Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/14/1999 01:27 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                    May 14, 1999                                                                                                
                     1:27 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jerry Sanders, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Ramona Barnes                                                                                                    
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 7(FIN) am                                                                                                
"An Act relating to the University of Alaska and university land,                                                               
and authorizing the University of Alaska to select additional state                                                             
land."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - FAILED TO MOVE OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 171 am                                                                                                          
"An Act relating to the release of certain records and reports                                                                  
required by the Department of Fish and Game regarding fish,                                                                     
shellfish, or fishery products and reports of fish buyers and                                                                   
processors; relating to the transfer of land to the state; and                                                                  
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS SB 171(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 128(FIN) am                                                                                              
"An Act moving the termination date of the Board of Storage Tank                                                                
Assistance to June 30, 1999; relating to the storage tank                                                                       
assistance fund, to financial assistance for owners and operators                                                               
of underground petroleum storage tank systems, and to discharges                                                                
from underground petroleum storage tank systems; and providing for                                                              
an effective date."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 128(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2                                                                                               
Relating to the sovereignty of the State of Alaska and the                                                                      
sovereign right of the State of Alaska to manage the natural                                                                    
resources of Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHCR 2(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 7                                                                                                                      
SHORT TITLE: INCREASE LAND GRANT TO UNIV. OF ALASKA                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR, Kelly Tim, Donley, Wilken, Leman,                                                                
Pearce, Mackie, Ward; REPRESENTATIVE(S) Halcro                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/08/99        14     (S)  PREFILE RELEASED - 1/8/99                                                                           
 1/19/99        15     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 1/19/99        15     (S)  RES, FIN                                                                                            
 1/25/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                                                                  
 1/25/99               (S)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 1/25/99               (S)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 2/01/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                                                                  
 2/01/99               (S)  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                             
 2/01/99               (S)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 2/03/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                                                                  
 2/03/99               (S)  MOVED CS OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                           
 2/03/99               (S)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 2/05/99       165     (S)  RES RPT  CS  4DP 3NR      SAME TITLE                                                                
 2/05/99       165     (S)  DP: MACKIE, TAYLOR, GREEN, PETE                                                                     
                            KELLY;                                                                                              
 2/05/99       165     (S)  NR: HALFORD, PARNELL, LINCOLN                                                                       
 2/05/99       165     (S)  FN TO SB (DNR), FNS TO SB & CS                                                                      
                           (UA, F&G)                                                                                            
 2/05/99       165     (S)  FN TO CS (DNR)                                                                                      
 2/25/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 3/04/99               (S)  FIN AT  8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 3/04/99               (S)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 3/04/99               (S)  MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                         
 4/23/99               (S)  FIN AT  8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/23/99               (S)  MOVED CS(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                      
 4/24/99               (S)  FIN AT 10:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/26/99               (S)  RLS AT 12:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 4/26/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/26/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/26/99      1085     (S)  FIN RPT  CS  5DP 2NR      SAME TITLE                                                                
 4/26/99      1086     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, WILKEN, LEMAN, DONLEY,                                                               
 4/26/99      1086     (S)  PETE KELLY; NR: PHILLIPS, ADAMS                                                                     
 4/26/99      1086     (S)  PREVIOUS FNS (DNR, UA, F&G)                                                                         
 5/03/99      1202     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 5/3/99                                                                   
 5/03/99      1203     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 5/03/99      1203     (S)  FIN  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                        
 5/03/99      1203     (S)  AM NO 1 OFFERED BY TAYLOR                                                                           
 5/03/99      1203     (S)  AM NO 1      ADOPTED Y11 N9                                                                         
 5/03/99      1204     (S)  AM NO 2 OFFERED BY TAYLOR                                                                           
 5/03/99      1204     (S)  AM NO 2      ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                   
 5/03/99      1204     (S)  AM NO 3 OFFERED BY TAYLOR                                                                           
 5/03/99      1204     (S)  AM NO 3      ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                   
 5/03/99      1205     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 5/03/99      1205     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 7(FIN) AM                                                                 
 5/03/99      1205     (S)  COSPONSOR(S): PEARCE, MACKIE, WARD                                                                  
 5/03/99      1206     (S)  PASSED Y15 N5                                                                                       
 5/03/99      1206     (S)  ELLIS  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                    
 5/04/99      1239     (S)  RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP                                                                        
 5/04/99      1239     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 5/05/99      1175     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/05/99      1175     (H)  RESOURCES, FINANCE                                                                                  
 5/05/99      1187     (H)  CROSS SPONSOR(S): HALCRO                                                                            
 5/12/99               (H)  RES AT  1:30 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/12/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 171                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: FISHERY DATA; LAND REC'D BY STATE                                                                                  
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) HALFORD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 5/07/99      1299     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/07/99      1299     (S)  RES                                                                                                 
 5/10/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                       
 5/10/99               (S)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 5/10/99      1354     (S)  RES RPT  2DP 3NR                                                                                    
 5/10/99      1354     (S)  DP: HALFORD, GREEN; NR: MACKIE,                                                                     
 5/10/99      1354     (S)  LINCOLN, PETE KELLY                                                                                 
 5/10/99      1354     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DNR, F&G-2)                                                                       
 5/11/99               (S)  RLS AT 12:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 5/11/99      1365     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 5/11/99                                                                  
 5/11/99      1367     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 5/11/99      1367     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 5/11/99      1367     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  SB 171                                                                         
 5/11/99      1368     (S)  PASSED Y20 N-                                                                                       
 5/11/99      1368     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 5/11/99      1368     (S)  HALFORD  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                  
 5/12/99      1401     (S)  RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING                                                                   
 5/12/99      1401     (S)  RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 5/12/99      1401     (S)  AM NO 1      ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                   
 5/12/99      1402     (S)  AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING                                                                      
 5/12/99      1402     (S)  PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y20 N-                                                                    
 5/12/99      1403     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 5/12/99      1407     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 5/13/99      1363     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/13/99      1363     (H)  FSH, RES                                                                                            
 5/14/99      1423     (H)  FSH REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                                 
 5/14/99      1423     (H)  REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                               
 5/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 128                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: STORAGE TANK ASSISTANCE FUND                                                                                       
SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/31/99       752     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/31/99       753     (S)  RES, FIN                                                                                            
 4/07/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                       
 4/07/99               (S)  MOVED CS (RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                     
 4/07/99               (S)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 4/09/99       844     (S)  RES RPT  CS  1DP 3NR      NEW TITLE                                                                 
 4/09/99       845     (S)  DP: HALFORD; NR: GREEN, PETE KELLY,                                                                 
 4/09/99       845     (S)  TAYLOR                                                                                              
 4/09/99       845     (S)  FISCAL NOTE TO CS (LAW)                                                                             
 4/09/99       845     (S)  FISCAL NOTE TO BILL (DEC)                                                                           
 4/12/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/12/99               (S)  MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                         
 4/12/99       875     (S)  FISCAL NOTE TO CS (DEC)                                                                             
 4/19/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/19/99               (S)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/27/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/27/99               (S)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/30/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/30/99               (S)  MOVED CS(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                      
 4/30/99      1184     (S)  FIN RPT  CS  3DP 4NR      NEW TITLE                                                                 
 5/03/99               (S)  RLS AT 11:20 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 5/03/99      1202     (S)  FIN CS RECEIVED                                                                                     
 4/30/99      1184     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, PHILLIPS, DONLEY;                                                                    
 4/30/99      1184     (S)  NR: GREEN, PETE KELLY, ADAMS, WILKEN                                                                
 5/04/99               (S)  RLS AT 11:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 5/04/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 5/04/99      1220     (S)  FISCAL NOTE (S.FIN/DEC)                                                                             
 5/04/99      1222     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 5/4/99                                                                   
 5/04/99      1226     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 5/04/99      1226     (S)  FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                         
 5/04/99      1226     (S)  HELD IN SECOND READING TO 5/5 CAL                                                                   
 5/05/99      1255     (S)  AM NO 1      ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                   
 5/05/99      1255     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 5/05/99      1255     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 128(FIN) AM                                                               
 5/05/99      1256     (S)  PASSED Y18 N2                                                                                       
 5/05/99      1256     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 5/05/99      1262     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 5/06/99      1193     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/06/99      1193     (H)  RESOURCES, FINANCE                                                                                  
 5/12/99               (H)  RES AT  1:30 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/12/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR 2                                                                                                                     
SHORT TITLE: SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE; RESOURCES                                                                                
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) COGHILL, Barnes, Green, Masek                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/24/99       300     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/24/99       300     (H)  WTR, FSH, RESOURCES                                                                                 
