03/31/2004 01:05 PM House RES

Audio	Topic

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled

Schedule
Detailed Minutes
Documents
Doc

pdf txt

ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE March 31, 2004 1:05 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Nancy Dahlstrom, Co-Chair Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair Representative Cheryll Heinze, Vice Chair Representative Carl Gatto Representative Bob Lynn Representative Nick Stepovich Representative Kelly Wolf Representative Beth Kerttula Representative David Guttenberg MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 36 Requesting the National Park Service to mitigate the adverse economic effects of commercial fishing closures and restrictions in Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve. - MOVED HJR 36 OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 41 Relating to support for the Federal Land Recreational Visitor Protection Act. - MOVED CSHJR 41(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 309 "An Act prohibiting the release of nonindigenous predatory fish into public water." - HEARD AND HELD HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 27 Relating to Take a Young Person Hunting Week. - MOVED CSHCR 27(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 44 Relating to research into the decline of the Southwest Alaska population of the Northern Sea Otter in the western Gulf of Alaska. - MOVED CSHJR 44(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION BILL: HJR 36 SHORT TITLE: MITIGATING GLACIER BAY FISHING CLOSURES SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WEYHRAUCH 02/05/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/05/04 (H) FSH, RES 02/11/04 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124 02/11/04 (H) -- Meeting Canceled -- 02/25/04 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124 02/25/04 (H) Moved Out of Committee 02/25/04 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 02/26/04 (H) FSH RPT 5DP 02/26/04 (H) DP: OGG, SAMUELS, GUTTENBERG, WILSON, 02/26/04 (H) SEATON 03/05/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 03/05/04 (H) Heard & Held 03/05/04 (H) MINUTE(RES) 03/31/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HJR 41 SHORT TITLE: LAND RECREATIONAL VISITOR PROTECTION ACT SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KERTTULA 02/16/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 02/16/04 (H) RES 03/31/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HB 309 SHORT TITLE: PROHIBIT RELEASE OF PREDATORY FISH SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WOLF 05/08/03 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 05/08/03 (H) FSH, RES 05/16/03 (H) FSH AT 7:30 AM CAPITOL 124 05/16/03 (H) Heard & Held 05/16/03 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 03/22/04 (H) FSH AT 9:00 AM CAPITOL 124 03/22/04 (H) Moved CSHB 309(FSH) Out of Committee 03/22/04 (H) MINUTE(FSH) 03/24/04 (H) FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 3DP 2NR 03/24/04 (H) DP: GARA, WILSON, SEATON; NR: OGG, 03/24/04 (H) GUTTENBERG 03/31/04 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 BILL: HCR 27 SHORT TITLE: TAKE A YOUNG PERSON HUNTING WEEK SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WOLF 01/20/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS

01/20/04 (H) RES BILL: HJR SHORT TITLE: SEA OTTER RESEARCH/ENDANGERED SPECIES SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES BY REQUEST WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE BRUCE WEYHRAUCH Alaska State Legislature Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as the sponsor of ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 04-17, SIDE A Number 0001 CO-CHAIR NANCY DAHLSTROM called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. Representatives Masek, Dahlstrom, Gatto, Stepovich, Wolf, and Kerttula were present at the call to order. Representatives Heinze, Lynn, and Guttenberg arrived as the meeting was in progress. HJR CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 36, Requesting the National Park Service to mitigate the adverse economic effects of commercial fishing closures and restrictions in Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve. Number 0106 REPRESENTATIVE BRUCE WEYHRAUCH, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, presented HJR CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 41, Relating to support for the Federal Land Recreational Visitor Protection Act. Number 0525 REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA, sponsor of HJR Alaska does have the highest per capita death from avalanche rate, which is not a statistic we're particularly proud of. This legislature and previous legislatures have shown a commitment to avalanche safety by designating November as avalanche awareness month. We did a bill just this year, and have done resolutions in the past. All of those have passed unanimously. But, we do need to do more for avalanche safety. Senator Stevens [U.S. Congress] has introduced S. 931 ... in April of 2003. It sits currently in the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources and has not had a hearing. ... What we would like to do with our resolution is send the message that this is also a priority for Alaska. Number 0763 STEVE HANDY, Juneau Mountain Rescue, testified: Juneau Mountain Rescue is responsible for snow