Legislature(2003 - 2004)
05/06/2004 04:16 PM House RLS
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RULES STANDING COMMITTEE
May 6, 2004
4:16 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chair
Representative Pete Kott
Representative John Coghill
Representative Lesil McGuire
Representative Carl Morgan
Representative Ethan Berkowitz
Representative Beth Kerttula
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Ralph Samuels
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 385(JUD) am
"An Act relating to homeland security, to civil defense, to
emergencies and to disasters, including disasters in the event
of attacks, outbreaks of disease, or threats of attack or
outbreak of disease; establishing the Alaska division of
homeland security and emergency management in the Department of
Military and Veterans' Affairs and relating to the functions of
that division and that department; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED HCS CSSB 385(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 39
Establishing the Alaska Royalty and Revenue Task Force.
- MOVED CSHCR 39(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 385
SHORT TITLE: SECURITY;DIV. HOMELAND SECURITY/EMER. MGT
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
04/05/04 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/05/04 (S) HES, FIN
04/05/04 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/05/04 (S) Heard & Held
04/05/04 (S) MINUTE(HES)
04/07/04 (S) HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/07/04 (S) -- Rescheduled to 5:30 pm 04/07/04 --
04/07/04 (S) HES AT 5:30 PM BUTROVICH 205
04/07/04 (S) -- Rescheduled from 1:30 04/07/04 --
04/08/04 (S) HES RPT CS 2DP 2NR SAME TITLE
04/08/04 (S) DP: DYSON, WILKEN; NR: GUESS, DAVIS
04/16/04 (S) FIN REFERRAL WAIVED REFERRED TO RULES
04/20/04 (S) JUD REFERRAL ADDED AFTER HES
04/20/04 (S) JUD WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE,RULE23
04/21/04 (S) JUD AT 8:00 AM BUTROVICH 205
04/21/04 (S) Moved CSSB 385(JUD) Out of Committee
04/21/04 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/22/04 (S) JUD RPT CS 1DP 2NR SAME TITLE
04/22/04 (S) DP: SEEKINS; NR: FRENCH, OGAN
04/22/04 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
04/22/04 (S) Waived from Committee
04/29/04 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/29/04 (S) VERSION: CSSB 385(JUD) AM
04/30/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/30/04 (H) STA
05/04/04 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
05/04/04 (H) Heard & Held
05/04/04 (H) MINUTE(STA)
05/05/04 (H) STA RPT 3DP 2NR 2AM
05/05/04 (H) DP: SEATON, HOLM, WEYHRAUCH;
05/05/04 (H) NR: COGHILL, BERKOWITZ; AM: GRUENBERG,
05/05/04 (H) LYNN
05/05/04 (H) STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 102
05/05/04 (H) Moved Out of Committee
05/05/04 (H) MINUTE(STA)
05/06/04 (H) RLS AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HCR 39
SHORT TITLE: ALASKA ROYALTY AND REVENUE TASK FORCE
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF ECON DEV, INT TRADE & TOURISM
05/06/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/06/04 (H) RLS
05/06/04 (H) RLS AT 1:30 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
WES KELLER, Staff
to Senator Fred Dyson
Senate Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 385 on behalf of the sponsor,
Senate Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee,
which Senator Dyson chairs.
DAVID LIEBERSBACH, Director
Division of Homeland Security/Emergency Services
Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs
Fort Richardson, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During discussion of SB 385, answered
questions.
SUE STANCLIFF
House Majority Office
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During discussion of SB 385, answered
questions.
REPRESENTATIVE MAX GRUENBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As the maker of Amendments 3, 4, and 5 to
SB 385, explained Amendments 3, 4, and 5.
REPRESENTATIVE CHERYLL HEINZE
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As the chair of the House Special Committee
on Economic Development, International Trade and Tourism,
presented HCR 39.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-6, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Rules Standing Committee
meeting to order at 4:16 p.m. Representatives Rokeberg, Kott,
Coghill, McGuire, Morgan, Berkowitz, and Kerttula were present
at the call to order. Also in attendance was Representative
Samuels.
