Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/10/1994 03:00 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 10, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Bill Hudson, Chair
Rep. Joe Green, Vice Chair
Rep. Brian Porter
Rep. Joe Sitton
Rep. Jerry Mackie
Rep. Bill Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Rep. Eldon Mulder
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 386: "An Act relating to the retirement rights of
hourly employees hired by the legislature."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 145: "An Act requiring pay equity for certain public
employees and requiring the compensation of
certain public employees based on the value of
work performed."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 326: "An Act providing that a political use is not an
authorized use of charitable gaming proceeds;
prohibiting the contribution of charitable gaming
proceeds to candidates for certain public offices,
their campaign organizations, or to political
groups; providing that a political group is not a
qualified organization for purposes of charitable
gaming; relating to what is a qualified
organization for the purpose of charitable gaming
permitting; and providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE
*HB 308: "An Act prohibiting the direct or indirect
contribution or payment of the net proceeds of a
bingo or pull-tab game to candidates for public
office; and relating to the definition of
`political organization' as that term is used in
the laws relating to charitable gaming."
HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
TIM BENINTENDI, Staff
Rep. Carl Moses
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4451
Position Statement: Read sponsor statement for HB 386
PAM STOOPS, Executive Director
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-2197
465-3800
Position Statement: Supported HB 386
DIANE LINDBECK, Staff
Rep. Fran Ulmer
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4947
Position Statement: Represented prime sponsor of HB 145
KEVIN RITCHIE, Director
Division of Personnel/EEO
Department of Administration
P.O. Box 110201
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0201
465-4430
Position Statement: Addressed HB 145
DEBORAH TAYLOR
2914 Leightone St.
Anchorage, Alaska 99517
248-7588
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
RICHARD SEWARD
315 Barnette St.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
452-2300
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
THERESA ANDERSON
1237 Kennicott
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
451-5236
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
DWYTE HUTCHINSON
733 20th Ave.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
456-4895
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
BARBARA BINKER
P.O. Box 74868
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
451-5249
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
CATHY DIETRICH
1951 Red Leaf Rd.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
452-2300
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
MARLENE RICE
P.O. Box 81741
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
457-7641
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
(Spoke via teleconference)
CAREN ROBINSON
League of Women Voters
P.O. Box 240423
Douglas, Alaska 99824
364-2154
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
SHERRIE GOLL
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
463-6744
Position Statement: Supported HB 145
REP. GENE THERRIAULT
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-4797
Position Statement: Prime sponsor of HB 308
REP. TERRY MARTIN
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
465-3783
Position Statement: Prime sponsor of HB 326
MANO FREY, Executive President
AFL-CIO
2501 Commercial Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
258-6284
Position Statement: Opposed HB 308 and HB 326
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 386
SHORT TITLE: RETIREMENT RTS:HRLY LEGISLATIVE EMPLOYEES
SPONSOR(S): RULES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/18/94 2098 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/18/94 2099 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE
02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 145
SHORT TITLE: PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ULMER,Sitton,Brown,Brice
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/20/83 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
02/10/93 292 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/10/93 292 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE
03/26/93 808 (H) COSPONSOR(S): BRICE
04/20/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 326
SHORT TITLE: GAMING PROCEEDS/DEFINE CHARITABLE ORG'NS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Olberg,Green
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2012 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2012 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2012 (H) L&C, STA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/13/94 2054 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG
01/14/94 2083 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN
02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 308
SHORT TITLE: LIMIT POLITICAL USE OF GAMBLING PROCEEDS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Olberg,Porter
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2007 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2007 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2007 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,
FINANCE
01/13/94 2053 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG, PORTER
02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-11, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN HUDSON called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m.
Number 020
HB 386 - RETIREMENT RTS:HRLY LEGISLATIVE EMPLOYEES
TIM BENINTENDI, staff, Rep. Carl Moses, gave the following
sponsor statement:
HB 386 has two main objections: One, to provide an avenue
for cost saving opportunities for the Legislative Affairs
Agency, and two, to expand flexibility when hiring
nonpermanent workers.
MR. BENINTENDI noted that the sponsor has offered a
committee substitute (CS) for the committee's benefit that
more clearly states the intent to distinguish between
permanent hourly and temporary who would be hired without
the retirement benefits.
