Legislature(2017 - 2018)CAPITOL 106
03/31/2017 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board|| Alaska Board of Game | |
| HB134 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 129 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | HB 134 | TELECONFERENCED | |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 31, 2017
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Andy Josephson, Co-Chair
Representative Geran Tarr, Co-Chair
Representative Harriet Drummond
Representative Justin Parish
Representative Chris Birch
Representative DeLena Johnson
Representative George Rauscher
Representative David Talerico
Representative Chris Tuck (alternate)
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Dean Westlake, Vice Chair
Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
Henry D. Tiffany IV Fairbanks, Alaska
Thomas H. Sullivan, Jr. Anchorage, Alaska
James A. "Tom" Atkins Anchorage, Alaska
- CONFIRMATIONS(S) ADVANCED
Board of Game
Ted H. Spraker Soldotna, Alaska
Karen L. Linnell Glennallen, Alaska
Thomas K. Lamal Fairbanks, Alaska
Lawrence J. "Larry" Van Daele, PhD Kodiak, Alaska
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 134
"An Act relating to the composition of the Board of Game.'
- MOVED CSHB 134(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 129
"An Act relating to sport fishing, hunting, or trapping
licenses, tags, or permits; relating to penalties for certain
sport fishing, hunting, and trapping license violations;
relating to restrictions on the issuance of sport fishing,
hunting, and trapping licenses; creating violations and amending
fines and restitution for certain fish and game offenses;
creating an exemption from payment of restitution for certain
unlawful takings of big game animals; relating to commercial
fishing violations; allowing lost federal matching funds from
the Pittman - Robertson, Dingell - Johnson/Wallop - Breaux
programs to be included in an order of restitution; adding a
definition of 'electronic form'; and providing for an effective
date."
- SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 134
SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF GAME MEMBERSHIP
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOSEPHSON
02/20/17 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/20/17 (H) RES
03/20/17 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/20/17 (H) Heard & Held
03/20/17 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/22/17 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/22/17 (H) Heard & Held
03/22/17 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/24/17 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/24/17 (H) Scheduled but Not Heard
03/31/17 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
HENRY D. TIFFANY IV, Appointee
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board.
THOMAS H. SULLIVAN, JR., Appointee
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board.
JAMES A. "TOM" ATKINS, Appointee
Big Game Commercial Services Board
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board.
TED H. SPRAKER, Appointee
Board of Game
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
KAREN L. LINNELL, Appointee
Board of Game
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Glennallen, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
THOMAS K. LAMAL, Appointee
Board of Game
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
LAWRENCE J. "LARRY" VAN DAELE, PhD, Appointee
Board of Game
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Game.
GARY STEVENS
Chugiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the confirmations of Ted Spraker
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.
SAM ROHRER, President
Alaska Professional Hunters Association
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Ted Spraker,
Larry Van Daele, and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of
Game, and supported the confirmations of Henry Tiffany, Tom
Atkins, and Thomas Sullivan, appointees to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board.
ROBERT CAYWOOD
Chugiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the confirmations of Ted Spraker
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.
LEWIS BRADLEY
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Tom Lamal,
appointee to the Board of Game.
MARY BISHOP
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the confirmation of Karen Linnell,
appointee to the Board of Game.
NICOLE BORROMEO, Executive Vice President & General Counsel
Alaska Federation of Natives
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Ted Spraker,
Karen Linnell, and Larry Van Daele, appointees to the Board of
Game.
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director
Resident Hunters of Alaska
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Tom Lamal
and Larry Van Daele, appointees to the Board of Game.
BRUCE CAIN
Glennallen, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Karen
Linnell and Ted Spraker, appointees to the Board of Game.
JESSE BJORKMAN
Nikiski, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Ted Spraker,
appointee to the Board of Game.
AARON BLOOMQUIST
Copper Center, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of all the
appointees to the Board of Game and Big Game Commercial Services
Board.
RICHARD BISHOP
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the confirmation of Karen Linnell,
appointee to the Board of Game.
ROD ARNO, Executive Director
Alaska Outdoor Council
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed the confirmation of Karen Linnell,
appointee to the Board of Game.
BEN STEVENS, Representative
Hunting and Fishing Task Force
Tanana Chiefs Conference
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
JAMES LOW
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Thomas Lamal,
appointee to the Board of Game.
APRIL FERGUSON, Senior Vice President
Bristol Bay Native Corporation
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Ted Spraker
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.
FREDRICK OLSEN, JR.
Kasaan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
CARRIE STEVENS
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
RICHARD PETERSON
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
WILBUR BROWN, Second Vice President
Alaska Native Brotherhood Grand Camp
Camp President, Sitka Local Camp
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
DON HORRELL
Glennallen, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmations of Karen
Linnell and Ted Spraker, appointees to the Board of Game.
JESSICA BLACK
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported the confirmation of Karen
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:05:13 PM
CO-CHAIR ANDY JOSEPHSON called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Representatives
Josephson, Tarr, Talerico, Rauscher, Johnson, Birch, Parish, and
Tuck (alternate) were present at the call to order.
Representative Drummond arrived as the meeting was in progress.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING (S):
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):
^Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
^Alaska Board of Game
1:06:18 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the first order of business
would be the confirmation hearings on appointees to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board and the Board of Game. He began with
the Big Game Commercial Services Board.
1:06:45 PM
HENRY D. TIFFANY IV, Appointee, Big Game Commercial Services
Board, testified he has served on this board for the past four
years, so this would be a re-appointment. He said he was born
in Fairbanks and raised primarily in Anchorage and Juneau, and
that he moved back to Alaska about 30 years ago. A licensed big
game guide and outfitter, this year will be his 29th year as a
professional guide. He stated that serving on this board is a
challenging responsibility, but that it continues to be an honor
and learning experience. There are very few ways within the big
commercial services industry to give back to the community, the
industry, and the state, he continued, and that is the reason
why he originally requested to become more involved in the
process and which eventually led to his being nominated to serve
on the Big Game Commercial Services Board. He acknowledged it
can be a thankless job, but said it is important to the
industry, to the State of Alaska, and to the resources, and to
all those who benefit and enjoy them.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked whether Mr. Tiffany believes that state
lands should have a concession system in a manner similar to
federal lands.
MR. Tiffany replied yes, he firmly believes that that would be
in the best interests of the state and of the resources. He
said he is familiar with the Guide Concession Program (GCP),
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), and was present,
involved, and at the meetings when the GCP was initially
proposed and throughout its integration and then later its
development. It is probably one of the single greatest things
that could happen in the foreseeable future to benefit the
resources, the animals, the land, and the guides involved in the
big game commercial services industry, he continued, and more
importantly the resident and nonresident hunting public.
1:09:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH noted he is unfamiliar with the demands of
the Big Game Commercial Services Board. He inquired as to the
amount of time involved in serving on this board and how often
the board meets per twelve-month period.
MR. TIFFANY responded that he was first asked to serve on the
Board of Game, but that he respectfully declined because of the
time commitment involved in serving on that board. Since his
attitude is to do everything to the best of his ability, he felt
at the time that either his service on the Board of Game, or his
family, or his business would suffer if he were to accept. He
was then asked to serve on the Big Game Commercial Services
Board, which he was interested in doing because it is less of a
time commitment, he said, but he was very surprised to find how
much of a time commitment it requires. Nine members serve on
the board and some do more than others. It is difficult to
average the number of hours, he continued, because many months
of the year he is in the field working and not directly involved
with the board.
MR. TIFFANY explained the board has two big public meetings per
year in March and December, as well a teleconference in July.
He said the chairman has been scheduling teleconferences more
regularly than in the past, and currently the board has been
having teleconferences every two months to deal with
disciplinary actions and other executive session matters. He
estimated he spends about three to four hours a week throughout
the year working directly on [board matters]. As the two guide
members on the board, he and board chairman Kelly Vrem review
(redacted) cases brought to the board by the investigator and
offer sanction recommendations to the investigator who in turn
passes them along to the respondents and/or their attorneys.
Beside the three normal public meetings and the three or four
executive session-type meetings, he continued, quite a bit of
work is done behind the scenes related to sanction
recommendations and fielding calls from people in the industry
as well as concerned people outside the industry. It is more
time consuming than he initially anticipated, he reiterated, but
now that he has done it for four years he understands it, and it
is just one of the sacrifices a person makes when serving on a
board one cares about.
1:14:31 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH asked whether the board's teleconferences
are held at Legislative Information Office (LIO) facilities or
outside LIO facilities.
MR. TIFFANY answered that to date the teleconferences have not
been though LIO facilities, but have been orchestrated and set
up by the board's division.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH noted that HB 129 is before the committee.
He said the bill is by request of the governor and includes a
stipulation he is leery of. He surmised Mr. Tiffany is aware of
the penalties imposed for the unlawful taking of large game
animals from bears to wolverines. He explained that Section
17(b) of HB 129 would amend this law to say that a defendant may
not be ordered to pay restitution if the defendant promptly
reports it to the department or to a state law enforcement
officer engaged in fish or wildlife protection and surrenders to
the department all salvaged portions of the animal. He
requested Mr. Tiffany's thoughts on this proposed amendment.
MR. TIFFANY replied he has not read HB 129 and cannot speak for
the board, but based on the aforementioned synopsis he is
willing to give his personal thoughts. As a member of the Big
Game Commercial Services Board and as someone who has reviewed a
great many cases, he has observed and learned how clear it is
that honesty truly is the best policy. When someone is
forthright, forthcoming, admits to his or her mistake, and
doesn't try to hide it, it is a benefit to everyone. No one is
perfect, he noted, at some point in life every person has made
mistakes and probably will in the future.
MR. TIFFANY stated violations should never be applauded, but
when someone comes forward to the Alaska Wildlife Troopers and
admits guilt of a violation, their willingness and cooperation
in coming forward should be applauded. The more that is
demonstrated, the more willing individuals might be to step
forward. The animals belong to the State of Alaska and to all
the people, he said, so it is unclear why it would be argued in
HB 129 that no restitution to the state would be appropriate
given that significant resources in many different departments
are utilized to support wildlife habitat and research to
maintain viable, sustainable populations. He said if he were
asked to vote today on HB 129, and based on the aforementioned
synopsis and having not read the bill, he guesses he would not
support that particular clause. However, he added, it is
possible that the rest of HB 129 is good but on that particular
issue, he said he thinks that restitution is due to the state.
1:19:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO observed from Mr. Tiffany's application
that he is on the board of directors for a small family business
called Control Concepts. He asked whether this business has to
do with big game or is something completely different.
MR. TIFFANY responded that Control Concepts manufactures
primarily [indisc. moving of microphone] for conveyer belts
and sonic air horns for agricultural and industrial industries.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO inquired where Mr. Tiffany has done most
of his professional guiding within the state.