SB 385-SECURITY;DIV. HOMELAND SECURITY/EMER. MGT
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that the first order of business would
be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 385(JUD) am, "An Act relating to
homeland security, to civil defense, to emergencies and to
disasters, including disasters in the event of attacks,
outbreaks of disease, or threats of attack or outbreak of
disease; establishing the Alaska division of homeland security
and emergency management in the Department of Military and
Veterans' Affairs and relating to the functions of that division
and that department; and providing for an effective date."
Number 018
WES KELLER, Staff to Senator Fred Dyson, Senate Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee, Alaska State
Legislature, explained that SB 385 updates the existing civil
defense laws to address homeland security issues. The
legislation combines the Division of Homeland Security and the
Division of Emergency Services into one division called the
Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management.
Furthermore, the legislation establishes a legislative
subcommittee of that new division.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if the [division and the
subcommittee] are modeled after similar entities in other
states.
Number 038
DAVID LIEBERSBACH, Director, Division of Homeland
Security/Emergency Services, Department of Military & Veterans'
Affairs (DMVA), specified that when putting this together other
places around the nation weren't reviewed. The original civil
defense statute that was enacted in 1951 was fairly uniform
across the nation. Therefore, that statute was used [and
changed] to address today's threats, which are a bit different
than those of 1951.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ expressed the need to ensure that the
state division is able to communicate appropriately with the
federal department. He asked if there has been any discussion
with the federal Department of Homeland Security regarding this
legislation.
MR. LIEBERSBACH replied yes. He explained that the division is
modeled after the federal Department of Homeland Security as
closely as possible, while recognizing that many of the missions
of the federal department aren't state missions. He specified
that Alaska's division mainly works on planning and preparedness
as well as recovery, which is the equivalent of the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) that was rolled into the
Department of Homeland Security. The process of putting
together this legislation began a little over a year ago, he
noted.
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon determining there were no further questions
and no one else wished to testify, closed public testimony.
Number 105
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Amendment 1,
labeled 23-LS1907\SA.11, Crawford, 5/6/04, which read:
Page 1, line 12:
Delete "sec. 20"
Insert "sec. 22"
Page 21, following line 3:
Insert new bill sections to read:
"* Sec. 18. AS 26.23.170 is amended to read:
Sec. 26.23.170. Communications. The Department
of Military and Veterans' Affairs [ALASKA DIVISION OF
EMERGENCY SERVICES] shall ascertain what means exist
for rapid and efficient communications in times of
disaster emergency. The department [DIVISION] shall
consider the desirability of supplementing these
communications resources, or of integrating them into
a comprehensive state or state-federal
telecommunications network or other communication
system or network. In studying the character and
feasibility of any system or its several parts, the
department [DIVISION] shall evaluate the possibility
of multi-purpose use of it or its parts for general
state and local governmental purposes. The department
[DIVISION] shall make recommendations to the governor
as appropriate.
* Sec. 19. Sec. 26.23.170 is amended by adding a
new subsection to read:
(b) A statewide 911 coordinator is established
within the Department of Military and Veterans'
Affairs to coordinate and facilitate the
implementation of 911 systems throughout the state.
The 911 coordinator shall
(1) participate in efforts to set uniform
statewide standards for automatic number
identification and automatic location identification
data transmission for telecommunications systems;
(2) made recommendations as necessary for
implementation of basic and enhanced 911 service."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 23, line 5:
Delete "this Act"
Insert "this section"
Page 23, following line 22:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 27. Section 19 of this Act takes effect
March 1, 2005."
Renumber the following bill section accordingly.