 3/16/99               (H)  WTR AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 3/16/99               (H)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 3/16/99               (H)  MINUTE(WTR)                                                                                         
 3/17/99       490     (H)  WTR RPT  4DP 2DNP                                                                                   
 3/17/99       490     (H)  DP: MASEK, GREEN, COWDERY, BARNES;                                                                  
 3/17/99       490     (H)  DNP: BERKOWITZ, JOULE                                                                               
 3/17/99       490     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR)                                                                            
 3/17/99       497     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                                                                                 
 4/12/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/12/99               (H)  <BILL POSTPONED TO 4/19>                                                                            
 4/19/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/19/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/19/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 4/26/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/26/99               (H)  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                             
 5/03/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/03/99               (H)  MOVED CSHCR 2(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                 
 5/03/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/05/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/05/99               (H)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 5/05/99      1177     (H)  FSH RPT  CS(FSH) 1DNP 3NR                                                                           
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  DNP: MORGAN; NR: WHITAKER, HUDSON,                                                                  
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  SMALLEY                                                                                             
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR) 3/17/99                                                                    
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                               
 5/07/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/07/99               (H)  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                             
 5/07/99      1246     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): MASEK                                                                                 
 5/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JANE ANGVIK, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Land                                                                                                                
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
3601 C Street, Suite 1122                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska  99503-5947                                                                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 269-8503                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to CSSB 7(FIN) am;                                                                  
                    testified on SB 171 am that Administration had                                                              
                    no opposition after bill was amended in                                                                     
                    committee to remove Section 4.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MEL KROGSENG, Legislative Assistant                                                                                             
     to Senator Taylor                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 30                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3873                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information on CSSB 7(FIN) am.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WENDY REDMAN, Vice President                                                                                                    
Statewide University of Alaska System                                                                                           
University of Alaska                                                                                                            
P.O. Box 755200                                                                                                                 
Fairbanks, Alaska  99775                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 474-7582                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding the university's                                                              
                     land holdings and development process.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRETT HUBER, Legislative Assistant                                                                                              
   to Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 121                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-4958                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented SB 171 am on behalf of sponsor.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison                                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                                                                              
P.O. Box 25526                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 465-6143                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 171 am.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEPHEN WHITE, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                       
Natural Resources Section                                                                                                       
Civil Division (Juneau)                                                                                                         
Department of Law                                                                                                               
P.O. Box 110300                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska  99811-0300                                                                                                      
Telephone:  (907) 465-3600                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding SB 171 am.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY WEBER, Secretary                                                                                                           
Alaska Underground Tank Owners and Operators Association                                                                        
PO Box 871216                                                                                                                   
Wasilla, Alaska 99687                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 376-5900                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed concerns with the definition of "net                                                             
                    worth."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DARWIN PETERSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant                                                                           
   and Senate Finance Committee Aide                                                                                            
   to Senator John Torgerson                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 516                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-2138                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed CSSB 128(FIN)am.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN DAUGHERTY, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                    
Natural Sections Division                                                                                                       
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Department of Law                                                                                                               
PO Box 110300                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 465-3600                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed proposed amendments from the                                                                     
                     Department of Law.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE KRIETZER, Legislative Assistant                                                                                         
     and Senate Finance Committee Aide                                                                                          
     to Senator Leman                                                                                                           
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 115                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-2095                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director                                                                                                
Board of Storage Tank Assistance                                                                                                
Division of Spill Prevention & Response                                                                                         
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 105                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 465-5219                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed problems with CSSB 128(FIN)am.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
LARRY DIETRICK, Acting Director                                                                                                 
Division of Spill Prevention & Response                                                                                         
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 105                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 465-5220                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed his concerns with CSSB 128(FIN)am.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JAMES HAYDEN, Program Manager                                                                                                   
Storage Tank Program                                                                                                            
Division of Spill Prevention & Response                                                                                         
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
410 Willoughby Avenue, Suite 105                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1795                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 465-5200                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed the aboveground storage tank                                                                     
                  program.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-35, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JERRY SANDERS called the House Resources Standing                                                                      
Committee meeting to order at 1:27 p.m.  Members present at the                                                                 
call to order were Representatives Sanders, Masek, Harris, Morgan                                                               
and Whitaker.  Representatives Joule, Kapsner, Ogan and Barnes                                                                  
arrived at 1:33 p.m., approximately 1:40 p.m., 1:59 p.m. and 2:16                                                               
p.m., respectively.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB   7-INCREASE LAND GRANT TO UNIV. OF ALASKA                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced that the first order of business before                                                              
the committee would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 7(FIN) am, "An Act                                                                
relating to the University of Alaska and university land, and                                                                   
authorizing the University of Alaska to select additional state                                                                 
land."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0095                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JANE ANGVIK, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural                                                                  
Resources, testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  She                                                                    
informed the committee that the Administration is opposed to SB 7.                                                              
This legislation places the university in competition with                                                                      
municipal governments for access to land.  There is also concern                                                                
that the pattern of use for the state lands will be significantly                                                               
altered as a result of the University Lands Act.  Ms. Angvik                                                                    
believed in the full funding of the university and encouraged that,                                                             
however, this legislation is viewed as an appropriation of state                                                                
lands and the revenue of those lands directly to the university.                                                                
She indicated that this legislation would remove the land from the                                                              
management of the best interest of all Alaskans.  This legislation                                                              
will further complicate land ownership which would increase the                                                                 
difficulties with resource development and public access.  She                                                                  
explained that the university has different rules than those                                                                    
required by Title 38.  State lands are required to have a public                                                                
process while the university's policies are unknown.  Furthermore,                                                              
the Board of Regents would establish those policies under which the                                                             
same public process is not required.  Similarly, the university is                                                              
not required to follow the same intended use of public lands that                                                               
are described by the area land use plans which have been prepared                                                               
for the use of state lands.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK specified that this legislation places the university in                                                             
competition with municipalities that have not yet finished or need                                                              
to revise their municipal entitlements.  She noted that the Alaska                                                              
Municipal League (AML) is concerned about this proposal.  While                                                                 
this legislation was amended on the Senate floor to provide                                                                     
municipal governments with the first right of refusal on land, the                                                              
university's pool for land selection is much larger than that of                                                                
municipal governments.  Therefore, the AML has requested that the                                                               
pool for municipal governments be expanded to include all the lands                                                             
from which the university can select or limit the university's                                                                  
selection pool to the same as that available to the municipalities.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0381                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK expressed concern that the Division of Lands' capacity                                                               
to fulfill the municipal entitlements for existing municipalities                                                               
would be significantly impaired by this bill.  She pointed out that                                                             
one of the major policy effects of this legislation is that should                                                              
