03/28/2014 03:30 PM House L&C
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB60 | |
| HB230 | |
| HB281 | |
| HB288 | |
| HB302 | |
| HB328 | |
| HB253 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
March 28, 2014
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Kurt Olson, Chair
Representative Mike Chenault
Representative Bob Herron
Representative Dan Saddler
Representative Andy Josephson
Representative Craig Johnson
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Lora Reinbold, Vice Chair
Representative Charisse Millett
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 60
"An Act adopting and relating to the Uniform Real Property
Transfer on Death Act."
- MOVED CSHB 60(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 230
"An Act allowing the Alaska Industrial Development and Export
Authority to issue bonds for an oil or gas processing facility;
and creating the oil and gas infrastructure fund to finance
construction or improvement of an oil or gas processing
facility."
- MOVED CSHB 230(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 281
"An Act relating to prescription of drugs by a physician without
a physical examination."
- MOVED CSHB 281(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 288
"An Act creating the Arctic infrastructure development program
and fund in the Alaska Industrial Development and Export
Authority."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 302
"An Act relating to the practice of public accounting; and
relating to rules of professional conduct for the profession of
public accounting."
- MOVED CSHB 302(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 328
"An Act establishing the Board of Massage Therapists; relating
to the licensing of massage therapists; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 253
"An Act providing for the licensing and regulation of private
investigators and private investigator agencies; and providing
for an effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 203
"An Act relating to payment or reimbursement of health care
insurance claims."
- BILL HEARING CANCELED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 60
SHORT TITLE: UNIFORM REAL PROPERTY TRANSFERS ON DEATH
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GRUENBERG
01/16/13 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/11/13
01/16/13 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/16/13 (H) L&C, JUD
03/21/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/21/14 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
03/24/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/24/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/24/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 230
SHORT TITLE: AIDEA BONDS FOR PROCESSING FACILITIES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) SEATON
01/21/14 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/10/14
01/21/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/14 (H) L&C, FIN
02/21/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
02/21/14 (H) Heard & Held
02/21/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/14/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/14/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/14/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/24/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/24/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/24/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 281
SHORT TITLE: PRESCRIPTION WITHOUT PHYSICAL EXAMINATION
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GATTIS
01/27/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/27/14 (H) HSS, L&C
02/13/14 (H) HSS AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/13/14 (H) Heard & Held
02/13/14 (H) MINUTE(HSS)
02/27/14 (H) HSS AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/27/14 (H) Moved CSHB 281(HSS) Out of Committee
02/27/14 (H) MINUTE(HSS)
02/28/14 (H) HSS RPT CS(HSS) 4DP
02/28/14 (H) DP: SEATON, PRUITT, KELLER, HIGGINS
03/17/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/17/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/17/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/26/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/26/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/26/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 288
SHORT TITLE: AIDEA: ARCTIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM/FUND
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) HERRON
01/29/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/29/14 (H) L&C, FIN
02/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
02/28/14 (H) Heard & Held
02/28/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/17/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/17/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/17/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 302
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) THOMPSON
02/10/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/10/14 (H) L&C
03/05/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/05/14 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 328
SHORT TITLE: BOARD/LICENSING OF MASSAGE THERAPISTS
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) NAGEAK
02/21/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/21/14 (H) L&C, FIN
03/05/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/05/14 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
03/10/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/10/14 (H) Heard & Held
03/10/14 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/21/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
03/21/14 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
BILL: HB 253
SHORT TITLE: PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS/AGENCIES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) HUGHES, GRUENBERG
01/21/14 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/17/14
01/21/14 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/21/14 (H) L&C, FIN
03/28/14 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE MAX GRUENBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as prime sponsor of HB 60.
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as prime sponsor of HB 230.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN GATTIS
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as prime sponsor of HB 281.
LYNNETTE BERGH, Staff
Representative Steve Thompson
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the prime sponsor,
Representative Steve Thompson, on HB 302.
REPRESENTATIVE BEN NAGEAK
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as prime sponsor of HB 328.
MARY SCHLOSSER, Staff
Representative Benjamin Nageak
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the discussion of HB 328.
VICTORIA DANCE, Massage Therapist
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the discussion of HB 328.
MARTY HESTER, Deputy Director
Juneau Office, Division of Insurance
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development (DCCED)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the discussion of HB 328.
GINGER BLAISDELL, Staff
Representative Shelley Hughes
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of one of the joint
prime sponsors for HB 253, Representative Shelley Hughes.
H.H. "TRES" LEWIS III
Private investigator
Mendenhall Investigations, Inc.
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the discussion of HB 253.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:30:48 PM
CHAIR KURT OLSON called the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:30 p.m. Representatives Herron,
Johnson, Josephson, Chenault, and Olson were present at the call
to order. Representative Saddler arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 60-UNIFORM REAL PROPERTY TRANSFERS ON DEATH
3:31:26 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the first order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 60, "An Act adopting and relating to the Uniform
Real Property Transfer on Death Act."
