Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205
01/19/2005 01:00 PM House RESOURCES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Alaska Department of Fish & Game (adf&g) | |
| Department of Natural Resources | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
JOINT MEETING
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
January 19, 2005
1:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
HOUSE RESOURCES
Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair
Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Carl Gatto
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Kurt Olson
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Mary Kapsner
SENATE RESOURCES
Senator Thomas Wagoner, Chair
Senator Ralph Seekins, Vice Chair
Senator Ben Stevens
Senator Bert Stedman
MEMBERS ABSENT
HOUSE RESOURCES
Representative Harry Crawford
SENATE RESOURCES
Senator Fred Dyson
Senator Kim Elton
Senator Gretchen Guess
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
OVERVIEWS: ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME; DEPARTMENT OF
NATURAL RESOURCES
- HEARD
NATURAL GAS 101
- HEARD BUT NOT RECORDED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
WAYNE REGELIN, Acting Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of ADF&G's mission
and budget.
DOUG MECUM, Director
Division of Commercial Fisheries
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of the Division of
Commercial Fisheries of ADF&G.
KELLY HEPLER, Director
Division of Sport Fish
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of the Division of
Sport Fish of ADF&G.
MATT ROBUS, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of the Division of
Wildlife Conservation of ADF&G.
LANDA BAILY, Executive Director
Board of Game
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of the Boards Support
Section of ADF&G.
TOM IRWIN, Commissioner
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of DNR.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CO-CHAIR RALPH SAMUELS called the joint meeting of the House and
Senate Resources Standing Committees to order at 1:05:57 PM.
Senators Wagoner, Seekins, and Stedman; and Representatives
Ramras, Samuels, Elkins, LeDoux, Olson, Seaton, and Kapsner were
present at the call to order. Senator Ben Stevens and
Representative Gatto arrived as the meeting was in progress.
^ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME (ADF&G)
WAYNE REGELIN, Acting Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish &
Game (ADF&G), introduced department staff who were in the
audience.
1:07:49 PM
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN stated that the mission of ADF&G is
to maintain resources and manage for the economy and the well
being of the people of the state, consistent with the principles
of sustained yield. The department has about 850 full-time
employees and about the same number of seasonal staff located in
44 communities throughout Alaska. The budget request is just
over $150 million, including $31.4 million from the general
fund. He noted that the general fund makes up about 21 percent
of the budget, and federal funds comprise about 40 percent of
the department's budget. Some of the federal funds are secure,
and some depend on annual appropriations from Congress.
1:09:25 PM
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN related that the commissioner's
office has 11 employees who, among other duties, participate in
numerous councils and organizations and coordinate Alaska's
participation in interjurisdictional forums, including
international fisheries initiatives, congressional fish and
wildlife legislation, and endangered species issues.
1:10:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked how the department is defining its
missions and measures.
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN said the department has spent much
time working on its missions and measures, which are very
detailed. He highlighted the importance of the missions and
measures being achievable and measurable. An update will be
presented in detail at budget committee meetings, he noted.
1:12:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON pointed out that the legislature didn't
adopt any of the changes to ADF&G's missions and measures that
the department has been working on over the last two years. He
asked if the department is working from the statutorily approved
missions and measures from 2000 and 2002 or if it is working
from the current missions and measures that have been updated
administratively.
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN replied that the department is
updating its missions and measures such that they are more
focused and achievable.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON requested that the department continue to
work on its missions and measures to be adopted statutorily.
1:13:24 PM
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS quoted from a copy of ADF&G's missions and
measures regarding the target for total "trip-related
expenditures for fishing, hunting and wildlife associat[ed]
recreation in Alaska." Co-Chair Samuels said, "From 1996 to
2001 [trip-related expenditures for fishing, hunting and
wildlife associated recreation in Alaska] dropped. And if the
target is to increase it...what are you doing to reverse it?"
1:14:12 PM
ACTING COMMISSIONER REGELIN responded that participation in
wildlife activities has decreased because of a small decrease in
nonresident hunters, and "it is all related to the abundance of
wildlife primarily in Interior Alaska, and we're starting to
take measures to turn that around through management of
predators," he related. However, it will take some time because
participation is difficult to measure. He said ADF&G welcomes
suggestions from the legislature.