Page 23, line 23:
Delete "This Act"
Insert "Except as provided in sec. 27 of this
Act, this Act"
SUE STANCLIFF, House Majority Office, Alaska State Legislature,
explained that Amendment 1 establishes a statewide 911
coordinator in DMVA. Amendment 1 changes [AS 26.23.170] to
refer to DMVA rather than the Alaska Division of Emergency
Services and the references in that section to "division" are
changed to reference "the department". Currently, the Division
of Emergency Services falls under DMVA. The remainder of
[Amendment 1] is conforming language. Ms. Stancliff highlighted
that the effective date for the coordinator is March 1, 2005.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ pointed out that in Section 19(b)(2) of
Amendment 1 the word "made" should be "make".
CHAIR ROKEBERG identified the aforementioned change as a
conforming amendment to Amendment 1 [and was treated as
incorporated in Amendment 1].
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if this statewide 911 coordinator
who would coordinate and facilitate the implementation of the
911 systems throughout the state is duplicative of other
efforts. He also asked if this is something that could be
contracted out for a certain period of time.
MS. STANCLIFF said that she didn't believe this new position is
duplicative. She explained that there are state strategies for
accelerating enhanced 911 as well as strategies to achieve the
enhanced 911 service delivery. She emphasized that this new
position is a statewide position.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ asked if there is an individual who
coordinates communication throughout the state in the event of
an emergency. If there is no such position, then it would seem
that those duties would be included in the description of the
duties of this new position. He then inquired as to whether
there would be a fiscal note for this new position.
MS. STANCLIFF answered that she didn't believe there is an
individual who coordinates communication statewide because the
state hasn't reached the level of being able to facilitate a
statewide [coordinator]. With regard to the fiscal impact, the
money the department has along with anticipated federal funds
for homeland security would "take care of this position."
Number 164
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said, then, he would propose a
conceptual amendment that the responsibilities of this new
position would include helping coordinate communication. He
recalled that one of the problems in New York was that the
[emergency responders] could not communicate [across groups]
because of differing radio frequencies and communication
obstacles within groups.
CHAIR ROKEBERG asked if the discussion is referring to a 911
coordinator or a homeland security communications coordinator.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified that [the new position is for] a
911 coordinator. He informed the committee that currently an
individual in the Department of Administration has assumed the
aforementioned responsibility. He reminded the committee that
most of the communications related to emergency services have
been transferred to the DMVA. Under Adjutant General Campbell,
a communications section has been established to deal with what
Representative Berkowitz is discussing. Once that section is
finalized, it's the intent to turn that section into a division
that will incorporate the enhanced 911 coordinator.
Representative Kott emphasized the importance of an enhanced 911
coordinator position as a [permanent position] because there is
about $500 million in potential grant monies that will be made
available in the next two to three months. One of the
prerequisites for receiving the money is having a 911
coordinator in place.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ withdrew his conceptual amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT informed the committee that Adjutant General
Campbell believes that the framework would be in place in March.
This has been coordinated with DMVA.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ noted his appreciation knowing that
there are additional federal funds available because law
enforcement has complained that there have been a lot of
unfunded mandates with regard to these type of emergencies.
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon determining there was no further discussion
or any objection to Amendment 1, announced that Amendment 1 was
adopted.
Number 207
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Amendment 2,
labeled 23-LS1907\SA.9, Finley/Crawford, 5/5/04, which read:
Page 2, line 4, through page 7, line 24:
Delete all material and insert:
"* Sec. 2. AS 24.20 is amended by adding a new
section to article 5 to read:
Sec. 24.20.680. Legislative review. (a) The
president of the senate and the speaker of the house
of representatives shall appoint members or committees
of the senate and the house, respectively, to review
confidential activities, plans, reports,
recommendations, and other materials of the Alaska
division of homeland security and emergency management
established in AS 24.20.025, or of other agencies or
persons, relating to matters concerning homeland
security and civil defense, emergencies, or disasters
in the state or to the state's preparedness for or
ability to mount a prompt response to matters
concerning homeland security and civil defense,
emergencies, or disasters. In making appointments
under this subsection, each presiding officer shall
ensure that the political party membership of the
members appointed by that presiding officer is
proportional to the political party membership of the
house of the legislature over which the officer
presides.