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection [Version C was before the
committee].
3:32:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE MAX GRUENBERG, Alaska State Legislature,
explained that HB 60 is a Uniform Real Property Transfers on
Death Act and will allow people to sign a deed effective upon
their death. The deed can be revoked later or superseded with
another deed; a person can disclaim it so long as it is recorded
so the chain of title is very clear. A "wild deed will," or a
will that is not recorded, will not generally supersede it. He
reported 21 states have adopted this and four others are
considering it. It is now part of the uniform act with South
Dakota being the most recent state to adopt these changes. This
bill will help a lot of people and AARP has endorsed it, and he
just received a letter from the Commission on Aging and the
Alaska Association of Realtors, Inc. who are also endorsing the
bill. He is not aware of any opposition unless it would be a
few lawyers afraid of losing a little business. He reiterated
that this should help people with estate planning and will
continue to "tweak" the bill in the next committee of referral.
3:33:53 PM
CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 60.
3:34:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report HB 60, Version C, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, the CSHB 60(L&C) was
reported from the House Labor & Commerce Committee.
3:34:06 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:34 to 3:35 p.m.
HB 230-AIDEA BONDS FOR PROCESSING FACILITIES
3:35:12 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 230, "An Act allowing the Alaska Industrial
Development and Export Authority to issue bonds for an oil or
gas processing facility; and creating the oil and gas
infrastructure fund to finance construction or improvement of an
oil or gas processing facility."
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection [Version N, which was adopted
on March 24, 2014, was before the committee].
3:35:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEATON, Alaska State Legislature, explained
the changes in the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB
230, Version N. He stated that this version will allow the
Alaska Industrial Development & Export Authority (AIDEA) to
issue development bonds for oil and gas processing facilities on
the North Slope in order to incentivize obtaining additional oil
in the pipeline, in particular from small independent operators.
In addition, on page 2, lines 21-23, at the suggestion of legal
services, language was added to make it easier to qualify for
tax credits. He commented that this language needs to be
further addressed; hence the pending amendment.
3:36:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 28-
LS1053\N.1, Nauman, 3/24/14, which read:
Page 1, lines 2 - 3:
Delete "providing a tax credit for the
construction or improvement of an oil or gas
processing facility;"
Page 2, lines 16 - 28:
Delete all material.
Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.
CHAIR OLSON objected for the purpose of discussion.
3:37:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON explained that Amendment 1 will remove the
tax credit since it would also have inadvertently affected SB 21
tax credits. There was no intention to do so, he said.
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
3:37:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt Amendment 2, labeled 28-
LS0153\N.2, Nauman, 3/25/14, which read:
Page 2, line 4:
Delete "for allow"
Insert "allow for"
CHAIR OLSON objected for purpose of discussion.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON thanked Representative Saddler for
pointing out the inversion of words. He characterized this as
being a technical change.
There being no further objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.
3:38:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report the proposed CS for HB
230, Version N, labeled 28-LS1053\N, Nauman, 3/17/14, as
amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and
the accompanying fiscal note. There being no objection, the
CSHB 230(L&C) was reported from the House Labor & Commerce
Standing Committee.
3:40:44 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
HB 281-PRESCRIPTION WITHOUT PHYSICAL EXAMINATION
3:40:57 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 281, "An Act relating to prescription of drugs by
a physician without a physical examination." [CSHB 281(HSS) was
before the committee.]
CHAIR OLSON stated the committee has heard the bill several
times. During the last hearing on March 26, 2014, the committee
experienced some technical audio difficulties yet was able to
take testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 281, labeled 28-LS1234\N, Martin,
3/27/14, as the working document.
CHAIR OLSON objected for the purpose of discussion.
3:42:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN GATTIS, Alaska State Legislature, said that
Version N will recognize the telemedicine practices by the
Department of Corrections (DOC) and the Department of Health and
Social Services (DHSS).
3:43:18 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON asked if subparagraph (B) on page 1,
lines 11-14 addresses DOC's concerns.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTIS answered that it does.
3:43:47 PM
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Version N was before the committee.
CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 281.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON commented that he "feels better about
this legislation." He referred to a March 18, 2014, letter from
the state medical board and he was unsure of the board's
concerns, whether the board is "a tough nut to crack", but he is
somewhat more comfortable with the bill.
3:44:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 281, Version N, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.
There being no objection, the CSHB 281(L&C) was reported from
the House Labor & Commerce Standing Committee.
3:45:10 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:45 p.m. to 3:48 p.m.
HB 288-AIDEA: ARCTIC DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM/FUND
3:47:57 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 288, "An Act creating the Arctic infrastructure
development program and fund in the Alaska Industrial
Development and Export Authority."
CHAIR OLSON explained that the committee has requested a new
committee substitute for the bill and the sponsor has asked to
have the bill held over to a future date.
[HB 288 was held over.]
