Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124

04/26/2023 01:00 PM House RESOURCES

Note: the audio and video recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.

Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

Audio Topic
01:03:32 PM Start
01:04:44 PM HB143
01:21:13 PM HB98
01:27:18 PM Overview(s): Office of History and Archeology
02:35:02 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Overview: Office of History and Archeology by TELECONFERENCED
State Historic Preservation Officer
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 143 ADVANCED RECYCLING AND FACILITIES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 143(RES) Out of Committee
+= HB 98 STATE OWNERSHIP OF SUBMERGED LAND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Presentation: Project Updates by Alaska TELECONFERENCED
Industrial Development and Export Authority
<Above Item Rescheduled to 5/1 at 1:00 p.m.>
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 26, 2023                                                                                         
                           1:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tom McKay, Chair                                                                                                 
Representative George Rauscher, Vice Chair                                                                                      
Representative Kevin McCabe                                                                                                     
Representative Stanley Wright                                                                                                   
Representative Jennie Armstrong                                                                                                 
Representative Donna Mears                                                                                                      
Representative Dan Saddler                                                                                                      
Representative Maxine Dibert                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
Representative Josiah Patkotak                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 143                                                                                                              
"An   Act   relating   to   the   Department   of   Environmental                                                               
Conservation;  relating   to  advanced  recycling   and  advanced                                                               
recycling  facilities; relating  to waste;  and providing  for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 143(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 98                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to state ownership of submerged land underlying                                                                
navigable water within the boundaries of and adjacent to federal                                                                
areas; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW(S): OFFICE OF HISTORY AND ARCHEOLOGY                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 143                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ADVANCED RECYCLING AND FACILITIES                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): RESOURCES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
03/27/23       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/27/23       (H)       RES, L&C                                                                                               
04/05/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/05/23       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
04/12/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/12/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/12/23       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/19/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/19/23       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
04/21/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/21/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/21/23       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/26/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  98                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: STATE OWNERSHIP OF SUBMERGED LAND                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): SADDLER                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
03/06/23       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/06/23       (H)       JUD, RES                                                                                               
03/29/23       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/29/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/29/23       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/31/23       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/31/23       (H)       Moved HB 98 Out of Committee                                                                           
03/31/23       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
04/03/23       (H)       JUD RPT 6DP                                                                                            
04/03/23       (H)       DP:   C.JOHNSON,   CARPENTER,   EASTMAN,                                                               
                         GRAY, ALLARD, VANCE                                                                                    
04/14/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/14/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/14/23       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/21/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/21/23       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/21/23       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/26/23       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TREVOR JEPSEN, Staff                                                                                                            
Representative Tom McKay                                                                                                        
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  On behalf of the sponsor, the House                                                                      
Resources Standing Committee, of which Representative McKay                                                                     
serves as chair, explained Amendment 1 to HB 46.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JUDY BITTNER, Chief                                                                                                             
Office of History and Archeology                                                                                                
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation                                                                                        
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Gave a  PowerPoint  presentation,  titled                                                             
"Overview: Office of History and Archeology."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SARAH MEITL, Compliance Coordinator                                                                                             
Office of History and Archeology                                                                                                
Division of Parks and Outdoor Recreation                                                                                        
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions  during the  overview on                                                             
the Office of History and Archeology                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:03:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TOM MCKAY  called the  House Resources  Standing Committee                                                             
meeting to order at 1:03  p.m.  Representatives Mears, Armstrong,                                                               
Dibert, McCabe,  Saddler, Wright, and  McKay and were  present at                                                               
the call  of order.   Representative  Rauscher arrived  while the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
            HB 143-ADVANCED RECYCLING AND FACILITIES                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:04:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY announced  that the first order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO. 143,  "An  Act  relating  to the  Department  of                                                               
Environmental  Conservation; relating  to advanced  recycling and                                                               