(b) To be eligible for appointment under (a) of
this section, a member shall have a federal security
clearance at the secret level at the time of
appointment or shall have an interim security
clearance at the secret level at the time of
appointment and shall apply for and receive a federal
security clearance at the secret level. Members
holding a federal security clearance at the secret
level at the time of appointment or receiving the
clearance following appointment shall maintain the
federal security clearance at the secret level to
remain qualified to serve in appointed status.
(c) The president of the senate and the speaker
of the house of representatives may condition the
appointment of members under (a) of this section upon
the execution of appropriate confidentiality
agreements by the members or by persons assisting
those members. Information and documents received by
appointed members or persons assisting appointed
members under a confidentiality agreement as described
in this subsection are not public records and are not
subject to public disclosure under AS 40.25.100 -
40.25.220.
(d) Appointed members who remain qualified under
(b) of this section serve for the duration of the
legislature during which the members are appointed.
If a member is reelected or a member's term of office
extends into the next succeeding legislature and the
member remains qualified under (a) and (b) of this
section, the member shall continue to serve until
reappointed or the appointment of the member's
successor.
(e) When a member appointed under (a) of this
section files a declaration of candidacy for an
elective office other than that of member of either
house of the legislature, and the member has not
resigned from appointed status, the member's appointed
status terminates on the date that the member leaves
legislative office."
Page 22, line 16, through page 23, line 5:
Delete all material and insert:
"* Sec. 21. AS 24.20.680 is repealed January 1,
2009.
* Sec. 22. The uncodified law of the State of
Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:
PREPARATION AND PRESENTATION OF PROPOSED
LEGISLATION. If the adjutant general of the
Department of Military and Veterans' Affairs
determines that additional qualifications for
appointment under AS 24.20.680, added by sec. 2 of
this Act, would significantly enhance the security of
sensitive materials or information to be reviewed
under AS 24.20.680, the adjutant general shall prepare
a bill proposing amendments to AS 24.20.680, enacted
by sec. 2 of this Act, for consideration by each house
of the legislature, and shall deliver the bill to the
Secretary of the Alaska State Senate and the Chief
Clerk of the Alaska State House of Representatives not
later than 30 days following the convening of the
First Regular Session of the Twenty-Fourth Alaska
State Legislature.
* Sec. 23. The uncodified law of the State of
Alaska is amended by adding a new section to read:
INITIAL APPOINTMENT. The President of the Alaska
State Senate and the Speaker of the Alaska State House
of Representatives shall make the appointments
required under AS 24.20.680, enacted by sec. 2 of this
Act, within 15 days after the effective date of this
Act."
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT then moved the following amendment to
Amendment 2, which would amend the proposed Section 2 by
inserting "oversight" following the word "Legislative" and
would, in the proposed Section 2, delete the word "review" and
insert "oversee".
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA pointed out that when the legislature
oversees confidential activities, plans, or reports, it's not
with the purpose of being responsible for those. Therefore, she
surmised that the legislature would serve in the capacity of
reviewing rather than controlling.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT agreed, adding that there is no controlling
aspect. He pointed out that is a departure from the original
legislation in that the membership has been narrowed from just
the members of the Joint Armed Services Committee, which could
be a temporary committee. Representative Kott related that he
and Adjutant General Campbell believe that the Speaker of the
House and the President of the Senate should appoint a limited
number of individuals who would have security clearance allowing
them to be briefed on homeland security issues of a confidential
nature. There are provisions for those leaving office or who
are terminated.
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that he didn't like the amendment to
Amendment 2. He noted his agreement with Representative
Kerttula, and questioned whether [the legislature] would oversee
confidential activities or plans or review them.
Number 239
MR. KELLER explained that the intent of the original legislation
was to create a subcommittee that acted as a liaison and an
information-gathering entity that reports to the legislature.