and avalanche search and rescue operations in the Juneau operational area, which is rather large. It covers a great amount of area where people recreate in the snow skiing, snowboarding, [and] snow machining. We're also responsible for high angle technical rescue and back country search and rescue operations. Many resources are put at risk during these search and rescue operations. Again, I'm here to speak on behalf of the search and rescue community -- we're the guys who go out there, it's not the fire department or anybody else, it's Juneau Mountain Rescue or maybe PJ's - Air Force para-rescue jumpers. The knowledge and training and resources proposed by this bill [resolution] would not only have a tremendous impact on reducing the number of injuries [and] deaths ... caused to those who are recreating in the outback, but, from my perspective, it would also reduce the exposure of rescue individuals to these same things. When you go out there, after an avalanche has ripped, all that tells you is that another one's going to go too, or it's high probable .... Granted, that we do exercise great safety and we generally don't jeopardize our own lives knowingly, we're still out there. We use a large number of resources, including Army resources, private helicopter operations, ... whatever we can to get out there. I know, from my own exposure, and I live and play and work in the outback, I know that my friends and colleagues, through the efforts of the national ski patrol and Bill Glude's operation [Southeast Alaska Avalanche Center] with the avalanche research center, this education, this training, at this level, has greatly reduced a number of operations. We can't measure how many haven't happened. However, if the resources are allocated, if we have these resources and this training can grow to spread out statewide, then it can have nothing but a ... huge impact on taking away our dubious title as the number one state for avalanche deaths. Number 0979 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG referred to page 2 of the resolution, [line 4] where the National Park System is mentioned and asked if Mr. Handy could compare the avalanche problems in the National Park System with those outside of the system. MR. HANDY replied that he could not but added that those who recreate in those areas don't know the difference either. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked how often the rescuers themselves have to be rescued. MR. HANDY stated that in the course of his five years of experience, they had not had one incident where this happened. He attributed this success to training. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO noted that he believed that in the fire department's experience and statistically, the number of rescuers that die exceeds the number of people rescued. MR. HANDY was not familiar with these statistics but noted that he believes the training and resources that would be made available by the passage of HB CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE BILL NO. 309, "An Act prohibiting the release of nonindigenous predatory fish into public water." [Before the committee was CSHB Number 1956 CO-CHAIR MASEK moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS), labeled 23-LS1097\W, Utermohle, 3/23/04, as the work draft. There being no objection, Version W was before the committee. Number 1974 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF, speaking as sponsor, explained that is a bill involving [nonindigenous] fish. He said Southcentral Alaska, including the Matanuska-Susitna Valley and the Kenai Peninsula, have been facing a problem concerning Northern Pike and other species, specifically, Yellow Perch. Representative Wolf said this bill would give more "teeth" to the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) to try to [discourage] people from using "bucket biology." He noted that the bill does not involve any commercial fishing activities that currently take place in Alaska. He said he believes ADF&G is in support of the bill. Number 2607 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked about the difference between Version W and [CSHB REPRESENTATIVE WOLF explained that concerns were expressed in the House Special Committee on Fisheries with respect to current commercial fisheries activities involving the transportation of live crab and [live crab] eggs. He said the [House Special Committee on Fisheries] made sure that current activities involving commercial fisheries in Alaska were not affected and amended the bill to include a felony fine of not less $1500. Number 2126 REPRESENTATIVE LYNN turned attention to page 1, line 10, and asked if a [nonindigenous] fish were caught, could it be released, even if it shouldn't be [in that water system] in the first place. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said the bill does not involve catch-and- release fisheries. He indicated that the purpose of the bill is to address the transportation of [nonindigenous] fish from one area to another. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked if a [nonindigenous] fish could be released in the same water it was caught in. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF turned attention to page 1, [lines 4-6], and he said this does not prevent [participation] in a catch-and release fishery. Number 2212 DOUG VINCENT-LANG, Assistant Director, Division of Sport Fish, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), testified. Mr. Vincent-Lang said the [bill] would not hold a person eligible for a class C felony and a $1500 fine for releasing a [nonindigenous] fish that had been caught inadvertently. He said the bill is basically crafted to prevent people from stocking [nonindigenous fish] initially. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked Mr. Vincent-Lang to explain [page 1], line 10. MR. VINCENT-LANG explained, for example, if an individual caught a [nonindigenous] pike in Sand Lake and released it back into that lake, that individual would be excluded from this law and would not be held accountable for releasing the fish caught in that lake. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked if it would apply even though the [nonindigenous fish] shouldn't be there to begin with, [and by not releasing the nonindigenous fish back into the water in which it were caught] would be helping to clear the lake out of that [species of nonindigenous] fish. MR. VINCENT-LANG said [ADF&G] could have regulations to help clear the lake out [if desired], but it would exclude those anglers from being penalized. Number 2279 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF directed attention to page 1, [lines 8-11], and he said this does not apply to catch-and-release fisheries. REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH suggested that language on [page 1], line 12, contradicts language in subsection (b), with regard to "ornamental fish". He asked for an example of an ornamental fish. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF explained that ornamental fish include tetras, goldfish, guppies, and so forth. MR. VINCENT-LANG explained that his understanding is that [paragraph (1)] basically excludes ornamental fish from subsection (a), while [subsection (b)] goes on to say a person may not knowingly rear or release live ornamental fish in state waters. He said gar, for example, are fully capable of reproducing in Anchorage area lakes, and [ADF&G] does not want somebody releasing their pet gar into an Anchorage lake or rearing those gar in a pond in their back yard. Mr. Vincent- Lang said [ornamental fish] that are possessed and transported for the purpose of keeping in an aquarium should be excluded from a class C felony. He said [ornamental fish] can be predatory or can carry diseases, which may be a threat to native species. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said Representative Stepovich raises a good point, and because it is a criminal statute it becomes even more important. She said she thought there might be some confusion between [subsections] (a) and (b), because [subsection] (a) exempts ornamental fish from being knowingly released, while [subsection] (b) says [ornamental fish] may not knowingly be released, and [subsection] (c) is a class C felony. She asked how it all works together. MR. VINCENT-LANG said his understanding is that [subsection (b)] is specific about the activities that can't be done with ornamental fish, and he indicated the language could possibly be cleaned up so that only [one section] deals with ornamental fish. He said [ADF&G] didn't want people to be rearing or releasing ornamental fish in bodies of water that could potentially cause damage to native fish or release parasites. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she thought it had to be changed because subsection (a) clearly allows the release of ornamental fish. She said she thought a defense attorney, in representing a client, would "walk through that," so it needs to be changed so it is clear that ornamental fish cannot be released. Representative Kerttula asked why [a violation] is a class C felony, and if other states punish it this harshly. She asked why it is just "knowingly", rather than having state of mind," and suggested, "If it is going to be a felony, shouldn't it an intentional action instead of it just a knowing action." MR. VINCENT-LANG said [ADF&G] is very concerned about the release of [nonindigenous] fish and the impact on the resources of Alaska. He said the level of penalty setting is [the legislature's] jurisdiction and responsibility. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked what other state's penalties are for the release of nonindigenous fish. She said she knows it's serious, but she thought a class C felony is normally used for a fairly serious assault. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said a lake on the Kenai Peninsula was knowingly deposited with Yellow Perch, and it cost [ADF&G] about $40,000 to exterminate the lake with Rotenone. He said the [Yellow Perch] have now moved into the Moose River, a spawning system for coho salmon. He said [coho salmon] are part of a sport fishery, which directly affects the guiding industry, which affects people's lives. Number 2594 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO offered some examples of other offenses punishable by a class C felony, as follows: Unlawful furnishing of explosives; possession of child pornography; incest; sexual assault in the third degree; tampering with a witness; endangering the welfare of a child; sexual abuse of a minor; and assault. He said he has a problem with the introduction of a [nonindigenous] fish being equal to all of those absolutely notorious indications of what qualify