Legislature(1995 - 1996)
04/05/1995 08:20 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 5, 1995
8:20 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman
Representative Alan Austerman
Representative John Davies
Representative Pete Kott
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Eileen MacLean
Representative Irene Nicholia
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Presentation on Mental Health Trust Lands
SJR 12: Relating to the United States Department of Agriculture,
Forest Service; relating to the United States Department
of Agriculture, Forest Service, strategic plan known as
"Reinvention of the Forest Service"; and advocating that
implementation of the plan be suspended pending
Congressional review and consultation with local
governments.
HEARD AND HELD
WITNESS REGISTER
STEVE PLANCHON, Executive Director
Mental Health Trust Land Unit
Department of Natural Resources
3601 C Street, Ste. 880
Anchorage, AK 99503
Phone: 762-2690
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave overview of Mental Health Trust Land
Unit
JOE AMBROSE, Legislative Assistant
Senator Robin Taylor
State Capitol, Room 30
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3873
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor SJR 12
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SJR 12
SHORT TITLE: U.S. FOREST SERVICE PLAN
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR,Pearce; REPRESENTATIVE(S) Williams
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/25/95 81 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/25/95 81 (S) RESOURCES
02/10/95 (S) RES AT 03:30 PM BUTROVICH RM 205
02/10/95 (S) MINUTE(RES)
02/14/95 266 (S) RES RPT CS 4DP SAME TITLE
02/14/95 267 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DNR)
02/20/95 (S) RLS AT 11:25 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
02/20/95 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
02/22/95 367 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 2/22/95
02/22/95 368 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
02/22/95 368 (S) RES CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/22/95 368 (S) AM NO 1 FAILED Y8 N11 A1
02/22/95 369 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN
CONSENT
02/22/95 369 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSJR 12(RES)
02/22/95 370 (S) PASSED Y18 N1 A1
02/22/95 370 (S) HALFORD NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
02/23/95 386 (S) RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP
02/23/95 390 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
02/27/95 479 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
02/27/95 479 (H) RESOURCES
03/03/95 575 (H) WTR REFERRAL ADDED
03/21/95 (H) WTR AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 203
03/22/95 850 (H) WTR RPT 3DP 1NR
03/22/95 851 (H) DP: MULDER, PHILLIPS BARNES
03/22/95 851 (H) NR: KUBINA
03/22/95 851 (H) SENATE ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DNR)
2/14/95
03/22/95 851 (H) REFERRED TO RESOURCES
03/27/95 947 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): WILLIAMS
04/05/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-46, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called to order by Co-Chairman
Williams at 8:20 a.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives Williams, Ogan, Austerman, and Kott. Members
absent were Representatives Green, Barnes, Davies, MacLean, and
Nicholia.
HRES - 04/05/95
PRESENTATION ON MENTAL HEALTH TRUST LANDS
STEVE PLANCHON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MENTAL HEALTH TRUST LAND UNIT,
DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES (DNR), said he is not a
representative of the Mental Health Trust Authority and therefore
will not be reporting on their activities. He stated he would be
providing a report on the DNR activities as they relate to the
management and development of mental health trust lands. He noted
he would also not be talking about lands being returned to general
state status as a result of the settlement. He explained those
lands will be managed by the Division of Land. He told committee
members the subjects he will review include the framework the unit
is working within, the guiding principles being used, the program
responsibilities, the operations, example activities, and revenues
and costs.
Number 070
MR. PLANCHON stated the Mental Health Trust Authority has three
programmatic responsibilities including the mental health programs,
management of the $200 million trust fund through a contract with
the permanent fund, and the overseeing of 1 million acres of land
through a contract with the DNR. He said the Mental Health Trust
Land Unit was set up specifically to manage trust lands. He noted
that he reports directly to Commissioner Shively and works very
closely with the Mental Health Trust Authority.
MR. PLANCHON explained the four guiding principles stated in law
include: Long term benefit of the trust, including sustained
yield; management for the benefit of the trust; management for
multiple use; and maintenance of the trust land base. He said the
Mental Health Trust Land Unit added a few other guiding principles.
He stated the first guiding principle is positive market place
reputation. The unit wants to turn the reputation of the mental
health trust lands from the worst place to do business, to the best
place to do business. He noted the second guiding principle is a
dollar saved goes to the beneficiaries. The unit wants to be cost
effective in all actions because when the unit does save money, the
money stays in the income account and goes to the beneficiaries.