Creating the subcommittee under the Joint Armed Services
Committee, which he said he believes to be a permanent
committee, was intended to save costs. He explained that the
travel would be covered under the joint committee, as would the
staff.
CHAIR ROKEBERG maintained concern with regard to the amendment
to Amendment 2 and the meaning of oversight versus review. He
opined that oversight seems to involve a greater amount of
control and direction.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified that he didn't bring the amendment
forward. From his discussions with Adjutant General Campbell,
[the members of the subcommittee] would be briefed on the
confidential activities, plans, and reports.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ interjected his belief "that we're just
splitting hairs here."
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that he objected to the amendment to
Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE agreed with Chair Rokeberg, adding that
oversight implies some measure of control or authority no
different than a manager overseeing the work of a clerk or other
employee.
Number 283
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT withdrew the amendment to Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA returned to the amendment to Amendment 2
and suggested that if the intent is really for the
[subcommittee] to serve as a liaison, then that could be
specified.
MR. LIEBERSBACH pointed out that the references to "AS
24.20.025" in the proposed Section 2 of Amendment 2 should refer
to "AS 26.20.025".
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that the aforementioned would be a
technical amendment to Amendment 2. He asked if there were any
objections. There being none, the amendment [as suggested by
Mr. Liebersbach] to Amendment 2 was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said that he wanted to be sure that
Amendment 2 also includes a classified briefing when there are
no confidential activities to review.
CHAIR ROKEBERG surmised that the scope would fall under whatever
is allowed under the military and security provisions. Upon
determining there were no objections to Amendment 2 [as
amended], Chair Rokeberg announced that Amendment 2 [as amended]
was adopted.
Number 318
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved that the committee adopt Amendment
3, labeled 23-LS1907\SA.10, Crawford, 5/5/04, which read:
Page 19, line 8:
Delete "The"
Insert "To the extent preempted by federal law
or, in the absence of federal law preemption, if and
to the extent requested by authorized federal
authorities, the"
REPRESENTATIVE MAX GRUENBERG, Alaska State Legislature, speaking
as the maker of Amendment 3, explained that the amendment makes
it clear that the federal law applies in place of state law if
the federal law preempts the state law or if the federal
authorities request that federal law take precedence. The
latter language was suggested by the department. Although the
preemption is implied, this amendment makes it explicit.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE remarked that the first part is implied,
and therefore the additional language isn't necessary. With
regard to the second part, she said that she had never seen
[such language] and was concerned with it.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG reiterated that [the language] was at
the request of the department because it felt that sometimes,
for reasons of comity or uniformity, there might be a request
that the federal procedure take precedence. The aforementioned
makes sense, he said.
Number 355
MR. LIEBERSBACH explained that there are facilities and other
[entities] in the state that are the responsibility of the
federal government. For example, airports and the Coast Guard
would fall under the responsibility of the federal government.
Amendment 3 specifies that the responsibilities laid out in this
legislation don't apply to the federal facilities. Mr.
Liebersbach specified that this has nothing to do with the U.S.
Patriot Act. He explained that Amendment 3 specifies that the
requirements of AS 26.20.195 don't apply unless there is an
absence of federal law or the federal law requests it.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ said that he shared Representative
McGuire's concern. The first phrase of [Amendment 3] merely
restates the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution, which
specifies that the state has to give way to the federal
government. However, the second section of Amendment 3 implies
that in the absence of federal law, if a federal authority says
to do something that conflicts with state authority even if it's
beyond the scope of that federal authority's duties, the state
might have to defer to it. Representative Berkowitz said that
he wasn't willing to concede such sovereignty to the federal
government. Therefore, he suggested that the language after
"law" be deleted from Amendment 3.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG related his belief that the department
wants to be able to cooperate with federal authorities, when
requested.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ appreciated that, but emphasized that
there are times when he wanted the department to tell the
federal authorities what to do.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG clarified that it wasn't his intent to
prevent [the department from telling the federal authorities
what to do]. This language allows them to cooperate.
