Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/12/2000 03:25 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                          
                         April 12, 2000                                                                                         
                            3:25 p.m.                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman                                                                                        
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chairman                                                                                     
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Tom Brice                                                                                                        
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
Representative Jerry Sanders                                                                                                    
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 177(L&C)                                                                                                 
"An Act relating  to insurance trade practices;  and providing for                                                              
an effective date."                                                                                                             
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 177(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                 
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 34(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An Act  relating to tattooing,  body piercing, and  ear piercing;                                                              
relating to  other occupations regulated  by the Board  of Barbers                                                              
and  Hairdressers;  relating  to  fees  charged by  the  Board  of                                                              
Barbers and Hairdressers; and providing for an effective date."                                                                 
     - MOVED HCS CSSB 34(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
HOUSE BILL NO. 121                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  patients'   rights  under  a  health  care                                                              
insurance  plan or contract  providing coverage  for dental  care,                                                              
and  prohibiting   certain  practices  by  health   care  insurers                                                              
relating to dental care."                                                                                                       
     - MOVED CSHB 121(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 297(L&C) am                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  the  licensing  of  chiropractors  and  to                                                              
disciplinary actions against chiropractors."                                                                                    
     - MOVED CSSB 297(L&C) am OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
BILL: SB 177                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: INSURANCE TRADE PRACTICES & ACTS                                                                                   
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 5/16/99      1517     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/16/99      1517     (S)  L&C                                                                                                 
 1/18/00               (S)  L&C AT  1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                           
 1/18/00               (S)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 1/18/00               (S)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 2/29/00               (S)  L&C AT  1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                           
 2/29/00               (S)  Moved CS(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                      
 2/29/00               (S)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 3/01/00               (S)  RLS AT 11:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 3/01/00               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 3/01/00      2476     (S)  L&C RPT  CS  1DP 3NR 1AM SAME TITLE                                                                 
 3/01/00      2476     (S)  NR: MACKIE, TIM KELLY, HOFFMAN;                                                                     
 3/01/00      2476     (S)  DP: DONLEY; AM: LEMAN                                                                               
 3/01/00      2476     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                                                             
 3/22/00      2692     (S)  RLS TO CALENDAR AND 1 AM 03/22/00                                                                   
 3/22/00      2693     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 3/22/00      2693     (S)  L&C CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                         
 3/22/00      2693     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                                                                      
 3/22/00      2693     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 177(L&C)                                                                   
 3/22/00      2693     (S)  PASSED Y19 N1                                                                                       
 3/22/00      2694     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 3/22/00      2697     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 3/23/00      2661     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 3/23/00      2662     (H)  L&C, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 4/10/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 4/10/00               (H)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 4/10/00               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 4/12/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
BILL: SB  34                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BD OF BARBERS ETC/TATOOS; BODY PIERCING                                                                            
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 1/21/99        49     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 1/21/99        49     (S)  L&C, FIN                                                                                            
 4/22/99               (S)  L&C AT  1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                           
 4/22/99               (S)  MOVED CS(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                      
 4/22/99               (S)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 4/23/99      1061     (S)  L&C RPT  CS  3DP 1NR NEW TITLE                                                                      
 4/23/99      1061     (S)  DP: MACKIE, HOFFMAN, LEMAN; NR:                                                                     
 4/23/99      1061     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DEC)                                                                              
 3/21/00               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 3/21/00               (S)  Heard & Held                                                                                        
 3/31/00               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 3/31/00               (S)  Moved CS(Fin) Out of Committee                                                                      
 3/31/00               (S)  RLS AT 12:00 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 3/31/00               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 3/31/00      2812     (S)  FIN RPT CS 3DP 1DNP 3NR NEW TITLE                                                                   
 3/31/00      2812     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, PHILLIPS, LEMAN;                                                                     
 3/31/00      2812     (S)  DNP: GREEN; NR: PARNELL, PETE KELLY,                                                                
 3/31/00      2812     (S)  WILKEN                                                                                              
 4/03/00      2838     (S)  FISCAL NOTES (DEC, DCED)                                                                            
 4/04/00      2856     (S)  RLS TO CALENDAR  04/04/00                                                                           
 4/04/00      2857     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 4/04/00      2858     (S)  FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                         
 4/04/00      2858     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                                                                      
 4/04/00      2858     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 34(FIN)                                                                   
 4/04/00      2858     (S)  PASSED Y15 N4 E1                                                                                    
 4/04/00      2859     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 4/04/00      2859     (S)  TAYLOR NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                    
 4/05/00      2887     (S)  RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING                                                                   
 4/05/00      2888     (S)  PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y18 N1 A1                                                                 
 4/05/00      2888     (S)  EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                                                                   
 4/05/00      2888     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 4/06/00      2884     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 4/06/00      2885     (H)  L&C, FIN                                                                                            
 4/12/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
BILL: HB 121                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: DENTAL CARE INSURANCE                                                                                              
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/03/99       341     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/03/99       342     (H)  L&C, FIN                                                                                            
 3/19/99               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 3/19/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 3/19/99               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 3/24/99               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 3/24/99               (H)  FAILED TO MOVE OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                     
 3/24/99               (H)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 1/26/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 1/26/00               (H)  <Bill Hearing Canceled>                                                                             
 4/12/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
BILL: SB 297                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF CHIROPRACTIC EXAMINERS                                                                                    
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/27/00      2746     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 3/27/00      2746     (S)  L&C                                                                                                 
 4/04/00               (S)  L&C AT  1:30 PM BELTZ 211                                                                           
 4/04/00               (S)  Moved CS(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                      
 4/04/00               (S)  MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                         
 4/05/00               (S)  RLS AT 11:30 AM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 4/05/00               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 4/05/00      2871     (S)  L&C RPT CS 4DP NEW TITLE                                                                            
 4/05/00      2871     (S)  DP: MACKIE, TIM KELLY, LEMAN, HOFFMAN                                                               
 4/05/00      2871     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                                                             
 4/06/00      2904     (S)  RLS TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 04/06/00                                                                   
 4/06/00      2906     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 4/06/00      2906     (S)  L&C CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                         
 4/06/00      2906     (S)  AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                        
 4/06/00      2906     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                                                                      
 4/06/00      2907     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 297(L&C) AM                                                               
 4/06/00      2907     (S)  PASSED Y20 N-                                                                                       
 4/06/00      2909     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 4/07/00      2909     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 4/07/00      2909     (H)  L&C                                                                                                 
 4/12/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY                                                                                                             
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 508                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of SB 177, Version K.                                                                 
SENATOR JOHNNY ELLIS                                                                                                            
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 9                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of SB 34, Version V.                                                                  
JANICE ADAIR, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Environmental Health                                                                                                
Department of Environmental Conservation                                                                                        
555 Cordova Street                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 34, Version V.                                                                             
DAVID LLOYD                                                                                                                     
Alaska Hepatitis C Coalition                                                                                                    
P.O. Box 3372                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99510                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 34, Version V.                                                                             
GAIL MCCANN, Owner/Operator                                                                                                     
Electrolysis Clinic                                                                                                             
532 Lee Drive                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on SB 34, Version V.                                                                             
CATHERINE REARDON, Director                                                                                                     
Division of Occupational Licensing                                                                                              
Department of Community and Economic Development                                                                                
P.O. Box 110806                                                                                                                 
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0806                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on SB 34, Version V and                                                                 
testified on CSSB 297(L&C) am.                                                                                                  
JANET SEITZ, Staff                                                                                                              
     to Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 24                                                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on SB 34, Version V.                                                                    
PATRICIA SWENSON, Staff                                                                                                         
   to Representative Con Bunde                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 501                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 121 on behalf of sponsor.                                                                     
SHARON CLARK, Staff                                                                                                             
     to Senator Mike Miller                                                                                                     
Capitol Building, Room 119                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Read sponsor statement for CSSB 297(L&C) am.                                                               
DR. LOREN MORGAN, President                                                                                                     
Alaska Chiropractic Society                                                                                                     
541 West Thirty-sixth Street                                                                                                    
Anchorage, Alaska 99524                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 297(L&C) am.                                                                             
MITCH GRAVO, Lobbyist                                                                                                           
Alaska Chiropractic Society                                                                                                     
170 Botanical Circle                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 297(L&C) am.                                                                             
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-47, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  NORMAN  ROKEBERG called  the  House Labor  and  Commerce                                                              
Standing Committee meeting to order  at 3:25 p.m.  Members present                                                              
at  the  call to  order  were  Representatives  Rokeberg,  Halcro,                                                              
Harris and Brice.   Representatives Murkowski, Cissna  and Sanders                                                              
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
SB 177-INSURANCE TRADE PRACTICES & ACTS                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  announced the first order of  business would be                                                              
CS FOR  SENATE BILL  NO. 177(L&C), "An  Act relating  to insurance                                                              
trade practices; and providing for an effective date."                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO  made  a   motion  to  adopt  the  proposed                                                              
committee substitute (CS), Version  K [1-LS0902\K, Ford, 4/11/00],                                                              
as a work draft.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                  
Number 0102                                                                                                                     
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY  came forward to testify as the  sponsor of SB
177, Version K.   He stated that he does support  Version K of the                                                              
bill.  There are  two changes in the bill.  The  first changes the                                                              
standard for a  third-party claimant.  This change  occurs on page                                                              
3, lines 3 through 6, and reads:                                                                                                
          (B) a third-party claimant regarding a claim in                                                                   