advanced recycling  facilities; relating to waste;  and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:05:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCCABE moved  to  adopt Amendment  1  to HB  143,                                                               
labeled, 33-LS0427\U.2, Radford, 4/25/23, which read as follows:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 26 - 31:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:05:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG objected for discussion.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:05:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TREVOR  JEPSEN, Staff,  Representative  Tom  McKay, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  on  behalf  of the  sponsor,  the  House  Resources                                                               
Standing  Committee,  of  which Representative  McKay  serves  as                                                               
chair, explained Amendment 1 to HB  143.  He stated that it would                                                               
delete Section  6 from  the proposed  legislation.   He expressed                                                               
the  opinion  that  the  language  on  page  4,  lines  26-31  is                                                               
unnecessary  and  confusing.    He explained  that  the  language                                                               
relates  that  solid  waste  processing  would  not  include  the                                                               
extraction  of  materials  from   solid  waste  through  advanced                                                               
recycling; however,  Section 4 would  already clarify  what solid                                                               
waste  includes, and  it would  not include  the materials  to be                                                               
extracted.  He pointed to  the definition of "advanced recycling"                                                               
in Section 7,  and this definition would not  include solid waste                                                               
at an  advanced recycling  facility.   He added  that Legislative                                                               
Legal Services has agreed with this change.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:07:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG  removed her objection.   There being no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 1 to HB 143 was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:08:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE  moved to adopt  Amendment 2 to HB  143, as                                                               
amended, labeled, 33-LS0427\U.3, Radford,  4/25/23, which read as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 28, following "adhesives;":                                                                                   
          Insert ""other recycled product" does not include                                                                     
     products sold as fuel;"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:08:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEPSEN  stated that Amendment  2 would  clarify on page  5 of                                                               
the  proposed legislation  that  products sold  as  fuel are  not                                                               
considered advanced  recycling products.  He  continued that this                                                               
would  also clarify  the definition  of  "advanced recycling"  in                                                               
Section  7.   He stated  that this  would be  consistent with  23                                                               
other states and  federal code.  He added  that Legislative Legal                                                               
Services has agreed with this change.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:09:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG  removed her objection.   There being no                                                               
further  objection,  Amendment  2  to HB  143,  as  amended,  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:09:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEARS  moved to  adopt Amendment 3  to HB  143, as                                                               
amended, labeled, 33-LS0427\U.1, Radford,  4/24/23, which read as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 16 - 20:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 26 - 31:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:10:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEARS   acknowledged  that   most  of   what  the                                                               
amendment would do  has already been covered with  the removal of                                                               
Section 6.  She noted that  Section 4 refers to the definition of                                                               
"solid waste", and  this would apply to  recyclables currently in                                                               
regulation.   She  expressed the  opinion that  these regulations                                                               
are not  strict, as they  cover basic public safety  and nuisance                                                               
items.  She  cited the solid waste regulation, 18  AAC 60.10, and                                                               
expressed the  opinion that there  should not be an  objection to                                                               
the adherence to these minimal standards.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:11:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. JEPSEN, in response to  the proposed Amendment 3, stated that                                                               
the bill  is not trying  to exempt post-use polymers  and plastic                                                               
feedstocks  from  code.   He  stated  that the  definition  would                                                               
simply  be   clarifying  that   post-use  polymers   and  plastic                                                               
feedstocks are  not just solid  waste.  He expressed  the opinion                                                               
that 18  AAC 60.10  is completely reasonable  in state  code, and                                                               
municipal code  should adopt a  similar regulation;  however, the                                                               
input products  should be regulated  for what they are,  which is                                                               
not solid waste.  He suggested  that if the bill is passed, these                                                               
codes  would  be  rewritten,  including  any  public  safety  and                                                               
nuisance items.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEARS  stated  that currently  recycled  products                                                               
would  be considered  solid  waste.   She  stated that  currently                                                               
existing   recycling   operations   follow   this   solid   waste                                                               
definition; therefore, advanced recycling  should follow the same                                                               
rules.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:13:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCCABE maintained his objection.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Armstrong, Mears,                                                               
and Dibert  voted in  favor to  adopt Amendment 3  to HB  143, as                                                               
amended.  Representatives McCabe,  Rauscher, Saddler, Wright, and                                                               
McKay voted against it.  Therefore,  Amendment 3 failed by a vote                                                               
of 3-5.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:14:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER moved  to report HB 143,  as amended, out                                                               
of   committee   with    individual   recommendations   and   the                                                               
accompanying zero fiscal note.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:15:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEARS  objected.     She  expressed  support  for                                                               