Number 034
REP. MACKIE asked what they continued hourly employees.
Number 046
PAM STOOPS, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency,
explained that the hourly employees referenced here would be
in maintenance and supply when hired for a short duration,
summer tour guide people, persons retired from the state
that might work temporarily in the print shop. Also, in
Public Services the Agency hires hourly employees to
moderate teleconferences.
MS. STOOPS noted that these people could go back and pay
back the costs and pick up this temporary retirement time.
REP. MACKIE asked if this would affect session only staff.
MS. STOOPS responded that this would not affect his current
staff; they are considered monthly paid seasonals.
Number 080
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if this would affect any of the
bargaining units.
MS. STOOPS responded no. She added that the executive
branch has used this classification for years.
Number 085
REP. SITTON asked if these employees would receive benefits
such as workers' compensation.
Number 090
MS. STOOPS responded yes.
Number 105
REP. MACKIE asked if there was or will there be a specific
policy to describe exactly the employees referenced. He
expressed a specific concern that HB 386 not provide a means
to hire employees and skirt around the benefits.
Number 120
MS. STOOPS reiterated her desire to have the flexibility to
hire as needed.
REP. PORTER moved to adopt the L&C committee substitute for
HB 386. No objections were heard; it was so ordered.
REP. PORTER moved CSHB 386(L&C) with individual
recommendations and a negative fiscal note. No objections
were heard; it was so ordered.
Number 204
HB 145 - PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK
DIANE LINDBECK, staff, Rep. Fran Ulmer, Prime Sponsor of HB
145, testified that HB 145 has been before the legislature
before. She stated that it basically provides a mechanism
for providing pay equity for public employees. Ms. Lindbeck
stated that when a job class is dominated by primarily one
gender, they are not comparably paid.
MS. LINDBECK stated that in Alaska as well as the rest of
the nation women on average are paid less than men for
comparable work. These wage disparities exist not just
between individuals but between job classes.
MS. LINDBECK concluded by saying that passage HB 145 would
set the standard for pay equity.
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked what the difference was between pay
equity and comparable worth.
Number 250
KEVIN RITCHIE, Director, Division of Personnel/EEO,
Department of Administration, testified that the system
proposed in HB 145 classifies each job on the same list of
factors. Taking a certain number of job factors; i.e.,
number of people supervised, consequence of error in
judgement for example; you rank each job, equating pay, with
how they rank on the same set of factors. This is a more
objective way of setting pay than the state uses right now.
MR. RITCHIE believed the words comparable worth versus pay
equity are the same thing.
Number 275
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked about a study commissioned years ago
to do the basic groundwork on how are existing system
compared with providing equitable pay for all state workers.
Number 284
MR. RITCHIE explained that the Department of Administration
proposes to revise the Alaska Quantitative Evaluation System
done in 1986, bringing it up to date and implementing it.
Number 291
REP. PORTER asked if the fiscal note provided is for the
purpose stated above.
Number 295
MR. RITCHIE responded yes. He added that the Department
strongly recommends that the committee consider the
substitute provided that would accomplish the same end
through a different vehicle.
Number 325
DEBORAH TAYLOR testified via teleconference in support of
HB 145. Ms. Taylor gave as an example of pay inequity the
male dominated grant coordinator position at a range 18
versus the female dominated eligibility technician in the
Division of Public assistance at a range 13. She said this
bill needs to be passed out of committee to lift the morale
of those employees who are not receiving fair pay for
comparable work.
Number 356
RICHARD SEWARD, Alaska State Employees Association (ASEA),
testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. Mr.
Seward stated that the ASEA is a national leader on pay
equity. Mr. Seward added that they have done studies in
this area in Alaska and have found that a majority of jobs
are segregated by sex. He noted that 48% of all state jobs
had 70% or more men, while 24% of all job classes had 70% or
more women. Of the 13,542 employees surveyed, 55% were men
and 45% were women, but 39% of all state employees are now
working in male dominated job classes and 32% of all
employees are in female dominated job classes. He stated
there is a pay difference between the male and female
dominated job classes. Mr. Seward advised that a female
earns 75 cents to the dollar earned by men.
