Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
03/24/2023 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission | |
| HB104 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 104 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 24, 2023
1:04 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Tom McKay, Chair
Representative George Rauscher, Vice Chair (via teleconference)
Representative Dan Saddler
Representative Jennie Armstrong (via teleconference)
Representative Donna Mears
Representative Maxine Dibert
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Josiah Patkotak
Representative Kevin McCabe
Representative Stanley Wright
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Mike Cronk
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Gregory C. Wilson Kenai Peninsula
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 104
"An Act relating to expedited timber sales."
- HEARD & HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 104
SHORT TITLE: EXPEDITED TIMBER SALES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) CRONK
03/08/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
03/08/23 (H) RES
03/20/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/20/23 (H) Heard & Held
03/20/23 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/24/23 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
GREGORY C. WILSON, PhD, Appointee
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Alaska Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic
Development
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Alaska Oil
and Gas Conservation Commission.
DAN SEAMOUNT, representing self
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of Dr. Gregory C.
Wilson's appointment to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation
Commission.
TESSA AXELSON, Executive Director
Alaska Forest Association
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in general support of HB 104.
MARANDA HAMME, Tongass Forest Program Manager
Southeast Alaska Conservation Council
Klawock, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 104.
JOE YOUNG, Owner
Young's Timber Inc.
Tok, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 104.
PARKER RITTGERS, Wood-Mizer Alaska
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that several things in HB 104 are
worthy of consideration.
CHERYL FECKO, representing self
Craig, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 104.
ANDREW TRAXLER, Owner
Papoose Milling
Big Lake, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 104.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:04:26 PM
CHAIR TOM MCKAY called the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting to order at 1:04 p.m. Representatives Mears, Dibert,
Saddler, Armstrong (via teleconference), and McKay were present
at the call to order. Representative Rauscher arrived (via
teleconference) as the meeting was in progress.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):
^Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
1:05:37 PM
CHAIR MCKAY announced that the first order of business would be
the confirmation hearing for the governor's appointee to the
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.
1:05:56 PM
GREGORY C. WILSON, PhD, Appointee, Alaska Oil and Gas
Conservation Commission (AOGGC), Alaska Department of Commerce,
Community, and Economic Development, testified as appointee to
the geology seat on the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation
Commission. He noted he was appointed in September 2022 to
finish the term of Daniel Seamount, Jr. and has now been
reappointed to his own term. He related that he has a PhD in
geology from the University of Wisconsin and over 31 years of
experience as a petroleum geologist and manager with ARCO
Alaska, Inc., Phillips Alaska, Inc., and ConocoPhillips Alaska,
Inc. Serving as the AOGCC Geology Commissioner, he stated, is a
way for him to translate his experiences and skills to an
opportunity to serve the people of Alaska. He said the role is
of critical importance to the issues of public safety,
environment, conservation of resource, revenue, and now climate.
DR. WILSON detailed his extensive work experience that has made
him familiar with all the fields on the North Slope, including
identifying the Willow Field, working the Kuparuk Field's
development, and exploring and delineating the Alpine Field. He
further detailed his onshore and offshore management experience
and said he retired in 2022. He acknowledged that challenges
would arise in the coming years, such as an evolving landscape
of operators and always evolving technology, but that that is
what makes AOGCC an exciting agency in which to be a part. He
added that if Willow and Pika move ahead, Alaska will have its
chance at a bridge in the economy that comes next, and he wants
to be a part of using that time wisely.
1:12:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER inquired about the issues that Dr. Wilson
anticipates he will be addressing over the next three years as
AOGCC's geology commissioner.
DR. WILSON replied that AOGCC's routine business is processing
the permits for drilling and for the sundry notices, which are
the industry's bread and butter in Alaska. He said he
anticipates that future issues before the AOGCC will include the
occasional resolution of disputes, such as issues of correlative
rights, aquifer protection, well spacing, and conservation of
resource. A big issue, he continued, will be if there is
offtake of gas from Prudhoe and Point Thomson on the North Slope
and determining what is the best conservation of resource and
the amount of gas offtake.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER offered his understanding that Dr.
Wilson's work at AOGCC deals with the subsurface but asked
whether Dr. Wilson is willing to provide his thoughts on the
quality, age, and capacity of the above ground infrastructure
that makes the subsurface development possible.
DR. WILSON responded that that is beyond his expertise. He said
the North Slope's aging infrastructure does impact the AOGCC in
that it requires more vigilance as AOGCC looks at sundry work on
the existing aging wells and the condition of each of the wells.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER requested Dr. Wilson's thoughts about the
likelihood of ease for the State of Alaska to obtain primacy for
Class 6 injection wells on the North Slope should [the
legislature] proceed with the governor's carbon capture and
sequestration efforts.
