Legislature(1995 - 1996)
02/01/1995 08:07 AM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 1, 1995
8:07 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Vice Chairman
Representative Alan Austerman
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Pete Kott
Representative John Davies
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Joe Green, Co-Chairman
Representative Eileen MacLean
Representative Irene Nicholia
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 58"An Act establishing the Chickaloon Flats Critical
Habitat Area."
CSHB 58(RES) PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HJR 7Opposing the ban on the export of Alaska North Slope
crude oil; endorsing federal legislation to remove
restraints on the export of Alaska North Slope oil;
requesting the Congress of the United States to pass
legislation to permit the export of Alaska North Slope
crude oil; and urging the President of the United States
to support the legislation to lift the ban on the export
of Alaska North Slope crude oil.
CSHJR 7(O&G) PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 102"An Act extending the termination date of the Big Game
Commercial Services Board."
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
HJR 19Supporting the lifting of the ban on the export of Alaska
North Slope crude oil, requesting the President of the
United States to present to the United States Congress a
recommendation that it is both in the national interest
to lift the ban on the export of Alaska North Slope crude
oil and discriminatory to the state to maintain the ban,
and endorsing passage of H.R.70 and S. 70, companion
federal legislation to remove restraints on the export of
that oil.
SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 108
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-4843
POSITION STATEMENT: Prime Sponsor of HB 58
GERON BRUCE, Representative
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, AK 99811
Phone: 465-4100
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 58 and answered questions
DR. JIM SCOTT
Bird Learning Center
1600 E. Tudor
Anchorage, AK 99508
Phone: 563-3945
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 58
JOHN HENDRICKSON, Representative
Alaska Waterfowl Association
3105A Lakeshore Drive #102
Anchorage, AK 99517
Phone: 243-3235
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 58
ROD ARNOT, President
Alaska Outdoor Council
P.O. Box 2798
Palmer, AK 99645
Phone: 376-2913
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 58
JILL WITTENBRADER, Aide
Representative David Finkelstein
State Capitol, Room 424
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-2435
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave Sponsor Statement for HJR 7
JIM PALMER, Director External Affairs
British Petroleum Exploration (Alaska) Inc.
P.O. Box 196612
Anchorage, AK 99519
Phone: 564-5485
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 7
BEVERLY WARD, Representative
ARCO Alaska
134 N. Franklin Street
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 586-3680
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HJR 7
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 58
SHORT TITLE: CHICKALOON FLATS CRITICAL HABITAT AREA
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE,Rokeberg,Toohey
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/06/95 36 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/16/95 36 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/95 36 (H) RES, FIN
01/19/95 90 (H) COSPONSOR(S): TOOHEY
02/01/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HJR 7
SHORT TITLE: EXPORT OF ALASKA OIL
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) FINKELSTEIN, Navarre, Grussendorf,
Brown, B.Davis, Porter,Davies,Kubina,Williams
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/16/95 17 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/16/95 17 (H) O&G, RES, FIN
01/18/95 73 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DAVIES
01/19/95 86 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KUBINA
01/31/95 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/01/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 102
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BIG GAME COMMERCIAL SERVICES BOARD
SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/20/95 101 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/20/95 101 (H) RES, FIN
02/01/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/08/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HJR 19
SHORT TITLE: EXPORT OF ALASKA OIL
SPONSOR(S): SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL AND GAS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/20/95 100 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/20/95 100 (H) O&G, FIN
01/31/95 (H) O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124
02/01/95 (H) RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-7, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Resources Committee was called to order by Co-Chairman
Bill Williams at 8:07 a.m. Members present at the call to order
were Representatives Williams, Austerman, Davies, Kott and Ogan.
Members absent were Representatives Green, Barnes, MacLean and
Nicholia.