MR. TIFFANY answered that over the last 28 years he has been
fortunate enough to experience most all the major regions of
Alaska. He said he is familiar, comfortable, and experienced in
Southeast Alaska, Central Alaska, the Interior, the Brooks
Range, Northwest Alaska, Southwest Alaska, the Alaska Peninsula,
and Kodiak Island. During the past 20 years, the majority of
his time has been spent on the Alaska Peninsula, a bit on Kodiak
Island, the Interior, and the Brooks Range.
1:22:03 PM
THOMAS H. SULLIVAN, JR., Appointee, Big Game Commercial Services
Board, testified he has lived in Alaska for thirty-four years,
four in Fairbanks, and the rest in Anchorage. He retired from
the U.S. Air Force after twenty-six years, with five of those in
law enforcement. He currently works for the State of Alaska and
plans to retire later this year or early next spring. He said
he has three college degrees in management, business
administration, and computers, and is an information technology
manager and data network engineer by trade. His lifelong love
of hunting and fishing is why he came to Alaska. While he is
not a guide and has never worked in the industry, he pointed out
that he has hunted many species in five other states and has
used guides and transporters in three different states, and
therefore he understands the need for oversight of the industry.
MR. SULLIVAN said he has been a competitive shooter in pistol,
rifle, shotgun, and archery; a volunteer instructor with the
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) teaching the
Bowhunter Certification Course; and a Wildlife Conservation
Officer at Eielson Air Force Base. He has over 45 years of work
experience as a supervisor manager and project manager, he
continued, and is very detail oriented and good at analyzing
work processes and regulations and understanding their impacts
and costs. He further pointed out that he has much experience
in interpreting and applying regulations and laws. His work
experience with the State of Alaska includes budgets, personnel
issues, and information technology systems, and therefore he can
contribute to the board members' understanding in those areas.
Mr. Sullivan said he believes in the board's mission and is
happy for this opportunity to do volunteer work in the industry.
He added that this board, the Board of Fisheries, and the Board
of Game interest him because they deal with something he cares a
great deal about. He requested the committee give him a chance
to serve on the board.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON observed that Mr. Sullivan's application
talks about how king salmon were jumping in the Kenai River in
1980 and that it would take really tough decisions to ever
return to those days. He requested Mr. Sullivan to explain what
he is meaning by these statements.
MR. SULLIVAN replied that to ever return to that level the
number of king salmon in that river would have to increase
significantly and probably the way to do that would be to
restrict taking of king salmon in some way. He said he doesn't
have the data to do that analysis, so ADF&G biologists would
have to do it. He further stated that a lot of environmental
factors are contributing to this as well. He related his
experience in the Interior where restrictions were put on
fishing for grayling. Everyone hated and complained about it,
but within a couple years everyone was happy because the numbers
and size of fish came back. While he doesn't know if that can
happen with salmon, he would love to see it, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH observed that Mr. Sullivan answered yes on
his application to the question asking whether he or anyone in
his family could be affected financially by decisions to be made
by the board to which he is applying.
MR. SULLIVAN responded that if he did that it was a mistake. He
said he does not have any relatives or family members that have
anything to do with the board.
1:26:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked whether Mr. Sullivan believes the
number of board members should be increased from seven to nine.
MR. SULLIVAN pointed out that the Big Game Commercial Services
Board is already comprised of nine members.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked what unfinished work Mr. Sullivan
would like to complete that he was unable to do during his
previous term.
MR. SULLIVAN answered that this is his first appointment to the
board and has only been on the board since March 1.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked what Mr. Sullivan would like to
accomplish while on the board.
MR. SULLIVAN replied he would like to help with and accomplish
some organizational things over the next year. He would like
for the board to work on and simplify many of the regulations.
The board is in the process of re-doing the examinations for
assistant guides and guides, and he would like to be a part of
that. The biggest thing is trying to remediate is the debt that
this board has. He said he is looking forward to working with
the board and getting some of these things resolved.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO observed from Mr. Sullivan's application
that he used to live in Fairbanks, presumably stationed at
Eielson Air Force Base. He inquired how long Mr. Sullivan lived
in the Interior.
MR. SULLIVAN confirmed he was stationed at Eielson Air Force
Base for four years and then the Air Force moved him to
Anchorage. He said he loved being in Fairbanks, but the winter
of 1989 convinced him to move south.
1:29:39 PM
JAMES A. "TOM" ATKINS, Appointee, Big Game Commercial Services
Board, testified he is a current member of the board having
served for about four years, and now he is re-applying. A
resident of Alaska for forty-six years and retired construction
electrician, he said he has been flying airplanes in Alaska for
almost forty years. He has a small air taxi business and
started out in the guiding industry as a packer, then went to
work as an assistant guide, then a class A assistant guide, and
then a registered guide. He no longer guides because the years
have caught up with him, he said, so now he just flies
airplanes. He added that it has been a privilege to work on the
board and the biggest thing is that many of the guides are
trying to understand all the rules and regulations.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON noted that the Big Game Commercial Services
Board has had a substantial deficit in its fees collection and
has been the subject of a number of committee meetings, not in
terms of the substance of what the board does, but in terms of
the board funding itself. He asked whether Mr. Atkins would
like to share how that happened and what the remedy might be.
MR. ATKINS replied he has been involved with the board for about
four years. He said the board is very aware of the debt and
there are different stories on how this came to be. The board
was sunset for a while, he noted, and part of the debt came
about during that sunset period. At this time the board has a
very good investigative staff, plus the guides and transporters
have doubled a lot of their fees. The debt is getting paid down
and the hope is to have it paid down by the deadline. He
advised that it is not a real profitable business unless a
person hits it big time. Many of the guides are small guides,
he was one of them for several years, and these small guides are
getting hit hard with all these fees. However, he continued,
they are dedicated to the job they do and like what they do.
The board is doing its best to get out of debt and stay intact
to look after its membership.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK stated he has known Mr. Atkins for most of
his life and Mr. Atkins has been a "standup" guide. He said Mr.
Atkins makes solid decisions after considering everybody else's
concerns and rather than concentrating on what's good, Mr.
Atkins is always standing up for what's best. He said he thinks
committee members will all be pleased with Mr. Atkins' re-
appointment.
1:34:24 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON turned attention to confirmation hearings on
appointees to the Board of Game. He advised the committee would
take public testimony on the appointees to both the Board of
Game and the Big Game Commercial Services Board following the
testimony of the appointees to the Board of Game.
1:34:46 PM
TED H. SPRAKER, Appointee, Board of Game, testified he lives in
Soldotna and is retired from 28 years of working as a wildlife
biologist with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G).
He said he was born in Louisiana, raised in Wyoming, and
graduated from the University of Wyoming with a Bachelor's
degree in Wildlife Management in 1970 and a Masters degree in
Range Management in 1973. As a college student his dream career
was to move to Alaska and work as a wildlife biologist for the
state. He applied for every state job and even some federal
jobs that were available, he said. About a month after
graduation he was offered a three-month job with the U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service in Southeast Alaska and from there he has
never looked back. That job led to several more temporary jobs
and then in 1974 he was offered a permanent position with ADF&G.
MR. SPRAKER said his career with ADF&G was very rewarding. He
worked during a time when the department was growing and
developing the different methodologies for capturing animals,
determining survey techniques, and estimating populations.
Additionally, one of his most valuable lessons was working with
the public due to there being five advisory committees on the
Kenai Peninsula. He retired from ADF&G in June 2002, was
appointed to the Board of Game in January 2003 by Governor Frank
Murkowski, and has been re-appointed by governors Murkowski,
Palin, Parnell, and Walker. If confirmed, this will be his
sixth and final term on the Board of Game, he said. He served
as the vice chairman for two terms and is currently serving as
the chairman. He is 68 years old, he noted, and while he enjoys
being on the board and has the time to keep up with the demands,
after one more term it will be time to "hang it up" and complete
45 years of serving in the wildlife management business in
Alaska. He has thoroughly enjoyed being part of the Board of
Game process, he added, and he hopes to serve one more term to
give back what he can to the state that has given so much to him
and his family.
1:39:59 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON recalled that at this year's Board of Game
meeting in Fairbanks, Mr. Spraker advocated for a proposal that
would establish land-and-shoot programs for wolves in eight
[game management units]. He asked whether the data on wolf
numbers supported the land-and-shoot program that Mr. Spraker
advocated.
MR. SPRAKER replied that historically Alaska had land-and-shoot
available until a ballot measure in 1996. Before that time [the
board] really didn't get too involved. While there were some
predator control programs, the land-and-shoot [program] pretty
much took care of it. There is so much contention about
predator control, he said. Going back to land-and-shoot over
the eight selected areas, not the whole state, could allow doing
away with some predator control efforts, he maintained.
Predator control costs ADF&G a tremendous amount in staff time
and in actual dollars because of the high standards the board
holds the department to before adopting a predator program.
Going back to what was had in the 1970's to the 1990's,
especially in those areas that produce a lot of game and where a
lot of people in the state are interested in hunting, could
probably allow moving away from some of these predator control
costs.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON offered his understanding that at a recent
Board of Game meeting in Bethel the local advisory council
opposed the wolf predator control program there, but that Mr.
Spraker advocated it. He requested Mr. Spraker to describe how
that unfolded.
MR. SPRAKER responded that throughout his career with ADF&G and
his time on the Board of Game he has always supported an active
management program that sometimes includes predator control. He
said he is very strong on the science end of it and that the
board denies more predator control programs than it authorizes
because it doesn't have all the science. As far as the predator
control issue discussed in Bethel, if the science supports and
demonstrates that there is a need for a temporary reduction in
the impact caused by predators he has been very supportive of
that across the state.
1:43:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested Mr. Spraker's opinion on
[proposed HB 105] that would expand the [Denali National Park
and Preserve] area as far as the taking of wolves.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON clarified [HB 105] would not expand Denali
National Park and Preserve because [the state] cannot do that.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER, correcting his statement, said
[proposed HB 105] would [expand] a buffer zone for wolves and
requested Mr. Spraker's thoughts on this idea. He further said
the bill would stop the taking of wolves in an area around the
park and asked whether Mr. Spraker knows why no wolves are there
right now.
