State Capitol, Room 102                                               
  Juneau, AK  99811                                                            
  Phone:  465-3719                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 436                                       
                                                                               
  MICHAEL L. MENGE, Director                                                   
  Environmental Quality Division                                               
  Department of Environmental Conservation                                     
  410 Willoughby Ave. Ste. 105                                                 
  Juneau, AK  99801-1795                                                       
  Phone:  465-5260                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 436                                
                                                                               
  TOM CHAPPEL, Coordinator                                                     
  Stationary Source Program                                                    
  410 Willoughby Ave., Ste. 105                                                
  Juneau, AK  99801-1795                                                       
  Phone:  465-5102                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 436                                
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 351                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS                               
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES,Bunde,Olberg,Sanders                     
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/07/94      2019    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2019    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2020    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE                  
  01/12/94      2043    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                            
  01/22/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/22/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/12/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/12/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HJR 40                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS                                     
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SANDERS,Olberg,Green,Kott                      
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  04/13/93      1178    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/13/93      1178    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY                         
  04/20/93      1387    (H)   CORRECTION TO ORIGINAL                           
                              SPONSORS:                                        
  04/20/93      1387    (H)   SANDERS, OLBERG                                  
  04/22/93      1449    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                              
  05/01/93      1641    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOTT                               
  01/18/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/18/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/29/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/29/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/12/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/12/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 378                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: REVISE OLDER ALASKANS COMMISSION                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/14/94      2072    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/14/94      2072    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, HES, FINANCE                      
  01/14/94      2072    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (ADM) 1/14/94                  
  01/14/94      2073    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 394                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: UNIFORM LIMITED PARTNERSHIP ACT UPDATE                          
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MOSES                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/21/94      2125    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/21/94      2125    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE,STATE AFFAIRS,                  
                              FINANCE                                          
  02/03/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  02/03/94              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   L&C RPT  5DP 2NR                                 
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   DP:GREEN,WILLIAMS,SITTON,PORTER                  
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   DP:  HUDSON                                      
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   NR:  MULDER, MACKIE                              
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED) 2/4/94                  
  02/04/94      2252    (H)   REFERRED TO STATE AFFAIRS                        
  02/24/94      2517    (H)   STA RPT  5DP 1NR                                 
  02/24/94      2517    (H)   DP:VEZEY,KOTT,G.DAVIS,ULMER,                     
                              SANDERS                                          
  02/24/94      2517    (H)   NR:  OLBERG                                      
  02/24/94      2518    (H)   -PREVIOUS ZERO FISCAL NOTE                       
                              (DCED) 2/4/94                                    
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 436                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: STRICTNESS OF AIR QUALITY REGS                                  
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY,Sitton                                   
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/04/94      2255    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/04/94      2255    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, RESOURCES                         
  02/07/94      2291    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  SITTON                            
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-18, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:01 a.m.                      
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS was present at the call to order;                    
  the rest of the members were expected shortly.  CHAIR VEZEY                  
  stated version U of CSHB 351 would be open for discussion.                   
  CSHB 351:  "An Act relating to permits for the carrying of a                 
  concealed weapon; relating to the authority of a court to                    
  prohibit persons convicted of certain misdemeanors from                      
  applying for, receiving, and possessing a permit to carry a                  
  concealed weapon; and relating to the possession of                          
  weapons."                                                                    
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVES OLBERG and KOTT joined the meeting at 8:04                  
  a.m.)                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 045                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS asked a question regarding                         
  exemptions in CSHB 351.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 058                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS stated that exemptions started on                    
  page 10, and it was his understanding that the statutes                      
  referenced on pages 15-19 are in reference to active police                  
  officers.                                                                    
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS joined the meeting at 8:05 a.m.)                     
                                                                               
  Number 067                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY replied AS 11.61.220 referred to persons in                      
  their home, persons engaged in hunting or fishing or                         
  otherwise allowed to carry a concealed weapon.  He said page                 
  10, paragraph (B), could be reread to clarify the other                      
  exemptions.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 089                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS opted for the CSHB 351 subcommittee                  
  members to inform him if there was any discussion relating                   
  to retired police officers which may be rolled into the                      
  permit process.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 098                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY believed CSHB 351 addressed retired police                       
  officers on page 7, line 14.  He said a person who has                       
  completed a law enforcement firearms safety and training                     
  course meets the requirements of eligibility.                                
                                                                               
  Number 124                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS repeated there have been some                        
  concerns on this issue.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 125                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY said he understood, and noted page 3, Section 3,                 
  line 3, where peace officers are automatically qualified to                  
  carry a concealed weapon and are exempt from the necessity                   
  of having a concealed weapon permit.  When a peace officer                   
  retires, he stated, they are required to obtain a permit,                    
  but are qualified by virtue of their training.                               
                                                                               