MR. PLANCHON stated the third guiding principle is keeping trust
activities separate from general state land activities. He said
the Mental Health Trust Lands Unit does not want to be guilty of
commingling activities and losing the pathway on the actions,
decisions, and money. The unit wants to be fully accountable to
the Mental Health Trust Authority. He noted the department order
was signed a week ago making it official that the two activities
will be kept separate. He said the next guiding principle is an
effective working relationship with the DNR. He explained another
guiding principle is listen, learn, and improve. He encouraged
everyone to listen closely to any comments about what the unit is
doing and if there are problems, report those problems to him. He
noted the final guiding principle is do it correctly, not quickly.
Number 167
MR. PLANCHON said the Mental Health Trust Land Unit has
approximately 1 million acres in entitlement which resulted from
the settlement. He stated the lands are spread throughout the
state and noted there are 4,700 parcels. He explained the map
handed out to committee members (may be found in the House
Resources Committee Room, Capitol Room 124, and after adjournment
of the second session of the Nineteenth Alaska State Legislature,
in the Legislative Reference Library) is a generalization of those
lands. The colors on the map show whether or not the lands were
original trust land or substitute trust land. The map also shows
land returned to general state land status.
Number 195
MR. PLANCHON stated the Mental Health Trust Land Unit program
responsibilities are the same as the DNR, a private corporation, or
an Alaska Native Corporation. He said the unit covers a broad
range of responsibilities including oil and gas, minerals, timber,
recreational development, subdivisions, etc. The unit also has the
typical administration responsibilities such as risk management,
finance, legal, etc. He noted the unit only has four staff members
and that small staff cannot cover the bases. The desire is to keep
the core staff small and rely on the expertise of the DNR. He
pointed out where there is a gap between what the unit needs to do
and what can be done with existing resources, the gap will be
filled with reimbursable services agreements (RSAs) with the DNR,
the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) or private
contractors.
MR. PLANCHON told committee members in order for the Mental Health
Trust Land Unit to operate, by law the unit has to have a contract
with the Mental Health Trust Authority. He stated the agreement
will come out of a work plan and approved budget, which the unit
will work with the Trust Authority to develop. He noted the goal
is to have the contract in place by July 1, 1995. He stressed that
contract will require ongoing consultation with the Trust
Authority.
MR. PLANCHON stated the Mental Health Trust Land Unit has, in terms
of operations, a very important responsibility which is to develop
regulations to implement the trust settlement. At this time, the
unit is hoping to have the regulations out within one year. He
noted the unit will take its time putting out the regulations
because the unit wants to use working groups of affected parties,
interested individuals, companies, agencies, etc., to ensure that
when the regulations are put on the table for consideration,
everyone possible will be in agreement.
MR. PLANCHON said the unit is focusing on two key operating arenas.
The first is protecting the assets through land management. The
second is development--generating revenue from the lands for the
long-term benefit of the trust. He noted that means if the Mental
Health Trust Land Unit is going to have a piece of land forever, it
does not do something on that land today to maximize revenues,
meaning the unit cannot make money off the land 20 years from now.
He reiterated the unit wants to ensure that the actions taken today
are in the long-term interest of the trust.
Number 270
MR. PLANCHON stated example activities the Mental Health Trust Land
Unit is involved in include trying to find ways to streamline the
process within the DNR so the management of trust lands is not
slower than what it typically is already within the DNR. He noted
the DNR has a big job to do and does not have as many people as
needed to get the job done, so sometimes it takes awhile to get
permits processed, leases executed, etc. He said if the unit wants
to change the marketplace's opinion from mental health lands being
a problem place to work, to being a good place to work, the unit
needs to ensure those things are processed quickly. He pointed out
the administration of existing leases, contracts, rights-of-ways,
etc., is a big job. He added where a lease or contract may not be
in the best interest of the trust, if there is a way to work with
the lessee or the party contracted with to improve that, the unit
is making an attempt to do that.
MR. PLANCHON said a couple of existing leases and contracts are
important. For example, in Fairbanks, the Mental Health Trust
Authority owns the ore deposit at Fort Knox and the mill site
associated with the Fort Knox development. He stated the Fort Knox
development is extremely important to the trust and to the
community of Fairbanks. He noted at a recent public meeting, there
was not one negative comment about the mine operation. He stressed
the importance of the unit administering the Fort Knox lease in a
good manner. He added in the Cape Yakataga area, the Trust
Authority owns the infrastructure necessary for the University of
Alaska to harvest approximately 17 million board feet of timber per
year.
