Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/28/1998 05:15 PM House RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 28, 1998
5:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Brian Porter
Representative William K.(Bill) Williams
Representative Kim Elton
Representative Irene Nicholia
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Al Vezey
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 458
"An Act relating to establishing a golf course alcoholic beverage
license to allow sales of beer and wine; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 458(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 269(L&C)
"An Act relating to the state plumbing code; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED HCSCSSB 269(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 458
SHORT TITLE: GOLF COURSE BEER/WINE LICENSE
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/18/98 2363 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
2/18/98 2363 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE
2/27/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
2/27/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
2/27/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
3/02/98 2471 (H) L&C RPT CS(L&C) 1DP 3NR
3/02/98 2472 (H) DP: ROKEBERG; NR: COWDERY, HUDSON,
RYAN
3/02/98 2472 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV)
4/28/98 (H) RLS AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: SB 269
SHORT TITLE: PLUMBING CODE
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/28/98 2335 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
1/28/98 2335 (S) LABOR & COMMERCE
3/03/98 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
3/03/98 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
3/04/98 2733 (S) L&C RPT CS 5DP SAME TITLE
3/04/98 2733 (S) DP:LEMAN, KELLY, MILLER, HOFFMAN,
MACKIE
3/04/98 2733 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS (LABOR)
3/05/98 (S) RLS AT 12:25 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
3/05/98 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
3/06/98 2769 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 3/6/98
3/06/98 2770 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
3/06/98 2770 (S) L&C CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
3/06/98 2770 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
3/06/98 2770 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 269(L&C)
3/06/98 2771 (S) PASSED Y15 N- E4 A1
3/06/98 2771 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
3/06/98 2775 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
3/09/98 2561 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
3/09/98 2561 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE
3/25/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
3/26/98 2748 (H) L&C RPT 3DP 3NR
3/26/98 2748 (H) DP: KUBINA, HUDSON, ROKEBERG;
3/26/98 2748 (H) NR: COWDERY, SANDERS, RYAN
3/26/98 2749 (H) SENATE ZERO FISCAL NOTE (LABOR)
3/4/98
4/28/98 (H) RLS AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4954
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented a proposed committee substitute for
HB 458.
SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Norman Rokeberg
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4954
POSITION STATEMENT: Assisted in presentation of the proposed
committee substitute for HB 458.
DON DAPCEVICH, Executive Director
Governor's Advisory Board on Alcoholism
and Drug Abuse
Box 110608
Juneau, Alaska 99801-0608
Telephone: (907) 465-4667
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against portions of CSHB 458(RLS)
except for the sunset provision of the
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (Sec. 5).
ANNETTE KRIETZER, Legislative Assistant
to Senator Loren Leman
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 113
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3844
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSSB 269(L&C) and the proposed House
Rules Committee Substitute.
RAY GILLESPIE
International Association of Plumbing
and Mechanical Officials
9478 Riverside Court
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-3375
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the proposed
CSSB 269(RLS).
DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Labor
P.O. Box 21149
Juneau, Alaska 99811
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the proposed CSSB 269(RLS).
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-9, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT called the House Rules Standing Committee
meeting to order at 5:15 p.m. Members present at the call to order
were Representatives Kott, Phillips, Porter, and Elton.
Representatives Williams arrived at 5:18 p.m., and Nicholia arrived
at 5:20 p.m.
HB 458 - GOLF COURSE BEER/WINE LICENSE
Number 010
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business would be HB
458, "An Act relating to establishing a golf course alcoholic
beverage license to allow sales of beer and wine; and providing for
an effective date," sponsored by the House Labor and Commerce
Committee by request. He noted there is a proposed committee
substitute, Version R.
Number 026
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER made a motion to adopt CSHB 458,
Version R. There being no objection, Version R was before the
committee.
Number 036
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG came forward to explain the
legislation. He referred to page 2, lines 21 and 22, after the
word "golf course," pointed out that the words "and a detailed
diagram that clearly identifies a proposed area that constitutes
the licensed premises" have been deleted.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 2, line 15 and said the
words "for consumption" have been deleted. He said, "What we want
to do is focus on the selling and not the consumption because of
the problems that revolve around the typical language in any kind
of a alcohol beverage license of any nature about designated area
or what the premises is. So the reason that's removed is about
that and I'll explain that as we get through this."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 2, lines 21 and 22, and
again stated after the word "golf course" the words "and a detailed
diagram that clearly identifies a proposed area that constitutes
the licensed premises" have been deleted. He said, "This is the
same problem here. The objective of the bill is not to define (a)
- the whole golf course and its boundaries as a licensed premise.