future boroughs try to be established, those municipal governments                                                              
would be precluded from having access to the best lands which the                                                               
university is predicted to choose.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK stressed that although as currently written, the bill                                                                
would require the university to pay the cost of the selection and                                                               
conveyance of the lands, the bill will be expensive to administer.                                                              
She believed that much money would be spent up-front and  the                                                                   
university would not accrue revenues for some time.  The university                                                             
would be better served, if the legislature provided direct                                                                      
appropriations for the management of the university as opposed to                                                               
the appropriation of lands.  She believed that the university can                                                               
select rights-of-way, gravel deposits, and land planned for                                                                     
disposal in order that revenues from those sources would benefit                                                                
the university rather than the programs of the rest of the state.                                                               
She indicated that there would be a limiting effect on the ability                                                              
of the state to sell lands in the immediate future because the                                                                  
lands most likely to be disposed or available for sale by the                                                                   
Division of Lands are the lands most likely to be pursued by the                                                                
university for selection.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0570                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK noted that at the last meeting, the university testified                                                             
that it was able to generate $32 million in the time that it has                                                                
held the land it had transferred compared to the $590,000 generated                                                             
by the state in the same time period.  She pointed out that the                                                                 
vast majority of the university's funds are derived from the timber                                                             
resources in Yakataga.  The state still owns that land, but the                                                                 
university has the right to harvest the timber resources in                                                                     
Yakataga.  Furthermore, the university is in a position to have                                                                 
more up-front funding for the development of lands than are general                                                             
state lands.  For example, Ms. Angvik informed the committee that                                                               
it costs about $4 per acre for the university to manage its land                                                                
while the Division of Lands operates on a thirty cents per acre                                                                 
management fund.  In conclusion, Ms. Angvik encouraged the                                                                      
committee to consider the land development patterns in the state                                                                
which will compound and conflict with resource development.  Ms.                                                                
Angvik reiterated the Administration's opposition to this                                                                       
legislation.  She also noted that similar legislation has been                                                                  
vetoed by Governor Knowles twice before and once before by Governor                                                             
Egan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEL KROGSENG, Legislative Assistant to Senator Taylor, Alaska State                                                             
Legislature, requested that Ms. Redman join her at the table and                                                                
address the process by which the Board of Regents determines how                                                                
its land will be managed.  She also requested that Ms. Redman                                                                   
discuss how much of the university's  land is currently being                                                                   
actively managed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0861                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WENDY REDMAN, Vice President, Statewide University of Alaska                                                                    
System, informed the committee that currently the university has                                                                
112,000 acres of land and an additional interest in another 85,000                                                              
acres.  As noted earlier, the university was given the rights to a                                                              
single cut in the Yakataga region.  Of the total land and interest                                                              
in land of the university, a little over half is currently in                                                                   
active management.  She pointed out that the remaining portion,                                                                 
about 80,000 acres, includes about 36,000 acres which are not                                                                   
developable.  The remaining 50,000 acres are either very remote or                                                              
viewed by the university as a long-term investment.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. KROGSENG reiterated her question regarding the management plan                                                              
and the public process utilized to develop that plan.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. REDMAN pointed out that the university's public process is                                                                  
specified in the board's policy.  Part of that policy is included                                                               
in the legislation itself in order to ensure the public process.                                                                
She acknowledged that the university's public process is slightly                                                               
different than the state's process.  The university's public                                                                    
process is extensive at the local level and the university is                                                                   
subject to the same local laws in terms of development.  Ms. Redman                                                             
clarified her statement from the previous hearing regarding the                                                                 
university's land managment.  She said that DNR has not had the                                                                 
staff or the resources to develop the lands of the state, while the                                                             
university has had those resources necessary for the development of                                                             
the university's land.  All of the development costs are covered by                                                             
the resources derived from the land, therefore the university does                                                              
not spend any general funds on its properties.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. REDMAN explained that she believed transferring land to the                                                                 
university is a good idea because the university is able to develop                                                             
the land.  If the state was able to place the appropriate resources                                                             
into DNR to develop the lands for the good of all Alaskans, Ms.                                                                 
Redman said she might not believe this to be appropriate.  However,                                                             
that does not look as if it will happen.  She viewed this as an                                                                 
alternative allowing a small portion of state land to be given to                                                               
the university to be placed in active management for the good of                                                                
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KROGSENG reiterated her comments from the previous hearing.  If                                                             
this bill is passed into law, the congressional university lands                                                                
bill is also likely to pass.  The congressional legislation                                                                     
contains a provision for 250,000 acres for the state university                                                                 
system with no strings attached.  The congressional legislation                                                                 
also provides an additional 250,000 acres for the university if the                                                             
state matches that amount with state land which the bill before the                                                             
committee would satisfy.  She utilized a map with an overlay to                                                                 
illustrate that the amount of land being discussed is one-half of                                                               
one percent of the entire state entitlement.  Ms. Krogseng                                                                      
encouraged the committee's support of this legislation.  She                                                                    
acknowledged that the university is not going to realize returns                                                                
for up to three years.  The university will probably not have its                                                               
hands on this land for another four to five years, after which the                                                              
university will have to develop a plan for the development of the                                                               
land.  This is a long-term plan.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN SANDERS asked if there were any further questions or                                                                
comments from anyone.  There being none, the public testimony was                                                               
closed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1292                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to report CSSB 7(FIN)am out of committee                                                             
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes;                                                              
she asked unanimous consent.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE objected.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll call vote, Representatives Whitaker, Harris and Masek                                                               
voted in favor of the motion to report CSSB 7(FIN) am out of                                                                    
committee.  Representatives Joule, Morgan, Kapsner and Sanders                                                                  
voted against the motion to report CSSB 7(FIN) am out of committee.                                                             
Representatives Barnes and Ogan were not present.  Therefore,  the                                                              
motion to report CSSB 7(FIN) am out of committee failed with a vote                                                             
of 4-3.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS called an at-ease at 1:44 p.m. and turned the                                                                  
gavel over to Vice Chair Masek.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK called the meeting back to order at 1:52 p.m.,                                                                 
noting that there was a quorum.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SB 171 - FISHERY DATA; LAND REC'D BY STATE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK announced that the next item of business would be                                                              
Senate Bill No. 171 am, "An Act relating to the release of certain                                                              
records and reports required by the Department of Fish and Game                                                                 
regarding fish, shellfish, or fishery products and reports of fish                                                              
buyers and processors; relating to the transfer of land to the                                                                  
state; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1407                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRETT HUBER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Rick Halford, Alaska                                                              
State Legislature, came forward on behalf of the sponsor.  He                                                                   
explained that SB 171 was introduced at the request of the Alaska                                                               
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G).  It amends AS 16.05.815, the                                                               
statute governing confidentiality of fishery records and                                                                        
information, to allow the ADF&G to share the records documenting                                                                
commercial fishery landings, fish buying and processing activities                                                              
within Alaska.  These amendments would allow transfer of this                                                                   
information to the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC),                                                                
the Alaska Fisheries Information Network (AKFIN), the National                                                                  
Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and the National Oceanic and                                                                    
Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).  Mr. Huber noted that                                                                        
representatives from the ADF&G and other agencies were present to                                                               
answer questions about the specific records transfers and their                                                                 
uses.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUBER pointed out that some members of the public have                                                                      
expressed concern that the bill may impact the "COAR reports"                                                                   
[Commercial Operators Annual Reports, to the Department of                                                                      
Revenue].  However, nothing in the bill deals with that issue, and                                                              
nothing would change in those reports.  In addition, provisions in                                                              
the bill ensure that state-selected land within the McNeil River                                                                
Wildlife Refuge would be free of encumbrance or unauthorized use at                                                             
the time of transfer.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUBER informed members that an amendment on the Senate floor to                                                             
the final section of the bill added legislative approval of any                                                                 
land transferred to the state that is found to have - or is                                                                     