MR. SEWARD related to the committee that his study showed
that if no academic requirements are found in the minimum
qualifications for a job, the woman will earn 72 cents to
the dollar earned by the man. If high school is required,
the woman will earn 87 cents to the man's dollar. If a
technical degree is required, the woman earns 71 cents to
the man's dollar. With a college degree, the woman earns 87
cents to the man's dollar.
MR. SEWARD stated that ASEA strongly opposes the
administration's proposal for two reasons: 1) it does away
with collective bargaining, and 2) it will not benefit the
women on the state payroll now.
Number 415
CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented, if Mr. Seward had a plan that
would show how to implement a pay equity plan without
increasing the budget, please send it.
Number 420
MR. SEWARD replied that he would be glad to forward to the
committee the experience gathered from other states.
Number 439
REP. PORTER asked Mr. Seward what the gender split in ASEA's
membership was.
Number 441
MR. SEWARD responded that within the general membership
there was between 52 to 55% female.
Number 455
REP. WILLIAMS asked, when the study was done, did it compare
the same types of jobs?
Number 460
MR. SEWARD explained that the study looked at all job
classes that required a college degree for someone to get on
the list to be hired into that job and then it compared the
pay of all the jobs classes requiring a college degree. It
was then divided up into those job classes where there was
70% or more of the employees who were women compared to
those classes where 70% or more of the employees were men.
The only common characteristic was that each had to have a
college degree to be hired; then the study compared the pay.
Number 470
REP. MACKIE asked if they were the same jobs. For instance,
two people working side-by-side doing the exact same thing,
with the male making more then the female.
Number 486
MR. SEWARD stated that if a job class is primarily filled by
women, then the pay range is likely to be less then a
similar job class filled primarily be men.
MR. SEWARD used the example of nurse practitioner largely
filled by women versus physician assistants largely filled
by men. They generally do the same thing day by day, but
the physician assistants make more money.
REP. PORTER asked why the union allowed the wage disparities
to happen in the first place.
Number 514
MR. SEWARD responded that his predecessor took it to court
and the Supreme Court ruled that everyone in the same job
class had to be paid the same. The law of the land is not
comparable worth and the court couldn't do anything to help
the women. So the union came to the legislature for help.
Number 522
REP. PORTER asked if the union is or will be negotiating
with the state on the positions that the union feels are
underpaid.
Number 527
MR. SEWARD said the state is refusing to bargain on these
proposals. He added that the state does not have to bargain
on which job classes they pay what pay ranges; they only
have to bargain on the dollar amount given to the ranges.
Number 550
THERESA ANDERSON testified via teleconference in support of
HB 145. She said many men and women who are the sole
support of their families need pay equity.
MS. ANDERSON stated that the wage gap between men and women
was even narrower in 1955 then it was in 1984. This gap
will never close until pay equity is the law. The state
budget should not be balanced on the backs of the females of
the state or the males who are in the job classes dominated
by females.
MS. ANDERSON noted that employers set wages using factors of
which market value of supply and demand is only one. Other
factors include internal equity, pay progression methods and
comparative structure. The external market does not exist
independently, it is created by wage setting decisions by
employers with constraints placed on it by existing laws.
She noted that, despite decreases in the supply of clerical
workers and nurses in 1985, wages did not increase
automatically for these jobs.
TAPE 94-10, SIDE B
Number 001
MS. ANDERSON said the state continues to deny or explain
away the differences between the wages between men and
women, ignoring study after study. The state finally
proposes that women switch jobs if they want more pay.
MS. ANDERSON concluded by saying that pay equity has been
studied in the past but not implemented. She suggested that
the state doesn't need more studies, but needs to apply
sound compensation principals to men's jobs as well as
women's.
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if Ms. Anderson knew of any models the
legislature could look at to help them in their
deliberation.
MS. ANDERSON stated that she was not advocating lowering the
male dominated wages; it is illegal, but there are states,
such as Minnesota, that have implemented pay equity and have
been very successful. She added that the information is
readily available.
Number 075
REP. ULMER stated that HB 145 is modeled on the Minnesota
law. She added that federal law states that you cannot
implement wage equity on the backs of someone else.
Number 117
REP. PORTER asked if there is a federal law on comparable
worth.