We do not wish to do that."
Number 107
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred the committee to page 3, line 1,
and said the words "motor vehicle" has been deleted and has been
replaced with "or a vending cart designed to carry beverages or
food located on the golf course."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated another addition is on page 4,
Section 5. It adds the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board's (ABC)
sunset date and changes it from 1998 to 2002, as recommended by
Legislative Budget and Audit (LBA) audits for sunsets of the
provision of the board.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 4, line 11, and said it
repeals the regulation for a municipal golf course license.
Number 142
SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman
Rokeberg, Alaska State Legislature, came before the committee. She
referred to Version R, page 2, line 20, subsection (2), "A license
may be issued only if the applicant does not hold a beverage
dispensary license or a restaurant or eating place license;" and
said the paragraph doesn't apply to an applicant who holds a
beverage dispensary license or a restaurant or eating place license
if the license was acquired by transfer from the licensee under AS
04.11.280. Ms. Armstrong stated that means if someone has bought
a beer and wine license or a beverage dispensary license on the
open market, and they currently hold one, if they want to have a
golf course license and they bought it that way, they can have
both. They don't have to sell their license. She informed the
committee that there are two golf courses that have beverage
dispensary licenses, which are more valuable than a golf course
license, and the likelihood that they would do that is probably not
high. Ms. Armstrong said, "On the same token, people who got their
beer and wine license directly from the ABC Board, and the ABC
Board does issue licenses, if they got one directly from the ABC
Board then they have to give it back to them in order to get the
golf course license and that's what that says. So the distinction
is being made from somebody who bought one and if they want to get
the golf course license, they can go ahead and sell their license
and keep the golf course license and that's how that works."
Number 180
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said Ms. Armstrong's analysis is correct,
but it doesn't fall in naturally in the understanding of the
legislation. He referred to page 2, line 20, and said he may ask
to delete the words "beverage dispensary licence" because it is
actually superfluous to the bill as it doesn't deal with beverage
dispensary licenses.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said, "I am prepared to explain the
legislation to the committee so they understand the bill ... Thank
you Mr. Chairman, I have gone through -- and the supporting
information for the committee substitute for the bill is outlined
of the rationale behind this legislation. Number one, this
particular legislation would affect only a championship style
course which is defined in the bill as being at a minimum of nine
holes and 2,950 yards. It does not mean a small chip and putt type
course or anything else. I call it a championship style course
because it has to have at least that minimum yardage, which would
actually preclude a number of small courses in the state of Alaska
right now. The idea here is to encourage the development of golf
course licenses as a tourist amenity and as a benefit to the
recreation activities of a community and help enhance these tourist
activities. It also streamlines the ability of the ABC Board to
issue these licenses by repealing the existing municipal golf
course license in regulation. And then it eliminates the use of a
recreational events type license which is the one -- the type of
license used by the Birch Ridge Golf Course in Soldotna currently.
Some of the complaints about the bill is that this is just another
way to get a liquor license in the hands of people that sell
alcoholic beverages. Mr. Chairman, point in fact, the reason I got
involved in this bill was because the Palmer Municipal Golf Course
asked me to work on this. I'm familiar with the folks up there.
They have the only municipal golf course license issued in the
state. And there is attached to - in your bill package this
listing of all the golf courses and the types of licenses and where
they got them - that's been provided by the ABC Board for the bill
package and the legislature. And there is only really seven golf
courses affected by this legislation currently. That does not mean
to say that there couldn't be the development of additional golf
courses in the future that could apply for this license. Going
back to the control issue ... Mr. Chairman, the fact is that the
Palmer Golf Course, now, because they have a municipal license,
cannot sell a beer out the door. In other words, you can't buy a
bottle of beer in the clubhouse under this license and walk across
the threshold. They cannot sell any alcoholic beverages on the
golf course. They're restricted to the licensed premises as
defined by the boundaries of the building. So what happens now
that particular golf course allows the players to come on the
course and bring their own alcoholic beverages. They have no
control over the amount and the consumption on the course because
they can't control the sales of it. If the had the ability, under
the licensing law, to sell the beer on the course or out the
threshold or out the door, then they could have much better control
to monitor what's going on there. So I think it's a very positive
bill in terms of its ability to foster better control of alcoholic
beverages."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued, "Additionally, Mr. Chairman,
this bill provides that -- and it's why we had to be really very
particular about how we drafted this legislation because what this
bill does for the first time allows the sale of alcoholic
beverages, but only beer and wine, on the golf course if it's
dispensed from a vending cart or a golf cart. Mr. Chairman, you
and I share, I know, one love in life besides our wives and that's
playing golf, so does the Majority Leader. And we know that every
golf course we've been to in the United States and the South 48 has
a cart running around where you can buy a beer off of it. Alaska
may be unique in the sense it's the only state in the union you
can't do that because of the licensing laws. It's ludicrous. What
happens on many courses now to allow them to sell any kind of
alcoholic beverages over the threshold is it would have to have a
package store liquor license. And if you would look at the list
that we have here, you'll see that that has occurred in a couple of
areas. As a matter of fact, the Anchorage Golf Course at O'Malley
has a beverage dispensary license, which doesn't come into play
here, but they also have a package store license, which was
purchased on the secondary market. So they paid money for it. And
that allows them to sell alcoholic beverages across the threshold.
