Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
05/03/2023 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Presentation(s): the Moral Case for Fossil Fuels | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
May 3, 2023
1:16 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Tom McKay, Chair
Representative Dan Saddler
Representative Stanley Wright
Representative Jennie Armstrong
Representative Donna Mears
Representative Maxine Dibert
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative George Rauscher, Vice Chair
Representative Josiah Patkotak
Representative Kevin McCabe
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
PRESENTATION(S): THE MORAL CASE FOR FOSSIL FUELS
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
ALEX EPSTEIN, Founder/President
Center for Industrial Progress
San Diego, California
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave the Moral Case for Fossil Fuels
Presentation.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:16:35 PM
CHAIR TOM MCKAY called the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 1:16 p.m. Representatives Mears, Dibert,
[Saddler], and McKay were present at the call to order.
Representatives Armstrong and Wright arrived as the meeting was
in progress.
^PRESENTATION(S): THE MORAL CASE FOR FOSSIL FUELS
PRESENTATION(S): THE MORAL CASE FOR FOSSIL FUELS
1:17:07 PM
CHAIR MCKAY announced that the only order of business would be
the Moral Case for Fossil Fuels presentation.
1:18:13 PM
ALEX EPSTEIN, Founder/President, Center for Industrial Progress,
began by giving his background in both philosophy and the fossil
fuel industry and sharing his opinions regarding the world's
future need for fossil fuels. He commenced the Moral Case for
Fossil Fuels presentation via PowerPoint [hardcopy included in
the committee packet], on slide 4, which gave a comparison
between fossil fuels and medicine. He continued to slide 5,
which attempted to validate the need for fossil fuels through
this medicine comparison. He moved to slide 6, to share "three
irrefutable principles" to his own understanding of the
scientifically proven fact of climate change that fossil fuel
use must be mitigated and eventually eliminated.
1:28:27 PM
MR. EPSTEIN presented "ten undeniable facts of fossil fuels,"
shown on slides 7-22: 1) cost-effective energy is essential to
human flourishing; 2) billions of people currently lack cost-
effective energy sources; 3) fossil fuels are a uniquely cost-
effective source of energy; 4) unreliable solar and wind
electricity are failing to replace fossil fuel energy; 5) fossil
fuels give humans an enormous ability to master climate danger,
whether natural or manmade; 6) human's carbon dioxide emissions
over the last 170 years of fossil fuel use have correlated with
about 1 degree Celsius of global warming; 7) there are still far
more cold-related deaths than heat-related deaths; 8) warming is
occurring more often in colder regions of the planet during its
cold season; 9) the greenhouse effect of carbon dioxide is a
diminishing logarithmic effect that will eventually slow in its
pace; and 10) the projected worsening weather and increase in
sea level are currently "masterable" by an "empowered world."
1:41:44 PM
MR. EPSTEIN skipped to slide 24, which outlined a set of
conclusions that could be drawn from the presentation, and to
slide 26, which shared his belief that current political
leadership is making irrational decisions in regard to fossil
fuel policy. Showing slide 27, he talked about a need for
"better energy education" for the public. Slides 28-29 provided
sources Mr. Epstein used in creating the presentation.
1:45:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT asked if there is a defined tolerance of
how far the sea level could rise.
MR. EPSTEIN responded that the negative effects of sea level
rise would be dependent on the state's ability to mitigate them.
1:47:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG asked if Mr. Epstein had considered the
effects that climate change has on Alaska when he wrote his book
Fossil Future.
MR. EPSTEIN answered that he has had discussions with Governor
Mike Dunleavy about fossil fuel policy at the federal level.
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG challenged Mr. Epstein's idea that
producing fossil fuels is necessary for humans to flourish by
pointing out that Alaska, which is one of the top fossil fuel
producing states, ranks last in many humanitarian statistics,
along with many other top fossil fuel producing countries in the
world. She further challenged Mr. Epstein's idea that fossil
fuel is necessary to create cost-effective energy by again
pointing out that Alaska is one of the top fossil fuel producing
states but has one of the highest costs of energy in the
country. She pointed out that the state already subsidizes
nearly $40 million a year for diesel fuel in rural communities
across the state, but certain areas of Alaska, like Juneau, have
some of the cheapest energy in the country due in full to its
hydroelectric energy source.
MR. EPSTEIN, in response to Representative Armstrong, said that
hydroelectric electricity is limited in where it can be applied
because of topographic restrictions. He said that the reason
that Saudi Arabia and Venezuela are lower in humanitarian
statistics is because of their culture and emphasized that his
perspective is not that of an oil producer but one of someone
who wants the most cost-effective energy option for all
consumers.
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG said that she wants pro-responsible
resource development and pro-renewable and pro-nuclear energy.
1:52:26 PM
CHAIR MCKAY opined that the quality of life in Alaska was lower
before it became a state.
1:52:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DIBERT spoke to her experience living in rural
Alaska and shared how the climate there is being affected by
climate change. She said that rivers are no longer freezing
which is making them harder and unsafe to navigate and further
shared that her family hasn't been able to harvest salmon on the
Yukon River for the last five years. She asked Mr. Epstein how
his studies are connected with rural villages in Alaska.
MR. EPSTEIN asked Representative Dibert what she thinks should
be done to solve the problems she mentioned and asked if "China
and India shouldn't industrialize so that people could live the
exact same lifestyle in rural Alaska."
REPRESENTATIVE DIBERT responded by asking Mr. Epstein whether he
had worked with rural villages when creating his studies.
MR. EPSTEIN replied, "The people I talk to from those villages
are skewed; more reach out to me because they agree with me than
disagree with me." He said that he is a "believer in progress,
human capability and adaptation" and argued that "the more
primitive a lifestyle is, the more it will be threatened by
progress."
1:57:23 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER opined that the presentation is factual
and said that he is suspicious of the science that proves the
need to leave fossil fuels in the past. He said he was
concerned that people want to benefit from fossil fuels but not
accept their downsides .
1:59:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MEARS shared her agreeance that access to energy
has a lot of benefits and said that it doesn't make sense to
avoid green energy infrastructure just to stick to the status
quo of fossil fuel energy. She argued that energy
diversification is the biggest step that any community could
take toward energy security.
2:00:58 PM
MR. EPSTEIN said that "energy freedom is the freedom to use the
most cost-effective form of energy" and it doesn't make sense to
force someone to use energy that they can't afford. He opined
that there has been "hostility" toward Alaska's oil policy and
urged the committee to take action to stop the "oppression" from
the Federal Government.
MR. EPSTEIN thanked the committee for its time.
2:04:34 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:04 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| AE Fossil Future 5.3.23.pdf |
HRES 5/3/2023 1:00:00 PM |