Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/16/1998 01:27 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 16, 1998
1:27 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
Representative William K. (Bill) Williams
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS:
Board of Game
Eric Williamson - Anchorage
- CONFIRMATION HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
ERIC WILLIAMSON, Appointee
to the Board of Game
12720 Lupine Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99516
Telephone: (907) 345-7678
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of Game.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-48, SIDE A
Number 001
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:27 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Masek, Barnes,
Dyson, Williams and Joule. Representatives Green and Nicholia
arrived at 1:20 p.m. and 1:32 p.m., respectively.
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the committee would take up the
appointee to the Board of Game, Eric Williamson.
ERIC WILLIAMSON, appointee to the Board of Game, stated he is a
registered guide, a lifelong hunter and has served as an elected
member of the Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee for the
past five years. He brings the perspective of a commercial user to
the board which has been absent in recent years. He recognizes a
monetary and cultural value to not only wildlife itself, but to
intact wildlife habitats. The struggle over wildlife policy and
regulations from various user groups over the years has muddled the
core issue - conservation of wildlife populations. The board
system provides excellent opportunities for participation by local
fish and game advisory committees, organizations, and the concerned
public. The board's strength is its accessibility for public,
agency, and scientific input. Having served three terms on the
Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory Committee, it has allowed him to
understand the issues important to various interests groups,
particularly in Southcentral. As a member of the Board of the
Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association, he has
learned to listen to public and agency information, and to make
appropriate decisions as a group. He was appointed in March to the
Board of Game and sat on the board at the spring meeting in
Fairbanks. In conclusion, he stated he is very willing and
committed to the board process.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the arrival of Representative Green.
Number 095
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of
guide is he.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he has hunting, fishing and wildlife
watching programs - 50 percent is hunting, 45 percent is fishing,
and 5 percent is wildlife watching.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what kind of hunting.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied grizzly bear, moose, caribou, black bear and
wolf.
Number 099
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson about the Holitna River
drainage "bone-in-bone-out" issue addressed at the board meeting.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was not part of the deliberations. The
Holitna River is part of his guide area, therefore, there was a
conflict of interest. When the issue was first brought up last
spring, he was on the committee that the board set up to look at
it. There were several aspects of the issue. He cited controlling
air access as an example. As a guide, it would affect him even
though he is not a pilot because he usually charters a float plane.
The local residents were having a problem with the drop-off,
unguided float trips. He was in between the factions on the
committee, but the committee was able to come up with some
compromises which included the "bone-in" regulation.
Number 143
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson when the committee he
served on was making recommendations to the board did he ever read
the law.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied no not at that point.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether he has read the
law since then.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson to state what the law
says.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied it says that the meat has to be salvaged.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated that is not all the law says. She
asked Mr. Williamson to tell the committee members what the rest of
the law says.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the law says all the meat on the front and
hind quarters has to be salvaged - neck, ribs and back straps.
Number 173
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said, "You're asking us to confirm you to the
Board of Game and you have participated by your own testimony in
establishing a regulation--recommending a regulation that went
before the board which you are now seeking to become part of.
Could you tell us what the law says about the bone?"
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is not sure whether he can get the names
of the bones right. The law says the meat must be salvaged above
the knees, ribs, neck and back straps.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the law says the meat must be
salvaged, but the law on its face does not include the bone. She
asked Mr. Williamson how he could recommend that the board violate
the law in good conscience.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the board receives its authority from the
legislature and recognizes that it has to follow the laws. It also
takes advise from the Department of Law, and according to advise
from the department, it was determined to be within the law.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated it is not within the law. It does not
matter what any attorney general says when a law is clear on its
face. The legislature has an opinion from its attorneys that says
just the opposite. "You as board members swearing to uphold the
laws of the state of Alaska, how can you sit there and tell me that
you got a--taken an opinion from the Department of Law based upon
the law that's clear on its face that says, 'this does not include
bone, sinew, etc.'"
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the legal matters seem to be quite
confusing. The law appears to be clear. The regulation was passed
a year ago and the Department of Law has given its reading on it.
It is a difficult situation, but the board uses the department for
advise.
Number 251
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated she could never support a confirmation
of any member of a board who would choose to follow what the
Department of Law says versus what the law says on its face.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated the Legislative Council Joint
Committee took up the issue. Her understanding of the March
meeting is that the board said it was okay to not carry the bones
out in the winter, but not in the summer. It makes no sense
whatsoever. She will never vote for another person to any board
who cannot sit in front of a committee and say, "I will follow the
law, not what an attorney tells me, but what the law says and its
clear on its face."
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced that Representative Nicholia has been
at the meeting for sometime now.
Number 274
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson in what capacity was he
involved with the issue.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he did not have a strong feeling about the
"bone-and-the-meat" issue. Originally, the proposal said there
wouldn't be any air access into Unit 19B - the part he was
concerned about.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Mr. Williamson whether he was a member of
the advisory committee.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "No." He was there as an individual and
guide.
Number 302
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he is
involved with the actual taking of game.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied as a guide he sells a hunt. There is no
guarantee of success. The trophy is an important part of what
hunters want. It serves as a memory and concrete memento of the
hunter's experience in Alaska. There is a whole range of services
and skills that he has to be able to provide in order for a
satisfying hunt.