MR. SPRAKER answered he is familiar with [proposed] HB 105. He
recalled that when he first came on the Board of Game in 2003
the buffer had been in place for a couple years. In about 2005
he voted for it to stay in place, but not because he thought it
made good sense from a biological standpoint or really protected
wolves. Rather, he thought it was good to leave it alone
because it was already in place, it recognized the needs of a
lot of people who were concerned about the buffer, and
recognized that the board needs to deal with and represent all
voices in the state. Then it came back, he said, and the board
put a moratorium on it for six years. When it came back in 2010
he had the same feelings that from a biological standpoint it
didn't serve its purpose because, based on his work across the
state with capturing, monitoring, and tracking wolves, wolves
are not contained. Wolves will seek out places where there is
prey and other wolves and they do not always stay in the same
place. The 2010 vote was split 3-4 and again he felt the
sleeping dog should be left alone because it satisfied quite a
few people. There were certainly a lot of people disgusted with
it, he noted, and so the board did away with it in 2010. It
came back, and the board put another moratorium on it.
MR. SPRAKER continued, saying the buffer again came back
recently and the board voted it down unanimously. The reason
for the vote, he explained, was that when the National Park
Service was last before the board it reported that about 49
wolves were in the park, but this year the park has 77 wolves.
Another interest the board had was the revenue, he noted. The
board heard concerns about lost revenues because wolves weren't
being seen. However, the [National Park Service] reported that
visitation went from about 400,000 visitors several years ago to
nearly 600,000 currently. So, he said, with that information
before him he was unwilling, this time, to support a buffer.
MR. SPRAKER advised that he thinks this issue has moved beyond
the scope of the Board of Game and probably needs a legislative
fix to solve it for a long term. For quite a while, he said, he
has been suggesting that there be some sort of equitable trade
either in land or like-kind opportunities. With the increase in
lands to the national parks and preserves and to the U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service, about 25 percent of the sheep hunting in
the state was lost. This issue could be solved, and the Denali
buffer addressed, he posited, by negotiating at a much higher
level than the Board of Game to make some sort of trade. It is
a complicated question the board has struggled with for the
entire time he has been a member, he said, and he doesn't see
any way out other than some sort of equitable trade.
1:48:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH related that the statute establishing the
Board of Game states that the members "shall be appointed on the
basis of interest in public affairs, good judgment, knowledge,
and ability in the field of action of the board, and with the
view of to provide diversity of interest and points of view in
the membership." He inquired whether Mr. Spraker feels that the
interests and points of view in the membership accurately
represent those of the general Alaska public for whom they are
the designees.
MR. SPRAKER replied that that changes between different boards
and appointments. As of a month ago, he said, the Board of Game
had seven individuals, all of whom were hunters or trappers of
varying degrees - some are not very avid hunters and only one of
the two trappers is an avid trapper. At this time the board
doesn't have a member who is a nonconsumptive user, someone who
is not involved in actively hunting or trapping. In the past,
both before he became a member and while he has been a member,
he has seen situations where the board had members who were
solely there to not approve any hunting opportunities and he
does not think they were effective board members, although they
did get their points across.
MR. SPRAKER stated that the best example he can think of is Ben
Grussendorf who was chairman of the board when he was first
appointed and a former representative in the legislature.
During his early days on the board, he said, Ben and Jim Reardon
were his mentors. Ben was one of the best when it came to
representing the non-hunting public, he recalled. Ben was
always the person the public went to and talked with and Ben
brought their points forward. Ben was brilliant, did an
outstanding job of that, and really helped to balance the board.
But, Mr. Spraker continued, the other part is that when it came
to issues where the board had to dig down into the science, Ben
always sided with the science, even when it came to voting for
predator control. Ben had a soft spot in his heart for bears
and did not vote for predator removal and large seasons on
bears, but when it came to others like wolves Ben would evaluate
the science and more often than not Ben would vote for predator
control. Ben is the kind of guy needed on the board, Mr.
Spraker said. [Membership on the board] is beyond the board's
purview, however. It is something for the governor to select
and the legislature to confirm. A balanced board is needed, and
a person who probably doesn't involve himself or herself with
hunting would be a benefit to the board down the road.
1:53:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER cited the Constitution of the State of
Alaska, Article 8, Section 3, which states, "Wherever occurring
in their natural state, fish, wildlife, and waters are reserved
to the people for common use." He asked what obligations Mr.
Spraker, as a member of the board, sees himself as having under
that section and article.
MR. SPRAKER responded that the obligation is clear it is for
the maximum benefit of all users. He noted that Alaska has a
subsistence law and four species that have a resident priority
while the rest of the species don't have a resident priority.
Alaska has a system under its intensive management law that the
board deals with. Several issues must be brought before the
board on each decision. The board gives residents a priority in
almost every case, he said, and he has looked this up because
this question has come up several times. Of recent, there has
been quite an effort to eliminate nonresident hunters. The
board looks at all uses. In the situation of abundance called
"Tier I plus," he explained, there are enough animals to satisfy
the state's priority subsistence needs, which are first, plus
enough to satisfy the Tier I, which is all the residents, plus
enough to allow some nonresidents.
MR. SPRAKER said he has been supportive of the aforementioned
for two reasons. First, across the Lower 48 and the world
Alaska is regarded as unique for its hunting opportunities and
therefore he thinks Alaska should be a friendly state to outside
income that is brought in. Nonresidents pay over 70 percent of
the fees for licenses and tags, he pointed out. If nonresidents
were eliminated and Alaska residents had to pay everything, a
resident hunting license could cost hundreds or maybe even more
than a thousand dollars. Today a resident hunting license costs
about $35 and the reason it is so cheap is because nonresidents
pay for it. So, while he is a very strong advocate for
residents, he understands the entire equation and thinks
nonresident hunting is appropriate when populations are abundant
enough to allow for it. The second reason, he continued, is the
guiding industry, which last year brought $82 million to Alaska.
That money goes to everything from airplanes to hotels to
restaurants to guides to packers to families. So, nonresidents
have a place, but he recognizes that the residents have the
priority.
1:56:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired as to what Mr. Spraker's
ultimate goal is [in serving on the Board of Game].
MR. SPRAKER answered that his ultimate goal includes two big
issues that he would like to work on and see changed. The first
big issue before the Board of Game is the Western Arctic Caribou
Herd, which he thinks is going to be paramount soon. He said
the board is trying to manage that herd for 200,000 caribou.
The board's harvest objective is 12,000-20,000 since it has a
positive Customary and Traditional (C&T) finding because of the
subsistence in the Western Arctic. The amount of caribou
reasonably necessary for subsistence (ANS) is 8,000-12,000. All
these goals are being met right now, he said, but this
population has come down from 490,000 in 2003. While caribou
populations fluctuate, this downward trend is alarming. If the
herd drops below 200,000, the board will have to make some
pretty tough decisions on hunting opportunities in the Western
Arctic. Western Alaska, he pointed out, is the place where the
term "food security" is an everyday household concern. The
board starting to restrict these people because there are fewer
animals to fill their freezers is of dire concern to him as a
board member, so he wants to work with ADF&G to try to solve
some of those issues.
MR. SPRAKER said the second big issue before the board is
subsistence in Game Management Unit 13, an issue that started in
1983. A very strong Athabascan Native community is located at a
crossroads in the highway with Valdez on one end, the Matanuska-
Susitna Valley, Anchorage, and the Kenai Peninsula on the other
end, and Fairbanks on another end. As a result of road access,
about 80 percent of the people who hunt in the Nelchina Basin
don't live in the Nelchina Basin. The Athabascans are trying to
maintain their customary and traditional lifestyle like they've
done for thousands of years in the midst of all these people who
come into their area to hunt. The Board of Game just held a
special meeting in Glennallen, he related, where he thought the
board was going to do away with the community subsistence
harvest. The system the board put in place in 2009 has failed,
he said, it doesn't address the objectives that the board set
for it. It is time for the board to move on, which he has
stated publically in a meeting. There were a couple public
proposals to allow the board to do that, he related, and while
the board made a few good changes, it didn't get there. A
burdensome paperwork community subsistence harvest process still
exists that really doesn't reach the objectives it was designed
to reach.
2:01:05 PM
KAREN LINNELL, Appointee, Board of Game, testified her father is
from Chistochina on the north end of the Copper River and her
mother is from Kake in Southeast Alaska. She and her husband
hunt, fish, and gather within the Copper River Basin. She said
her primary source of income is from her employment as executive
director of the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource Commission (AITRC)
[which does business as the Copper River-Ahtna Inter-Tribal
Resource Conservation District]. The commission has a contract
with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to do some
wildfire protection plans for three communities, she said. The
commission also has a memorandum of agreement (MOA) with the
U.S. Department of Interior for cooperative management on
federal lands and this MOA allows for the formation of a
subsistence local advisory committee.
MS. LINNELL noted she serves as a board member to Ahtna,
Incorporated, an Alaska Native corporation that is a global
company providing construction and integrative services to both
government and private sector clients. She said she also serves
on two committees of the Ahtna board, the Ahtna Land Committee
and the Operations and Improvements Committee, neither of which
has any financial interest in any fish or game industry.
Additionally, she serves on the Wrangell-St. Elias Subsistence
Resource Commission (SRC) where her term ends December 2017.
The SRC, she explained, provides a venue for local subsistence
users to have input into the management of subsistence resources
within the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve.
MS. LINNELL recognized she may have conflicts from time to time,
but said she will continue to follow the procedure outlined in
Alaska Statute (AS) 39.52 if conflicts exist, as she has been
doing since appointed by the governor in November 2016. She has
been involved with the Board of Game and regulation process for
over a decade, she stated, first by providing public testimony
and then by getting involved in her local advisory committee.
She served as an officer on the Copper Basin Fish and Game
Advisory Committee, but resigned upon her appointment to the
Board of Game.
MS. LINNELL said she further served as chair of the Wildlife
Committee on the Governor's Transition Team, a committee that
consisted of a diverse group of users, including former
department staff, guides, subsistence users, and nonconsumptive
users. At the transition meeting, she said, committee members
were able to come to consensus in form of final report to the
governor. She offered her belief that healthy populations are
important to the sustainability of wildlife and anybody's uses,
and that this needs to be balanced before worrying about making
sure users have access. "I think that if we take care of the
resource, it will take care of us," she stated. This is
something she has been taught all her life, she explained, so
that is her goal.
2:05:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH acknowledged that Ms. Linnell has much
public support. Noting her involvement with Ahtna, he asked
whether Ms. Linnell would like to offer her perspective on the
[Klutina Lake Road public access and the revised statute of the
Mining Act of 1866 known as R.S. 2477, an issue that is ongoing
between Ahtna, the State of Alaska, and the U.S. Bureau of Land
Management].
MS. LINNELL replied she has nothing to offer that would pertain
to her position at the Board of Game. However, she continued,
private property rights are involved in this matter and access
would not be denied to the river, but control of the access
would be put in place. As the landowner Ahtna has the right to
protect that land and that river. Of concern to her is erosion
and damage to the fish habitat and spawning beds.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON observed from Ms. Linnell's application that
she believes in managing for abundance. He inquired as to how
Ms. Linnell sees that a balance can be struck so that
nonconsumptive users can view predators.
