Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/05/1999 01:23 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                    May 5, 1999                                                                                                 
                     1:23 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Jerry Sanders, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Ramona Barnes                                                                                                    
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 134(RLS)                                                                                                 
"An Act authorizing the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission                                                              
to determine the amount of and to collect a charge for operating                                                                
wells subject to the commission's jurisdiction, and to allocate                                                                 
expenses of investigation and hearing; authorizing the commission                                                               
to employ additional professional staff; repealing the oil and gas                                                              
conservation tax; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSB 134(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 194                                                                                                              
"An Act correcting, in the Alaska Disaster Act, a reference to the                                                              
former oil and hazardous substance release response fund to                                                                     
describe that fund by its correct name."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 194 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 2                                                                                               
Relating to the sovereignty of the State of Alaska and the                                                                      
sovereign right of the State of Alaska to manage the natural                                                                    
resources of Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 9                                                                                             
Relating to Take a Kid Hunting Weekend.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHCR 9(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 104                                                                                                              
"An Act revising the procedures and authority of the Alaska                                                                     
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of Fisheries, and                                                              
the Department of Fish and Game to establish a moratorium on                                                                    
participants or vessels, or both, participating in certain                                                                      
fisheries; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 104(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE BILL NO. 23                                                                                                             
"An Act classifying anadromous streams and tributaries; relating to                                                             
the designation of riparian areas; establishing buffers on certain                                                              
streams and relating to slope stability standards on certain                                                                    
streams; and requiring retention of low value timber along certain                                                              
water bodies where prudent."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING CANCELED                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 134                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: WELL REGULATORY COST CHARGE/CONS. TAX                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) PEARCE, Halford                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/01/99       771     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/01/99       771     (S)  RES, FIN                                                                                            
 4/12/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                       
 4/13/99       899     (S)  RES RPT  CS  4DP 1NR      NEW TITLE                                                                 
 4/13/99       900     (S)  DP: HALFORD, PETE KELLY, GREEN,                                                                     
                            TAYLOR;                                                                                             
 4/13/99       900     (S)  NR: MACKIE                                                                                          
 4/13/99       900     (S)  FISCAL NOTE (ADM)                                                                                   
 4/23/99               (S)  FIN AT  8:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 4/23/99               (S)  MOVED CS(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                      
 4/23/99               (S)  RLS AT 12:25 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 4/23/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  FIN RPT  CS  4DP 3NR 1DNP NEW TITLE                                                                 
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, GREEN, PETE KELLY,                                                                   
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  WILKEN; NR: PHILLIPS, LEMAN, DONLEY;                                                                
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  DNP: ADAMS                                                                                          
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  PREVIOUS FISCAL NOTE (ADM)                                                                          
 4/23/99      1062     (S)  FISCAL NOTE (REV)                                                                                   
 4/27/99               (S)  RLS AT 12:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 4/27/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/28/99      1150     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR W/CS NEW TITLE                                                                    
                            4/28/99                                                                                             
 4/28/99      1150     (S)  DP: TIM KELLY, MILLER, LEMAN,                                                                       
 4/28/99      1150     (S)  PEARCE, ELLIS                                                                                       
 4/28/99      1150     (S)  FISCAL NOTE TO CS (ADM)                                                                             
 4/28/99      1153     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 4/28/99      1153     (S)  RLS  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                        
 4/28/99      1153     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                           
                            UNAN CONSENT                                                                                        
 4/28/99      1153     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 134(RLS)                                                                  
 4/28/99      1153     (S)  COSPONSOR(S): HALFORD                                                                               
 4/28/99      1154     (S)  PASSED Y16 N1 E2 A1                                                                                 
 4/28/99      1154     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 4/28/99      1154     (S)  ADAMS  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                    
 4/29/99      1174     (S)  RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP                                                                        
 4/29/99      1175     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 4/30/99      1102     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/30/99      1102     (H)  RES, FIN                                                                                            
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 194                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: DISASTER ASSISTANCE                                                                                                
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) WHITAKER                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/13/99       795     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/13/99       795     (H)  O&G, RES                                                                                            
 4/20/99               (H)  O&G AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 4/20/99               (H)  <BILL POSTPONED TO 4/29>                                                                            
 4/22/99               (H)  O&G AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 4/22/99               (H)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 4/22/99               (H)  MINUTE(O&G)                                                                                         
 4/23/99       944     (H)  O&G RPT  6DP 2NR                                                                                    
 4/23/99       944     (H)  DP: KEMPLEN, PHILLIPS, PORTER,                                                                      
                            SMALLEY,                                                                                            
 4/23/99       944     (H)  HARRIS, WHITAKER; NR: OGAN, BRICE                                                                   
 4/23/99       944     (H)  2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DEC, DMVA)                                                                     
 4/23/99       944     (H)  REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                               
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR 2                                                                                                                     
SHORT TITLE: SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE; RESOURCES                                                                                
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) COGHILL, Barnes, Green                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/24/99       300     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/24/99       300     (H)  WTR, FSH, RESOURCES                                                                                 
 3/16/99               (H)  WTR AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 3/16/99               (H)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 3/16/99               (H)  MINUTE(WTR)                                                                                         
 3/17/99       490     (H)  WTR RPT  4DP 2DNP                                                                                   