Number 316
MR. PLANCHON stated new opportunities being looked at, in terms of
operations, include an exercise he calls "loading the buckets." He
said the unit is taking a look at its portfolio and determining
where the near-term opportunities are for mineral development,
timber development, residential development, tourism development,
etc., and trying to determine strategic plans where those can
actually get off the ground and make money for the trust. He
stressed it is important that the Mental Health Trust Land Unit
focus on activities having a practical chance of success. The unit
does not want to waste money by going down a road that is not going
to result in something happening.
MR. PLANCHON said other things the unit is considering is
information management. The unit wants to become experts on this
land because if the unit knows as much as possible, it will be able
to make faster and better decisions. He stated the final aspect is
public relations. He felt the unit needs to work closely with the
communities it is involved in, special interest groups, the general
public, and the Alaska Native Corporations to talk about joint
interests and ventures.
Number 350
MR. PLANCHON told committee members in terms of revenues, if the
Mental Health Trust Land Unit portfolio was reviewed as it exists
today, it generates about $300,000 in annual revenue through
existing contracts and leases. The unit is hoping to increase that
revenue in the first year to $500,000 or $1 million. In terms of
costs, for the fiscal year 1996 budget, the unit has a core staff
which costs approximately $300,000, $300,000 in RSAs with other
divisions and private contractors, if necessary, and $100,000
identified in a contingency fund available in case there is an
opportunity to be addressed in a timely way.
MR. PLANCHON stressed the Mental Health Trust Land Unit is open for
business. The unit intends to have lean and effective operations
and work closely with the Mental Health Trust Authority to chart a
course to success.
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked what the total assets are in the
Mental Health Trust portfolio.
MR. PLANCHON replied there are different opinions about that figure
but he estimated the figure is approximately $1 billion.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated he was glad to hear the Mental Health
Trust Land Unit plans to be the best place to do business rather
than the worst place. He said his district has suffered a lot
because of the Mental Health suit and losing the Wishbone Hill Coal
Mine project.
MR. PLANCHON said that project is the reason the Mental Health
Trust Land Unit took up the motto.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN noted the people involved with the project felt
they jumped through all the hoops and did everything required yet
they were not allowed to develop the project. He felt Alaska has
sent a bad signal to the international business community and even
though some of the problems were beyond anyone's control,
perceptions count for a lot.
MR. PLANCHON stated the unit is attempting to go out and visit with
as many groups that have an interest in mental health land as
possible to bring the message forth that things are now different.
He gave several examples.
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS noted for the record that Representative
Davies had joined the committee at 8:25 a.m.
Number 438
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES noted that one of the handouts outlines
program responsibilities. He thought the list of responsibilities
looked large for only four staff members.
MR. PLANCHON stated the fiscal year 1996 budget for the Mental
Health Trust Land Unit includes the core operations budget of
approximately $300,000 which is the four staff. The unit also has
about $300,000 for contracts to do RSAs with other DNR employees
and divisions, the ADF&G, and private contractors when necessary.
He said an example would be in mineral development. The unit is
working closely with the Division of Mining, where the Mental
Health Trust Land Unit is responsible for ensuring the job is done
correctly but because that activity is not a daily activity for
staff, it does not make sense to have a full-time staff member do
it. Therefore, the unit works with the divisions within the DNR
that have that expertise. If the expertise is not there, the unit
will find it somewhere else.
MR. PLANCHON said the Mental Health Trust Land Unit is currently
looking at a timber sale at Cape Yakataga in fiscal year 1997 and
to do that, the unit will work with the Division of Forestry for a
layout of the timber sale. However, if the Division of Forestry
cannot provide everything needed, the unit will look to the private
sector to do what is needed in order to generate the dollars in a
timely fashion.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked for more examples of what the Mental
Health Trust Land Unit will be doing in regard to public relations.
MR. PLANCHON replied the small staff brainstormed on that exact
question. He said it was determined the first thing to do was to
get a multiplier. The multiplier chosen was to go out and talk to
a select group of individuals in associations who have an interest
in the lands and who have a broader constituency. He stated the
unit also determined there was a need for a real public relations
program because there is a problem with perception. He noted the
University of Alaska has a public relations curriculum and one of
the seniors has taken the Mental Health Trust Land Unit on as a
project pro bono.
Number 518
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if the unit has any specific targets on
how to get to the various municipal governments.
MR. PLANCHON gave examples of various people the unit has talked
to. He said in order to manage for the long-term benefit of the
trust, there is a need to do things in a way which will make the
communities feel good about the unit. He noted the first door to
go through is the municipal organizations.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if it will be difficult for the unit to
switch gears in the middle of a project, if needed, and go to a
private contractor or get assistance from another division.