MS. LINNELL responded that a balance is needed. In serving on
the Wrangell-St. Elias SRC, she said, she has seen both sides of
the picture and choosing not to act by limiting access to the
land and having requirements to stay on specific trails limits
the access within that park. Also, she continued, there must be
a balance between the resources. Not acting and not managing
carnivores damages the population of ungulates; there is a fine
balance that needs to be walked. She recently read that on
Unimak Island no predator control has resulted in the muskox
declining to an all-time low that will take a long time to
rebound. She comes from a family of trappers, she noted, and
while she does not participate in it she sent her grandson out
to learn how. Trapping provides an income to her family
members, but the teaching that is passed on in traditional
trapping is that when too many females have been trapped, it's
time to stop so that life can be perpetuated. This teaching is
for all the animals that are being taken take what is needed
and nothing more. For example, Ms. Linnell continued, today is
the last day of caribou season and her permit is still open, but
her freezer is full, so she is not worried about filling her
permit and that is the way it should be.
2:10:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND, regarding the lack of predator control
on Unimak Island, stated that predator control must be different
when an island is involved as opposed the mainland where the
ungulates can roam and escape. She asked how Ms. Linnell would
have handled that had she been on the Board of Game at the time
predator control was considered for the island.
MS. LINNELL answered that a similar discussion was had at the
Copper Basin advisory committee. The committee looked at
population objectives along with the populations of carnivores,
the wolves, and determined that a trigger should be in place to
prevent one population from getting so low that it doesn't
survive. [It was decided that] if the moose dropped below
management objectives, predator control will be implemented and
then when the [moose] population rises to a certain level the
predator control will cease. It is used as a management tool,
she explained, and those kinds of things need to be taken into
consideration.
2:12:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER concluded that Ms. Linnell looks at the
issue of predator control as one where science is needed.
MS. LINNELL replied yes. Healthy populations, looking at the
terrain, and what the land can sustain are important parts of
that. Habitat is an important part of intensive management.
Other ways of doing intensive management include controlled
burns and mechanical manipulation to create additional habitat
for additional feedstock.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested Ms. Linnell's opinion on what
should be the ultimate goal of the Board of Game.
MS. LINNELL responded it is to have healthy populations and to
provide for reasonable opportunity for individuals and that
there is not one user group over another. There must be a
balance in that as well.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER cited the Constitution of the State of
Alaska, Article 8, Section 3, which states, "Wherever occurring
in their natural state, fish, wildlife, and waters are reserved
to the people for common use." He asked what obligations Ms.
Linnell, as a member of the board, sees herself as having under
that section and article.
MS. LINNELL answered that it is to provide and ensure that the
resources are sustainable and available for all users, both
consumptive and nonconsumptive.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested Ms. Linnell to explain how a
community subsistence harvest program works.
MS. LINNELL replied that a community subsistence harvest is a
permit that groups can apply for. She explained that originally
the Ahtna Tene Nene brought forward a proposal to form a
community hunt that consisted of members of the community who
weren't necessarily local by location. While folks from several
communities throughout the state participated in that hunt, they
were members of that community by connectivity. A lawsuit was
filed that said other groups might be eligible, and others have
applied and received eligibility to participate in that hunt.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired whether this program should be
improved as suggested by earlier testimony.
MS. LINNELL responded yes, she thinks the actions taken at the
recent board meeting may be a good step. There was a race to
get to 100 bulls at the beginning of the season, she said, and
now with implementation of the Tier II process within that
community subsistence hunt those permits can be doled out and
eliminate that need to be the first hunter out there to get
what's there. It will lend to an improved quality of hunt.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER acknowledged receiving many letters in
support of Ms. Linnell's appointment.
2:17:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON stated that she too has received many
letters in support of Ms. Linnell's appointment. She noted Ms.
Linnell's impressive track record of public service and asked
how Ms. Linnell will deal with possible conflicts of interest
given all the other organizations with which she is involved.
MS. LINNELL answered that her current employer is the Ahtna
Inter-Tribal Resource Commission. Upon her appointment to the
Board of Game she stepped down from the Copper Basin Fish and
Game Advisory Committee, she noted, and her term with the
Wrangell-St. Elias Subsistence Resource Commission expires
December [2017].
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested Ms. Linnell to elaborate on
the meaning of executive conflicts under AS 39.52.
MS. LINNELL replied that AS 39.52 outlines the procedure for
declaring a person's conflicts of interest and she intends to
abide by this statute.
2:19:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON surmised Ms. Linnell would not want to
step down from her employment to take a position on the Board of
Game, and inquired how Ms. Linnell anticipates dealing with any
conflicts of interest that might come up.
MS. LINNELL responded she isn't sure because the Ahtna Inter-
Tribal Resource Commission and Chitina Native Corporation only
recently signed the MOA with the U.S. Department of Interior to
create moose browse on corporation land. That's about it so
far, she said, given it is a new group that was formed in 2011.
Work has been done in partnership with ADF&G, Division of
Forestry, DNR, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, and the
National Park Service on a U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)
conservation innovation grant that is being completed this year.
This three-year grant, she explained, was for doing a vegetation
analysis across the landscape of the Ahtna traditional
territory, which goes from Cantwell to the Canadian border. All
available public mapping information has been put into one
database that is being shared with the aforementioned agencies.
That information was used to ground truthing the vegetation
analysis to enable better planning for habitat improvement on
Ahtna and Chitina Native corporation lands.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON requested Ms. Linnell to discuss how she
sees her association with both subsistence and game hunting.
MS. LINNELL answered that traditional stewardship of the land is
the main mission of the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource Commission.
Habitat improvement is being done to increase populations and
have healthy populations to provide food for Tribal members.
She said she thinks they can work hand-in-hand, being done on
private lands. Mechanical manipulation is being done to try to
increase forage for moose and possibly increase the population.
To date about 1,500 acres have been done and are being studied
to ensure that beetle infestation isn't being encouraged, and so
far, it hasn't. An increase in moose tracks as well as
carnivores has been seen in those areas, she said, so it seems
to be working. Not enough has been done yet to know if it has
had a significant impact for populations, but moose have moved
into the area.
2:24:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her understanding that Ms.
Linnell's employer is the Copper River-Ahtna Inter-Tribal
Resource Conservation District. She observed that a document in
the committee packet states Ms. Linnell has served as the chair
of the district since its inception in 2011.
MS. LINNELL pointed out that she put in her application for the
Board of Game three years ago, and since then she has become
employed by the district as its executive director and is no
longer the chair.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her further understanding that
Ms. Linnell's paid position is as the district's executive
director and that her time as the chair was not a paid position.
MS. LINNELL responded yes.
2:25:13 PM
THOMAS LAMAL, Appointee, Board of Game, informed the committee
he lives in Fairbanks with his wife. He said he was born and
raised in Wisconsin and came to Alaska in 1971 after graduating
from Regis College in Denver, Colorado, with B.A. and a teaching
certificate. He said he and his wife enjoy hunting, fishing,
retriever field trial training, rafting, cross country skiing,
flying, and gold mining. His various jobs have given him the
opportunity to see and live in several parts of Alaska. He
worked as a surveyor for the Division of Aviation in the early
1970's, giving him the opportunity to see the Seward Peninsula
and Western Alaska while surveying in bush airstrips. During
the pipeline era he worked staking the haul road from Yukon to
Prudhoe and then he worked on the mainline. Surveying also gave
him the opportunity to work on remote defense sites and
airstrips in the Brooks Range. He worked in Southeast Alaska on
a seine boat and fished from British Columbia to Juneau. He
driftnetted Bristol Bay and had a Lower Yukon drift permit. He
would drive his boat from Fairbanks to the mouth and drift for
king salmon, a 1,000-mile trip one way. He had a Norton Sound
herring permit out of Unalakleet. Mr. Lamal said he taught
school in Fairbanks for 16 years, which allowed him to keep his
commercial fishing active. Working in the school system gave
him the opportunity to facilitate the hunter education program
in the schools.
MR. LAMAL noted he is a life member of the National Rifle
Association (NRA) and the Alaska Wild Sheep Foundation. He said
he belongs to other outdoor groups, such as Ducks Unlimited,
Pheasants Forever, Fairbanks Retriever Club of which he was
president for six years, Resident Hunters of Alaska, Ruffed
Grouse Society, Alaska Airmen's Association, Alaska Waterfowl
Association, and Clear Sky Sportsmen's Association. He served
on the board of the Alaska Outdoor Council as well as the board
of Resident Hunters of Alaska, and was also a member of the
Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Council. He stated he is
honored that Governor Walker has asked him to serve on the Board
of Game. In the last 10-15 years he has been contemplating ways
to maintain the ability of Alaskans to have quality hunting
experiences and with this position he feels he can be effective
at maintaining this experience.
2:28:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER cited the Constitution of the State of
Alaska, Article 8, Section 3, which states, "Wherever occurring
in their natural state, fish, wildlife, and waters are reserved
to the people for common use." He asked what obligations Mr.
Lamal, as a member of the board, sees himself as having under
that section and article.
MR. LAMAL replied he would try to maintain optimum yields. When
he commercial fished in Bristol Bay there seemed to be a good
harvest year after year and the fishery was managed well. While
it is not the same, game needs to be managed with predator
control to keep the numbers on both sides healthy. If there is
lots of moose, there is going to be lots of wolves.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER surmised Mr. Lamal would be using
science for those methods.
MR. LAMAL responded yes. Recommendations are received from
ADF&G and the Board of Game has the opportunity to decide
whether it wants to accept or modify those recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked what Mr. Lamal's reasoning is for
accepting this seat on the Board of Game.
MR. LAMAL answered he would like to see Alaska residents have
quality hunting situations. He is a very strong advocate
through the hunter education program to carry on family
traditions, he said, and to make sure there are quality
experiences for youth. Without providing situations where youth
have an enjoyable outing they will not want to come back. It is
important to create that situation, so kids get involved and
stay involved.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER inquired as to how Mr. Lamal sees the
current situation and the future situation in regard to moose
and caribou in the Nelchina Basin.
MR. LAMAL replied he is not totally up to speed on this issue,
but he drew a caribou permit there last year and he's never seen
so many people. There is not a shortage of caribou in that
area, he noted, but he didn't happen to see any in the two times
he went. However, he did come home with a lot of blueberries.
2:32:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH asked whether, in Mr. Lamal's estimation,
the diversity of interest and points of view in the membership
of the Board of Game are an accurate reflection of the diversity
of interests and points of view in the general population for
whom he is a designee.