 3/17/99       490     (H)  DP: MASEK, GREEN, COWDERY, BARNES;                                                                  
 3/17/99       490     (H)  DNP: BERKOWITZ, JOULE                                                                               
 3/17/99       490     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR)                                                                            
 3/17/99       497     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): GREEN                                                                                 
 4/12/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/12/99               (H)  <BILL POSTPONED TO 4/19>                                                                            
 4/19/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/19/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/19/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 4/26/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/26/99               (H)  SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                             
 5/03/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 5/03/99               (H)  MOVED CSHCR 2(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                 
 5/03/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 5/05/99      1177     (H)  FSH RPT  CS(FSH) 1DNP 3NR                                                                           
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  DNP: MORGAN; NR: WHITAKER, HUDSON,                                                                  
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  SMALLEY                                                                                             
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.WTR) 3/17/99                                                                    
 5/05/99      1178     (H)  REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                               
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR 9                                                                                                                     
SHORT TITLE: TAKE A KID HUNTING WEEK                                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) PHILLIPS                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 4/21/99       899     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 4/21/99       899     (H)  RESOURCES                                                                                           
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 104                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: ENTRY MORATORIA ON PARTICIPANTS/VESSELS                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) HUDSON, Austerman                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/19/99       260     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/19/99       260     (H)  FSH, RES                                                                                            
 3/08/99               (H)  FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 3/08/99               (H)  MOVED CSHB 104(FSH)                                                                                 
 3/08/99               (H)  MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                         
 3/10/99       408     (H)  FSH RPT  CS(FSH) NT 4DP                                                                             
 3/10/99       408     (H)  DP: KAPSNER, MORGAN, WHITAKER, HUDSON                                                               
 3/10/99       408     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G)                                                                              
 3/10/99       408     (H)  REFERRED TO RES                                                                                     
 4/14/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/14/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/14/99               (H)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 4/21/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/21/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 4/21/99               (H)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 4/28/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/28/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/05/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK CARTER, Legislative Assistant                                                                                           
   to Senator Drue Pearce                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 111                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-4993                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented SB 134 on behalf of sponsor.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUDY BRADY, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Oil and Gas Association                                                                                                  
221 West Fireweed Lane                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 272-1481                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 134; expressed concerns.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MARK WORCESTER, Counsel                                                                                                         
ARCO Alaska, Incorporated                                                                                                       
P.O. Box 100360                                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99510                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 265-6544                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 134; shared AOGA's concerns.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL, JR.                                                                                                
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 416                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3719                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of HCR 2.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP                                                                                                                     
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
P.O. Box 73902                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 463-3830 (Juneau)                                                                                             
            (907) 455-4262 (Fairbanks)                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HCR 2 and HCR 9.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JOANNE GRACE, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                        
Natural Resources Section                                                                                                       
Civil Division (Anchorage)                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
1031 West 4th Avenue, Suite 200                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-1994                                                                                                   
Telephone:  (907) 269-5100                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HCR 2.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JUDITH JORDAN, Legislative Assistant                                                                                            
  to Representative Gail Phillips                                                                                               
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 411                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-2646                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HCR 9 on behalf of Representative                                                                
                     Phillips.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-30, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing Committee                                                               
meeting to order at 1:23 p.m.  Members present at the call to order                                                             
were Representatives Ogan, Sanders, Masek, Harris, Morgan and                                                                   
Barnes.  Representatives Joule and Whitaker arrived at 1:24 p.m.                                                                
and 1:26 p.m., respectively.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 134(RLS) - WELL REGULATORY COST CHARGE/CONS. TAX                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the first item of business would be CS                                                             
for Senate Bill No. 134(RLS), "An Act authorizing the Alaska Oil                                                                
and Gas Conservation Commission to determine the amount of and to                                                               
collect a charge for operating wells subject to the commission's                                                                
jurisdiction, and to allocate expenses of investigation and                                                                     
hearing; authorizing the commission to employ additional                                                                        
professional staff; repealing the oil and gas conservation tax; and                                                             
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0105                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK CARTER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Drue Pearce,                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature, came forward on behalf of the sponsor.                                                                
He explained that SB 134 repeals the existing oil and gas                                                                       
conservation tax, and it institutes a more stable funding source,                                                               
to ensure that the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission                                                                   
(AOGCC) is capable of carrying out its objective of protecting the                                                              
public interest.  The primary goal of the AOGCC is to ensure that                                                               
no hydrocarbons are wasted, he noted, and that operations are                                                                   
conducted in a manner that provides maximum recovery of the                                                                     
resource.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER advised members that the original intent of the                                                                      
legislature was to have the oil and gas industry pay for regulatory                                                             
cost oversight through the oil and gas conservation tax; that tax                                                               
is directly proportional to production, with a                                                                                  
four-mills-per-barrel fee rate.  Although production is declining,                                                              
the workload of the AOGCC is not, and the system is no longer                                                                   