     which  liability  is  not  at   issue  to  litigate  for                                                               
     recovery of an  amount due under an insurance  policy by                                                               
     offering  an  amount that  does  not have  a  reasonable                                                               
     basis in law and fact [THOSE INSUREDS];                                                                                
SENATOR  DONLEY  explained  that   it  is  a  different  standard,                                                              
suggested by  representatives in  the industry,  who wanted  it to                                                              
also apply to a first-party [claimant].   However, he supports its                                                              
applying to  a third-party claimant,  the change made  [in Version                                                              
He indicated  the second  change occurs in  Section 6,  which adds                                                              
"or imply" on page 3, line 29.  Section 6 now reads:                                                                            
     (b)   The provisions  of this section  do not create  or                                                                   
     imply a private cause of action  for a violation of this                                                                   
SENATOR DONLEY commented,  "We all agree that we're  not trying to                                                              
create a private cause of action by any of these changes."                                                                      
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG pointed  out that  SB 177,  Version K, has  two                                                              
further  committees of  referral, and  he would  like to move  the                                                              
bill out of committee.                                                                                                          
Number 0290                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  made a motion to move the  proposed House CS                                                              
for  SB  177,   Version  K,  out  of  committee   with  individual                                                              
recommendations and the attached fiscal note.                                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG objected  for the  purpose of  discussion.   He                                                              
said he had asked the commissioner  of the Department of Community                                                              
and  Economic   Development  to  draft  some   language  regarding                                                              
"sideboards on the single-act investigation."   Due to the limited                                                              
time,  he indicated  he  would  take the  issue  up  in the  House                                                              
Judiciary Standing Committee.  He withdrew his objection.                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE   HALCRO   also  objected   for   the  purpose   of                                                              
discussion.  He said:                                                                                                           
     I know  the hour is  late, and the  days in the  session                                                                   
     are late, but,  ... like I said yesterday  on the floor,                                                                   
     I've got  a real hard time  when we put these  things in                                                                   
     the laundry  chute and  let them go,  and we don't  have                                                                   
     time to digest before they move out of committee.                                                                          
     And it's becoming  increasingly on a regular  basis that                                                                   
     we do that in this committee,  and I just have some real                                                                   
     hard times with that.  I'd like  to spend some more time                                                                   
     on this bill.                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  restated that the bill has  two more committees                                                              
of referral.                                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said he understands,  but he does not sit on                                                              
either of those two committees.  He withdrew his objection.                                                                     
[There being  no further objection,  HCS CSSB 177(L&C)  moved from                                                              
the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.]                                                                               
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  called an at-ease at  3:34 p.m.  He  called the                                                              
meeting back to order at 3:37 p.m.                                                                                              
SB 34-BD OF BARBERS ETC/TATOOS; BODY PIERCING                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  announced the next  order of business  would be                                                              
CS FOR  SENATE BILL  NO. 34(FIN), "An  Act relating to  tattooing,                                                              
body piercing,  and ear  piercing; relating  to other  occupations                                                              
regulated by  the Board of  Barbers and Hairdressers;  relating to                                                              
fees  charged  by  the Board  of  Barbers  and  Hairdressers;  and                                                              
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
Number 0453                                                                                                                     
SENATOR JOHNNY  ELLIS came  forward to testify  as the  sponsor of                                                              
CSSB  34(FIN).   He said  he would  make  some brief  introductory                                                              
remarks  and  then  cover  the  highlights  of  the  new  proposed                                                              
committee substitute (CS).                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  made a motion to adopt the  proposed CS for                                                              
SB 34, Version  V [1-LS0279\V, Lauterbach, 4/12/00].   There being                                                              
no objection, SB 34, Version V, was adopted.                                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS explained:                                                                                                        
     A constituent  of mine  came to me.   She's a  mother of                                                                   
     two  then-15-year-old girls,  and she  was horrified  to                                                                   
     learn that her daughters had  received body piercings in                                                                   
     what  were described  to me as  very unprofessional  and                                                                   
     unsanitary conditions.  Some  serious infections ensued.                                                                   
     It  was a  crisis within  this family  and, needless  to                                                                   
     say, the parents were outraged.                                                                                            
     I was  disturbed and frustrated  to find that  there was                                                                   
     really no  recourse.   We're one of  the last states  in                                                                   
     the Union  to have  any health  and safety standards  or                                                                   
     licensure procedure  in place for this  growing industry                                                                   
     of body art;  body piercing and tattooing.   We have, in                                                                   
     the work here, taken into account  the health and safety                                                                   
     issues, the transmission of  HIV [Human Immunodeficiency                                                                   
     Virus],  hepatitis,  syphilis,   other  infections  that                                                                   
     should be of concern to us all.                                                                                            
     We've  taken our guidance  in regulating  the body  arts                                                                   
     from  the National  Environmental  Health  Association's                                                                   
     Body Art  Model Code  and Guidelines.   So, we've  taken                                                                   
     the  best  from  other states  and  from  this  national                                                                   
     organization  to avoid  some of the  mistakes that  have                                                                   
     been  made  elsewhere.    We're  adopting  the  standard                                                                   
     procedure for licensure and regulation here.                                                                               
     We  handle that  in our  state for  the professions  and                                                                   
     vocations   through   the   Division   of   Occupational                                                                   
     Licensing  to license practitioners  and shop owners  to                                                                   
     ensure that  they have the  knowledge and good  practice                                                                   
     of  sanitation,  aseptic techniques,  sterilization  and                                                                   
     aftercare procedures to prevent  transmission of disease                                                                   
     or other injury to the consumer.                                                                                           
     We're  also using  the standard practice  of having  the                                                                   
     Division  of Environmental  Health  regulate the  proper                                                                   
     sterilization  of   equipment  and  inspection   of  the                                                                   
     licensed facilities.   And, again, Alaska is  one of the                                                                   
     last  states to  address  this important  public  health                                                                   
     issue.   In fact, there are  some good operators  in our                                                                   
     state  and  there  are some  bad  operators,  and  we're                                                                   
     interested  in making  sure  that the  public health  is                                                                   
Number 0654                                                                                                                     
     Now,  for  a  quick  summary of  the  changes.  ...  I'm                                                                   
     skipping around a bit, but there  are some requests from                                                                   
     the  Division of Occupational  Licensing  that are of  a                                                                   
     technical  nature and  housekeeping nature  that can  be                                                                   
     explained by the division director.                                                                                        
     There are also changes here  in the committee substitute                                                                   
     [Version V] that  were requested by the industry.   I'll                                                                   
     mention  one  specific  example.   There's  a  woman  in                                                                   
     Fairbanks  who heard  about  this bill.   She  practices                                                                   
     what  we're calling  permanent  coloring.   Some  people                                                                   
     have referred  to that  as cosmetic  tattooing.  It's  a                                                                   
     growing  thing in our  country.   There's one person  we                                                                   
     know of in Alaska that practices  this, and without this                                                                   
     committee substitute, she would  be operating outside of                                                                   
     the law.  So, permanent coloring  referenced here in the                                                                   
     CS relates  to the experience in Oregon,  their statutes                                                                   
     that have  been received  very well  for the license  of                                                                   
     permanent coloring as part of body arts.                                                                                   
     There also  were some other  industry requests  from the                                                                   
     legitimate   operators   in   terms  of   training   and                                                                   
     apprenticeships.   That's a complicated issue;  how long                                                                   
     people   should  apprentice   for   body  piercing   and                                                                   
     tattooing  and we're  leaving that  up to  the board  to                                                                   
     decide the  correct number of hours for  those different                                                                   
     situations.  The industry also  wants to be able to hold                                                                   
     conventions, or  get-togethers, where they talk  to each                                                                   
     other about  the best practices  in terms of  sanitation                                                                   
     and  other considerations,  and we  wanted to make  sure                                                                   
     that  they,   the  folks  who   get  together   for  the                                                                   
     conventions,  are  licensed and  that  the premises  are                                                                   
     sanitary  for  these  get  togethers  of  folks  in  the                                                                   
     There  was  also  an  industry  request  to  modify  the                                                                   
     definition  of  tattoo,  and we've  taken  the  standard                                                                   
     definition  there,   as  well.    So,  with   that,  Mr.                                                                   
     Chairman,  I do  have a staff  member with  me who's  an                                                                   
     expert in  these details  and, again, Catherine  Reardon                                                                   
     is  here from  the Division  of Occupational  Licensing,                                                                   
     and   I  know   there's   a  representative   from   DEC                                                                   
     [Department of Environmental Conservation].                                                                                
Number 0789                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  asked what  the  difference is  between                                                              
tattooing  and permanent  coloring.  She  wondered, "They're  both                                                              
through injection or through a needle, aren't they?"                                                                            
SENATOR ELLIS responded that they  are.  The cosmetic tattooing is                                                              
being  referred to  as  permanent  coloring, but  it  is the  same                                                              
procedure as tattooing.  Permanent  coloring entails permanent eye                                                              
lining, eyebrows, blush, etcetera.                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO wondered:                                                                                                 
     Senator  Ellis,  going  through   the  Senate  committee                                                                   
     meeting minutes, there was a  question about creating an                                                                   
     "under 18,  you had to get  permission."  Was  there any                                                                   
     further discussion on that?                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  indicated there  were some  folks concerned,  and a                                                              
number  of suggestions  were incorporated  into  the final  Senate                                                              
version of  the bill.  One  of those concerns dealt  with parental                                                              
permission  to  do body  piercing  and  tattooing.   The  national                                                              
industry standard was adopted, which  states that no one under the                                                              
age of  18 can be  tattooed because it  is a permanent  procedure.                                                              
He explained:                                                                                                                   
     It's a  permanent situation,  and the standard  industry                                                                   
     practice says no one under 18  is tattooed by legitimate                                                                   
     operators  in   our  state  today.     The  illegitimate                                                                   
     operators  do tattoo  people under  18, and that's  what                                                                   
     led to the outraged parents.                                                                                               
SENATOR ELLIS said body piercing  is a serious procedure, as well,                                                              
but it is not permanent.  People  under the age of 18 can be body-                                                              
pierced with the permission of their  parents.  People between the                                                              
ages  of 15  and 18  can, in  the presence  of a  parent or  legal                                                              
guardian,  receive a body  piercing.   Under the  age of  15, body                                                              
piercing is not allowed.  Currently,  the largest tattoo artist in                                                              
Anchorage,  Larry's Tattoo,  tattoos  over 10,000  people a  year.                                                              
The owner of  Larry's Tattoo has his employees  licensed in Hawaii                                                              