3:48:00 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 3:48 p.m. to 3:51 p.m.
HB 302-PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS
3:51:05 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 302, "An Act relating to the practice of public
accounting; and relating to rules of professional conduct for
the profession of public accounting."
3:51:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 302, labeled 28-LS1292\N, Martin,
3/11/14, as the working document.
CHAIR OLSON objected for purpose of discussion.
3:51:51 PM
LYNNETTE BERGH, Staff, Representative Steve Thompson, Alaska
State Legislature, stated that HB 302 was drafted in response to
the Alaska Board of Public Accountancy's (BPA) FY 2013 annual
report recommendations. The proposed committee substitute (CS)
for HB 302, Version N, addresses AS 08.04.080, the professional
rules of conduct for the profession of public accounting. This
section of statute sets the timeframe the BPA must use for the
adoption of any rules or amendments and the effective date for
each licensee or firm. The proposed CS, Version N, would amend
the number of days for noticing from 60 days to 30 days. This
timeframe is in line with the Division of Corporations,
Business, and Professional Licensing's (DCBPL) guidelines.
3:53:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification on the change
from 60 days to 30 days.
MS. BERGH characterized this as a housekeeping matter since the
original statute didn't match with the division guidelines, and
the BPA noted the discrepancy.
3:53:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether it was a clerical error.
MS. BERGH referred to AS 44.62.190, which provides division
guidelines for noticing any regulation changes. She read
subsection (a), "At least 30 days before the adoption,
amendment, or repeal of a regulation, notice of the proposed
action shall be...."
3:54:09 PM
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection.
CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 302.
3:54:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to report the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 302, Version N, out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.
There being no objection, the CSHB 302(L&C) was reported from
the House Labor & Commerce Standing Committee.
3:55:00 PM
The committee took a brief at ease.
HB 328-BOARD/LICENSING OF MASSAGE THERAPISTS
3:56:38 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the next order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 328 "An Act establishing the Board of Massage
Therapists; relating to the licensing of massage therapists; and
providing for an effective date."
3:56:57 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON made a motion to adopt Amendment 1,
labeled 28-LS1431\N.2, Martin, 3/25/14, which read as follows:
Page 7, line 31:
Delete ", awareness, and education by Ida P.
Rolf"
Insert "and awareness who has graduated from a
program or is a current member of an organization
recognized by the International Association of
Structural Integrators, including the Rolf Institute
of Structural Integration"
Page 9, line 4, following "medicines,":
Insert "the practice of physical therapy,"
CHAIR OLSON objected for the purpose of discussion.
3:57:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE BEN NAGEAK, Alaska State Legislature, thanked
members for the opportunity to ask for support for HB 328. He
explained that HB 328 would establish a Board of Massage
Therapists and provide regulation for certification. Massage
therapists have requested licensure but have also asked for a
few changes, which are incorporated into amendments "N.1" [not
yet before the committee] and Amendment 1, [labeled 28-
LS1431\N.2, Martin, 3/25/14, currently under consideration]. He
asked his staff to explain the proposed amendments.
3:57:59 PM
MARY SCHLOSSER, Staff, Representative Benjamin Nageak, Alaska
State Legislature, explained Amendment 1. She referred to page
7, line 31 of HB 328 and stated that the Alaska Massage
Therapist Licensure Coalition (AMTLC) asked for this change
because the International Association of Structural Integrators
(IASI) wanted clarification that the practice of Rolfing would
be exempted from this bill. She noted the Rolfing profession
has very high standards. Secondly, on page 9, line 4, language
was inserted to clarify that massage therapists do not practice
physical therapy. This change was requested by the physical
therapists. In response to a question, Ms. Schlosser said she
wasn't familiar with other groups seeking licensure.
CHAIR OLSON remarked that athletic trainers would be addressed
in a separate licensing bill.
4:00:09 PM
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection to Amendment 1. There being
no further objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
4:00:22 PM
VICTORIA DANCE, Massage Therapist, stated she is a massage
therapist who works for a medical office in Juneau. She
previously testified in opposition to the bill because it only
requires a minimum of 500 hours of training since ordinances
already require the same minimum hours. It didn't make any
sense to go to the expense of a board for licensing. She said
she has contacted the AMTLC to increase the minimum requirement
for licensure, but the coalition has not been interested in
changing the number of hours so she decided to testify before
the committee with her request. She provided her background,
such that she is a massage therapist who has been licensed in
Arizona since 1983. She was the director of Continuing
Education at the Desert Institute of the Healing Arts in Tucson
prior to working as a massage therapist in a medical clinic in
Juneau for the last five years. She also holds a Master's
Degree in Higher Education Administration. She asked to address
the educational qualifications and aspects of HB 328.
