Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/27/1993 08:00 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
             HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE                            
                         March 27, 1993                                        
                            8:00 a.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Representative Al Vezey, Chairman                                            
  Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman                                      
  Representative Harley Olberg                                                 
  Representative Jerry Sanders                                                 
  Representative Gary Davis                                                    
  Representative Fran Ulmer                                                    
  Representative Bettye Davis                                                  
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                  
  Representative Gene Therriault                                               
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HB 148    "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from                    
            the administrative adjudication provisions of the                  
            Administrative Procedure Act; and providing for an                 
            effective date."                                                   
  HB 228    "An Act relating to publications produced by state                 
            agencies and to the procurement of property,                       
            property interests, and services, including the                    
            services of employees, by certain public                           
            HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION                        
  SB 49     "An Act relating to preelection reports; closing                   
            the two-day reporting gap in those reports;                        
            setting the date of February 15 for filing year-                   
            end campaign finance reports; and requiring                        
            reporting of zero year-end reports."                               
            HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION                        
  HCR 8     Proposing amendments to the Uniform Rules of the                   
            Alaska State Legislature relating to notice of                     
            committee meetings and action by committees; and                   
            providing for an effective date.                                   
            HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION                        
  CONFIRMATION HEARING:                                                        
            Promotion of Colonel Sigurd E. Murphy to Brigadier                 
            General; and to Assistant Adjutant General, Alaska                 
            National Guard.                                                    
            UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED FOR CONFIRMATION                           
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  Tim Sullivan, Legislative Aide                                               
    to Senator Tim Kelly                                                       
  State Capitol, Room 101                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                        
  Position Statement: Delivered Sponsor Statement, SB 49                       
  Colonel Sigurd E. Murphy                                                     
  Alaska District Court                                                        
  941 W. 4th Avenue                                                            
  Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                     
  Position Statement: Testified on nomination                                  
  Brooke Miles                                                                 
  Alaska Public Offices Commission                                             
  211 4th Street, Room 114                                                     
  Juneau, Alaska  99811-0222                                                   
  Position Statement: Provided information on SB 49                            
  Wendy Redman, Vice President                                                 
    for University Relations                                                   
  University of Alaska                                                         
  910 Yukon Drive                                                              
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99775-5560                                                
  Position Statement: Supported HB 148                                         
  Lois Foster                                                                  
  738 Forest Park Drive                                                        
  Ketchikan, Alaska  99901                                                     
  Position Statement: Opposed HB 148                                           
  Art Bukowski                                                                 
  10075 Grover Drive                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska  99516                                                     
  Position Statement:  Opposed HB 148                                          
  Lawrence Weiss                                                               
  5862 Kenny Hill Drive                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska  99504                                                     
  Position Statement: Opposed HB 148                                           
  Representative Gene Therriault                                               
  State Capitol, Room 421                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Position Statement: Prime Sponsor, HB 148                                    
  Peggy Thomas                                                                 
  9701 Brian Drive                                                             
  Anchorage, Alaska  99516                                                     
  Position Statement: Supported HB 228                                         
  Dave Choquette                                                               
  3540 Amber Bay Loop                                                          
  Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                     
  Position Statement: Supported HB 228                                         
  Dave Harding, Legislative Aide                                               
    to Representative Eileen MacLean                                           
  State Capitol, Room 506                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Position Statement: Supported HB 228                                         
  Dugan Petty, Director                                                        
  General Services                                                             
  Department of Administration                                                 
  State Office Building                                                        
  P.O. Box C                                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                        
  Position Statement: Suggested changes to HB 228                              
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
  State Capitol                                                                
  Court Building, Room 608                                                     
  Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                        
  Position Statement: Prime Sponsor, HCR 8                                     
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 148                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA PROCEDURES                             
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Davies                            
  TITLE: "An Act exempting the University of Alaska from the                   
  administrative adjudication provisions of the Administrative                 
  Procedure Act; and providing for an effective date."                         
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/11/93       322    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/11/93       322    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, HES, JUDICIARY                    
  03/20/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/20/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/27/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  BILL:  HB 228                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  STATE PROCUREMENTS                                             
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  TITLE: "An Act relating to publications produced by state                    
  agencies and to the procurement of property, property                        
  interests, and services, including the services of                           
  employees, by certain public entities."                                      
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  03/15/93       648    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/15/93       648    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  03/20/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/27/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  BILL:  SB 49                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  YEAR-END CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS                              
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   SENATOR(S) KELLY,Donley,Kerttula,Pearce,Taylor                 
  TITLE: "An Act relating to preelection reports; closing the                  
  two-day reporting gap in those reports; setting the date of                  
  February 15 for filing year-end campaign finance reports;                    
  and requiring reporting of zero year-end reports."                           