recycling  materials,  diverting  them  from  the  waste  stream;                                                               
however, she expressed the opinion  that the proposed legislation                                                               
would  not be  necessary for  any  operation to  function in  the                                                               
state.   She stated that  this may  be necessary in  other states                                                               
with stricter  regulations, but it  would not be necessary  to do                                                               
business in the state.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:16:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  McCabe, Rauscher,                                                               
Saddler,  Wright, Armstrong,  and  McKay voted  in  favor of  the                                                               
motion  to  move  HB  143,  as amended,  out  of  committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                               
note.    Representatives  Mears  and  Dibert  voted  against  it.                                                               
Therefore, CSHB 143(RES) was reported  out of the House Resources                                                               
Standing Committee by a vote of 6-2.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:17:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:17 p.m. to 1:21 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
            HB  98-STATE OWNERSHIP OF SUBMERGED LAND                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Contains discussion of SB 92.]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:21:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY  announced that the  next order of business  would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO. 98,  "An  Act  relating  to state  ownership  of                                                               
submerged land  underlying navigable water within  the boundaries                                                               
of and adjacent to federal  areas; and providing for an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:21:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  moved to adopt the  committee substitute                                                               
(CS) for HB  98, 33-LS0432\S, Bullard, 4/22/23  ("Version S"), as                                                               
a working document.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY objected for the purpose of discussion.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:22:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER,  as  the prime  sponsor,  presented  the                                                               
summary  of  changes  for  Version   S,  which  read  as  follows                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Change 1:  The phrase "and adjacent to was removed                                                                         
                throughout the bill (7 locations).                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Change 2: A technical correction was made to the                                                                           
               definition of "navigable water" to point to                                                                      
               the correct statute (page 3, line 17)                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Change 2: A technical correction was made to delete                                                                        
               the errant "1491" (page 63, line 13)                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Change 3: Mendenhall Lake and River was deleted from                                                                       
               the list (version A page 69, line 27)                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Change 4: Further clarification was added to the                                                                           
               definition of "Federal Area" to ensure that                                                                      
               it cannot be interpreted to include private                                                                      
               lands (Beginning page 87, line 22)                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER explained the  changes were made to better                                                               
match SB  92, the  companion bill  in the  Senate.   He continued                                                               
that the first change would clarify  that when a piece of federal                                                               
land is  adjacent to a waterway,  the ownership line would  be in                                                               
the  center of  the waterway.   He  added that  the third  change                                                               
would  delete the  Mendenhall River  from the  list of  state and                                                               
federal  areas,  as the  river  is  currently  the subject  of  a                                                               
lawsuit  between  the  state and  federal  governments,  and  the                                                               
lawsuit  would need  to be  resolved  before the  river could  be                                                               
included.    He  stated  that the  fourth  change  would  further                                                               
specify what federally  owned areas would be.  He  added that the                                                               
final  change  would clarify  that  this  would not  include  any                                                               
Native  lands included  in the  Alaska  Native Claims  Settlement                                                               
Act.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:25:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEARS  questioned  the status  of  the  companion                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  stated that SB  92 is being heard  in the                                                               
Senate Rules Standing Committee.   He expressed the understanding                                                               
that when SB 92 is before the House,  it should be the same as HB
98.  In  response to a follow-up question, he  reiterated that SB
92 and the current version of HB 98 should be the same.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:26:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MCKAY  removed his  objection.    There being  no  further                                                               
objection, Version S was adopted as a working document.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:26:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY announced that HB 98, Version S was held over.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
^Overview(s): Office of History and Archeology                                                                                  
         Overview(s): Office of History and Archeology                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
1:27:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY announced  that the final order of  business would be                                                               
an overview of the Office of History and Archeology.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:27:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:27 p.m. to 1:28 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:28:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY introduced the presenter.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:29:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JUDY  BITTNER, Chief,  Office of  History  and Archeology  (OHA),                                                               
Division of  Parks and Outdoor Recreation,  Department of Natural                                                               
Resources,  gave  a  PowerPoint presentation,  titled  "Overview:                                                               
Office  of History  and Archeology"  [hard copy  included in  the                                                               
committee  packet].   She stated  that she  would present  on the                                                               
role  OHA   plays  in  the   cultural  resource   management  and                                                               
environmental  review  process  in   accordance  with  state  and                                                               