MR. LAMAL surmised the question is whether he would consider all
the different user groups.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH replied yes, including the user groups who
are not currently represented.
MR. LAMAL responded he respects all user groups, and respects
people who don't want to hunt themselves but might enjoy a moose
burger or maybe they're vegetarian. He related that he just
returned from a month-long photo and sightseeing safari in
Tanzania and he had no desire to go hunting while there because
if he harvests something it goes into his freezer.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH observed that on his application Mr. Lamal
answered yes to the question that asked whether the applicant or
the applicant's family could be affected financially by the
decisions made by the board. He requested an explanation.
MR. LAMAL replied he probably shouldn't have checked that box
because there is no financial gain for him in any way serving on
the board.
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH acknowledged that many letters of support
for Mr. Lamal have been received.
2:35:34 PM
LAWRENCE J. "LARRY" VAN DAELE, PhD, Appointee, Board of Game,
testified that as the son of an Air Force fighter pilot he has
lived abroad as well as in the U.S. His father was sent to
Galena and King Salmon and came home with lots of stories, fish,
and crab, which tweaked his interest in coming to Alaska. Upon
receiving his Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees
from the University of Idaho, he and his wife moved to Alaska.
He started as a wildlife biologist with ADF&G in 1981 in the
first version of the Susitna Hydroelectric Project. He worked
for ADF&G for a total of thirty-four years based in Kodiak,
Dillingham, and Anchorage. During that time, he managed the
Round Island Walrus Sanctuary, the Mulchatna Caribou Herd, and
Kodiak brown bears. He earned his PhD in 2007 with some of the
work he did on Kodiak bears. He has been fortunate, he said, to
represent the State of Alaska in the Northern Forum and in the
International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), serving
on the expert team for brown bears. He has made several trips
to Russia, Sweden, Canada, and Japan to work with their
biologists and he has brought their biologists to Alaska.
During the last three years of his career he was regional
supervisor of Region II, Southcentral Alaska. He also wrote a
book on the history of Kodiak bears.
DR. VAN DAELE said he and his wife have continued to live in
Kodiak since his retirement in September 2015. Their grown son
also lives in Kodiak and works as a land manager for the local
Native corporation. Since retiring he works part-time for
Koniag [Incorporated] assisting with development of a bear
viewing operation. He volunteers for the Kodiak Electric
Association to help analyze the potential impacts to bears and
other wildlife from expanding the local hydropower plant's
capacity. He noted he is vice chairman of the Kodiak State
Parks Citizens Advisory Board and helped to write another book
about how to photograph bears. He stated that because of his
positions with ADF&G he has opted to refrain from having
memberships or positions in organizations that directly impact
his decisions. However, he continued, he is an active member of
The Wildlife Society (TWS) as a certified wildlife biologist and
of the International Bear Association [International Association
for Bear Research and Management]. He is chairman of the IUCN
North Asian Brown Bear Expert Team, is a member of the Alutiiq
Museum Collections Committee, and is a member of St. Mary's
Catholic Church and Pioneers of Alaska.
DR. VAN DAEL expressed his honor in holding a seat on the Board
of Game and noted the responsibility of that. He said Alaska
has provided him with an education and many opportunities, and
he would like to offer his talents and services to the board as
a way of giving back to the people and wildlife of the state.
He noted that if confirmed, his primary goals will be healthy
wildlife populations; food security; economic opportunities,
including guiding and tourism; return of state management;
revitalization of the trust by all groups in the Board of Game
process. To do this, a sincere stewardship is needed that
incorporates sustainability and conservation for the future, as
well as respect for everyone's needs and desires. Of concern to
him is the polarization that is being seen in national politics,
which is also creeping into Alaska. With that polarization,
folks will often belittle opposing views, and - in his opinion -
that is eroding the country's democracy and its society. He
offered his belief that it is the responsibility of elected
officials and appointed officials to boards to do everything
possible to bring people together and strive for common ground.
That will help people understand and respect each other and that
is would he would like to try to do if appointed to the Board of
Game.
2:40:49 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON requested Dr. Van Daele's opinion on the
merits of trapping or snaring of brown bears.
DR. VAN DAELE replied that as a common practice trapping and
snaring brown bears should not be done. It is an extraordinary
method that could possibly be used when it is necessary to
reduce bear numbers. However, he continued, there are too many
dangers for both the bears and for the people that utilize that
practice for it to be commonly used in the state.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON remarked that Dr. Van Daele's background is
impeccable and incomparable. He related his understanding,
however, that at a meeting in Fairbanks earlier this year Dr.
Van Daele asserted that people supporting the proposed wolf
buffer were emotional and non-factual. He asked whether Dr. Van
Daele thinks there was any merit in these people's written or
oral statements or whether they were just acting out of emotion.
DR. VAN DAELE responded that that was a snippet of a longer
comment he made. He said he and most board members took the
time to read all 300 of the comments received and to read that
there were about 18,000 others interested in the wolf buffer.
His main concern is the need to work together with science-based
facts. Emotions are legitimate, he said, but when dealing with
wildlife populations that are shared for the beneficial use of
everyone in the state, facts must be weighed as well as
emotions. Several commenters from both sides were not relying
on facts. For example, statements were made that wolf numbers
in Denali National Park and Preserve are declining. But that is
not a fact. As Mr. Spraker stated, wolf numbers are increasing,
and the National Park Service told Board of Game members that
the only wolves it was concerned about were the few individuals
that left the park and went into the Stampede buffer area.
Also, he said, statements were made that people weren't coming
to Denali National Park and Preserve, resulting in economic loss
because of the wolves not being visible. But, according to the
National Park Service, more people were coming than had in the
past. Further, he continued, the Board of Game heard that there
was a lot of communication between the local people, the
National Park Service, and folks who wanted to see more wolves
around, but the board did not hear that consistently from folks.
Perhaps "emotion" was not the proper word to use, he allowed,
but he was trying to relate that in order to get past the
rhetoric and the feelings of people, facts must be looked at,
ideas shared, and unique ways be found to satisfy the many
desires of people. Alaska's constitution says to work for the
maximum benefit for the people of the state, so the board will
be looking at preferences among beneficial uses and as much
factual information as it can.
2:44:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH inquired whether, when speaking of
beneficial uses, Dr. Van Daele is including consumptive and
nonconsumptive uses, or strictly consumptive.
DR. VAN DAELE answered it is evident that it is both consumptive
and nonconsumptive. He pointed out that for consumptive uses
such as hunting, trapping, and fishing, very tight regulations
and short seasons are set, and these are put into effect via
lots of time in board and legislative meetings. Nonconsumptive
uses are something everyone enjoys doing, he continued.
Everyone loves seeing an eagle or a moose. However, not much
time is spent in legislating or regulating what nonconsumptive
use is. For example, bear watching is done at a time of year
when the bears are most vulnerable because it is done when they
are looking for food and it is done on a portion of the
population that is most vulnerable, usually sows with cubs.
Yet, that is not regulated much. That is something the Board of
Game could spend more time doing, he advised, as it is a
beneficial use and something [the board members] need to be
cognizant of as stewards of the state's resources.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested Dr. Van Daele's thoughts
regarding the hunts in the Nelchina area.
DR. VAN DAELE replied that like Mr. Spraker, he too went into
that meeting thinking that the community subsistence harvest was
something the board needed to get rid of. But, the deeper he
looked into it and the more he heard testimony from both sides,
the more he saw that this was a situation where fortunately
there are a lot of moose and caribou. However, there are many
people who want to share that resource. With the tools given
through statute, the board felt that, yes, this community
subsistence harvest could work but it needs to be worked in a
way that is fair to everyone. Quite frankly, he continued, some
folks are "gaming the system" and pushing the limits of what
should be and shouldn't be allowed. Also, some folks are
interested in the legal aspect of it, as much as the resource
aspect of it. So, the Board of Game tried to craft something
that would be fair to all. It didn't make everyone happy, but
the board did the best it could. It provided an opportunity for
folks who were truly community - a community being a group of
people who have a vested interest in spending time looking to
that resource, who need that resource, and with more than 25
people in the group - and blending that with the Tier II
opportunity for a certain segment of the moose population that
is not usually hunted. The board crafted something that will
work to the benefit of the people and the benefit of the
resource, he said, but it is a work in progress given that this
issue has been ongoing for 30 years. The board will again
address this issue at its Region IV meeting next winter. A
sincere effort was made to make it work for everyone.
2:49:53 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON opened public testimony on the appointees to
the Big Game Commercial Services Board and the Board of Game.
2:50:17 PM
GARY STEVENS testified in opposition to Board of Game appointees
Ted Spraker and Karen Linnell. He noted Mr. Spraker has been on
this board for over 14 years and that one of Mr. Spraker's goals
to complete before retiring from the board is to fix the mess in
Game Management Unit 13. He expressed his opinion that Mr.
Spraker has worked a long time to create a rural and perhaps go
so far as a racial priority for moose and caribou. But, he
said, this is not allowed by the state constitution. Regarding
the wolf buffer at Denali, he stated that the federal government
should transfer more land to the State of Alaska for the
contracts rather than the other way around. The more the size
of the park is increased the more the wolves will expand until
eventually the state will be a national park. He said he also
opposes the confirmation of Karen Linnell. Given her
affiliations and past experience, he opined, she is basically a
career advocate for Alaska Native priority which is
unconstitutional under the state constitution. He opined there
is no way Ms. Linnell can be unbiased in her opinions. Mr.
Stevens said six of the seven current Board of Game members
reside in subsistence areas, while only one lives in a non-
subsistence area. He offered his belief that it is reasonable
to expect there be more than one member from Anchorage, Wasilla,
Palmer, or Matanuska-Susitna area.
2:53:13 PM
SAM ROHRER, President, Alaska Professional Hunters Association
(APHA), testified in support of Board of Game appointees Ted
Spraker, Larry Van Daele, and Karen Linnell. He said APHA
represents the big game guiding industry in Alaska and is made
up of both rural and nonrural guides who are by and large Alaska
residents. [APHA] supports sound wildlife management and the
wise use of Alaska's resources. [APHA] supports Board of Game
members who put conservation first, who are fair and open
minded, who are accessible to the public, and who have a desire
to serve both the public and Alaska's wildlife. He said APHA
strongly feels that Mr. Spraker, Dr. Van Daele, and Ms. Linnell
are such people and for these reasons APHA supports their
confirmations.
MR. ROHRER testified in support of Big Game Commercial Services
Board appointees Henry Tiffany, Tom Atkins, and Thomas Sullivan.