suspected to have - significant environmental contamination or                                                                  
pollution.  Some Bureau of Land Management (BLM) transfers of                                                                   
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) school sites may have storage tanks                                                              
or contamination problems, as may some military reservations.  The                                                              
idea is for the legislature to ensure that lands aren't accepted                                                                
which have an economic encumbrance greater than their value.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1539                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE said he recognizes that the title includes the                                                             
last section of the bill [Section 4].  However, he wonders how that                                                             
relates to the rest of the bill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUBER responded that he had talked with the drafter from                                                                    
Legislative Legal Services, asking that same question before the                                                                
amendment was added on the Senate floor.  The drafter feels that                                                                
the title accurately depicts the contents of the bill.                                                                          
Furthermore, the single-subject rule has been determined to be                                                                  
quite broad in the past, including issues like "water" as a single                                                              
subject.  The drafter believes it is supportable that the single                                                                
subject is "as pertaining to natural resources."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1628                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked if anybody from the ADF&G had requested                                                              
Section 4.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUBER said no.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1648                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK called an at-ease at 1:51 p.m. and called the                                                                  
meeting back to order at 1:52 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1678                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), came forward.  He told                                                              
members that the ADF&G had taken Section 1 to Senator Halford, who                                                              
introduced it on the department's behalf.  He expressed                                                                         
appreciation for that, noting that he would confine his remarks                                                                 
primarily to that section.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE characterized this as a housekeeping-type bill.  He                                                                   
explained that the ADF&G wanted to make sure that they could share                                                              
data with agencies authorized to use confidential data to develop                                                               
nonconfidential reports that could be shared with the North Pacific                                                             
Fishery Management Council (NPFMC) and other entities.  Two types                                                               
of financial information here are confidential because they tie                                                                 
back to individual fishers or processors, he said.  This bill                                                                   
tightly limits to whom that confidential data can go.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE said in addition to the limitations in statute,                                                                       
confidentiality agreements will be drawn up between ADF&G and the                                                               
entities that would receive the data, including the Pacific States                                                              
Marine Fisheries Commission and a project they have called AKFIN;                                                               
they will combine the confidential data with other confidential                                                                 
data from the federal offshore fisheries, and then produce reports                                                              
that give a picture of offshore fisheries.  Referring to NMFS and                                                               
NOAA, he said this would authorize them to release confidential                                                                 
data and use it in court actions, without going through the                                                                     
administrative process of getting a court order to do so.  He                                                                   
mentioned the staff of the North Pacific Fishery Management                                                                     
Council, as well.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1820                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK turned the gavel over to Co-Chair Ogan, who had                                                                
joined the meeting.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE pointed out that two documents in committee packets add                                                               
more detail:  a memorandum to Earl Krygier of the ADF&G from                                                                    
Stephen White of the Department of Law, who was present that day;                                                               
and a summary prepared by Mr. Bruce titled, "Need for and Purpose                                                               
of Amendments to AS 16.05.815."  He noted that a representative                                                                 
from AKFIN was present to answer questions about their role.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1897                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE alluded to the fact that Sections 1, 2 and 3                                                               
address Title 16, whereas Section 4 addresses Title 38; he said he                                                              
was having a hard time making the connection.   He asked if the                                                                 
ADF&G has any concerns at all regarding the last part of the bill.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRUCE replied that he could speak to Sections 2 and 3, but not                                                              
to Section 4, as he had no knowledge of it beyond what Mr. Huber                                                                
had stated; he would therefore defer to the Department of Natural                                                               
Resources regarding that section.  He then specified that the ADF&G                                                             
has no objection to the sponsor's addition of Sections 2 and 3 to                                                               
the provisions requested by the ADF&G.  He also indicated that if                                                               
the sponsor is comfortable with the title, the ADF&G is comfortable                                                             
with it, as well.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1980                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEPHEN WHITE, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Resources                                                                    
Section, Civil Division (Juneau), Department of Law, came forward,                                                              
noting that he had worked on Section 1 with the ADF&G.  He offered                                                              
to answer questions but said he had no further comments.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2016                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. White about Section 4.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. WHITE explained that the constitution says every bill should be                                                             
confined to one subject, but the courts have read that very                                                                     
broadly.  Although some legislation has been challenged, the courts                                                             
have never struck legislation down as containing subjects that                                                                  
aren't somewhat related; if there is any way to connect all the                                                                 
subjects within a bill, the courts have allowed the legislation to                                                              
proceed.  One title, for example, said, "An Act relating to land,"                                                              
and the bill encompassed changes to the Uniform Land Sales Act,                                                                 
dealing with sales of land, as well as to the Alaska Land Act,                                                                  
dealing with disposals of land; the court said those two, because                                                               
they were related to land, were not so far off under the                                                                        
single-subject rule as to be stricken.  Mr. White referred to                                                                   
testimony that the subjects in the bill before the committee                                                                    
generally relate to natural resources and, therefore, have a                                                                    
connecting tie.  "Whether it would violate that rule, it's hard to                                                              
say," he added.  "All we know is the courts have never struck down,                                                             
at this point, any legislation under that constitutional                                                                        
provision."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2111                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JANE ANGVIK, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural                                                                  
Resources (DNR), testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  She                                                              
referred to Section 4 and expressing concern about what may be                                                                  
required of the Division of Land in receiving conveyance of the                                                                 
remaining 16 million acres of land that the state has yet to                                                                    
receive from the federal government.  She said she understood what                                                              
Mr. Huber had said about Section 4 but is concerned about the                                                                   
intent.  The division doesn't physically go and inspect all the                                                                 
land they receive, Ms. Angvik explained.  For example, they didn't                                                              
go and physically inspect the 90 million acres already received                                                                 
from the federal government, nor do they intend - unless so                                                                     
directed by statute - to inspect the balance of the 16 million                                                                  
acres yet to be received.  She added, "We are feverishly working on                                                             
a fiscal note right now to tell you what that would cost to have us                                                             
go actually inspect the lands."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK reported that Department Order 137, adopted in 1994 by                                                               
then-commissioner Harry Noah, was prepared in anticipation of the                                                               
final push for acquisition of state lands from the federal                                                                      
government.  Department Order 137 says the state can take land with                                                             
known contamination if the overriding value for which the land was                                                              
selected exceeds the cleanup cost; a good example is the North                                                                  
Slope.  Ms. Angvik added, "In normal real estate practices, if we                                                               
were to comply with this version of the law, [a] future owner is                                                                
generally expected to inspect the land to be purchased, donated or                                                              
conveyed, ... and it would be exceedingly expensive for us to do                                                                
that."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK explained that they currently use tools available                                                                    
without going physically on the land, such as historical records                                                                
showing previous federal mining claims.  However, the very reason                                                               
that the state selected an area may be the cause for the potential                                                              
contamination, as in the case of mineral areas.  They have worked                                                               
out a system so that formal federal mining claims go immediately                                                                
through the state to the existing claimant, without a break in the                                                              
chain in title.  Ms. Angvik emphasized that a primary reason for                                                                
selecting land is its high mineral potential.  In those cases, in                                                               
particular, there has been a mining operation for multiple years,                                                               
it is highly probable that it is contaminated, and the same                                                                     
operator chooses to become a state mineral claimant.  Ms. Angvik                                                                
told members, "We don't need to reclaim the land, so long ... as                                                                
they enter into a mining lease with the specific stipulations about                                                             
their bonding requirements when the mining is all done."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK pointed out that the state generally doesn't want                                                                    
contaminated parcels.  However, there are exceptions, including                                                                 
airports, schools and mining claims, the latter being the                                                                       
high-priority selections that the state is asking the federal                                                                   
government to convey.  If the legislature wants oversight on                                                                    
whether the state takes known contaminated sites, Ms. Angvik said                                                               
the DNR could provide information.  "But if we're going to require                                                              
an evaluation by the federal government, we're going to have to                                                                 
incur the cost of inspecting the land ourselves," she concluded.                                                                
She offered to work with the bill sponsor to try to achieve his                                                                 