because  he is  committed to  high industry  standards and  public                                                              
Number 0988                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  asked, "When I was younger,  we would go                                                              
over to somebody's  house and take  a raw potato and a  needle and                                                              
pierce your girlfriend's ear.  What  does that do to those slumber                                                              
SENATOR  ELLIS said  that is an  excellent question.   People  are                                                              
being allowed  to continue to do  the ear piercings.   Piercing of                                                              
the lobe  and outer cartilage  of the  ear continues to  be legal.                                                              
He added:                                                                                                                       
     The choice that  we've made here in this  legislation is                                                                   
     that there  are a limited number  of people who  do body                                                                   
     piercing in  Alaska, but there's literally  thousands of                                                                   
     retail  stores  and  jewelry  stores  that  do  the  ear                                                                   
     piercing  when you  buy jewelry at  their retail  outlet                                                                   
     across the  state. ... Those piercings are  usually done                                                                   
     with the guns.                                                                                                             
     We are giving  DEC the authority, on  a complaint-driven                                                                   
     basis, to inspect  those premises to make  sure that the                                                                   
     piercing  guns  are  sanitized  to a  certain  level  of                                                                   
     public health  standards.  But  if people want  to their                                                                   
     own  tattooing [piercing]  on their  ears, that  remains                                                                   
     legal.   It's sometimes called "hacking  and scratching"                                                                   
     when  people do  this  to themselves  and  it's not  for                                                                   
     profit.   That will continue  to be a legal  practice in                                                                   
     But with the  guns, we're not saying that  the folks who                                                                   
     operate the  guns in the retail  have to go  through the                                                                   
     apprenticeship process and be  licensed.  The gun has to                                                                   
     be  sanitized, and  DEC  can inspect  them  to see  that                                                                   
     they're clean, if there are any complaints that arise.                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  wondered if there is any  penalty if the                                                              
guns are not clean.                                                                                                             
SENATOR ELLIS  responded that DEC  will develop regulations  under                                                              
this legislation in order to cover those health standards.                                                                      
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said:                                                                                                         
     A  number of  us were  attending an  Anchorage caucus  a                                                                   
     month or so ago in Anchorage.   There was a witness that                                                                   
     brought this subject up to the  Anchorage caucus because                                                                   
     he was a sufferer of hepatitis  C.  He indicated that he                                                                   
     had contracted  the disease  from tattooing.   It really                                                                   
     hit  ... home  because I  have  a brother-in-law  that's                                                                   
     basically dying of hepatitis  C and the treatment is not                                                                   
     working. ... Do you have any comments on that?                                                                             
SENATOR ELLIS replied that it is  a very serious concern, which is                                                              
why the Alaska  Hepatitis C coalition  is in support of  this bill                                                              
[letter  included  in bill  packet].    Hepatitis  is one  of  the                                                              
biggest  concerns.     There   are  no   reported  cases   of  HIV                                                              
transmission  in Alaska.   He commented,  "The good operators  are                                                              
very  quick to  point  that out.    So, I  want  to protect  their                                                              
reputation."   He indicated this bill  will go a long way  to rein                                                              
in bad operators.                                                                                                               
Number 1218                                                                                                                     
JANICE  ADAIR,   Director,  Division   of  Environmental   Health,                                                              
Department   of   Environmental    Conservation,   testified   via                                                              
teleconference  from Anchorage.   She  said she  was available  to                                                              
respond to questions.                                                                                                           
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked  what the fiscal impact of  the bill is on                                                              
the Division of Environmental Health.                                                                                           
MS.  ADAIR replied  that there  would be  some additional  burden.                                                              
She said:                                                                                                                       
     The  fiscal  impacts will  be  paid  by ...  the  tattoo                                                                   
     artists  and the  body piercers.   So,  our fiscal  note                                                                   
     will  reflect  interagency  receipts.   I  neglected  to                                                                   
     include,  in the  last  fiscal note  I  did, some  minor                                                                   
     costs for ear  piercers.  The cost there is  going to be                                                                   
     associated   with  public   notice   and  just   getting                                                                   
     information  out to  what we  expect to  be hundreds  of                                                                   
     facilities  that pierce ears,  and the regulations  will                                                                   
     not be complicated. ...                                                                                                    
     Representative Murkowski, I  had my ears pierced exactly                                                                   
     that same way, with a potato  and a needle.  It won't be                                                                   
     complicated regulations,  but we do need to  really make                                                                   
     an effort  to make sure  those people who  are regulated                                                                   
     understand what the proposal will be.                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS wondered what the connection is between                                                                  
this bill and the environment.                                                                                                  
MS.  ADAIR  explained  that  DEC  deals  with  issues  related  to                                                              
environmental  health as well  as the  resource environment.   The                                                              
department  deals with  bacteria and  the kinds  of things  in the                                                              
environment that can affect public health.                                                                                      
Number 1343                                                                                                                     
DAVID LLOYD, Alaska Hepatitis C Coalition, testified via                                                                        
teleconference from Anchorage.  He stated:                                                                                      
     I'm  here today  on  behalf of  the  Alaska Hepatitis  C                                                                   
     Coalition.  We are a grassroots  organization [composed]                                                                   
     of people  infected with the  hepatitis C virus,  family                                                                   
     members   and  the  professionals   who  care   for  us.                                                                   
     Hepatitis   C  is   a  disease  that   is  at   epidemic                                                                   
     proportions  in  the  U.S.   There  is  no cure  and  no                                                                   
     vaccine.  It is conservatively  estimated that one in 55                                                                   
     people [has]  it.  That  translates to 11,000  Alaskans.                                                                   
     We are not  against tattoos but support a  public health                                                                   
     standard  that would decrease  the liklihood that  years                                                                   
     from now there'll be an outcry  to demand why we knew of                                                                   
     this disease yet did nothing to prevent its spread.                                                                        
     The   National   Centers  for   Disease   Control   have                                                                   
     established  the correlation  between  tattoos and  body                                                                   
     piercing  with   hepatitis  cases,  and  we   are  being                                                                   
     presented with  the means to bring Alaska  alongside the                                                                   
     other  states  that have  enacted  sets of  controls  to                                                                   
     protect their citizens in the  manner proposed by SB 34.                                                                   
     For instance, North Carolina's  legislation stipulates a                                                                   
     method  of infection  control in which  all human  blood                                                                   
     and bodily fluids  are treated as if they  were known to                                                                   
     be contaminated  with HIV and other infections  that can                                                                   
     be transmitted by blood.                                                                                                   
     Because the disease  may often have no symptoms  for the                                                                   
     first decade  or two, many  of the people  infected have                                                                   
     no  idea they  carry the  virus.   It  is currently  the                                                                   
     leading  indication  for liver  transplantation  in  the                                                                   
     United States, and each year  8,000 to 11,000 people die                                                                   
     from   HCV   [hepatitis  C   virus]   related   disease.                                                                   
     Unfortunately,  it  is  estimated  that  the  number  of                                                                   
     deaths will  triple over the  next two decades  as large                                                                   
     reservoirs of infected people become sicker.                                                                               
     As treatment outcomes improve,  however, experts predict                                                                   
     that we  have window of  opportunity to turn  those grim                                                                   
     statistics  around.   Some of  the  doctors I've  spoken                                                                   
     with about this  tell me the durability and  the ease of                                                                   
     transmission  of this virus  make HIV  look like a  weak                                                                   
     sister by  comparison.  Its means of  transmission cross                                                                   
     into every demographic segment  of the population.  Some                                                                   
     of these includes  sports and body building  through the                                                                   
     use  of  injectable steroids,  internasal  cocaine  use,                                                                   
     tattoos,  body piercing and  transfusions - until  1989,                                                                   
     the nation's  blood supply wasn't  even tested for  it -                                                                   
     as well  as IV [intravenous]  drug use.  So,  obviously,                                                                   
     this bill  will not  halt the spread  of hepatitis  C in                                                                   
     Alaska, but it is a start.                                                                                                 
     And as  a person who was  infected with the virus  at an                                                                   
     Anchorage tattoo  [parlor] in 1979 - which  I assumed to                                                                   
     be safe  because of  the license on  the wall -  I would                                                                   
     like to  applaud Representative Croft and  Senator Ellis                                                                   
     for  their  concern  with  the   health  and  safety  of                                                                   
Number 1523                                                                                                                     
GAIL MCCANN,  Owner/Operator, Electrolysis  Clinic, testified  via                                                              
teleconference from  Fairbanks.  She has been in  business for the                                                              
past 18 years.   Since 1991, she has been practicing  another form                                                              
of  tattooing  called  permanent  cosmetics.   It  is  essentially                                                              
tattooing the skin.   However, it has a totally  different outcome                                                              
and goal.  She said:                                                                                                            
     What I  do with permanent  cosmetics, there are  what we                                                                   
     call  glamour  applications,   which  have  to  do  with                                                                   
     enhancing the  eyebrows, eye liner, lip liner,  full lip                                                                   
     color, blush.  Then there's  another aspect of this that                                                                   
     deals with  reconstruction of  facial features  for, say                                                                   
     burn  survivors  and  people  that  are  afflicted  with                                                                   
     facial abnormalities and disfigurements.                                                                                   
     So, I  didn't know about  this bill until  just recently                                                                   
     and sometimes feel a little  unprepared for what's going                                                                   
     on  here, so  please bear  with me.   I do  want you  to                                                                   
     know, however,  that as a professional, I had  to go out                                                                   
     of state  to come back  with the pertinent  and accepted                                                                   
     credentials that  the industry has to  recognize, except                                                                   
     we are not offering them to people like me in Alaska.                                                                      
     So, we  do have to seek  outside  education  and testing                                                                   
     to show that  we are competent in our field.   (Indisc.)                                                                   
     plan was  to go to Oregon  and sit for the  state boards                                                                   
     so that, again,  I could show that I am  a qualified and                                                                   
     competent professional  in the application of  my skills                                                                   
     and knowledge for permanent cosmetics.                                                                                     
     I am glad to  see that SB 34 is out there  on the floor.                                                                   
     It does need  to be massaged and brought  up to standard                                                                   
     so that  not only is  it a bill  that would protect  the                                                                   
     public, but will also guarantee  that we are giving them                                                                   
     competent  applications  of  color  to  their  skin,  in                                                                   
     whatever realm we're doing it.                                                                                             
     So, I  am in total  support of SB 34.   I would  like to                                                                   
     see that  only qualified  professionals practice  any of                                                                   
     these devices,  the figurative tattooing, which  is what                                                                   
     you  would know  as traditional  tattooing, or  cosmetic                                                                   
     tattooing,   which  is  what   I  primarily  do,   which                                                                   
