02/01/2006 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB242 | |
| HB274 | |
| HB331 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 274 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| += | HB 242 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 331 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
February 1, 2006
3:23 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Tom Anderson, Chair
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative David Guttenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 242
"An Act relating to the deposit of certain penalties collected
under the unemployment insurance program; requiring an employing
unit with a change in ownership, management, or control to
notify the Department of Labor and Workforce Development of the
ownership change; regarding the unemployment contribution rate
of an employing unit; and defining 'business' for purposes of
statutes setting unemployment contribution rates; establishing
the crime of obtaining an unemployment rate by deception; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 242(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 274
"An Act relating to the practice of accounting; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED CSSSHB 274(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 331
"An Act relating to access by persons under 21 years of age to
premises licensed to sell alcoholic beverages as clubs."
- MOVED CSHB 331(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 242
SHORT TITLE: UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND & TAXES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) CRAWFORD
04/01/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/01/05 (H) L&C, JUD, FIN
01/25/06 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
01/25/06 (H) Heard & Held
01/25/06 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
BILL: HB 274
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) HAWKER
04/18/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/18/05 (H) L&C, FIN
01/11/06 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED
01/11/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/11/06 (H) L&C, FIN
01/25/06 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
01/25/06 (H) Heard & Held
01/25/06 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
BILL: HB 331
SHORT TITLE: UNDERAGE MILITARY ON LICENSED PREMISES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) ELKINS
01/09/06 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/05
01/09/06 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/09/06 (H) L&C, FIN
WITNESS REGISTER
PAT SHIER, Acting Deputy Director
Division of Employment Security
Department of Labor & Workforce Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of Amendment 1 to HB
242.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE HAWKER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke as the sponsor of SSHB 274.
DON BREMNER, Member
Board of Director
Yak-Tat Kwaan, Inc. (YKI)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SSHB 274 with
Amendment 1.
JEANNETTE JAMES, Member
Alaska Society of Independent Accountants (ASIA)
North Pole, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed concerns with SSHB 274.
MICHAEL CURNOW, Independent Accountant
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of SSHB 274, except
with regard to the language referencing the attest functions.
BERNADETTE KOPPY, Vice President
Alaska Society of Independent Accountants (ASIA)
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that ASIA supports Amendments 1
and 2 to SSHB 274.
ELAINE WILLIAMSON, Appointee
Alaska Board of Public Accountancy
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated her personal support for SSHB 274.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM ELKINS
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke as the sponsor of HB 331.
JIM VAN HORN, Staff
to Representative Jim Elkins
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 331, on behalf of the sponsor,
Representative Elkins.
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board ("ABC Board")
Department of Public Safety
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 331.
DEAN HILL
American Legion
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing of HB 331, discussed
identification checks at military clubs.
RICHARD SMITH, Post Commander
American Legion
Seward, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Indicated that he favored [HB 331].
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR TOM ANDERSON called the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting to order at. Representatives Anderson, Kott,
Guttenberg, Crawford, Rokeberg, and Lynn were present at the
call to order 3:23:25 PM. Representative LeDoux arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
HB 242-UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND & TAXES
3:23:25 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 242, "An Act relating to the deposit of
certain penalties collected under the unemployment insurance
program; requiring an employing unit with a change in ownership,
management, or control to notify the Department of Labor and
Workforce Development of the ownership change; regarding the
unemployment contribution rate of an employing unit; and
defining 'business' for purposes of statutes setting
unemployment contribution rates; establishing the crime of
obtaining an unemployment rate by deception; and providing for
an effective date."
CHAIR ANDERSON moved that the committee adopt CSHB 242 Version
24-LS0821\Y, Wayne, 1/27/06 as the working document. There
being no objection, Version Y was before the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD explained that the CS would change page
2, lines 1-3, further defining that a change in ownership,
management or control means that it is the responsible party who
pays the unemployment insurance.
PAT SHIER, Acting Deputy Director, Division of Employment
Security, Department of Labor & Workforce Development (DLWD),
stated that [Version Y] benefits the public by better defining
who is being established as the responsible party. He added
that this language has been used in other sections of statute,
and has been "effective for decades."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked for confirmation that the only
position changes that need to be reported to the department are
those in management positions with check signing and payment
confirmation responsibilities.
