Legislature(2023 - 2024)ANCH LIO DENALI Rm
09/26/2024 11:00 AM House LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
SEPTEMBER 26, 2024
11:00 AM
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Elvi Gray-Jackson, Chair
Representative Kevin McCabe, Vice Chair
Senator Click Bishop
Senator Matt Claman
Senator Lyman Hoffman
Senator Jesse Kiehl
Senator Donny Olson
Senator Gary Stevens
Representative George Rauscher
Representative Dan Saddler
Representative Cathy Tilton
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Bert Stedman (alternate)
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Sara Hannan
Representative Craig Johnson
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator David Wilson
Representative Mike Cronk
AGENDA
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
CONTRACT APPROVALS
EXECUTIVE SESSION
COMMITTEE BUSINESS
SPEAKER REGISTER
Jessica Geary, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs
Agency (LAA)
JC Kestel, Procurement Officer, LAA
Shay Wilson, Chief Information Officer, LAA
John Wright, Manager, Print Shop, LAA
Rayme Vinson, Chief of Security, LAA
Emily Nauman, Director, Legal Services, LAA
Mindy Kissner, Finance Manager, LAA
I. CALL TO ORDER
11:04:13 AM
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON called the Legislative Council meeting
to order in the Anchorage Legislative Information Office
Denali Room. Present at the call were: Senators Bishop,
Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson, Gray-Jackson;
Representatives Saddler, Tilton, McCabe.
Nine members present.
Senator Stevens joined at 11:05am.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON at 11:05am recognized Senator Wilson
joined online and Representative Cronk in the audience.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
11:05:27 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved and asked unanimous consent that
Legislative Council approve the agenda as presented.
The motion passed without objection.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
11:05:42 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council approve
the minutes for the August 14, 2024, meeting as presented.
The motion passed without objection.
IV. CONTRACT APPROVALS
a. Kodiak Lease Extension Renewal No. 2
11:06:06 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that the Legislative Council
approve Renewal No. 2 of the lease extension for Kodiak
office space in an amount of $70,396.44.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for the purpose of discussion
and asked that JC Kestel, Procurement Officer, speak to
this item.
JC KESTEL, Procurement Officer, LAA, stated that in the
packet is a memorandum regarding a renewal of the lease
extension for the Kodiak office space, currently occupied
by Senator Stevens and Representative Stutes as well as a
Legislative Information Office. The current lease expires
on October 31, 2024; Renewal No. 2 is for a one-year term
and, if exercised, would leave three one-year renewal
options remaining. This lease agreement exceeds fifty
thousand dollars in one fiscal year; therefore, Legislative
Council approval is required.
There was no further discussion. Chair Gray-Jackson removed
her objection and asked for a roll call vote.
11:07:45 AM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson,
Stevens, Gray-Jackson; Representatives Saddler, Tilton,
McCabe
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
b. Meraki License Five Year Renewal
11:08:48 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council approve
the five-year Meraki license renewal for $72,604 from
existing funds.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion and
asked Shay Wilson, Chief Information Officer, to speak to
this item.
SHAY WILSON, Chief Information Officer, Legislative Affairs
Agency, stated before the Council members was a memo
regarding the Meraki 5-year licensing. Meraki are hardware
devices that control internet access to our branch offices,
including the LIO, Legislative Audit, OVR, and Ombudsman.
These devices also provide security and wireless access at
those locations. The total cost for the 5-year renewal is
$72,604 to be paid out of existing funds.
He continued that without this expenditure we would not be
able to provide the wide area network that connects all of
our separate locations together; we would not be able to
provide wireless access at those locations; and we would
lose some layers of internet security that protect the
LIOs.
In response to a question from Representative Saddler about
Meraki's performance to date and their ability to meet
their responsibilities for the next five years, Mr. Wilson
responded that Meraki is best of class for these services
and does a very good job; owned by Cisco, Meraki is a
stable company that Mr. Wilson is confident will remain in
business.
SENATOR OLSON followed up with a question regarding whether
there have been any security concerns in the past with
these devices. He further asked what locations these
devices provide wireless access points for. Mr. Wilson
clarified that these wireless access points were in
outlying LIOs and legislative offices and that there
haven't been security concerns specifically related to
these devices.
There was no further discussion. Chair Gray-Jackson removed
her objection and asked for a roll call vote.
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson,
Stevens, Gray-Jackson; Representatives Saddler, Tilton,
McCabe
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
c. Purchase of Four Palo Alto 1410 Firewalls
11:13:59 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council approve
the purchase of four Palo Alto 1410 firewalls for $69,152
from existing funds.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion and
asked Shay Wilson, Chief Information Officer, to speak to
this item.