sufficient to cover the costs associated with its operation.                                                                    
Therefore, SB 134 creates a program-receipt-type system in which                                                                
the regulatory cost charge is directly associated with the total                                                                
volume of liquids produced or injected, to more accurately reflect                                                              
factors directly associated with AOGCC's workload.  Furthermore, SB
134 provides for recovery of costs associated with an investigation                                                             
or hearing, which would be allocated to the parties involved if                                                                 
there were a unitization dispute on the North Slope, for example.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER reported that the AOGCC had experienced budget                                                                       
difficulties in the past; even when tax proceeds exceeded annual                                                                
appropriations, those weren't always appropriated to the AOGCC.                                                                 
Certain members of the oil and gas industry have raised concerns                                                                
that this type of program receipt system wouldn't receive the same                                                              
level of scrutiny during budgetary oversight by the legislature.                                                                
However, he said, Senator Pearce believes that the oil and gas                                                                  
industry is quite capable of bringing to the legislature's                                                                      
attention any excessive budget requests by the AOGCC.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER pointed out that SB [134] also strengthens the AOGCC by                                                              
adding four staff.  Currently, the level of institutional knowledge                                                             
at the commission is one person deep, including one petroleum                                                                   
engineer, one reservoir engineer and one petroleum geologist.                                                                   
"Right now, also, they feel that the inspection program is lacking                                                              
one inspector," he advised the committee.  "We've added one                                                                     
additional person to each one of those positions."  Mr. Carter                                                                  
concluded by saying SB 134 will create a more stable funding                                                                    
source, enabling the AOGCC to provide the monitoring services                                                                   
necessary to protect Alaskan interests into the future.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0426                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN referred to page 2, line 18, which says, "The                                                                     
commission shall annually determine regulatory cost charges under                                                               
this section."  He noted that it goes on to describe that the                                                                   
amount being collected approximates the appropriations made for the                                                             
commission's operating costs.  He suggested that some would argue                                                               
this gives carte blanche authority to the AOGCC, what he calls the                                                              
"Chilkoot Charlie syndrome," cheating the other guy and passing the                                                             
savings on.  He referred to Mr. Carter's opening remarks,                                                                       
suggesting the oil companies would have the ability to hold the                                                                 
legislature's feet to the fire because they have lobbyists                                                                      
representing them, and they scrutinize the budget closely.  He then                                                             
asked Mr. Carter to talk about the safeguards.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0582                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER explained that under the current system, the budget                                                                  
would still have to go through the Office of Management and Budget                                                              
(OMB), then through the budgetary considerations by the                                                                         
legislature.  He stated, "A good 'for instance' on why Senator                                                                  
Pearce doesn't share their concerns ... that it won't receive                                                                   
budget oversight is the APUC [Alaska Public Utilities Commission],                                                              
as most people are well-aware, has an enormous backlog of cases.                                                                
They came before the legislature recently and requested twelve                                                                  
additional personnel.  The legislature did not approve that; they                                                               
approved four personnel, even with the current backlog that they                                                                
have.  Senator Pearce doesn't share their concerns ... that it                                                                  
won't have legislative oversight, or the legislative oversight will                                                             
be somehow weakened by moving it to a program receipt system, as                                                                
opposed to a general fund receipt system."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0680                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked whether the APUC has this type of funding                                                                   
source.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER replied, "Regulatory cost charge.  And the oil and gas                                                               
industry pays that regulatory cost charge based on tariffs for the                                                              
pipeline right now, and they don't currently have that problem.                                                                 
But we've never heard a concern expressed about the APUC type of                                                                
funding system."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN noted that on page 3, lines 11-13, it says, "The                                                                  
legislature may appropriate to the commission for its operating                                                                 
costs under this chapter for the next fiscal year an amount that is                                                             
at least equal to the lapsed amount."  On line 15, it further says                                                              
that "the commission shall reduce the total regulatory [cost]                                                                   
charge collected" after they do that.  Emphasizing the word                                                                     
"shall," and noting that leftover receipts could be rolled forward,                                                             
he asked for confirmation that the legislature can do that already.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER explained that under the current system, with the                                                                    
conservation tax, it is actually general fund monies; it is up to                                                               
the legislature whether or not to appropriate those monies in their                                                             
entirety.  Under the system proposed in SB 134, in contrast, if                                                                 
there were $300,000 left over at the end of the year, that money                                                                
would be rolled into the next year's budget.  Under the formula,                                                                
they take the total volume of liquids produced or injected, as well                                                             
as the cost associated with the AOGCC's monitoring of those fluids.                                                             
For instance, if the total fluids under last year's operations were                                                             
3.3 billion, and Badami made up 1.2 million of that, then 1.2                                                                   
million would be divided [into] 3.3 billion; that fraction would be                                                             
multiplied by the approved budget, and that would be Badami's share                                                             
of that budget.  If it were rolled into the next year, each person                                                              
would receive a percentage of that deducted from the regulatory                                                                 
cost charge associated with the current year.  To remove any                                                                    
guesswork about current-year production levels for this year's                                                                  
budget, Mr. Carter explained, Senator Pearce had felt it would be                                                               
easier to use the volumes produced last year.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0892                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES commented that the system in place for the                                                                
APUC has worked very well.  Noting the AOGCC's $200,000 budget                                                                  
shortfall this year, as yet unaddressed by the legislature, she                                                                 
expressed belief that this is a good bill; she doesn't see it as a                                                              
tax on the oil and gas industry, she said, as it is a service                                                                   
provided to them.  Reminding members of the proposed oil company                                                                
merger, she stressed the importance of having the AOGCC continue.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0998                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN concurred that the AOGCC is important because of the                                                              