as a class C felony. He said he thinks if this goes to court, it is an overreach. REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH offered an example of a child unintentionally releasing a goldfish into Alaskan waters, and he expressed concerns about [the bill] applying to minors or someone without "expertise." REPRESENTATIVE WOLF noted that some of the points raised had not been considered previously. He said some other members had suggested that the bill be referred to the House Judiciary Standing Committee with regard to the class C felony. Number 2726 CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM suggested Representative Wolf's intent was good, and she said these [issues] are taken very seriously. MR. VINCENT-LANG said ADF&G supports the concepts behind this bill and see it as an increasing problem across Alaska. He said the problem can't be dealt with on a "recover be dealt with on a "preventative basis." conceptual amendment had been passed previously that dealt with lines 3 and 13. He said [ADF&G] is not opposed to limiting [subparagraph] (3) to saltwater commercial fishing and could not think of any instances in which commercial fishermen are currently moving live fish around or of instances in which it would be good [to do so]. CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM asked Representative Wolf to take that into consideration while working with the bill. Co-Chair Dahlstrom said [the committee] does realize the seriousness of this and appreciates the department's support. [HB The gavel was passed to Co-Chair Masek. HCR CO-CHAIR MASEK announced that the next order of business would be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 27, Relating to Take a Young Person Hunting Week. Number 2831 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF, speaking as the sponsor of explained that the intent of HJR CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM announced that the final order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 44, Relating to research into the decline of the Southwest Alaska population of the Northern Sea Otter in the western Gulf of Alaska. Number 2699 REPRESENTATIVE DAN OGG, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor 44, I'm here today presenting a resolution number 44 that relates to the Northern sea otter in the Western Gulf of Alaska. ... They are a voracious animal; they eat lots of shellfish; they eat many times their weight in seafood every day. What the problem here, isn't that, and it's not that they are cuddly. It's that their numbers have been declining since the 1970s, as much as 65 percent in a section of the state that goes from about the tip of the Kenai Peninsula and heads out into the Aleutian Islands ... That would include the southern coast of the Alaska Peninsula, Kodiak Island, and then the islands as they go out into quite an extensive area. What the resolution is addressing is saying that the Fish and wildlife service has recognized this decline and that they have noticed them for being listed as a threatened species. The impact of being a threatened species is that potential to shut down the commercial fisheries in that area. What this resolution says is that we would like to urge the Federal Government, through [the] U.S. Congress, to provide some funding into the research on these fuzzy, cuddly creatures so we can find out exactly what was going on with them. Why we're doing it this time is to try to be proactive. The last creature that went into threatened status and endangered was the Steller sea lion in the same area. We were not proactive, we were reactive, and some of our fisheries were shut down because we didn't have the research on these particular animals, the sea lion. In talks with [U.S.] Senator Stevens' staff who funded the Steller sea lion research close to $100,000,000 over a recent period of time. They would like to have some documentation as to what it would take to get a research program up and going before we get into that period where [we are] being reactive. We talked with folks with the FITC in Kodiak, which is the Fishery Industrial Technology [Center] arm for the University of Alaska and they indicated certain areas where work could be done and should be done. We have included their recommendations in the resolution and, with a sum of about $5,000,000 per year that would be spread out for five years. Research would be centered around FITC; they would coordinate it. It would stretch from the southern end of the Kenai Peninsula out into the Aleutians. Number 2535 REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH asked if Representative Ogg had already identified the source for the money in the federal budget. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied that Senator Stevens' staff had requested a proposal that would justify the funding. He said: We did the background work, put a resolution together, and gave them a document they could put on the table and say, "Here's a reason, and here's some numbers that justify it, and here's a research program that would work out there." It would be through the Fish and wildlife service. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK asked how much funding was spent on Steller sea lion [research] and whether this funding could be used for [research] on northern sea otters. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied that there has been research done in an eco-system model, regarding relationships between the fishing industry and the sea lion, between sea lions and their prey, and between the sea lions and their predators. They did not focus on the sea otter, except in a peripheral manner. This resolution aims at a better understanding of the sea otter's ecosystem. Number 2420 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said he wondered how many sea lions and sea otters were being killed by Orcas. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied that tags from sea lion pups have been found in the bellies of Orcas that washed up on beaches in Prince William Sound. He noted that it is difficult to "follow a pod of Orcas around" to gather information. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF indicated that sea lions are a favorite food of Orcas. He was concerned that environmental groups were blaming the fishing industry as being the killers of sea lions and sea otters. He feels that the growing population of Orcas is responsible. He said: These environmental groups are making a tremendous amount of money from selling the idea that these horrible commercial fishermen are the reason [for] the decline. It's not a natural predator like the Orca. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied: You're exactly right. That's exactly what this aims at. When we did the sea lion one the groups went to federal court and they said, "It's declining, it's the fishing industry." There was no empirical evidence or scientific evidence to say yes or no. We're dealing in a situation where people just dealt with innuendo. The court in that situation says, "I'm not going to take a chance here. I'm going to err on the conservative side, like our fisheries managers always do, if you don't have the answer you err." So, they just created big zones around our work areas. Which, once we got the fishing research money through the federal government, those things started closing down, because, after you got the research you found out no, it wasn't fishing that was causing the problem, it's something in the environment and that nature. That's why we're pushing this. We want to be ahead of the curve this time, instead of being in court under innuendo. We want to help our fishing industry. Number 2221 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO wondered if it was fair for the people doing the research to also be the people living in the communities affected. He asked if the researchers should come from the inland, since the coastal community stood to gain the most as well as receiving the research monies. REPRESENTATIVE STEPOVICH noted that $25,000,000 is a lot of money, and he wondered if the money could be used for other projects as well. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied: If Senator Stevens decides, and the fish and wildlife service decides, that this is an appropriate place to put the money, it will run through the fish and wildlife service and then they will determine, usually by grants, ... where these funds will be expended. I can tell you that the sea lion research ... was done by the University of Alaska, some done by British Columbia, through a consortium university, and folks going out on charter, but mostly into scientists and in the field research. Some into charters for getting people onto these rookeries and off of them. It's not like they are going to drop $5,000,000 in Kodiak. It's just that's the area we want to center. There are programs going on there. The National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) is involved right now in the Steller sea lion one and they'll probably track along with that and use economies. They needed a number and a period of time. This is a lot smaller number than the Steller sea lion number. They may adjust it when they have comments with fish and wildlife. Number 2066 REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked how it was decided to request $5 million per year. REPRESENTATIVE OGG replied: Those numbers came from the folks at FITC. ... The person working on the sea lions, working with fish and wildlife service, said, "Here's how a program could work. This would address the problems, and here's the amount of money [we] think that would cover it." ... This will end up on Senator Stevens' desk, Senator Murkowski's desk, and they'll make the appropriate relationships. Then fish and wildlife "circle" will come in and maybe they'll say, "$5,000,000 is too much; we can do it for $4,000,000," but you have to put something out. Number 2005 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG turned attention to page 2, and asked if the sponsor wished to add the appropriations' chair or the resource committee chairs to the copies distribution. REPRESENTATIVE OGG noted that he had no objection to this. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG moved Conceptual Amendment 1 that would include the chairs of the resource committees in the House and Senate of the United States Congress. Number 1941 CO-CHAIR DAHLSTROM noted there were no objections and Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted. CO-CHAIR MASEK REPRESENTATIVE moved to report 44(RES) Committee. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the committee, the House Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:15 p.m.

Document Name Date/Time Subjects