SHAY WILSON, Chief Information Officer, LAA, stated that
there was a memo in members packets regarding the purchase
of four Palo Alto 1410 devices. These are firewall devices
that will be installed to take the place of existing Palo
Alto 3410 devices currently installed in Juneau and
Anchorage. The replacement of the 3410 devices will
drastically reduce the year after year licensing cost.
These Palo Alto 1410 firewall devices provide VPN access,
firewall security, application identification and blocking,
as well as malware and network traffic inspection. The
purchase price of these devices is $69,152 and are to be
paid from existing capital funds.
There was no further discussion. Chair Gray-Jackson removed
her objection and asked for a roll call vote.
11:15:22 AM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson,
Stevens, Gray-Jackson; Representatives Saddler, Tilton,
McCabe.
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
d. Print Shop Copier Add-On Request
11:15:56 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council authorize
an increase of $2,900 for a document scanner attachment for
the new Print Shop copier from Boynton Office Systems by
amending the total authorized purchase to an amount not to
exceed $93,411.75.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion and
asked John Wright, Print Shop Manager, to speak to this
item.
JOHN WRIGHT, Print Shop Manager, LAA, stated he is speaking
to the recent acquisition of the Canon copier the Council
authorized in June. It was delivered and installed at the
beginning of the month. Just prior to the delivery of the
machine, the sales representative noticed that the machine
as ordered did not include a scanning device, where in the
past those have always come standard. Because of this
oversight, the sales representative reduced the price by
$700, from $3600 to $2900. The Print Shop depends on the
document scanner, especially during the legislative
session.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE clarified that this is for the scanner
that was approved two meetings ago because the printer we
had aged completely out and printed its lifetime number of
documents.
MR. WRIGHT confirmed that this was the case.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE recalled that this particular printer was
the less expensive of the bids received and was curious if
this would still be less expensive with the addition of the
scanner.
MR. WRIGHT responded that this is still less expensive, and
the other was a Xerox model which was priced at
approximately $160,000 and with the additional scanner puts
this at just about $93,000.
There was no further discussion. Chair Gray-Jackson asked
for a roll call vote.
11:19:54 AM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson,
Stevens, Gray-Jackson Representatives Saddler, Tilton,
McCabe
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
V. EXECUTIVE SESSION
a. Security Update
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON said that Council would go into
Executive Session to receive a security update and security
staff salary review.
11:20:39 AM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved and asked unanimous consent that
the Legislative Council go into Executive Session under
Uniform Rule 22(B)(4), discussion of a matter the public
knowledge of which would adversely affect the security of
the state or nation, or adversely affect the security of a
governmental unit or agency and 22(B)(3), discussion of a
matter that may, by law, be required to be confidential.
The following individuals may remain in the room or online
during Executive Session: Jessica Geary, Sante Lesh, Rayme
Vinson, JC Kestel, Emily Nauman, Megan Wallace; Security
Subcommittee members Matt Simpson and Michaela Bradner; any
legislators not on Legislative Council, and any staff of
Legislative Council or Security Subcommittee members.
11:21:27 AM
A roll call vote was taken.
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Hoffman, Kiehl, Olson,
Stevens, Gray-Jackson Representatives Saddler, Tilton,
McCabe.
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
11:22:01 AM
Council went into Executive Session
12:44:45 PM
Council came out of Executive Session.
A roll call vote was taken to establish a quorum.
Present at the call were Senators Bishop, Claman, Kiehl,
Olson, Stevens, Gray-Jackson; Representatives Rauscher,
Saddler, Tilton, McCabe.
Ten members present.
b. Security Staff Salary Review
12:45:34 PM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council approve
the creation of a flex position Uniformed Armed Security
Officer 1 through 3 and further moved that Legislative
Council approve a permanent transfer of $155,000 to
Legislative Security Services as outlined in the memo and
effective October 1, 2024.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion.
Recognizing the work of the Security Subcommittee on the
topic, inviting Rayme Vinson, Chief of Security, LAA, and
Jessica Geary, Executive Director, LAA, to provide an
overview and speak the topic.
JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, LAA, said this issue was
brought before the Security Subcommittee to address the
recruitment and retention challenges of the Security
section. Their pay was not comparable to pay of other law
enforcement agencies and similar work, for which many of
Mr. Vinson's guards were leaving the Security section, that
had a higher level of pay. This motion would allow for the
creation of a flex position which created some movement
within the range. The current Armed Security Officer starts
at a range 16, this allows them to go up to a range 19
depending on prior training and certification.
Ms. Geary deferred further statements to Rayme Vinson,
Chief of Security, LAA.