  Number 159                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS stated that with the training peace                  
  officers have already had, they should perhaps have a less                   
  stringent permit process than other individuals without                      
  training.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 166                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated peace officers would be prequalified, but                 
  they would have to pay a $50 initial fee and $25 every five                  
  years.  He noted in Section 3, a provision of AS 11.61.220                   
  which reads, "prohibitions of carrying a concealed weapon",                  
  does not apply to a peace officer.  He stated the words,                     
  "acting within the scope and authority of the officer's                      
  employment," had been deleted so that peace officers may                     
  carry a concealed weapon off-duty or out of their                            
  jurisdiction.                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, prime                 
  sponsor of CSHB 351, and asked her to join the committee                     
  table in REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS's seat.  He said                            
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS would not be attending the meeting.                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY stated CSHB 351 still did not have a fiscal                      
  note.  The intent has been, by including the fee structure,                  
  to have CSHB 351 be revenue neutral.  A fiscal note would                    
  have to be received before it could be transmitted to the                    
  Clerk's Office.                                                              
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER joined the meeting at 8:10 a.m.)                       
                                                                               
  Number 203                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES commended the committee for                   
  all of the hard work put into CSHB 351.  She said she was                    
  pleased with the results.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG moved to adopt CSHB 351.  He                    
  then made a motion to pass CSHB 351, with fiscal note, from                  
  committee with individual recommendations, asking for                        
  unanimous consent.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 224                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the split motions and the committee                   
  secretary called the roll to adopt CSHB 351.  The committee                  
  adopted CSHB 351.  The committee secretary called the roll                   
  to pass CSHB 351 from committee.  CHAIR VEZEY announced that                 
  CSHB 351 passed unanimously from committee with individual                   
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY allowed for teleconference sites to enter                        
  comments on CSHB 351, beginning with Delta Junction.                         
                                                                               
  Number 253                                                                   
                                                                               
  THOMAS THEISEN testified he was in favor of HB 351.                          
                                                                               
  Number 258                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Mat-Su teleconference site.                         
                                                                               
  Number 262                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARK CHRYSON, STATE REPRESENTATIVE GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA,                    
  thanked the committee for passing CSHB 351.  He asked if HJR
  40 would be considered today.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 268                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY responded that HJR 40 would be the next item on                  
  the agenda, and moved to the Kenny Lake teleconference site.                 
                                                                               
  Number 290                                                                   
                                                                               
  ROY BRITTAIN testified in favor of CSHB 351.  He knew of two                 
  vicious attacks on elderly people in Fairbanks and felt                      
  carrying concealed weapons was imperative for elderly                        
  persons.  MR. BRITTAIN said he had been approached twice                     
  while carrying night deposit bags and he believed carrying a                 
  concealed saved him from getting harmed.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 306                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Cooper Landing teleconference site.                 
                                                                               
  Number 308                                                                   
                                                                               
  LYMAN NICHOLS thanked the committee for passing CSHB 351 and                 
  felt it was much needed.                                                     
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS left the meeting at 8:15 a.m.)                       
                                                                               
  Number 319                                                                   
                                                                               
  MICHAEL GEBHART testified in favor of CSHB 351 and felt it                   
  would benefit the law enforcement in his community.                          
  HJR 40 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS                                         
                                                                               
  Number 324                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY opened HJR 40 for discussion and asked the                       
  pleasure of the committee.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 333                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT believed there had been numerous                    
  amounts of testimony on HJR 40 and moved to pass it out of                   
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 337                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized REPRESENTATIVE KOTT's motion.  The                    
  committee secretary called the roll, and HJR 40 passed from                  
  the House State Affairs Committee with individual                            
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY notified committee members that their packets                    
  for each meeting would be available in their respective file                 
  drawers before each meeting.                                                 
  HB 378 - REVISE OLDER ALASKANS COMMISSION                                    
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY opened HB 378 for discussion.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 368                                                                   
                                                                               
  NANCY USERA, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION,                     
  testified in favor of HB 378.  She stated Governor Hickel                    
  has submitted a package of three bills to the legislature in                 
  an effort to strengthen the safety net and provide a better                  
  continuum of care for seniors in Alaska.  She said HB 378                    
  follows through on an administrative order, having gone into                 
  effect earlier in 1994, which merged the Division of Pioneer                 
  Benefits and the Division of the Older Alaskans Commission                   
  into one administrative division.                                            
                                                                               
  MS. USERA explained that HB 378 establishes a more                           
  centralized delivery system for senior citizens and one                      
  point of entry for seniors into the system.  A concern,                      
  expressed by seniors throughout the state, is that it can be                 
  very confusing trying to access available services because                   
  of the wide variety of divisions.                                            
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said both the Older Alaskans Commission and the                    
  Division of Pioneer Home Advisory Board will remain                          
  virtually intact as they were before.  The Older Alaskans                    
  Commission becomes the Alaska Commission on Aging, being                     
  more consistent with interfacing federal funding and actions                 
  in other states.                                                             
                                                                               