DR. WILSON qualified that "ease" is not the word he wants to
use, but that it is doable. He related that a framework Alaska
can operate within has been set by North Dakota, Wyoming, and
others currently in the queue. He further related that expert
Kevin Connors has talked AOGCC through the North Dakota
regulations to satisfy the Environmental Protection Agency's
(EPA's) requirements. So, he continued, AOGCC believes that
working closely with the states that have achieved primacy is
doable and will take less time than it did for those states.
1:16:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG requested Dr. Wilson's perspective on
the recent ConocoPhillips gas leak.
DR. WILSON answered that he recused himself from yesterday's
meeting and will not be a part of future deliberations on the
[ConocoPhillips gas leak]. However, regarding such issues, he
advised that it's going to require close work between industry
and the AOGCC to identify potential problem intervals that may
not necessarily be quantifiable as pay at first look. Issues
can be identified based on the histories that are had, he
further advised, so that cementing operations and other barriers
of safety will prevent such issues from happening in the future.
1:17:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MEARS asked whether climate change is having an
impact on the North Slope's aging infrastructure with resulting
safety concerns.
DR. WILSON replied that currently the issue of melting of the
permafrost is more associated with the heat generated from the
wells, which is localized to the wells and all effort is made to
keep that heat from working its way out into the permafrost. In
a general sense, he continued, melting of the permafrost, should
it occur and as it occurs, is going to be an issue in
maintaining the integrity of the facilities and well bores on
the North Slope.
1:19:43 PM
CHAIR MCKAY requested Dr. Wilson to talk about Cook Inlet's gas
potential and his experience in Cook Inlet.
DR. WILSON responded that while he has never worked the field
operations in Cook Inlet, he is familiar with the Cook Inlet's
geology, gas fields, oil fields, and liquified natural gas (LNG)
facilities through field trips as part of his work with Phillips
and ConocoPhillips. As manager of operations and technology, he
continued, he had a role over all the data, including the
seismic data, owned by ConocoPhillips, and when ConocoPhillips
was divesting of its assets in the Cook Inlet area he was part
of the entitlement work for the seismic. He added that he is
keenly aware of Cook Inlet's role in employment opportunities,
heating homes, and generating electricity, and will do whatever
he can to see that issues are resolved and services not
disrupted in Southcentral Alaska.
1:22:56 PM
DAN SEAMOUNT, representing self, testified in support of Dr.
Gregory C. Wilson's appointment to the Alaska Oil and Gas
Conservation Commission. He said he recently retired after 22
years seated in the geologist chair on AOGCC. He stated that
Dr. Wilson is extremely qualified for the position given his
experience in oil and gas development, at least 23 years of
prior interactions with the AOGCC, and his knowledge of the
regulations, statutes, policies, and workings of the agency. He
urged that Dr. Wilson's appointment be advanced.
1:24:55 PM
CHAIR MCKAY stated that the House Resources Standing Committee
has reviewed the qualifications of the governor's appointee and
recommends that the following name be forwarded to a joint
session for consideration: Greg Wilson, Alaska Oil and Gas
Conservation Commission. He said that signing the report
regarding appointments to boards and commissions in no way
reflects an individual member's approval or disapproval of the
appointee, and the nomination is merely forwarded to the full
legislature for confirmation or rejection.
1:25:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER stated that [since he is attending via
teleconference] he cannot sign the committee report but does not
object to Dr. Wilson's name being advanced from committee.
HB 104-EXPEDITED TIMBER SALES
1:26:15 PM
CHAIR MCKAY announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 104, "An Act relating to expedited timber sales."
CHAIR MCKAY noted that his goal for today is to take public
testimony, get additional information from the administration,
and set the bill aside while working on a committee substitute
that will properly balance the management of the state's timber
resources for sustainable development, public safety, and
appropriate conservation.
CHAIR MCKAY opened public testimony on HB 104.
1:27:51 PM
TESSA AXELSON, Executive Director, Alaska Forest Association
(AFA), testified in general support of HB 104. She stated that
AFA is a trade organization with members across Alaska who have
an interest in the forest products industry. She said the
forest industry relies significantly on sales that are provided
by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR), Division of
Forestry (DOF). The supply of sales, she noted, allows the
industry to provide millions of dollars in communities across
Southeast Alaska through secondary and tertiary components of
the economy like transportation, freight costs, local grocers,
equipment suppliers, barge and tug operators, and stevedores.
Additionally, she continued, the industry provides year-round
jobs that provide direct benefit to communities. Ms. Axelson
further stated that the industry takes very seriously the
management of Alaska's forests to address fire concerns and
infestations, thereby managing for a healthy forest and
utilizing of dead and dying trees.