HRES - 02/01/95
HB 58 - CHICKALOON FLATS CRITICAL HABITAT AREA
REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR, stated HB 58 was requested
by businessmen from Anchorage who are duck hunters. He said while
these people are business, development, and resource oriented
people, they are also duck oriented. He explained HB 58
establishes on the Kenai Peninsula, across from Anchorage, a
critical habitat area. On a map, Representative Bunde showed that
the area encompasses the mud flats below mean high water, follows
the meander of the bay, and in a straight line connects the two
ends of the meander.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated Chickaloon Flats is on the northeast
side of the Kenai Peninsula, on the Turnagain Arm facing the
Anchorage Coastal Refuge and Potter Flats. The area has a local
nesting population of ducks and geese. He said the most important
use of this area is as a feeding and resting area for migrating
ducks, geese, and shore birds. Up to 25,000 birds a day use the
mud flats and tidal marsh. He noted this area is often used when
Portage Pass is closed due to bad weather. The waterfowl that
normally transit the pass need a place to rest and feed. He
stressed Chickaloon Flats is the principal place the waterfowl use
on Turnagain Arm.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE explained the purpose of HB 58 is to assure
adequate habitat for waterfowl rather than create a stumbling block
for future development of resources. He noted there are currently
no valid oil and gas leases in the proposed critical habitat area
that would be disrupted by the formation of a critical habitat
area. He added there is nothing in HB 58 which would preclude
future exploration of this area. He urged committee members to
pass HB 58 out of committee.
Number 045
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT agreed with the intent of the bill. He
asked Representative Bunde to again review the geographical
longitude description.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE responded the area goes east to west on the
mean high water line (curved line) and then comes straight back in
a straight line. Therefore, it is a half moon shape.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT felt lines 1-3, page 2 are inconsistent with
other habitat areas already created. He wondered why the statement
"The department shall permit the following public uses to continue
without further approval by the department unless the department
determines that the use is not compatible with the purposes..." was
included in HB 58.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied the word permit is defined as allow.
For example, if there is some huge industrial activity in the area
at the peak of migration, that would be incompatible. If it was
done three months later when everything is frozen up, it would be
compatible.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT reiterated that the words "without further
approval by the department" is not contained in any of the other
critical habitat areas which have been promulgated in statute. He
felt the words enumerate concerns for allowances and thought it
would be a negative inference in the sense that anything which is
not enumerated would then have to be approved by the department.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said the purposes outlined in lines 5-12,
page 2, would be allowed without further approval. Department
approval would be required for anything beyond those purposes
outlined.
Number 091
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES thought lines 10-12, page 2, generalize
the concept and gives the department a certain amount of
flexibility to address Representative Kott's concerns.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said the term "other related uses" falls in
the realm of outdoor recreation.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said he understands the intent of lines 10-12,
page 2. He felt perhaps in line 2, page 2, the words "without
further approval by the department" should be eliminated because
that verbiage is not consistent with other statutory habitat areas
which have been created. He assumed the Alaska Department of Fish
and Game (ADF&G) will restrict any uses, either public or oil and
gas, which are not compatible with the purpose to protect and
preserve habitat areas especially crucial to the perpetuation of
fish and wildlife. However, he thought the words left it open in
regard to the discretion of the department. The department might
place restrictions which in their wisdom do not fall within the
clause contained in lines 10-12, page 2.
GERON BRUCE, REPRESENTATIVE, ADF&G, said the recreational
activities listed in HB 58 have been ongoing and the sponsor wants
them to continue. He stressed these activities are normally
allowed in legislatively specially designated areas because they do
not pose a threat to fish and wildlife habitat; the protection of
which is the critical component in designating the areas. He
agreed the activities specified in HB 58 are more detailed than
other plans but he felt they are consistent with the way the other
areas are managed. Recreational uses of the critical habitat
areas, game sanctuaries, etc. are allowed as long as they do not
conflict with the protection of the habitat involved.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE reiterated that the activities listed are
traditional activities and he did not want some future change of
administration to decide that if someone wants to hunt in the area,
they would have to get a permit. He stressed he did not want these
traditional activities to be restricted in the future.
Number 153
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES made a MOTION to AMEND HB 58 eliminating the
word "permit" in line 1, page 2, and substituting the word "allow"
and in line 2, page 2, eliminating the phrase "without further
approval by the department".
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE responded that amendment is fine.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT thought the amendment would be an improvement.