Number 120
REP. ULMER responded that there is a federal law and they
requested the states to pass and implement their own.
Number 125
REP. PORTER asked Rep. Ulmer is she was aware of any suits
brought in the states that challenged the situation that a
generally similar qualification requirement in one class
versus another class that has a pay equity problem is
unconstitutional.
REP. ULMER responded that the State of Washington went
through lengthy litigation regarding this issue.
Number 134
DWYTE HUTCHINSON testified via teleconference in support of
HB 145. He stated that he is in a very dominated field; he
feels that the responsibilities and technical work he is
required to do is well beyond the level of pay he is at now.
Number 155
BARBARA BINKER testified via teleconference that this issue
is plain and simple one of fairness to everyone. Ms. Binker
supported HB 145. She said women don't want back pay, they
just want to be treated fairly. Ms. Binker stated she wants
to see her daughter be able to choose a career and make a
comfortable living at it.
Number 183
KATHY DIETRICH testified via teleconference that she is in
support of HB 145. She stated that the administration's
proposal is more then just a change in the vehicle, it's a
substantive change. She explained that, currently, if your
job class is determined to be improperly classed, then those
in the job class would move to the new range, but they would
take their present step with them to the new range. The
administration's proposal would eliminate that.
MS. DIETRICH stated that it is past the time when women are
going out to work for curtain money. Most of the women in
the work force today are doing it out of necessity. But
this is not a women's issue, she said, it is an issue of
fairness for both men and women.
MS. DIETRICH expressed frustration at the thought of more
studies being done. She said, let's stop studying the issue
and implement pay equity.
Number 270
REP. MACKIE expressed support for this issue but admitted
that at times it is confusing and he did not want his line
of questions to be misconstrued to mean he was against the
bill.
Number 300
MARLENE RICE testified via teleconference in support of HB
145. She stated that she was frustrated with having to show
persons that make double and triple what she makes how to
work the computer. She has applied for jobs in the upper
ranges only to come in second to a man. Ms. Rice stated she
wanted to know how come her sons, who just graduated high
school, are making what she does after four years on the
job.
Number 333
CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, testified in support
of HB 145. She stated that in 1963 President John F.
Kennedy signed into law the equal pay act guaranteeing women
equal pay for equal work. Now, 31 years later, women are
still 30% behind men in earnings.
MS. ROBINSON stated that female dominated jobs are
undervalued. She added that this bias has to stop, and she
believes it's time to stop studying it and do something
about it.
MS. ROBINSON added that the state may find some savings in
some aid programs if it would pay women fairly for the work
that they do.
Number 385
SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, testified in support of
HB 145. She stated that Margaret Mead, the noted
anthropologist, has said that there was a pervasive social
bias against the value of women's work and that it occurs in
almost all human cultures. In Ms. Mead's work she found
many villages in which the women fish and the men weave, and
what was similar in these villages was that the work done by
women was less valued.
MS. GOLL stated that the discrimination against women goes
back to 1865 when the federal government bought its first
typewriter. Female clerks were paid $600.00 per year and
male clerks $1200.00 per year.
MS. GOLL added that in the old days the reason given for the
inequality was that the men were the bread winners, but as
we know now, we have many families headed by women.
MS. GOLL concluded by saying that the administration's
proposal is basically the way the earlier bill was killed
because it eliminates collective bargaining.
REP. PORTER asked what the basic differences were between
the original bill and the administration's proposal.
MR. RITCHIE answered that the vehicle was essentially the
same. The proposal is not a method of creating equity
between the sexes only or identifying some jobs and raising
them, it's basically a fundamental change in the entire
classification system.
MR. RITCHIE stated that one difference is that the study
will be implemented under the administration's proposal. He
believes that a partial implementation is detrimental to the
issue. Lastly, the administration's proposal has a meet and
confer type of relationship with the union rather then
negotiating.
Number 500
REP. ULMER stated that the CS eliminates the ability of the
union to bargain and would eliminate the ability to get any
pay increases as a result of the pay equity determination.
Number 503
REP. PORTER summed up what he believes the differences to
be. He said both approaches do a study and reach the same
results; HB 145 would allow the study to be used in actual
labor negotiations, as opposed to the administration's
approach to meet and confer with the union, but the results
of the study would be implemented in any event.