He said Mr. Tiffany and Mr. Atkins are respected in the
industry, knowledgeable of the industry, and experienced with
the regulatory process, and for these reasons APHA supports
their confirmations. He stated he has never met Mr. Sullivan
and knows little about him, but that Mr. Sullivan's previous
work experience should be beneficial to his work on the board.
Given the board has had some challenges with administrative
items, and it seems that Mr. Sullivan's previous work experience
would be helpful in resolving those issues; therefore, APHA
supports his confirmation.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND asked whether Mr. Rohrer is expressing
his organization's opinion or is representing himself.
MR. ROHRER replied he is representing the Alaska Professional
Hunters Association and his testimony was APHA's testimony.
2:55:56 PM
ROBERT CAYWOOD testified he served for over twelve years on the
Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee. He said the
advisory committee dissolved because, for a majority of the
members, the Board of Fisheries and the Board of Game did not do
what the people of Alaska want. There were instances, he noted,
where all the advisory committees in the state voted against a
proposal, yet Mr. Spraker still pushed the proposal through.
Board members are needed who will look out for Alaskans, not for
special interest people, he stated. He offered his belief that
Ms. Linnell would also be a special interest person.
2:56:48 PM
LEWIS BRADLEY testified he is a retired schoolteacher and coach
from the Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District and a 45-year
resident of Alaska. He noted he served on the Board of Game
from 2008-2011 and that during this time Tom Lamal testified on
different issues. He said Mr. Lamal was very concerned about
Alaska's wildlife resources and how they were managed, and that
because of Mr. Lamal's service on the Fairbanks Fish and Game
Advisory Committee he is informed on issues involving wildlife
and understands the Board of Game process. He has personally
met Mr. Lamal, he continued, and Mr. Lamal is openminded, fair,
and honestly seeks solutions to issues that are best for the
wildlife. He related that Mr. Lamal once said to him that
listening to all sides of an issue is very important in order to
make informed decisions. Mr. Lamal's involvement in many
organizations shows he is a well-rounded individual with diverse
interests. Mr. Lamal's service with the Fairbanks advisory
committee is very important because the advisory committee deals
with all the issues that the Board of Game will be faced with.
Additionally, Mr. Lamal has many older friends in the Fairbanks
area who have a great deal of history behind them regarding
hunting in Alaska, and Mr. Lamal highly values history and those
individuals who have influenced Alaska over the past 60-plus
years. Mr. Bradley urged that Mr. Lamal's appointment be
confirmed, adding that Mr. Lamal's work ethic, respect for
others' opinions, and willingness to listen make him a great
candidate to serve as a Board of Game member representing all
Alaskans.
2:59:07 PM
MARY BISHOP testified in opposition to the appointment of Karen
Linnell to the Board of Game. She said her question to Ms.
Linnell is whether, as a Board of Game member, she will be loyal
to the mission of the Ahtna-Department of Interior memorandum of
agreement (MOA) or loyal to the state's constitution, given it
cannot be both ways. The constitution states all persons are
equal and entitled to equal rights and opportunities, she said.
By contrast, the MOA in Article III d) requires [Ahtna] and the
federal government to work together towards the goal of wildlife
harvest permits available to only Ahtna Tribal members on
federal public lands of the immense Nelchina Basin area. That
is above and beyond the federal rural priority, she maintained,
and it is a priority for Cantwell Tribal members over Nenana
Tribal members. It's a priority for Ahtna Village Tribal
members over neighboring Tetlin Tribal members. Ahtna is
rightly free to lease its substantial private land holdings in
the area to professional hunting guides for their nonresident
clients. The MOA in Article IV states that nothing herein is
intended to conflict with federal, state, or local laws or
regulations. She said she wishes it would say "nothing herein
is intended to add to arguments for the [indisc.] Indian
community and Indian country."
3:01:20 PM
NICOLE BORROMEO, Executive Vice President & General Counsel,
Alaska Federation of Natives (AFN), testified that the
confirmation process is important to the Native community. She
offered AFN's support for the confirmations of Ted Spraker,
Karen Linnell, and Larry Van Daele to the Board of Game. She
said Mr. Spraker has proven himself an exemplary member from the
time of his initial 2003 appointment to the board; is an avid
hunter, fisher, and trapper; is committed to the conservation
and development of Alaska's resources. Mr. Spraker has
responsibly stewarded the board through many challenging
discussions during his tenure. She stated that Ms. Linnell has
proven herself to be an emerging leader on the board since
Governor Walker appointed her last November. Ms. Linnell is a
lifelong hunter and fisher for subsistence purposes, which is
important, and for over a decade has worked on fish and game
management issues in the Copper River region. Ms. Linnell
provides a voice on the board that needs to be heard, along with
her philosophy of taking care of the resources so they can take
of the people. Dr. Van Daele, she continued, shares many of the
same qualities as Mr. Spraker and Ms. Linnell and the AFN has
been impressed by his eagerness to work with the Alaska Native
community and with Alaskans statewide on fish and game issues.
She urged that their appointments be confirmed.
3:03:27 PM
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director, Resident Hunters of Alaska,
testified in support of the appointments of Tom Lamal and Larry
Van Daele to the Board of Game. He said Mr. Lamal's long
involvement in wildlife management and conservation issues is
how he has come to know him. Mr. Lamal will be an asset to the
board because of his personal experience across Alaska as a
fisher and hunter, schoolteacher, dog trainer, board member of
several hunting organizations, and member of the Fairbanks Fish
and Game Advisory Committee. Mr. Lamal will be able to step
right in because he knows the process and how it works, and will
listen and encourage informed debate on all sides. He stated
that Dr. Van Daele has already stepped right in at the Board of
Game table, showing his long experience on the other side of the
table as a fish and game biologist and supervisor. Dr. Van
Daele is an asset and his experience and knowledge are profound.
3:05:20 PM
BRUCE CAIN testified in support of Karen Linnell's appointment
to the Board of Game. He said she is a consensus-builder, is
willing to listen to all sides, and does the work necessary. He
also offered his support for Ted Spraker, stating that Mr.
Spraker has been a great chairman. He said he usually disagrees
with what Mr. Spraker is proposing, but respects him. He
posited that most people disagree with Mr. Spraker because fish
and game issues are very contentious, but stated that in the end
the results produced from the board's decisions have been the
best that could be made.
3:07:39 PM
JESSE BJORKMAN testified in favor of the appointment of Ted
Spraker to the Board of Game. He said he has known Mr. Spraker
for years and while he doesn't always agree with Mr. Spraker's
positions on issues or the way Mr. Spraker rules on something,
Mr. Spraker is a voice of reason, common sense, and conservation
on the board. Mr. Spraker listens to people who have concerns
and then adjudicates decisions based on scientific evidence and
provides for a balanced and measured approach on the board. As
a biologist by trade, he continued, Mr. Spraker knows his
biology, the state's resources, and relates to those resources
in a special and pertinent way to the people of Alaska and all
user groups.
3:09:08 PM
AARON BLOOMQUIST testified in support of the confirmation of all
the appointees to the Board of Game and to the Big Game
Commercial Services Board. He said he knows all the appointees
in some way and all are well-qualified with each person having
their own philosophy. Philosophies should be mitigated to some
extent among these qualified people as long as they are honest
people. For example, he continued, at the last Board of Game
meeting he disagreed with Dr. Van Daele and Ms. Linnell on a
proposal that he submitted regarding a different way to go about
the community hunt. The proposal didn't go his way, but at the
same time people with high integrity were in the room and he
does not hold that against them. Both appointees provided great
discussion, he said, and they are the two best new board members
he has seen during his many years dealing with the Board of
Game.
3:11:15 PM
RICHARD BISHOP testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karen Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game. He maintained
that due to her responsibilities in the Ahtna community, Ms.
Linnell has an intractable conflict of interest with the duties
and obligations of a Board of Game member. As the executive
director of the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource Commission, Ms.
Linnell signed her approval of a memorandum of agreement (MOA)
between the Ahtna Commission and the U.S. Department of
Interior. He stated that the Ahtna Commission is comprised of
representatives from Ahtna, Incorporated, eight Tribes, and one
village corporation. The MOA anticipates establishing a new
federal Ahtna cooperative structure under the federal
subsistence board for regulation of management and harvest
allocation of moose, caribou, other game, and fish on federal
lands adjacent to lands of Ahtna, Incorporated, and the eight
villages with Tribal representation. He maintained that a new
structure would basically shut out the State of Alaska's game
management, Board of Game, and state advisory committee
structure and process, on federal lands in this area and would
impair state management on adjacent state and private lands.
Allocation of harvests would favor Tribal members of the eight
villages in what amounts to a racial priority on top of the
existing federal rural subsistence priority. These goals of the
U.S. Department of Interior and the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource
Commission are substantially inconsistent with the State of
Alaska's constitutional and statutory responsibilities and
authorities. He reiterated his belief that Ms. Linnell as an
official proponent of the MOA has a fundamental conflict of
interest in relation to the duties and obligations of a member
of the Board of Game.
3:13:50 PM
The House Resources Standing Committee recessed at 3:14 p.m., to
be continued at 5:00 p.m.
5:01:48 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON called the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting back to order at 5:01 p.m. Representatives Josephson,
Drummond, Johnson, Talerico, Parish, Rauscher, and Birch were
present at the call back to order. Representatives Tuck
(alternate) and Tarr arrived as the meeting was in progress.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON resumed public testimony regarding the
confirmations of Henry Tiffany, Thomas Sullivan, and Tom Atkins,
appointees to the Big Game Commercial Services Board, and the
confirmations of Ted Spraker, Karen Linnell, Thomas Lamal, and
Larry Van Daele, appointees to the Board of Game.
5:02:43 PM
ROD ARNO, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC),
maintained that the November 2016 agreement signed by Karen
Linnell as the executive director of the Ahtna Inter-Tribal
Resource Commission puts her in direct conflict with the Alaska
Constitution and the fish and game laws enacted by the
legislature. He said the agreement, ["Memorandum of Agreement
Between the United States Department of Interior and Ahtna
Inter-Tribal Resource Commission for a Demonstration Project for
Cooperative Management of Customary and Traditional Subsistence
Uses in the Ahtna Region,"] formalizes a management partnership
between the U.S. Department of Interior and the Ahtna Commission
for the allocation and the harvest of moose and caribou by rural
residents of Native villages in the Ahtna region. However, he
continued, it is the Board of Game, authorized by the
legislature, which is empowered to allocate moose and caribou.