goals, if she understood them correctly, but restated that the DNR                                                              
doesn't want to incur the prohibitive cost of physically having to                                                              
go and inspect every piece of land received.  She also referred                                                                 
committee members to Department Order 137, to see whether that                                                                  
achieves the goals that Senator Halford had in mind.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2386                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked about the zero fiscal note for SB 171,                                                               
dated May 10, 1999, supplied by Ms. Angvik on behalf of the                                                                     
Division of Land.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK pointed out that the zero fiscal note doesn't reflect                                                                
the amendment made on the Senate floor, which is Section 4 of SB
171 am.  She said she is working on a revised fiscal note in the                                                                
neighborhood of $700,000 to physically inspect for contaminants the                                                             
balance of the lands which the state is to receive from the federal                                                             
government.  She offered to talk to the sponsor's representative if                                                             
she had misunderstood what the bill prescribes or its intention.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2446                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUBER responded that Ms. Angvik had raised a legitimate                                                                     
concern.  As late as it is in the process, he said he believes the                                                              
sponsor would be comfortable with removing Section 4.  He indicated                                                             
the desire to work with the Division of Land on this question and                                                               
perhaps bring back subsequent legislation in the following session                                                              
that will make it more workable.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK replied that the division would be pleased to work with                                                              
Senator Halford on this aspect of land acquisitions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2485                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion to remove Section 4 and renumber                                                             
the bill accordingly; she asked unanimous consent.  There being no                                                              
objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2542                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ANGVIK specified that the Administration has no opposition to                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if anyone else wished to testify; there was no                                                              
response.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2575                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion to move SB 171 am, as amended,                                                               
from committee with the attached fiscal notes; she asked unanimous                                                              
consent.  There being no objection, HCS SB 171(RES) moved from the                                                              
House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called an at-ease at 2:15 p.m.  He called the                                                                  
committee back to order at 2:16 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SB 128-STORAGE TANK ASSISTANCE FUND                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced that the next order of business would be                                                             
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 128(FIN) am, "An Act moving the termination                                                              
date of the Board of Storage Tank Assistance to June 30, 1999;                                                                  
relating to the storage tank assistance fund, to financial                                                                      
assistance for owners and operators of underground petroleum                                                                    
storage tank systems, and to discharges from underground petroleum                                                              
storage tank systems; and providing for an effective date."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2630                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GARY WEBER, Secretary, Alaska Underground Tank Owners and Operators                                                             
Association, testified via teleconference from Wasilla.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN informed Mr. Weber that he has a proposed                                                                      
amendment which would increase the limit on the net worth to $1.5                                                               
million.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. WEBER said that he did not know if that was appropriate or not.                                                             
These service stations carry high asset values.  What is located                                                                
above ground at a service station amounts to about $250,000, while                                                              
below ground amounts to about $1 million.  Mr. Weber noted that                                                                 
this depends upon the size of the station, the type of the                                                                      
investment required to build the facility to which he could not                                                                 
speak.  Mr. Weber said that he would like to here from Senator                                                                  
Torgerson's office regarding why net worth needed to be redefined.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN commented that he was interested in helping small,                                                             
independent operators which led to his idea to create a single-site                                                             
exemption, however there were some difficulties.  He asked if Mr.                                                               
Weber could address that issue.  In response to Representative                                                                  
Barnes, Co-Chairman Ogan said that a "mom and pop" operation would                                                              
be a single site location in which an individual bases his/her                                                                  
entire livelihood.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES pointed out that on that single site there                                                                
might be a motel, a grocery store, and the gas station all of which                                                             
could be tied together.  She expressed the need to make the "mom                                                                
and pop" definition more narrow.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN recognized that as one of the struggles being                                                                  
faced.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2815                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DARWIN PETERSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant and Senate                                                                
Finance Committee Aide to Senator John Torgerson, Alaska State                                                                  
Legislature, said that he would address Mr. Weber's question                                                                    
regarding the current definition of net worth.  Mr. Peterson                                                                    
explained that Senator Torgerson and the Senate Finance Committee                                                               
did not want owners or operators of underground petroleum storage                                                               
tanks to use other business ventures or liabilities for other                                                                   
business ventures for inclusion in this definition of "tangible net                                                             
worth."  If the state is going to provide grants to these owners                                                                
and operators, the liabilities associated with the contamination                                                                
should be only the liabilities deducted for their tangible net                                                                  
worth.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was a way to craft language to                                                                  
address that issue.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETERSON hesitated to make any recommendations because Senator                                                              
Torgerson is reluctant to make any changes to the bill as crafted.                                                              
He offered to respond to suggested amendments with regard to how                                                                
Senator Torgerson may view such amendments.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked if Mr. Peterson had reviewed the                                                                    
proposed analysis to the proposed amendment.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETERSON acknowledged that he was shown a copy of that, but he                                                              
had not had a chance to review it or have Senator Torgerson review                                                              
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if the reference to "department" referred to                                                             
the Department of Law.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETERSON said he believed that to be referring to the                                                                       
Department of Law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-35, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
STEVEN DAUGHERTY, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Sections                                                                  
Division, Civil Division, Department of Law, explained that the                                                                 
department's first amendment would provide additional authority by                                                              
allowing the Department of Environmental Conservation to adopt                                                                  
regulations.  Currently, the bill allows the board to adopt                                                                     
regulations.  He pointed out the way the authorities are split                                                                  
between the department and the board, a full regulations package                                                                
would not be provided.  Without the amendment, the Department of                                                                
Law does not believe it possible to place regulations into effect                                                               
for the 1999 season under the current legislation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted that the 1999 season is upon us.  Is there                                                               
even the possibility of getting regulations in place?  He commented                                                             
that it took three years for one of his bills to receive                                                                        
regulations from the Department of Natural Resources.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2878                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY stated that there will be much money sitting until                                                                
the regulations are in place.  He believed there will be quite a                                                                
bit of motivation to get the regulations in place.  Under the                                                                   
Administrative Procedures Act (APA), the minimum amount of time to                                                              
produce regulations is about two-and-a-half months.  That would                                                                 
include the 30 day public notice and regulation review.  If this                                                                
amendment were adopted, the regulations could be started as soon as                                                             
the bill is passed, however the regulations would not be effective                                                              
until the rest of the bill becomes effective.  Even still, Mr.                                                                  
Daugherty projected late July or early August for the regulations                                                               
to be in place.  That time frame would be sufficient to allow some                                                              
work to proceed during the 1999 season.  He noted that even when                                                                
the regulations are in place, interested persons would have to                                                                  
apply and the department would have to act on those applications.                                                               
Therefore, he projected that about a month of work would occur.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY cited the second problem with the legislation.  The                                                               
current legislation only looks at the net worth of the owner, not                                                               
the operator.  The department views that as a large loop hole.  The                                                             
department has suggested language which would require certification                                                             
from the owner and the operator that their net worth is below $1                                                                
million.  He pointed out that the amendment provides one exception                                                              
for tanks owned by the state or municipality.  Under the current                                                                
legislation, if a tank is owned by the state or a municipality,                                                                 
even with an individual operator with a negative net worth, that                                                                
operator is responsible for that tank.  However since the state is                                                              
the owner, that operator would not be allowed to receive a grant or                                                             
a loan.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY pointed out that under the current bill, the net                                                                  
worth certification requires regulation.  He noted that the third                                                               
insertion of Amendment 2 provides an exception to the                                                                           
Administrative Procedures Act for adoption of the certification of                                                              
the net worth form.  The department has to develop a form for that.                                                             
He stressed that the department would still be required to provide                                                              
public notice.  He informed the committee that the department would                                                             
probably use the seven day notice and may only notice those on the                                                              
list for these grants rather than going through newspaper                                                                       
publication.  Therefore, the regulations would be adopted as                                                                    
non-APA regulations which would allow grants to proceed quickly for                                                             