Because it's a package store, they may sell higher proofed alcohol
and so forth, but they have to have it closed container. But still
it doesn't allow them to drive around on the golf course with a
cart because the licensed premise is the snack shop there. So
that's the problem with the way the Alaska alcoholic beverage laws
are designed. They don't provide for the flexibility of having
this golf cart drive around and sell you a Coors Light. The
problem becomes one of this - we all believe in, particularly all
the people in the golfing community, I know Representative Elton
also shares this passion, is that we want to be able to foster
youth golf and the young people to play the game - a great game in
this traditional game of golf because it instills discipline and
rules and so forth in the young folks. So then the conflict of the
argument becomes, 'How do we reconcile with that? Do we have young
people playing on the golf course where alcoholic beverages will be
dispensed in a moving cart that moves around and sells it?' The
point of fact, Mr. Chairman, this happens as you well know,
throughout the country; throughout the world. The fact of the
matter is when youngsters are golfing they're either with an adult
or supervision, which is required under Alaska law or they're in
foursomes or groups of young people that are all underage. And
they're basically separated by eight to ten minutes except when
they come up to sometimes the par 3 backup, there may be a little
comingling of people. But there is a separation just by the very
nature of a golf course. So any attempt to dissuade you in this
regard because there is problem with young people and having
alcohol in one area which can be a 100-acre golf course, for
example, I think is without foundation."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued to explain the legislation. He
said, "There is a number of charity tournaments, for example, the
Republican Party of Alaska, also a fund-raising tournament puts on
a major golf tournament, which I've seen the Speaker at and other
folks, giving away beer off of a golf cart at that tournament; my
eyes didn't deceive me. So it seems rather strange that you can
drive around on golf course and give a beer away. Why can't the
golf course be able to sell a beer? It just doesn't make sense.
But the problem becomes, Mr. Chairman, is that when you try to
demark (ph) or put a boundary -- if you made the whole golf course
the boundary then that's the licensed premise. Then you couldn't
have young people coming onto the course because they would be
restricted, they would have to be with an adult. We don't want
that so what we've come up with here is a unique drafting fix,
thanks to Mr. Ford, which allows the - actually the motorized carts
selling beverages and so forth - to be the licensed premise, if you
will, running around and being able to dispense this and sell this.
That's why we took 'consumption' out of that one line if you'll
recall now. We don't want to be involved in monitoring the
consumption. We want to be involved in monitoring the sale and
that's what this does. So instead of just giving it away, we're
going to sell it, and this will enhance the bottom line in the
ability for these golf courses to survive. And also, Mr. Chairman,
as you well know, as an Air Force veteran, the federal golf courses
in Anchorage and Fairbanks are under federal law. They are not
governed by Alaskan liquor statutes. So they have those carts and
they have snack shacks, they have everything all over the place -
all these wonderful amenities. They're the most popular golf
courses, which these other golf courses have to compete against."
Number 349
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated Alaska doesn't have an open
container law. It's legal to be able to drink a beer in public.
What the bill provides is that the clubhouse, snack shack or small
building that's designated, and the motorized cart can be a
licensed premise, but not the whole golf course. He said this is
kind of a unique fix to be able to overcome that, and it really
replicates the traditional means of sales of these beverages for
this type of activity.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said the licenses would be new standalone
licenses. The provision of the bill in Section 3 on page 3 exempts
the licenses from the population count. He said this is the whole
statutory head count for the numbers of licenses issued in an area.