MR. ARNO stated that at a [1/17/17] Federal Subsistence Board
meeting Ms. Linnell complained about being treated as just
members of the public before the Board of Game. But, he
continued, AOC contends that Ms. Linnell and her members of the
Ahtna villages are members of the public. He said the state is
guided by the constitutional mandates of common use equal access
to a natural resource for the benefit of all Alaskans and not
for the allocation of a particular race or exclusive group of
people. He argued that Ms. Linnell cannot on one hand seek to
erode the state's constitutional principles through agreements
with the federal government while on the other hand purport to
defend the state's constitutional principles. He related that
at the Federal Subsistence Board meeting, Ken Lord, Interior
Solicitor for the U.S. Department of Interior, stated that the
MOA is not intended to be the end of the process but rather a
start of something bigger. If that is the case, Mr. Arno said,
there should be a red flag to the committee and to every Alaskan
who believes in equality under the law. He said Mr. Lord is
referring to the management of inholdings, lands adjacent to
conservation system units, and Ahtna lands, and applying it also
to fish.
MR. ARNO posited that the MOA with the U.S. Department of
Interior defines the goals of the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource
Commission. He said Ms. Linnell has demonstrated that her Ahtna
interests squarely conflict with the obligations under the
Alaska Constitution. While AOC recognizes Ms. Linnell's
dedicated service to the Ahtna region and the goals of her
people, he added, her position as executive director of the
Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource Commission in pursuit of Tribal or
racially-based management and allocation of public resources
disqualifies her for service on the Board of Game.
5:06:06 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON stated he doesn't agree with anything said by
Mr. Arno. He said he isn't an expert in this issue, but that he
has studied it, including taking a course on Alaska Native
rights and Tribal courts at the University of Alaska Anchorage.
There is a supremacy clause, he noted, and under the Alaska
National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA), the supreme
law of the land, there are subsistence rights. People are
allowed to meld their duty to the constitution and their rights
under federal law and it happens all the time. Currently, he
said, co-management is being done in the Bethel area as well as
the Ahtna region.
MR. ARNO responded that Co-Chair Josephson's understanding is
foggy because there is no place that allows for a racial
preference. In following history back to the Alaska Native
Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) and the negotiations of Title VIII
of ANILCA, he said, a rural priority was established. The MOA
is just with the Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource Commission and is a
racial priority, he argued. "You watch how quickly the Federal
Subsistence Board follows through with this MOA," he stated.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that after the John v. Baker decision
of 1999, written by Dana Fabe, a string of decisions/rulings
have been made that infuse Tribes with additional rights, and
that is what is being seen here.
MR. ARNO maintained that the Alaska Supreme Court would
vehemently disagree with Co-Chair Josephson.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that she finds it highly unusual
to have the aforementioned exchange with someone testifying
before the committee. She offered her appreciation for Mr. Arno
stating his opinion.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON stated the context is that some calls from
earlier today regarding Ms. Linnell he found inappropriate.
5:09:16 PM
BEN STEVENS, representative, Hunting and Fishing Task Force,
Tanana Chiefs Conference (TCC), testified in support of Karen
Linnell's appointment to the Board of Game. He said Ms.
Linnell's perspective, experience, knowledge, skills, and
abilities are appropriate for resource management at this time.
Ms. Linnell's experience and attention to the state's resources
and all of the state's people are sorely needed, he continued.
Instead of pillorying her experience, it should be embraced
because that type of diversity is needed at this time. He said
he disagrees with Mr. Arno that she represents a special
interest. He stated that Ms. Linnell's many qualities and
skills make her an asset to the Board of Game, the people of the
state, the resources, and the state and therefore TCC fully
supports her confirmation.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND offered her understanding that Mr.
Stevens is testifying on behalf of the Tanana Chiefs Conference.
MR. STEVENS replied he works for the Tanana Chiefs Conference
and helps support the Hunting and Fishing Task Force.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND inquired whether the Hunting and Fishing
Task Force of TCC has taken a position on the appointment of
Karen Linnell.
MR. STEVENS responded that it has taken a position in support.
5:12:34 PM
JAMES LOW, retiree of the Department of Public Safety, Division
of Alaska Wildlife Troopers, testified in support of Thomas
Lamal, appointee to the Board of Game. He said he has known Mr.
Lamal for 30 years, most of their contacts being through the
after-school hunter education program where Mr. Lamal was a
teacher facilitator and he was part of the ADF&G crew. He
related that he spoke to Mr. Lamal's Alaska studies classes on
the topic of wildlife enforcement, one of the several topics
that Mr. Lamal had presented to his class that included predator
control, black bear baiting, trapping, and so forth. He said
Mr. Lamal never tried to sway his class with his personal
thoughts on any issue and would bring in speakers from both
sides of an issue and let the students ask questions and make up
their own minds.
MR. LOW explained that as a trooper he inspected the moose taken
by hunters to ensure that all the required parts had been
salvaged and proof of the gender had been left intact on the
hindquarters. One inspection, he recalled, happened to be of a
moose taken by Mr. Lamal and Mr. Lamal had labeled each [game]
sack as to the contents inside, making the inspection very easy
to do. He said he finds Mr. Lamal to be a person who will
analyze all parts of an issue and then determine which course of
action is appropriate to take. He offered his belief that Mr.
Lamal is an excellent choice for the Board of Game.
5:15:29 PM
APRIL FERGUSON, senior vice president, Bristol Bay Native
Corporation, testified in support of the appointments of Ted
Spraker and Karen Linnell to the Board of Game. [Due to poor
sound quality, Ms. Ferguson's remaining comments on Mr. Spraker
and Ms. Linnell are indecipherable.]
5:20:21 PM
FREDRICK OLSEN, JR., noted he is Tribal vice president of the
Organized Village of Kasaan on Prince of Wales Island and is
also a member of the city council, but stated he is testifying
as a citizen, not as a representative of the aforementioned. He
offered his support for the appointment of Karen Linnell to the
Board of Game and said he appreciates the way Ms. Linnell uses
science and biology over politics in her decision-making. Ms.
Linnell's previous experience shows she understands the federal
process, he said. She will bring this knowledge to her service
at the state level with the Board of Game, which will be of help
with regard to the state's federally recognized Tribes instead
of ignoring Tribes or demonizing Tribes as mere special interest
groups. The Tribes, as indigenous people of the land, have a
lot to offer the state, he continued, especially in areas of
collaboration and overlap of existing programs between the state
and Tribes. In the era of budget crunching, efficiencies could
perhaps be found that would help both the state and the people,
and Ms. Linnell is the person to do the job.
5:23:01 PM
CARRIE STEVENS testified in support of Karen Linnell, appointee
to the Board of Game. She said Ms. Linnell is a fair and honest
woman who really does consider every side of the equation before
she moves forward. Ms. Linnell has shown her leadership as an
individual and constantly demonstrates her ability to critically
think, look, read, ask, and pay attention to all perspectives in
order to make good decisions. She pointed out that Ms. Linnell
has been a well-read and literate board member on all the boards
that she has served on. Ms. Linnell is an Alaskan who has lived
her life around the fish and wildlife resources of the state and
she has made sure that Alaska takes care of Alaskans. Ms.
Stevens added that she cannot speak highly enough of Ms.
Linnell's integrity in serving Alaskans.
5:25:07 PM
RICHARD PETERSON testified in support of Karen Linnell,
appointee to the Board of Game. He said he supports Ms. Linnell
because of her many years of experience in fish and game
management and because she has proven she is capable of finding
common ground with competing interests. He noted the importance
of Ms. Linnell's belief that wildlife management decisions need
to be based on science and biology and not politics. Because of
her familiarity with the Board of Game process, Ms. Linnell will
not need to get up to speed, he said. Ms. Linnell is a
consensus-driven person, which is important and compatible with
the philosophy she represents. Further, he added, Ms. Linnell
understands the federal perspective from her past advisory
experience and will bring that knowledge to her service to the
state.
5:26:27 PM
WILBUR BROWN, second vice president, Alaska Native Brotherhood
Grand Camp; camp president, Sitka Local Camp, testified in
support of Karen Linnell's appointment to the Board of Game. He
said he has known Ms. Linnell for many years and while he may
not always agree with her, he has always been able to come to a
resolution with her in discussions. Ms. Linnell understands the
Board of Game process and the federal prospective, he continued,
and she understands the lifestyle of Alaskans because she lives
the lifestyle. Ms. Linnell will provide fair representation for
communities and is involved with communities. He offered his
respect for Ms. Linnell and his understanding of her opinions.
5:27:59 PM
DON HORRELL noted he is a lifelong Alaskan and a 50-year member
of the Copper Basin Fish and Game Advisory Committee. He
testified in strong support of both Ted Spraker and Karen
Linnell. He said Mr. Spraker's experience as the area biologist
makes him very familiar with [Game Management] Unit 13, the most
popular unit for all of the different user groups. He said he
has worked with Ms. Linnell on federal issues for years and that
she brings all kinds of knowledge of both the region and the
federal issues. Ms. Linnell's background will be a real plus to
the Board of Game, he continued. He added that she is very
supportive of all Copper Basin residents and is very strong in
Native issues as well as non-Native issues in the Copper Basin.
5:30:23 PM
JESSICA BLACK testified in support of Karen Linnell, appointee
to the Board of Game. She said Ms. Linnell's wide experience on
boards and her calm, organized, and fair demeanor will make her
be an excellent board member. She stated that Ms. Linnell sees
all sides of issues before she makes a decision and really does
her homework by reading everything. She said she has been very
impressed when she has seen Ms. Linnell in the different venues
and that Ms. Linnell is already an excellent member of the Board
of Game and will make fair decisions. She further related that
Ms. Linnell lives in a community where she has to constantly
consider different perspectives and does so with grace. Ms.
Black offered her support, confidence, and high recommendation
for Ms. Linnell.
5:31:35 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR [moved to advance the confirmations] of Big Game
Commercial Services Board appointees Henry Tiffany, James "Tom"
Atkins, and Thomas Sullivan, and Board of Game appointees Ted
Spraker, Karen Linnell, Thomas Lamal, and Larry Van Daele. She
stated that the House Resources Standing Committee has reviewed
the qualifications of the governor's appointees to these boards
and recommends their names be forwarded to a joint session for
consideration. She advised that this does not reflect intent by
any of the members to vote for or against these individuals
during any further sessions for the purposes of confirmation.
[There being no objection, the confirmations were advanced.]
5:32:31 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
HB 134-BOARD OF GAME MEMBERSHIP
5:33:02 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON announced that the next order of business
would be HOUSE BILL 134, "An Act relating to the composition of
the Board of Game."
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute
(CS) for HB 134, Version 30-LS0473\J, Bullard, 3/28/17, as the
working document.
5:33:18 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON objected for discussion purposes.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON explained that the original bill proposed
there be two members other than the general category of members
on the Board of Game - one a dedicated tourism seat and one a
dedicated nonconsumptive seat. He said Version J reduces the
number of dedicated seats from two to one, removes the language
that there shall be a tourism seat, and adds the language, "One
member shall be appointed whose predominant use of game
resources is nonconsumptive and who is actively engaged in
wildlife conservation."
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER recalled that a public hearing was held
on the original bill and surmised that a public hearing would
not be held on Version J [if adopted as the working document].
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied correct.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked whether the aforementioned
explanation of Version J is the only difference.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON responded correct.
5:35:31 PM
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON removed his objection. There being no
further objection, Version J was before the committee.
5:35:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH offered [Conceptual Amendment 1] as
follows: Page 1, Section 1, line 13, delete "shall", and insert
"should".
5:36:03 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.
CO-CHAIR TARR stated that either "shall" or "may" is the typical
language that is used, rather than "should", when wanting a
provision to be either prescriptive or permissive. Therefore,
she would leave it up to the drafters at Legislative Legal
Services, Legislative Affairs Agency, to determine whether the
word should be changed from "shall" to "may".
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK agreed with Co-Chair Tarr and pointed out
that page 1, line 7, states the governor "shall". He said
"shall" and "may" constitute the standard language that is used
throughout the state's statutes.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND said the committee needs to know whether
"shall" or "may" agrees with the sponsor of the bill because, in
her opinion, "should" sounds permissive.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested the sponsor to give an example
of someone who would fit the description in the bill.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that this person shall reflect all
the uses of game in the state by residents. In further response
to Representative Rauscher he clarified that he reads the
language to mean the appointee should reflect these user groups,
not necessarily that the appointee must be a sport and
subsistence hunter, trapper, and tourist all at the same time.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested the sponsor to give an example
of a person who can fill this, such as whether this person would
be someone like a wildlife photographer or someone involved in
conservation who has been involved in all these different types
of situations.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON noted that two different sentences are added
in Version J and he thought that Representative Rauscher was
addressing the second, but it seems the first one is now being
addressed. He maintained that the current language on diversity
on page 1, line 9, is not reflected in the makeup of the current
board. He recalled Mr. Spraker, chairman of the board, and who
has been on the board since 2002, definitively stating earlier
that a nonconsumptive user is needed on the board. He further
recalled Mr. Spraker stating that someone like Ben Grussendorf
was the kind of person who is needed because nonconsumptive
users thought that Mr. Grussendorf heard them.
5:40:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH spoke further on Conceptual Amendment 1.
He said the current language in Version J is strictly permissive
and the proposed language change is aspirational rather than
prescriptive or permissive. The proposed language would say
this is the goal rather than something that shall be done and
that failing to do so would be a violation of statute. He said
he thinks it is best to have the language speaking to the
[legislature's] purpose and he thinks it is best to leave a
degree of flexibility in it.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked whether it is Representative Parish's
preference to persist with the proposed language of "should".
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH responded yes, subject to review by
Legislative Legal Services.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER stated he is not speaking in favor of
the bill, but is speaking in favor of the amendment because he
understands what the maker of the amendment is trying to say.
He said the amendment looks like the question he had previously
asked because he is unsure this provision could really happen
and then when it didn't it would be a violation of statute.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK offered his understanding that the maker of
the amendment believes "should" would be permissive rather than
mandatory. He asked whether the bill sponsor's intention is
that it be mandatory.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON answered that, as stated by Co-Chair Tarr and
Representative Tuck, "may" or "shall" are consistent with what
he has read. There is no doubt, he continued, that there is a
distinction between these two words.
5:44:02 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Rauscher and Parish
voted in favor of Conceptual Amendment 1. Representatives
Talerico, Tuck (alternate), Drummond, Johnson, Josephson, and
Tarr voted against it. Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 1 failed
to be adopted by a vote of 2-6.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said she received a suggestion which is
that a definition of nonconsumptive should be included into the
bill. She requested the sponsor's thoughts on this suggestion.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that thought was given to that very
thing, which is why [Version J] describes it as someone who is
actively engaged in wildlife conservation. For purposes of
making a record for posterity, he said it would be someone who
generally speaking, isn't necessarily going to be inclined to
not vote for hunting that is not what is intended. It is
someone who has some belief that wildlife is also for watching
and viewing, particularly when there are contentious issues
involving methods and means. For example, he continued, Dr. Van
Daele talked about his preference that bears not be trapped or
snared, which is a minority opinion on the board, and that is
the sort of diversity that a nonconsumptive user could bring.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK (alternate) offered his appreciation for
Representative Johnson's question. He pointed out that what is
not being said by Version J is someone who just goes out and
shoots game and doesn't eat it. What the bill says is
"predominant use of game resources is nonconsumptive", so he
would read this as excluding professional hunters. He noted the
language goes on to state, "who is actively engaged in wildlife
conservation." Many professional hunters are also into wildlife
conservation, he continued, so the CS puts a balance in there to
demonstrate that these are not necessarily nonhunters, but that
they are not predominantly for consumptive use as would be had
in a profession.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH related that consumptive is defined in
Dictionary.com as pertaining to consumption by use, when
something is consumed it is used up. Therefore, he concluded,
when a person takes pictures of wildlife, wildlife is not
necessarily damaged in the process, thereby making it a
nonconsumptive use.
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND commented she has heard a nonconsumptive
user described as someone who only takes a photo from the field,
the animal is not taken.
5:48:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER posited that nonconsumptive could mean
conservation, and that could be management but not utilizing any
of it for a refrigerator.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON ascertained no one else wished to offer
additional amendments and announced the committee is now under
discussion of the proposed CS.
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO stated he is not in favor of the
proposed CS as written, nor the amendment. After reciting the
proposed new language, he said Representative Tuck brought up a
good point. He stated he considers himself to be a wildlife
conservationist because he invests financially every year in the
conservation of game via the purchase of a hunting license,
which goes towards game conservation. He said he also regularly
goes out to view animals with a spotting scope and does more
viewing than actual taking of game. Therefore, he posited, his
predominant use could very well be described as nonconsumptive.
He noted that current statute states, "with a view to providing
diversity of interest and points of view in the membership." He
further noted that it is the governor at the time that makes the
appointments to the Board of Game and because of the wording in
current statute it is really the choice of the state's
administrator at that particular time. He predicted a bumpy
road ahead [if the bill is passed] that could result in coming
to a point of having to determine what every seat will be and
what the requirements will be for each seat, such as wildlife
biologist or guide, along with a definition of consumer.
5:52:20 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON addressed Representative Talerico's point
by posing a scenario in which someone is a nonconsumptive user
by virtue of snapping pictures and watching grouse but who also
goes hunting occasionally. She asked whether this person would
be excluded from appointment to the nonconsumptive seat.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that a lot of thought went into how
to craft something like this and the history of the bill will
reflect, starting with the invited testimony, what was trying to
be achieved. He said a court would look at this and say,
"They're trying to do something different in this sentence, this
is different - this is different than the other six spots." The
court would have to make that determination, he maintained.
5:53:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said it is his understanding that
whatever is talked about in this committee on this side when it
goes to court will be used as the intent of what was intended
here. So, when it does go to court committee members will need
to define in their conversation the intent of what the sponsor
is trying to get across here. He requested the sponsor to state
his intent.
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON remarked:
This seat would be held by someone who does not oppose
hunting, but who opposes the methods and means that
I've seen employed in the last 15 years that are very
unusual. And these include things like gassing of
wolf pups and bear snaring and bear trapping and same-
day airborne, and land and shoot at wolves, and
intensive game management which didn't exist before,
or at least wasn't implemented prior to 2002. ? They
would have to follow the law. I'm not saying they
wouldn't follow the law. So, if there was a proposal
for intensive game management they'd have to follow
that law. But they would give a voice to the 85
percent of the people who don't have hunting and
trapping licenses. That's who they'd give a voice to.
That's the plan. That's the goal.
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH recited the current statute, which states,
"The governor shall appoint each member on the basis of interest
in public affairs, good judgment, knowledge, and ability in the
field of action of the board, and with a view to providing
diversity of interest and points of view in the membership."
Referring to today's testimony by the Board of Game appointees,
he noted that Mr. Spraker has a great deal of reason to know,
that Dr. Van Daele recognized the importance of nonconsumptive
use, and that Ms. Linnell referenced the importance of having
resources available for all the user groups including the
nonconsumptive. However, he continued, his impression is that
the status quo isn't, and hasn't been, working quite right in
that [the Board of Game] does not have the diversity of interest
and points of view that are really representative of the Alaska
population as a whole, and that failure is what this bill aims
to address. The word nonconsumptive is someone whose primary
use is nonconsumptive, although this person can still certainly
be a hunter so long as his or her primary use is elsewhere. He
offered his support for the bill, but said he cannot promise he
won't ask Legislative Legal Services about the difference
between "should" and "shall".
5:57:36 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR pointed out that the Board of Game and Board of
Fisheries statutes were written at the time of statehood. Since
then the state has grown quite a bit, she continued, and there
are now many more stakeholder groups. She said she sees this
process as being a maturing and evolving of the state and that
considering the viewpoints of a variety of interest groups is
what is bringing things to this point, and which is why she is
supporting the bill.
5:58:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER stated that naming a definition of one
particular seat is inconsistent with the other six seats. For
this reason alone, although he doesn't think a nonconsumptive
seat should not be on the board, he offered his belief that the
bill seeks to dictate the definition of one of the directors on
this board but not the other six. This is not in the best
interest, he posited, because it could lead toward naming the
definition and dictating belief systems when the way it has been
done to date has been fair. Therefore, he said, he would be
voting no on the bill.
5:59:37 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report the proposed CS for HB 134,
Version 30-LS0473\J, Bullard, 3/28/17, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON objected.
6:00:04 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Tuck (alternate),
Drummond, Parish, Tarr, and Josephson voted in favor of the
bill. Representatives Johnson, Rauscher, and Talerico voted
against it. Therefore, CSHB 134(RES) was reported from the
House Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 5-3.
6:00:48 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
6:01:02 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 6:01 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Henry Tiffany IV_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| Adam Trombley 2015_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| James Atkins 2016_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| Thomas Sullivan Jr._Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board |
| Karen Linnell_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| Thomas Lamal_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| Ted Spraker 2016_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| Lawrence Van Daele_Redacted.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| Tom Lamal -BOG- Letters of Support 3.28.17.pdf.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| HB 134 vers J.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |
| Linnell Support 3.31.17.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
Board of Game |
| HB 134 vers J.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |
| HB 134 Opposition Document - Note in Opposition Harpster 3.31.17.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |
| HB134 Fiscal Note DFG-BBS 3.17.17.pdf |
HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM |
HB 134 |