merger, and he characterized the commission as the policemen of the                                                             
field, with quasi-judicial powers.  He then asked Mr. Carter if                                                                 
Section 3 is simply the program receipt authorization.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER affirmed that.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN noted that AS 43.57 is the section on the oil and gas                                                             
conservation tax.  He stated his understanding that Section 4                                                                   
eliminates those two taxes, and that the rest of the bill replaces                                                              
it with program receipts.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARTER affirmed that, also.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1101                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN called upon Bob Christenson, chairman of the AOGCC,                                                               
who informed members via teleconference from Anchorage that he was                                                              
available to answer questions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1160                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUDY BRADY, Executive Director, Alaska Oil and Gas Association                                                                  
(AOGA), testified via teleconference from Anchorage, noting that                                                                
AOGA is a trade association whose 18 members account for the                                                                    
majority of oil and gas exploration, production, transportation,                                                                
refining and marketing activities in Alaska.  She said AOGA had                                                                 
testified before the Senate Finance Committee regarding concerns                                                                
about SB 134, and she indicated she would express continuing points                                                             
of concern.  Ms. Brady stated:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     AOGA supports adequate funding for the AOGCC, and for as long                                                              
     as AOGCC has been in place, the oil and gas industry has paid,                                                             
     through a tax, ... for its performance.  And, as was pointed                                                               
     out, for years that tax was more than the legislature                                                                      
     appropriated to the AOGCC.  And so, we have always supported                                                               
     adequate funding for the AOGCC.  It is an important                                                                        
     organization for us.  We were concerned when the Senate ...                                                                
     did not appropriate money for it this year.  We were concerned                                                             
     when the Governor's office didn't appropriate the money that                                                               
     they needed.  But we're also concerned that SB 134 creates a                                                               
     virtually unlimited funding taxing mechanism.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The commission is a regulatory agency which oversees the                                                                   
     underground operations of the oil industry on private and                                                                  
     public lands and waters in Alaska.  It is the agency which                                                                 
     regulates drilling and production of oil and gas, to ensure                                                                
     that physical waste does not occur, to ensure maximum ultimate                                                             
     recovery of oil and gas resources, and to protect the                                                                      
     correlative rights of all oil and gas interest owners.  It is                                                              
     also the agency authorized by the EPA [Environmental                                                                       
     Protection Agency] to manage the state's underground injection                                                             
     control program, which is a very important program to the AOGA                                                             
     members, and for which AOGCC receives, I believe, $100,000 a                                                               
     year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     It's critical to the oil and gas industry in Alaska that the                                                               
     AOGCC maintain a continuous ability to issue permits and                                                                   
     decisions that are required for ongoing oil field                                                                          
     explorations.  We realize the AOGCC needs adequate funding,                                                                
     and would remain interested in discussing options that will                                                                
     assure the AOGCC's budget is appropriate for the work they are                                                             
     required to do.  Some options ... might include a budget cap,                                                              
     a budget review committee comprised of members of the AOGCC,                                                               
     the legislature, the industry and the public, or some other                                                                
     mechanisms.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     And I believe if 133 passes, then ... there is an oversight by                                                             
     Legislative Budget and Audit in this next summer about the                                                                 
     functions of the AOGCC, along with the functions of the APUC,                                                              
     that the question of what the agency does or does not spend                                                                
     its time on ... will become clear to everybody.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     We're concerned that the funding mechanism embodied in [SB]                                                                
     134 charges an assessment on oil, gas and water which is                                                                   
     injected, as well as oil and gas produced.  AOGA would propose                                                             
     that a fee be assessed on revenue-generating production of oil                                                             
     and gas, and that the funding mechanism be less complicated                                                                
     and, therefore, less subject to controversy.  Assessing a fee                                                              
     based on the volume of production also would be more equitable                                                             
     to the industry, as it would not overburden low-volume fields.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     We are very interested in working on an acceptable proposal in                                                             
     the next few days, which would provide funding certainty for                                                               
     the AOGCC and would also provide a level of equity and                                                                     
     certainty for the industry.  We reiterate our continuing                                                                   
     support for a fully functional, adequately funded, independent                                                             
     AOGCC.  We remain committed to working with the legislature                                                                
     and the Administration to develop an appropriate and                                                                       
     accountable way to fund the AOGCC.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1414                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN declared that the committee's purview is to make sure                                                             
that bills are in the best interests of resource development in the                                                             
state.  He suggested that funding questions and sources might be                                                                
better handled by the House Finance Committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES commented that the legislature is under                                                                   
tremendous pressure to get their fiscal house in order, and she                                                                 
looks upon this bill as one way to do that.  She expressed                                                                      
dissatisfaction with hearing that this bill needs to be rewritten                                                               
at this late date.  She pointed out that there would be oversight                                                               
because the legislature oversees all state agencies.  Furthermore,                                                              
she said, she believes that the legislature would be the first to                                                               
step in, if there were exorbitant fees or no justification for what                                                             
was being charged.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1516                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. BRADY reported that AOGA is trying to discuss with the bill                                                                 
sponsor another approach to the funding mechanism.  If they are                                                                 
able to work out a compromise on that, it will be presented to the                                                              
House Finance Committee.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN restated his belief that the House Finance Committee                                                              
is the appropriate venue for the funding sources.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1585                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARK WORCESTER, Counsel, ARCO Alaska, Incorporated (ARCO),                                                                      