CHAIR ROKEBERG opined that Amendment 3 would create a statute
that would mandate the department to accede to any request by
the federal government. Therefore, Chair Rokeberg expressed the
need to rework the language.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA withdrew Amendment 3.
Number 413
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved to adopt Amendment 4, which read
[original punctuation provided]:
Page 11, line 28 - delete "threat of attacks" and
insert "threat levels"
Page 12, line 16 - delete "threat from attacks" and
insert "attack threats"
Page 13, line 4 - delete "preventive" and insert
"prevention"
Page 21, lines 7-8 - delete "imminent threat of
attack" and insert "a credible threat of imminent
enemy or terrorist attack"
Page 21, line 29 - delete "an imminent" and insert "a
credible"
Page 21, line 30 - before "enemy" insert "imminent"
Page 22, line 6 - delete "an imminent threat of" and
insert "a credible threat of an imminent"
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, speaking as the maker of Amendment 4,
explained that Amendment 4 ensures that the terms being used in
the legislation are congruent.
[Chair Rokeberg treated his objection as withdrawn.]
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon determining there was no objection,
announced that Amendment 4 was adopted.
Number 432
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved that the committee adopt Amendment
5, which read [original punctuation provided]:
Page 16, lines 24-25
Delete "avoid the checkpoint by rerouting
travel;"
Insert "turn around without passing through the
checkpoint;"
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG, speaking as the maker of Amendment 5,
explained that Amendment 5 is language suggested by DMVA in
order to ensure that a driver [has the opportunity] to turn
around without passing through the checkpoint. There was no
intent to allow terrorist to evade the checkpoints.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ informed the committee that there are
some severe constitutional restrictions with regard to the
state's ability to set up checkpoints. He emphasized that the
correct language is necessary to ensure that in Alaska a
checkpoint that cannot be avoided can be put in place.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said that if the committee adopts
Amendment 5, then he would commit to working with Representative
Berkowitz and the department to cure any constitutional
problems. He mentioned that he would check with the attorney
general and legal counsel.
CHAIR ROKEBERG related his understanding that the draft came
from the [Department of Law].
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG replied in the affirmative.
[Chair Rokeberg treated his objection as withdrawn.]
CHAIR ROKEBERG, upon determining there was no objection,
announced that Amendment 5 was adopted.
Number 465
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ moved to report CSSB 385(JUD) am, as
amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and
the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, HCS
CSSB 385(RLS) was reported from the House Rules Standing
Committee.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
HCR 39-ALASKA ROYALTY AND REVENUE TASK FORCE
CHAIR ROKEBERG announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 39, Establishing the Alaska
Royalty and Revenue Task Force.
Number 471
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to adopt CSHCR 39, Version 23-
LS1971\U, as the working document.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE objected for discussion purposes. She
pointed out that HCR 39 originally stated that the entity would
consist of seven members of the legislature chosen jointly by
the presiding officers of the House and the Senate, of which
three would be chosen from a list produced by the Minority
members.
CHAIR ROKEBERG interjected that he would prefer to have Version
U before the committee because [the original version] "is not
even a read across bill."
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE removed her objection.
Number 485
REPRESENTATIVE CHERYLL HEINZE, Alaska State Legislature, spoke
as the chair of the House Special Committee on Economic
Development, International Trade and Tourism, which requested
the legislation of the House Rules Standing Committee. She
explained that HCR 39 is really about looking at the revenue the
state receives through the property tax, corporate income tax,
and severance tax. It has been 15 years since these taxes have
been revisited. The [goal] of the commission is to make Alaska
competitive and inform Alaskans of the state's position
globally.
CHAIR ROKEBERG inquired as to why the entity is a commission
that includes two experts who aren't members of the legislature.