1:30:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER requested Ms. Axelson's perspective on
bill's provisions, as related to the kind of sales that would
first be applied, should the bill become law.
MS. AXELSON replied that the AFA board has not taken a formal
position on HB 104 regarding that component. She said AFA will
be developing specific responses to the bill in the coming week
and will get back to the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER inquired about the forest industry's
general attitude towards beetle killed timber, such as whether
it is a resource that should be exploited quickly.
MS. AXELSON responded that beetle kill is being seen in specific
locations in Alaska, such as the Kenai Peninsula where micro-
mill operators are utilizing some of that wood. She stated that
from the industry's perspective there is a need to address those
types of trees with those infestations because they do pose fire
risk in certain parts of the state.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER inquired about the Division of Forestry's
current speed, in general, in offering timber for sale without
HB 104.
MS. AXELSON answered that from the industry's perspective, the
division is working actively to move out sales based on the
division's current process. She said industry would like to see
longer-term sales provided so that it can meet the needs of its
customers. She further stated that industry would like for
there to be enough sales that are cleared through the internal
processes so that there are sales ready to move forward over the
long term and industry knows what those sales will be into the
future. The supply component is a critical issue for the
industry, she stressed, as the industry needs 18 to 32 months of
supply in advance to meet its needs. Ensuring speedy movement
by the division to follow its processes that get sales out in
the different regions is also important, she added.
1:33:57 PM
MARANDA HAMME, Tongass Forest Program Manager, Southeast Alaska
Conservation Council (SEACC), testified that SEACC's opposition
to HB 104 is based on three reasons. First, she related, HB 104
would allow state timber sales to be offered quickly in areas
deemed threatened or affected by fire, insects, or disease, yet
the bill doesn't specify or define the information or scientific
methods that are to be used to deem an area as threatened.
Second, she said, HB 104 would bypass public comment and give
the DNR commissioner ultimate discretion in deciding to expedite
timber sales in any area deemed threatened or affected, plus
there is no sales size limitation. Third, she pointed out,
Alaska already has a salvage sale law that provides for these
types of timber sales in a two-year window. Last year House
Bill 98 would have also eliminated important public processes,
she added, and HB 104 is just another bill that will bypass that
public comment process.
1:36:04 PM
JOE YOUNG, Owner, Young's Timber Inc., testified in support of
HB 104. He said Young's Timber has been in business since 1993
and has four types of sawmills with 12 employees producing a
wide range of value-added products. Three-year timber sale
contracts don't work for value-added producers, he stated,
because business planning and financing is almost impossible
unless producers can show they have a reliable, long-term timber
supply for replacing existing machines or financing expansions.
Each of Alaska's three forest regions, he maintained, are over
mature, dying, and dense, creating stressed out forests that
attract insects which kill the trees, causing fire danger
situations with associated fire suppression costs to the state.
Having HB 104 in the DNR commissioner's toolbox, he continued,
would expedite timber harvesting for forest health, protect
citizens from fire, reduce wildlife protection costs, and
provide a long-term reliable timber supply to Alaska's value-
added producers.
MR. YOUNG addressed Representative Saddler's earlier questions.
He related that currently when a timber sale is requested to be
put into the five-year plan, it takes almost four years before a
sale comes up. He further noted that a timber sale hasn't been
put up in the Tok area since 2019.
1:39:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER requested Mr. Young's view on the amount
of public input on timber sales now and whether Mr. Young
believes that under HB 104 there would be too much, not enough,
or just the right amount of opportunity for public comment on
expedited timber sales.
MR. YOUNG offered his belief that the public comment would stay
the same. He specified that the five-year schedule of timber
sale must first be put together, which takes time, then it goes
to the Tanana Valley State Forest Citizens' Advisory Committee
for approval, then it goes out for approval after the Tanana
Valley State Forest reviews it and asks for public comments, and
then it is out for another 30 days of public comment. Once the
best interest finding (BIF) is put together and put into the
Forest Land Use Plan (FLUP), he stated, it again goes out for
public comment. He said he therefore thinks the public has
plenty of time to review the schedule of five-year timber sales,
a process that must be done by law. His understanding of
expedited timber sales, he continued, is that it just jabs the
Division of Forestry to move a little bit faster.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER requested Mr. Young's opinion on whether
there is risk of allowing too much timber to be cut in Alaska.
MR. YOUNG answered he doesn't think so because the Tanana Valley
State Forest is not even at 10 percent of the allowable cut, so
a lot more harvesting could be done while staying within the
yearly allowable cut.