testified via teleconference from Anchorage, stating that generally                                                             
ARCO supports, and obviously is a supporter of, AOGA, and they                                                                  
endorse the statement that Judy Brady gave.  Emphasizing a few                                                                  
points, he told members:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     We, as AOGA, support full and adequate funding for the AOGCC,                                                              
     ... and it seems to be a consensus on the committee, as well,                                                              
     that this is an important agency, and it should have adequate                                                              
     funding.  We share the concerns articulated by AOGA about the                                                              
     funding sources, and how the appropriation process works.  We                                                              
     believe that there are a number of ways that could potentially                                                             
     address our concerns.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     One would be ... if we used a tax on production, putting a ...                                                             
     per-mill limit, with a cap. ... Another way would be some sort                                                             
     of oversight committee, comprised of a variety of input                                                                    
     sources - from the Administration, legislature, industry,                                                                  
     public, or whatever is deemed appropriate - to review the                                                                  
     budget before it's submitted.  And we're prepared to consider                                                              
     any other options, and to work cooperatively and                                                                           
     constructively to get something that serves everyone's                                                                     
     interests and meets all the concerns.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     And, finally, ARCO supports these comments that were made just                                                             
     in recent discussions that this is an appropriate issue for                                                                
     the Finance Committee.  And we are quite committed to working                                                              
     with the sponsor, interested members of the legislature, the                                                               
     commission, and the Finance Committee to find an appropriate                                                               
     resolution to everyone's concerns.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1697                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if anyone else wished to testify, then closed                                                               
public testimony.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES indicated her belief that whatever work a                                                                 
committee feels is necessary, including work on financial issues,                                                               
should be addressed before moving a bill forward.  Having said                                                                  
that, she stated that she believes SB 134 is technically correct                                                                
and fiscally relevant.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1779                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move CSSB 134(RLS) from the                                                              
committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal                                                               
notes; she asked unanimous consent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN clarified that his own statements about the funding                                                               
didn't reflect a belief that the bill is flawed.  However, people                                                               
had testified to the contrary, and he believes it is appropriate                                                                
that the House Finance Committee look at it.  Co-Chair Ogan asked                                                               
if there was any objection to moving the bill.  There being no                                                                  
objection, he announced that CSSB 134(RLS) was moved from the House                                                             
Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HB 194 - DISASTER ASSISTANCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the next item of business would be                                                                 
House Bill No. 194, "An Act correcting, in the Alaska Disaster Act,                                                             
a reference to the former oil and hazardous substance release                                                                   
response fund to describe that fund by its correct name."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1920                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER, sponsor, advised fellow members that HB
194 is a housekeeping bill.  As noted in the sponsor statement, the                                                             
language change has no effect other than ensuring that the statutes                                                             
read as they should.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked if anyone had questions or wished to testify;                                                               
there was no response.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1934                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move HB 194 out of committee                                                             
with individual recommendations and attached [zero] fiscal notes;                                                               
she asked unanimous consent.  There being no objection, HB 194                                                                  
moved from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HCR 2 - SOVEREIGNTY OF THE STATE; RESOURCES                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the next item of business would be                                                                 
House Concurrent Resolution No. 2, relating to the sovereignty of                                                               
the State of Alaska and the sovereign right of the State of Alaska                                                              
to manage the natural resources of Alaska.  Before the committee                                                                
was CSHCR 2(FSH).                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1971                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COGHILL, JR., Alaska State Legislature, prime                                                               
sponsor, explained that HCR 2 calls for this legislature to ask the                                                             
Governor to appeal to the United States Supreme Court for                                                                       
resolution of an issue about which there is strong disagreement in                                                              
Alaska.  He suggested that many hard feelings in Alaska may have                                                                
been stirred up by an impasse caused by the federal government.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL noted that HCR 2 begins with a short history                                                             
of Alaska's admission to the Union under the Equal Footing                                                                      
Doctrine, and mentions how the submerged lands give the state the                                                               
exclusive right to manage its fisheries.  It also talks about the                                                               
state constitution in several places, including that the resources                                                              
are for the common use of the people.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL explained that the legitimate dispute now                                                                
between Congress and the state is because Title VIII of the Alaska                                                              
National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA) causes the state                                                              
to manage resources against its own constitution.  The state cannot                                                             
simply amend the constitution to get out of it.  Rather, it would                                                               
require revising the entire constitution, which would necessitate                                                               
calling for a constitutional convention.  Therefore, he believes                                                                
the state has legitimate grounds to appeal to the U.S. Supreme                                                                  
Court, based on original jurisdiction.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2104                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE requested clarification about the need for a                                                               
constitutional convention.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied that the changes that would be                                                                   
demanded of Alaska right now would change the constitution in                                                                   
several places, constituting a revision.  The Alaska Supreme Court                                                              
decision in the Bess case says that the state cannot just amend the                                                             
constitution in one area, but that it would constitute a revision.                                                              
Even without that, however, it would have to be amended in no less                                                              
than eight different places, he noted, in order to conform with                                                                 
what is being required.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL pointed out that the Alaska Supreme Court                                                                
and Congress have already spoken on the matter.  "We have a real                                                                
problem in Alaska trying to decide how we're going to answer that,"                                                             
he added.  Noting that this deals with rights guaranteed by our                                                                 