probably most of the season, if not the entire season.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2685                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY identified the fourth problem as the definition of                                                                
"net worth" which is not consistent with its definition elsewhere.                                                              
The common understanding of "net worth" is assets minus liability.                                                              
The department's Amendment 3 would change the definition by                                                                     
inserting, ",including liability" after the word "liability."                                                                   
Therefore the definition of "net worth" would be assets minus                                                                   
liability, including liabilities associated with cleanup.  Under                                                                
the existing legislation, the definition is unenforceable.  He                                                                  
explained that in order to prove perjury, it would have to be                                                                   
proven that someone knew he/she was making an incorrect statement                                                               
which would be difficult.  There is also a problem in that the                                                                  
liabilities associated with cleanup are varied and indeterminate.                                                               
Those costs are unknown until an initial release investigation is                                                               
completed.  That initial release provides a rough estimate of the                                                               
cleanup costs.  He explained that someone could be approved and                                                                 
qualified, work could begin, and a site assessment could result in                                                              
discovering that the contamination is not as bad as thought or                                                                  
worse than predicted.  If the contamination is not as bad as                                                                    
originally predicted, that individual could be ineligible half way                                                              
through the process.  The same scenario could occur during the                                                                  
corrective action process.  Mr. Daugherty stated that those                                                                     
problems would be greatly reduced with a straight definition of net                                                             
worth.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN requested that Mr. Peterson speak to the                                                                       
department's amendments.  He asked if Amendment 3 was adopted and                                                               
the threshold of the net worth was lowered somewhat, would that                                                                 
alleviate part of the net worth concern.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETERSON commented that Amendment 2 is the least contentious of                                                             
the three amendments.  Mr. Peterson believed that the Senate                                                                    
Finance Committee would oppose Amendments 1 and 3.  The Senate                                                                  
Finance Committee took out the language in Amendment 1.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. PETERSON informed the committee that he was speaking on behalf                                                              
of one member of the Senate Finance Committee.  He pointed out that                                                             
Annette Krietzer, staff to Senator Leman, is present and may have                                                               
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2451                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ANNETTE KRIETZER, Legislative Assistant and Senate Finance                                                                      
Committee Aide to Senator Leman, Alaska State Legislature,                                                                      
commented that she is in the oddest position she has ever found                                                                 
herself.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked how this problem could be fixed.  He                                                                     
commented that he understood and supported what the Senate is                                                                   
doing.  He expressed concern that perhaps, large companies have                                                                 
benefitted from this, while some honest, hard-working people have                                                               
suddenly found themselves with a large liability.  Therefore, he                                                                
requested comments on how to make this user friendly for the                                                                    
smaller operator while staying within the parameters of the                                                                     
constitution.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER informed the committee that the program has been going                                                             
on for 10 years and there were no income limits initially.  The                                                                 
upgrading closure lists and the cleanup lists are included in the                                                               
committee packet.  No one else can be added to those lists.  Ms.                                                                
Krietzer stated that the Board of Storage Tank Assistance has done                                                              
a good job ensuring that the true "mom and pop" operations have                                                                 
already received grants or worked through the system.  She pointed                                                              
out that all upgrades and closures had to be completed by December                                                              
22, 1998.  The fiscal year (FY) 2000 completes the upgrade and                                                                  
closure program.  Therefore, what is at hand is mainly the cleanup                                                              
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER pointed out that there is $24 million worth of cleanup                                                             
remaining in addition to the money already spent.  There is a $1                                                                
billion deficit which is what the Senate was reviewing.  With                                                                   
regard to the $1 million net worth, that is the amount the Senate                                                               
Finance Committee agreed upon, although there was one amendment to                                                              
increase that amount which failed.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN commented testimony has indicated the $1 million                                                               
net worth amount to be unenforceable and not from traditional                                                                   
accounting means.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER said that discussion occurred in the Senate Finance                                                                
Committee.  The Senate Finance Committee reported the legislation                                                               
out of committee with that language.  There were amendments which                                                               
attempted to change the language which were not adopted.  With                                                                  
regard to the Department of Law's Amendment 1, she noted that the                                                               
Senate Finance Committee specifically removed the Department of                                                                 
Environmental Conservation (DEC) language.  Ms. Krietzer indicated                                                              
that the Department of Law's Amendment 2 would be consistent with                                                               
Senator Leman's understanding of how this legislation would work.                                                               
One of the concerns is regarding how the grant portion of this                                                                  
program can be least effected which the Department of Law's                                                                     
Amendment 2 would accomplish.  The Department of Law's Amendment 3                                                              
was not accepted by the Senate Finance Committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2108                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired as to what would happen if this                                                                       
legislation does not pass.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER stated, "I don't want to mislead the committee.  The                                                               
Senate Finance Committee and the Senate together have made a                                                                    
determination.  There was a motion on the floor to remove the                                                                   
funding, the actual transfer of the money from the Oil and                                                                      
Hazardous Substance Response Fund into the Storage Tank Assistance                                                              
Fund.  So, it no longer appears in the front section of the                                                                     
operating budget."  She understood that on the House side the money                                                             
remains.  The Senate views this legislation as the funding for the                                                              
storage tank program.  In response to Co-Chairman Ogan, Ms.                                                                     
Krietzer affirmed that the Conference Committee has not yet made                                                                
that decision.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired as to what would happen if the Conference                                                             
Committee does not put in the money and the bill does not move.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER said in that case there would be no money for the                                                                  
Storage Tank Assistance Program.  There would be no grants and no                                                               
capitalization for the loans because the $5 million transfer from                                                               
the Oil and Hazardous Substance Fund which capitalizes the Storage                                                              
Tank Assistance Fund is encompassed in a fiscal note that                                                                       
accompanies this bill.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked if this bill has a Finance committee                                                                 
referral where some of these questions could be better addressed.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1958                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN BARNETT, Executive Director, Board of Storage Tank Assistance,                                                             
Division of Spill Prevention & Response, Department of                                                                          
Environmental Conservation, noted that he testified on Wednesday                                                                
regarding the faults encompassed in this legislation.  Mr. Barnett                                                              
informed the committee that he has been involved in the business                                                                
end of regulations during his 20 years in the mining industry.  He                                                              
noted that he is essentially the drafter of the regulations and                                                                 
therefore, he expressed the need to have regulations that are at                                                                
least workable.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT said that he did some research and determined that the                                                              
definition of "net worth" in this legislation is contrary to every                                                              
definition currently on the books.  He found definitions of "net                                                                
worth" in statute and regulations which he provided to the                                                                      
committee.  Mr. Barnett said, "I see that as a dangerous precedent                                                              
to define tangible net worth as two completely diverse different                                                                
definitions within the state regulations."  He urged the committee                                                              
to change the definition of "net worth."  Furthermore, he did not                                                               
know how the liability associated with contamination would be                                                                   
defined.  There are 250 sites on the cleanup list and it is unknown                                                             
who will fall off the list, however all of those listed will submit                                                             
information.  Mr. Barnett said that it will be difficult to                                                                     
estimate these numbers.  That could be solved with a simple "net                                                                
worth" definition.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT indicated that putting the regulations into place would                                                             
be a problem.  Although there have been indications that all the                                                                
"mom and pop" organizations have been taken care of, that is not                                                                
necessarily the case.  As Mr. Weber's seven years of cleanup                                                                    
illustrates, it takes a long time to cleanup contamination.  There                                                              
are a number of ongoing cleanups as well as a number of cleanups                                                                
that have not even started.  Mr. Barnett informed the committee                                                                 
that when this legislation was first proposed, he offered language                                                              
that would have reduced the list in half.  With the current                                                                     
language, Mr. Barnett said that he would not really know who needs                                                              
assistance.  Mr. Barnett believed that it would have been                                                                       
appropriate to receive input from the tank owners before this bill                                                              
was drafted.  This legislation, SB 128, was introduced the last day                                                             
of March without any input from the industry or the consulting                                                                  
industry.  There are enough flaws in the current legislation to                                                                 
make it difficult for this program to work.  Mr. Barnett supported                                                              
the Senate's concept of the elimination of large companies from the                                                             
program.  He indicated that the bill appears to be on its way.                                                                  