MR. SHIER confirmed that this is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there had been any discussion with
the Department of Law regarding a retroactive effective date of
January 2006.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he had not had a chance to
discuss this with the department.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that [Sections 1, 2, and 4]
have an effective date of July 1, 2006, while [Sections 5 and 6]
have an immediate effective date.
CHAIR ANDERSON opined that the department feels this is
necessary.
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG moved to report CSHB 242, Version 24-
LS0821\Y, Wayne, 1/27/06 out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being
no objection, CSHB 242(L&C) was reported out of the House Labor
& Commerce Standing Committee.
HB 274-PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS
3:31:08 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the next order of business would
be SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 274, "An Act relating
to the practice of accounting; and providing for an effective
date."
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE HAWKER, Alaska State Legislature, speaking
as the sponsor of SSHB 274, informed the committee that after
reviewing the issues discussed at the prior hearing, he
determined that an amendment was in order. He explained that
the amendment would address the "prepare" and "compile" issue
and leaves intact all existing statutory authority, while
providing some safe harbor language in which an independent
accountant can seek refuge.
3:32:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved that the committee adopt Amendment
1, which read [original punctuation provided]:
Page 27, lines 9 - 20:
Delete "the following disclaimer language when
used by nonlicensees in connection with financial
statements:
(A) "I (we) have prepared the accompanying
(financial statements) of (name of entity) as of (time
period) for the (period) then ended. This presentation
is limited to preparing, in the form of financial
statements, information that is the representation of
management (owners)."; or
(B) "I (we) have not audited or reviewed the
accompanying financial statements and, accordingly, do
not express an opinion or any other form of assurance
on them." [COMPILATION OF FINANCIAL STATEMENT LANGUAGE
THAT DOES NOT EXPRESS OR IMPLY ASSURANCE OR SPECIAL
KNOWLEDGE OR COMPETENCE.] "
Insert
"(A) a compilation of financial statement
language that does not express or imply assurance or
special knowledge or competence; or
"(B) the following disclaimer language when used
by nonlicensees in connection with financial
statements:
(i) "I (we) have prepared the accompanying
(financial statements) of (name of entity) as of (time
period) for the (period) then ended. This presentation
is limited to preparing, in the form of financial
statements, information that is the representation of
management (owners)."; or
(ii) "I (we) have not audited or reviewed the
accompanying financial statements and, accordingly, do
not express an opinion or any other form of assurance
on them." [.]"
3:33:30 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON, upon determining there were no objections,
announced that Amendment 1 was adopted.
3:33:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved that the committee adopt Amendment 2,
as follows:
Page 3, line 24, following "regulations":
Insert "per the procedures under negotiated
regulation making"
CHAIR ANDERSON objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN explained that although the Board of Public
Accountancy doesn't license independent accountants, the
decisions the board makes does have a significant impact on the
profession. Representative Lynn expressed his desire to
maintain the [current] balance between Certified Public
Accountants (CPAs) and independent accountants.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER stated that Amendment 2 adds the
requirement of additional supplemental regulatory procedures in
the regulatory authority for the Board of Public Accountancy to
address the attest function. Since the regulations are
addressing the attest function, there is no affect on the
independent accountants. He highlighted that SSHB 274 has an
immediate effective date in regard to the authority to prepared
the regulations, but a delayed effective date for the
legislation. Therefore, there's an opportunity for the
regulatory process to go forward. The negotiated regulation
making is really a supplemental procedure, and in this
particular situation something is being regulated that has
nothing to do with independent accountants. Representative
Hawker opined that it's merely an additional regulatory burden,
an additional cost, an additional time, and additional
inefficiency in governing.
CHAIR ANDERSON referred to a letter from Max Mertz, Chairperson,
Alaska Board of Public Accountancy, dated January 26, 2006,
which related the Alaska Board of Public Accountancy's support
of SSHB 274.
3:38:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX inquired as to what the language "per the
procedures under negotiated regulation making" means.
3:39:12 PM
DON BREMNER, Member, Board of Director, Yak-Tat Kwaan, Inc.