Number 520
CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated he felt the committee had a good
grasp of this issue. He added that this issue seemed to be
boiling down to the financing of the implementation and not
any disagreement of the concept of the fairness issue.
CHAIRMAN HUDSON gave a brief history of his dealings with
job classifications and their pay ranges.
CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated that the question is, how do we
determine what the new classes aught to be, what will be the
cost, and how will we implement it?
Number 565
REP. MACKIE moved HB 145 with individual recommendations and
a zero fiscal note. No objections were heard; it was so
ordered.
TAPE 94-11, SIDE A
Number 001
HB 308 - LIMIT POLITICAL USE OF GAMBLING PROCEEDS
HB 326 - GAMING PROCEEDS/DEFINE CHARITABLE ORG'NS
REP. GENE THERRIAULT, Prime Sponsor of HB 308, stated that
basically he introduced the bill because he believes
charitable gambling should be just that. The proceeds
should go to charity and not political parties. He said HB
308 would modify current statutes by adding a provision to
prohibit the use of net proceeds from charitable gaming
activities for candidates for public office or that
candidate's organization. He stated HB 308 would also
expand the definition of a political organization to include
political parties. Current definitions limit "political
organizations" to organizations or clubs organized for or
formally affiliated with a political party. This expansion
will cover all political and quasi-political organizations
and supplement the effect of Section 1.
Number 075
REP. TERRY MARTIN explained that when you mix gambling and
politics and it becomes acceptable you have the worst
scenario for corrupt government.
REP. MARTIN stated that Alaska is the only state that allows
political parties or candidates to receive money from
gaming. This bill would prohibit this.
REP. MARTIN believed that the political parties end up
competing for the same dollars with charities.
Number 192
REP. MACKIE asked Rep. Martin to describe to him how money
from gaming causes corrupt government and also how that is
different from someone getting money from an oil company or
from any other interest group.
Number 235
REP. MARTIN responded that he has looked through the files
of APOC. He brought up the file of the District 11
Democrats where each month the proceeds from the Northern
Light Bingo parlor goes into their fund and whoever is in
charge of the District 11 Democrats is in charge of
funneling the money back out to candidates.
REP. MARTIN gave more examples of how the money comes in and
how it's funneled out.
Number 300
REP. MACKIE asked again how gaming money, as opposed to oil
money, causes corruption in government. He said it's all
legal.
Number 320
REP. MARTIN responded that history shows us that it causes
corruption. Also, there are no limits on what can be given.
Number 340
REP. MACKIE asked for an example of corruption and stated
that he believes this bill would just be legislating
morality.
Number 350
REP. MARTIN responded with some facts about some state
legislators getting into trouble in various states involving
gambling.
Number 365
REP. THERRIAULT stated that he didn't believe the people of
Alaska meant for charitable gaming proceeds to be funneled
into politics. He added that the key word is "charitable."
REP. MACKIE suggested that if disclosure was the objection,
then why not post a sign at the pull tab location stating
who owned the permit and where the proceeds will go and
allow people to make their own judgments.
Number 391
REP. GREEN asked how permits are acquired now.
Number 420
REP. MARTIN responded with an explanation of the current
law.
Number 450
CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked the Director of Gaming to prepare for
the committee a laymen summary of how the application is
made, what controls the Division has on applicants, and what
percentage goes into charity versus political parties and
operations.
Number 482
MANO FREY, Executive President, AFL/CIO, testified against
HB 308 and HB 326. Mr. Frey stated that the AFL/CIO does
have a gaming permit, but does not make any direct political
contributions. He added that they rely on the proceeds from
their gaming permits to run their operations and staff.
MR. FREY added that he is also the business manager of Local
341 and that organization does utilize its gaming proceeds
to make political contributions to candidates. But most of
the proceeds go toward scholarships, little league and other
community events.
MR. FREY stated that HB 326 would hurt the Laborer's chance
to make money in this way and he expressed resentment at the
fact that his organization is being signaled out.
Number 530
CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced he would hold HB 308 and HB 326
over for more information.
CHAIRMAN HUDSON adjourned the meeting at 5:22 p.m.
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