RAYME VINSON, Chief of Security, LAA, stated that this
motion would bring the Security section of the LAA on par
with other employees in the Juneau area and make the
section more competitive in bringing in competent qualified
people. It also allows other applicants without prior law
enforcement experience to be able to learn, gain
experience, and continue in their career.
MS. GEARY stated the transfer would come from the
Legislative Council Chair budget, the Senate Operating
budget, and the House Operating budget, with a total of
$155,000 needed to increase these wages. This would be a
permanent transfer from those allocations into the Security
Services allocation.
SENATOR KIEHL commented his appreciation for the staff and
the members of the subcommittee in bringing this issue
forward. Further stating his support of this motion,
emphasizing the importance of having effective security
through placing a value on the pay, benefits, and training
opportunities for prospective applicants.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER, asked for clarification on if this
was going to establish an ongoing expense every year.
Understanding this first appropriation is going to be
coming from some lapsed money, what would the future
funding source will be and is this going to require an
increase in the total agency budget?
MS. GEARY stated that by identifying allocations with
highest estimated lapse, any kind of increase to the
legislature's budget can be avoided. Understanding that in
the future, it's hard to know how sustainable that is but
for now and the foreseeable future there isn't a need to
increase the legislatures overall budget to accomplish
this.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER followed up stating that he foresees
the issue of a long-term funding source for this to be
brought back before Legislative Council in the future.
Noting that he supports this measure, but that there may be
more work to come back to.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON commented that Ms. Geary and the
committee staff proposed the funding sources with careful
consideration after analyzing a 5-year average from the
different divisions. She thanked Ms. Geary and staff for
the creativity and intention in helping inform this motion
as it takes into consideration what will be needed now as
well as for the future.
There was no further discussion. Chair Gray-Jackson asked
for a roll call vote.
12:50:08 PM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Kiehl, Olson, Stevens, Gray-
Jackson; Representatives Rauscher, Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0
VI. COMMITTEE BUSINESS
a. Assembly Building Apartments Policy
12:50:53 PM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council adopt the
Assembly Building Apartments Policy as amended.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion,
inviting Jessica Geary to speak to the topic.
JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, LAA, stated that at the
last Legislative Council meeting she gave a brief update on
the first session of the Assembly Building Apartments
(ABA), including some positive feedback and some policy
changes that were being recommended in response to things
that came up this past session. Ms. Geary referred members
to a document titled Assembly Building Apartments Policy
Summary of Changes found in their packet, noting there
should be both a copy of the marked-up, red lined version
showing the changes, as well as a clean version of the
proposed updated policy.
MS. GEARY stated that the first change is simple: initially
in drafting the policy, it was unclear how many Americans
with Disability Act (ADA) compliant units there would be,
and this change confirms there are two (2) ADA units.
The next change pertains to the discovery that white linens
may not be reusable session after session. The proposed
change allows for tenants to choose previously used linens,
to bring their own linens, or to purchase a new set of
linens, a process comparable to many college dorms where a
nominal fee is paid for provided linens. The current
proposal is set at $100, though the fee could be any amount
to help offset the cost to replenish. Ms. Geary noted that
linens" are defined by anything that goes on or covers a
bed, pillows, bathmats, and towels.
Another change adds language to clarify that furnishings
cannot be removed or replaced without approval from the
property manager in consultation with the LAA. It was
discovered at the end of session that some tenants brought
in furniture of their own and removed some provided
furniture. Provided furniture is state property, which is
tagged and in the LAA inventory system. This change ensures
the LAA and property management can track state inventory
while allowing flexibility for tenants' furniture
preferences.
Ms. Geary said the next change is to clarify that a tenant
must be an employee of the legislature to be able to rent
at the ABA.
Ms. Geary outlined two changes in Section E. - Application,
Prioritization, and Apartment Assignment. The first change
adjusts the application window by two weeks and should
allow more time for applicants to know whether they get an
ABA unit, giving them time to seek another accommodation if
necessary. The second change narrows the window for an
applicant who is offered a unit to respond to property
management, reducing it from 48 hours to 24 hours to accept
or decline an offered unit.
The next item clarifies the prorating of rental rates
language to allow for tenants to move in any time in
January and occupy the unit through the end of May if there
is no immediate special session.
Under interim rental and rates section, the proposed change
removes the second session language to allow for legislator
tenants to remain in place indefinitely which saves time
and money.
Ms. Geary paused for questions or comments on this change
and recognized Senator Claman who said he thinks it's a
very good policy.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON announced that before moving onto
comments, she would like to make an amendment to this
policy and with discussion to follow.
12:55:30 PM
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON moved that the Assembly Building
Apartments Policy as presented be amended to include
language that says, "11 studio apartments will be
designated for legislative staff."
