Legislature(1997 - 1998)
01/30/1997 01:07 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
January 30, 1997
1:07 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
Representative William K. ("Bill") Williams
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 12
Urging the Secretary of the Interior to conduct competitive oil and
gas lease sales within the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.
- MOVED HJR 12 OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 46
"An Act relating to mining; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 46(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 26
"An Act relating to big game tags for wolves; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED HB 26 OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 17
"An Act establishing the Department of Natural Resources as the
platting authority in certain areas of the state; relating to
subdivisions and dedications; and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 17(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HJR 12
SHORT TITLE: LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN, Hodgins, Ryan, Bunde, Ogan
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/15/97 66 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/15/97 66 (H) OIL & GAS, RESOURCES
01/23/97 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
01/23/97 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
01/24/97 135 (H) O&G RPT 7DP
01/24/97 135 (H) DP: BUNDE, OGAN, BRICE, RYAN, KEMPLEN
01/24/97 135 (H) HODGINS, ROKEBERG
01/24/97 135 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (LAA)
01/24/97 135 (H) REFERRED TO RESOURCES
01/24/97 139 (H) COSPONSOR(S): RYAN, BUNDE
01/27/97 153 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OGAN
01/30/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 46
SHORT TITLE: MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY, THERRIAULT
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/13/97 40 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97
01/13/97 40 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/13/97 40 (H) RESOURCES
01/23/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/23/97 (H) MINUTE(RES)
01/30/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 26
SHORT TITLE: BIG GAME TAGS FOR WOLVES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGAN
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/13/97 34 (H) PREFILE RELEASE 1/3/97
01/13/97 34 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/13/97 34 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE
01/23/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/23/97 (H) MINUTE(RES)
01/30/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 17
SHORT TITLE: DNR APPROVAL OF PLATS IN UNORG BOROUGH
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/13/97 31 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97
01/13/97 31 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/13/97 31 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE
01/23/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/23/97 (H) MINUTE(RES)
01/30/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
JEFFREY A. LOGAN, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Joe Green
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 118
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4931
POSITION STATEMENT: Assisted with sponsor statement for HJR 12.
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 411
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2327
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for HB 46.
JULES TILESTON, Director
Division of Mining and Water Management
Department of Natural Resources
3601 C Street, Suite 800
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5935
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered
questions regarding HB 46.
BAERENT STRANDBERG
Strandberg Mineral Services
P.O. Box 874296
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
Telephone: (907) 373-5016
POSITION STATEMENT: Asked questions about HB 46.
MICHELE DRUMMOND, Volunteer
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O. Box 22151
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Telephone: (907) 463-3366
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 26.
WAYNE REGELIN, Director
Division of Wildlife Conservation
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
Telephone: (907) 465-4190
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered
questions regarding HB 26.
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 102
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3743
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented sponsor statement for HB 17.
PAT KALEN, Chairman, Alaska Section
American Congress on Surveying and Mapping; and
Chairman, Legislative Committee
Alaska Society for Professional Land Surveyors
1041 Chena Ridge Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Telephone: (907) 479-2656
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 17.
CAROL CARROLL, Legislative Liaison
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby Avenue
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1724
Telephone: (907) 465-4730
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered
questions regarding HB 17.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-6, SIDE A
Number 001
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:07 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Ogan, Hudson, Barnes, Dyson,
Green, Williams and Joule. Representative Nicholia joined the
meeting at 1:18 p.m. Co-Chairman Ogan noted that Representative
Masek was ill that day.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN advised that he would chair HJR 12 and HB 17,
while Co-Chairman Hudson would chair HB 46 and HB 26.
HJR 12 - LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE
Number 166
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House
Joint Resolution No. 12, urging the Secretary of the Interior to
conduct competitive oil and gas lease sales within the National
Petroleum Reserve in Alaska. He called on Representative Green to
present HJR 12.