federal regulations.   She  stated that as  an officer,  or SHPO,                                                               
she  acts as  the state  liaison with  the federal  government in                                                               
concurrence   with  the   National  Historic   Preservation  Act,                                                               
advocating for the  state.  On slide 2, she  pointed out that OHA                                                               
has 18  employees, who are  mostly historians  and archeologists.                                                               
The office  is responsible for  operating and monitoring  all the                                                               
state and federal programs concerning  preservation.  She pointed                                                               
out that OHA has a project-based  budget, and she stated that the                                                               
funding comes  from a grant  from the National Parks  Service and                                                               
other programs.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER discussed  the federal  Section 106  review process,                                                               
which  reviews  projects for  the  potential  impact on  cultural                                                               
resources.  She stated that  this review would not stop projects;                                                               
rather it would ensure responsible development.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:33:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  questioned the  project process  and the                                                               
statement  that  no  projects  would   be  stopped  if  items  of                                                               
archeology are found.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER  responded in agreement.   She stated that this  is a                                                               
regulatory process, and if the  regulatory steps are followed and                                                               
information is gathered, then the  lead federal agency would make                                                               
a decision on  this.  In response to a  follow-up question on the                                                               
interaction between  OHA and the  federal government,  she stated                                                               
that  if the  federal government  is involved  in a  project, the                                                               
project would be reviewed on  the state and federal requirements,                                                               
and the  state would be working  with the federal agency  and the                                                               
applicant.   She said that  if the information gathered  from the                                                               
project  area were  identified as  significant, then  the project                                                               
would be regulated.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:36:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER  moved to  slide 3  and pointed  out the  federal and                                                               
state  statutes that  govern the  reviews, which  are the  Alaska                                                               
Historic Preservation Act and  the National Historic Preservation                                                               
Act.   She discussed each  of these in  detail.  She  pointed out                                                               
that  under the  federal  act, the  federal  government would  be                                                               
required to  consult with the  state as  part of the  Section 106                                                               
review; however, the final decisions  would be the responsibility                                                               
of the lead federal agency.   She added that the state would have                                                               
a voice  on any adverse  effects on  the resources.   She pointed                                                               
out the large number of upcoming  projects, as seen on the map on                                                               
the slide.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:39:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER commented on  the large number of projects                                                               
shown  on the  map and  requested  information on  the number  of                                                               
airport infrastructure projects.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER responded  that OHA  has been  "taken aback"  by the                                                               
[number  of]  projects.   She  expressed  the understanding  that                                                               
there  would be  new  money  in addition  to  the federal  agency                                                               
money.    She  stated  that  OHA would  review  all  the  federal                                                               
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:41:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER moved to slide 4  and explained that OHA is guided by                                                               
a   combination   of   processes,  policies,   regulations,   and                                                               
guidelines,  which are  created  on both  the  state and  federal                                                               
levels.   She  identified  and discussed  the  state and  federal                                                               
statutes  and regulations,  pointing  out how  the process  would                                                               
follow  these.    She  mentioned how  the  National  Register  of                                                               
Historic Places  Bulletins would help determine  the significance                                                               
of properties.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER moved  to slide  5 and  pointed out  the five  basic                                                               
steps for  review of projects.   She  stated that the  first step                                                               
would  be to  define the  project and  area of  potential effect.                                                               
She pointed out that step two  would be research, a survey of the                                                               
property, and the consideration of  other areas of study, such as                                                               
community  outreach.   She stated  that once  the information  is                                                               
gathered,  the  third  step  would  be  determining  the  permits                                                               
required, and  this would  be done  by evaluating  the identified                                                               
resources.  She pointed out  that the National Register Bulletins                                                               
would help with this process.   She said if a site is considered,                                                               
under  the fourth  step, the  information would  then be  sent to                                                               
both state  and federal  authorities for review.   She  said that                                                               
OHA  would comment  on the  decision as  to why  a site  would or                                                               
would not  be considered historical.   She said that  there would                                                               
be  a 30-day  review in  determining if  the site  is historical.                                                               
She  said that  the effect  the  project would  have on  historic                                                               
properties would also be considered,  and the fifth step would be                                                               
resolving  the adverse  effects, such  as a  loss of  a heritage.                                                               
She  stated   that  this  would   involve  a   consultation  with                                                               