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/19/93        91    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/19/93        91    (S)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,                        
  01/29/93              (S)   STA AT 09:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM                   
  01/29/93              (S)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/01/93       202    (S)   STA RPT  2DP 1NR                                 
  02/01/93       202    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (ADM)                           
  02/17/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/17/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  02/19/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/19/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  02/22/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/22/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  02/24/93       460    (S)   JUD RPT   4DP 1NR                                
  02/24/93       460    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (ADM)                           
  03/01/93       538    (S)   FIN RPT   4DP 1NR                                
  03/01/93       538    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (ADM)                           
  03/01/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                   
  03/04/93              (S)   RLS AT 03:00 PM                                  
  03/04/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  03/12/93       768    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  3/12/93                       
  03/12/93       775    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  03/12/93       775    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                   
  03/12/93       775    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  SB 49                       
  03/12/93       775    (S)   COSPONSOR(S): KERTTULA, PEARCE,                  
  03/12/93       775    (S)   PASSED Y19 N- E1                                 
  03/12/93       786    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  03/15/93       642    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/15/93       643    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                           
  03/27/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  BILL:  HCR 8                                                                 
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) NORDLUND,Olberg,Navarre,                     
  TITLE: Proposing amendments to the Uniform Rules of the                      
  Alaska State Legislature relating to notice of committee                     
  meetings and action by committees; and providing for an                      
  effective date.                                                              
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/19/93       390    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/19/93       390    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY                         
  03/20/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/20/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/27/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-34, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 004                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN AL VEZEY called the House State Affairs Committee                   
  to order at 8:05 a.m., on March 27, 1993.  Members present                   
  were Representatives Kott, Olberg, G. Davis, Ulmer and                       
  Sanders, representing a quorum.  Also in attendance were                     
  Representatives Gene Therriault and Jim Nordlund.                            
  SB 49:  YEAR-END CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS                                    
  Number 020                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY announced he would hold the confirmation                      
  hearing on Colonel Sigurd E. Murphy when Col. Murphy checked                 
  into the teleconference network.  He then read the title to                  
  SB 49 and called for a sponsor statement on it.                              
  Number 051                                                                   
  SPONSOR OF SB 49, explained how SB 49 makes several changes                  
  in the current campaign reporting law, most notably closing                  
  the two day gap between the seven day pre-election reporting                 
  period and the 24 hour reports.  Senate Bill 49 also changes                 
  the deadline for year-end reports from December 31 of a                      
  campaign year to February 15 of the following year.  He                      
  noted this would allow candidates, parties, and political                    
  action committees to use December bank statements in their                   
  reports.  He also stated this could cut down on the number                   
  of fines issued by the Alaska Public Offices Commission.                     
  Number 098                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER noted SB 49 had already passed the                 
  Number 106                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted Col. Murphy had joined the                              
  teleconference net and suspended debate on SB 49.  He then                   
  called on Col. Murphy to give any statement he wished to                     
  Number 123                                                                   
  GENERAL, ALASKA NATIONAL GUARD testified by teleconference                   
  from Anchorage, and told the committee his participation in                  
  the Guard was an extension of the work he had previously                     
  done.  He noted his work with the needy in founding the                      
  Brother Francis Shelter in Anchorage, and said the Guard's                   
  mission of protecting the property and lives of Alaskans led                 
  him to the service.  He stated his Guard duty had led him to                 
  almost every village and small town in the state, and he                     
  would like to continue his work in ending alcohol and drug                   
  use among Native youth as part of the Assistant Adjutant                     
  General's office.                                                            
  Number 201                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY thanked Col. Murphy for his comments and                      
  solicited questions from the committee.  Seeing none, he                     
  called a five minute at ease to allow General Mitch Aboud to                 
  call into the teleconference net.  He also noted the late                    
  arrival of Representative Bettye Davis.                                      
  Number 259                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY called the committee back to order at 8:19                    
  a.m., explaining that the teleconference operator told him                   
  General Aboud was having trouble making a connection.                        
  Chairman Vezey then elected to return to testimony on SB 49.                 