Number 190
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, sponsor of HJR 12, referred to a map in
the committee packet that showed the National Petroleum Reserve -
Alaska (NPR-A) and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). He
said, "For familiarizing anybody who may not be aware, the Kuparuk
River, Prudhoe Bay, Milne Point, all those units that have been so
productive for so many years, and then on the west side of that
blow-up is the Colville River delta, and it is the Colville River
delta where the recent Alpine discovery that ARCO has been so
instrumental in developing will take place. That main channel is
the eastern boundary of the ... Alaska National Petroleum Reserve,
and it is that area that we're ... trying to energize the federal
government to resume leasing, when it's just a river-width away
from known commercial production."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that area was set aside in 1923 as
a petroleum reserve. "By anybody's definition of that, that means
something to be developed for petroleum," he said. Representative
Green indicated he would outline the area's history and answer
geographical or technical questions. A staff member would then
present the legislation.
Number 312
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN advised that then-President Warren G. Harding,
by executive order in 1923, established Naval Petroleum Reserve No.
4, which contained approximately 37,000 square miles of land.
Approximately the size of Indiana, it comprised about one-third of
the North Slope. Representative Green said, "That later was
changed, and so that no one gets confused, in 1976 became the
National Petroleum Reserve of Alaska, and I'll get to that in a
minute, but you may have heard either of those definitions, and
we're ... talking about the same area."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said as far back as the 1800s, trapping,
whaling, hunting and bartering took place throughout coastal
Alaska. After the Civil War, when Secretary Seward was
instrumental in its purchase, Alaska became a U.S. territory. From
roughly 1900 to 1920, several U.S. Geological Survey reports were
done. In 1901, Frank C. Schrader and W.J. Peters did a geologic
traverse in that area and in the Brooks Range; In 1903, Alfred
Brooks, for whom the Brooks Range was named, did similar work.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that oil seeps at Cape Simpson, not far
from what he termed "the sensitive environmental area" of Teshekpuk
Lake, were delineated and pictures taken in 1909. In addition,
Ernest de K. Leffingwell, considered by some to be the "father of
geology in Alaska," made a comprehensive geological report in 1919.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that from 1923 to 1926, an active
U.S. Geological Survey worked the rivers and mountain ranges,
trying to delineate what was contained within the petroleum
reserve. From 1926 to 1943, there was essentially no activity. It
was considered too remote and too expensive to develop. "But the
main thing was that during that period of time in the Lower 48,
there were many, many, many oil discoveries throughout the Lower
48, and we ... really had more oil than we could use," he stated.
Number 518
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reported that in 1943, activity resumed for
the next couple of years because of World War II. He referred to
a handout in the committee packet, accompanied by a tabulation of
wells by name and number. He noted that between 1945 and 1952, 45
shallow-core tests and 36 test wells were drilled in that area and
said, "[D]uring that time, three oil provinces and three gas
deposits were discovered, none of which were commercial. So then
we were over the war, and it was again thought too far away, so in
1953 to '73, there was another period of inactivity."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN recalled the Arab embargo of 1973 and the long
gas lines in the Lower 48. He said, "So between '74 and '82, there
was another activity that ended up ultimately with Husky Oil
Company's becoming the contractor. We drilled 21 more test wells
over the next seven years, and again, ... [were] not able to come
up with anything of a commercial nature. 1976, some of you may be
aware of the Naval Reserves Production Act, which in effect changed
the name of this to its current name. And it provided for oil
sales from other naval petroleum reserves - Elk Hills was probably
the most notable - that had production and was actually being sold
commercially, then, rather than being kept for a naval reserve."
Number 637
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued: "Unfortunately, in 1982 the
program terminated and the operations were taken over by BLM; and
that's where we stand right now. But in the GS studies, there were
some 11 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and at least six billion
barrels of oil estimated by the way they do their estimating for
the federal government. Of that six billion barrels, three-fourths
of it lie, by their estimate, within the eastern one-fourth of the
NPR-A, which is the area of most interest to the State of Alaska,
obviously."
Number 687
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued: "Then, of course, there was
development progressively moving ... from Prudhoe Bay to Kuparuk
River to out into the delta, and unfortunately, the early
development in the Colville delta was uneconomic as well. And only
recently did ARCO find what has now become known as the `Alpine
discovery,' and [they] do plan to go ahead and develop that
commercially. There are environmental considerations being
considered at the time. And the development area, certainly the
subsurface is still proprietary, but the development area that they
propose abuts the river and consequently abuts the NPR-A. And it's
because of that, and the fact that it would certainly seem to me
reasonable to develop this entire discovery, whatever it might be,
if it does go over or if there are ancillary fields that are on the
west side. The best place to find oil is near an oil field, and
that seems reasonable."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued: "And there is a pre-existing
agreement that says that any oil discovered and produced ... from
NPR-A would be shared 50-50 with the State of Alaska and the
federal government. And my final statement, other than answering
questions, would be that I want to make perfectly clear that in no
way does this have any effect, or diminish in any way, our emphasis
on trying to get ANWR open. They are completely separate entities.