1:15:35 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS expressed concern about how the department can
accurately measure abundance or availability of wildlife to give
hunters the "hope" that they will be able to harvest.
DOUG MECUM, Director, Division of Commercial Fisheries, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, presented an overview of ADF&G's
commercial fisheries division. He detailed the authorities and
responsibilities of the division, which has about 300 full-time
and 520 seasonal employees in four regions and 40 area offices
around the state.
MR. MECUM stated that the division's budget is a "status quo
budget" under the governor's request, except for increases for
expanding salmon stock assessment capabilities in Cook Inlet,
Prince William Sound, and Bristol Bay, and increases in expenses
for the employee retirement program.
1:21:10 PM
MR. MECUM presented a graph showing recent record-level salmon
production in the state concomitant with a decline in the
monetary value salmon. Three years ago salmon hit its lowest
value in recent time. Although value has come up in the past
few years, "people are struggling with those problems."
1:22:16 PM
MR. MECUM provided information regarding the relative catch size
and dollar values of state fisheries by species.
1:23:07 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked how involved the Division of Commercial
Fisheries would be if a fish hatchery for sport fish is built in
Fairbanks and Anchorage.
MR. MECUM deferred that question to Kelly Hepler, Division of
Sport Fish. Mr. Mecum noted that many of the performance
measures that the legislature adopted for fishery management are
incorporated by the division.
1:24:27 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS inquired as to the pressure the Board of
Fisheries and the department face to produce higher volumes when
the monetary values of fish decline. He also asked how that
would impact subsistence and sport anglers.
MR. MECUM responded that he didn't think there was much pressure
on the Board of Fisheries to increase harvest opportunities just
because of declining values. He related his belief that the
objective is to maximize available harvest regardless of value.
The board, the department, and the legislature are trying to
lower the focus on the number of fish and turn attention to
value. He mentioned that the governor has increased marketing
efforts in order to increase value. There is also an effort in
restructuring fishing regulations to create a more steady
harvest that should support higher-end niche markets.
1:26:38 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS inquired as to the method used to determine the
maximum allowable harvest of salmon for any particular tributary
or stream.
MR. MECUM said the department has fixed escapement goals. No
fishing is allowed until escapement goals have been reached, and
these goals are based on maximum sustained yield determinations.
He said the department uses a number of different models to
estimate maximum sustained yield.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if one predominant method is used to
calculate the amount of harvestable salmon.
MR. MECUM said the department uses the Ricker model--a spawn and
recruit model that measures the production of progeny based on
the number of adults that enter the stream.
1:28:17 PM
CHAIR WAGONER asked about the number of "cost recovery" programs
the department is operating.
MR. MECUM explained that Chair Wagoner was referring to "test
fish" programs under which the department harvests fish for
research purposes and then sells those fish for money. The
legislature authorized the department to sell the otherwise
wasted fish as a way to fund department programs. Mr. Mecum
said that this practice has raised concerns around the state
when commercial fish harvesters feel that it is an indirect tax
on them. Also, some people view it as competition. Mr. Mecum
opined that he is not convinced it is a sustainable way to fund
core fishery management programs. In response to Chair Wagoner,
Mr. Mecum said there are about 10 of these programs in the
state.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked what happens to bycatch, specifically
salmon inadvertently caught in the pollock fisheries.
MR. MECUM said that salmon caught in the Bering Sea trawl
fishery needs to be kept, and they are generally donated to food
banks. He said there are different bycatch issues for each
fishery, so Senator Seekin's question is difficult to answer.
However he noted that the state has taken a "fairly aggressive
position" to limit bycatch, and that it is an ongoing problem.
CHAIR WAGONER related his desire for the department to work hard
on longline bycatch because of the waste, and he suggested it
may be a place for the state to recoup money instead of from
cost recovery programs.
MR. MECUM said it was a good point. He noted that there are
rationalization programs underway in the Bering Sea and the Gulf
of Alaska, which eliminate the race for fish so boats can
cooperate and trade bycatch. They can move off of "hot spots."
He said derby-style fishing causes problems because boats are
told when and where to fish. Whereas under quota systems, boat
captains can pick the time and place to fish, leading to higher
quality catch and lower bycatch.
1:34:26 PM
KELLY HEPLER, Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, stated the division's mission, which
is to protect and improve Alaska's recreational fishery
resources. He said the division is built around the following
core services: fisheries management, stock assessment, hatchery
production, access development, habitat assessment, information
services, enforcement, and planning.