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked why the Campaign Disclosure Act had not                 
  been amended in more than ten years.                                         
  Number 267                                                                   
  stated many legislators did not want to open the entire                      
  statute up to amend such a small area, but the amendment was                 
  Number 279                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked what the motivation for such a narrowly                 
  drawn bill as SB 49 would be.                                                
  Number 283                                                                   
  MS. MILES stated SB 49 is a non-controversial "housekeeping"                 
  bill that would not fall under the label of campaign finance                 
  reform.  She stated the intent of SB 49 was simply to close                  
  the two day window previously stated by the bill's sponsor,                  
  Senator Kelly, and the other provision setting February 15                   
  as the year end reporting day would eliminate several                        
  needless actions by the APOC.  She also stated the APOC                      
  would be charged with mailing out delinquency forms to                       
  groups who had not filed their reports in time.                              
  Number 308                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if mailing those delinquency reports                    
  would not have a fiscal impact on the APOC.                                  
  Number 320                                                                   
  MS. MILES stated it would cost staff time and money to send                  
  the reports, but that figure would be mitigated by the                       
  amount of time not spent on arbitrating fines that had been                  
  appealed under the old system.                                               
  Number 328                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY didn't know why a simple misdemeanor fine                     
  wasn't applied to such violations.  He stated it might be in                 
  the legislature's interest to also tie campaign finance                      
  violations to the dollar amounts in violation as opposed to                  
  the time period, as is done now.                                             
  Number 360                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER perceived the chairman was concerned                    
  with SB 49, and suggested a subcommittee might be formed to                  
  look at SB 49 in more detail.                                                
  Number 367                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY felt the statute being modified by SB 49, AS                  
  15.13, is in need of repair.  He stated SB 49 should be                      
  considered a major bill, and asked committee members to take                 
  a long look at it before it was scheduled again.  He then                    
  deferred action on SB 49.                                                    
  HB 148:  EXEMPT U OF AK FROM APA PROCEDURES                                  
  Number 390                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY read the title to HB 148 and noted he was                     
  glad he deferred to Representative Olberg's objection to                     
  pass a previous CS (committee substitute) from committee                     
  without seeing it in final form.  He stated the effective                    
  date proposed by Representative Ulmer gave two outside                       
  entities the right to veto legislation by the body, and                      
  urged members not to pass it.                                                
  Number 408                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated CSHB 148 (STA) was not breaking                  
  new ground, and the legislature had made previous law based                  
  on conditions of acceptance by other parties.  She noted                     
  both groups referred to by Chairman Vezey wanted HB 148                      
  passed, and it was unlikely they would "veto" the                            
  Number 423                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated in any case, it was not right for                      
  legislators to give up the right for legislation to take                     
  Number 427                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER replied both parties, especially                        
  university employees, wanted HB 148 passed, and the                          
  University regents had also supported passage.                               
  Number 438                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG stated if both parties wanted                   
  HB 148, then the original bill should suffice without a                      
  complicating CS being introduced.                                            
  Number 445                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY then began taking public testimony.                           
  Number 450                                                                   
  UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA, reiterated the University's support                    
  for HB 148, and told the committee the University would go                   
  along with either version of the bill they passed.                           
  Number 455                                                                   
  LOIS FOSTER, A UNIVERSITY EMPLOYEE, testified by                             
  teleconference from Ketchikan in opposition to HB 148.  She                  
  stated employees would never be comfortable with the                         
  grievance procedure the University said it would go along                    
  with if the APA's (Administrative Procedure Act) procedures                  
  were exempted.  She stated it was only after the University                  
  had been sued in court that it granted employees the right                   
  to outside arbitration of grievances, and she feared that                    
  would end.                                                                   
  Number 483                                                                   
  by teleconference from Anchorage in opposition to HB 148,                    
  saying the committee should look at previous testimony on HB
  148-styled bills from the 17th Legislature, in which                         
  employees opposed ending the APA coverage.  He stated the                    
  procedures the University advocated are not adequate, and                    
  recommended the committee look at guidelines drawn up by the                 
  American Association of University Professors.                               
  Number 546                                                                   
  ANCHORAGE, testified by teleconference from Anchorage in                     
  opposition to HB 148, saying faculty members opposed HB 148                  
  because it would end their right to a fair hearing in front                  
  of an outside, impartial arbitrator.  He also charged                        
  "arbitrary and capricious" decisions by the administration                   
  would be allowed to stand without the APA, and reminded the                  
  committee of the Odum case.                                                  
  Number 611                                                                   
  MS. REDMAN stated the University understood employees'                       
  concerns, and reassured the committee CSHB 148 (STA) is not                  
  necessary, but the University would not oppose it.                           