It's just an additional thing that I think would be good for the
State of Alaska." Representative Green turned the presentation
over to Jeff Logan.
Number 790
JEFFREY A. LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joe
Green, stated he had little to add. "I would only state what is
stated in the resolution, that the resolution simply asks the
Secretary of the Interior to re-establish oil and gas lease sales
in the NPR-A," he said. "We believe the legislature should urge
the Secretary [of the Interior] to do so, because it would be in
the best interests of the state for three reasons. The economic
activity associated with a leasing program and the potential
exploration and development would benefit Alaskans. The potential
oil that might be found in NPR-A would flow through the TAPS
pipeline, and we all know how important it is to keep the pipeline
open. And, as Representative Green stated, the state receives 50
percent of the revenues from all sales, rentals, bonuses and
royalties."
Number 854
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES made a motion to move HJR 12 from the
committee with individual recommendations.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted that Representative Nicholia had joined the
meeting. He asked if there was any discussion or objection to the
motion. There being no objection, HJR 12 moved from the House
Resources Standing Committee with individual recommendations.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Hudson for
the next order of business.
HB 46 - MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS
Number 915
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON announced the next order of business was
House Bill No. 46, "An Act relating to mining; and providing for an
effective date." He advised there was a proposed committee
substitute and asked for a motion to adopt it as a work draft.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved to adopt the substitute.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection. There being
none, Work Draft 1/29/97, Luckhaupt, 0-LS0265\B was before the
committee. Co-Chairman Hudson invited Representative Kelly to
present the bill.
Number 950
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, a prime sponsor of HB 46, explained, "HB
46 comes out of the permitting process for some of the larger mines
that have recently come up to speed here in Alaska, most notably
Fort Knox and Illinois Creek. In getting those mines up and
producing, a number of flaws were discovered in Title 38,
specifically as it relates to mining on state land. This bill
addresses those flaws and brings the statutes into line with the
procedures that actually exist within DNR. The bill is supported
by industry and the Administration. To my knowledge, there is
little or no controversy surrounding this." Representative Kelly
offered to go through the bill section by section.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES indicated if there was no objection to the
bill, that was unnecessary.
Number 1017
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if the committee had questions. He then
called on Jules Tileston to testify.
Number 1031
JULES TILESTON, Director, Division of Mining and Water Management,
Department of Natural Resources (DNR), stated, "The Administration
does support the bill and the amendments that you are looking at
now. I would be pleased to answer any questions."
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were questions and said he would
entertain a motion.
Number 1068
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion that CSHB 46 move from
committee with individual recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY pointed out there was an amendment before the
committee.
Number 1075
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES withdrew her motion. She referred to
Amendment 0-LS0265\B.1, Luckhaupt, 1/30/97, which read:
TO: Draft CSHB 46( )("B" Version)
Page 5, line 29, through page 6, line l:
Delete "The rental amount shall be revised by the
commissioner if the change between the index for the first six
months of the current year and the most recent index used to
revise the rental, or the reference base index if the rental
amount has never been revised, equals or exceeds $5."
Page 6, line 4:
Delete "index annually"
Insert "rental amount each 10 years"
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that the amendment be adopted.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection. There being
none, the amendment to the committee substitute was adopted.
Number 1103
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move CSHB 46, as amended,
from the committee with individual recommendations and asked
unanimous consent.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection and noted there
was none. He advised that someone wished to testify and asked
Representative Barnes to hold her motion.
Number 1174
BAERENT STRANDBERG, Strandberg Mineral Services, testified via
teleconference from Mat-Su. He referred to the original bill and
indicated the Strandbergs had been involved in one of the largest
placer mines in Alaska and had written a lengthy report on the
Valdez Creek project.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON inquired whether Mr. Strandberg was working from
the 1/29/97 committee substitute adopted as a work draft and
described it.