(YKI), said that SSHB 274 has been a long time coming. The
legislation draws a clear line between qualified and unqualified
accountants and accounting services. Furthermore, the
legislation addresses accountability and liability. Mr. Bremner
recalled his past experience as an officer of Native
corporations and the scams and schemes that have cost
corporations large sums of money. He highlighted a Ponzi scheme
that cost one Native corporation over $7 million. Therefore, at
least this legislation raises the standards such that those
presenting themselves as accountants or CPAs are who they say
they are. Mr. Bremner concluded by relating his hope that the
committee forwards this legislation.
CHAIR ANDERSON turned attention to Amendment 2, which attempts
to discern the difference between CPAs and non-CPAs.
MR. BREMNER, in further response to Chair Anderson, specified
that he supports SSHB 274 with Amendment 1.
3:42:27 PM
JEANNETTE JAMES, Member, Alaska Society of Independent
Accountants (ASIA), referred to the language on page 3, lines
25-26, which says: "the board may adopt the criteria
established by a nationally recognized professional organization
for accountants." The aforementioned doesn't specify the
organizations to which it applies, and therefore there is no
knowledge with regard to what it may do in relation to
independent accountants. Ms. James then explained that the
negotiated regulation making is a complicated system that allows
the discussion of issues before the regulations are drafted.
Although she understood, after talking to the sponsor, that SSHB
274 refers strictly to CPAs, she opined that it is important to
place it on the record. Ms. James emphasized that she wants to
be sure that SSHB 274 doesn't impact [independent accountants],
which seems to be partially addressed in Amendment 1. However,
[independent accountants] don't know what the [attest]
regulations [of nationally recognized professional organizations
for accountants] are and what effect they will have.
3:45:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX inquired as to whether, on page 3, after
line 23, inserting the language "the board shall adopt
regulations with respect to certified public accountants" rather
than the language proposed in Amendment 2 would address these
concerns.
MS. JAMES characterized Representative LeDoux's suggestion as
extra language, and said that the aforementioned discussion will
provide some strength with regard to the intent that this
applies only to CPAs.
3:47:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT recalled that the sponsor's opening remarks
clarified that this legislation only regulates CPAs, and
therefore he felt the issues [of the independent accountants]
are covered.
3:47:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG highlighted that SSHB 274 falls under
Title 8 and the Division of Occupational Licensing. He pointed
out that Section 2 gives the [Board of Public Accountancy] the
ability to regulate the profession of accountancy. He said he
wasn't sure that this legislation speaks only to CPAs because
part of the division's procedure is to ensure that those
practicing are qualified and meet the standards. Therefore, he
opined that this legislation does impact those who aren't CPAs
and thus redrafting the legislation such that it excluded
[independent accountants] would be "skating on thin ice."
3:50:30 PM
MS. JAMES, in response to an earlier question regarding the
definition of "negotiated regulation making", explained that
[negotiated regulation making] simply means that the
stakeholders are called together to determine what the language
in the regulation should say. When the aforementioned is
completed, it moves through the regular process of regulation
making. Although it may be a lengthier process, usually there
is no debate that results [after the regulations are in place].
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG interjected that the negotiated rule
making process works very well in the natural resources arena,
particularly when there are a large number of stakeholders.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX questioned why the regulations regarding
attest functions only applying to CPAs wouldn't be stronger if
that was specified in statute rather than merely leaving it to
be ascertained from the testimony today.
3:52:48 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON inquired as to what/who is regulated now. He
also inquired as to how someone would grieve to the state over
mistakes made by an [independent accountant/bookkeeper] versus
mistakes made by a CPA.
3:54:01 PM
MS. JAMES pointed out that there is a court system. She opined
that the public is somewhat protected from those who make
mistakes. She reiterated that she is comfortable with this
conversation on the record that indicates that this
[legislation] speaks only to CPAs and has no effect on
independent accountants.
3:55:39 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON recalled Representative Rokeberg's question as to
whether SSHB 274 with Amendment 1 is sufficient and accurate in
relaying that the legislation doesn't impact those performing
accounting activities who aren't CPAs.