  Number 613                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated he had looked at the APA procedures                    
  and decided it did not apply to personnel policy decisions,                  
  but rather to actions taken with respect to boards and                       
  commissions.  He stressed his opposition to CSHB 148 (STA)                   
  and urged members not to adopt it.                                           
  Number 636                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER noted the arrival of HB 148's sponsor,                  
  Representative Gene Therriault, and asked if he might have a                 
  Number 639                                                                   
  not oppose the change in the effective date under CSHB 148                   
  (STA).  He stated Chairman Vezey's interpretation of the APA                 
  is correct, in that it is designed to arbitrate disputes                     
  between boards and commissions with respect to business or                   
  professional licenses.  He noted the cost for a hearing                      
  officer under the APA averages $100 an hour, and stated                      
  university employees should feel comfortable because they                    
  will be allowed to draw up their own grievance procedures.                   
  Number 663                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG MOVED PASSAGE of HB 148.                               
  Number 665                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER REMINDED the committee IT HAD already                   
  ADOPTED CSHB 148 (STA).                                                      
  Number 668                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY agreed with Rep. Ulmer, and RULED the                         
  committee would have to either RESCIND or PASS CSHB 148                      
  Number 683                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG MOVED the committee RESCIND CSHB 148                   
  REPRESENTATIVES ULMER and Bettye Davis OBJECTED.                             
  Number 686                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS agreed to CSHB 148 (STA) because                   
  he saw no conflict in addressing the concerns of both the                    
  University and its employees.                                                
  Number 698                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG objected to giving two groups the                      
  power to effectively veto any act of the legislature.                        
  TAPE 93-34, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 004                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY opposed CSHB 148 (STA) because he knew of no                  
  other employer who would not have adequate grievance                         
  procedures in place, because they would otherwise expose                     
  themselves to protest by labor organizations or in court.                    
  He restated his opposition to allowing two groups veto power                 
  over legislation.                                                            
  Number 033                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated placing conditions on                            
  legislation becoming effective had been done before, and                     
  CSHB 148 (STA) simply eliminated the gap between passage and                 
  the creation of new grievance procedures.                                    
  Number 070                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY said he would entertain a motion to rescind                   
  the CSHB 148 (STA).                                                          
  Number 083                                                                   
  Number 115                                                                   
  CSHB 148 (STA) was RESCINDED by a 4-3 vote, with                             
  Representatives Vezey, Kott, Olberg and Sanders voting YES;                  
  and, Representatives B. Davis, Ulmer and G. Davis voting NO.                 
  Number 128                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG MOVED PASSAGE of HB 148.                               
  Number 141                                                                   
  HB 148 PASSED from committee by a 6-1 vote.  Representative                  
  B. Davis voted NO.                                                           
  HB 228:  STATE PROCUREMENTS                                                  
  Number 155                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY read the title to HB 228 and invited                          
  testimony on it.                                                             
  Number 161                                                                   
  CONSULTANT testified by teleconference from Anchorage in                     
  support of HB 228.  She stated trying to improve Alaska's                    
  economy by tightening procurement procedures is a good idea,                 
  but HB 228 needs more work.  She stated the findings in                      
  Section one may not be accurate and urged a longer look at                   
  them.  She also noted problems with the procurement                          
  sections, saying that without a solid manufacturing base in                  
  Alaska, even if the state buys from an inside company, the                   
  buy is most likely going to an outsider eventually.                          
  MS. THOMAS stated HB 228 may actually favor outside                          
  companies because they know of the preference given Alaska                   
  companies and can effectively raise their prices above what                  
  another state may pay.  She stated the real answer to making                 
  more effective procurement is to increase the competence of                  
  our procurement officers.                                                    
  Number 370                                                                   
  DAVE CHOQUETTE, A FORMER MEMBER OF THE HOUSE, testified by                   
  teleconference from Anchorage in favor of HB 228, even                       
  though he tried for two years to keep procurement out of a                   
  similar bill he had introduced.  He stated administrative                    
  charges required to be reported under HB 228 could be                        
  regulated without statute, by forging a partnership between                  
  the public and private sector.  He stated the original goal                  
  was to increase the public awareness of the need to buy                      
  Alaskan, and urged members not to allow the procurement                      
  sections of the bill to remain.                                              
  Number 424                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked if Mr. Choquette had seen HB 228,                 
  and if so, did he have any suggestions for changes.                          