Number 1223
MR. STRANDBERG responded, "No, no, apparently not." He indicated
a legislative aide was helping him. Mr. Strandberg referred to the
"South Denali entrance problem," which he said had some relation to
the bill. He asked how he could coordinate with the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES suggested Mr. Strandberg state his concern
and then let the bill's sponsor identify whether or not that was
addressed in the new committee substitute.
MR. STRANDBERG agreed. He referred to AS 38.05.285(a) and stated,
"It says that state lands may not be closed to mining or mineral
location under AS 38.05.185 - 38.05.275 except as provided in AS
38.05.300 and unless the commissioner makes the finding that mining
will be incompatible with significant surface uses on state land."
He explained he had a problem with the commissioner making a
determination of whether mining was compatible with other uses.
MR. STRANDBERG said, "If you're in a mining district, the industry
that is moving into the district should be evaluated as to whether
it is compatible with mining. And that comes in with the Denali
south entrance. We believe that the tourist industry being jammed
up against industrial projects will create significant additional
costs."
MR. STRANDBERG explained, "And what I would like to see in this
bill right here, I'd like to see you add an amendment in there
where any additional activities will be evaluated as to its
potential upset of the financial structure of the project. And for
instance, there's a mine that went down just outside of Yellowstone
where President Clinton came in to play and killed the mining
operation. And we do have a number of projects that are coming in
right next door to state and federal parks. And I'd like to see
your committee here address ... that issue. And I think that's our
major one."
Number 1391
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON voiced his understanding that they were looking
at page 4, line 12, of the adopted draft. He asked whether
Representative Kelly understood what Mr. Strandberg was suggesting.
Number 1396
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY responded, "As I understand, this is state law
and this bill does not affect what he is referring to here. If he
would like, I would gladly let him contact my office to entertain
amendments at a later time, in a different committee."
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON said it did not, then, apply to what was being
addressed by HB 46.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY agreed it did not apply.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether Mr. Strandberg had heard that.
Number 1423
MR. STRANDBERG replied he would contact Representative Kelly's
legislative assistant. He had tried to contact someone from
Representative Kelly's office that morning, he said.
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY acknowledged that telephone call and said his
staff had tried unsuccessfully to return it. He indicated his
staff would contact Mr. Strandberg that afternoon.
MR. STRANDBERG said that was his only question. It was a
significant problem trying to mix the tourist business with mining.
"I don't see how it's compatible," he concluded.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion that CSHB 46, as amended, move
from the committee with individual recommendations and asked
unanimous consent.
Number 1465
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection. There being
none, CSHB 46(RES) moved from the House Resources Standing
Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan.
HJR 12 - LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE
Number 1481
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the next order of business was House
Joint Resolution No. 12, urging the Secretary of the Interior to
conduct competitive oil and gas lease sales within the National
Petroleum Reserve in Alaska. Co-Chairman Ogan had inadvertently
omitted taking public testimony on HJR 12 before it moved out of
committee. He apologized to those who had signed up to testify and
asked if there were suggestions.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON suggested that written testimony be elicited
from those who wanted to testify. That testimony could then be
transmitted with HJR 12 to the next committee of referral.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN agreed. He again apologized and stated it had not
been his intention. Co-Chairman Ogan turned the gavel back to Co-
Chairman Hudson for the next order of business.
HB 26 - BIG GAME TAGS FOR WOLVES
Number 1556
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the next order of business was House
Bill No. 26, "An Act relating to big game tags for wolves; and
providing for an effective date." He called on Co-Chairman Ogan to
present the bill.
Number 1583
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN, sponsor of HB 26, noted that it had been
previously scheduled but not heard. He explained the bill, saying,
"What it does is it lowers the price of a nonresident and
nonresident alien wolf tag from $175 for a nonresident to $30, and
from $250 for a nonresident alien to $50." He advised that a
nonresident alien was someone from out of the country.
Number 1610
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, "I would like to see more people,
especially nonresident hunters who traditionally hunt with a guide,
in the field with wolf tags. This gives the Board of Game the
ability to set the seasons and bag limits, and if there's an area
where the Board of Game and the Department of Fish and Game have
identified ... that needs to be intensively managed, there'll be
more opportunity for these incidental takes of wolves and give a
little bit of a tool to be able to manage the resource a little bit
more proactively."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said HB 26 would provide more fair-chase hunting
opportunities. "I believe it's necessary in light of the recent
initiative that was passed on wolves, that the department's hands
are further tied to intensively manage," he concluded.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were questions from the
committee. He called on Michele Drummond to come forward and
testify.