  MS. USERA stated HB 378 reduces the mandatory number of                      
  meetings for the Pioneer Home Advisory Board and the                         
  Commission on Aging because it is very difficult to get them                 
  to meet on a regular basis.                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said an interchange of information will be created                 
  by HB 378 when the chairman of one commission will be a                      
  member of the other board, and vice versa.                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA noted that HB 378 provides a term limit whereby                    
  current members will be allowed to serve up to eight more                    
  years and then it transitions to staggered terms.  MS. USERA                 
  noted the Pioneer Home Advisory Board is very supportive of                  
  term limits.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said the chairperson of the pioneers' home board                   
  and the commissioner of Health & Social Services, Community                  
  and Regional Affairs administration, are made voting members                 
  of the Commission on Aging, rather than non-voting.                          
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said the governor will be empowered to appoint the                 
  chairman of each of the boards.  She noted this provision is                 
  probably the only one out of all three bills with opposition                 
  to it.  Both of the boards would prefer to elect their own                   
  chairman among the members because they feel they are better                 
  suited to determine who would be the best to perform                         
  chairmanship duties.                                                         
                                                                               
  MS. USERA explained the opposite view, whereby the                           
  Commission on Aging, "which has a statutory mandate to also                  
  be an advocate for those programs, to have a chairman                        
  personally appointed by the governor, it strengthens that                    
  board's access to the executive office and provides better                   
  conduit for advocacy."  She felt it would be in the best                     
  interest of the boards to establish this relationship with                   
  the governor.                                                                
                                                                               
  MS. USERA noted HB 378 includes language to clarify the                      
  executive director of the commission carries out the                         
  policies and decisions of the board.  MS. USERA said HB 378                  
  allows the commission the flexibility to reduce, or waive,                   
  or match requirements for grantees, when the waiver is in                    
  the public's interest.                                                       
                                                                               
  MS. USERA introduced CONNIE SIPE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE                  
  DIVISION OF SENIOR SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION,                   
  AND FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE OLDER ALASKANS                          
  COMMISSION, to offer her testimony to the committee.  She                    
  stated the committee should have letters of support from                     
  both boards, the AARP, and other seniors organizations with                  
  regard to the governor's initiative.  They are, however,                     
  opposed to the one provision which states the governor will                  
  appoint the chairman.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 453                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS believed MS. USERA's explanation of                  
  Section 7, which states, "the governor shall designate the                   
  chairman of the commission", implied she wanted access                       
  easier for the governor, as opposed to easier for the                        
  commission.  REP. DAVIS said he had been approached with                     
  this concern and the commission would be more comfortable                    
  choosing their own chairman.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 468                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA responded that all of the appointees on the                        
  commission are appointees of the governor.  She noted each                   
  person is appointed by the governor in any case.  She and                    
  the people who have worked with boards and commissions have                  
  observed that when there is a close working relationship                     
  between the chairman of a commission and the governor's                      
  office, the issues before that commission raise the level of                 
  attention it gets.  She stated her intention was to make                     
  sure senior's program issues maintain a high policy level                    
  profile.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MS. USERA responded to REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS that Section                  
  7 was not for the purpose of easing the relationship for the                 
  governor, it is to provide better advocacy and more policy                   
  consideration to senior's issues.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 489                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS continued it was his understanding                   
  that HB 378 is merging two commissions; however, it still                    
  talks about the Pioneers' Home Advisory Board.  He did not                   
  see where it was eliminated.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 496                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA replied the two divisions are not merged.  She                     
  said HB 378 maintains both boards separately, but houses                     
  them in a single division administratively.  The Older                       
  Alaskans Commission has a name change and the Pioneers' Home                 
  Advisory Board stays virtually as it is.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 501                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS questioned if they could be merged.                  
                                                                               
  Number 503                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER recollected Governor Hickel, when                  
  first elected, went through a proces of merging and                          
  eliminating commissions, and she thought the Older Alaskans                  
  Commission and the Pioneers' Home Advisory Board were slated                 
  for a merger.  She then asked why they are not, and is it                    
  because their missions are so distinctly different.                          
                                                                               
  Number 509                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA responded that at one time the Older Alaskans                      
  Commission was banned from discussing anything that                          
  pertained to the Pioneers' Home Advisory Board.  She said HB
  378 would be a huge step in bringing senior's programs                       
  together and merging them.  The primary function of the                      
  Pioneers' Home Advisory Board is to conduct annual reviews                   
  of the homes by interfacing with local councils and doing on                 
  sight reviews.  Bonding the commissions administratively                     
  will create more consistent policies.  The Department of                     
  Administration felt the pioneers still had a real need to                    
  have their own identification.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 529                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER felt HB 378 was more housekeeping and                   
  administrative action, rather than a policy question.  She                   
  asked what the senior citizen's perspective was of the                       
  difference HB 378 will make.                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY interrupted and asked the teleconference                         
  operator to disconnect the teleconference if she could                       
  determine the source of the technical difficulties.                          
                                                                               
  Number 539                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA agreed HB 378 is primarily housekeeping.  She said                 
  HB 378 is necessary to clean up the statutes as the result                   
  of the administrative order, which merged the two divisions.                 
  The adult protection functions and assistant living                          
  licensing will move into this division.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 554                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER commented that the division would be                    
  "sort of like one stop shopping."                                            
                                                                               