4:02:06 PM
MS. DANCE suggested that the educational requirement should be
increased to 600 hours since almost every standard-setting
organization for massage therapy in the nation recommends a
minimum of 600 to 625 hours training. [The Commission on
Massage Therapy Accreditation] (COMTA), an organization
recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education to specialize in
accrediting massage therapy schools, requires 600 hours. [The
Entry-Level Analysis Project] ELAP [a research project initiated
by the Coalition of National Massage Therapy Organizations in
March 2012] has recommended a minimum of 625 hours training.
She also discussed training hours with Pete Whitridge, president
of the Alliance for Massage Therapy Education, [a non-profit
organization established to serve as an independent voice,
advocate, and resource for the entire education sector] who
said, "There is a tremendous divergence between 500 hours and
625 or 700 hours." Mr. Whitridge further stated that setting
the minimum requirement of 500 hours does the state a great
disservice in terms of current suggested practice especially
with the growing field of medical massage. He emphasized that
it is important at the beginning of a massage therapist's career
to have additional training and context of medicine and
insurance billing, which is not possible in a 500-hour program.
MS. DANCE explained that a 500-hour program teaches massage
therapists the basics of Swedish massage techniques for
relaxation and introduces them to a potpourri of techniques to
later study during continuing education credits. She emphasized
her belief that it is not possible to teach massage therapists
much beyond the basic protocols in an entry level 500-hour
training program. The American Manual Medicine Association
(AMMA), [a non-profit corporation serving all members of the
health care community who serve the public health through manual
therapy] recommends a minimum of 600 hours of training. Some
state boards, including Ohio's, are currently in a predicament
since these states must now amend their enabling statutes in
order to increase the minimum qualifications for licensure. In
fact, only 14 states currently require as few as 500 hours of
training, she said. She characterized this bill as one that has
been modeled after a boiler plate from the early 2000s, which
needs updating.
CHAIR OLSON asked whether she has shared her concerns with the
bill sponsor.
MS. DANCE related she has recently provided the sponsor's office
with her concerns.
4:04:58 PM
MARTY HESTER, Deputy Director, Division of Insurance, Department
of Commerce, Community & Economic Development, asked to address
the applicability to health insurance policies. He explained
that HB 328 does not amend Title 21, the Alaska insurance code.
It would not change the ability of an insurer to write a policy
that did not cover massage or that required a doctor or
chiropractor to prescribe a massage in order to qualify for
coverage. The licensure will not change the ability of an
insurer to require that billing be processed through the
prescribing doctor's office or in a particular manner; however,
the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) applies
to all class providers and prohibits provider discrimination.
One provision of PPACA prevents insurers from discriminating
against entire classes of health care providers if the health
care providers are willing to abide by the terms and conditions
of participation and are acting within the scope of practice and
in compliance with the state licensure requirements.
4:06:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked for clarification on the insurance
aspects.
MR. HESTER said a question arose as to whether massage therapy
would specifically be covered under health insurance policies
and if a massage therapist could bill an insurer directly for
the services they provided. He explained that HB 328 does not
change the insurance code to affect those items nor does it
change the PPACA mandating the insurer to provide that coverage
for massage therapy.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON said none of this surprised him.
4:08:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether it would be the status quo,
and massage therapy will not be covered by insurance.
MR. HESTER said it depends on the insurance plan. Currently,
Premera Blue Cross Blue Shield provides massage therapy coverage
but Aetna or other insurance coverage may differ. This bill
doesn't mandate the coverage these plans offer.
4:08:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER related his understanding that HB 328
does not change insurance law to mandate or not, that it depends
on the policy and it does not affect the [PPACA's] mandate to
cover massage therapy.
MR. HESTER answered yes.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON related his understanding that it would
depend on whether a doctor prescribed the massage therapy as to
the insurance coverage. He suggested it might change the result
if a doctor prescribed the massage rather than someone just
going to a massage therapist.
MR. HESTER answered that it would depend on the health insurance
the individual has as to the insurance coverage or reimbursement
for massage therapy.
4:09:28 PM
CHAIR OLSON removed his objection. There being no further
objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
CHAIR OLSON, after first determining no one else wished to
testify, closed public testimony on HB 328.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON asked whether the two amendments were
incorporated into the bill.
The committee took a brief at-ease.
4:11:29 PM
CHAIR OLSON explained that members did not have adequate time to
consider amendment [N.1] in members' packets so it will be taken
up at a later date.
[HB 328 was held over.]
4:11:25 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease from 4:11 p.m. to 4:15 p.m.
HB 253-PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS/AGENCIES
4:15:33 PM
CHAIR OLSON announced that the final order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 253, "An Act providing for the licensing and
regulation of private investigators and private investigator
agencies; and providing for an effective date."
4:15:40 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt the proposed committee
substitute (CS) for HB 253, labeled 28-LS1012\N, Martin,
3/11/14, as the working document [Version N].
CHAIR OLSON objected for the purpose of discussion.