Number 1666
MICHELE DRUMMOND, Volunteer, Alaska Environmental Lobby, testified
in opposition to HB 26, indicating she also spoke as a field
biologist with six years' experience working in the commercial
fishing industry. "The Alaska Environmental Lobby does not support
HB 26 because it calls for the reduction of tag fees for
nonresidents," she explained. "We believe that out-of-state
hunters should continue to pay higher prices for the ability to
hunt game, which they can't do in other states. It's something
that's only available in Alaska."
MS. DRUMMOND indicated there were few sightings of wolves. She
believed the incidental take of wolves would not necessarily
increase just because more tags were being issued. "It seems that
this bill continues to persecute wolves as a `bad species' because
they tend to compete with humans for the caribou and moose
populations, and the hunting tool as a wildlife management tool is
not necessarily a viable way to manage the wildlife stocks," she
concluded.
Number 1756
REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA asked Ms. Drummond, "Have you ever
been out to the rural area where the people ... are experiencing
problems with a large decline in the moose populations and evidence
that there are a lot of moose being taken by wolves?"
MS. DRUMMOND replied she had not.
Number 1779
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN inquired whether Ms. Drummond was aware
that HB 26 referred only to areas designated a critical problem
with wolf kill, not statewide.
MS. DRUMMOND said yes.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how Ms. Drummond would manage the
overpopulation of wolves in those areas.
Number 1802
MS. DRUMMOND replied, "I couldn't give you a proper response on
that at the moment. I could research it and get back with you."
Number 1817
WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,
Department of Fish and Game, testified in support of HB 26. He
believed Alaska's wolf population was currently underutilized and
could sustain a higher harvest level. He stated, "It's about 15
percent across the state right now, and the population can
withstand 30 percent harvest rates without causing any problems.
We think a reduction in fees for nonresident hunters may encourage
more nonresident hunters to purchase a wolf tag and increase the
harvest of wolves."
MR. REGELIN said in the areas with too many wolves, designated by
the Board of Game for intensive management, the fee would be
waived. He explained, "Right now very few nonresidents purchase
wolf tags. ... In 1995, only 237 nonresidents and, I think, 35
nonresident aliens purchased wolf tags out of about almost 11,000
nonresident hunters. So I think that a reduction in the fees may
very well encourage more people to harvest wolves." Mr. Regelin
concluded by restating the department's support of HB 26.
Number 1899
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked, "[I]f you didn't have this type of a
management tool - and of course the general public passed the
initiative to halt the fly-and-shoot type of situation - what's
your assessment of your ability to control these predator
populations?"
Number 1919
MR. REGELIN replied that it would be difficult in areas with severe
predator problems. "And this probably won't help," he admitted.
"But it won't hurt, and it will help in other places and provide a
lot more opportunity ... to harvest a resource that's currently
underharvested. But in the areas where we have a very severe
predator problem, this isn't going to be a lot of help." He said
in those areas, more wolves would need to be harvested than would
occur through hunting.
Number 1946
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Let's assume that this is effective and
that in certain areas that are certainly in need of `de-wolfing,'
if you will, do you see the fact that there would be more alien
nonresident hunters in any area like that? As you indicated it
probably won't be a major help, do you see it as being a hindrance?
Is there a safety hazard that this could create, or is there any
negative to this?"
Number 1973
MR. REGELIN did not see any negatives to it. He mentioned
nonresidents who come to Alaska to hunt sheep, bear, moose or
caribou. With the tag fee at $175, many people did not buy a tag.
"At $30, I think more will," he explained. "I don't think it will
increase the number of hunters that we have or cause any kind of
problems. I think that it ... might increase the harvest of
wolves. It will certainly give them more opportunity, and we're in
the opportunity business."
Number 1996
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Regelin to address the board process,
including how season bag limits were set and how wolf harvest was
controlled.
MR. REGELIN explained, "The legislature must set license fees and
tag fees. The Board of Game can't do that. But the Board of Game
then sets bag limits, seasons, and methods and means. So if
there's a problem in a certain area, the board can reduce the bag
limit, reduce the season for hunting and trapping. Right now, in
many areas, we ... open the wolf season for hunting at the same
time other big game species open, so that people have an
opportunity to take a wolf if they want to."