  Number 555                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA agreed.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 556                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired how the chairperson is selected                 
  presently for the two boards.  Internally from the                           
  membership?  Or is the governor determining the chairperson?                 
                                                                               
  Number 560                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA answered that the governor appoints the members of                 
  the commission and then the members elect their chairman                     
  among themselves.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 561                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if this process was not working                    
  well.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 562                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said the question is not whether HB 378 would be                   
  fixing something that is "broken," rather it is a question                   
  of implanting something that may do a better job at                          
  providing policy development and focusing on senior's                        
  issues.  The commissions need not just give advice to the                    
  administrators, but actually have a real role in developing                  
  policies affecting the senior constituency in Alaska.  When                  
  her department looked at things to help senior's policy                      
  advance, having the governor designate the chairperson was                   
  one of the recommendations.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS clarified there had been opposition                  
  to this action.                                                              
                                                                               
  MS. USERA responded, not the seniors particularly, but the                   
  boards themselves prefer to elect their own chairman.                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG questioned if a provision making an                    
  all senior services needs base would be a simple addition to                 
  HB 378.                                                                      
                                                                               
  MS. USERA answered no, it would be a simple addition.                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG clarified it would be complicated.                     
                                                                               
  MS. USERA said it would be very complicated.                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if it would be worth                             
  considering.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 588                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA responded it would not be the intent of HB 378.                    
                                                                               
  Number 589                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked for further questions from the committee.                  
  Having no more questions from the committee, he stated it                    
  was not necessary for CONNIE SIPE testify.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 595                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS recalled COMMISSIONER USERA to ask                   
  her another question.  He asked how objectionable the                        
  Department of Administration would be if the committee                       
  allowed the commissions to elect their chair.                                
                                                                               
  Number 599                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. USERA replied that the "governor certainly would not                     
  veto the bill if that were to occur."                                        
                                                                               
  Number 602                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there were any further                          
  witnesses to testify on HB 378.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 605                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY said there were additional witnesses by                          
  teleconference; however, all teleconference sites had been                   
  disconnected.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 606                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked what CHAIR VEZEY's intent was on                   
  HB 378 and if he intended to move it to Health & Social                      
  Services.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 608                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY responded that HB 378 could be amended, held in                  
  committee, or passed on as is.  He noted he had reviewed it                  
  and felt COMMISSIONER USERA had explained it well.                           
                                                                               
  Number 612                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to amend page 3, Section 7, with                   
  language to ensure the commission members would determine                    
  their own chairman.  He could see the rationale to have the                  
  governor appoint the chair; however, a dominating                            
  chairperson may cause problems in the future.                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the amendment and stated the                          
  amendment would probably be just to delete Section 7.  He                    
  asked for the committee aide to hand him Title 44.  CHAIR                    
  VEZEY stated the "current statute provides that the                          
  commission shall elect one of its members as chairperson,                    
  and may select other officers if considered necessary."  He                  
  asked REPRESENTATIVE KOTT if deleting Section 7 would be his                 
  motion.                                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said deleting Section 7 would be the                     
  motion.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 642                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the motion to delete Section 7.                       
                                                                               
  Number 643                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated Section 7 only deals with the                    
  Commission on Aging, not the chairmanship of the Pioneers'                   
  Home Advisory Board.  Deleting Section 7 would only be half                  
  of the amendment.  She suggested deleting subsection (c),                    
  line 17, on page 2.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 659                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY noted the section would have to be reworded.                     
                                                                               
  Number 661                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER believed deleting subsection (c), line                  
  17, on page 2, would be enough and the section could be left                 
  as is.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 664                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated Amendment 1 one would be to                       
  delete line 17, Section 3, subsection (c), on page 2, and                    
  also Section 7, lines 11-13, on page 3.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 670                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the motion to amend HB 378.  The                      
  committee secretary called roll, and Amendment 1 passed by a                 
  simple majority.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY said he preferred to have the committee                          
  substitute before the committee before passing it out.                       
  Hearing no more questions or comments, HB 378 was held over                  
  in committee.                                                                
  CHAIR VEZEY called for a short recess at 8:47 a.m.                           
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-18, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY called the meeting back to order at 9:02 a.m.                    
  and opened discussion on HB 394.                                             
  HB 394 - UNIFORM LIMITED PARTNERSHIP ACT UPDATE                              
                                                                               