He said, "This does not count against you in terms of a license in
an area, but in order not to allow a surplus of licenses, we came
up with the provision that was pointed out to you on page 2, line
20 through 23, which said this, 'If you purchased a license, a
restaurant license or a package license, on the open market and
paid money for it, you have the right to go out and resell that
license and apply for a new golf course license to replace it if
you so elect to do so. Or if you received from the ABC Board a
license without on the secondary market, you can trade it in and
there is no additional licenses.'"
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to information in the committee
file and said, "Selling the existing restaurant eating place
license, there is one in Kenai and one in Fairbanks that are just
beer and wine licenses. Those will be allowed to go back into the
(indisc.). And then there are two existing package store licenses,
one in Fairbanks and one in Anchorage. Those could go back into
the count. Of the eight licenses that are covered by this right
now, and four are granted by the ABC Board, would only be four
licenses going back into the account." He said that is a minimal
impact on the full member count. Representative Rokeberg said it
is possible that a club would want to keep those licenses because
if they kept the package store license, they could sell hard liquor
on the course. He stated, "This, I think, could be used for the
development of new golf courses in the state and that's why it is
supported by the Alaska Visitors Association, Aleyska Resort, and
all the golf courses that I mentioned in the backup information."
Number 432
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER referred to page 2, line 31, and asked if the
definition of "golf course" is consistent with what you said it
was.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that he thinks it is consistent.
He said you could have an 18 hole course with 2,950 yards because
it's an "or."
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he thought Representative Rokeberg said
"nine holes and 2,900..."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded, "It says 'or at least.'"
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said, "It says 'having at least nine holes,'
so you could have a nine hole course, 'or covering at least 2,950
yards,'. So you could have a nine hole chip and putt course with
a beer cart."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said it would have to be 2,950 yards.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested including the word "and."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he agrees.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to delete the word "or" from
line 31, page 2, and replace it with "and". There being no
objection, it was so ordered.
Number 457
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked if the license would preclude a
charity or nonprofit organization from giving away beer and wine in
a charity tournament.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that he doesn't think it would
preclude them as he believes it would be policy of the golf course.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked way the military golf courses aren't
included in the ABC laws. She asked if they are governed by
separate alcohol laws.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded, "It's the supremacy of our
federal constitution. We have some other case law on that, don't
we, going on?"
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated when she first saw the bill she did
have a problem with the golf courses that had already paid for a
more expensive license. She said she is happy with the current
version.
REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON referred to the words "for consumption"
being deleted on page 2, line 15. He asked if this means that as
he is going off the course, he can stop by the restaurant and pick
up a six pack of beer and take it home with him.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he would say no. That is not
the intent of the bill. He said the ABC Board is uniquely viewed
with regulatory power. If there are any problems in that regard,
in terms of enforcement, he believes that would be the case. He
said he believes the only way you could buy that beverage would be
as an open container and not a closed container. That is the
distinction between a package license and restaurant. He said this
is basically a restaurant eating place beer and wine license.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said the bill does say that a golf course
license authorizes the licensee to sell and serve beer and wine.
He said he could buy a bottle of wine or a six pack of beer or two
if he is not obligated to consume it on the premise.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he understands what
Representative Elton is saying, but that is not his intent.
Number 493
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said if the golf course currently has a
package license, you could do that anyway. There would be nothing
to prohibit that from occurring.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said a club could have a beverage
dispensary license, a package license, and a golf course licence.
Fundamentally, the bill allows for beer and wine sales inside
their clubhouse, at the snack shack and off the cart. If you
wanted have hard liquor sales, you would have to have a package
license to go off. If you wanted to have a full service restaurant
with liquor sales, you would have to have a beverage dispensary
license.
Number 507
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "I guess the reason I asked the question
is I guess I don't a have a problem as long as it is consumed
there, but if this is the kind of license they get for $400
biannually and then you can sell a six pack and take business away
from somebody that has paid for a package license - I do have a
problem. Another, I guess, a concern more than a question ... I
need to be convinced I guess on why exempt from the population
count. Now I do go to golf courses. I sometimes go to golf
courses to have a meal and drink a beer, have some wine with
dinner. That place is competing with other places down the road.