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE acknowledged that the entity could have
been a task force, however a commission seems to have a bit more
importance. With regard to the experts, Representative Heinze
said she doesn't believe anyone in the legislature is well
versed in the oil and gas tax structure in Alaska.
Number 508
CHAIR ROKEBERG acknowledged that there seems to be some
controversy with regard to the makeup of the committee.
Therefore, he asked Representative Heinze her preference for the
commission's makeup.
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE related her preference for the structure
put forth in the original legislation. As mentioned earlier,
the original legislation consisted of seven members of the
legislature chosen by the presiding officers of each body. The
original makeup of the commission included five members from the
Majority and two members from the Minority and the chair of the
Joint Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit. The thought
was that the chair of the Joint Committee on Legislative Budget
and Audit would provide some continuity, with which she agreed.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE recalled discussion of not having the
consultants actually be members of the committee, but rather
have them report neutral, unbiased findings. If the
aforementioned was the case, then two other legislative members
could be jointly appointed. Representative McGuire opined that
it's fairly unorthodox for an unelected official who isn't a
member of the legislature to be member of a legislative
commission.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT noted his agreement with Representative
McGuire. He related his belief that the commission should
consist of three members chosen by the presiding officer of the
Senate, three members chosen by the presiding officer of the
House, and the chair of Joint Committee on Legislative Budget
and Audit. Of the three members from each body, two would be
from the Majority and one from the Minority. The work of the
two experts chosen jointly by the presiding officers of each
body is specified on page 2, lines 20-22. Representative Kott
clarified that the two experts aren't members of the commission
but rather are consultants. He emphasized that he didn't want
this commission to be biased in any way. "The consultants will
actually be the ones that participate, coordinate, and evaluate
the current fiscal oil and gas regimes and ... tax structure.
They will report back to the membership that makeup the
commission ...." Although the legislation specifies that the
consultants will provide the report to the chair of the Joint
Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit, if that person sits
on the commission there is no need for such.
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE clarified that the original structure was
such that the experts weren't on the commission but rather
served as unbiased consultants.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA reminded the committee that the makeup
of the Special Committee on Mergers was similar to what is being
proposed in this resolution, although it may have had a bit more
freedom in terms of who was on the committee. She highlighted
that the Special Committee on Mergers chose the experts, not the
presiding officers. She suggested that the aforementioned
should be the case for this commission.
Number 572
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 1, as follows:
Page 2, line 10;
Delete "nine"
Insert "seven"
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 2, which would change the language on [page 2, lines
12-15] such that it would read as follows:
"seven members of the legislature, three chosen
by the Speaker of the House, three chosen by the
President of the Senate, of which one of the three
must be a Minority member, and the chair of the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee."
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 3, as follows:
Page 3;
Delete lines 16-17.
There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.
Number 588
CHAIR ROKEBERG said he didn't believe the Uniform Rules covers
commissions.
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE related that Judy Ohmer, Staff to
Representative Pete Kott, reviewed the matter of commissions in
the legislature with Legislative Legal and Research Services.
TAPE 04-6, SIDE B
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE informed the committee that the
recommendation was that a commission would be better than a task
force.
CHAIR ROKEBERG said the entity being created by this resolution
is really a joint committee, and therefore it should be called
such.
Number 580
CHAIR ROKEBERG moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 4, which would conform the entire resolution such that
it would refer to "committee" or "joint committee" as
appropriate. There being no objection, Conceptual Amendment 4
was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE pointed out that in the original version
there is a "WHEREAS" clause on page 1, lines 7-8, that is not
included in Version U. She characterized the language on page
1, lines 7-8, of the original version as the crux of the issue.
Number 569
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 5, which would insert the following language:
"WHEREAS the legislature has a constitutional
obligation to develop the state's resources for the
maximum benefit of the people"
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for purposes of discussion. He then
removed his objection. Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 5 was
adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA noted that it may be necessary for the
committee to receive confidential information, and asked about
inserting language that would allow such.