3:56:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that Section 7 only relates
to rule making as it relates to attest functions. "This has
nothing to do with the overall rule-making ability which is in
the catch-all portion of Title 8, which allows any regulatory
rulemaking by any occupational licensing board." Therefore, he
opined that [Section 7] isn't a way to allow the Board of Public
Accountancy to redraw the rules because they already exist.
CHAIR ANDERSON inquired as to whether Representative Rokeberg
feels that Amendment 2 is in opposition to the legislation or
duplicative and not necessary.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG opined that it's not appropriate in this
section and he said he wasn't sure that it was appropriate in a
new section either because it could "break the mold of all the
other occupational licensing."
CHAIR ANDERSON expressed his concern that it might be
precedential.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked if Ms. James would be more comfortable
with Amendment 2 as it's written or with the language as
Representative LeDoux suggested.
MS. JAMES reiterated that she feels comfortable with the intent
[of SSHB 274 unamended] being placed on the record. However,
she noted that there are other [independent accountants] who may
hold different views. Ms. James specified that she would prefer
the language in Section 7 to refer to CPAs rather than merely
"accountants."
3:59:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired as to how Ms. James would define
"persons professing special competence in accountancy."
MS. JAMES answered that one would have to pass a test. In fact,
members of the National Society of Accountants can take an
examination to be certified as an accountant. The
aforementioned is different than a certified public accountant
which is a license from the state and for which there are
different rules. She opined that the current system in Alaska
works for this state, and therefore she expressed concern with
the reference to the nationally recognized professional
organizations because it treats all states the same.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT, referring to Section 2, pointed out that
the purpose is to regulate those who have special competence in
accounting, which he associated with a CPA. He related his
understanding that there are three different layers of work that
a CPA can perform and a public accountant can enter the top two
layers.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked then if anyone can call
himself/herself an accountant in Alaska.
MS. JAMES replied yes.
4:03:11 PM
MICHAEL CURNOW, Independent Accountant, informed the committee
that he is a member of ASIA and a past president of the
organization. He said that Amendment 1 addressed one of his
[concerns]. However, the legislation, even in the face of
today's testimony, impacts him as an independent accountant
because the definition of attest was changed to include
compilations, which he said he does occasionally. Therefore, he
requested the negotiated regulatory process, which he said
provides him with more comfort. Mr. Curnow noted that he likes
the rest of the legislation and hopes that it passes.
4:05:19 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how Mr. Curnow would define "persons
professing special competence in accountancy." He also asked if
Mr. Curnow would place himself in that group.
MR. CURNOW answered that he would not include himself in that
category because that [refers] to a CPA who has received a state
license. Mr. Curnow explained that he holds a federal license
and his work concentrates on taxes.
4:06:40 PM
BERNADETTE KOPPY, Vice President, Alaska Society of Independent
Accountants (ASIA), informed the committee that ASIA supports
Amendments 1 and 2 to SSHB 274. Ms. Koppy opined that this
legislation [as amended] will allow independent accountants to
continue doing business in the manner in which they do now.
4:08:05 PM
ELAINE WILLIAMSON, Appointee, Alaska Board of Public
Accountancy, stated her personal support for SSHB 274 and its
amendments. She opined that conforming the state statutes to
the Uniform Accountancy Act will benefit both the profession and
the Alaska Board of Public Accountancy. Ms. Williamson opined
that the reciprocity afforded [by adopting the aforementioned
Act by reference] is beneficial in that it will allow CPAs to
practice in multiple jurisdictions without having to conform to
multiple laws and requirements. Furthermore, this legislation
allows the Alaska Board of Public Accountancy to amend
regulations as the national organizations change in accordance
with the Uniform Accountancy Act.
4:09:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if Ms. Williamson, who is a CPA, would
consider herself a person with special competence in accounting.
MS. WILLIAMSON replied yes.
4:09:50 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON, upon determining no one else wished to testify,
announced that the public testimony was closed.
MS. WILLIAMSON, in response to questions regarding whether she
supported Amendment 2, expressed her support for the legislation
and moving forward with regard to conformity with the Uniform
Accountancy Act. Therefore, she stated that she is in support
of getting the legislation passed.