I mean if you exempt these licenses from the population count, I
mean, what you're essentially doing is you're adding competition to
that place that's down the road. And you're adding a cheap
competition because they don't have to pay for a restaurant beer
and wine license."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded the golf course restaurant is
paying the same amount that a restaurant pays for a beer and wine
license, $400 a year. He informed the committee that a problem in
Palmer was that there wasn't package store licenses available in
the count. They would have liked to have bought one, but they
can't. If one becomes available, then it's maybe worth a lot of
money on the secondary market. He referred to the city of Juneau
talking about building a golf course for years. The fact that they
would be able to get a license like this without making a major
investment would help to enhance it and that should be a reward for
building an amenity.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said that logic can be extended to almost any
other facility that brings economic development. He said he isn't
sure that it is consistent to extend it to one type of business
without extending it to other types of businesses.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON said, "The other thing that bothers me about
this is that the way I read this bill is that you can have a
vending cart pull up, sell a beer to half a foursome but maybe not
the other half of the foursome because they might be youth. And I
mean, we don't allow that to happen in a pub where you can bring in
youths and serve."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that a child can go into a bar
with their parent.
Number 564
DON DAPCEVICH, Executive Director, Governor's Advisory Board on
Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, came before the committee. He informed
the committee that in February the board took up this legislation
and asked him to come before the committee to speak against it. He
referred to the issue of public policy and alcohol consumption and
stated every time an issue comes up we find a new way to expand the
number of beverage licenses in Alaska. As a consequence, currently
in order to support the actual number of beverage dispensary
licenses that we have in the state, we would have to have a
population of 1,575,000 to support existing licenses. Now there is
going to be a new way to get licenses on the market. As a
consequence, there will be a release of four licenses into the
current mix that they could trade in for a new cheaper license.
This is just a case of avoiding the law. It's the cost of doing
business. If you build a bar, you build in the cost of buying the
license. If you build a golf course, you build in the cost of
buying a license as they do in other states. Mr. Dapcevich said
the process isn't broken. It is just a matter of a community
sitting out that has four times as many licenses now as the law
allows and they would have to buy a package store license rather
than simply getting one by population. So we fix it by passing a
law that expands the number of licenses that are available. He
said, "We have a problem in this state with drinking and I think
everyone of you, at some time as a legislator, has dealt with
issues involving public policy and asking the question, 'Why aren't
we doing better with prevention?' We're not doing better with
prevention because every street corner in Alaska has a beverage
dispensary license and you're just entertaining the law to do some
more.
MR. DAPCEVICH said you can take your own child into a bar, but you
can't take somebody else's child into a bar. You can have your own
child on the golf cart when you're drinking, but he doesn't think
you could have somebody else's child. He said in that respect, the
board is opposed to the bill, but they aren't opposed to the
portion of the bill that deals with the sunset of the ABC Board as
they very much want to see the board extended and the enforcement
that that board provides, extended.
CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated there were no further witnesses to testify
and closed the public hearing.
Number 613
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS said in the committee file is a letter from
the Alaska Cabaret, Hotel, Restaurant and Retailers (CHARR)
Association, dated April 17, where they state that allowing
changing for or with the exception of changing the motor vehicle to
a vending machine, they do support the bill.
Number 617
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he does understand the testimony of Mr.
Dapcevich and recognizes that to a certain degree we are a bit
hypocritical in our licensing laws and ways of expanding them. At
the same time, we have certainly in the last month recognized a
need for (indisc.) efforts at diversification of revenue. Tourism
is one and (indisc.) fall in that category. There is, just like in
a hotel, an expectation of a certain amount amenities on a golf
course that would generate any sort of tourist or local event.
Representative Porter said he plays a lot of golf and he doesn't
have any qualms that this type of license is going to be a
contributor to the major problems of alcoholism that Alaska has.
Number 635
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move CSHB 458, as amended,
with individual recommendations and with the attached fiscal notes
out of committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON objected. He stated he doesn't disagree with
what Representative Porter has said, but he would like to note that
there is nothing that currently precludes a golf course from going
after an existing type of license. Representative Elton said he is
also bothered by the fact that they don't know if taking
"consumption" out precludes somebody from buying a six pack and
taking it on the road with them as they leave the golf course. If
we use the logic that has been expressed that this benefits
tourism, he doesn't disagree with that but river rafting benefits
tourism too. Should we sell a beer to somebody at the end of a
river raft? He stated using that logic opens the door.
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked for a roll call vote. Representatives
Nicholia, Phillips, Porter, Kott and Williams voted in favor moving
the bill. Representative Elton voted against moving the bill. So
CSHB 458(RLS) moved out of the House Rules Standing Committee.