4:16:00 PM
GINGER BLAISDELL, Staff, Representative Shelley Hughes, Alaska
State Legislature, stated that HB 253 would create a new program
to license private investigators. She explained that a few
months ago a constituent brought information to Representative
Hughes regarding the lack of professional requirements to become
a private investigator in Alaska. Currently, an individual can
become a private investigator by completing a one-page business
license application, paying a $50 fee, and selecting the
commercial business license code 561611 for investigative
services. There are 139 active private investigator licensees
in Alaska, including 30 licensees with Lower 48 mailing
addresses and 109 in the state. She added that 42 other states
have varying requirements to be licensed as a private
investigator and HB 253 incorporates some of their provisions.
4:17:15 PM
MS. BLAISDELL stated that HB 253 requires private investigators
to obtain a professional license to become a private
investigator. It creates a misdemeanor if a person practices as
a private investigator without the license. The bill identifies
a scope of practice, outlining education and experience
necessary to qualify for two classes of licensure. She
explained that for a class A license, the individual must be 21
years of age, have at least a high school diploma or higher
education, and have 1,500 hours of work in investigative
services. A class B license requires an individual be 18 years
of age or older, hold a high school diploma or equivalent, and
be employed by a private investigator. In addition, these
individuals must provide fingerprints for a background check at
the state and national levels.
MS. BLAISDELL related that a person falsifying information on an
application is subject to a class A misdemeanor. She advised
that the Department of Commerce, Community & Economic
Development (DCCED) shall issue a class A or B license to
qualified individuals. She related that the bill includes
prohibited practices, including wearing a uniform or presenting
a badge that would cause a reasonable individual to believe that
the private investigator has official law enforcement authority.
Further, a private investigator cannot solicit business for an
attorney, and exemptions are included for those who conduct
investigations but are not private investigators.
4:18:50 PM
MS. BLAISDELL reviewed the committee substitute, Version N,
which removes a provision to require firearms so private
investigators would not be granted authority to carry firearm.
She related that fire investigators would also be exempt, and
the proposed committee substitute also removes continuing
education requirements since no one in the state is readily
available to provide the instruction. Private investigators
have expressed a willingness to pay for the cost for licensing
fees and background checks. The primary concern for creating
licensure for private investigators is to improve public safety
for citizens. She explained that the people seeking private
investigator services may be under duress or reaching out for
help and may be vulnerable to unscrupulous investigators. For
example, a person in need may be more willing to give out
personal and private information to a professional who is
presumed to have an association with a legal entity, such as a
private investigator, and could be unwittingly taken advantage
of during that time.
4:20:22 PM
MS. BLAISDELL shared the story that highlighted the need for
this bill. She explained that a family's daughter went missing,
and the case became a high profile case in Alaska. The family
was approached by a private investigator offering services to
locate their daughter. It later came to light that the person
was an unscrupulous private investigator who was a convicted sex
offender in another state, had served many years in prison as a
felon, and had a history of crimes committed in another state
prior to moving to Alaska. She said it's time to protect
Alaska's citizens by reviewing the individuals who are asking
for a professional status to collect personal and private
information so no others will prey on Alaskans in their time of
need.
4:21:09 PM
MS. BLAISDELL provided an analysis of Version N. Section 1
would add a new regulation of private investigators and
establish a new chapter in law. Section 2 limits the practice
of private investigating to those individuals licensed under
chapter 85. She stated that Section 2 will also provide the
scope of practice and identify the kinds of information that
private investigators can collect and outlines the general
requirements, such that the person may not have a misdemeanor or
a felony in the prior 10 years and may not be convicted of a
crime of dishonesty or sexual misconduct. The person may not
have a dishonorable discharge from the military, or have been
determined to be mentally incompetent by a court of law.
Additionally, the individual may not currently be a peace
officer or in a position in law enforcement that may present a
conflict of interest.
4:22:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT referred to the general requirements for
private investigators that prohibit individuals who have had a
misdemeanor or a felony in the prior 10 years. He asked whether
that would include driving under the influence of alcohol.
MS. BLAISDELL related her understanding that it would refer to
any misdemeanor or felony in the prior 10 years.
4:23:11 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT was unsure of the number of crimes that
are included as misdemeanors.
CHAIR OLSON did not think it would limit it.
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT suggested that any misdemeanor would
provide grounds for removal of a private investigator's license
or prevent license renewal.
CHAIR OLSON asked whether these provisions were taken out of
model language.
MS. BLAISDELL clarified that the language was taken from other
state laws for licensing private investigators and many of these
states broadly stated no misdemeanor or felony in the prior 10
years without providing any exceptions.
4:23:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON saw a "carve out" for fire
investigators and wondered if there was one for peace officers
so they are not subject to this license.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 10, to exemptions, but suggested
that peace officers are handled in another section. She
referred to [page 3, paragraph (7)], which restricts currently
employed peace officers from being private investigators.
4:25:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER referred to page 2, lines 20-21, which
requires that private investigators must be a citizen or
resident alien of the U.S. He asked if consideration was given
to requiring private investigators to be residents of Alaska.