     technically   includes,   as   I   said,   the   glamour                                                                   
     applications, repigmentation and camouflaging.                                                                             
     Another  one of  the applications  for what  I do is  to                                                                   
     work with  women who have  had mastectomies who  are not                                                                   
     only   having  had   a   radical  mastectomy   but,   in                                                                   
     reconstruction, they no longer  have a nipple.  So, they                                                                   
     would  come to  see someone  like myself,  and I  would,                                                                   
     through implantation  of pigment, help to  normalize the                                                                   
     appearance of this individual.                                                                                             
     So, there  are many applications that maybe  you haven't                                                                   
     thought  about or  just weren't  aware of.   And I  hope                                                                   
     that  I've  enlightened you  to  the  point that  it  is                                                                   
     something that,  there definitely is an  image situation                                                                   
     here   that   needs  to   be   dealt  with.      Through                                                                   
     enlightenment and education  and information, we can let                                                                   
     people  know   what  they  should  be  looking   for  in                                                                   
     qualified  professionals, and  what they should  looking                                                                   
     for, in order  to not go to individuals that  don't fall                                                                   
     in that  realm.  I  hope to be  involved all the  way to                                                                   
     the  end with  this bill,  and certainly  would like  to                                                                   
     leave  myself  open for  any  questions that  you  might                                                                   
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked  if Ms. McCann is aware of  anyone else in                                                              
Alaska who performs permanent coloring.                                                                                         
Number 1710                                                                                                                     
MS.  MCCANN  answered  that there  are  other  people.   It  is  a                                                              
profession  that  is growing.    She said  it  seems  to her  that                                                              
electrologists,  like herself,  are  naturally transitioning  into                                                              
this area  and adding it to  their repertoire of services.   There                                                              
are other  people in  Alaska that  are practicing  what she  calls                                                              
permanent  cosmetic tattooing  or cosmetic  tattooing.  She  would                                                              
like to see this term changed in the bill.  She explained:                                                                      
     There's a difference between  the outcome in traditional                                                                   
     or figurative  tattooing versus what I do,  which is, by                                                                   
     our industry  standards, called  permanent cosmetics  or                                                                   
     cosmetic tattooing, not cosmetic  coloring.  I'd like to                                                                   
     just see  that wording changed from "cosmetic  coloring"                                                                   
     to   either    "permanent   cosmetics"    or   "cosmetic                                                                   
SENATOR ELLIS clarified:                                                                                                        
     I appreciate  the input,  and I know  my staff has  been                                                                   
     working  with this  practitioner  to come  up with  some                                                                   
     good  language.    We  chose to  take  what  Oregon  had                                                                   
     adopted  in  their  statutes,  the  permanent  coloring,                                                                   
     because there are a number of  things here that it could                                                                   
     be:  permanent cosmetics, permanent  makeup, interdermal                                                                   
     pigmentation,  or micropigmentation.    We thought  that                                                                   
     "permanent coloring"  was the more expansive,  inclusive                                                                   
     term that  covered those  things that this  practitioner                                                                   
     may do or  that some of the other practitioners  may do.                                                                   
     We  wanted   it  to  be  a  flexible,   all-encompassing                                                                   
     definition  and not  one so  specific  that it  wouldn't                                                                   
     incorporate  other folks  as body arts  move on  through                                                                   
     time here.                                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked whether there was consideration  of using                                                              
"permanent cosmetic coloring."                                                                                                  
SENATOR ELLIS said that is not the specific thing he considered.                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. McCann if using the term "permanent                                                                 
cosmetic coloring" would make her happier.                                                                                      
MS. MCCANN responded:                                                                                                           
     We could be a little more definitive,  I think. ... From                                                                   
     the state  of Kansas  they have a  very succinct  and, I                                                                   
     think, clear definition of what  figurative tattooing is                                                                   
     versus  cosmetic tattooing.   Cosmetic  tattooing is  to                                                                   
     include eyeliner,  eyebrows, lipliners, full  lip color,                                                                   
     repigmentation or camouflage.   So, that encompasses it,                                                                   
     I  think,   very  well,  rather  than   just  "tattooing                                                                   
     coloring,"  as  it  is  in  SB  34,  simply  because  my                                                                   
     industry has been in existence  for probably close to 15                                                                   
     to 20 years, and our industry  standards were describing                                                                   
     ...  having  it  recognizable,  ... to  go  with  either                                                                   
     "permanent cosmetics" or "cosmetic  tattooing."  Even in                                                                   
     the  phone   books  there   are  categories  under   the                                                                   
     definitions  that  I  just  mentioned.    I  think,  for                                                                   
     clarity's   sake  and  for   continuity  throughout   my                                                                   
     profession,  that  would  be   more  understandable  and                                                                   
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said, "I noticed, Senator, you have a license                                                                 
for permanent coloring and a license for tattooing, but you've                                                                  
got a joint definition.  Is it one license?"                                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS answered that it is one license.  There are two                                                                   
separate licenses for body piercing and tattooing.                                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. McCann if she does figurative                                                                       
MS. MCCANN replied yes.  She said there is a difference and                                                                     
     If  you wanted  to transfer  over and start  to do  what                                                                   
     they  call cosmetic  tattooing, if  you have not  gotten                                                                   
     the proper information about  the anatomy of the eye, et                                                                   
     cetera, it could  be a problem.  So,  cosmetic tattooing                                                                   
     takes  your  traditional  tattooing  techniques  into  a                                                                   
     different  realm,  because there's  just  a little  more                                                                   
     information  and education that  you would need  to know                                                                   
     to  be able  to  do cosmetic  tattooing  - although  the                                                                   
     application of  the skills and knowledge is  pretty much                                                                   
     the same, when  it comes to the practical  aspect of the                                                                   
     profession, both of them.                                                                                                  
     In other  words, we're not  using guns, ...  we're using                                                                   
     machines.   I'm using  the same  tattooing or  implanter                                                                   
     that  somebody  who's  doing   figurative  tattooing  is                                                                   
     using. ...  There are  a couple of  avenues that  can be                                                                   
     explored  here when it  comes to  the equipment that  we                                                                   
     use.   Basically,  we're  all doing  the  same thing  by                                                                   
     inserting pigment  into the  dermal layer of  the tissue                                                                   
     in the attempt to leave some permanent color there.                                                                        
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  wondered if  Ms. McCann's  testimony is  that a                                                              
person has  to have  more skill to  be a  permanent cosmetic  or a                                                              
cosmetic tattooing artist.  He also  wondered if the word "artist"                                                              
is correct.                                                                                                                     
MS. MCCANN stated that a person who  practices permanent cosmetics                                                              
is usually  called a technician or  practitioner.  She  said there                                                              
is certainly artistry involved.  She commented:                                                                                 
     As  far  as our  skills,  we  require the  same  skills;                                                                   
     however,  you  require  a  little   more  education  and                                                                   
     knowledge when you're going  into the eye areas, because                                                                   
     you haven't  learned about the  anatomy in your  regular                                                                   
     figurative or  traditional tattooing.  In  that respect,                                                                   
     it just requires  a little more knowledge,  which can be                                                                   
     easily attainable.                                                                                                         
SENATOR ELLIS wondered what the suggestion  is for the term of art                                                              
to be used.                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG answered that Ms.  McCann's suggestion is to use                                                              
"permanent cosmetics" or "cosmetic  tattooing".  He indicated that                                                              
he   earlier   asked  rhetorically   about   "permanent   cosmetic                                                              
coloring".  There are three terms  to choose from.  He said he was                                                              
a little  confused by the  definition of "tattooing  and permanent                                                              
coloring" on  page 12, lines  26 through 29.   He did not  think a                                                              
distinction had been made between the two definitions.                                                                          
Number 2052                                                                                                                     
SENATOR ELLIS  explained that there  is no difference in  the bill                                                              
between  the  licensing  requirements  because  they  are  similar                                                              
activities with the same health ramifications.  He said:                                                                        
     There would be an argument here  if we brought everybody                                                                   
     in about  who has  more training  in certain skills  and                                                                   
     the apprenticeship  requirement and  on and on.   That's                                                                   
     not really an argument that's very productive.                                                                             
SENATOR ELLIS specified  that his suggestion would  be to consider                                                              
adding "figurative  and cosmetic"  before "tattooing" on  page 14,                                                              
line 25,  of the  proposed CS.   He  wondered if  he could  have a                                                              
moment to discuss this with his staff.                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested having  Catherine Reardon come forward                                                              
and testify first.                                                                                                              
Number 2111                                                                                                                     
CATHERINE REARDON,  Director, Division of Occupational  Licensing,                                                              
Department of Community and Economic  Development, came forward to                                                              
answer questions on  SB 34, Version V.  She  indicated the sponsor                                                              
of the bill has  been working with her to make  all the necessary,                                                              
conforming changes.                                                                                                             
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked what the  barbers and hairdressers  think                                                              
about this.                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON explained that the Board  of Barbers and Hairdressers,                                                              
which  would  be  overseeing  this program,  voted  last  year  to                                                              
support the  concept.  The bill  puts one member of  the tattooing                                                              
and body piercing professions on  the board.  This will assist the                                                              
board in making good quality regulations.                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to page  2, subsection 2, which states:                                                              
     the department  shall establish fee levels  under (a) of                                                                   
     this section so that the total  amount of fees collected                                                                   
     by the Board  of Barbers and Hairdressers  approximately                                                                   
     equals  the total  regulatory costs  of the  department,                                                                   
     the   board,  and   the  Department   of   Environmental                                                                   
     Conservation  for  all  occupations   regulated  by  the                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  said  it  seems  that  a  whole  new  area  of                                                              
regulatory  responsibility of  DEC has  been added,  but that  the                                                              
board ends up paying for it.                                                                                                    
Number 2180                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  she does not think of it as  such a large thing.                                                              
She expects  a $5,400 fiscal  note from  DEC, which would  ask the                                                              
Division of Occupational  Licensing to "interagency  receipt" that                                                              
money over,  every year.   The purpose of  that money would  be to                                                              
fund  DEC's   basic  adoption   of  regulations  governing   these                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked, "How many  of these people do  you think                                                              
there are in this state?"                                                                                                       
MS. REARDON surmised that there are  10 to 25 establishments.  She                                                              
     It's mostly the regulation adoption  process - you know,                                                                   
     public noticing,  advertising, all that kind  of thing -                                                                   