communities, Tribes,  or any entity  that has an interest  in the                                                               
resources.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:48:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER questioned the 30-day determination.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER  responded  that  when  there is  a  request  for  a                                                               
concurrence or determination  on an eligibility, OHA  has 30 days                                                               
to report  back to the federal  agency.  In response  to a series                                                               
of  follow-up questions,  she  stated that  this  is per  federal                                                               
regulation.    She  added  that  this is  dependent  on  all  the                                                               
information being  complete, as  the 30-day  clock begins  once a                                                               
completed packet  is submitted.   Concerning the map on  slide 3,                                                               
she  stated that  the projects  on the  map are  those coming  to                                                               
Alaska.    She  stated  that  the agency  who  is  funding  these                                                               
projects would  contact OHA for a  review.  She pointed  out that                                                               
these are  only anticipated projects,  so information  would need                                                               
to be  gathered on  the project before  a determination  would be                                                               
made.   She answered that each  project would need to  go through                                                               
the steps,  and this includes  gathering field  information, [and                                                               
this  time frame  could  be  variable in  Alaska  because of  the                                                               
climate].   She stated that  for small and discrete  projects, no                                                               
field  effort may  be needed;  however, projects  vary, and  some                                                               
require a multi-seasonal effort.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:55:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  expressed  the  understanding  that  OHA                                                               
would start its work once a permit or application is received.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER  stated that this  is correct.   She stated  that the                                                               
office  would  receive  documentation  once  the  application  is                                                               
submitted.  She suggested that  the earlier OHA is contacted, the                                                               
better, so it  can advise through the entire process.   She added                                                               
that  this way  the office  would be  familiar with  the project.                                                               
Concerning  the   determination  of  project   significance,  she                                                               
deferred the question to Sarah Meitl.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:57:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARAH  MEITL,  Compliance  Coordinator,  Office  of  History  and                                                               
Archeology, Division of Parks  and Outdoor Recreation, Department                                                               
of  Natural  Resources,  answered   that  the  criteria  used  to                                                               
determine significance  would be  based on the  National Register                                                               
of Historic  Places, and  this is  written into  the regulations.                                                               
She stated  that subjectivity  has been a  concern, but  the four                                                               
criteria in the  National Register Bulletin has  helped to reduce                                                               
any  biases.   She stated  that  offices across  the country  are                                                               
involved  in this  process to  make sure  there would  be quality                                                               
control and an  outside standard with an independent  review.  In                                                               
response  to  a  follow-up  question,   she  gave  the  areas  of                                                               
significance in four parts.   The first part would involve events                                                               
and  patterns  through history,  the  second  part would  involve                                                               
people,  the  third  part  would  be design,  as  in  a  historic                                                               
district,   and  the   fourth   part   would  concern   potential                                                               
information.   She stated  that each  of these  would be  used to                                                               
understand  if something  makes  the  information gathered  "rise                                                               
above the ordinary."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:00:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DIBERT  questioned  whether  an  Elder  from  the                                                               
community near the site could visit the site during the process.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MEITL stated  that this  would be  one of  the roles  of the                                                               
consultation process.   She stated that  regulations include that                                                               
consulting  parties would  be contacted,  especially if  the site                                                               
has religious or traditional significance.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:01:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT,  concerning federal sites,  questioned who                                                               
has precedence.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER  responded that  federal  agencies  are required  by                                                               
regulation to consult with the state  liaison, which is OHA.  She                                                               
explained  that this  is  why the  state would  have  a voice  on                                                               
federal resource cultural issues  and determinations.  She stated                                                               
that part  of the  National Historic  Preservation Program  is to                                                               
provide  the state  a  role  in this,  and  this  happens in  all                                                               
states.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:04:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER  continued to  slide  5  and discussed  the  project                                                               
review  efficiencies,  as  there  is  a  small  staff  with  many                                                               
projects  to review.   She  stated that  OHA uses  tools, federal                                                               
regulation,  and  internal  procedures  to deal  with  the  large                                                               
volume.   She  pointed  out that  programmatic  agreements are  a                                                               
primary  tool, as  this is  an alternative  regulatory procedure,                                                               
which allows  one process to be  used for both state  and federal                                                               
large projects.   She explained  that streamlining is one  of the                                                               
benefits of  using these  agreements.   She stated  that internal                                                               
procedures have  been developed to  help expedite  projects, like                                                               
grouping  projects together,  so projects  would not  be reviewed                                                               