MR. REGELIN continued: "Most of our wolf harvest occurs during the
winter by trappers that are doing it to make money. ... A ten-year
average of the wolf harvest in Alaska is 1107, and ... each wolf
pelt is worth about $300, so it's a significant amount of money,
especially in rural areas where there's very little opportunity to
make money. And we manage trapping ... through season dates and
lengths, not through bag limits, because a trapper putting out a
trap line doesn't know exactly how many he'll catch." Mr. Regelin
indicated Alaska's wolf population was abundant and healthy, with
7,000 - 10,000 wolves, up significantly from ten years before.
"They're managed well, most places," he concluded.
Number 2081
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were further questions or whether
anyone on teleconference wished to testify. He stated his
intention of moving the bill.
Number 2107
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA made a motion that HB 26 move from
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
notes.
Number 2117
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were objections. Hearing none,
Co-Chairman Hudson advised that HB 26 was moved from the House
Resources Standing Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan for
the next item of business.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called for a short recess at 1:43 p.m.
[RECESS -- END OF TAPE 97-6]
[MEETING RESUMED AT 1:58 P.M. WITH CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON PRESIDING]
HB 46 - MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS
TAPE 97-7, SIDE A
Number 006
The next order of business was House Bill No. 46, "An Act relating
to mining; and providing for an effective date."
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES referred to the fiscal note from the DNR for
HB 46. At $1,000, it was a very small fiscal note for changes
required in regulations. Representative Barnes believed the DNR
could absorb that cost. She saw no reason for HB 46 to go to the
House Finance Committee for that amount.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that the House Resources Standing
Committee zero out the fiscal note and further moved that a zero
fiscal note be moved from the committee along with CSHB 46(RES), as
amended. She asked unanimous consent.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection.
Number 081
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired whether they needed to rescind the
previous action.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES replied no.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON concurred, saying it was an attachment and the
motion was proper.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES advised that the committee needed to prepare
a zero fiscal note and specify that it was by the House Resources
Standing Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON said he would ask the committee to prepare that.
Number 131
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated, "I'd like to know what the entailed
costs are for the $1,000 and why they have a $1,000 fiscal note."
She asked if someone from the DNR could explain it.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES responded, "It says on the bottom that it is
for revising the regulations that goes with this. And I believe
that those revisions, as I stated, can be made as part of their ...
in-house budget."
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA still wanted to know how the department
came up with the $1,000 fiscal note.
Number 202
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES pointed out there was a narrative at the
bottom stating how the DNR would use the $1,000.
REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA responded, "I'd just like to state that
it's kind of dumb that we have a fiscal note here for $1,000 and
nobody from the department, the Division of Mining Development,
that is here to back it up."
Number 249
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON acknowledged the motion and request for
unanimous consent to attach and advance CSHB 46, as amended, with
the fiscal note zeroed. He indicated staff had been ordered to
prepare a zero fiscal note. He asked if there was any objection to
the motion. There being no objection, CSHB 46(RES) moved from the
House Resources Standing Committee with a zero fiscal note.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan to
present the next item of business.
HB 17 - DNR APPROVAL OF PLATS IN UNORG BOROUGH
Number 270
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN welcomed Representative James and invited her to
present House Bill No. 17, "An Act establishing the Department of
Natural Resources as the platting authority in certain areas of the
state; relating to subdivisions and dedications; and providing for
an effective date."
Number 309
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, sponsor of HB 17, presented the
bill. "Some of you who've been around awhile may have seen this
bill before," she said. "It's been around and around and around.
And it was last year House Bill 80, and it just died in the rush of
adjournment." Representative James said the bill had been around
for six years or so before she joined the legislature. She advised
that Pat Kalen, who had been instrumental in drafting the
legislation throughout the process, was on teleconference to answer
questions and comment about the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained, "This is a bill that would require
the DNR to be a platting authority in the unorganized borough or
anyplace where there is no platting authority operating. Currently
the DNR does file the plats, but it has no authority to review the
plats to see ... if they are qualifying plats, that the
monumentation is in, that there is existing legal access and other
requirements that would be needed to have a valid plat ... to
eliminate future problems."