1:41:58 PM
PARKER RITTGERS, Wood-Mizer Alaska, testified that several
things in HB 104 are worthy of consideration, such as keeping
forest habitat healthy and reducing fire which translates into
property and personal safety. He said his business is directly
affected by the availability of timber for his customers that
are primarily private users, although in the past he has had
professional users. He noted that he is testifying from a tract
of land on Anchorage's Hillside that is being cleared to
mitigate fire danger and the timber used for lumber. He
maintained that a forest is kept healthy by ridding or
mitigating beetle damage so that habitat for beetles is moved
away. He related that a recent customer from a village near
Marshall, Alaska, told him that the cost for a sheet of plywood
for the new village is $130 and the cost for an eight-foot-long
two-by-four is $65. That area is rich in timber, he continued,
and in his opinion that timber should be made available to the
corporation and to residents for personal use. He concluded by
saying that excellent testimony has already been heard on the
other good parts of HB 104.
1:45:05 PM
CHERYL FECKO, representing self, testified in opposition to HB
104. She expressed her worry that if HB 104 becomes law as
written, the public will have little or no opportunity to
comment on expedited state timber sales. She said she
understands the need to protect property from forest fires or to
prevent the spread of serious disease epidemics but feels the
bill's intent is to bypass the public process to access timber
outside of other state harvest programs and to shortcut other
agency input and review. She stated she would like to know what
consultation and coordination there would be agencies like the
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and the Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC) to ensure that critical salmon
and wildlife habitat will be left intact. Ms. Fecko pointed out
that Prince of Wales Island is already a fractured landscape
from decades of intensive timber harvest and from a patchwork of
land ownership. She submitted that HB 104 may not be needed to
accomplish what the state has in mind since Alaska has salvage
laws that should apply to these conditions without sacrificing
public input, habitat degradation, and the time that is needed
to do things for the right reason.
1:47:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said his reading of the bill is that
[expedited timber sales] do not obviate or bypass any of the
existing protections for forest management, streams, wildlife
habitat, or public comment. He requested Ms. Fecko to point out
where in the bill it does that.
MS. FECKO replied that HB 104 leaves so much discretion to the
commissioner once a timber sale is thought to be not necessarily
impacted by fire, disease, or infestation, but the "threat of."
With that being determined by just the commissioner alone, she
continued, she fears that "threat" is not clearly defined.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said he doesn't see any language in the
bill that would obviate continuing any existing protections of
habitat, public comment, or other concerns raised by Ms. Fecko.
1:49:55 PM
ANDREW TRAXLER, Owner, Papoose Milling, testified in support of
HB 104. He stated he has never met Mr. Young but would like to
shake his hand for his testimony. Mr. Traxler said he would
like to add to Mr. Young's testimony by saying that the
[legislature's] protection is needed since many sawmill business
owners in Alaska are small, mom-and-pop businesses. He argued
that everybody wants more and more of the public comment period
and small businesses cannot compete in the timber sale process
where lobbyists and highly funded groups "spread so much
disinformation about our forest to bring out the public against
us." This expedited process, he continued, may make it feasible
for small businesses. He added that he would like to see the
timber sales extended to a longer timeframe to provide
businesses with stability in knowing that they will have logs
for another year.
MR. TRAXLER, in response to Chair McKay, stated his appreciation
for legislators trying to make it so [small businesses] can
produce for the industry. He related that due to the present
lack of log supply, he produces about 30 percent of what he is
asked to do.
1:52:21 PM
CHAIR MCKAY, after ascertaining that there was no one else who
wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 104.
CHAIR MCKAY opined that Alaska's forests are natural resources
and there is a constitutional obligation to utilize, develop,
and conserve those resources for the maximum benefit of Alaska's
people. He said the challenge is balancing the responsibilities
to develop and conserve, which are opposite goals and why timber
harvest is done according to the sustainable yield principle.
He maintained that HB 104 is not a timber grab, but rather an
attempt to strike balance between over-development and over-
conservation. He said he fears the state is currently in over-
conservation because the state isn't providing an adequate
amount of supply to sustain and actively manage the forest. He
assured the public that the legislative intent of HB 104 is for
the state's resources to be managed appropriately. He announced
that HB 104 is being held over until a [proposed] committee
substitute is ready to discuss.
1:54:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MEARS commented that "the rub" is that public
testimony has come prior to the expected substantial committee
substitute. She asked the chair whether she is correct that the
public can still provide written testimony via e-mail.
CHAIR MCKAY answered that he believes this is correct and that
e-mails can be sent to [email protected].
[HB 104 was held over.]
1:55:35 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:55 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 3.1.23 Greg Wilson AOGCC Resume_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/24/2023 1:00:00 PM |
|
| WilsonHouseesources.docx |
HRES 3/24/2023 1:00:00 PM |
|
| HB 104 Letters of Opposition.pdf |
HRES 3/24/2023 1:00:00 PM |
HB 104 |