  Number 018                                                                   
                                                                               
  TIM BENINTENDI, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES, Prime                      
  Sponsor of HB 394, presented the sponsor statement.  He said                 
  HB 394 completes the upgrade of the Uniform Limited                          
  Partnership Act, Title 32, by adopting the recommended                       
  uniform rule of the National Conference of Commissioners on                  
  Uniform State Law.  He said HB 394 regards the form of                       
  registration or certification of limited partnerships.                       
  Section 1 reduces the amount of information which must be                    
  provided.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI stated the language currently on the books                    
  dates back to 1917 and needs to be upgraded; the bulk of                     
  Title 32 was upgraded in 1992.  The legislature, at the                      
  time, adopted the National Conference's 1976 rewrite of                      
  Limited Partnership Law with amendments made to it from                      
  1985.  This process was done except the portion dealing with                 
  certification because of a conflict between the use of the                   
  long form, currently being used, or the short form.  The                     
  sponsor of the bill did finally agree to the short form;                     
  however, it was too late to amend the bill.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI stated in 1993, HB 112 was submitted, which                   
  upgraded the certification requirements, passing both                        
  houses.  At the end of session, however, Senator Steve                       
  Rieger amended HB 112 based on personal experience.   Legal                  
  Services and House Rules determined the amendment would not                  
  hurt the bill, and HB 112 passed with the amendment.                         
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI found out, over time, that the amendment                      
  would have caused problems.  He referred to a letter from                    
  David Shaftel, dated January 10, 1994, which articulated the                 
  two main problems the amendment created.  (A copy of this                    
  letter is on file.)  First, he said, the amendment would                     
  have caused the elimination of some creditor protection                      
  benefits.  Secondly, there would have been a denial of the                   
  state tax reduction for those limited partnerships that are                  
  formed to manage estates.   He stated Mr. Shaftel reiterated                 
  support for the original HB 112 from the 1993 session and                    
  also the reintroduction of that bill in the 1994 session, HB
  394.                                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI said HB 394 had been introduced to complete                   
  the upgrade of the Limited Partnership Act, without the                      
  Rieger amendment from 1993.  He stated the House Labor &                     
  Commerce Committee has successfully passed HB 394 out of                     
  that committee.                                                              
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI urged the passage of HB 394 from the House                    
  State Affairs Committee.  He noted ART PETERSON, UNIFORM LAW                 
  COMMISSIONER, was also present to answer more technical                      
  questions from the committee.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 125                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT questioned if MR. BENINTENDI had spoken                  
  with Senator Rieger to ensure he would not offer the same                    
  amendment again.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 129                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. BENINTENDI responded yes, Senator Rieger would not amend                 
  HB 394 again.  In 1993, there had not been a problem until                   
  meeting with the Bar Association, which specifically deals                   
  with these issues, and they noted problems for their                         
  clients.  MR. BENINTENDI noted that Senator Rieger does have                 
  concerns; however, he understands his amendment got beyond                   
  what he was hoping to do.  He said Senator Rieger does                       
  support HB 394.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 152                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY introduced ART PETERSON as the next person to                    
  testify.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  ART PETERSON, DILLON & FINDLEY ATTORNEY, UNIFORM LAW                         
  COMMISSIONER, stated the members of the National Conference                  
  range from private practitioners, to government attorneys,                   
  judges, law professors, etc.  He said HB 394 would complete                  
  the update of current law, which has not been altered since                  
  1917.  The main point of HB 394 is the simplification of                     
  what appears on the certificate of limited partnership.  The                 
  partnership agreement and the certificate are the two                        
  significant documents in a limited partnership.  The                         
  agreement creates the entity of the partnership, papers are                  
  filed, and the certificate is received.  The current long                    
  form certificate requires information which is no longer                     
  feasible.  When limited partnerships began, they were                        
  contemplated as a small entity with a limited number of                      
  people; a compromise between the corporation concept and the                 
  partnership concept.  Corporation concept means all the                      
  share holders have a limited liability.  Partnership concept                 
  means all the partners have general liability.  Limited                      
  partnership combines both general partners, whose name is                    
  important to lenders and investors, and limited partners.                    
  The general partners will continue to appear on the                          
  certificate, but oftentimes thousands of limited partners                    
  who trade their shares daily will not be.                                    
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON stated there is no way all of these limited                     
  partners can possibly be transferred to the certificate.  He                 
  said HB 394, Section 20, states the information will be                      
  located at partnership headquarters.  For a foreign limited                  
  partnership, Section 18 requires the information.  The only                  
  concern of the state in HB 394 would be the simplification                   
  of the amount of filings the state has to keep track of.  He                 
  understood HB 112 passed overwhelmingly in 1993 by both                      
  Houses and the only reason for the veto by the governor was                  
  the addition of Senator Rieger's amendment.  Because of the                  
  possibility the courts or the IRS might rule differently                     
  than the intent of HB 112, the practitioners who examined HB
  112 felt the public may be disadvantaged by a bill which                     
  should provide a great deal of business benefit.  The                        
  governor, therefore, vetoed HB 112 while still in favor of                   
  its' intent.  The governor, executive branch, practicing                     
  attorneys throughout Alaska, and the Uniform Law                             
  Commissioners for Alaska all support HB 394.  MR. PETERSON                   
  urged the committee to pass HB 394 from committee.                           
                                                                               
  Number 244                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked the full name of the National Conference.                  
                                                                               
  Number 248                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON answered the full name is the National                          
  Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws (NCCUSL).                  
  The NCCUSL produces universally accepted things, such as                     
  Uniform Commercial Code and the Uniform Child Custody                        
  Jurisdiction Act, both of which govern the law in all                        
  jurisdictions.  Alaska has enacted 64 uniform acts.                          
                                                                               