DISCUSSION FOLLOWED between Chair Gray-Jackson, Senators
Olson, Claman, Bishop, Kiehl, Speaker Tilton,
Representative Saddler, Vice Chair McCabe and Director
Geary regarding: number of ABA units and types of units (a
mix of one bedrooms and studios); one purpose of the ABA as
lodging for special sessions primarily for legislators;
lack of affordable housing options for staff and the impact
to staff recruitment/retention; the possibility of the
Juneau Community Foundation purchasing additional housing
to be owned by the legislature and the impact to the
private sector; and concern that by setting aside ABA units
for staff, it implied the legislature was responsible for
providing staff housing.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON restated her motion to amend at
Representative Saddler's request, and then asked for a roll
call vote.
1:09:13 PM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Olson, Stevens, Gray-Jackson
NAYS: Senators Kiehl, Claman; Representatives Rauscher,
Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
The motion failed 4-6.
1:10:55 PM
MS. GEARY continued through the remaining policy changes.
She detailed that the next set of changes adds key fobs to
the list of accountable property, clarifies that parking
spots are small and won't fit all vehicles, and changes the
language to "may" for time zone limits and parking fines to
allow for flexibility.
Ms. Geary said the next change added stronger language
about vaping in the units. She noted the policy already
forbids smoking and vaping but there was an apartment that
clearly had vaping residue and required a lot of extra
cleaning; this change clarifies that a tenant may be
charged for additional cleaning related to vaping.
SENATOR KIEHL asked if would it make sense to say here "any
evidence of vaping or smoking residue" since that also
might require expensive additional cleaning.
MS. GEARY, in response to a question by Senator Claman,
clarified that neither smoking nor vaping is currently
allowable; but because vaping is somewhat odorless it's
easier to sneak it whereas if somebody were smoking in
their apartment, they would set off a fire alarm and a
whole host of other things. Vaping leaves a very sticky
residue all over every surface so that was why smoking
wasn't included in the updated language. She concluded a
member could provide an amendment adding smoking if that
was desired.
SENATOR KIEHL responded that he has no expertise in
sneaking cigarettes into apartment buildings, but said he
believes it might help to include smoking in case there is
a need to recover costs from somebody who doesn't follow
the rules.
MS. GEARY asked for a brief at ease.
1:13:19 PM
Council took a brief at-ease.
1:13:56 PM
Council returned from a brief at-ease.
1:14:01 PM
SENATOR KIEHL moved that Legislative Council amend the
Assembly Building Apartments policy as presented to include
on page 4 of the policy the words "or smoking" so the
amended sentence would read: "any evidence of vaping or
smoking residue."
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion.
Seeing no discussion or questions, she asked for a roll
call vote.
SENATOR KIEHL, at the request of Senator Bishop, restated
the motion.
A roll call vote was taken on Senator Kiehl's amendment.
1:14:49 PM
YEAS: Senators Claman, Kiehl, Olson, Stevens, Gray-Jackson;
Representatives Rauscher, Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
NAYS: Senator Bishop
The motion passed 9-1.
1:15:40 PM
MS. GEARY continued, noting there were still a couple more
items to mention. She said while the lease already states
no open flames, she recommended adding the following
language to the policy: "for your safety and for those in
adjacent apartments no candles or open flames are
permitted; this change mirrors the lease language as
previously mentioned.
She said the next items are to add "recycling" to the list
of provided receptacles and to clarify that additional
required cleaning costs may be deducted from security
deposits. Finally, the very last item is language to notify
tenants that Legislative Security will be adding cameras in
the ABA parking garage.
MS. GEARY, in response to a question by Senator Bishop
about the dollar amount or scale of the additional cleaning
costs, said that a cleaning service is hired to ensure the
unit is suitable for the next tenant with the intent to
recoup that cost from the previous tenant. The dollar
amount, or scale, depends on who's available to do the
work. Additionally, she noted that a schedule of fees and
fines is being developed with the property manager so
tenants will know, as part of their lease agreement, of the
potential charges for which they would be responsible based
on the condition of the apartment at the end of the lease
term; that schedule was missing this last session. In
response to a follow-up from Senator Bishop, she confirmed
that it would be a fee for service.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON, there being no further discussion,
removed her objection and asked for a roll call vote.
1:18:02 PM
YEAS: Senators Bishop, Claman, Kiehl, Olson, Stevens, Gray-
Jackson; Representatives Rauscher, Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
NAYS: None
The motion passed 10-0.
b. Capitol Visitor Policy
1:18:37 PM
VICE CHAIR MCCABE moved that Legislative Council adopt the
Capitol Visitor Policy as presented.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for purposes of discussion and
invited Jessica Geary and Emily Nauman, Director,
Legislative Legal Services, to speak to the topic.
JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, LAA, stated that the
need for this policy was due to an incident that occurred
this past session with some protestors who carried signs
into the Capitol, held them up, and were somewhat
disruptive during one of the committee hearings; and some
of the behaviors caused concerns for Legislative Security
Services, committee chairs, and the sergeant-t-arms.
Approval of this policy would allow for there to be some
guidelines on what types of signs members of the public can
bring into the Capitol.
Ms. Geary said that the policy limits the size of any sign
to no larger than 11x17 and which could not be affixed to a
pole; signs would have to be a handheld. This policy
doesn't contemplate what the sign could say, simply the
size of the sign and the method of carrying the sign. It
also authorizes Legislative Security to enforce a
prohibition on signs blocking the view of security cameras.
Another item this policy seeks to address are noise
complaints about members of the public coming through the
Capitol with a megaphone, being very loud and disruptive;
this policy would prohibit any noise in the Capitol that
disrupts legislative business. Ms. Geary concluded her
summary of the proposed policy, stating she was available
for questions and that Emily Nauman was also available for
questions pertaining to any legal ramifications.
DISCUSSION FOLLOWED regarding the sign size limit of 11x17.
MS. GEARY, in response to a question by Senator Kiehl about
what constitutes or defines a sign, asked for a brief at-
ease to ensure she had a copy of the policy.
1:22:32 PM
Council took a brief at-ease.
1:22:47 PM
Council returned from brief at-ease.
1:22:50 PM
MS. GEARY cited the relevant section of the policy, which
states that visitors may …hand-carry a paper-based poster
board or placard type sign up to 11x17 inches[S]ignsmust
be handheld: no handles, sticks, supports, poles, posts, or
other item may be used to hold up signs.
SENATOR KIEHL responded he was looking specifically at
committee room restrictions, most of which are excellent
and which state there cannot be signs or banners of any
kind. He said he trusted that [in committee rooms] one
could wear a button or a t-shirt, but wondered if one could
paint something on the back of a jacket which could be
taken off and held up; he didn't think that would be
considered a sign. Senator Kiehl wanted to know the
boundaries of this policy; that he thinks a policy like
this is a good direction, but he needs to know what it
means.
MS. GEARY responded that Senator Kiehl's question may be
more within Ms. Nauman's area as Legislative Legal
organized the policy flow. She went on to say it was her
understanding the Signs section of the policy carried up
into the Committee Room Restrictions section, so she didn't
think there was a prohibition on holding up a jacket that
has been made into a sign. If such an example did come up
and Legislative Council wanted to address another change in
policy, such language could be added, but it was not
contemplated as the policy is currently written.
MS. GEARY, in response to a question by Representative
Rauscher, said that any preference to include in the policy
what types of language might be allowed was really a
question of how much the First Amendment should be
challenged; this policy, as presented, does not contemplate
that. She noted that in early drafts of this policy there
was a section prohibiting vulgar language on signs and that
language was taken out; she said Ms. Nauman could speak
more to this point.
EMILY NAUMAN, Legislative Legal Services Director, LAA,
said that as Executive Director Geary stated, Legal
Services reviewed the Visitor Policy for consistency with
the First Amendment and, to be clear, there was generally
no issue with the policy now, though there remains an issue
with enforcement of the policy. She said that in terms of
the First Amendment, the nut of the issue is that the
government can prohibit conduct, but it has to be on a
content neutral basis. For example, Legal Services removed
the prohibition on vulgar language because it can be
difficult to enforce that in a content neutral way. Another
example of an area that will be difficult to enforce
relates to the question of what is a sign?. Ms. Nauman
said she doubts Security was going to call Legal Services
every time there was an issue to ask if a given situation
was contemplated in the policy. She believed the policy was
clearly written which should allow for appropriate
application of enforcement. She continued that she hoped
Security, in enforcing this policy, considers what is
disruptive as that was the line the courts have drawn in
terms of the restrictions on conduct. She returned to the
example of holding up a t-shirt or jacket to say that she
hoped Security would consider whether the conduct was
disruptive as far as answering the question of whether it
counted as a sign in the policy's intent.
SENATOR CLAMAN commented on the question posed earlier by
Senator Kiehl regarding sign dimensions that it was his
understanding from Security Subcommittee discussions that
the goal of specifying the dimensions was to allow signs
but ensure they were not so large that they were a visual
obstruction and safety concern.
SENATOR BISHOP, regarding Senator Kiehl's example of
holding up a jacket, asked Ms. Nauman about legal standing
if, in a similar situation, the chair of a committee called
an at-ease or took a recess and called Security.