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER, in response to Chair Anderson, related
his opinion that Amendment 2 is not necessary.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT agreed that Amendment 2 isn't necessary; and
therefore he said that he would oppose Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN opined that SSHB 274 is important
legislation. However, he said he would like to err on the side
of caution with Amendment 2, which he didn't believe does any
harm. Therefore, he said he maintained his motion to adopt
Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD noted his agreement with Representative
Rokeberg's earlier comment that this merely provides independent
accountants a seat at the table to know what regulations might
result. He opined that [Amendment 2] doesn't do any harm, and
therefore he said he was in favor of Amendment 2.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG reiterated his belief that Amendment 2
isn't necessary.
4:15:17 PM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Lynn, Guttenberg,
and Crawford voted in favor of the adoption of Amendment 2.
Representatives LeDoux, Kott, Rokeberg, and Anderson voted
against it. Therefore, Amendment 2 failed to be adopted by a
vote of 3-4.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to report SSHB 274, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSSSHB 274(L&C) was
reported from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
The committee took a brief at-ease at 4:17 p.m.
HB 331-UNDERAGE MILITARY ON LICENSED PREMISES
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 331, "An Act relating to access by persons
under 21 years of age to premises licensed to sell alcoholic
beverages as clubs."
4:18:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JIM ELKINS, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 331, began by pointing out that the committee packet should
include a title amendment.
4:18:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD moved that the committee adopt Amendment
1, which read [original punctuation provided]:
Page 1 delete lines 1 and 2 and insert:
"An Act relating to access by persons under 21 years
of age that possess a valid active duty military or
armed forces identification card issued by the United
States Department of Defense or the United States
Department of Homeland Security to a premises licensed
to sell alcoholic beverages as clubs."
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT objected for discussion purposes. He
pointed out that the legislation could be amended further in the
Senate to specify only 19 and 20 year olds. Therefore, if the
intent is to reach a younger age, perhaps it should be
specified.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS said he found it hard to believe that the
Senate would allow that. He highlighted that there are a number
of 17-year-olds who are serving today. The thought, he
explained, was that this legislation only allows underage
military to enter patriotic licensed clubs.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN suggested that perhaps those with military
identification cards could enter [licensed premises], and
therefore it would include 17-year-olds.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT indicated his agreement with Representative
Lynn's suggestion.
4:21:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD pointed out that the body of HB 331
refers to "18, 19, or 20 years of age".
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested that the committee address the
body of the legislation first and then conform the title to it.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG further suggested that such changes
should be conceptual.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD withdrew Amendment 1.
JIM VAN HORN, Staff to Representative Jim Elkins, Alaska State
Legislature, paraphrased from the following written sponsor
statement:
House Bill 331 is a simple, single page bill that
amends AS 04.11.110(g) by authorizing access by
persons under 21 years of age, who possess a valid
military active duty ID card, to a club's licensed
premises without specific authorization of the ABC
board in certain circumstances.
Under present state law, persons under the age of 21
cannot be on premises licensed to sell alcoholic
beverages unless a parent or legal guardian
accompanies them. At the same time, it is recognized
that the Federal Government is the legal guardian of
those active duty personnel under the age of 21.
All active duty personnel are eligible for membership
in veteran's organizations, including those under the
age of 21. Current law causes a dilemma to the under
age person. Here they are, eligible to join an
organization, but unable to go to the meetings because
they are under age.
This legislation will in no way allow the consumption
of alcoholic beverages by persons under the age of 21
in licensed clubs. It will allow active duty people
under 21 to avail themselves of the club's amenities
such as television, pool table, lounge, etc.
4:24:27 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired as to the current description of
the utilization of the various clubs on the military
installations.
MR. VAN HORN related his understanding that [those carrying a
valid military active duty card] can enter the clubs, but cannot
consume alcoholic beverages. He opined that the military clubs
have tightened [the rules] relating to the consumption of
alcohol by active duty personnel.
4:25:42 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON surmised then that the sponsor's understanding is
that 18 to 20-year-olds won't be drinking in these facilities.
4:26:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS interjected that this legislation doesn't
grant the clubs [located on military facilities] the authority
to serve underage individuals and if the club did serve underage
individuals, it would face the same liability as any other
facility.