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES continued: "The general fund start-up cost of
$21,300 that's listed in the fiscal note is subject to being
amended. However, I think that that would be a proper place to
amend that. In other words, it could be reduced. It would be in
the Finance Committee. After the initial start-up costs, this
should be self-paying because the fees that are charged ... for the
review of the plats will be covering the cost of reviewing the
plats."
Number 408
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained her interest in the bill stemmed
from a situation in her district four years earlier, when the
University of Alaska, doing a subdivision of one of their sections
in an area having no platting authority, had provided no legal
access to those lots. "And when I disagreed with that, we were
able to finally solve the situation by negotiations," she said.
"But they had no requirement to provide legal access to those lots.
And there was no platting authority and no one to be able to review
the plats." Thus she had seen the necessity for change.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that HB 17 also changed the Department
of Transportation and Public Facilities monumentation requirement
so that monuments required for straight roads would be half the
number required on curves. This would be less costly for the
department when putting in rights-of-way. "It also adds three
departments to subdivision definition, which ... was in HB 80 and
some way or other it was removed," she explained. "What we've
tried to do in this piece of legislation is to have the subdivision
definition be the same ... in any one of the various departments.
And I have a listing here of what those departments are. ... It's
Lands and Surveying and DEC. So that now if you look for a
subdivision definition in the statutes, they'll all be the same."
Number 564
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES emphasized that there were no objections to
the bill and offered to answer questions.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there were questions.
Number 592
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON noted there were three amendments in the packet
and asked if Representative James wished for those to be numbered
Amendments 1 - 3.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES indicated she had provided those and that was
her desire.
Number 615
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved that Amendment 1 be adopted and asked
unanimous consent. Amendment 1 to HB 17, 0-LS0138\A.1, Luckhaupt,
1/22/97, read:
Page 4, lines 22 - 24:
Delete all material.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Representative James to explain Amendment 1.
Number 648
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "... DEC is not going to review
subdivisions in the state anymore. And this was a line in ... the
bill that said the commissioner shall require that a plat submitted
for approval bear the certificate of approval of any other state
agency having subdivision plat approval authority. And there is no
other agency, and so that takes out the requirement for DEC.
That's what it's related to, and DEC has no problem with that."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted there was already a motion and asked if
there were any objections. There being none, Amendment 1 was
adopted.
Number 682
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved to adopt Amendment 2 and asked unanimous
consent. Amendment 2 to HB 17, 0-LS0138\A.2, Luckhaupt, 1/22/97,
read:
Page 1, following line 13:
Insert new bill sections to read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 34.65.100 is amended by adding a new
paragraph to read:
(6) "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS
40.15.900.
* Sec. 4. AS 38.04.910 is amended by adding a new
paragraph to read:
(13) "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS
40.15.900."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 7, following line 23:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 10. AS 46.03.900 is amended by adding a new
paragraph to read:
(36) "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS
40.15.900."
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
Page 7, line 25:
Delete "sec. 7"
Insert "sec. 9"
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Representative James to explain Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "[W]e had reprinted this bill from
exactly the way HB 80 was last year when it was in the other body,
and ... somehow or other in the process, these three descriptions
in the various places for subdivision ... [were] eliminated from
the bill. So we didn't see that ... when we got the original bill.
So it's putting them back in so that all of those three areas have
the same definition of subdivision."
Number 754
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was discussion or any objection.
Hearing no objection, he noted that Amendment 2 was adopted.
Number 764
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved to adopt Amendment 3 and asked unanimous
consent. Amendment 3 to HB 17, 0LS0138\A.3, Luckhaupt, 1/22/97,
read:
Page 6, lines 14 - 19:
Delete all material.
Insert "reinforcement bar with appropriate identification
cap set points from which the right-of-way may be defined, not
exceeding 1,320 feet or, when line of sight permits, 2,640
feet; all recovered"
Number 782
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained that Amendment 3 related to the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities and
monumentation along rights-of-way. "And when it's a straight line,
... they only have to do half as much monumentation as they do on
a curved line, so it's saving money and not putting unnecessary
monumentation along a right-of-way," she added.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that Amendment 3 eliminated lines 14 to
19. He asked Representative James if it read the way she wanted it
to.
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied she believed it did. "It's reduction
in the amount of monumentation," she stated. Representative James
reminded the committee Pat Kalen was on teleconference to answer
questions.