     I think that  DEC's most concerned about.   And there is                                                                   
     precedent  for  this.    For  example,  we  "interagency                                                                   
     receipt"   construction   contractor    funds   to   the                                                                   
     Department  of Labor  for their  enforcement  activities                                                                   
     regarding  those professions  and electrical  mechanical                                                                   
     So, personally,  I think it  works well for DEC  to have                                                                   
     the responsibilities  to adopt the regulations  and this                                                                   
     is a  way of allowing  it to happen  and still  have the                                                                   
     costs  go  where  they  ought  to go  which  is  to  the                                                                   
     professions  involved.   This part  of DEC  is the  part                                                                   
     that does restaurant inspections,  other kinds of health                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG said  that is  what he  is worried  about.   He                                                              
     We see these bills all the time  here in this committee,                                                                   
     and  we've  got another  whole  entire  department  here                                                                   
     where  we're  taking  funds  to be  collected  from  the                                                                   
     licensees and  shipping them over to  another department                                                                   
     into their health  inspector area or whatever.   I'm not                                                                   
     sure I'm warming up to this idea here.                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  clarified  that she  would be concerned  if she  felt                                                              
that there were  going to be a "blank check and  ... there'd be no                                                              
limit  on what  I might  have  to take  out  of my  budget and  be                                                              
sending to my neighboring department."                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  interjected,  "It's  not coming  out  of  your                                                              
budget. It's coming out the fees of these people."                                                                              
MS.  REARDON  explained that  she  meant  out of  her  expenditure                                                              
authority.  She said:                                                                                                           
     When  I  send fees  to  another  agency, it  does  count                                                                   
     against  what  I'm spending.    So, I  feel  comfortable                                                                   
     because  what's in  the  fiscal note  is  that they  can                                                                   
     receive  $5,400.    They  can't  suddenly  bill  me  for                                                                   
     $20,000.  ... I'm sure  that if  there were any  concern                                                                   
     about how the  money was being used -- I  get audited on                                                                   
     my  fee-setting with  some frequency.    And so,  people                                                                   
     could look and  see that, yes, indeed, the  costs that I                                                                   
     was getting  billed and transferring the money  for were                                                                   
     related  to   adoption  of  the  regulations   for  body                                                                   
     piercing, tattooing and, probably, ear piercing.                                                                           
Number 2316                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  pointed out that  the present committee  has to                                                              
look at  licensure costs.   He  asked again  how many people  were                                                              
used to calculate the licensure fee.                                                                                            
MS. REARDON responded that she is  expecting 10 to 25 people.  She                                                              
referred  to page  2,  Section 2,  and  indicated  this is  almost                                                              
identical language  to that in the architects,  engineers and Land                                                              
Surveyors  statute right  now.   This language  says that  revenue                                                              
from the  entire board  area must  cover regulatory  costs  of the                                                              
entire board area rather than its  being occupation-by-occupation.                                                              
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  asked, "Why  do  the  body piercers  that  are                                                              
regulated have to  pay for the regulation of the  unregulated body                                                              
MS. REARDON  said Ms. Adair could  respond to that question.   She                                                              
said she understood  the $5,400 was primarily for  the adoption of                                                              
the regulations.                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS interjected:                                                                                                      
     The  retail  locations  that  have the  guns,  that's  a                                                                   
     complaint-drive system.   DEC, ... they'll  do an annual                                                                   
     inspection  of the body piercing  and tattoo  shops, but                                                                   
     they won't go out to every retail  operation and inspect                                                                   
     those annually, just if a parent  complains about [that]                                                                   
     they didn't  a disinfectant of  the gun before  or after                                                                   
     the  procedure, they  could complain  to DEC.   And  DEC                                                                   
     would have the  authority to check it out  and make sure                                                                   
     they're  cleaning their  equipment.   So,  that was  the                                                                   
     balance we tried to make between  the licensed shops and                                                                   
     the places using the guns to pierce ears.                                                                                  
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  referred  to  the  fiscal note  from  DEC  for                                                              
MS. REARDON said she believes there  will probably be a new fiscal                                                              
note for $5,400 if Version V passes out of the committee.                                                                       
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  stated that he  has a concern about  having the                                                              
licensees pay for  "stuff that's not in their area".   He wondered                                                              
if he is mistaken.                                                                                                              
SENATOR ELLIS said that argument can be made, but added:                                                                        
     I  would  make  the  argument  that  the  public  health                                                                   
     concerns here  are great - and  I know we share  those -                                                                   
     that the relative  amount of money is tiny  and that the                                                                   
     good  operators, the  legitimate folks  in the  industry                                                                   
     that have come  to us asking for -- it's  not very often                                                                   
     that  you get  industries coming  forward and  [saying],                                                                   
     "We want  to be licensed  and regulated because  there's                                                                   
     some  bad  operators  out  there."   I  think  the  good                                                                   
     operators feel  like they are tarnished by  the bad guys                                                                   
     that are  infecting people, and  it gives a taint  and a                                                                   
     negative impression to the public  of tattooing and body                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG commented  that the  first fiscal  note is  for                                                              
$2,000 and  states that  there will be  annual inspections  of the                                                              
tattooing establishments.                                                                                                       
[Senator  Ellis's response  was not  on tape because  of the  tape                                                              
TAPE 00-47, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0005                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  stated, "If you're  particularly concerned  about the                                                              
ear piercing portion ...."                                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG interjected and  said he is trying to look after                                                              
licensees.  He does  not think they should be paying  for any more                                                              
than what  they are  already responsible  for in  their area.   He                                                              
said, "They  shouldn't be  paying for the  DEC to inspect  jewelry                                                              
shops that are not  under their licensure."  He wondered  if he is                                                              
on the right track.                                                                                                             
MS.  ADAIR said  she  had a  question  for Ms.  Reardon  regarding                                                              
whether or not the fees for adopting  the ear piercing regulations                                                              
should be  shown as  interagency receipts or  general funds.   She                                                              
     For the same questions that  you're asking right now, we                                                                   
     do not  intend to inspect ear  piercing places.   We may                                                                   
     get  complaints about  them, and  we will  follow up  on                                                                   
     those complaints as we can.   It is a low-risk activity.                                                                   
     There is no  known epidemiological risks that  have been                                                                   
     identified with  ear piercing, even though  there can be                                                                   
     some  blood that  occurs when  ears are  pierced.   It's                                                                   
     just a variable-risk operation.                                                                                            
     It's not the  same as body piercing.  It's  not the same                                                                   
     as tattooing.  This bill does  require that we do annual                                                                   
     inspections of  body piercers and tattoo shops,  and our                                                                   
     fiscal  note  reflects  the  costs to  do  those  annual                                                                   
     inspections.  I have gone through  the Yellow Pages here                                                                   
     in  Anchorage  and  have  found   about  five  permanent                                                                   
     cosmetic  places listed in  the Yellow  Pages.  So,  our                                                                   
     fiscal note  will change as a  result of that.   We will                                                                   
     have  to  add ...  some  kind  of money  for  developing                                                                   
     regulations for ear piercing.                                                                                              
Number 0091                                                                                                                     
SENATOR ELLIS  indicated the  easy way  to address the  chairman's                                                              
concerns  and   the  $2,000  of   extra  cost  for   adopting  the                                                              
regulations would  be to eliminate  the requirement that  DEC have                                                              
regulations  for the  exclusive ear  piercing shops  that use  the                                                              
guns.  They  would still be  on a complaint-driven basis,  and DEC                                                              
could go in and inspect those facilities  for sanitary conditions,                                                              
but would not be required to adopt  these regulations.  He stated:                                                              
     The way I got into this was  the tattoo artists believed                                                                   
     that  the  guns are  not  routinely sanitized  to  their                                                                   
     standards, which  is to use an autoclave,  which doesn't                                                                   
     exist in most  retail stores or jewelry shops,  and that                                                                   
     those should  be banned.  I  thought that was  a drastic                                                                   
     step that would upset a lot  of people and wasn't really                                                                   
     necessary based on the health  risk, and that we thought                                                                   
     DEC adopting regulations was  the way to go.  But we can                                                                   
     address your  concern by taking out that  requirement of                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked where that is referenced in the bill.                                                                
MS. REARDON  pointed out that it  appears on page 13, line  22, of                                                              
Version V.                                                                                                                      
SENATOR ELLIS said "ear piercing"  would be eliminated on page 13,                                                              
line 22.  He  stated, "This would reduce things by  a few thousand                                                              
dollars and address the concern of the chairman."                                                                               
MS. REARDON commented  that a conforming amendment  should be made                                                              
on page 2, line 21, by removing "ear piercing".                                                                                 
Number 0162                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked Ms. Adair if DEC is  presently inspecting                                                              
barber shops and hairdressers.                                                                                                  
MS. ADAIR  replied that DEC  does have a statutory  responsibility                                                              
for having regulations  for those type of shops.   Only complaints                                                              
are responded  to, and a  plan is signed  off on, for  the initial                                                              
occupational license.                                                                                                           
SENATOR ELLIS stated:                                                                                                           
     That's a pretty  easy way that I don't think  would be a                                                                   
     problem to address  your concern.  I do know  that we at                                                                   
     some point want to go back to  Ms. McCann's concern, and                                                                   
     I have a proposal for that, as well.                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked Ms. Reardon  what the biennially  license                                                              
fee would be.                                                                                                                   
MS. REARDON responded:                                                                                                          
     It'll be the same biennial license  fee for all of these                                                                   
     barbers,  hairdressers, all  of this.   And there'll  be                                                                   
     3,000 people  we're talking in  that area.  So,  I don't                                                                   
     expect it to  make a very substantial difference  in the                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG   asked  what   the  "ramp-up"  costs   of  the                                                              
regulations are for the Division of Occupational Licensing.                                                                     
MS. REARDON wondered if he meant the amount of the fiscal note.                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied yes.                                                                                                  
MS. REARDON  responded that the  division doesn't  usually include                                                              
the cost of writing regulations in its fiscal notes.                                                                            
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  asked, "So,  you're  just going  to  basically                                                              
charged these people what the barbers  and hairdressers are paying                                                              
MS.  REARDON  answered  affirmatively.   In  further  response  to                                                              
Chairman Rokeberg,  she said  it is $125  for a two-year  license.                                                              
There are 3,800 licensees, which  is one reason the costs are low.                                                              
The amount  of $3,000  is being  requested to  cover the  costs of                                                              