MS. BLAISDELL recommended against that since instances occur in
which a private investigator is brought in from out-of-state who
has special skills. She suggested that it may include
investigators conducting confidential work for oil companies.
In further response, she agreed the language was considered.
4:26:41 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 3, proposed AS 08.85.140, which
outlines class A and B private investigator qualifications. She
explained the reason to establish two separate classes was to
provide progression for the profession. For example, a high
school graduate might be hired by someone who does investigative
work and can obtain job skills. Once the person obtains
investigative skills, the person can obtain a higher level of
professional licensure. She characterized it as a part of the
process to make sure skilled people are providing information to
courts and in the legal system.
4:27:32 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 4, AS 08.85.160, which outlines
the criteria in the license application, including the
requirement for fingerprints and local and national criminal
background checks. This statute asks for letters of character
references from three citizens with no prior felony record. She
noted that the felony list is available on court view.
4:28:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON asked whether restrictions on tattoos
should be included. He wondered if a psychological test should
be required instead of a statement of mental health.
MS. BLAISDELL answered that tattoos were not considered and she
did not recall seeing tattoos in other states' laws. She
offered to consider adding it. She recalled that two states did
do a mental health examination, but most others did not include
one. She was unsure whether Health Insurance Portability and
Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA) requirements covered this.
She offered to consider this matter for the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON said that given the reality shows he has
seen that some private investigators need psychological testing.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER referred to page [5] line 7, which
requires an Alaska driver's license number and expiration date.
He asked whether the specific requirement for an applicant to
provide an Alaska driver's license should be deleted since the
bill doesn't require a private investigator to be an Alaska
resident.
MS. BLAISDELL acknowledged that probably is a good point. She
related that this language was put in to provide a secondary
point of identification through the Division of Motor Vehicles
as a means of providing identification. In further response to
a question, she agreed it should require a driver's license.
4:30:59 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 6 to AS 08.85.170, related to
investigation of applicants, which gives the department the
authority to verify the applicant's information. She also
referred to [AS 08.85.200] to reciprocity, which allows the
department to issue a license card to someone licensed in
another state and allow them to conduct specialized work in
Alaska. She further referred to [AS 08.85.210] to license
cards, which provides identification that the individual is a
private investigator and helps to ensure the individual has
undergone some type of check rather than just printing off a
business card with private investigator printed on it.
4:32:09 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to the private investigator agency
certificate [AS 08.85.220], which allows investigators who hold
class A licenses and are primary employees of a business that is
licensed and bonded to hire a class B investigator and provide
training similar to an apprenticeship program. She further
referred to AS 08.85.230 to license renewal, which establishes
the process for license renewal, which is non-transferable.
4:32:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON referred to page 7 to the agency
certification. He asked whether consistency exists for
professions since some require errors and omissions insurance
while others do not.
MS. BLAISDELL explained that the errors and omissions insurance
is a requirement by almost every state. She suggested that
individuals on line could more specifically answer how the
process works.
4:33:50 PM
MS. BLAISDELL added that a provision for firearms training was
removed. She pointed out that a number of private investigators
requested firearms training; however, firearms are not normally
required to conduct business as a private investigator.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related his understanding that the bill
will set a higher standard for private investigators. He said
that anyone can carry a firearm in Alaska. He asked whether it
would be prudent to ask private investigators to have a
concealed carry permit or some type of training for any private
investigators who are carrying firearms.
MS. BLAISDELL answered that a concealed carry permit would be an
individual's personal choice. She related that putting a
section in the bill to require specific firearm training might
have a tendency to give a higher authority to a private
investigator, suggesting they should carry a firearm. She
further related her understanding that other state laws allow
concealed carry permits.
4:35:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested that perhaps the language might
require any private investigators carrying firearms to have
training. He offered his belief that if the goal of the bill is
an attempt to raise the standards for private investigators,
that higher standards should be required. He was unsure as to
whether his suggestion is a good idea but he would like the
sponsor to consider firearms training.
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON related his understanding that it was in
an earlier version of the bill but dropped out. He also shared
the concern that Representative Johnson expressed.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON noted that police who carry firearms must
have a higher standard. He did not want to take away the right
of any individual to carry firearms, but if individuals are on
the job as private investigators and are carrying weapons, that
these professionals are in a different situation.
4:36:53 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to the original version of HB 253 to AS
08.85.240, which read: "Firearms training. A licensee may not
carry a firearm while practicing as a private investigator until
the license[e] has completed firearms training acceptable to the
department." She was unsure whether DCCED would be the
appropriate department to determine the training; however,
perhaps something similar could be reinserted.
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT remarked that the DCCED is not the right
department to issue firearm permits.