  Number 257                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS responded that HB 394 sounded like a                 
  definite must.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 263                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY reiterated MR. PETERSON was endorsing HB 394.                    
  He stated he had not received any negative comments on HB
  394.                                                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if Alaskans had an advantage in having a                   
  limited partnership act in conformity with other states.                     
                                                                               
  Number 274                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON responded that Alaska would have an advantage.                  
  Alaska is currently under an antiquated system, even with                    
  the amendments, and not having the certification process                     
  upgraded puts Alaska behind.  He stated, "outside money is                   
  not going to come into a state that has an antiquated system                 
  of such significance.  Secondly, Alaskans who want to ...                    
  get the benefit of this form of business entity, will not be                 
  able to do so.  They can go down to Seattle [and] create                     
  their limited partnership."  He said HB 394 will promote                     
  activity in Alaska and the interstate exchange because                       
  partnerships, limited partnerships, and corporations do not                  
  live within single state boundaries.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 288                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY clarified it was MR. PETERSON'S opinion that                     
  because of the state of Alaska's laws, the state has not had                 
  a lot of limited partnership formations or participation.                    
                                                                               
  Number 291                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON said he was not an expert, but he was sure the                  
  laws have been a deterrent.  He felt HB 394 would benefit                    
  Alaskans substantially.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 299                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER clarified that HB 394 is exactly the                    
  same bill as HB 112, which passed unanimously on the House                   
  floor in 1993.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 302                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON replied there are four changes, all of which                    
  are time changes.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 303                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER clarified there are no substantive                      
  policy changes.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 305                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON said REPRESENTATIVE ULMER was correct.                          
                                                                               
  Number 306                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY understood there had been changes.                               
                                                                               
  Number 307                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PETERSON replied with examples of a few changes.  The                    
  lead in lines are all different because the anticipated                      
  effective date of the comprehensive amendment, which read                    
  July 3, 1993, is now in the past.  The effective date is now                 
  immediate.  He repeated all the changes are related to the                   
  fact that the comprehensive revision has already taken                       
  effect, whereas in 1933 it was still in the future.                          
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY asked if the committee had a motion.                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER moved to pass HB 394 from committee                     
  with individual recommendations, asking unanimous consent.                   
                                                                               
  Number 331                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY recognized the motion and announced HB 394 had                   
  passed from the House State Affairs Committee with                           
  individual recommendations.   CHAIR VEZEY noted                              
  REPRESENTATIVES B. DAVIS and SANDERS were absent and all of                  
  the other committee members were concurring.                                 
  HB 436 - STRICTNESS OF AIR QUALITY REGULATIONS                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR VEZEY announced himself as the sponsor of HB 436 and                   
  passed the gavel to VICE-CHAIRMAN KOTT.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 341                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE-CHAIRMAN KOTT accepted the gavel and asked                              
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY for his sponsor statement.                              
                                                                               
  Number 342                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY began an overview of HB 436.  He said                   
  HB 436 states the Department of Environmental Conservation                   
  (DEC) may not set up air quality standards that are more                     
  strict than the federal standards.  He felt HB 436 was a                     
  very important political policy decision.  REPRESENTATIVE                    
  VEZEY introduced HB 436 because if the state is going to                     
  impose more strict standards, it should be done through the                  
  legislature, and not through the Administrative Procedures                   
  Act.  He pointed out the governor's task force on regulatory                 
  reform has made a "blanket recommendation in this same                       
  general area."                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 360                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked if there was an imminent reason                   
  to believe standards will rise or if there has been an issue                 
  in REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY's district she was not aware of.                     
                                                                               
  Number 367                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he was not personally aware of the                 
  pending regulations, but he had heard talk of some                           
  considerations.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 371                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG noted the DEC position paper (on file)                 
  references the Healy Clean Coal Project, Kenai Plant, and                    
  the Marine Terminal in Valdez.  He understood the DEC paper                  
  to say that if it had not been for their ability to more                     
  strictly regulate air quality at the Healy Clean Coal                        
  Project, because the National Park Service thought they had                  
  veto power over the project, it may not have gone ahead.                     
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated the DEC wants to reserve a case                 
  by case ability to regulate air quality in a specific                        
  location, but he felt the legislature should have that                       
  ability and not the DEC.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 384                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he did not mean to mislead                         
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER because he was aware of the permitting                  
  process at the Healy Clean Coal Project.  He had thought the                 
  Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) or the Park Service                    
  had the permit, not the DEC.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG responded that the Park Service had no                 
  authority over the project, other than the Park is across                    
  the highway from the plant.  The Park Service forced the air                 
  quality standards down so low that the plant is no longer                    
  allowed to emit visible smoke because it may destroy Denali                  
  National Park and a large portion of the Park Service's                      
  budget.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 398                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated, after reading the DEC position                  
  paper, that one sentence leaped out at her stating,                          
  "Retaining authority to responsibly address pollution issues                 
  of local concern is at its center of states rights issue."                   
  She felt it was funny that HB 436 was saying, "if the feds                   
  make us do it, it's okay, but we can't do our own thing, or                  
  we don't trust DEC to have the flexibility to do their own                   
  thing even if it may result in economic development like the                 
  Healy Clean Coal Project moving forward more expeditiously."                 
  She felt the committee should have the DEC testify for the                   
  committee to show how the permitting process has worked.                     
                                                                               