printing,   postage,   communications   and  advertising.      The                                                              
regulation  writing would be  "buried in  there."  The  first-year                                                              
cost being asked  for is $15,100.  She said, "It  increases as DEC                                                              
changes, then  mine will  be adjusted.   So, now, I'd  probably be                                                              
asking for $18,500."                                                                                                            
Number 0281                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  referred to  Section 4, on page  3, line                                                              
17.  She noted that this section  gives the board the authority to                                                              
develop  oral and  written instructions.   She  wondered what  the                                                              
benefit is of having oral instruction.                                                                                          
SENATOR ELLIS said he believes this  language was taken from other                                                              
states.   It  is  pretty standard  language  in  other states  and                                                              
allows the board to develop the best  ways to provide information.                                                              
He added, "It's flexible language  for it to be an oral or written                                                              
instructions.   I  suppose we  could tighten  it down,  if you  so                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI responded:                                                                                             
     Every time I  see the word "oral" instruction  or giving                                                                   
     somebody  the leeway  to  not put  it  down in  writing,                                                                   
     there's  room for  miscommunication,  misinterpretation,                                                                   
     on   down  the  road   because  you   didn't  have   the                                                                   
     requirement that it be put in writing.                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said  she believes these instructions  are the notices                                                              
and instructions  that the  practitioners need  to be posting  and                                                              
giving to their clients.                                                                                                        
Number 0389                                                                                                                     
MR. LLOYD noted that quite often  a person will go 20 years before                                                              
the disease manifests  any symptoms.  There is  a longevity factor                                                              
of the virus also.  He explained:                                                                                               
       Outside of the human body, most viruses die almost                                                                       
     immediately, whereas this virus can live for up to five                                                                    
     days.   It  has a  dormant state  in dried  blood.   The                                                                   
     point is,  is that the inside  of the tattooist  guns or                                                                   
     the ear  piercing equipment could possibly  be infected.                                                                   
     There is  some spore testing equipment  that's available                                                                   
     through the  medical community, and I was  wondering if,                                                                   
     perhaps, the health department  would be the appropriate                                                                   
     community to address that concern.                                                                                         
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  said he agrees  with Mr. Lloyd's comments.   He                                                              
stated, "You should leave the regulatory  DEC on the ear piercing,                                                              
but don't charge  the licensees for  it.  Can you do  that?  Would                                                              
that create another separate GF [general fund] fiscal note?"                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS replied yes.  He indicated  he has been under pretty                                                              
clear instructions from majority  members to make these things pay                                                              
for themselves.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  asked if the  licensees benefit  greatly by                                                              
having  that oversight  because it  provides a  lot of  confidence                                                              
from the community.                                                                                                             
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  said no,  it  is just  the  opposite.   He  is                                                              
concerned about public health.                                                                                                  
Number 0507                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  wondered, "If  you're  concerned with  the                                                              
public health, what is the cost on this again?"                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  clarified  that  he is  talking  about  having                                                              
licensees  paying  for  DEC  to  inspect  unlicensed  premises  or                                                              
jewelry shops that  pierce ears.  He does not think  it is fair to                                                              
ask them to  pay for a duty that  should be the state's  duty.  He                                                              
pointed  out  that Senator  Ellis  is  correct  that it  causes  a                                                              
Number 0535                                                                                                                     
SENATOR ELLIS indicated  that they got to the point  of having the                                                              
ear piercing shops in the bill and  not going through the premises                                                              
and not  being licensed,  but being  under DEC's  regulation.   It                                                              
does cost  a little  bit of  money.   He does  not mind its  being                                                              
general fund  money since it is  only a few thousand  dollars, and                                                              
he hopes  that a  few thousand  dollars would  not kill  the whole                                                              
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG said  they  could  redraft it  like  that.   He                                                              
recommended that  Senator Ellis bring  it up in the  House Finance                                                              
Committee if he comes up against resistance.                                                                                    
SENATOR ELLIS  responded that he  would be happy  to do that.   He                                                              
indicated he wanted to revisit Ms.  McCann's concern.  He referred                                                              
to page 14, line 25, and asked whether  adding the word "cosmetic"                                                              
between the  words "permanent  coloring" - so  that it  would read                                                              
"permanent cosmetic coloring" - would satisfy her concern.                                                                      
MS.  MCCANN  responded  that  they  could  just  remove  the  word                                                              
"coloring",  so that  it would  read "permanent  cosmetics" or  it                                                              
could just read "cosmetic tattooing."    She said for them, it has                                                              
to with the industry standard.                                                                                                  
SENATOR ELLIS responded:                                                                                                        
     We're up against a drafter who  insists on ... a gerund:                                                                   
     "tattooing and  permanent cosmetic coloring".   We can't                                                                   
     say  "tattooing   and  permanent   cosmetics"  in   this                                                                   
     sentence, unless  we want to have that.   So, Ms. McCann                                                                   
     is  putting   forward  her  opinion.    I'm   trying  to                                                                   
     accommodate the  drafter and Ms. McCann in  the way this                                                                   
     should be stated.  Otherwise,  it'll be the subject of a                                                                   
     Revisor's bill  next year, and  I think we  should avoid                                                                   
     that if possible.                                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  clarified for  Ms. McCann that  the legislature                                                              
has a drafting  manual on how to  use the English language  to put                                                              
laws together.  They have to put an "ing" on the end of it.                                                                     
MS. MCCANN  stated that it would  satisfy her to see the  bill get                                                              
passed, so for the  sake of time and expediency she  is willing to                                                              
make that concession.                                                                                                           
SENATOR ELLIS reiterated that the  suggestion before the committee                                                              
is  to change  the wording  to "tattooing  and permanent  cosmetic                                                              
coloring"  throughout  the  bill.   He  said  he  appreciates  Ms.                                                              
McCann's input, but it is hard to balance all of the issues.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE  made  a  motion  to  adopt  the  conceptual                                                              
Amendment  1, to  place "permanent  cosmetic coloring"  throughout                                                              
the  bill where  "permanent  coloring"  currently  exists.   There                                                              
being no objection, conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                         
SENATOR  ELLIS indicated  there should be  a conceptual  amendment                                                              
with regard to the fees.                                                                                                        
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  made a motion to adopt conceptual  Amendment 2:                                                              
"the fees  for that  are not  paid for  by the licensees'  general                                                              
fund obligation  for the  DEC inspection  of the non-licensed  ear                                                              
piercing establishments."                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE asked  about authority  for inspection  fees                                                              
for DEC.                                                                                                                        
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG pointed out that they already have it.                                                                        
JANET  SEITZ,  Staff to  Representative  Norman  Rokeberg,  Alaska                                                              
State Legislature, restated conceptual  Amendment 2:  "inspections                                                              
of the  non-licensed ear piercing  establishments will be  paid by                                                              
the general fund."                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG asked  if  there were  any  objections.   There                                                              
being none, conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  made a motion to adopt conceptual  Amendment 3,                                                              
to  delete "oral  and"  from line  17,  page 3.    There being  no                                                              
objection, conceptual Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                                  
Number 0801                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  indicated that as part  of Amendment 3,  a conforming                                                              
amendment would be needed on page 11, line 9.                                                                                   
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG made  a motion  to  amend Amendment  3 to  also                                                              
change the wording on page 11, line  9.  There being no objection,                                                              
conceptual Amendment 3 [already adopted] was amended.                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  made a motion to  move SB 34, Version  V [1-                                                              
LS0279\V, Lauterbach, 4/12/00], as  amended, out of committee with                                                              
individual recommendations  and accompanying fiscal  notes.  There                                                              
being no  objection, HCS CSSB 34(L&C)  moved from the  House Labor                                                              
and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                                
HB 121-DENTAL CARE INSURANCE                                                                                                  
Number 0880                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  announced that the next item  of business would                                                              
be HOUSE BILL NO. 121, "An Act relating  to patients' rights under                                                              
a health  care insurance plan  or contract providing  coverage for                                                              
dental  care, and  prohibiting certain  practices  by health  care                                                              
insurers relating to dental care."                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  made a motion to adopt the  proposed CS for                                                              
HB  121, Version  K  [1-LS0454\K, Ford,  4/12/00]  as the  working                                                              
document before the committee.                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  objected and asked that it  be clarified for                                                              
the record whether Version K was the same as Version M.                                                                         
PATRICIA SWENSON, Staff to Representative  Con Bunde, Alaska State                                                              
Legislature,  testified  on behalf  of Representative  Bunde,  the                                                              
bill's sponsor.   She confirmed that  Version K and Version  M are                                                              
exactly alike.                                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE withdrew his objection.                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG   declared  that  Version  K   was  before  the                                                              
Number 0919                                                                                                                     
MS. SWENSON read:                                                                                                               
     HB  121  sets  out the  rights  of  dental  health  care                                                                   
     consumers.  This  bill specifically allows consumers  to                                                                   
     choose  any  dentist  they  wish  to   see  including  a                                                                   
     specialist,  prohibits   insurers  from  reimbursing   a                                                                   
     covered  person  at  a different  rate  because  of  the                                                                   
     person's  choice of  dentist, gives  covered people  the                                                                   
     right to receive  full information regarding their  care                                                                   
     options without  fearing adverse actions from  insurance                                                                   
     companies,  and allows  patients  to take  civil  action                                                                   
     against health  care insurers  to enforce their  rights,                                                                   
     and  requires  any  dental  treatment   plan  review  or                                                                   
     utilization review to be conducted by a dentist.                                                                           
MS. SWENSON  said that is  what the bill  did last year,  and that                                                              
there  has been  some language  change this  year.   She asked  if                                                              
there was previous committee action that needed to be rescinded.                                                                
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said the committee  had adopted a [proposed] CS,                                                              
and asked her to proceed with reviewing the changes.                                                                            
Number 1010                                                                                                                     
MS. SWENSON said this bill seems  to satisfy the objections of the                                                              
labor  unions  and  "everybody  else involved  last  year."    The                                                              
changes were brought  to Representative Bunde.  She  had been told                                                              
that everybody has agreed to the changes and signed them.                                                                       
MS. SWENSON explained  that the first change was  on page 2, lines                                                              
8 through 13.  This allows people  to choose a dentist outside the                                                              
plan  and the dentist  can  be reimbursed  at the  same rate  as a                                                              
provider  in  the  preferred  provider   organization  (PPO),  but                                                              