1:38:23 PM
MR. HEPLER noted some challenges the division faces. For
instance, there are two hatcheries in the Anchorage area that
are aging and have had a 25 percent reduction in production. He
related that the division has some solutions, and he looks
forward to working with the legislature on solving such
problems.
1:39:39 PM
MR. HEPLER turned to the division's budget, which is around $43
million, of which the primary funding source is various federal
receipts. The federal excise tax contributes the most, he
noted. Another large funding source is the Fish and Game Fund.
He informed the committees that the division employs 220 full-
time staff and 230 part-time staff within 3 regions and 14 field
offices.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked Mr. Hepler to elaborate on enforcement.
MR. HEPLER said that ADF&G has a "very aggressive training
program" for all of its staff, which is coordinated with the
Department of Public Safety.
SENATOR STEDMAN asked if there is a need for an expansion in
this area.
MR. HEPLER said he would love to see that, but deferred to the
commissioner of the Department of Public Safety.
1:43:24 PM
CHAIR WAGONER said, "The state, several years ago, had a fairly
good-sized hatchery program." He noted that hatcheries have
since been closed or were turned over to aquaculture
associations. He stated his belief that there are two
hatcheries that are "way under utilized."
MR. HEPLER said those hatcheries are old, and new technologies
and knowledge are needed. He noted that those two facilities
didn't have the necessary water and an adequate footprint. The
department is learning how to "raise fish better" by borrowing
expertise from Scandinavia. He said the division wants to
establish a hatchery at Fort Richardson and one in Fairbanks.
1:46:29 PM
CHAIR WAGONER clarified that he was referring to [hatcheries] in
South Central Alaska.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked what Mr. Hepler meant in his handouts
regarding the division's coordination with "other regulatory
boards" on fishery management plans and regulations.
MR. HEPLER said the department works with the Federal
Subsistence Board and the Division of Forestry, but, by far, the
Board of Fisheries is the main regulatory board.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Hepler if his field personnel can
issue citations when they see an obvious infraction.
MR. HEPLER answered, "Absolutely." But there are certain things
his department deals with and other problems which the State
Troopers address. He noted that the two agencies cooperate
well.
1:49:09 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS asked what the volume of citations is in a year.
MR. HEPLER said he did not know.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked Mr. Hepler to provide a definition of the
Ricker method to which Mr. Mecum referred earlier.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS inquired as to the operating costs of fish
hatcheries.
MR. HEPLER answered that the Fairbanks facility in Co-Chair
Ramras' district will cost about $1.25 million per year to
operate as will the Anchorage facility.
1:50:47 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said Fairbanks has expressed interest in
locating, designing, and constructing its hatchery. He asked if
that makes it more complicated or easier for the state.
MR. HEPLER answered that he wants the division to have the
ultimate responsibility, citing concerns with engineering and
liability. He expressed doubts that Fairbanks will "take it and
run with it," but he expects and wants the city to play a
significant role.
1:52:58 PM
SENATOR STEDMAN inquired as to how many hatcheries the state has
built and divested itself of, why that happened, and why the
state needs to build more.
MR. HEPLER said he would do some research and provide that
information.
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked if the Division of Commercial Fisheries
and the Division of Sport Fish are completely separate, and who
funds them.
MR. HEPLER answered that the funding sources are different, and
he gave some examples.
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS said he hopes the Alaska Department of Fish &
Game did a good job on its missions and measures because the
House Finance budget subcommittees will review that.
1:55:23 PM
MATT ROBUS, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, informed the committees that the
division has four regional offices, and he said that the
backbone of the division is the area offices where staff conduct
wildlife inventories, censuses, composition counts, and
population status monitoring.
1:58:06 PM
MR. ROBUS reported that big game species like moose, caribou,
deer, and bears receive the most public use and the greatest
management and research attention from the division. In the
last two years the division has "moved into the intensive
management realm," implementing four wolf control programs, with
a fifth one being added soon. He said it was a "substantial
addition to our management program." The division also focuses
on furbearers and other species taken for economic purposes. He
briefly mentioned some of the division's statewide programs,
such as hunter and wildlife education programs for the public,
including firearm safety, ecology, and biology. He noted that
the division also runs three shooting ranges, and it maintains a
"small waterfowl program."