Therefore, he requested that the "net worth" definition be made                                                                 
consistent with existing state and federal law.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES inquired as to the content of existing law.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT reiterated that he provided the committee with                                                                      
information regarding the current "net worth" definitions found in                                                              
Alaska's statutes and regulations.  Those definitions seem to be                                                                
consistent with the common use of "net worth" in the banking                                                                    
industry and general accounting principles which is assets minus                                                                
liabilities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES commented that there are many different                                                                   
definitions for various terms depending upon the statute being                                                                  
reviewed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT recognized that, but "net worth" is utilized by                                                                     
everyone and he indicated the need to be consistent.  In further                                                                
response to Representative Barnes, Mr. Barnett clarified that he                                                                
presented the Senate with the federal definition of "net worth" as                                                              
a proposed amendment.  That original language was briefly in the                                                                
Senate Finance Committee, but was amended by Senator Torgerson to                                                               
eliminate the language "minus liabilities."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1520                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LARRY DIETRICK, Acting Director, Division of Spill Prevention &                                                                 
Response, Department of Environmental Conservation, remarked that                                                               
he has been working on the legislation to make it acceptable.  He                                                               
understood the policy call of trying to define the threshold in the                                                             
"mom and pop" operations which the department fully supports in                                                                 
concept.  He explained that there are three components that are                                                                 
necessary which are the legislation, the operating budget for                                                                   
implementation, and the capital budget to capitalize the grant and                                                              
loan program.  He pointed out that the department has attached a                                                                
fiscal note.  The department's fiscal note indicates that the                                                                   
department can implement the legislation without an increase in the                                                             
DEC proposed budget.  However, there have been substantial cuts                                                                 
proposed for this program to the department's proposed budget.                                                                  
Those cuts would amount to 33 percent of the program or 10 of 33 of                                                             
the existing positions in the program.  The reduction is                                                                        
substantial enough that there will be a significant impact to the                                                               
implementation of SB 128 as well as to the ongoing cleanups.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK explained that such cuts have the effect of allowing                                                               
the contamination of the existing sites to migrate and continue                                                                 
creating larger areas of contamination.  Therefore, there would be                                                              
a significantly higher cleanup cost later since such cleanup would                                                              
be deferred into the future.  That is particularly difficult for                                                                
the smaller operators that are already facing a substantial burden                                                              
to deal with this problem.  Mr. Dietrick pointed out that the                                                                   
reduction also would decrease the engineering staff who have been                                                               
in this program for some 10 years and are very well versed in the                                                               
complexities of underground contamination.  This staff reviews and                                                              
closes out the cleanups and are responsible for issuing the "no                                                                 
further action" letters which are critical for lending                                                                          
institutions, property transfers and returning these properties to                                                              
economic reuse.  Therefore, the cuts the program faces would impact                                                             
SB 128 as well as those operators, the majority of which are                                                                    
cleaning up without financial assistance.  Basically, the legacy of                                                             
abandoned service stations in Alaska will continue.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK concurred with the statements made at the last meeting                                                             
with regard to accomplishing this work without the use of general                                                               
funds.  He confirmed that the funding is coming from the prevention                                                             
account which he indicated was a good use for the fund.  Mr.                                                                    
Dietrick identified the following four technical issues:  the "net                                                              
worth" definition, the transitional provisions which need to be in                                                              
place in order to do the rule making, the board retention to June                                                               
30, 2000, and the effective date of July 1, 2000.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1270                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK mentioned the impacts of these cuts should the                                                                     
transfer not occur.  Of the current cleanups, about 30 receive                                                                  
financial assistance while 250 do not.  The small operators who are                                                             
doing cleanup without financial assistance are those who will be                                                                
impacted.  He identified the three people in rural Alaska who are                                                               
working on aboveground storage tanks as an inadvertent reduction in                                                             
these cuts.  These three people are attempting to keep aboveground                                                              
storage tanks in compliance until the tanks can be upgraded.  He                                                                
also noted that the last of the grants are being processed under                                                                
the 1999 program.  These operators, upgrades, and close outs are                                                                
operating under a compliance order by consent issued by the state                                                               
that keep the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in Seattle                                                                  
until the upgrade and closure is complete.  With those reductions,                                                              
the EPA would assume enforcement in the last year and the                                                                       
department would not be able to audit the grants of about $4                                                                    
million for work which will continue in 2000.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES requested that Mr. Dietrick review his                                                                    
comments regarding the rural Alaska positions.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK explained that under the Oil Pollution Act two years                                                               
ago, the Coast Guard threatened to shut down fuel deliveries on                                                                 
Alaska's inland waterways to facilities with aboveground storage                                                                
tanks.  Aboveground storage tanks are mainly utilized in the                                                                    
interior of Alaska.  He informed the committee that he and the                                                                  
Division of Energy worked to estimate the total cost to upgrade                                                                 
those facilities which is estimated to be $200 million.  The new                                                                
Denali Commission has taken on that issue.  Mr. Dietrick                                                                        
anticipated receiving federal dollars through that route and to                                                                 
place it towards upgrades to those rural facilities.  Therefore,                                                                
the attempt is to hold the federal government at bay in order to                                                                
make permanent corrections to avoid the discontinuance of fuel                                                                  
deliveries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES recalled that the problem with those storage                                                              
tanks was identified about six to eight years ago and at that time                                                              
there was federal money available.  Are the same problems remaining                                                             
today?                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK explained that the Division of Energy completed a                                                                  
survey of the number of tanks that existed in the state was                                                                     
completed about two years ago.  Since that time, the Division of                                                                
Energy has put in a capital budget from the prevention account.  He                                                             
believed that the division is on its third allocation of $1.6                                                                   
million per year in order to actually do capital improvements at                                                                
some of the selected sites.  He said that $3 to $4 million has been                                                             
appropriated to date for that problem which just scratches the                                                                  
surface.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN passed the gavel to Vice Chair Masek.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES informed the committee that when the                                                                      
legislature rewrote the energy legislation, there was about $200                                                                
million worth of existing problems with storage tanks.  She said,                                                               
"Since that time when we rewrote it and got rid of all those                                                                    
employees that was living off the rural Alaska Division of                                                                      
Energy...the Division of Energy has now put themselves back another                                                             
eleven employees that's coming directly out of energy                                                                           
appropriations,...."  She was appalled by the fact that all the                                                                 
time and money spent thus far in this area has only accomplished an                                                             
inventory of the tanks.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0920                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JAMES HAYDEN, Program Manager, Storage Tank Program, Division of                                                                
Spill Prevention & Response, Department of Environmental                                                                        
Conservation, noted that he worked directly with the Department of                                                              
Community & Regional Affairs in implementing the limited                                                                        
aboveground storage tank program which is included in this funding.                                                             
He acknowledged that a small amount of state dollars has been                                                                   
expended in the last three or four years, however that money has                                                                
been utilized to match federal dollars, about $10 million.  The                                                                 
Division of Energy has made it a high priority to obtain federal                                                                
funding in larger amounts which appears to have been accomplished                                                               
this year through the Denali Commission.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES emphasized that the Denali Commission has                                                                 
just begun.  She said that she was referring to all the money it                                                                
received prior to this of which she indicated there were large                                                                  
amounts.  She reiterated that she was appalled at this situation                                                                
and intended to determine how much money was spent and where that                                                               
money went.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DIETRICK said, to his knowledge, there have been three                                                                      
allocations of $1.6 billion from the capital budget.  Beyond that,                                                              
Mr. Dietrick was unfamiliar with the Division of Energy's budget or                                                             
positions.  Therefore, to date, there has been a capital                                                                        
contribution of about $3 million to $4 million.  Mr. Dietrick said                                                              
that the [division's] assistance has focused on technical                                                                       
assistance because of it's contingency plan expertise.  There is a                                                              
federal requirement for those facilities to have a contingency                                                                  
plan.  The operators are worked with in order to overcome the                                                                   
violations with their contingency plans because fuel delivery stops                                                             
when an operator is in violation of the contingency plan.  Mr.                                                                  
Dietrick pointed out that it is a small staff of three that work                                                                