depending  on  the plan,  the  person may  have  to  pay a  higher                                                              
deductible because the dentist is not in the PPO.                                                                               
MS. SWENSON  said the next change  is on page 2, lines  24 through                                                              
26.  It says  a dentist who treats a covered person  may not waive                                                              
uncovered  dental  expenses for  which  the person  has  liability                                                              
because a covered person chooses  a dentist outside the network or                                                              
preferred  provider organization.   The  other changes, she  said,                                                              
are in the definitions section.                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG observed that this is similar to another bill.                                                                
MS. SWENSON concurred.                                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG explained  that this  is basically a  point-of-                                                              
service  provision that  allows  for a  slight  adjustment in  the                                                              
Number 1170                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO moved to rescind  the committee's failure to                                                              
move HB 121  out of committee.   There being no objection,  it was                                                              
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  again moved to adopt HB 121,  Version K, as                                                              
the  working  document  before  the committee.    There  being  no                                                              
objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO made a motion  to move the CS for HB 121 out                                                              
of committee with individual recommendations  and the accompanying                                                              
(updated) fiscal notes.   There being no objection,  CSHB 121(L&C)                                                              
moved out of the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                   
SB 297-BOARD OF CHIROPRACTIC EXAMINERS                                                                                        
Number 1229                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  announced that the next item  of business would                                                              
be CS  FOR SENATE BILL  NO. 297(L&C) am,  "An Act relating  to the                                                              
licensing  of chiropractors  and to  disciplinary actions  against                                                              
chiropractors."   [The bill  was sponsored  by the Senate  Health,                                                              
Education and Social  Services Committee, chaired  by Senator Mike                                                              
Number 1252                                                                                                                     
SHARON  CLARK,   Staff  to  Senator  Mike  Miller,   Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature, specified  that the  committee was working  from CSSB
297 (L&C)  am.   She explained  that this  bill, requested  by the                                                              
Board of Chiropractic Examiners,  amends the licensing statute for                                                              
Alaska chiropractors.  She read from the sponsor statement:                                                                     
     Section  1 allows  for a  temporary  permit to  practice                                                                 
     chiropractic   in  Alaska.      The  temporary   license                                                                   
     initially  is for  60 days and  may be  extended by  the                                                                   
     Board of Chiropractic  Examiners.  It is  subject to the                                                                   
     same terms  and conditions of  a regular license.   This                                                                   
     section  also  provides  for  a licensee  who  does  not                                                                   
     practice in the state to hold  an inactive license.  The                                                                   
     section  finally provides  for  a retired  licensee.   A                                                                   
     person  holding  a  retired  license  may  not  practice                                                                   
     chiropractic in  the state.  A person holding  a retired                                                                   
     license  may  apply for  an  active license  subject  to                                                                   
     terms and conditions set by the board.                                                                                     
     Section  2 provides  for new  reasons why  the Board  of                                                                 
     Chiropractic Examiners may refuse  to issue a license in                                                                   
     the  state.   These include  conviction of  a felony  or                                                                   
     other crimes  that would affect the person's  ability to                                                                   
     practice  competently and safely.   Conviction  of crime                                                                   
     involving the unlawful procurement,  sale, prescription,                                                                   
     or  dispensing  of  drugs, and  attempting  to  practice                                                                   
     after becoming unfit due to  an infectious or contagious                                                                   
     Your consideration of this bill is appreciated.                                                                            
Number 1336                                                                                                                     
MS.  CLARK  explained  that  CSSB  297(FIN)  am  had  been  passed                                                              
unanimously by the  Senate.  One amendment was  adopted before the                                                              
bill was passed.    A concern  had come up in committee  about the                                                              
word "physiotherapy."    Senator Ellis had  offered an  amendment:                                                              
On page 2, line 22, after the word  "board," delete "physiotherapy                                                              
examination" and  insert  "physiological therapeutic  examination;                                                              
and  on  page 2,  line  23,  after the  word  "examiners,"  insert                                                              
"required  by the board."   That  amendment was  adopted, and  the                                                              
amended bill was passed by the Senate.                                                                                          
MS. CLARK  mentioned that  someone had  asked what "locum  tenens"                                                              
means.   According to  Black's Law  Dictionary, it means  "holding                                                            
the   place  of   deputy;  a   substitute,  a   lieutenant  or   a                                                              
representative."  Webster's Dictionary  defines it as "one holding                                                            
a place;  a person,  a physician  or a  member of  the clergy  who                                                              
substitutes for another."                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  asked  the  intent  behind  having  a  retired                                                              
license status.                                                                                                                 
MS. CLARK  said she  would prefer to  have Catherine  Reardon from                                                              
the Division of Occupational Licensing speak to that.                                                                           
Number 1500                                                                                                                     
DR.  LOREN   MORGAN,  President,   Alaska  Chiropractic   Society,                                                              
testified by teleconference  from Anchorage.  He  said he supports                                                              
the  bill, which  provides continuity  for  the profession,  locum                                                              
tenens, and grounds  for suspension.  There has  been no provision                                                              
for temporary licensing or for retired licenses until now.                                                                      
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG  asked if  there has been  a need for  temporary                                                              
DR.  MORGAN explained  that  a  solo practitioner  has  difficulty                                                              
taking  care of  his patients'  needs while  he or  she is out  of                                                              
time.   Right  now, the  only alternative  is not  to provide  any                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked, "So you can't take a vacation?"                                                                        
DR. MORGAN agreed, "Yes, you're kind of stuck."                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked about the retired license.                                                                              
Number 1583                                                                                                                     
DR. MORGAN said  a retired licensee would be for  a person who has                                                              
been licensed in  the state and who leaves the state  but may want                                                              
to come back.   This lowers the  fees while he/she is  not here in                                                              
active  practice,   but  maintains   all  of  his/her   continuing                                                              
education and other credits while he/she is away.                                                                               
Number 1612                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked about the inactive license.                                                                      
Number 1630                                                                                                                     
DR. MORGAN  said they  are almost  the same.   A retired  licensee                                                              
would be  for someone who  is not going  to practice but  wants to                                                              
remain involved in chiropractic activities.   It would be a like a                                                              
retired person  maintaining some type  of affiliation with  his or                                                              
her professional associates.                                                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  said she was looking at  the language of                                                              
the  bill, which  says that  if a  person practices  at all,  even                                                              
infrequently, he/she  has to have to have an active  license.  She                                                              
asked:  If I am only going to practice  four times a year, would I                                                              
have an active license or a retired license?                                                                                    
DR. MORGAN said she would have an active license.                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said she  still did not understand why it                                                              
is necessary to have an active, an  inactive and a retired status.                                                              
Number 1710                                                                                                                     
CATHERINE REARDON,  Director, Division of Occupational  Licensing,                                                              
Department of  Community and Economic Development,  explained that                                                              
the retired license  status is basically for someone  who does not                                                              
intend  to  return  to  the profession,  but  who  would  like  to                                                              
continue to get to "call themselves  a chiropractor" for emotional                                                              
reasons.   It  acknowledges the  professional  credential one  had                                                              
during  one's working  life.  It  doesn't do  anything other  than                                                              
that.   The  person  cannot  work.   The  reason for  an  inactive                                                              
license  is  that one  has  have  to keep  up  his/her  continuing                                                              
education because  he/she may want  to return to  active practice.                                                              
[The division] wants  to ensure that when the  person does [return                                                              
to active practice], he/she is ready to practice competently.                                                                   
Number 1805                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI asked,  "We get  money from  them for  a                                                              
retired license fee and they don't get to do anything?"                                                                         
MS. REARDON said  that is correct.  Some people want  to pay to be                                                              
a former chiropractor, more or less.                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE, referring  to discussion  of another  bill,                                                              
said he thinks  it is important, given that [the  legislature] can                                                              
use  the fees  coming  in for  retired licensing  to  pay for  the                                                              
inspections of unlicensed body piercers.  [Laughter]                                                                            
Number 1844                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  said she thinks the  big motivation for  the inactive                                                              
status is  because it is  also a lesser  price than for  an active                                                              
license, although it  is not the one-time fee  for retired status.                                                              
The feeling of the board is that  people who move elsewhere and do                                                              
think they might  return to Alaska are more likely  to keep paying                                                              
even though it is a lesser [license].   This will help the overall                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked what  the retired license fee would                                                              
MS.  REARDON  said she  doesn't  know; the  fee  would  be set  by                                                              
regulation.   She has no stake in  having them be very  high.  The                                                              
fee  is not  repeated  and would  not  bring in  a  great deal  of                                                              
revenue.  She indicated she would  look for public comment on that                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI wondered  if this is done in other areas.                                                              
MS. REARDON replied yes.  She explained  that physicians also have                                                              
retired status.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  asked, "Do you give them some  kind of a                                                              
licensure or an endorsement?"                                                                                                   
MS. REARDON responded that they are given a retired license.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI stated that  she is trying to equate this                                                              
to the practice  of law:  When "you are ready  to retire, you stop                                                              
paying your  bar dues -  and that's a good  thing - and  you still                                                              
get to call yourself a retired lawyer."                                                                                         
MS. REARDON  answered that  for some reason,  some people  like to                                                              
continue to pay and be on the roster.                                                                                           
Number 1977                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented:                                                                                                    
     I've  actually thought  about  this in  the real  estate                                                                   
     statute  -  in  expanding  that   section,  repealing  a                                                                   
     sabbatical  leave-type of a  provision.  Because  of the                                                                   
     licensure  - continuing  education  - there's  a lot  of                                                                   
     problems  around that.   Plus,  usually a  professional,                                                                   
     not  only do they  pay the  great State  of Alaska  that                                                                   
     licensing  fee  biennially,  they usually  belong  to  a                                                                   
     number of other professional  associations and societies                                                                   
     and so forth.   And that may be one reason  they want to                                                                   
     have  a  retired  status,  so they  can  keep  up  their                                                                   
     license, to keep up their national affiliation.                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  referred to Section 2, page  4, lines 16                                                              
through 17, relating  to the refusal to issue a license  due to an                                                              
infectious or contagious disease.   She said she guessed that this                                                              
makes sense,  but she was trying  to think of  infectious diseases                                                              
that one  would want  to "stay away  from or  that you  would deny                                                              
somebody a license  based on the disease."  She  wondered what the                                                              
thought was behind adding that to the bill.                                                                                     
Number 2131                                                                                                                     