Number 862
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired whether Representative Green wished to
get additional input.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated he was okay with the amendment.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was further discussion or any
objection. Hearing no objection, Co-Chairman Ogan noted that
Amendment 3 was adopted.
Number 882
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN opened up the meeting for public testimony. He
called upon Pat Kalen to testify.
PAT KALEN, Chairman, Alaska Section, American Congress on Surveying
and Mapping; and Chairman, Legislative Committee, Alaska Society
for Professional Land Surveyors, testified via teleconference from
Fairbanks in support of HB 17. He stated, "The surveyors have
worked in the subject area quite a bit. We had a bill ... that
nearly passed the legislature in 1990 to develop a thing called the
Survey and Mapping Advisory Board that was made up of surveyors
from all over the state and ... the private sector and the public
sector, and had representatives from the Alaska Federation of
Natives and all the major state departments that would be affected
in this area. And we noticed that a couple of years ago, that ...
[Representative James] ... was the first person to notice that you
could do anything you wanted to in the unorganized borough. Her
problem was concerning legal access. And she was absolutely
correct that people could make ... land descriptions in these new
subdivisions without providing legal access."
MR. KALEN explained the problem was a little deeper than that.
People could draw up any kind of deed they wished without being
required to go to a lawyer or surveyor. "And some very strange
animals have been filed over the years," he stated. "And surveyors
and lawyers get to see them after people discover there's something
the matter, that ... they should have done." Mr. Kalen indicated
no rules applied to subdivisions in the unorganized borough, saying
"excepting such as DEC used to be able to say they had authority,
but they didn't have any way of enforcing what they said you had to
do."
MR. KALEN mentioned he had worked with Representative James and her
assistant, Walt Wilcox, on HB 17. "The three little changes I was
aware of, and I support them wholeheartedly," he stated. He noted
it was much more cost-effective to place monuments out where they
could be seen than to "hide them off in the woods," which actually
raised survey costs. Mr. Kalen commended the sponsor and asked
that the committee move the bill.
Number 1088
CAROL CARROLL, Legislative Liaison, Department of Natural
Resources, testified in support of HB 17. She said she hoped Jane
Angvik, Director of Land, would arrive in time to answer questions.
She noted that if there were questions she herself could not
answer, a Division of Land employee was on teleconference.
MS. CARROLL stated, "The Department of Natural Resources does
support this bill. We think that it will certainly go a long way
to clearing up some title, making it easy for citizens of Alaska to
make sure that the plot that they have purchased in the subdivision
is indeed theirs and it doesn't infringe on any other ... land."
Number 1145
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether HB 17 had been scrutinized carefully
to preclude technical problems or future litigation.
Number 1157
MS. CARROLL replied, "Yes, the Division of Land has looked at this.
They've looked at it for the last couple of years since ...
Representative James has been interested in this bill. And we do
not see, to my knowledge, any technical problems. I have not seen
any come before the department, at least, in the bill analyses that
they require."
Number 1192
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the fiscal note and said, "[Y]ou
indicate that through regulations, you will increase the fee from
$200 to $300, that will cover ... future costs ... that you incur
in the department. Is it your understanding, or is it your message
to us, that it appears to be that; if it should be more, you will,
through regulation, make sure that that fee is covered?"
Number 1219
MS. CARROLL responded, "We intend to make this program revenue-
neutral."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if anyone else wished to testify, then said
he would entertain a motion.
Number 1245
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON made a motion to move HB 17, with the three
adopted amendments and attached fiscal note, with individual
recommendations. He asked unanimous consent.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was any objection. Hearing none,
Co-Chairman Ogan noted that HB 17, as amended and with the attached
fiscal note, moved from the House Resources Standing Committee.
Number 1263
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked to be excused from the briefing
scheduled the following day. Having worked for Cominco, Alaska,
she believed herself to be very knowledgeable on the Red Dog Mine
project and proposals for the future.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON reminded committee members that packets for the
following day were already available. The briefing, to be held
jointly with the Senate Resources Committee, was to be in the
Senate Finance Committee room. He urged attendance. He noted
there was no meeting Tuesday, February 4. On Thursday, February 6,
there would be an overview.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN thanked everyone for their expeditious handling of
the bills heard that day.
Number 1334
ADJOURNMENT
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 2:15 p.m.
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