  Number 411                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG felt the DEC ought to testify before                   
  the Resources Committee, noting today's meeting was not                      
  secret.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 416                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE-CHAIRMAN KOTT responded that REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG was                  
  correct and, in looking over the witness register, he did                    
  not see anyone signed up to testify from the DEC.  He noted                  
  two men from the DEC were in the audience and invited them                   
  to testify.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 422                                                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE MENGE, DIRECTOR, ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY DIVISION, DEC,                   
  testified in opposition to HB 436 for two reasons.  First,                   
  having the legislature create "regulatory hurdles" for the                   
  DEC was a concern; therefore, they have built a lot of                       
  checks and balances into legislation over the past two                       
  years.  He said they have talked about the creation of a                     
  panel for review or public hearing.  Administrative burdens                  
  have been placed in the pathway of the DEC, now and in the                   
  future, to act indiscriminately.  Secondly, at times there                   
  is a great advantage to negotiate with a permit entity,                      
  being special interest groups, citizens groups, and state                    
  government, to create an acceptable package to meet all of                   
  their basic needs.  With primacy, the EPA has the authority                  
  to overrule an action by the state.  If the EPA is                           
  petitioned to set a standard for a particular area, the time                 
  it takes to complete the process is measured in years.  He                   
  believed there is a great advantage to being able to                         
  negotiate with all the parties, whereby an acceptable                        
  decision for all parties may be made, rather than not                        
  involving or deferring the DEC from such action.                             
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE stated that TOM CHAPPEL was present to testify for                 
  the committee.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 457                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked, with regard to the Healy Clean                   
  Coal Project, how does the flexibility of current law enable                 
  the permitting process to go more quickly and how would HB
  436, if adopted, slow it down?                                               
                                                                               
  Number 463                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE deferred REPRESENTATIVE ULMER's question to TOM                    
  CHAPPEL.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 464                                                                   
                                                                               
  TOM CHAPPEL, PROJECT MANAGER, PERMITS PROGRAM, DEC, answered                 
  specifically that the Healy project wanted to expand by                      
  putting in a new high technology demonstration project.                      
  Current emission levels at the plant, however, were                          
  relatively close to meeting ambience standards.  The                         
  addition of the new plant's pollution would, in summation,                   
  violate an ambient public health standard.  The new plant                    
  would have been adjacent to the existing plant, not in the                   
  park area.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL noted a provision in HB 436 would have prevented                 
  the DEC from entering into an agreement where the existing                   
  emissions would have been cut back to counterbalance the new                 
  emissions; therefore, the total increase would still be                      
  within public health standards.  The DEC is driven to                        
  maintain public health standards, and he recalled an                         
  application from Healy itself requested the cut back of the                  
  existing emissions to suit the standards.  The Healy project                 
  had estimated the additional emissions when they developed                   
  the project.  He stated this example was not driven by Park                  
  Service concerns.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 489                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked MR. CHAPPEL to clarify how the                    
  flexibility of the interplay between the federal and state                   
  requirements made it easier for Healy to go forward.                         
                                                                               
  Number 499                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL replied ambient public health standards (APHS)                   
  set upper-level concentrations which people breath.  The                     
  tool which guides whether a specific level is within or                      
  exceeding the standard is setting out-of-stack standards.                    
  The EPA will not allow the APHS to be exceeded.  DEC can,                    
  however, set emission standards that are more stringent that                 
  federal emission standards.  The emission standards of the                   
  new plant in Healy were set more stringent than federal                      
  emission standards.  The DEC also changed the emission                       
  standard for the existing plant so the combination of both                   
  plants would stay below the federal and state APHS.                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG submitted public health was less of a                  
  driving force than aesthetics in the Healy project.  He                      
  understood MR. CHAPPEL, but he thought the Park Service was                  
  a "big player" and questioned whether their concerns were                    
  not about public health, but aesthetics.                                     
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL responded that concerns generated from the Park                  
  Service were not about sulphur emissions, rather visible                     
  emissions.  Federal law requires a high protection of                        
  existing good air quality, such as that in Denali National                   
  Park.  Federal law sets stringent standards for pollution                    
  increases in those areas, of which there are few left in                     
  Alaska.  The Park Service, or federal land manager, has a                    
  role, through the Clean Air Act, to review permits the state                 
  issues and has the ability to object, even though the state                  
  has primacy.                                                                 
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE ULMER left the meeting at 9:20 a.m.)                         
                                                                               