DR. MORGAN explained  this was included to reduce  any risk to the                                                              
public.  It is a public safety issue.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE   and  REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI   expressed                                                              
curiosity regarding how it is defined.                                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented:                                                                                                 
     Somebody   in   the   early   stages   of   HIV   [Human                                                                   
     Immunodeficiency  Virus] infection  obviously might  not                                                                   
     be ...  contagious or a problem  or anything else.   Are                                                                   
     they unfit at that point in  time, or [at] what point in                                                                   
     time do they become unfit?                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied:                                                                                                      
     The board  can impose  disciplinary sanctions or  refuse                                                                   
     to issue a license, but it doesn't  indicate revocation.                                                                   
     There  may be  quirk in  their  licensing law.   On  the                                                                   
     other  hand,  that's  a  question   I'd  direct  to  Ms.                                                                   
     Reardon.    I'm  not  sure   this  is  legal  under  the                                                                   
     Americans  with  Disabilities  Act [ADA],  depending  on                                                                   
     what the infectious disease was.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE  said for  a  physical disability,  that  is                                                              
already in statute.                                                                                                             
MS.  REARDON  added that  it  seems to  be  a subset  of  physical                                                              
disabilities  already included  in statute.   She  said it  is her                                                              
assumption is  that the board would  have to find that  the person                                                              
was unfit to  perform chiropractic work, not just  that the person                                                              
had an infectious disease of some  type.  This is why it would not                                                              
violate the ADA.   If it did not impact one's  ability to practice                                                              
as a  chiropractor, she  thinks it probably  would be  against the                                                              
law.   She does not  know of any  problems encountered  that would                                                              
have to led to the inclusion of this language in the bill.                                                                      
Number 2333                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  said she thinks  the language is  a "red                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  asked Ms. Clark, "Where did  that come from?                                                              
Did that just come from the chiropractors?"                                                                                     
MS. CLARK said that is correct.                                                                                                 
MS. REARDON clarified  that the language came from  the board.  It                                                              
is her personal belief that elimination  of the language would not                                                              
create a  problem.   If there  is some  physical issue that  makes                                                              
someone unfit,  "we're going to be  able to do something  about it                                                              
under the current  statute."  She suspects the  language came from                                                              
the board's desire  to be very consumer-protection-oriented.   She                                                              
does not know of any specifics.                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  ROKEBERG  referred  to  page  4,  line  15,  which  adds                                                              
"person's"  and  removes  "licensee's".     He  pointed  out  that                                                              
"licensee" is referenced throughout the entire bill.                                                                            
MS. REARDON explained, "It now applies  to refusing a license, and                                                              
so the  person that they  want to refuse a  license to won't  be a                                                              
licensee yet."                                                                                                                  
TAPE 00-48, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0016                                                                                                                     
MITCH GRAVO,  Lobbyist, Alaska Chiropractic Society,  came forward                                                              
to testify on CSSB  297(L&C) am.  He said he hadn't  talked to the                                                              
board members  who put this  together.   However, he thinks  it is                                                              
probably modeled after the other  health care provider legislation                                                              
in  the state.   If  the committee  changes it,  he would  suggest                                                              
keeping either  "infectious" or "contagious"  because he  does not                                                              
think  anyone  would  want  a  health  care  provider  who  had  a                                                              
contagious disease  treating him or her.   He believes there  is a                                                              
difference  between being infected  and having  a disease  that is                                                              
contagious.   A  person  can be  infected  without  being able  to                                                              
transfer the infection.  But he doesn't  believe that anyone would                                                              
want to be treated by a health care  provider who had a contagious                                                              
disease.  That would be a public safety issue.                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  said the question  is whether  infectious or                                                              
contagious diseases are a subset of a physical disability.                                                                      
Number 0114                                                                                                                     
DR. MORGAN  explained that  "infectious and contagious"  regarding                                                              
with the licensee or the individual  is if those things affect the                                                              
doctor's  ability to  practice  safely, not  that  he/she has  the                                                              
disability.  It is a hands-on profession.                                                                                       
MR. GRAVO pointed  out that a change would require  concurrence by                                                              
the Senate, an additional step.                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE said he  does not know  whether it is  a big                                                              
deal or not, but he is comfortable leaving it like it is.                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI  said she does  not like it.   She agreed                                                              
with  Ms.   Reardon  that   it  is   contained  within   "physical                                                              
disability."  She thinks it is more problematic leaving it in.                                                                  
MS. REARDON stated:                                                                                                             
     I did look  up ... dentistry and medical  licensing. ...                                                                   
     They just refer  to physical or mental disability.   So,                                                                   
     probably  we're  able  to  make   responsible  decisions                                                                   
     without having this language here.                                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  MURKOWSKI  made a  motion  to  amend the  bill  by                                                              
deleting  "or an  infectious  or contagious  disease"  on page  4,                                                              
lines 16 and 17.                                                                                                                
Number 0502                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN   ROKEBERG   asked   Ms.   Clark   what   the   sponsor's                                                              
representative  would say about deleting that from the bill.                                                                    
MS. CLARK said,  "He would probably be in support  of whatever the                                                              
sponsor wanted."  She said that interestingly  enough, this didn't                                                              
come up in any of the discussions.                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said, quite frankly,  he thinks it runs the risk                                                              
of running afoul of the ADA.                                                                                                    
Number 0553                                                                                                                     
MR.  GRAVO said  he  did not  think he  could  argue against  [the                                                              
amendment].   It  just might  complicate the  bill's passage  this                                                              
Number 0574                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON pointed out that there is a good public health and                                                                  
safety reason for the whole bill.  She stated:                                                                                  
     It's  not  just  the  inactive,  retired,  locum  tenens                                                                   
     status.  The really  important thing  about having  this                                                                   
     bill  pass into  law is that  without it,  it retains  a                                                                   
     giant loophole in chiropractic  licensing, which is that                                                                   
     there is a  list of things you can discipline  a license                                                                   
     holder for, but  there is nowhere where it  says you can                                                                   
     deny a  license.   That's the  really important part  of                                                                   
     this whole  bill, is where it  says you can also  deny a                                                                   
     license. ...                                                                                                               
     This  is a  bill  that matters.   And  this  has been  a                                                                   
     problem  for  the  board, where  they  had  people  with                                                                   
     fairly significant criminal  backgrounds.  And when they                                                                   
     went  to see  why  they could  deny  a license  to  that                                                                   
     person, they found out they couldn't.                                                                                      
Number 0626                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO  asked  whether,  if  the  bill  were  left                                                              
unamended,  the   board  couldn't   create  more  specific   rules                                                              
regarding  "Section C,  physical  or mental  disability," to  more                                                              
closely reflect  the physical or  mental disability goal  that the                                                              
committee is trying to reach.                                                                                                   
Number 0661                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON said:                                                                                                               
     If  what  you are  asking  is,  "Could the  board  write                                                                   
     regulations  that  said  that  'physical  or  infectious                                                                   
     diseases' wording  only applies to diseases  that impact                                                                   
     your  ability  to  practice safely"  or  something  like                                                                   
     that, I would think that they probably could.                                                                              
     I also  think that even in  the absence of that  type of                                                                   
     regulation, if we tried to actually  discipline, to file                                                                   
     an accusation against someone,  or to deny a license and                                                                   
     they appealed, that if it conflicted  with the ADA, that                                                                   
     the  Department of  Law would immediately  yank us  back                                                                   
     and say,  "No, you can't  charge someone with  something                                                                   
     that doesn't relate to their ability to practice."                                                                         
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if any more regulations would have to be                                                                
written because of this bill.                                                                                                   
Number 0712                                                                                                                     
MS. REARDON  said there is  the opportunity to  write regulations.                                                              
If they  [the department]  cared to  write some regulations  about                                                              
how one could get back one's retired  license, into active status,                                                              
then the bill says they can write  regulations on that.  But there                                                              
isn't any mandate.                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG reminded members  that there was a motion before                                                              
the committee.                                                                                                                  
Number 0739                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  said he was  going to oppose the  motion for                                                              
the simple reason that he would like  a clearer definition of what                                                              
this [legislation]  has to do.   He suggested that the  bill could                                                              
still be amended on the floor.                                                                                                  
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Representative  Murkowski if she wished to                                                              
maintain her motion  or wanted to call Legislative  Legal Services                                                              
and asked for a legal opinion.                                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE   BRICE  urged  the   committee  to   withdraw  the                                                              
amendment. He said:                                                                                                             
     It's not going  to be on the floor tomorrow  or even the                                                                   
     next  [day], at  which point  in  time we  can get  this                                                                   
     completely cleared  up as to exactly how  important that                                                                   
     section  is -  whether there  are  actually areas  where                                                                   
     there   have  been  infected   chiropractors  that   are                                                                   
     spreading disease  and contagion and causing  a problem,                                                                   
     or whether or  not this is just something  people wanted                                                                   
     to see (indisc.).                                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated:                                                                                                       
     My concern  on the subject is  that it may run  afoul of                                                                   
     some legal problems with the  ADA.  On the other hand, I                                                                   
     believe it should be (indisc.)  if there is unfitness on                                                                   
     the part of  the practitioner because of  a disease. ...                                                                   
     That's  my concern.   I  would  prefer to  leave it  in,                                                                   
MS. REARDON  asked if a  letter of intent  would make  people feel                                                              
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied no.  He said that he is concerned about                                                               
the legal aspect of this issue.                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI withdrew her motion.                                                                                   
Number 0918                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  made a motion  to move CSSB 297(L&C)  am out                                                              
of  committee  with  individual  recommendations.    There  be  no                                                              
objection,  CSSB 297(L&C)  am moved  out  of the  House Labor  and                                                              
Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                                    
Number 0953                                                                                                                     
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at                                                                  
5:23 p.m.                                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects