Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/16/1993 03:30 PM House RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 16, 1993
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Carl E. Moses, Chairman
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Pat Carney
Representative Fran Ulmer
Representative Jerry Sanders
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Mark Hanley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 205: "An Act relating to alternate members of the
Alaska Legislative Council; and providing for an
effective date."
MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE
WITNESS REGISTER
HOWARD JOYCE
Legislative Aide
Representative Eldon Mulder
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 116
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-2647
Position Statement: Clarified points brought up about voting
procedures and establishing quorums in
the Legislative Council Committee.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 205
SHORT TITLE: ALTERNATES FOR LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
TITLE: "An Act relating to alternate members of the Alaska
Legislative Council and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/05/93 553 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/05/93 553 (H) RULES
03/16/93 (H) RLS AT 03:30 PM SPEAKER'S
CHAMBER
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-3, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN MOSES called the meeting to order at 3:40 p.m. He
noted members in attendance and noted for the record that
HB 205 was on the agenda, providing for alternates on
legislative council, one appointed by the Senate President
and another appointed by the Speaker of the House.
HB 205: ALTERNATES FOR LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
Number 010
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES stated that the reason HB 205
came into existence was, although the statute had been
passed for Budget & Audit to have alternate members, the
statute did not exist for Legislative Council (Leg.
Council). Due to the nature of the committee being similar
to Budget & Audit, it should have an alternate member, she
said.
Number 019
REPRESENTATIVE FRAN ULMER asked about line 10 of page 2 of
the bill, pertaining to the quorum. She stated that
currently, one half of the membership constitutes a quorum,
and HB 205 states that "seven members, regular or alternate,
constitutes a quorum." She noted that on the previous page,
it states, "an alternate only gets to vote if the regular
member is absent." She said this language raises the
question that an alternate, at the meeting in addition to a
regular member, could constitute a quorum, and even though
the previous language says that an alternate cannot vote,
it's not clear that they do not count as a quorum.
Number 030
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER further noted that another concern
about seven members constituting a quorum is that there are
only seven members from each house. She felt that Leg.
Council should have to have a quorum, but that quorum should
not be satisfied only by have one full body's membership
present; which allows all the Senate members to show up, be
a quorum and take action, or all the house members.
Recognizing that Leg. Council is supposed to be a House and
Senate body, designed to look after the interests of both
bodies, it is disturbing knowing that one body or another
could constitute a quorum.
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER noted, lastly, that the language says
regular or alternate members can constitute a quorum. It
should be clear that members from both bodies need to be
present.
Number 044
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated that the language in HB 205 was
no different from the language presently in law, with the
exception of allowing for an alternate to substitute for one
of the regular members, given that the alternate is from the
same body as the absent regular member. There would still
be the same number of people on Leg. Council, the same
quorum requirements would exist, as in law, and the only
difference here would be to allow substitution of a regular
member by a substitute.
Number 054
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated that with HB 205 in House Rules,
now would be an opportune time to make amendments. She
further said that one body should not be able to meet and
make decisions for the entire legislature. The language
should read "seven members, at least one of which is a
member of the other body, or require eight members to be a
quorum."
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked the Chairman if the
committee could hear from Leg. Council staff for
clarification.
Number 061
HOWARD JOYCE, LEGISLATIVE STAFF FOR THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
COMMITTEE, noted that Representative Ulmer's question had
come up before. He said there is a difference between what
constitutes a quorum versus voting procedures. He stated
that the minutes from 1979 say that the Chair, Senator Bill
Ray, had indicated that eight members of Leg. Council must
be present in order to do business or to vote. This was
reiterated in 1981 and in 1984. The voting procedures were
set out by the council, and not in statute, and has always
been different than the quorum.
MR. JOYCE continued by stating that he had contacted Tamara
Cook, Director of Legal Services, and asked her if HB 205
changed the voting procedures or quorum requirements. Ms.
Cook advised that HB 205 did not change those requirements,
and unless Leg. Council wanted, it did not need to be
designated in statute.
Number 076
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER said that the procedures that have been
followed may as well be included in HB 205, as long as
members were taking the time to amend the statute. She
wanted language added to say "votes cannot be taken unless
eight members are present" or just change the quorum
requirement to eight members.
Number 084
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES clarified that her reason for
introducing HB 205 was simply to provide Leg. Council with
alternate members, as Budget & Audit has. She further
exclaimed that she was "not willing to go any further with
amending the statutes, as it relates to Leg. Council,
without a considerable amount of discussion between both
bodies of the legislature".
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES further advised Representative Ulmer
that if she wanted to introduce a bill addressing her
concerns regarding Leg. Council, she should do so.