  Number 540                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE added that MR. CHAPPEL's example was a good                        
  illustration of how complex the interaction is for the                       
  state.  He said Stack emission standards are an important                    
  tool for the state.  Without them, mediation would have to                   
  take place in Seattle.  He noted the process should not be                   
  so time-consuming so patience and money does not run out and                 
  the project does not go away.  He felt the state could step                  
  in and react quickly.  The Park Service may have been                        
  demanding, but the resolution was fast and it suited both                    
  parties.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 556                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS interpreted that the Healy project                   
  as it relates to the wording in HB 436 is that the DEC                       
  worked on stronger emission standards than federal law so                    
  the ambient air quality would be within federal standards.                   
  He asked if he was correct.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 563                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL said REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS was correct.                        
                                                                               
  Number 565                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG clarified the Park Service's primary                   
  interest was in visible smoke.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 567                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL responded yes, but also what pollution levels                    
  would pass within the park itself.  The technical                            
  assessments were resolved in the beginning.  Visible                         
  emissions are more difficult to estimate because the                         
  arguable factors are inexact and subjective.  The DEC                        
  heavily debated what assessment tools would be the best with                 
  the Park Service.  He felt the state had the advantage to                    
  decide and debate which tools would be used.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 583                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated HB 436 only removes the final                   
  decision making authority of the DEC relating to the                         
  negotiation of standards more strict than EPA standards.                     
                                                                               
  Number 589                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL believed REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG's statement was                   
  the intent of HB 436.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 592                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE pointed out the Healy project is a good example of                 
  having all the parties involved satisfied with the end                       
  result.  If the DEC was required to go to the legislature,                   
  there may be a significant impact because the issue of time                  
  may not be addressed.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 599                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if the Healy Clean Coal project                   
  had been in permitting process since 1988 or 1989.                           
                                                                               
  Number 603                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL responded that the project had been under the                    
  design phases since then; however, the DEC received a permit                 
  issue one and one-half to two years ago and the permit was                   
  issued in the March of 1993.  The permit decision was                        
  appealed by the Parks Service, a settlement was found, and                   
  the process is in the final stages of a permit change now.                   
  The facility was lawful to build since March 1993.  Usually                  
  a large process takes several years to complete the detailed                 
  engineering design and one to two years to complete the                      
  permitting design, depending upon the particular nature of                   
  the plant's emission and where it is located.                                
                                                                               
  Number 616                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY clarified it has been legal to build                    
  the Healy project since March 1993.  He had the impression                   
  from sources at Usibelli Coal that they could start the                      
  project, but they knew they would get shut down.  He also                    
  understood they did not believe they had a permit until very                 
  recently.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 622                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. CHAPPEL stated that once the permit is issued it is                      
  fully lawful to build the project.  There is a 30 day time                   
  limit, after the permit is issued, so anyone can request an                  
  adjudicatory hearing on that permit.  There was a request                    
  submitted by the Park Service and another public interest                    
  group inside Alaska.  The project applicants were reluctant                  
  to build the plant until the appeal was resolved.  He noted                  
  there was not an action preventing the partners in the                       
  project from beginning construction.  In December 1993 the                   
  Park Service entered into an agreement, found fair by the                    
  DEC, with the project applicants and the DEC is now                          
  incorporating that into the permit.  The permit should                       
  probably be out next month, although the public interest                     
  group has not yet released their appeal and the DEC is                       
  working on it.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 644                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY felt he was technically correct, but                    
  asked him if he would put $200 million into a project under                  
  such litigation.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 646                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE responded, "Certainly not."  The risk of having                    
  the permit challenged in court and having it reversed would                  
  be a strong deterrent.  Once construction has begun,                         
  however, the departments and agencies signing onto the                       
  permits become "permit defenders" as opposed to "permit                      
  issuers."  After the public interest group backs off the new                 
  permit, Healy and Golden Valley, he felt, will feel                          
  comfortable proceeding with the project.  MR. MENGE stated                   
  more than half of the Environmental Quality Division's                       
  efforts throughout the state are in the defense of existing                  
  permits.                                                                     
                                                                               
  (REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS returned to the meeting at 9:27 a.m.                 
  from another committee commitment.)                                          
                                                                               
  Number 667                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he has heard the misconception                     
  that projects are legal to start many times, and they are,                   
  if one wants unduly to risk everything put into it.                          
                                                                               
  Number 672                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. MENGE noted REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY's statement as a very                   
  crucial point and stated the DEC's records for water and air                 
  permits throughout the state is with the permittee and the                   
  outside groups to resolve the issues and allow the company                   
  to proceed forward.  He felt more than half his job was in                   
  permit defense.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 677                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE-CHAIRMAN KOTT noted the times REPRESENTATIVE ULMER                      
  departed and REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS rejoined the committee.                  
                                                                               
  Number 684                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY moved that HB 436 be passed from                        
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 685                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE-CHAIRMAN KOTT recognized the motion.  Hearing no                        
  objection, HB 436 passed from the House State Affairs                        
  Committee with individual recommendations.                                   
                                                                               
  Seeing no more business before the committee, VICE-CHAIRMAN                  
  KOTT adjourned the meeting at 9:32 a.m.                                      

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