with those rural tank farms to bring them into compliance.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIRMAN MASEK returned the gavel to Co-Chairman Ogan.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called an at-ease at 3:07 p.m. and called the                                                                  
meeting back to order at 3:08 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced that Amendment 1 by the Department of                                                                
Law would be left up to the discretion of the committee.  Amendment                                                             
1 was not offered.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called an at-ease at 3:09 p.m. and called the                                                                  
meeting back to order at 3:10 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0530                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS moved that the committee adopt Amendment 2                                                                
which reads as follows:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, lines 9-12                                                                                                         
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(4)certifies under oath and subject                                                                             
          to penalty for perjury, on a form required by                                                                         
          the department, that the tangible net worth of                                                                        
          the operator is &1,000,000 or less as of the                                                                          
          effective date of this section, and unless the                                                                        
          tank is owned by the state or a municipality,                                                                         
          that the net worth of the owner is &1,000,000                                                                         
          or less as of the effective date of this                                                                              
          section."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7, lines 25-28:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(2)unless the owner or operator                                                                                 
          certifies under oath and subject to penalty                                                                           
          for perjury, on a form required by the                                                                                
          department, that the tangible net worth of the                                                                        
          operator is $250,000 or less as of the                                                                                
          effective date of this section, and unless the                                                                        
          tank is owned by the state or a municipality,                                                                         
          that the net worth of the owner is $250,000 or                                                                        
          less as of the effective date of this                                                                                 
          section;"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9, following line 7:                                                                                                  
          Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                      
               "(c)AS 44.62(Administrative                                                                                      
          Procedure Act) does not apply to the                                                                                  
          development of the form for certification of                                                                          
          net worth required under AS 46.03.420(c)                                                                              
          enacted by section 8 of this Act, and AS                                                                              
          46.03.430(c) enacted by section 11 of this                                                                            
          Act"                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER objected in order to review Amendment 2.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY explained that Amendment 2 closes a loophole by                                                                   
requiring a statement of net worth of both the owner and operator                                                               
of a facility.  Under the current language, only the owner's net                                                                
worth is reviewed.  Amendment 2 would also eliminate the statement                                                              
from the APA regarding net worth.  Therefore, the department would                                                              
be allowed to adopt regulations without going through the APA to                                                                
receive certification mentioned in these two amendments.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT explained, in response to Co-Chairman Ogan, that joint                                                              
and several liability speaks to everyone, therefore, the owner and                                                              
the operator would both be liable.  The original federal program                                                                
has always been owner and operator.  If there is an operator, the                                                               
operator would be as liable as the owner.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked if the tort reform law negates the                                                                  
problem with joint and several liability.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT said he was not sure that it does, but on the federal                                                               
level the owner and the operator are liable.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked then if the federal law was being                                                                   
utilized versus state law.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT indicated that the federal law would be followed for                                                                
liability for pollution.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY noted that he did not deal with much tort law, but                                                                
rather with strict liability.  Under state law, both the owner and                                                              
operator are liable.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0246                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was objection to Amendment 2.                                                                   
There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER moved that the committee adopt Amendment 3                                                               
which reads as follows:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, line 5:                                                                                                            
          Following "liabilities":                                                                                              
               Insert ",including liabilities"                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY explained that Amendment 3 would change the                                                                       
definition of "net worth" to the standard definition:  assets minus                                                             
liability.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES requested that the prime sponsor's                                                                        
representative respond.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER informed the committee that Senator Torgerson, prime                                                               
sponsor, is opposed to Amendment 3.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS inquired as the reasoning behind Senator                                                                  
Torgerson's opposition to Amendment 3.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER indicated that Mr. Peterson spoke to that earlier.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-36, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER said, "...talking about the state giving grants to                                                                 
cleanup contamination caused by an underground storage tank."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER requested clarification of Representative                                                               
Harris' objection.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER explained that the program was specifically                                                                        
established to deal with contamination and now it is being changed                                                              
to a loan program.  The legislature has the expectation that when                                                               
someone's assets are reviewed (indisc.).                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0076                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER indicated his agreement.  He asked if the                                                               
current legislation, restricts assets to only those assets adherent                                                             
to the cleanup.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. KRIETZER clarified that it would be the liabilities to the                                                                  
cleanup.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER inquired as to Mr. Barnett's thoughts on                                                                
Amendment 3.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0184                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT posed the scenario of a gas station with $1.2 million                                                               
in assets for that facility.  That gas station has $150,000 worth                                                               
of cleanup.  Under this definition, only the total assets of that                                                               
facility and the estimated cleanup cost can be considered.                                                                      
Therefore, subtracting the $150,000 from the $1.2 million in assets                                                             
and that individual would not qualify under this legislation.                                                                   
However, under the "net worth" definition they may have $400,000                                                                
and $500,000 in notes and mortgages which would normally be                                                                     
deducted and allow the individual to qualify.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if that would be adherent to the                                                                  
property in question only.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT said that was correct.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER surmised then that the preference would be                                                              
to adopt Amendment 3.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNETT supported Amendment 3.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER withdrew Amendment 3.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0360                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER moved that the committee adopt Amendment 3.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired as to Mr. Daugherty's interpretation of                                                               
the liability of assets.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAUGHERTY understood that this refers to all assets, not just                                                               
assets connected with the contaminated property.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll call vote, Representatives Whitaker, Joule, Kapsner and                                                             
Masek voted in favor of the adoption of Amendment 3.                                                                            
Representatives Morgan, Barnes, Harris, and Ogan voted against the                                                              
adoption of Amendment 3.  Representative Sanders was not present.                                                               
Therefore, Amendment 3 failed to be adopted by a vote of 4-4.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0544                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN moved that the committee adopt Amendment 4 which                                                               
reads as follows:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 12:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          Delete "$1,000,000"                                                                                                   
          Insert "$1,500,00[0]"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN explained that Amendment 4 would increase the                                                                  
total assets from $1 million to $1.5 million.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll call vote, Representatives Kapsner, Joule, Masek,                                                                   
Morgan, Harris, Whitaker, and Ogan voted in favor of the adoption                                                               
of Amendment 4.  Representative Barnes voted against the adoption                                                               
of Amendment 4.  Representative Sanders was not present.                                                                        
Therefore, Amendment 4 was adopted by a vote of 7-1.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0642                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that HCS CSSB 128 be reported out of                                                                
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal                                                                   
note(s); she asked unanimous consent.  There being no objection,                                                                
HCS CSSB 128(RES) was reported out of committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HCR  2-SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE; RESOURCES                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced that the final order of business before                                                              
the committee would be HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2, Relating                                                              
to the sovereignty of the State of Alaska and the sovereign right                                                               
of the State of Alaska to manage the natural resources of Alaska.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES noted that HCR 2 was heard at a previous                                                                  
hearing during which the bill, CSHCR 2(FSH) was held at the bottom                                                              
of the agenda and was never taken up.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0650                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move CSHCR 2(FSH) from the                                                               
committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal                                                               
note(s); she asked unanimous consent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE objected.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Upon a roll call vote, Representatives Masek, Barnes, Harris,                                                                   
Whitaker, and Ogan voted in favor of the motion to report CSHCR
2(FSH) out of committee.  Representatives Joule, Morgan and Kapsner                                                             
voted against the motion to report CSHCR 2(FSH) out of committee.                                                               
Representative Sanders was not present.  Therefore, CSHCR 2(FSH)                                                                
was reported out of committee by a vote of 5-3.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:23 p.m.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                

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