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER advised the committee that she did not
wish to introduce a bill, but just wanted to change the
quorum requirements. She stated, "This says seven, and I
think it should be eight." She repeated that it was a good
idea to have both houses at the table before decisions get
made, which translates into changing the quorum
requirements.
Number 095
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER moved that the word "seven" on page 2,
line 10, be replaced with the word "eight."
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES objected. She stated that she had an
agreement with the other body that Leg. Council reflects
both bodies and that each body would have an alternate
member, without changing any other portion of the statutes.
She restated that HB 205 does nothing different than what
Budget & Audit language says, and if the minority leader
wishes, she can go negotiate an agreement to change the
quorum to eight members.
Number 111
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated that "it would be a whole new
way of doing business around here, if, when a bill gets
introduced, and it's heard in a committee, why the committee
cannot make changes if a majority of the committee thinks it
makes sense. This is a new idea that we have to go to the
other body and ask if they think it's a good idea that we
entertain a motion to amend a bill."
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the difference between HB 205
and other bills was that Leg. Council is the seat for the
total legislature, and thus has the presiding officers of
both bodies, by statute. The committee meets jointly
because everything Leg. Council does reflects the wishes of
the two bodies. She further claimed that it is appropriate
that when changes are to be made to the operations of Leg.
Council, then it be done in concurrence with both bodies.
Number 124
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER stated in response, "Well, let's go ask
the Senators, lets ask the other members of Leg. Council,
lets go ask the Chairman of Leg. Council. If they don't
agree to change the quorum from seven to eight, then we'll
come back and discuss it. If we have to do it by consensus,
fine, then we'll do it by consensus. It just seems like
there's a great opportunity here to fix something and to
solidify a practice that protects both bodies in the future
from one body running away with itself."
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated that if the minority leader
would withdraw her motion, she would agree to take the
subject up before the next Leg. Council meeting and ask them
to have a special hearing on the subject. Perhaps they
could get some action from Leg. Council directly.
Number 136
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER questioned when the next Leg. Council
meeting was scheduled so that an amendment could be made to
HB 205, as there was no point in having two bills dealing
with the procedures of Leg. Council.
MR. JOYCE clarified that there was, at the time, no Leg.
Council meeting set for that week, March 15-19, but there
should be one the following week, March 22-26.
Number 143
CHAIRMAN MOSES asked for clarification that the quorum
requirement was taken care of by a rule.
MR. JOYCE assured that currently, voting procedures were
established earlier and are still adhered to Leg. Council
dictate that eight members must vote in order to pass or
take action. Seven is required to do business, but it takes
eight to move anything out of Leg. Council.
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER argued that "this is not a legislative
rule, not required by Uniform Rules."
Number 152
REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated that it makes sense to take
something previously agreed to by former Leg. Councils and
put it in statute so that it is solid. He further said that
he understood the Speaker being concerned about doing
something beyond that which you had agreed to, but he
couldn't imagine why the people abiding by the current rules
would not want to put them in statute. He then asked if, by
specifying eight, this committee makes it easier for the
minimum number of people to conduct business.
Number 158
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES then stated that 50 percent of the
Leg. Council body constitutes a quorum, but it takes 50
percent plus one, always, to conduct business. Whether by
rules or by law, it takes 50 percent plus one to conduct
business. She then advised that the concerns of
Representative Ulmer were already provided for, because the
legislative rules require that a majority is required in
order to conduct business.
Number 175
MR. JOYCE restated that Tamara Cook, the Director of Legal
Services, had advised him that it was not necessary to add
the voting procedures into statute unless it had to be
specially stated.
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER withdrew her motion with the
understanding that the majority leader will take the issue
up before Leg. Council to discuss the seven versus eight
member issue, and also the way in which votes are going to
be taken. She further mentioned that seven members could
constitute a quorum, from one body, and have decisions made.
Number 189
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES broke in and exclaimed that "they
can't."
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked Representative Barnes to show her
where it was written that seven members of Leg. Council
could not take action under those circumstances. She then
asked the majority members what would happen if the next
Leg. Council didn't feel like operating this way.
Number 206
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked Chairman Moses that he must
remember from past years as a Representative how powerful
Leg. Council was and how that committee was responsible for
spending large sums of money. She then offered to do
research on the rules and statutes, or perhaps just offer a
floor amendment later.
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER removed her amendment. Hearing no
objection, Chairman Moses ordered it so.
Number 220
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS moved to pass HB 205 from committee
with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection,
Chairman Moses ordered it so.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN MOSES asked members if there were further comments.
Hearing none, he adjourned the meeting at 4:05 p.m.
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