He noted, however, the word "permit" has been used in every other
statutory creation of a habitat area. He reiterated that the
phrase "without further approval by the department" concerned him
because it offers a negative inference that if another type of
activity not listed would need authorization or approval by the
department. An example is three wheeling. He wondered if three
wheeling falls within the category as outlined in lines 10-12,
page 2.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said at the mouth of the Susitna River there
is a critical habitat area and the department has specifically
limited the use of all-terrain vehicles to commercial fishermen
during the fishing season and to within a quarter of a mile of salt
water.
MR. BRUCE stated ADF&G supports HB 58. He noted the Department of
Labor estimates that Alaska's population will grow by 40 percent
over the next 15 years and a significant portion of that growth
will occur in Anchorage. The department believes it is important
to establish areas for people to enjoy recreational activities
related to Alaska's fish and wildlife. The department also feels
it is important to look toward the future and potential growth, so
these opportunities will be there for future Alaskans.
Number 220
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked what the difference is between
establishing a critical habitat area and leaving an area as is.
MR. BRUCE responded a critical habitat designation allows the
department to manage the area with the primary purpose of
protecting habitat critical to fish and wildlife populations
inhabiting that area. He added there is a need to ensure that
someone coming into the area, wanting to engage in some type of
activity does not damage that habitat and degrade it. He noted a
critical habitat designation is the most mild form of land use
designation and simply elevates fish and wildlife habitat in
consideration, but does not preclude other uses.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN questioned if the Chickaloon Flats area had
been explored for oil and gas.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE replied the Kenai has been thoroughly examined
on a seismic basis. There are no oil or gas leases presently and
no leases are contemplated. He also had a discussion with the
Alaska Miners and was assured there is no offshore mining potential
in the area.
Number 258
DR. JIM SCOTT, REPRESENTATIVE, BIRD LEARNING CENTER, testified via
teleconference and said the area being discussed is not a big area,
but is an area which people have enjoyed for numerous years. He
stressed the most important point is that the area is critical to
waterfowl under certain kinds of circumstances. He explained when
the need is there, the birds have the opportunity to wait in the
area until Portage Pass opens up. Otherwise, a large number of
birds may be lost. He added it is ridiculous to think that someone
might put a golf course on the mud flats. He stated it is
important to think about the waterfowl and other birds who stage
there. He urged support of HB 58.
Number 280
JOHN HENDRICKSON, PRESIDENT, ALASKA WATERFOWL ASSN., testified via
teleconference. He said the Chickaloon Flats area encompasses
about 22,000 acres and is important for migrating ducks, geese and
thousands of shore birds. He noted the establishment of the
critical habitat area will be compatible with the Kenai National
Wildlife Refuge. He expressed support for the amendment proposed.
He stressed HB 58 is an example of legislation which provides
careful oversight of the land without any costs involved and no
extra employees are needed.
MR. HENDRICKSON stated there is also a significant red salmon run
going up the Chickaloon River. Therefore, the oversight and
protection is important to commercial and sport fishers. He
acknowledged the designation is not to preclude oil and gas
exploration and production which he pointed out is done in the
Redoubt Bay Critical Habitat Area, Susitna Flats, etc. He felt
HB 58 is consistent with the kind of protection already in place.
He told committee members the state of Alaska has established,
through its legislature, the finest coastal waterfowl habitat and
refuge system in the world. He noted there is a thriving duck
population which does nest in the area being discussed.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that Representative
BARNES had joined the committee at 8:25 a.m.
Number 347
ROD ARNOT, PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL, testified via
teleconference and expressed support for HB 58. He stressed that
as the Anchorage urban population continues to grow, these tidal
flats become even more critical. The area is particularly
important for times when the weather blocks Portage Pass and
waterfowl need an area to congregate and rest before going through
the Pass. He also expressed support for the amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT noted the use of campfires has been allowed in
the area. If at some point, it is determined that the use of
campfires is no longer compatible with the purpose of protecting
the habitat, he asked what actions would be taken by the department
to notice the public.
MR. BRUCE replied it could be noticed in a number of ways. He said
in the beginning, the department would post signs in the area
saying campfires are allowed only in certain places or not allowed,
etc. He stated it could also be included in the management plan
which will be developed for the habitat area and would be available
for people to pick up at local ADF&G offices before going to the
area.
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES asked what type of track record the
department has in critical habitat areas in not allowing other uses
to continue when they are part of the legislation.