MR. ROBUS told the committees that the division also has a
nongame assessment program which can help prevent endangered
species listings. Such listings could negatively impact
development activities and the ability to harvest other species.
MR. ROBUS discussed funding sources such as tags and other user
fees, long-term grants under the federal Pitman-Robertson Act, a
new annual grant program that primarily funds nongame projects,
and special appropriations from Congress.
2:02:18 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS inquired if state wildlife grants and Pittman-
Robertson come through matching-fund formulas, and if the state
is getting the maximum federal dollars available.
MR. ROBUS answered that the programs do come through matching-
fund formulas and that the state is receiving its maximum
Pittman-Robertson dollars but not the maximum for state wildlife
grants because those were difficult to match.
SENATOR SEEKINS asked how much is available in the state
wildlife grants.
MR. ROBUS said about $3 million.
2:04:50 PM
MR. ROBUS added that ADF&G has communicated with legislators
about its fiscal challenges. He said the department has to
"live from year to year" from hunting and fishing licensing
monies. He opined that there are near and long-term negative
impacts to the division's core programs. He stated a desire to
see a license-fee increase bill to fund core wildlife management
activities. In response to Senator Seekins, Mr. Robus said the
division spends about three dollars for every dollar the state
brings in for indoor shooting ranges. Outdoor ranges are
cheaper, he noted. At present time, he said, the ranges need a
$600,000 expenditure.
2:07:06 PM
LANDA BAILY, Executive Director, Board of Game, Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, reported that the Boards Support
Section "does everything they can" to keep the public apprised
of meetings and actions, adding that there is a website for the
public.
2:09:14 PM
SENATOR SEEKINS asked if the Board Support Section is properly
funded.
MS. BAILEY said it is operating on less than it was two years
ago. She reported that the division is requesting a $100,000
budget increase because it is not able to do everything, such as
holding its meetings in smaller towns and villages.
SENATOR SEEKINS opined that the job is larger than "we are able
to accomplish" with the current funding.
The committee took an at-ease from 2:13 to 2:15.
^Department of Natural Resources
2:15:02 PM
TOM IRWIN, Commissioner, Department of Natural Resources (DNR),
said he would present information to give an understanding of
the department's responsibilities. He said DNR's mission is to
develop, conserve, and maximize use of Alaska's natural
resources, consistent with the public interest.
2:18:17 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN reported that DNR follows its missions and
measures, and updates them quarterly. He characterized DNR as
the "business arm of the state." He told the committee that DNR
ensures resource development, planning, management, and new
project approvals based on sound science, prudent management,
and meaningful public involvement. He said DNR follows the
principles of resource sustainability and multiple-use
management.
COMMISSIONER IRWIN maintained that businesses come to Alaska for
high investment return, cash flow, and security. He quoted the
"Wall Street Journal" as follows: "Government is a key part of
society and vital to all of us, but it makes no money on its
own. Successful businesses are the engine of a healthy economy,
and government is a support for that engine." Commissioner
Irwin believes resource development is the economic engine of
Alaska. "That is where our value is at," he said, and the state
understands it has a vital role in creating a positive business
environment by providing certainty and reliability, reducing
delays, and eliminating unnecessary standards.
COMMISSIONER IRWIN said that the Alaska Coastal Management
Program (ACMP) was moved to DNR to streamline the process of
permit development in coastal Alaska and make it more objective.
He complemented his staff on their hard work. He pointed out
that DNR took on habitat management duties from the Alaska
Department of Fish & Game, and last year the office operated
with 18 percent less staff and an 11 percent lower budget but
still exceeded its targets. He said that more than 99 percent
of the applications for Title 41 permits were approved.
Commissioner Irwin said he did not hear one elevation, and "the
sky didn't fall" when ADF&G's Division of Habitat was moved to
DNR.
2:23:07 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN discussed initiatives, and added that DNR has
a new approach to expedite large mine permits. He gave an
example of a company coming to Alaska that was able to drill a
well within a year of its lease purchase.
2:25:24 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN handed out an organizational flow chart for
DNR, and pointed out what he thought were key issues. He said,
"Parks could take a whole session." Alaska has 4 million
visitors to its parks. Alaskans comprise 80 percent of the
visitation. "Our goal is to keep [the parks] open," he said.