MS. NAUMAN responded that she would hope that the chair and
Security would aim to interpret this policy toward
disruptive behavior as that would be the most conservative
approach. She said certainly what disrupts a committee is
determined primarily by the chair and the committee members
so they can proceed in their business. She said as we're
all aware through other discussions in this committee that
there is a balance between people being able to speak to
their government in a way that's meaningful to them and be
heard versus impeding the work of the legislature.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said he had general observations
about this issue and commented that the First Amendment
right to expression is not an absolute right, the classic
example is that one cannot yell "fire" in a crowded
theater; there has to be a public safety consideration. He
said he agreed with Senator Claman's understanding and
supports limiting signs in legislative hallways to avoid
obstruction. He said people will push the limits of the
policy by lining several 11x17 signs together to create 2-
foot by 3-foot signs and enforcement will have to rely on
discretion. He said there are many examples and anecdotes
of people interfering with legislative business with
noisemakers, shouting and chanting, and waving signs; he
continued that we have an obligation to conduct the
people's business without that kind of undue obstruction.
He said this is a very fraught issue. To the question of
whether we should try and police the language of the signs
no, we cannot do that. There are many settled First
Amendment cases that say people can put whatever vulgar,
profane, insulting, demeaning, provocative thing they want
and our job as legislators is to maintain decorum and
continue with our business regardless of what people might
say on their signs. He expressed concern about when
difficult actors push these limits and asked what
enforcement options are available; he wondered if Security
would be present to determine what is disruptive. He said
it will be difficult and anticipates that the policy may
need to be refined in the future but does applaud the
desire to maintain, through policy, some decorum for
legislative business.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE remarked that he had some concerns about
the policy taking away or limiting the ability of committee
chairs to run their committees in accordance with what they
see fit. He expressed that he would feel more comfortable
if there was explicit language stating that nothing in the
policy is intended to prevent committee chairs from
managing their committees in their committee rooms the way
they see fit.
MS. GEARY responded that there is language in the third
paragraph of this draft policy stating, "nothing in this
policy limits the authority of a presiding officer or chair
of a committee to maintain order in a chamber or gallery
during a floor session or a committee meeting." This does
allow some discretion of the presiding officers and the
committee chair.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE followed up to say he was hesitant that
prohibiting signs in a committee room or asking a
legislator not to wear a large button, as an example,
qualifies as maintaining order. That seems more about noise
and disruptions. In his perspective, it feels like this is
limiting a committee chair's ability to run their committee
as they see fit.
MS. NAUMAN, in response to the Chair's inquiry, said she
did not have any additional thoughts or comments to Vice
Chair McCabe's follow-up.
SENATOR BISHOP referred members to the third paragraph and
the foot note of the policy, which is marked by an asterisk
and cites Uniform Rule 3(c), stating that language should
suffice regarding Vice Chair McCabe's concerns and then
reading the footnote, which states "the chambers are
subject to the rules set forth by the presiding officer and
sergeant of arms He looked to Ms. Nauman for
confirmation.
MS. NAUMAN responded that she agreed with Senator Bishop's
comment and interpretation.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER stated his support that Legislative
Council go on record to say it was not the intent with this
policy to limit a committee chair's authority to maintain
decorum.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE said Uniform Rule 3(c) is pretty specific
to the chambers, presiding officers, and sergeant-at-arms,
which aren't in committee rooms. He said he expected that
the committee chair would be able to limit what folks are
wearing or doing. He said he agreed with Representative
Saddler that there be disclaimer added to let committee
chairs know they can run their committees the way they want
to. He then requested a brief at-ease.
1:35:35 PM
Council took a brief at-ease.
1:40:50 PM
Council returned from brief at-ease.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON, addressing those on teleconference,
said that a few committee members who were attending in
person had to leave and asked that those on teleconference
remain on the line if possible in order to maintain a
quorum for at least the next vote.
SENATOR KIEHL began by expressing appreciation for
Representative McCabe's concerns. He said the Visitor
Policy can give non-partisan staff some help in managing
disruptive behavior. He continued that he agreed with what
Representative McCabe was saying about that third paragraph
of the policy; this was not about the conduct of members in
a committee meeting or the chair's ability to manage a
committee meeting according to rules we've long had. He
said he doesn't think this policy particularly impacts
that. He said he appreciated Representative McCabe's
commentary and thinks that the chair's ability to work with
members and run the committee remains intact with this
policy.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON called a brief at-ease.
1:42:29 PM
Council took a brief at-ease.
1:43:08 PM
Council returned from brief at-ease.
1:43:09 PM
SENATOR CLAMAN moved that the Capitol Visitor Policy be
amended in the third paragraph to add the words "manage or"
so that the sentence would read "Nothing in this policy
limits the authority of a presiding officer or a chair of a
committee to manage or maintain order in a chamber or
gallery during a floor session or a committee meeting."