MR. BRUCE felt he could not answer the question on the track record
for all the refuges and critical habitat areas since they were
established. He thought the general public in Alaska supports the
program and enjoys the use of the areas and the wildlife and
habitat it protects.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said she does not know many Alaskans who
support critical habitat areas or the locking up of the land.
Number 428
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN clarified the amendment and stated lines
1 & 2, page 2, will read "The department shall allow the following
public uses to continue unless the department..."
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote on the amendment.
Voting in favor of the motion were Representatives Austerman, Ogan,
Davies, Kott, Barnes and Williams. The MOTION PASSED 6-0.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 58(RES) out of
committee with accompanying zero fiscal notes WITH INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES said she would not object to moving
CSHB 58(RES) out of committee but added she will not support
passage of the bill.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote. Voting in favor
of the motion were Representatives Kott, Ogan, Barnes, Davies,
Austerman and Williams. The MOTION PASSED 6-0.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS recessed the meeting until 1:00 p.m.
TAPE 95-7, SIDE B
Number 000
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS called the meeting back to order at 1:10 p.m.
Members present at the call to order were Representatives Williams,
Ogan, Austerman, Barnes, Davies, Kott and Nicholia. Members absent
were Representatives Green and MacLean. He stated there was a
quorum present.
HRES - 02/01/95
HJR 7 - EXPORT OF ALASKA OIL
Number 008
JILL WHITTENBRADER, AIDE, REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN, PRIME
SPONSOR, said HJR 7 endorses federal legislation to lift the ban on
the export of Alaska North Slope crude oil. She noted that every
year the legislature passes a similar resolution. It is felt that
this year is an especially good year for this resolution because
President Clinton has shown support for lifting the ban and
Alaska's Congressional delegation is in an excellent position to
push the lifting of the ban.
MS. WHITTENBRADER stated lifting the ban would create more revenue
for the state as well as the nation and would also help create
jobs.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a MOTION and asked for unanimous consent
to ADOPT CSHJR 7(O&G).
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, the MOTION PASSED.
Number 035
JIM PALMER, DIRECTOR OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS, BRITISH PETROLEUM
EXPLORATION (ALASKA), stated he had submitted written testimony
(may be found in the House Resources Committee Room, Capitol #124,
and after adjournment of the second session of the 19th Alaska
State Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library). He said
he had been around the issue since 1973 when the pipeline act was
enacted in Congress. He felt this year there is the best
opportunity to get the ban lifted. He indicated his endorsement of
HJR 7.
Number 050
BEVERLY WARD, REPRESENTATIVE, ARCO ALASKA, stated she was happy to
be present to add ARCO's voice to the chorus of those asking that
the oil export ban be lifted. She said ARCO pledges support to
work with the state to win passage of federal legislation
eliminating the ban on the export of North Slope oil. She noted
that prior to the 1994 election, ARCO judged passage of legislation
lifting the export ban as very unlikely. It now appears passage is
possible.
MS. WARD said ARCO will not benefit from elimination of the export
ban. But because of the potential benefit to the state, and at the
request of the Knowles Administration, ARCO reevaluated its long-
standing neutral position on the issue and decided the time had
come to join the state in working to open Pacific Rim markets to
Alaska oil. She stated ARCO will make clear to members of Congress
its support for legislation eliminating the export ban. ARCO will
also work closely with the Alaska Congressional Delegation, the
legislature, and the Knowles Administration on this issue in
whatever way is appropriate.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES noted she is pleased to see that ARCO has
moved from their neutral position. She found it offensive when a
company, such as ARCO, remains neutral on an issue of such great
importance to the state of Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a MOTION to MOVE CSHJR 7(O&G) out of
committee with accompanying fiscal notes with INDIVIDUAL
RECOMMENDATIONS.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked for a roll call vote. Voting in favor
of the motion were Representatives Davies, Austerman, Ogan,
Nicholia, Kott, Barnes and Williams. The MOTION PASSED 7-0.
CO-CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee would meet on Friday,
February 3 at 8:00 a.m. to hear HB 121 and HB 113 (pending
referral).
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the House Resources
Committee, Co-Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting at 1:17 p.m.
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