Number 564
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA moved that the committee adopt
Conceptual Amendment 6, which would insert language specifying,
"that the committee has the authority to request and receive
confidential information". She indicated that the language
would be a "[FURTHER] RESOLVED" provision. There being no
objection, Conceptual Amendment 6 was adopted.
CHAIR ROKEBERG highlighted that by making this entity a
committee, which will function under the Uniform Rules; it will
be allowed to enter into executive sessions.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT turned attention to the reference to members
of the [committee] who aren't legislators on page 3, lines 6-10.
He noted that now all members of the committee are legislators.
Therefore, he related his belief that any travel done by the
consultants would be covered in the consultants' contract while
legislators will be covered under any existing travel
arrangements.
Number 535
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Conceptual
Amendment 7, as follows:
Page 3, lines 6-10
Delete all material.
Number 532
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE moved to report CSHCR 39, Version 23-
LS1971\U, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT drew attention to page 3, lines 11-13, which
specifies that the [committee] is to present its report to the
Legislative Budget and Audit Committee, who is to present the
report to the legislature. However, the chair of the Joint
Committee on Legislative Budget and Audit is a member of the
proposed committee, and therefore could present the report to
the committee, he suggested.
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ opined that it seems appropriate that
the findings be submitted toward the beginning of session so
that if there is the need for the legislature to act, it has the
opportunity to do so.
CHAIR ROKEBERG pointed out that the [committee] would be
terminated "not later than the adjournment of the First Regular
Session of the Twenty-Fourth Alaska State Legislature."
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ expressed the need for the legislature
to be able to move on any incentive program quickly,
particularly in relation to exploration and development.
Therefore, he suggested that a February 1st deadline would be
appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said that he would agree to a time certain
date or as soon as practical.
Number 511
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL noted that he would agree with
Representative Berkowitz to some degree, although he suggested
that March may be a better timeframe.
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE withdrew her motion to report CSHCR 39,
as amended, from committee.
CHAIR ROKEBERG commented that this committee should do its work
appropriately. Even if the committee has a termination date
some time during the next session, the consultants would want
the ability to report. Therefore, the contract would continue
and "oversight" of the committee would remain. Chair Rokeberg
expressed that he would be "happy" with some sort of compromise,
but not at the end of the first regular session.
Number 497
REPRESENTATIVE BERKOWITZ [moved that the committee adopt
Conceptual Amendment 7], which would [insert language on page 3,
lines 11-12] specifying that a report be submitted no later than
March 1, 2005.
CHAIR ROKEBERG objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA recalled that the Special Committee on
Mergers had a deadline by which it had to report.
CHAIR ROKEBERG interjected that there is some benefit to that.
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA submitted that if the Special Committee
on Mergers could meet its deadline, then this proposed committee
shouldn't have any problem. In response to Chair Rokeberg, she
recalled that the Special Committee on Mergers existed from the
end of a [second regular session] through an interim.
Representative Kerttula pointed out that the experts have to
perform the bulk of the work.
CHAIR ROKEBERG expressed the need for this proposed committee to
have public input and hearings.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL stated that March would be in the middle
of session, and therefore there will be time to act on that
information or obtain new information, if necessary. However,
if the report is too early, "you might thwart the work."
CHAIR ROKEBERG maintained his objection.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives McGuire, Morgan,
Berkowitz, Kerttula, Kott, and Coghill voted in favor of
[Conceptual Amendment 7]. Representative Rokeberg voted against
it. Therefore, [Conceptual Amendment 7] was adopted by a vote
of 6-1.
Number 468
REPRESENTATIVE McGUIRE moved to report CSHCR 39, Version 23-
LS1971\U, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT objected for purposes of discussion. He
pointed out that the fiscal note addresses a nine-member task
force and since the [committee] now consists of seven members it
may reduce the fiscal note a bit. Representative Kott removed
his objection.
There being no objection, CSHCR 39(RLS) was reported from the
House Rules Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Rules Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 5:18 p.m.
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