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON objected for the purpose of discussion.
Seeing none, Chair Gray-Jackson asked for a vote on the
amendment.
1:43:37 PM
YEAS: Senators Claman, Kiehl, Olson, Gray-Jackson;
Representatives Rauscher, Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
NAYS: Senator Stevens
The motion passed 8-1.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON noted that the committee was now back to
the main motion on the Capitol Visitor Policy. There being
no further discussion, Chair Gray-Jackson asked for a roll
call vote.
1:44:23 PM
YEAS: Senators Claman, Kiehl, Olson, Stevens, Gray-Jackson;
Representatives Rauscher, Saddler, Tilton, McCabe
NAYS: none
The motion passed 9-0.
c. Social Media Policy
1:44:59 PM
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON moved to table this item until next
Legislative Council meeting on December 12, 2024.
There was no objection, and the item was tabled to the
December 12 meeting.
d. Continuity of Operations / Continuity of Government
Plan
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON noted for members that this item was
discussion only and that no action would be taken today.
JESSICA GEARY, Executive Director, LAA, provided an update
on the progress of the Continuity of Government plan for
the legislature, which was first discussed at the last
Legislative Council meeting. She said that on September 11
she met with the Alaska Department of Military & Veterans
Affairs Division of Homeland Security & Emergency
Management. This division is responsible for assisting with
State of Alaska's Continuity of Government plan and agreed
to provide templates to assist with the effort to craft a
similar plan for the legislature. While there is still work
to be done, she said feels confident now that we have this
resource. She said further decisions will be brought back
to the committee and that she simply wanted to provide an
update on this task.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON thanked Ms. Geary and, seeing there were
no questions from members, moved to the next agenda item.
e. Allowance Account Policy
1:46:43 PM
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON said this item was also for discussion
only. She noted that LAA Finance Manager Mindy Kissner
would review the changes that were made to the Allowance
Account Policy in 2016 and then Representative Rauscher,
who requested this topic be placed on the agenda, would
share his thoughts.
MINDY KISSNER, Finance Manager, LAA, summarized that in
2016, as a budget saving measure, the House made the
decision to reduce the House allowance account from $16,000
to $12,000. At the time, the Senate did not choose to make
a reduction, and their allowance accounts remained at
$20,000.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON thanked Ms. Kissner and, there being no
questions, turned the floor over to Representative
Rauscher.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER began by saying that he sees some
disparity between rural and urban legislators. He explained
that Anchorage legislators can easily travel their district
in an hour or so; however, rural legislators may need to
travel by plane, boat, or long drives, which can take days.
While some office expenses, like supplies and mailings, are
common across districts, rural legislators face unique
costs due to the size and complexity of their districts,
including attending meetings in remote areas and multiple
cities or ports.
He said he has been considering this issue for the last
year and, while the timing is debatable, he said he
believes now might be right to address this issue.
Referring to a handout he provided to members before
speaking, he said he has been contemplating an idea to
allocate 75% of the office allowance equally among all
districts for shared needs, while the remaining 25% would
be distributed proportionally based on district size and
additional travel demands. This would better create
equitable support to rural legislators, who often spend
personal funds to reach constituents and attend key
meetings, unlike their urban counterparts with easier
access. Concluding that this idea isn't for immediate
action but rather a starting point for discussion to ensure
fairer support for all legislators.
1:54:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER expressed gratitude to
Representative Rauscher for bringing this issue forward and
recognized the thought and effort put into addressing the
challenges of representing large districts in our state. He
remarked that it's a creative idea that seems fair at first
glance.
SENATE PRESIDENT STEVENS commented that it seemed best for
the Senate to stay out of this discussion as the House
voluntarily took that budget cut. He continued that it
would, however, be good to know how those monies are used.
He stated that he often didn't use all of his account and
wondered if LAA could share how much of those funds are
used by other members of the legislature.
MS. KISSNER stated that the funds are often used for
mailings, constituent travel, and other routine items. She
said that often the funds arent fully used up each year
and that the accounting section would be happy to compile
any information that he or the committee is interested in.
SENATOR CLAMAN commented on the amount of the accounts and
stated that they haven't been adjusted recently for
inflation and it might be worth considering whether the
House should return to the $16,000 level, as that could
address some of the concerns that were highlighted.
SENATE PRESIDENT STEVENS commented that his only concern is
whether most House legislators are using the full $12,000
allowance and would be interested to see how close each
district comes to fully utilizing that amount.