twice under  both federal  and state regulations.   She  said OHA                                                               
would provide  advice to projects on  compiling documentation, as                                                               
OHA's goal  is to help agencies  be successful.  She  stated that                                                               
it is  recommended that projects  be involved early with  OHA, as                                                               
this would help projects meet the Section 106 requirements.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:09:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER pointed  out that  slide  6 show  statistics on  the                                                               
volume of  work OHA does.   She pointed  out that in  2002, there                                                               
were around 10,000 project reviews  completed.  There were 18,000                                                               
individual  reviews,  with  7,200  projects  reviewed  under  the                                                               
programmatic streamlined  process.  She expressed  the importance                                                               
of  this  process and  listed  several  other statistics  on  the                                                               
activity of  OHA.  She  stated that most  of the work  comes from                                                               
the oil  and gas, mining,  transportation, national  defense, and                                                               
housing sectors.   She pointed out the vastness of  the state and                                                               
its diversity.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:11:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DIBERT requested an example  of what would allow a                                                               
project to continue if something  of culturally significance were                                                               
found.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MEITL  answered that  the  cultural  resources and  historic                                                               
properties are very  diverse.  She stated that the  effect on the                                                               
property  would  be  assessed,  and the  bigger  the  effect,  as                                                               
complete destruction,  the more  mitigation would  be done.   She                                                               
said that  the office would try  to match up the  importance with                                                               
what the project would do.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:12:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER  moved to slide  8 and discussed project  errors that                                                               
effect project delivery,  such as when the SHPO  leaves issues to                                                               
the  "11th  hour"  when  project  planning  and  construction  is                                                               
imminent.  She stated that in  these instances the office is left                                                               
to "scramble."   Another issue would be if the  field effort were                                                               
shortchanged  for cost  savings.    If there  is  not a  thorough                                                               
effort in  the fieldwork, there could  be inadvertent discoveries                                                               
that could be  costly.  She stated that problems  also arise when                                                               
the field report  is inadequate, and this could  cause more work.                                                               
She  stated that  problems also  arise when  not enough  time has                                                               
been factored in  for the planning or  consulting requirements on                                                               
a project.   She advised that if  each of the steps  are not done                                                               
in advance  before the project,  there could be litigation.   She                                                               
continued  that time  should also  be considered  in regard  with                                                               
government-to-government consultation.   With over 250  Tribes in                                                               
the state,  this could  be a  very timely  process, as  there are                                                               
properties   with  cultural   significance  that   can  only   be                                                               
identified by Tribes.  She  reiterated that OHA could help advise                                                               
on the scope and scale of projects concerning Section 106.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:17:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. BITTNER moved to slide 9  and referred to the Alaska Heritage                                                               
Resources  Survey, which  supports the  state's only  database of                                                               
reported  cultural resources  and  their locations.   She  stated                                                               
that  there are  over  50,000  locations in  the  database.   She                                                               
stated that it is available on  the internet and is essential for                                                               
project planning.   She added  that this  is an integral  part of                                                               
the project review.   She said that the database  is updated with                                                               
new sites  all year.   She  moved to slide  10 and  addressed the                                                               
State Cultural  Resource Investigation  Permits (SCRIPs).   These                                                               
permits are also known as  "archeology permits."  She stated that                                                               
in 2022 there  were 79 permits issued, which is  more than double                                                               
the number issued in 2019.   She stated that this permit would be                                                               
required to do  investigation work on state land.   She said that                                                               
75 percent of the 79 permits  were for Section 106 projects.  She                                                               
noted that only  one person in the office would  issue these, and                                                               
this speaks to  the staffing needed to meet the  program needs at                                                               
OHA.    She expressed  the  concern  that  with the  increase  of                                                               
reports, combined with permit holders  not getting the reports in                                                               
sooner, the next field season would  be affected.  She noted that                                                               
often the  results from  one season  would be  used for  the next                                                               
season.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:22:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  referred  to  the  Moose  Creek  Bridge                                                               
project on  the Glenn Highway, which  has been stopped.   He said                                                               
that this  was after 25  years of  work and millions  of dollars,                                                               
and he  said now the current  road is unsafe.   He commented that                                                               
year  after   year  there  are   complaints.    He   offered  the                                                               
understanding that  25 years  of work has  gone into  looking for                                                               
archeological pieces,  and this has finally  stopped the project.                                                               
He questioned  what archeological  findings stopped  the project.                                                               