Agriculture will have a new director. He said significant
issues include mad cow disease in Canada, problems with closing
the border with Canada, milk prices, and others. He turned to
oil and gas and highlighted what he saw as major issues: Alaska
has significant gas reserves and an opportunity to build a gas
line. He related his belief that operations have to be managed
well and "as a business." With the Department of Revenue, DNR
developed a complex economic model to analyze the gas line.
COMMISSIONER IRWIN opined that another key issue is
TransCanada's application for a gas line right-of-way to the
border. He said that the public commented on a draft lease
produced by DNR, and that comments were generally supportive of
a gas line. Comments focused on Native hire, community access
to the gas, and disturbance to wildlife.
2:31:28 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN reported that DNR's Division of Oil and Gas
conducted fieldwork on the Alaska Peninsula with encouraging
results. DNR is moving forward on an oil and gas lease sale
there.
2:33:54 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN informed the committees that DNR was able to
open the coastal plain three week earlier than usual, giving
producers 20 percent more time in the field. The department
also worked with Conoco-Phillips Alaska, Inc. to pre-pack ice
roads in advance of the "tundra opening," giving them more time
to build roads. He said "this type of innovation between state
and business" can help move forward the state's business of
developing its gas.
2:36:10 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN stated that current large mines in Alaska
include Red Dog, Greens Creek, Usabelli, Fort Knox, and True
North mines. The Pogo project is under construction, and there
is headway in other potential large mines. He said that Alaska
mineral exploration is increasing because the price of ore is up
and the state's business environment is better. Last fiscal
year over 4,300 new state mining claims were located. Since
July 1, another 2,500 claims were located. The total staked in
15 months was 880,000 acres, he said.
2:38:11 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN discussed the Northern Alaska Environmental
Center's (NAEC) appeal of mining activity at the Pogo mine. He
said government and businesses cooperated to convince NAEC to
withdraw its appeal. "If there is any doubt that responsible
resource development is welcome in Alaska, then that doubt
should have been totally removed," he said.
2:39:55 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN moved on to Alaskan timber issues. He opined
that the Tongass National Forest should be "responsibly open."
Although the state does not control this issue, he thinks the
state can push it. "I think it is a travesty when you have a
renewable resource...let it get old, get infested, rot, have
huge fire potential, and never get the real value out of it," he
remarked.
2:41:15 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN said that the state has a priority in
transferring state lands to private ownership. In fiscal year
2004, revenue for land sales was over $7 million, the highest in
15 years. He stated that DNR has a target of moving 500,000
acres of state land to municipalities in 2005.
2:44:04 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN reported that DNR has filed 13 applications
for recordable disclaimers with the federal Bureau of Land
Management (BLM). The applications cover 31 water bodies, and
BLM has issued disclaimers for three of the applications.
Commissioner Irwin said that these are the first three
recordable disclaimers in the nation, which he believes
establishes a pattern. Alaska is "establishing our rights," he
remarked. The department was "less successful" with Revised
Statute 2477, and DNR is working with the Attorney General's
office on lawsuits "to establish state's rights."
COMMISSIONER IRWIN reported that 6.4 million acres burned in
Alaska in 2004. There were over 3,000 firefighters working in
Alaska, and there were no serious injuries to report. But not
everything went right, said Commissioner Irwin, and he suggested
that the legislature have discussions on fire, and he
recommended reading "FIRE IN ALASKA, A HISTORY OF ORGANIZED FIRE
SUPPRESSION IN THE LAST FRONTIER."
2:48:26 PM
COMMISSIONER IRWIN acknowledged that fires are going to burn,
pointing out that Alaska had a record 12,000 lightening strikes
in one day last year. He stated his belief that some fires
should be left to burn and some need to be suppressed. He noted
that increasing numbers of homes and development expand the
critical response areas, which are costly to protect from fire.
He warned that the Anchorage Bowl and the Kenai "could have
California-type fires." He mentioned a "fire-wise" program.
2:52:02 PM
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS thanked Commissioner Irwin for getting the Pogo
mine back going.
The committee took an at-ease from 2:52 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the Joint
meeting of the House Resources Standing Committee and the Senate
Resources Standing Committee was adjourned at 3:00:15 PM. A
lesson on natural gas following this meeting was not recorded.
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