SPEAKER TILTON commented that she understood the unused
funds roll back into the respective House or Senate funds,
which may contribute to balances used for things like
increased security funding. She shared that she does not
know who uses their full allowance but understands that
redistricting has created much larger districts, leading to
higher costs for those legislators. She thanked
Representative Rauscher for bringing this forward and said
that it's well thought out.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON noted for those on teleconference that
copies of what Representative Rauscher passed out here will
be sent to them and will also be posted to BASIS.
VICE CHAIR MCCABE commented that in addition to
responsibilities within the state, many committee chairs
and legislators have out-of-state responsibilities, such as
with PNWER (Pacific Northwest Economic Region), NCSL
(National Council of State Legislatures), or CSG (Council
of State Governments). Airline ticket prices have increased
in the last six months - flights that used to cost $500-600
to the Lower 48 now often exceed $1,000. These expenses
typically come out of office allowance accounts, so it's
something the committee should consider reviewing as well.
SENATOR KIEHL stated that he appreciates the effort that
was put into this discussion item and asked Representative
Rauscher if he knew of a way to account for "cost of
access". Offering that within his Senate district, travel
often requires ferries or small planes, along with
guaranteed overnight staysunlike districts where one can
drive to communities and return home the same day. He
wondered if this particular issue could be addressed in the
proposal.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER responded that he appreciates the
comments and questions raised and continued that the goal
was to figure out how to accommodate and understand these
needs. He shared that some legislators may not use their
full allowance, not because they don't need it, but because
limited funds prevent them from taking certain trips, like
out-of-state opportunities to develop as legislators. He
continued that districts like Representative Cronk's are
incredibly large, making it unrealistic to expect those
legislators to operate on the same budget as smaller, more
accessible districts. He felt that addressing all their
constituents, councils, and school districts on the same
funding as others with more accessible districts is a
significant challenge.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER said that regarding district size
factor, some rural districts are on the road system with
easier access, while others, like Districts 39 and 40, have
few or no roads, making access significantly more
expensive. He felt that a policy like this should remain
somewhat general to avoid overly prescribed reimbursements,
yet he felt the current system feels too imprecise. He
applauded Representative Rauscher for his effort to visit
constituents, often using personal funds, as he
acknowledged many legislators do. He agreed that
accommodating such expenses seems reasonable, and he
restated appreciation for this proposal being brought
forward for consideration.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON added her gratitude to Representative
Rauscher for bringing this forward as an addition to the
agenda for the day as it has been an exceptional learning
opportunity provoking the desire to have more discussion on
this topic in the future to better figure out the next
steps in addressing this issue.
SPEAKER TILTON suggested conducting an analysis of office
accounts, not by specific individuals, but generally to see
how many legislators are using the full amount and whether
the reduced House allowance is limiting some, especially in
large districts like those of Representative Rauscher or
Representative Cronk. Commenting that as a fiscal
conservative and Speaker of the House, she carefully
reviews additional travel fund requests to ensure effective
use of legislative funds. Analyzing how much travel is
being supplemented from the presiding officer's account
could also provide insight. She appreciated Representative
Rauscher bringing this forward and understood the concerns
raised.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON thanked Speaker Tilton for her comments
and called on Representative Saddler.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER provided an additional comment that
it might be helpful to have data on the square footage of
each district from the Division of Elections or Community
and Regional Affairs, which could provide insight into how
adjustments in formula programs affect different districts.
He encouraged gathering this information for reference as
the committee continues this discussion.
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON stated that she would like to see a
five-year analysis, like the one done for funding security
salaries, showing how much money from office accounts has
lapsed in both the Senate and the House. With 20 senators
and $20,000 each annually, she wondered how much has gone
unused over five years and thought the same analysis should
be done for the House.
SENATE PRESIDENT STEVENS commented that this is a complex
issue that requires careful consideration. That a Senate
district accounts for two House districts, and differences
need to be accounted for. He shared he was not sure how the
original $16,000 and $20,000 figures were determined, but
for larger districts like his, where flying is required,
they need to find a fair approach that considers the
differences between House and Senate districts.
MS. GEARY responded stating that the LAA could compile this
information in whatever way the members would prefer to see
it. They could work with the Legislative Council Chair's
office to develop some materials that can be shared for
consideration.
VII. ADJOURNMENT
CHAIR GRAY-JACKSON asked if any members of the committee
had any final comments and advised that the next
Legislative Council meeting will be December 12, 2024. She
continued that members should be aware that the Legislative
Council could have one final meeting in 2025 on the last
day of the interim if there is any outstanding business to
complete before the start of the next legislative session.
The Chair thanked members, LAA staff, LIO staff, and her
staff for their contributions.
2:09:42 PM
With no further comments, the meeting adjourned at 2:09pm.