Number 323
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was wondering whether Mr. Williamson
guides to take pictures, for example, or to actually harvest a
trophy or meat.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied the bottom-line is to get an animal.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained he asked because Mr. Williamson is
a board member of the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism
Association. There is concern among the members of the committee
that it might bias him towards one end of the spectrum. He asked
Mr. Williamson whether he is still a member of the association.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he is a member of the association, but he
has resigned from the board. His role on the board was to
represent hunting, transporting, and sport fishing interests, as
well as to use his knowledge of the board process and fish and game
policies. The Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association
is primarily for nonconsumptive, small-scale, sustainable tourism.
He feels there are a lot of concerns that overlap guided hunts and
"lolly gags" in the wilderness - wildlife habitat and populations.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he doesn't mean to demean that as an
activity. He just wanted to be sure that his association with the
Alaska Wilderness Recreation and Tourism Association would not bias
his opinions.
Number 364
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON explained to Representative Green that Mr.
Williamson already noted the percentage of his activities as a
guide.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he was concerned that part of the hunt
was pictorial.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson when drafting wolf
management policy would it be as a predator control, preservation,
or something in between. There have been efforts made to reduce
predator impacts in certain areas that have started to diminish the
game. He wondered how Mr. Williamson would handle a problem like
that.
Number 380
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he believes in wildlife management which is
why he is interested in a position on the board. The Board of Game
has a mandate for intensive management in instances where it has
been identified as an area of high importance for human consumptive
use.
Number 391
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Williamson whether he would support
that as opposed to maybe trying....
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." He would support whatever measures
are taken for intensive management.
Number 393
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES gave Mr. Williamson the section of the
statute that defines the term "edible meat" and asked him to read
it aloud.
MR. WILLIAMSON read the following:
"AS 16.30.030. Definitions. 'edible meat' means, in the
case of big game animals, the meat of the ribs, neck,
brisket, front quarters as far as the distal joint of the
radius-ulna (knee), hindquarters as far as the distal
joint of the tibia-fibula (hock), and that portion of the
animal between the front and hindquarters; in the case of
water fowl, the meat of the breast; however, 'edible
meat' of big game or wild fowl does not include
(A) meat of the head;
(B) meat that has been damaged and made
inedible by the method of taking;
(C) bones, sinew, and incidental meat reasonably
lost as a result of boning or a close trimming
of the bones;
(D) viscera;"
Number 414
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson whether the law is
pretty clear.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes."
Number 416
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES read the following from a legal opinion:
"Under As 16.30.020, the legislature has expressly
authorized the Game Board to modify the wanton waste
statute. In so doing, however, the permitted
modifications are in the way of making exceptions to the
requirements of the statute by animal or by species, a
relaxation of the terms that define the criminal act, and
are not by way of authorizing the Board to extend the
criminal statute to make its provisions more stringent.
"Because the regulation in question has arguably not been
construed by the Game Board in 'pari matria' with the
existing statute defining conduct constituting a criminal
offense, the regulation may be viewed as one that fails
to comply with 'standards prescribed by other provisions
of the law," the test of the second requirement of AS
44.62.020 and, on that basis, may be determined to be
invalid."
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked Mr. Williamson what he thinks about the
regulation adopted by the Board of Game after reading the law and
an opinion from Legislative Legal Services.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "I guess the Board of Game probably needs
to take another look at that" he said.
Number 444
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN stated he always admires and thanks anyone
willing to serve the state. It is a very difficult job, mostly
thankless, and one has to put up with the confirmation process. He
noted that none of it is personal.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there has been a lot of discussion in the
legislature about the authority delated to the Board of Game. The
legislature is very concerned about restricting traditional access
into different areas. Personally, he believes there are enough
acres set aside for those who want a pure wilderness experience
without any motorized vehicles. He asked Mr. Williamson what his
position is on restricting access in Unit 13 - the subsistence area
of urban Alaskans.
Number 469
MR. WILLIAMSON replied he was at the board meeting last fall and
there was quite a turnout for it. There was also quite a turnout
for the Anchorage Advisory Committee. The testimony was pretty
much in favor of outdoor recreation vehicle use (ORV) in Unit 13.
There was some testimony from hunters who were disturbed by it
because they want to walk in. He has read the board's jurisdiction
and sees that there has to a biological problem or a chronic
conflict. It appears that neither of the conditions exist.
Nevertheless, setting up the committee was proactive because it
appears that its use is increasing.
Number 498
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Williamson whether he guides for wolves.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied if he comes across a wolf he will urge his
client to shoot it because he considers it a fine trophy.
Number 503
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated he was interested because he has not heard
of anybody guiding for wolves specifically. He understands it is
an incidental take. He wrote the law and tag fee for out-of-state
residents.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated there are a lot of people from rural Alaska
who can't put food on their tables because of the wolf predation
problem. The Governor refuses to do anything about it other than
to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on studies from outside
firms. He asked Mr. Williamson, if it got to the point of managing
wildlife and kowtowing to a tourism boycott threat, would he
implement intensive management in spite of the threats.
Number 516
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, "Yes." As a member of the Board of Game,
its clear he would use the data and testimony from the local
residents. The position that the Alaska Wilderness Recreation and
Tourism Association took was for its members. It was a very tough
position to take; there were many members opposed to it who were
hunters or who felt it was a subsistence issue. It was an attempt
to defuse the tourism boycott which was real.
Number 542
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK referred to the ballot initiative to
prohibit the use of snares, and asked Mr. Williamson his position
on the initiative.
MR. WILLIAMSON replied, principally, he is opposed to initiatives
for wildlife management. Trapping is an honorable lifestyle and
very important to bush residents. Snaring is valuable for predator
management. Therefore, he is very much opposed to the language of
the ballot initiative.
Number 559
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON recessed the meeting to the call of either co-
chairman at 1:58 p.m.
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