  Number 430                                                                   
  MR. CHOQUETTE replied he had seen HB 228, and stated there                   
  were several areas of improvement needed.  He specifically                   
  noted the University of Alaska as a big offender in out-of-                  
  state procurements, as well as the Permanent Fund Board.  He                 
  stated the Permanent Fund Booklet was designed so that only                  
  an out-of-state printer could work on the project.                           
  Number 465                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if Mr. Choquette could cite specific                    
  sections that needed changes.                                                
  Number 471                                                                   
  MR. CHOQUETTE had no specific section in mind, but suggested                 
  members look into a bonus program that had been discussed in                 
  the House previously.                                                        
  Number 488                                                                   
  MACLEAN, testified in favor of HB 228.  He stated HB 228                     
  mirrors the previous procurement bill introduced and passed                  
  by the House, and through all committees in the Senate                       
  during the 17th Alaska State Legislature.  He stated HB 228                  
  focused primarily on service providers and echoed Mr.                        
  Choquette's recommendation that members look at a bonus                      
  Number 517                                                                   
  DUGAN PETTY, DIRECTOR OF GENERAL SERVICES, testified the                     
  administration was in favor of supporting Alaska vendors and                 
  building administrative procedures to help them.  He stated                  
  some streamlining of the procurement procedures is needed                    
  under HB 228's guidelines.  He cited a section of HB 228                     
  that requires procurement officers to build in                               
  administrative costs of a project in the bid.  He stated                     
  that was impractical in some smaller projects that might                     
  only involve a couple of long distance phone calls, and                      
  stated a threshold to require such a build-in should be                      
  written into HB 228.  He stated such costs could be built                    
  into the invitations to bid that go to service providers,                    
  and then figured into the preference points for local                        
  Number 550                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the procurement procedures included                  
  a preference code for instate vendors.                                       
  MR. PETTY replied in the affirmative, and added they could                   
  account for up to ten percent of costs in an invitation to                   
  bid, which is how an Alaska vendor could benefit from                        
  administrative costs being factored in an invitation to bid.                 
  Number 567                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked if the intent was to factor in the                      
  possibility of lawsuits in the administrative costs.                         
  Number 584                                                                   
  MR. PETTY stated it was not, that the administration did not                 
  anticipate legal costs on any project.  He stated the costs                  
  he would like to see under a threshold system for                            
  procurements would be small, one-time costs like a limited                   
  number of long distance phone calls or site visits.                          
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked for a couple of examples of                      
  small administrative costs.                                                  
  Number 601                                                                   
  MR. PETTY stated looking at an out-of-state print job or at                  
  fire/rescue vehicles before taking delivery.                                 
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY interpreted that to mean anytime the state                    
  bought products that either are expensive or expensive to                    
  Number 615                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS knew of no printing job that                    
  required anyone to examine a job on the print shop floor.                    
  He noted a site visit would have little effect on keeping                    
  out-of-state printers from doing state business, since                       
  printers here must charge about 35% more, and on a ten                       
  thousand dollar print job, any out-of-state vendor could                     
  easily build in the cost of a plane ticket to check the job.                 
  Number 628                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG saw no reason for a floor visit                        
  Number 633                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS stated it was a good excuse for a                     
  Lower 48 vacation.                                                           
  MR. PETTY only knew of one time that a print job needed to                   
  be reviewed out-of-state, and that was a rush job.  He                       
  stated most print jobs are looked at and administered by                     
  phone.  He went on to detail how section seven of HB 228                     
  needed to be amended to become a more permissive part of the                 
  law.  He stated if the law was inflexible, it would fragment                 
  state procurement policies.  He also stated section eight                    
  should be amended to include sealed bid jobs as well, which                  
  it did not appear to do as written.                                          
  Number 682                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY understood HB 228 did not include school                      
  districts, and asked why school districts are not allowed to                 
  give local preferences.                                                      
  Number 688                                                                   
  MR. PETTY noted it was true school districts could not                       
  include a local preference, and suggested they be mandated                   
  as well.                                                                     
  Number 694                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if they were prohibited.                         