constitution, which the people formed, he said Alaska entered in                                                                
good faith into the United States under the Equal Footing Doctrine,                                                             
and signed off on the requirements to become a state.  There is a                                                               
legitimate appeal, therefore, and the revision of the state                                                                     
constitution mandated by congressional action needs to be reviewed                                                              
by the U.S. Supreme Court.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2203                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked if Representative Coghill thinks                                                                     
Governor Knowles would do this, when he has said he wouldn't.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied, "That is not for me to decide.  He                                                              
may or may not. ... That's his response.  Our response should be to                                                             
uphold our constitution, defend it as best we can, and, at this                                                                 
particular point, I think an appeal to the [U.S.] Supreme Court is                                                              
probably one of our last places of appeal.  I think we need to do                                                               
it.  We have a jurisdictional ground, based on original                                                                         
jurisdiction.  I think we're well within our grounds on a                                                                       
constitutional basis."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2249                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE commented that the objection to conforming to                                                              
Title VIII [of ANILCA] seems to do with equality, common use and                                                                
people in some parts of Alaska wanting to be equal to others in                                                                 
rural parts of the state.  He sometimes gets a little frustrated                                                                
that that equality seems to be a one-way street in the larger                                                                   
scheme of legislative appropriations and policy, he said, when                                                                  
other parts of the state are crying out for equity in other kinds                                                               
of state policies that the legislature passes.  He finds that to be                                                             
an interesting argument.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL suggested the question of how to equitably                                                               
take care of the urban versus rural areas is a frustration that                                                                 
everyone feels.  However, this particular resolution deals not with                                                             
that, but with the Department of the Interior's mandate that Alaska                                                             
revise its constitution.  He added, "To me, at this point, the only                                                             
answer that we can give is 'no,' and we take it to the supreme                                                                  
court for the answer to that.  That really doesn't have to do with                                                              
the equality of the citizens within Alaska.  It has more to do with                                                             
the equality of Alaska within the 50 United States."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2360                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN indicated he would be interested in somebody doing a                                                              
study about per capita expenditures by region, to perhaps settle                                                                
some of the arguments.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2386                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS noted that he'd heard HCR 2 in the House                                                                  
Special Committee on Fisheries, as well.  He asked if it is                                                                     
Representative Coghill's intention to ask Governor Knowles to bring                                                             
the state back "to where we were when Governor Hickel was here and                                                              
had actually filed the lawsuit and asked that the supreme court                                                                 
hear this, and then the present Governor removed that."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said no, the intention is to use original                                                                
jurisdiction as the basis for appeal.  During the days                                                                          
Representative Harris mentioned, it was in a circuit court.                                                                     
Because there is a time line mandate, he believes this is a                                                                     
legitimate appeal, he added.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS responded that he believes it was the                                                                     
intention in that previous case to have it go through the system,                                                               
to the U.S. Supreme Court, if it went that far.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL stated his belief that the appeal for                                                                    
original jurisdiction puts the U.S. Supreme Court in a position                                                                 
where it has to respond.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2458                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN commented that the Bess case certainly got his                                                                    
interest.  He noted that the amendment drafted last year, for                                                                   
example, which the Department of the Interior requested, on its                                                                 
surface affected just one area of the constitution, Article VIII,                                                               
Section 3, the common use provision, by adding a rural preference.                                                              
When he had asked the legislative drafters to draft an amendment                                                                
and show him the different areas of the constitution that it                                                                    
actually affected, however, they drafted a conservative amendment                                                               
of five sections affected:  common use, equal protection, no                                                                    
exclusive right to a fishery, uniform application and one other, as                                                             
well as possibly sustained yield.  Co-Chair Ogan asked what eight                                                               
areas Representative Coghill believes would be affected.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2518                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL acknowledged that some may be open to                                                                    
interpretation, then said the eight areas are:  Article I, Section                                                              
1, which talks about equal rights; Article I, Section 15, "no law                                                               
making any irrevocable grant of special privileges or immunities";                                                              
Article VIII, Section 3, "reserved for common use"; Article VIII,                                                               
Section 4, "subject to preferences among the beneficial users,"                                                                 
which he said may be a stretch; Article VIII, Section 13, "all                                                                  
surface and subsurface waters reserved to the people for common                                                                 
use"; Article VIII, Section 14, "free access to navigable waters or                                                             
public [waters] of the state of Alaska, as defined by the                                                                       
legislature, shall not be denied any citizen"; [Article VIII,                                                                   
Section 15], "no exclusive right of fishery ... shall be created";                                                              
and Article VIII, Section 17, "laws and regulations governing use                                                               
[or] disposal of natural resources shall apply equally to all                                                                   
persons."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2595                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN asked whether Representative Coghill has legal                                                                    
documentation backing up the fact that there would probably be a                                                                
revision required.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL answered that it is the Alaska Supreme Court                                                             
case, Bess.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN clarified that he was asking about what is being                                                                  
requested by the Department of the Interior.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL replied, "Just the supreme court, Bess.  And                                                             
with regard to the Governor making the case, he was also asked to                                                               
uphold this constitution. ... If he calls for a constitutional                                                                  
convention, that's within his right.  But in this particular case,                                                              
to amend our constitution, to acquiesce to Title VIII, I think we                                                               
would be out of bounds."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2629                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN said he doesn't mean to impugn the Governor's                                                                     
intentions here at all.  He then expressed hope that if this                                                                    