MR. PLANCHON stated when the Mental Health Trust Land Unit looks at
a project, they take a private sector view at it and work back from
the desired end result. He said the unit does not want to get
caught in a situation where a lot of time and money is put into a
person and then that person cannot get the job done. Those
difficult questions need to be asked early in the process and a
decision must be made at the beginning as to whether or not a
private contractor will be needed.
MR. PLANCHON noted it will be somewhat difficult in the beginning
because the unit has to operate under Title 38 until new
regulations are developed and implemented. He said the Mental
Health Trust Land Unit has to be consistent with Title 38 unless it
is inconsistent with the Mental Health Enabling Act. He stated the
unit's approach to avoid a situation of not being able to finish a
project, is to look at projects where it will not be a handicap,
which is usually a place where there is no competition. If there
is no competition, the unit can take longer for the public notice
process. If there is competition, the competition will win since
the unit has to go to public notice and best interest findings and
the competition does not.
HRES - 04/05/95
SJR 12 - U.S. FOREST SERVICE PLAN
Number 580
JOE AMBROSE, LEGISLATIVE ASSISTANT, SENATOR ROBIN TAYLOR, PRIME
SPONSOR, stated SJR 12 is not in opposition to the Reinvention of
the U.S. Forest Service Plan. SJR 12 asks for a suspension and
review of that plan. He said early in December, the U.S. Forest
Service (USFS) announced its Reinvention Plan. He told committee
members a copy of that half-inch thick document is on file in
Representative Taylor's office and noted the devil is in the
detail.
MR. AMBROSE explained that the plan would centralize decision
making in Washington, D.C. He said such a policy flies in the face
of President Clinton's Executive Order No. 12875, which calls for
enhancing intergovernmental partnerships. The plan also puts lie
to Vice President Gore's "Report on Reinventing Government," with
its stated goals of "empowering state and local governments" and
"decentralizing decision-making power." He stated under
reinvention, regional forest supervisors and other front line
leaders, who now have decision making authority, would be replaced
with four people leadership teams answerable only to the Chief of
the Forest Service and the Secretary of Agriculture. He noted gone
would be any pretense of involving local and state governments in
the USFS decisions. The plan goes so far as to consolidate the
regional offices now located in Alaska and Montana to a central
office in Oregon.
MR. AMBROSE told committee members that SJR 12 calls for a
suspension of the plan and true partnership meetings with states,
communities, and tribal governments. He noted that a committee
substitute has been suggested which would add the Alaska Native
Claims Settlement Act corporations to the list. He said the goal
would be the development of a new plan--one that would involve the
affected entities up-front. He stressed the reinvention scheme
goes far beyond the relocation of regional offices. If left to
stand, the plan will mean a new era of USFS policy dictated from on
high, without consulting the very people most impacted by those
policies.
MR. AMBROSE noted that in committee members folders, there is a
memo from John Sandor, the former Regional Forester and former
commissioner, which was developed by Mr. Sandor in conjunction with
a group of resource professionals from around the country,
including Mike Barton, who is also a Regional Forester. He
stressed these professionals are very concerned about the direction
the reinvention plan takes the USFS in the future and the lack of
involvement with the entities most impacted by future decisions.
Number 620
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES noted the memo referred to was not very
readable. He wondered if the original was available.
MR. AMBROSE said the original is on gray paper and does not
duplicate very well.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stated he supports the basic intent of SJR 12
but expressed concern about page 2, lines 8-10. He wondered how
moving the Alaska Region Forest Service office is an example of
flawed science.
MR. AMBROSE requested committee members to refer to the memo just
mentioned. He said the second paragraph says, "One striking
example of the flawed scientific basis for and definition of
ecosystems and ecological boundaries is illustrated in the proposed
realignment of Forest Service Regional Office boundaries. The
strategic plan states that regional boundaries will be realigned to
more closely follow natural ecological boundaries. Incredibly, the
strategic plan announces the timetable for incorporating Alaska's
diverse and unique forest ecosystems under the direction of a
Forest Service leadership team headquartered in Portland, Oregon.
None of Alaska's forest ecosystems are the same as those
represented in the Pacific Northwest. As a matter of fact, many of
Alaska's boreal forests are more closely related to the ecosystems
of the Northern Lake states and adjacent Canadian provinces." He
added the stated goals and the plan to carry them out does not make
any sense.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES felt the premise for the paragraph just read
is somewhat strange. He said it appears the premise of the USFS is
to align their administrative boundaries with ecological boundaries
which he thought was odd. He noted usually administrative
boundaries are aligned more closely with political boundaries for
operational reasons. He stated if that is an example of the
science involved, it is flawed science. He thought good science
could be done on ecosystems in Southeast Alaska from New York
State.