  Number 697                                                                   
  MR. PETTY said they were, unless a school project used                       
  general fund money.                                                          
  Number 699                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY stated it might be a good idea to allow                       
  school districts to do so, with some exceptions, like                        
  limited and sole source bids.                                                
  TAPE 93-35, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  MR. PETTY agreed, stating the school procurement policy                      
  should be more permissive.                                                   
  Number 028                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY thought it might be best to defer action on                   
  HB 228, given the complexity of the bill.  He stated it                      
  would be a mistake to move on the bill despite its history                   
  in the previous legislature.                                                 
  Number 056                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BETTYE DAVIS asked when HB 228 would be heard                 
  Number 070                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY said the committee might hear HB 228 on                       
  Tuesday, March 30, and definitely by Saturday, April 3,                      
  Number 077                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY then returned to the confirmation of Colonel                  
  Sigurd E. Murphy and announced problems with the                             
  teleconference call from General Mitch Aboud would prevent                   
  him from testifying.  He then stated he would entertain a                    
  motion on Col. Murphy's nomination.                                          
  Number 085                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS MOVED the nomination of Col. Murphy.                 
  Number 093                                                                   
  The nomination of Colonel Murphy WAS RECOMMENDED for                         
  confirmation by a 6-0 vote.                                                  
  HCR 8:  COMMITTEE MEETINGS: NOTICE AND ACTION                                
  Number 141                                                                   
  restated his reasoning for introducing the resolution.  He                   
  stated HCR 8 is designed to clarify how bills are introduced                 
  and then acted upon in committees.  He stated the resolution                 
  would eliminate the confusion over jurisdiction of the five                  
  day and Thursday reporting rules by eliminating the five day                 
  rule.  He stated under the current system, the five day rule                 
  could be suspended, while the Thursday rule could not, and                   
  that is where the confusion appears to be starting.                          
  Number 224                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG stated he could eliminate all the                      
  confusion over when a bill might fall under the five day                     
  rule, but not the Thursday reporting rule.  He stated the                    
  easy way to end the confusion was to eliminate Saturday                      
  meetings.  Committee members and staff cheered the                           
  suggestion.  The committee chair did not.                                    
  Number 242                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY believed there was a need to clarify when a                   
  legislative week starts, as well as when a bill should be                    
  Number 272                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND chose Thursday as the deadline                       
  because it would give members a four day notice for Monday                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY asked why a five day "rolling" notice would                   
  not work.                                                                    
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND explained that would force the                       
  public and staff to check the schedule every day, as opposed                 
  to weekly.                                                                   
  Number 305                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG liked the clarification being made                     
  under HCR 8, and expressed his support for the resolution.                   
  Number 321                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY preferred to see the committee defer action                   
  on HCR 8 so he and others might work on some sections.  He                   
  preferred a Friday deadline notice.                                          
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND also wanted to see some changes                      
  made, specifically in reference to the wavier of the                         
  Thursday rule, which he said could be built into section one                 
  of HCR 8.                                                                    
  Number 372                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted the time of 10:07 a.m. and asked the                    
  committee if it wanted to continue.  Members indicated they                  
  Number 375                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND went on to explain section two of                    
  HCR 8 which not only allows full participation of                            
  representatives during a teleconference, but also allows                     
  committee members to sign a recommendation even if they did                  
  not attend the meeting.                                                      
  Number 414                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY was opposed to such a provision, because if                   
  it was made too easy for someone not to attend a meeting,                    
  they would not.   He also opposed allowing members to vote                   
  via teleconference, saying it would make it harder for                       
  committees to get a physical quorum in a room.                               
  Number 428                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND stated his intent to make it easier                  
  for members to get to their home districts while continuing                  
  their legislative work.  He said teleconference votes would                  
  make it far easier for rural members to do that.                             
  Number 447                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND then outlined section three of HCR
  8, saying he believed any legislation introduced by a                        
  committee should be done at the will of the majority of that                 
  committee.  He said the practice is generally being followed                 
  now, but that it should be put into the rules.                               
  Number 458                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted the time and suggested the committee                    
  defer action on HCR 8.                                                       
  Number 470                                                                   
  VICE CHAIR KOTT wanted to look closer at the provisions in                   
  section two of HCR 8.                                                        
  Number 500                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY had concerns over the requirement of a                        
  majority introducing bills.                                                  
  VICE CHAIR KOTT agreed.  He felt it ought to be the majority                 
  of a quorum, not the majority of the committee.  He stated                   
  such a standard could give the minority the ability to                       
  effectively shut a committee down.  He also felt HCR 8                       
  needed to be changed if it was to be passed by the Senate.                   
  CHAIRMAN VEZEY noted the time and adjourned the meeting at                   
  10:19 a.m.                                                                   

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