resolution is successful and the Governor decides to litigate, it                                                               
would be done correctly, so as not to establish poor case law,                                                                  
especially in the U.S. Supreme Court.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL remarked that he himself hasn't been taught                                                              
to do what is right based on what other people will do.  He                                                                     
restated his belief that the appeal is legitimate, expressing hope                                                              
that the legislature could change Governor Knowles' mind, as he                                                                 
believes this is one of the best answers coming forward now.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN commented, "Regardless of which side of the issue you                                                             
fall on, on the subsistence issue, I think if we did get our day in                                                             
the supreme court, it would settle it.  It may settle it in one                                                                 
party's favor over another, but it would certainly bring closure to                                                             
it."                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2871                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOANNE GRACE, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Resources                                                                     
Section, Civil Division (Anchorage), Department of Law, testified                                                               
via teleconference from Anchorage.  She emphasized that she doesn't                                                             
believe that Governor Knowles will follow the resolution's                                                                      
suggestion to file an original action in the U.S. Supreme Court,                                                                
challenging the constitutionality of Title VIII of ANILCA.  She                                                                 
reminded members that Governor Knowles has consistently stated,                                                                 
since taking office, that he doesn't believe litigation is the                                                                  
answer to Alaska's subsistence dilemma.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. GRACE cautioned that even in the unlikely event that the                                                                    
Governor were to change his mind, this case would face                                                                          
insurmountable jurisdictional problems, such as res judicata and                                                                
the running of the statute of limitations.  The U.S. Supreme Court                                                              
doesn't have to take an original action, she pointed out.  The                                                                  
state would have to petition the court, and the United States would                                                             
unquestionably raise the jurisdictional problems and the statute of                                                             
limitations, which was the basis of the court's dismissal of the                                                                
Legislative Council's lawsuit on Title VIII of ANILCA.  Therefore,                                                              
she doesn't believe that the court would take the case.  However,                                                               
if the legislature wants to pass the resolution anyway, she                                                                     
believes there are problems with some of its supporting language.                                                               
She asked if the committee wanted to hear testimony on that.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2808                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES stated that she feels personally offended                                                                 
that a member of the Administration would come forward on a                                                                     
resolution and testify that the Governor absolutely won't do this,                                                              
even before the legislation wings it way through.  She next                                                                     
referred to the question raised about the Legislative Council                                                                   
lawsuit and stated that she doesn't believe Judge Robinson's (ph)                                                               
ruling was correct, or else the legislature wouldn't have appealed.                                                             
She disagreed that the statute of limitations has run, saying that                                                              
otherwise the Department of the Interior wouldn't still be                                                                      
implementing regulations.  She proposed that it is fluid and                                                                    
changing.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2871                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GRACE responded that she hadn't meant to offend, but she                                                                    
believes it is her responsibility to reiterate the Governor's                                                                   
position on litigating this issue.  However, her main purpose is to                                                             
testify about the legal basis of the lawsuit and the supporting                                                                 
language in the resolution.  She explained that the statute of                                                                  
limitations would depend on the basis of the challenge.  As she                                                                 
understands the resolution, it would be a constitutional challenge                                                              
to Title VIII [of ANILCA], which would be a facial challenge,                                                                   
essentially saying that Title VIII violates the U.S. constitution                                                               
and therefore is invalid.  Ms. Grace pointed out that the statute                                                               
of limitations isn't fluid on such a challenge; it starts to run                                                                
when the law takes effect and therefore would expire six years                                                                  
later.  A different kind of challenge, such as a challenge to the                                                               
regulations, however, wouldn't have that same rigid six-year                                                                    
statute of limitations.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2942                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES replied that we are just now feeling the most                                                             
onerous effects of that regulatory scheme, and obviously there is                                                               
a legal challenge that can still be taken before the courts.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-30, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2955 [Numbers run backwards because of tape machine]                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), came forward, advising                                                               
committee members that the AOC supports HCR 2.  He agreed that                                                                  
there is a real dispute over the respective jurisdiction and                                                                    
authority of the federal and state governments, which he believes                                                               
is fundamental to a number of resource management issues.  Unless                                                               
and until it is resolved, he said, either politically or in the                                                                 
courts, it will be difficult - if not impossible - to reach a                                                                   
workable, long-lasting solution to Alaska's resource management                                                                 
questions, including conservation and allocation.  He believes it                                                               
is important for the legislature to highlight that controversy and                                                              
to urge resolution of it, by whatever means is at its disposal.                                                                 
Certainly, one means is pressing for resolution in the courts, with                                                             
the ultimate resolution being in the U.S. Supreme Court.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BISHOP recounted that the AOC was very disappointed when the                                                                
lawsuit filed by then-Governor Hickel was dropped by the current                                                                
Governor, who believed the case was counter to the interests of                                                                 
subsistence users and that it offended 15 percent of the people of                                                              
Alaska.  "He didn't at that time mention whether it was in the best                                                             
interests of the 85 percent of ... the people of the state," Mr.                                                                
Bishop added.  He acknowledged that it is history now, but the                                                                  
controversy and conflict in interpretation of jurisdiction remain.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BISHOP referred to discussion of HCR 2 in the House Special                                                                 
Committee on Fisheries.  There, he said, it was pointed out that                                                                
there is a conflict between the Alaska Supreme Court ruling in the                                                              
Totemoff case that the federal government had no authority in                                                                   
navigable waters, and, very shortly thereafter, the 9th Circuit                                                                 
Court of Appeals ruling in the Katie John case that the federal                                                                 
government did have authority in federal reserve waters.  Mr.                                                                   