TAPE 98-9, SIDE B
Number 001
CHAIRMAN KOTT called for an at-ease at 5:58 p.m. He called the
meeting back to order at 6:03 p.m.
CSSB 269(L&C) - PLUMBING CODE
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business would be CSSB
269(L&C), "An Act relating to the state plumbing code; and
providing for an effective date," sponsored by the Senate Labor and
Commerce Committee. He said there is a proposed committee
substitute, Version B, Bannister, dated 4/24/98.
Number 008
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt the proposed committee
substitute, Version B. There being no objection, Version B was
before the Committee.
ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman,
came before the committee to explain the legislation. She
explained SB 269 allows the Department of Labor to automatically
adopt, through the regulatory process, the latest published version
of the plumbing code. She stated, "Throughout the hearing process
of this bill, all of the people who are involved in the trade have
had the opportunity to look at it, but it wasn't until after it
moved out of the Senate Labor and Commerce Committee and through
several other committees that we were questioned as to why Appendix
L had been left off of the list of appendices that are adopted by
the department ... Appendix L has to do with alternate plumbing
systems and we had several engineers look at Appendix L and ask
them and ask the Professional Design Council and others to review
the bill and see if there is anything that they would suggest to
add to it. But it took a long time to develop that consensus. The
short story is that now the professional and the engineers have
come back and said they would prefer to have Appendix L back in the
bill. And so that's the one change in this committee substitute,
page 1, line 11, where it says, 'and the appendices A through L of
the 1997 edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code'. Department of
Labor will give you their opinion on it, but what I understand is
that they are in agreement with that change. The second change in
the committee substitute in on lines 5, 6 and 7, where the
department is allowed to adopt a later version of another
nationally recognized code approved by the legislature by law.
This precludes the opportunity for the legislature to approve a
nationally-recognized code by resolution. There is a memo from
Terry Bannister from our Division of Legal Services attached, I
believe to your committee substitute, that explains that, and the
Senate Labor and Commerce Committee chairman is fine with these
changes, Mr. Chairman."
Number 065
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS referred to page 1, line 6, and asked what
the wording, "of the following publication" refers to.
MS. KREITZER explained that originally the bill read something
like, "and unless the department adopts by regulation a later
edition of the following publications." The Uniform Plumbing Code
is made up of several publications. Page 2 sets out the Uniform
(indisc.).
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if "subsequent" would be a better word
than "following." He said he thought there was a publications
list.
MS. KREITZER said that there is a publications list on page 2.
Number 092
RAY GILLESPIE, International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical
Officials, was next to come before the committee. He stated the
organization he represents supports the legislation with the
amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that her office received a lot of
correspondence regarding this legislation.
Number 113
DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Labor, came before the committee to testify. He said
Ms. Kreitzer pointed out the changes in the draft. He indicated
the committee should have a letter from Deborah Bear, Assistant
Attorney General, which states what Ms. Bannister had said
regarding the word "law." The Department of Labor does support the
changes in Version B. Regarding the Appendices A through L, he
said the department intentionally left out Appendix L in beginning
because they felt that it was a redundancy issue. In Section
18.607.05 regarding the Plumbing Code, the changes refers to
subsection (a), paragraphs 1 and 2. It does not change subsection
(c), which addresses the heat exchanger, which was a big topic of
discussion a couple of years ago. Mr. Perkins said based on the
discussion that was held in Alaska regarding single wall heat
exchangers a couple of years ago, the people who write the Uniform
Plumbing Code did put in Appendix L, which refers to single wall
heat exchangers. It also refers to engineer plumbing systems. The
department does have a process in place to allow for the acceptance
of engineered systems and requires a waiver process. The
department felt that was redundant as well. Mr. Perkins referred
to Appendix L and said it addresses sizing plumbing piping using
bathroom groups in lieu of individual fixture units. He said when
you take a group of bathroom fixtures, and add them all together
instead of individually, you can actually save on the cost of
material for sizing a pipe; therefore, using less material and
saving the client or user money. The department did feel it was
redundant to have that in there, but they aren't in opposition to
including it. Mr. Perkins referred to subsection (a) and stated
they don't have an objection to the proposed language. He said he
would be happy to answer any questions.
CHAIRMAN KOTT said there were no further witnesses to testify and
closed the public hearing.
Number 182
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move HCSCSSB 269, with
individual recommendations and with the attached fiscal notes.
There being no objection HCSCSSB 269(RLS) moved out of the House
Rules Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 197
CHAIRMAN KOTT adjourned the House Rules Committee meeting at 6:10
p.m.
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