He stated that this question is from the community of Sutton.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MEITL,   in  response,  expressed  the   understanding  that                                                               
cultural or archeological resources  had not stopped the project.                                                               
She stated that OHA had a  Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) with the                                                               
Department of Transportation and  Public Facilities (DOT&PF) that                                                               
was  in  process  and  being worked  through.    Ultimately,  she                                                               
explained  that   other  factors  came  into   play  besides  the                                                               
resources  found, including  design  requirements  by the  Alaska                                                               
Railroad  and a  right  of  way that  became  unattainable.   She                                                               
stated that  DOT&PF requested that  the agreement be  closed, and                                                               
it has  moved to alternative  designs.  She reiterated  that this                                                               
was not a result from the cultural resources side.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  expressed the understanding  from DOT&PF                                                               
and  the federal  government  that  archeological resources  were                                                               
found.   He stated that  he uses the  bridge "every day,"  and it                                                               
needs  to be  replaced.   He reiterated  that he  has heard  that                                                               
archeological finds had shut the project down.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:26:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MCKAY questioned what archeological objects were found.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEITL stated  that there are a number  of historic properties                                                               
in  the location,  such  as a  railroad that  was  used for  coal                                                               
mining 100  years ago  and a  Native village  at the  Moose Creek                                                               
mouth.   She  stated that  the bridge  had needed  mitigation for                                                               
both  properties,  and this  required  some  investigation.   She                                                               
suggested  that  there  may  have  been  a  cemetery  during  the                                                               
railroad  period,   and  this   needed  investigating   as  well.                                                               
Regardless  of  the resources,  she  explained  that the  process                                                               
continues while there  is mitigation, and the  projects would not                                                               
stop.  She  opined that if DOT&PF had  continued with mitigation,                                                               
the project would have moved forward.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  expressed the understanding  that DOT&PF                                                               
decided not to do the project.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEITL responded in the affirmative.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    RAUSCHER   questioned    whether   there    was                                                               
intervention from OHA that would have stopped the project.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEITL  stated that OHA  did not have  a role in  the decision                                                               
for the project not to move forward.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  suggested that  OHA would have  had some                                                               
say about its process.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:29:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BITTNER  expressed  the understanding  that  from  the  MOA,                                                               
stipulation  and mitigation  measures  were  identified for  data                                                               
recovery on the  archeological sites, with the  possibility of an                                                               
identified cemetery  site.  She  said that OHA had  identified in                                                               
the  MOA  what  mitigation  measures would  take  place  for  the                                                               
resources  adversely  affected;  therefore,  on  the  SHPO  side,                                                               
determinations of effect and mitigation  measures had been worked                                                               
out.   In response  to a  follow-up, she  stated that  sites were                                                               
identified.  There  were several surveys done in  Moose Creek for                                                               
more than one season.  Field  efforts were done, and reports were                                                               
written.   She continued that  reports were used to  identify the                                                               
effects, and  mitigation measures were discussed,  and these were                                                               
identified in the  MOA.  Some of the stipulations  agreed to some                                                               
of the  excavation that was  to take place, but  more information                                                               
was  still needed.    She  stated that  it  was  spelled out  how                                                               
information would be gathered, and decisions would be made.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:32:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MEITL stated  that  OAH  would be  able  to  provide to  the                                                               
committee  the  MOA  and  DOT&PF's request  for  closure  of  the                                                               
project.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER   questioned  whether   the  recommended                                                               
mitigation  would  have  been  too  costly  for  the  project  to                                                               
continue.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEITL responded  that the MOA is not "a  one-way street" with                                                               
OHA  dictating  what  the  mitigation   is  going  to  be.    The                                                               
mitigation   would   be   developed  through   consultation   and                                                               
negotiation, and the  parties involved, and in  this instance, it                                                               
would  be the  federal agency,  DOT&PF,  and OAH  needing to  all                                                               
agree.    She  stated  that often  the  conversations  are  about                                                               
whether the mitigation is  appropriate and reasonable, especially                                                               
regarding the  cost.  She stated  that OAH had not  been informed                                                               
by DOT&PF that the mitigation  was unreasonable nor that it would                                                               
be too costly to carry out.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:35:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:35 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 143 Amendment #1 (U.2).pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM
HB 143
HB 143 Amendment #2 (U.3).pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM
HB 143
HB 143 Amendment #3 (U.1).pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM
HB 143
CS HB 98 (RES) version S.pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM
HB 98
HB 98 Summary of Changes (A to S).pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM
HB 98
HRES OHA Overview Presentation 4.26.23.pdf HRES 4/26/2023 1:00:00 PM