4:37:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON commented that working as an attorney,
he would infrequently have the need to hire a private
investigator; however, he recalled that the private investigator
would typically be doing research or would follow someone with a
camera. He did not think that they had any intent to put
themselves in danger, but other private investigators may also
wish to be bodyguards. He suggested that perhaps there might be
a variety of purposes for private investigators.
4:38:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked whether this bill deals with
bodyguards. He did not think that was part of the duties of
private investigators although he was unsure.
CHAIR OLSON offered his belief that there is at least one
private investigator who works as a bodyguard in Anchorage.
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT was not sure if that person was a
private investigator.
4:39:05 PM
MS. BLAISDELL related that in speaking with a number of
investigators in the state and discussing endorsements for
private investigator's licensing that the profession could spill
over into other areas such as bail enforcement, fugitive
recovery, and executive protection. She said the focus was to
put into place a background check to ensure that private
investigators are not felons preying on people. She said that
specific endorsements could be considered in the future.
4:39:59 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.240, to confidentiality
language, which ensures that private investigator's information
is kept confidential and place of residence and other
information is not released to the public.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.250 to prohibited practices.
For example, violations could be for such things as wearing a
police uniform, flashing lights on a car, and making material
misstatements.
4:41:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER referred to page 10, line 4, to paragraph
(6) which prohibits the department from issuing a license to
someone who has solicited business for an attorney in return for
compensation. He asked whether that would constitute an ethics
violation.
MS. BLAISDELL related her understanding that if a private
investigator would solicit business that it would be similar to
the situation in which an attorney would be considered an
"ambulance chaser." She said that a private investigator cannot
solicit someone who is in a vulnerable state. She pointed out
that people can easily find licensed private investigators
themselves.
4:42:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER was unsure how one would solicit business
for an attorney.
MS. BLAISDELL answered this is more a code of conduct. It was
presumed that the private investigator would not solicit
business. She agreed that a private investigator could dig up
"dirt on a person" and generate business for an attorney to get
the individual out of trouble.
4:43:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT suggested that some states are more
sophisticated than Alaska. He recalled hearing of an incident
in which a young man was involved in a car accident. He
discovered that some people monitor police reports and send
letters to the individuals involved asking if anyone was hurt.
He surmised that something similar might occur in Alaska and the
middle man is just cut out.
4:44:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON asked whether a prohibited practice should
include the use of drones.
MS. BLAISDELL answered that the drones are operated by people
and if the person shouldn't be gathering information in that
way, including a certificate to fly and gather the information,
the person should not be gathering it. She offered her belief
that discussions on drones will crop up but a potential task
force could consider it.
REPRESENTATIVE HERRON asked whether the sponsor would consider
it as prohibited practice.
MS. BLAISDELL agreed to do so.
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER thought the devices were unmanned aerial
systems.
4:46:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT believed that the bill for unmanned
aerial aircraft also has provisions to not allow certain
aspects. He didn't recall, but he envisioned that anything
unlawful would be covered, whether the person was a private
investigator or police officer, or other professional.
MS. BLAISDELL clarified that either unmanned aircraft or drones
are considered to be universal terms.
4:47:06 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.260, immunity for
complainants, which provides immunity against damages resulting
from a complaint filed in good faith. For example, if a private
investigator has overstepped a personal boundary, if it is in
good faith, an action can't be taken. Private investigators
might be watching someone who doesn't want to be watched.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.270 to the administrative
procedures act, which allows the department to adopt
regulations.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON asked whether the immunity for
complainants was written a little broadly. For example, he
related a scenario in which the private investigator punches
someone - a tort of personal injury - or says something bad
publically, which would be a tort of defamation. He questioned
whether this seems to say that a private investigator could be
sued and he was unsure that was intended.
MS. BLAISDELL agreed it was somewhat broad.
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON suggested it might specify that a
private investigator was acting in the official capacity as a
private investigator.
CHAIR OLSON suggested it be tightened up.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 10, line 17, which references a
person licensed under this chapter, but she noted it doesn't say
while acting in that capacity, which could improve the language.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON concurred.
4:49:36 PM
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.300 to exemptions. She
explained that this statute refers to licensing requirements in
this chapter that do not apply to certain individuals. For
example, most of these exemptions apply to individuals who
conduct investigative work in their normal work, such as an
auditor investigating expenditures of a business, attorneys who
investigate on behalf of their clients, and collection agencies.
She recalled a request that a person conducting an investigation
to determine the cause of a fire, explosion, or accident should
also be exempt from the requirement to obtain a private
investigator's license. However, only about four individuals
conduct this type of investigation in Alaska and they are highly
qualified in investigating fires, she said.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to AS 08.85.310 to the definition
section. Additionally, [Sections 3, 4, and 5] provide the
technical and transitional provisions of the bill.
4:51:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT referred to the fiscal note for
approximately $60,000. He didn't anticipate much change with
the committee substitute, but assumed a new fiscal note will be
issued that relates to the committee substitute (CS). He
expressed concern that issuing identification cards and other
costs associated with the bill will have some fiscal impact.