Bishop stated, "That case was appealed; it was not heard.  So, that                                                             
disagreement between those two August bodies of legal                                                                           
interpretation still stands. ... It simply emphasizes the                                                                       
importance of continuing to seek resolution.  So, we strongly                                                                   
support this.  We think it is the appropriate thing to urge both                                                                
the legislature and the Governor to carry forward with this."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2804                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN pointed out that he believes resolving this issue is                                                              
in the best interests of 100 percent of the people of the state.                                                                
He expressed hope that both equal protection and subsistence                                                                    
interests can be accommodated.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BISHOP agreed, indicating he wished the Governor had                                                                        
characterized the issue that way in the first place.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2716                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move CSHCR 2(FSH) from the                                                               
committee with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal                                                               
note(s); she asked unanimous consent.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that he would like to put off moving the                                                                
resolution from committee until the end of the meeting.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2690                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES, without objection, withdrew her motion.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN turned the gavel over to Co-Chair Sanders.  [End of                                                               
this portion.  At tape number 2142, Co-Chair Ogan announced that                                                                
HCR 2 would be held over until Friday, May 7, 1999.]                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HCR 9 - TAKE A KID HUNTING WEEK                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS announced that the next item of business would be                                                              
House Concurrent Resolution No. 9, relating to Take a Kid Hunting                                                               
Weekend.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2639                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUDITH JORDAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Gail                                                                     
Phillips, Alaska State Legislature, read the following sponsor                                                                  
statement:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     HCR 9 seeks to name the second weekend in September each year                                                              
     as "Take a Kid Hunting Weekend."  Such an event would greatly                                                              
     assist in preserving our hunting heritage and to encourage                                                                 
     Alaskan hunters to become knowledgeable in the areas of                                                                    
     sportfishing and hunting.  Naming a special weekend would                                                                  
     complement the Hunter Education and Shooting Sports program                                                                
     funded last year by the legislature.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Representative Phillips is hopeful that the members of this                                                                
     committee are willing to dedicate a special weekend where                                                                  
     experienced hunters can pass along to our children hunting                                                                 
     skills, gun safety awareness and the contributions of                                                                      
     responsible and ethical hunter behavior.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE said he supports HCR 9 and wishes more people                                                              
would be encouraged to follow the intent.  He noted that one                                                                    
reason for wanting more adults to take children out is because                                                                  
Alaska has an abundance and variety of fish and wildlife resources;                                                             
however, that is not referenced in HCR 9.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2411                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE made a motion to adopt Amendment 1, which adds                                                             
the following language to line 3, and then renumbers accordingly:                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     WHEREAS Alaska's abundance and variety of natural resources                                                                
     are unmatched in the United States; and                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2452                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a motion to adopt Amendment 2 to page 1,                                                              
line 1, which changes the title to "Take a Kid Hunting Week" and                                                                
further reads:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 2:                                                                                                            
     delete "Weekend" after "Hunting" and insert week.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 6:                                                                                                            
     delete "Weekend" after "Hunting" and insert week.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2280                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE made a motion to adopt Amendment 3, which                                                                  
changes "kid" to "child" throughout.  There being no objection,                                                                 
Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2260                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, Alaska Outdoor Council, came forward again to testify                                                              
in support of HCR 9, noting that it is a step in the right                                                                      
direction.  He said he also believes there is not enough emphasis                                                               
on getting young people out to experience that, which certainly is                                                              
the message.  He also agrees with changing "weekend" to "week"                                                                  
because the children can get more out of it in the course of a                                                                  
week.  He pointed out, technically and ecologically, that other                                                                 
states have a greater variety and abundance of wildlife and natural                                                             
resources; however, Alaska's is still unmatched.  Mr. Bishop urged                                                              
the committee to move HCR 9.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2191                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved to report CSHCR 9 out of committee with                                                             
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal note.                                                               
There being no objection, CSHCR 9(RES) moved from the House                                                                     
Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS called for an at-ease at 2:28 p.m.  Upon the                                                                   
return of Co-Chair Ogan, he turned the gavel over to him.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN called the meeting back to order at 2:31 p.m.  [He                                                                
informed the committee that HCR 2 would be held over until Friday,                                                              
May 7, 1999, as noted in the section on HCR 2.]                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 104 - ENTRY MORATORIA ON PARTICIPANTS/VESSELS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN announced that the final item of business would be                                                                
House Bill No. 104, "An Act revising the procedures and authority                                                               
of the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of                                                               
Fisheries, and the Department of Fish and Game to establish a                                                                   
moratorium on participants or vessels, or both, participating in                                                                
certain fisheries; and providing for an effective date."  Before                                                                
the committee was CSHB 104(FSH), heard by the committee previously.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2120                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS made a motion to move [CSHB 104 (FSH)] out of                                                             
committee with individual recommendations and any attached fiscal                                                               
notes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SANDERS objected.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR OGAN requested a roll call vote.  Voting to move the bill                                                              
from committee were Representatives Whitaker, Joule, Harris, Morgan                                                             
and Ogan.  Voting against it was Representative Sanders.                                                                        
Representatives Kapsner, Masek and Barnes were absent.  Therefore,                                                              
CSHB 104(FSH) moved from the House Resources Standing Committee by                                                              
a vote of 5-1.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:33 p.m.                                                                 

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