4:27:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG expressed concern with regard to what a
"patriotic organization licensed as a club" is.
MR. VAN HORN pointed out that AS 04.11.110(b) specified the
definition of a club license, which specifies that any veterans'
organization is a patriotic organization.
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if only veterans' organizations are
considered patriotic organizations. She asked specifically if
patriotic organizations could include organizations other than
veterans' organizations.
4:29:12 PM
MR. VAN HORN explained that for purposes of licensing, only
veterans' organizations are considered patriotic.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved that the committee adopt Amendment
[2], as follows:
Page 1, line 11:
Delete "is 18, 19, 20 years of age and"
Page 1, lines 1 and 2:
Delete "An Act relating to access by persons
under 21 years of age to premises licensed to sell
alcoholic beverages as clubs."
Insert "An Act relating to access by persons
possessing a valid active duty military or armed
forces identification card issued by [insert entities]
to premises licensed to sell."
4:30:48 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN commented that this does not include wives
of military personnel.
4:31:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated that Amendment 2 captures the intent
of the sponsor.
CHAIR ANDERSON commented that a "valid military identification
card" represents a son, daughter, or spouse, and does not
require further definition.
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS stated that in regard to the title of the
bill, he would like it to read: "An Act relating to access by
military personnel under 21 years of age to a patriotic
organization licensed to sell alcoholic beverages as clubs."
4:33:42 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON, providing clarification, stated that the first
part of Amendment 2, which deletes "is 18, 19, or 20 years of
age and", would be maintained and a title amendment in the vein
specified will be requested from Legislative Legal Services.
[Amendment 2 was treated as adopted.]
4:34:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN expressed his strong support for the
legislation, and stated his feeling that active duty military
personnel are adults and should be treated as such. He added
that in his opinion, military personnel should be given even
broader privileges, good or bad.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said " ... I agree with Representative Lynn,
but with the federal restrictions that we currently have
governing these individuals, I think it would be very tough for
us to do it, independent of them making changes."
4:36:37 PM
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board ("ABC
Board"), Department of Public Safety, stated that the ABC Board
deals with this issue often, adding that American Legion Posts,
Auxiliary Posts and Veterans of Foreign Wars [Posts] are
considered "patriotic organizations" that qualify for club
liquor licenses. He added that the only concern he has would be
the potential for putting the bartenders in "very difficult
situations," because once the underage person is in the door,
there is the potential to be served alcohol. He went on to say
that this type of license can be very difficult to regulate and
therefore he characterized this as a "policy call" for the
legislature.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated that the veterans' organizations have
expressed support for the bill, and they stand to lose a lot if
they are not diligent in checking identification.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if underage, those under age 21,
active duty personnel on a military base are allowed to drink
alcohol.
MR. GRIFFIN replied that the ABC Board does not have
jurisdiction on military bases, adding that it may vary from one
military base to another. He stated that in general he feels
that the policy is to not serve persons under 21.
4:41:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS commented that to his knowledge, the
military bases conform to state law.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT, in response to comments from Chair
Anderson, said " ... I'm almost 100 percent sure that there is
no military establishment in this state that allows their
personnel to acquire alcohol under the age of 21 ..." He went
on to say that while he is unaware of any underage drinking
establishments, there are clubs that allow underage persons to
be in the club during certain hours.
MR. VAN HORN explained to the committee that this legislation
was drafted in response to situations involving visiting ships
that have underage personnel on board who cannot enter into
these clubs for food.
4:45:32 PM
DEAN HILL, American Legion, stated that the bartenders at the
American Legion and Veterans of Foreign Wars [Posts] are trained
to check identification and membership cards because it is
against the law to sell a drink to a non-member. He added that
the change will allow members to sponsor visiting military
personnel so that they can enter the club, and the bartenders
will check the identification cards before serving them.
4:47:46 PM
RICHARD SMITH, Post Commander, American Legion - Seward, stated
that he is pleased with [HB 331]. He highlighted the difficulty
with only being able to invite part of a ship's personnel to the
local American Legion.
4:48:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to report HB 331, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
zero fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHB 331(L&C) was
reported from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
4:49:39 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
4:49:43 PM.
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