Number 665
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES referring to page 3, lines 7-8, of SJR 12,
stated he does not understand the intent.
MR. AMBROSE said Senator Taylor's intent with this language was
that the compensation level, cost of living, etc., for USFS
employees be more reflective of the productivity of the USFS.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if that means Senator Taylor does not
want the USFS employees to be paid at all.
MR. AMBROSE replied no.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stressed he really does not understand the
intent of this language.
MR. AMBROSE responded it is Senator Taylor's belief that one of the
primary functions of the USFS in its management of the national
forests is timber production. Senator Taylor feels the USFS
employee compensation should be reflective of their productivity
level.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES clarified if the USFS employees are not
producing timber, they should not be compensated.
MR. AMBROSE replied it is Senator Taylor's position that if the
USFS is not producing timber, they should probably be a part of the
National Park Service.
TAPE 95-46, SIDE B
Number 000
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES stressed he cannot support that kind of
statement. He felt the Resolves in resolutions need to be directed
at issues the legislature can attempt to influence. He seriously
doubted the legislature would be able to impact the federal
compensation policies in a manner such as SJR 12.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to AMEND SJR 12, on page 3,
lines 7-8, delete the entire FURTHER RESOLVED.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN OBJECTED.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS wondered how this Resolve pertains to the real
intent of the resolution.
MR. AMBROSE stated a similar motion for amending SJR 12 was made
when the resolution was debated in the Senate. He said Senator
Taylor felt this Further Resolved was in keeping with the general
tone of the entire resolution in regard to asking that the entire
process be reassessed. He noted this language was the subject of
a debate in Sitka. The Sitka Borough Assembly passed a resolution
supporting SJR 12 and were called to question by members of the
community. They revisited the issue including a briefing by USFS
on ecosystem management, and did not withdraw their support for SJR
12.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES said the reason he moved the amendment was
because he supports the basic notion in SJR 12, but does not feel
it furthers the legislature's position in asking for things to
happen by putting things in resolutions which can be taken as
insulting. He stated unless the language can be removed, he cannot
support the resolution. If the language is removed, he would
support SJR 12.
Number 082
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS agreed with Senator Taylor's position on this
Further Resolved. He noted he comes from an area which is
basically run by the USFS. He stressed the USFS is not making
enough timber available to keep the mills working and described the
situation in the Ketchikan area. He noted the USFS is making
timber available but it is not possible to get the timber because
of the weather. He felt it was important to keep this Further
Resolved in SJR 12, as it will send a strong message. He did not
feel it was embarrassing but felt shutting down an entire industry
is embarrassing.
MR. AMBROSE stated this is one of the issues Senator Murkowski
raised with the new Secretary of Agriculture and he has made a
commitment to reassess the USFS role. He noted the Senate did not
feel the language in SJR 12 was too strong and added that the
Senator who proposed the same amendment as Representative Davies,
ended up voting for the resolution.
Number 145
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES felt what happens in the Senate is irrelevant
to this committee. He stated the issue is whether or not timber is
available for the mills in Southeast Alaska. He said he did not
believe that Senator Murkowski discussed USFS employee compensation
with the Secretary. He thought it would be more appropriate for
this Further Resolved to consider the Secretary's compensation or
the Regional Administrator's compensation rather than USFS
employees in general, because USFS employees are carrying out
policies set by their supervisors.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES pointed out there are USFS employees just as
frustrated as others about the rate at which timber is being made
available. However, those employees are required to work at the
direction of their supervisors and their supervisors are required,
by law, to operate under the laws of the U.S. He said if there is
a desire to change how that fundamentally is done, then there is a
need to change those laws. He said it is not fair to single out
one class of federal employees and reduce their pay because of a
frustration with the law they are working under.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote on the amendment.
Voting in favor of the amendment was Representative Davies. Voting
against the amendment were Representatives Austerman, Kott, Ogan,
and Williams. The MOTION FAILED 4-1.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a MOTION to MOVE CSSJR 12(RES) with
attached fiscal note out of committee with individual
recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES OBJECTED.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote. Voting against
the motion was Representative Davies. Voting in favor of the
amendment were Representatives Kott, Ogan...
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced SJR 12 would be held until a later
date.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Resources
Committee, Co-Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting at 9:15 a.m.
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