CHAIR OLSON surmised DCCED will testify at the next hearing.
4:52:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked how many people are engaged as
private investigators.
MS. BLAISDELL answered that there are 139 business licenses for
private investigators, with 109 in Alaska and 30 out of state.
She recalled a retired police officer who is a bail bondsman
indicated that he has tripled his wages. She was unsure of the
salary, but perhaps the Department of Labor & Workforce
Development has figures.
4:53:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked whether a private investigator's
license is required to be a bail bondsman or to return someone
who has jumped bail.
MS. BLAISDELL answered no; however, private investigators do
conduct all kinds of tasks.
4:54:30 PM
H.H. "TRES" LEWIS III, Private investigator, Mendenhall
Investigations, Inc., stated that he has worked as a private
investigator in Alaska for 28 years. He was involved with the
first bill related to licensing private investigators in Alaska.
He said this bill has serious flaws and issues that could
significantly impact the profession. In response to a question,
he responded that he has held discussions with the prime
sponsors of HB 253.
MS. BLAISDELL referred to page 2, lines [21-22], the requirement
that a person may not be convicted of a misdemeanor. He stated
that he is aware of one private investigator in Alaska who
shoplifted a carton of cigarettes at the age of 18. That person
served 10 years in the U.S. Army as a military policeman and
later became an Alaska State Trooper; however, under the bill
since this individual previously committed a crime of dishonesty
the person would prohibited from being a private investigator.
He asked members to consider striking this language.
4:56:27 PM
MR. LEWIS stated that Alaska has a set of regulations considered
barrier crimes, which is used for many professions, including
nurses and janitors. He offered his belief that those
regulations, located in the Alaska administrative code (AAC)
Title 7, offers greater protection to the public than the simple
language of not having been convicted of a crime in the past 10
years. He offered his belief that other states have barrier of
10 years for felonies and 5 years for misdemeanors. He referred
to [page 3, line 2 to paragraph (5)], which relates to
dishonorable discharge from the armed forces. He said he is
aware of several people discharged with a dishonorable discharge
due to post-traumatic stress disorders. These soldiers came
home and have managed to put their lives back together; however,
these individuals could not serve as private investigators under
the bill and this does them a disservice. He expressed concern
about the multiple tier licensing system. He suggested one
license is all that is required.
4:57:37 PM
MR. LEWIS did not object to an "apprentice license," but the
person must have a letter that the private investigator is
willing to hire the person as an apprentice. He found that the
agency license would just be another avenue for the state to
charge fees, which is not necessary, especially since most
private investigators are solo practitioners.
MR. LEWIS expressed concern about the education requirements.
He said he was aware of a successful private investigator in
Anchorage who does not have a high school diploma or general
education development (GED). This person would not qualify
under the bill to be a private investigator. He expressed
concern about the requirement for the 1,500 hours or more of
billable hours required [on page 4, lines 5-11 of Version N].
He suggested some kind of formula is necessary. For example, if
someone worked in the public defender's office for 20 years, the
individual should receive credit. He surmised the 1,500
billable hours came out of the California law, but the majority
of the private investigators in Alaska have worked in the public
defender's agency, the Office of Public Advocacy, or law
enforcement. He considered himself an exception, since he was
mentored by an attorney who spent three years training him.
4:59:23 PM
MR. LEWIS expressed concerns about requirements for information
on the application. For example, he did not find his wife's
occupation to be relevant to his private investigator license.
MR. LEWIS expressed concern with the requirement for
identification card and weapons. He said that the ID card is
dangerous since the public may interpret that the investigator
has some caliber of law enforcement. Instead, he suggested that
private investigator's be required to place their license number
on a business card. Further, the state could list all private
investigators on the state's website so the public can determine
whether the person is a legitimate private investigator. He
said that in 28 years he has never had the need for a firearm.
In fact, he emphasized that it should be a prohibited act for a
private investigator to carry a firearm since it, again, would
lead the public into thinking the private investigator is some
sort of law enforcement officer. He objected to the bonding
requirement since he found $100,000 ridiculously low. He
reported that he could obtain a $1,000,000 policy as an unarmed
private investigator for $800 per year. He could not find
anyone in Alaska would issue a corporate bond in Alaska.
5:01:29 PM
REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPHSON asked whether private investigators
want this licensure.
MR. LEWIS answered that some people do not want it. He offered
his belief that "the absolute best of all worlds" would be to
require private investigators to be registered, including
listing their names, addresses, telephone number, and insurance
policy. He suggested confirmation that the person has not been
convicted of a felony or misdemeanor in the past 10 years, and
that the private investigator's license was issued by the state.
He said this type of registration would be similar to the method
Colorado uses, which is a simple process, but would still offer
a greater level of protection to the citizens of Alaska.
CHAIR OLSON noted that public comment will remain open.
[HB 253 was held over.]
5:02:29 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
5:02 p.m.
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