Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/09/1998 03:22 PM L&C
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE March 9, 1998 3:22 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman Representative Bill Hudson Representative Jerry Sanders Representative Joe Ryan Representative Tom Brice MEMBERS ABSENT Representative Gene Kubina COMMITTEE CALENDAR SENATE BILL NO. 122 "An Act relating to unfair discrimination under a group health insurance policy for services provided by marital and family therapists; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED HCS SB 122(STA) OUT OF COMMITTEE HOUSE BILL NO. 392 "An Act relating to access by the Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of Fish and Game to confidential tax records for fisheries resources prepared or kept by the Department of Revenue under AS 43.75; relating to certain salmon products reports; and providing for an effective date." - MOVED CSHB 392(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 142 "An Act relating to the sale or transfer of new or used motor vehicles; relating to the confidentiality of certain information related to attorney general investigations of unlawful trade practices and antitrust activities; establishing additional unlawful trade practices; relating to the exemptions from telephonic solicitation regulation; regulating the sale of business opportunities; amending Rules 4 and 73, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective date." - FAILED TO MOVE CSSSHB 142(L&C) (* First public hearing) PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: SB 122 SHORT TITLE: INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 03/06/97 597 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 03/06/97 597 (S) L&C, HES 04/08/97 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 04/08/97 (S) MINUTE(L&C) 04/09/97 1049 (S) L&C RPT CS 1DP 3NR SAME TITLE 04/09/97 1049 (S) DP: LEMAN; NR: KELLY, MACKIE, MILLER 04/09/97 1049 (S) ZERO FN TO SB & CS (DCED) 04/16/97 (S) HES AT 9:00 AM BUTROVICH ROOM 205 04/16/97 (S) MINUTE(HES) 04/16/97 1164 (S) HES RPT 3DP 2NR (L&C)CS 04/16/97 1164 (S) DP: WARD, LEMAN, ELLIS; NR: GREEN, WILKEN 04/16/97 1164 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCED) 04/21/97 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 04/21/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 04/21/97 1331 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/21/97 04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME 04/21/97 1344 (S) L&C CS ADOPTED Y15 N4 E1 04/21/97 1344 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT 04/21/97 1344 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB 122(L&C) 04/21/97 1345 (S) PASSED Y13 N6 E1 04/21/97 1345 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE PASSED Y15 N4 E1 04/21/97 1345 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION 04/22/97 1420 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING 04/22/97 1420 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR 04/22/97 1429 (S) HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO 4/23 CALENDAR 04/23/97 1452 (S) BEFORE THE SENATE ON RECONSIDERATION 04/23/97 1452 (S) RETURN TO RLS COMMITTEE 05/08/97 (S) RLS AT 8:25 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203 05/08/97 (S) MINUTE(RLS) 05/09/97 1891 (S) RULES TO CAL ON RECONSIDERATION IN 3RD 05/09/97 1923 (S) IN THIRD READING ON RECONSIDERATION 05/09/97 1923 (S) RTN 2ND RESCIND PREVIOUS ACTION UAN CON 05/09/97 1924 (S) RESCINDED ADOPTING L&C CS Y13 N6 E1 05/09/97 1924 (S) FAILED TO ADOPT L&C CS Y4 N15 E1 05/09/97 1924 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING SB 122 05/09/97 1925 (S) LETTER OF INTENT FAILED Y7 N12 E1 05/09/97 1926 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y15 N4 E1 05/09/97 1926 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE 05/09/97 1932 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H) 05/09/97 1786 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 05/09/97 1786 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, L&C, WTR 02/19/98 (H) STA AT 9:05 AM CAPITOL 102 02/19/98 (H) MINUTE(STA) 02/23/98 2403 (H) STA RPT HCS(STA) 4DP 2NR 02/23/98 2403 (H) DP: JAMES, ELTON, BERKOWITZ, DYSON; 02/23/98 2403 (H) NR: IVAN, HODGINS 02/23/98 2403 (H) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED) 03/02/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 03/02/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 392 SHORT TITLE: REPORTS: FISH TAX & SALMON PRODUCTS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) AUSTERMAN, Hudson Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/11/98 2280 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/11/98 2280 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE 02/18/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 02/18/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 142 SHORT TITLE: BUSINESS PRACTICE REGULATIONS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) DAVIS, Croft Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 02/17/97 374 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S) 02/17/97 374 (H) L&C, JUDICIARY 02/19/97 408 (H) COSPONSOR(S): CROFT 04/08/97 1025 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED - REFERRALS 04/08/97 1025 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY 05/02/97 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 05/02/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 05/05/97 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 05/05/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 10/15/97 (H) L&C AT 1:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO 10/15/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 10/20/97 (H) L&C AT 1:00 PM ANCHORAGE LIO 10/20/97 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 02/04/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 02/04/98 (H) MINUTE(L&C) 03/09/98 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17 WITNESS REGISTER DIXIE HOOD, Board Member Marital and Family Therapy Board; licensed marital and family therapist 222 Seward Street, Suite 210 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 586-2200 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on SB 122. PAT CLASBY, licensed marital and family therapist 211 Fourth Street, Suite 114 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 463-6753 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information on SB 122 representing the Alaska Association for Marriage and Family Therapists. LARANE DERR Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association 319 Seward Street, Suite 11 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 586-1790 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCS SB 122(STA). ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 113 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-3844 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered question on SB 122. SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Chairman Rokeberg Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 24 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-4954 POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information on SB 122; explained proposed CS for SSHB 142. REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 434 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-2487 POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 392. PAUL DICK, Revenue Audit Supervisor I Income and Excise Audit Division Department of Revenue P.O. Box 110420 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0420 Telephone: (907) 465-3691 POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on HB 392. RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist for Pacific Seafood Processors Association 321 Highland Drive Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 586-6366 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 392. DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to Representative Gary Davis Alaska State Legislature Capitol Building, Room 513 Juneau, Alaska 99801 Telephone: (907) 465-2693 POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on SSHB 142. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 98-28, SIDE A Number 0001 CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:22 p.m. Members present at the call to order were Representatives Rokeberg, Cowdery, Hudson, Sanders and Brice. Representative Ryan arrived at 3:34 p.m. SB 122 - INS.COVERAGE:MARRIAGE & FAMILY THERAPIST Number 0046 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the committee's first order of business would be SB 122, "An Act relating to unfair discrimination under a group health insurance policy for services provided by marital and family therapists; and providing for an effective date." He requested only new testimony on SB 122, stating it was his intention to move the bill out of committee. Number 0088 DIXIE HOOD, Board Member, Marital and Family Therapy Board; licensed marital and family therapist, came forward to testify. She commented she had made some clarifying notations on the insurance company denial form she submitted at the March 2, 1998, hearing, in response to questions raised. Number 0126 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG directed the committee's to the additional information the March 9 memorandum. Number 0169 PAT CLASBY, licensed marital and family therapist, came forward to testify. She stated she represented the Alaska Association for Marriage and Family Therapists. She referred to two questions posed at the previous hearing: 1) what insurance companies do cover marital and family therapists, 2) what insurance companies do not. She noted they have done a very informal survey on some of the private practitioners in the Anchorage area, speaking with their billing clerks. She noted this information was not complete, but thought it might give the committee a better understanding of the actual practice. Number 0230 LARANE DERR, Alaska State Hospital and Nursing Home Association (ASHNHA), came forward to testify. She stated the ASHNHA supports the current version of SB 122 before the committee, noting the bill has been amended and unamended. Number 0269 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG confirmed the unamended version was currently before the committee. He asked Ms. Kreitzer if it was correct that the Senate wished the bill to be moved as it is. ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman, answered in the affirmative Number 0321 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE made a motion to move HCS SB 122(STA) with individual recommendations and zero fiscal note. Number 0340 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections. Number 0347 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON objected for discussion purposes. He confirmed this was Version K of SB 122. REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that was his understanding. SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman Rokeberg, stated this was the version that came through. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON removed his objection. Number 0365 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated, there being no objections, HCS SB 122(STA) was so moved. HB 392 - REPORTS: FISH TAX & SALMON PRODUCTS Number 0385 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated the committee's next item of business was HB 392, "An Act relating to access by the Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of Fish and Game to confidential tax records for fisheries resources prepared or kept by the Department of Revenue under AS 43.75; relating to certain salmon products reports; and providing for an effective date." Number 0457 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:26 p.m. The committee came back to order at 3:28 p.m. Number 0463 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON moved Version K of HB 392, labeled 0- LS1423\K, Bannister, dated 2/26/98, for discussion purposes. Number 0482 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated, there being no objections, the proposed CS was before the committee. Number 0493 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN AUSTERMAN came forward as the sponsor of HB 392. He noted there had been a couple of small changes and one major change since the committee's previous hearing on HB 392. The major change was the deletion of the audit provision. Representative Austerman said there had been the issue of requiring an audit and having the negotiation agency come in and ask for an audit. He said they found that the harvesters had never really requested an audit. In his discussions with the Department of Revenue (DOR) he was told that DOR had the broad authority to do audits but had never been requested to do one. Representative Austerman noted there was the question as to who would pay for the audit if one was requested, but they decided it was best to remove the entire provision and advise the harvesters to request an audit. He said that then if the harvesters had problems, those problems could be identified, and it could be brought back at a later date. Representative Austerman noted the exemption of the very small processors, in the 240,000 pounds or less category, from the reporting requirements. He said they did not really feel it was necessary for these processors to be involved in the reporting requirements so that 240,000 pound cap was inserted. He noted they had discussed this a little bit with DOR. Representative Austerman said the harvesters, processors and DOR all agreed that was probably a good thing. Number 0643 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned if that had been the amendment before the committee at the previous hearing on HB 392. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN responded in the affirmative, stating that was part of the amendment before the committee last time and was incorporated into Version K. Number 0650 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to Section 3, page 2, where he said it provides, "The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish the Department of Environmental Conservation or the Department of Fish and Game copies of tax returns" and he asked Representative Austerman to explain the rationale behind that. Number 0671 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he thought that was part of the attempt to consolidate the collection of basically the same information from the processors by three agencies. He said the processors would report to DOR, and DOR would then furnish information to the other departments if it was requested, noting the departments were currently receiving that information. Number 0708 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was someone present from the Administration to answer questions and said, "It says 'copies of the tax returns' -- if they're getting the information, is it the entire tax return that they need to provided 'em with ...?" Number 0735 PAUL DICK, Revenue Audit Supervisor I, Income and Excise Audit Division, Department of Revenue, came forward. He said DOR collects fishery business taxes and licenses fishery businesses. Number 0746 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to the nature of the information mentioned in Section 3 and the necessity for the Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) and the Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) to have that information. Number 0757 MR. DICK stated, as he noted Representative Austerman had said, that they were trying to consolidate the information so the fishery businesses would only have to report once to the state, commenting that currently the businesses are reporting basically the same information to three agencies. Mr. Dick said this "falls on the heels" of the already implemented consolidated licensing process, which was possible because licensing is public information. Mr. Dick indicated DOR would receive the information in the proposed consolidation, and then share it with the other two agencies because the tax information is confidential. Number 0814 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked specifically what information were these departments looking for, noting it was certainly not the businesses' entire tax return. Number 0826 MR. DICK stated that ADF&G currently collects value and poundage information. He said DOR also collects this information and goes a step further by having the businesses multiply their value by a percentage to calculate the businesses' tax liability. Mr. Dick said the point would be to have the fishery businesses only report the information to DOR. He said because DOR's information is confidential and the department currently does not have authorization in statute to share that information with ADF&G and DEC, the businesses must report this information to each of the individual agencies. Number 0872 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if DOR couldn't just give the other agencies the specific information they were looking for and not the business's whole tax return. Number 0880 MR. DICK stated DOR could not under the current provisions of AS 43.05.230, its disclosure statute, which currently prohibits DOR from sharing that information with those departments. He noted there was a provision in AS 43.05.230 which specifically allowed DOR to share mining tax information with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR), and that is currently being done. He said DOR is looking for that kind of authorization to extend to ADF&G and DEC. Number 0916 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN referred to page 2, lines 24 through 27, "The Department of Environmental Conservation and the Department of Fish and Game shall maintain the confidentiality that the Department of Revenue is required to extend to the returns, reports, determinations, work papers, and other documents furnished under this subsection.", indicating he thought it explained that the confidentiality had to be maintained. Number 0924 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he appreciated needing the authority to make a single report, noting he didn't see anything being repealed here and asked if the reporting requirements to DEC and ADF&G were currently in regulation. Number 0945 MR. DICK said he believed those were statutory requirements for those agencies. He said ADF&G has its commercial operator annual report which he believed was a statutory provision, and he said DEC collects summary-type information from the fishery businesses. Mr. Dick noted that summary information was what DOR would share with DEC. Number 0979 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated it said "copies of the tax returns, reports, or other documents filed under [AS] 43. ..." He asked what AS 43.75 was. Number 0992 MR. DICK replied that was the fishery business tax. Number 0998 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked, "Couldn't this be drafted in such a manner as that they would file their tax returns with your department and then you, in turn, would only give that information from their tax returns that these particular departments needed, rather than their entire tax return?" Number 1017 MR. DICK said that was unfortunately not the case; under AS 43.05.230 all information on the tax return is considered confidential, so if anybody were to request only certain parts of the information on any tax return, DOR could not disclose that information. He noted this was not just for the fishery business tax but for any tax return received through DOR. Number 1047 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that was not his question. He asked, "Why can't you just provide that part of the information which the DEC and fish and game wants ... without sending the entire tax return?" Number 1062 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated he was looking at AS 43.75 which he said was pretty inclusive, and he asked if they weren't really talking about the fisheries business tax when they were talking about tax returns. Number 1079 MR. DICK responded in the affirmative. Number 1083 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON suggested they specify AS 43.75.015 which would only refer, then, to the fisheries business tax. Representative Hudson said he thought he understood the Chairman's concern about releasing full tax returns, which was pretty comprehensive, and stated, " But if we were to relate that 'other documents filed under 43.75.015,' which would just apply then to the fisheries business tax, which is, I think Mr. Chairman, is what they're trying to get to .... If that would be pertinent, I think that would be a reasonable amendment." Number 1118 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Dick if that would be possible. Number 1122 MR. DICK said then, as he understood it, line 24 would be amended to specify AS 43.75.015. Number 1136 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said they would go up to line 21, stating, "You wouldn't furnish them with the copies of the tax return. You would furnish them with the reports required under 43.75, is that right Representative Hudson?" Number 1143 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON replied that it would be the tax returns and reports required under AS 43.75.015 only, noting that he thought it was a separate business tax filing. Number 1158 MR. DICK stated that under AS 43.75.015 the DOR just collected tax returns, it did not collect reports like the current canned salmon reports. The information DOR was receiving under AS 43.75.015 was the tax return. Number 1173 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said possibly one of the sources of his confusion has been what tax return they were talking about, noting it was only the fishery tax return, not corporate or business tax returns. Number 1190 MR. DICK stated that was correct, the businesses' corporate tax return would fall under AS 43.20 and other tax returns fall under other chapters of Title 43. Number 1199 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if this particular tax return was a one- page document. Number 1205 MR. DICK replied it was probably a ten-page tax return because DOR collects a lot of information by species, pounds and value, which, he added, is also what ADF&G collects. Number 1219 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked what DEC's interest was in this information. Number 1229 MR. DICK noted DEC would like to base its license fees on the processors' actual activity. Number 1235 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if DEC had a license fee for fishing. Number 1243 MR. DICK replied in the affirmative. He indicated every fishery business has to be licensed with DEC to meet certain water and air quality standards, and indicated other aspects of fishery business were also regulated by DEC. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN commented he thought DEC's license fee was up to approximately $1,200. Number 1259 There was a brief discussion which clarified that DEC licensed the fish processors, and that the tax returns in question were from the processors, not the fishermen. Number 1289 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN said he, too, had an interest in the discussion involving the role of DEC. He asked if this would add to DEC's role as far as oversight was concerned, giving DEC more power than it currently has. MR. DICK responded he did not believe so. Number 1324 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said DEC already has the authority to collect that report, and the attempt was being made to concentrate it into one reporting form so the processors do not have to report to three different agencies. He said those other two agencies would then be able to obtain that information from DOR. Number 1341 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the drafter had examined the other statutes, noting he did not see a repealer. Number 1346 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he had made a note to look that up. Number 1351 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG commented it was nice to take laws away when they add them, particularly if an attempt was being made to consolidate something. REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN noted if he found that those statutes could be repealed because of this, they would introduce it on the Senate side and get it done. Number 1362 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN commented on the zero fiscal note. He said his experience in the last two years has been that when the Administration wants to do something, it has zero fiscal notes, and when they want to do something, they get piled with all kinds of money, and he was just wondering how they were going to keep track of these extra reports and so forth without additional expenditures. Number 1388 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated he thought the sponsor said the reports were already required, so he assumed there would be no fiscal impact. Number 1398 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON noted the committee had not had a formal discussion on AS 43.75.015. He asked if the Chairman would consider an amendment on page 2, line 22, after "43.75" add ".015" which, Representative Hudson said, would isolate it to the fisheries business tax, and all reference above that then would only relate to the fisheries business tax. He stated he believed there were other enhancement taxes in AS 43.75. Number 1452 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG added that there was also a reference to it in line 24. Number 1457 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN said he didn't really see a problem with inserting that. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated he would insert it in both places. The amended language would read: The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish to the Department of Environmental Conservation or the Department of Fish and Game copies of tax returns, reports, or other documents filed under AS 43.75.015, and copies of the Department of Revenue's determinations and work papers related to those documents filed under AS 43.75.015. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill went to the House Finance Standing Committee next. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG responded he believed this was the only committee of referral. Number 1469 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that the suggestion might be to alter the language so that it read, "The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish to the Department of Environmental Conservation or the Department of Fish and Game copies of documents filed under AS 43.75.015, and copies of the Department of Revenue's determinations and work papers related to those documents." given that only one tax, AS 43.75.015, was being referenced there. He commented on the language "copies of documents filed under AS 43.75.015", asking if that was the information they wanted. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied that was correct. Number 1533 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said it was all a matter of semantics, the two suggestions did the same thing. He stated, "I would say conceptual, Mr. Chairman, that we adopt '015' after '43.75' in the two locations and then if ..." Number 1552 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Representative Brice to make a formal motion on his suggested language. Number 1558 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE moved that they delete on page 2, line 21, "tax returns", on line 22, "reports, or other", and then add on line 22, "43.75.015", and then leave it to the discretion of the committee whether they wanted to add "015" on line 24 after AS 43.75. Number 1599 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he thought those were separate things, noting those were the work papers. He asked Mr. Dick to speak about the work paper requirement. Number 1606 MR. DICK replied he believed that was addressing the situation where DOR has an examination or audit and DOR goes out and finds additional value or poundage related to the tax return. Number 1618 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said, "So like if there was an error in the return and you went and got further ... So we prefer to see that language remain in there ...." Chairman Rokeberg said he would like to add ".015" on line 24 to the amendment. He stated the amended section would then read: (i) The commissioner shall, upon request, furnish to the Department of Environmental Conservation or the Department of Fish and Game copies of documents filed under AS 43.75.015, and copies of the Department of Revenue's determinations and working papers related to those documents filed under AS 43.75.015. [NOTE: previous language contained "work papers"] Number 1658 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections to the amendment. There being none, he stated the amendment was adopted. Number 1677 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked, regarding the work papers, et cetera, were they talking about DOR materials, or the materials of the person who submitted the return. Number 1680 MR. DICK stated that would be the DOR's work papers. Number 1687 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN noted the materials of the person submitting the return are not usually seen until a court subpoenas or orders them. Number 1697 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Lauber if these fixes made him feel any better. Number 1708 RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist for Pacific Seafood Processors Association, came forward to testify. He answered the Chairman's question in a strong affirmative. He said he certainly appreciated the work that had been done and he thinks it makes it a much better bill. He said the bill says much of what he was trying to express at the previous hearing. He noted there were two other things, but he was not going to ask this committee address them, indicating he had discussed them with the Chairman of the House Special Committee on Fisheries, Representative Austerman. Mr. Lauber said he thought the changes would be housekeeping in nature. He referred to page 4, lines 25 and 26, "(A) cash discounts allowed on sales, not to exceed one and one-half percent; and". He noted that was an old system, they now give 2 percent discounts for cash. Reiterating his desire not to hold up the bill's passage, he stated he was also interested in some provision to examine this three or five years down the line to see if it was being used. Mr. Lauber said if it was being used then leave it in place; if it was not, remove only the reporting part. He commented that it is three reports, noting he had previously objected to the change from two to three reports per year because of the extra workload. However, he said that was a small price to pay if it was going to help. Number 1844 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he was prepared to offer the suggested amendment, stating, "On page 4, line 25, to change 'one and one- half' to 'two' percent, which is current." He said that would be a very simple amendment to make and then they would have taken care of it. Number 1868 REPRESENTATIVE AUSTERMAN stated he did not have a problem with that change, but would like to have time to discuss the sunset clause. MR. LAUBER added he certainly agreed. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON clarified his statement had been a motion. Number 1887 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections to the motion before the committee. Hearing none, he stated the amendment was so adopted. Number 1892 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to move Version K of HB 392, as amended, to the next committee of referral with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note. Number 1910 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections. There being none, CSHB 392(L&C) was so moved. Number 1915 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:56 p.m. The committee came back to order at 3:57 p.m. SSHB 142 - BUSINESS PRACTICE REGULATIONS Number 1917 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated the committee's next order of business was SSHB 142, "An Act relating to the sale or transfer of new or used motor vehicles; relating to the confidentiality of certain information related to attorney general investigations of unlawful trade practices and antitrust activities; establishing additional unlawful trade practices; relating to the exemptions from telephonic solicitation regulation; regulating the sale of business opportunities; amending Rules 4 and 73, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective date." Number 1918 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY moved Version H of SSHB 142, labeled 0- LS0418\H, Bannister, dated 3/9/98, for discussion purposes. There being no objections, it was so ordered. Number 1944 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG called a brief at ease at 3:58 p.m. The committee came back to order at 3:59 p.m. Number 1955 SHIRLEY ARMSTRONG, Legislative Assistant to Representative Norman Rokeberg, came forward to explain the proposed committee substitute. She stated Version H includes a number of changes discussed at the last hearing. The sponsor had recommended deleting "new" (relating to new motor vehicles) from the title. She said this was accomplished as other sections were deleted. A second change was suggested by Michael Stepp of the Alaska Auto Dealers Association allowing the buyer to waive the right to the emissions certification (I/M) inspection. This new language is on page 2, line 8, of the proposed CS, and reads: * Sec.2. AS 45.45.400 is amended by adding a new subsection to read: (c) The requirements of (a) of this section do not apply if, before entering into the contract, the person who is engaged in the business of selling used motor vehicles obtains from the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee, or from the agent of the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee, a signed written statement that the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee, or the agent of the prospective buyer, transferee, or assignee, waives the requirements of (a) of this section. MS. ARMSTRONG indicated Daveed Schwartz, Assistant Attorney General, Commercial Section, Civil Division, Department of Law, said that this right cannot be waived under the consumer products statute if there is no statute to the contrary. She stated, "So for purposes of this section, for this purpose, you can waive it." Ms. Armstrong commented Sections 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of SSHB 142 have been deleted. She noted there were no problems associated with the information about mail-order and this was left intact in the new version [Section 7 on page 6, beginning on line 7, of SSHB 142 becomes Section 4, beginning on page 2, line 17, of Version H]. Ms. Armstrong said Chapter 66 had been reduced from 13 pages to 3 pages in the new version. She commented this was the smallest she could reduce it without eliminating it altogether, indicating it had been reduced to the items that would not make it an extra burden but still provide some information about business opportunity sellers coming from outside Alaska. She commented the registration and language about names and addresses of not only the seller but also the seller's agents has be retained, but there is no bonding requirement or similar requirements that were mentioned in the previous version. Number 2121 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if Version F was available yet to the automobile dealers in the Anchorage and Fairbanks areas. MS. ARMSTRONG indicated the committee had just received the bill and it was not yet available to those groups. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted this version adopts the language Mr. Stepp brought to the committee. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted he understood, but said he would feel more comfortable if the association had an opportunity to look at it. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated he was not touching this bill again. MS. ARMSTRONG said this is the fourth hearing on this bill. REPRESENTATIVE RYAN suggested the committee hold it for a while more. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG suggested the committee vote on the bill. Number 2160 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill's title met the single subject requirement. MS. ARMSTRONG said it all falls under Title 45, the consumer products portion of the statutes. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON confirmed that although the bill mixes used motor vehicles with telephonic solicitations and sales of business opportunities it still fit within the purviews of the statutes. He noted it seemed broad-based. Number 2192 MS. ARMSTRONG noted Section 45.66.050 of the proposed CS, on page 4, concerning the seller's records and files, had been retained from SSHB 142 but had been changed slightly [Section 45.66.170 of SSHB 142, page 15]. The original version required records to be kept for four years and this requires three, which is the same as for tax records. She commented Section 45.66.060, coordination with other laws, had also been in the original bill [Section 45.66.220 of SSHB 142, page 18]. Referring to Section 45.66.070 of the proposed CS, the exemptions, she noted Chairman Rokeberg had mentioned those individuals currently registered with the Division of Occupational Licensing for these kinds of activities should not have to register again. Ms. Armstrong stated Section 45.66.080, regulations, had been taken from the original bill [Section 45.66.230 of SSHB 142, page 18]. She said the definitions section had been reduced in the proposed CS and indicated that hopefully the definition of business opportunity is clearer. She commented that some of the definitions on page 5 of Version H had been taken from the previous version. Ms. Armstrong noted the bill had been reduced from 22 to 5 pages. Number 2251 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS referred to sales of business opportunities, asking if he would have to go through all this if he had a small business and wanted to sell it. MS. ARMSTRONG replied he would not if he used a real estate agent and she also did not think so if he was selling it on his own, for sale by owner (FISBO). REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked who would be affected by this. REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he would be affected by it if he wanted to franchise his business. Number 2274 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. Armstrong for clarification. MS. ARMSTRONG replied she did not know, commenting that there was someone from the department who could answer that question. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated Ms. Armstrong was very knowledgeable about the bill. He said he didn't know if there was a FISBO exception in the bill except for real estate licensees. Number 2284 MS. ARMSTRONG said the only reason she mentioned it is that under "0888" the new exemptions would cover that. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted that was just for real estate licenses and did not cover these, stating Representative Sanders' question is well-taken. Number 2295 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON referred to page 4, lines 27 and 28, under definition of business opportunities, which to him seems to include the seller or person recommended by the seller, "... the seller or person recommended will provide to the buyer services, ...". CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that's not clear. Number 2321 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he thinks this would apply to legitimate multi-level marketing companies which Amway Corporation set the standard for. He commented he didn't feel anything was broken here so nothing needed to be fixed. He thought it would provide a lot of employment for the consumer protection division of the attorney general's office but other than that he didn't know how they were furthering the public interest with passage of this bill. Number 2348 MS. ARMSTRONG referred to page 4, line 11, which speaks about coordination with other laws. She noted the previous bill used an entire page to list all the exemptions, and this version simply reads: (a) This chapter does not apply to a sale or offer to sell if regulation of the sale or offer is preempted by federal law. (b) Except as provided in (a) of this section, if this chapter conflicts with another provision of state law, the other provision of law governs to the extent of the conflict. Number 2371 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG reminded the committee that he believes the attorney general's objective in this section is to try to obtain some control and regulation over what is called the "ballroom sales pitch." Chairman Rokeberg said, however, he thinks the attorney general took the absolutely wrong approach, writing 16 pages of licensing law which this committee hates. He noted he appreciated Ms. Armstrong's efforts to winnow this down but thinks it creates as many problems as it tries to fix. MS. ARMSTRONG commented that was her best effort to reduce 22 pages without deleting every section. Number 2423 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to a 10,000 year old Persian saying found in the writings of Herodotus (ph), "A buyer needs a hundred eyes, a seller needs but one." Commenting on the role of personal responsibility he said it is impossible to protect everybody from everything, and he does not know that it is their job. Number 2445 DEB DAVIDSON, Legislative Administrative Assistant to Representative Gary Davis, came forward to testify as the sponsor's representative. She said she has had time to briefly review the proposed CS and appreciates the amount of hard work that went into it. She stated, "The question that came up regarding the type of businesses ... that might or not be covered, and the chairman was right in - in that the intent of that section is to cover those type ..." [TESTIMONY INTERRUPTED BY TAPE CHANGE] TAPE 98-28, SIDE B Number 0001 MS. DAVIDSON continued, "... just a slight suggestion is that in the original bill, there was a section of exemptions and although it may very well be covered ... in this phrasing that says federal law supersedes this and that if it's in conflict with another state statute the other state statute takes precedence, but what we could consider doing would be to just to put the section of exemptions back in to make it very clear, because those exemptions did cover the franchise." She noted it covered legitimate businesses such as Amway Corporation and Avon, and this might be a way to clarify that. She said the other changes still probably cover the sponsor's intent, noting he recognizes there are some difficult sections, and there are also a lot of sections in the bill he felt were important. Commenting that the bill has two more committees of referral and the sponsor's interest is in having the bill move forward, she said she believes he wouldn't have any major objections to what has been done. Referring to the deletion of the sections relating to confidentiality, Ms. Davidson said she didn't know if the sponsor had any strong feelings about that, noting it simply put current policy into statute. Number 0077 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated that the exemptions section in the original bill appear to be longer than bill version currently before the committee. REPRESENTATIVE RYAN commented it was similar to HB 33. Number 0097 MS. DAVIDSON said the exemptions section was actually about a page long, beginning on page 17 of the original bill and perhaps not all those exemptions are required. Number 0133 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG moved a conceptual amendment to adopt the provisions of Section 45.66.210 of the original sponsor substitute ; lines 8-31 on page 17 and lines 1-11 on page 18 ["lines 1 through 11 on line 18" stated on tape] of SSHB 142; going to the exemption section on page 4 of the proposed CS. There being no objections, the amendment was so adopted. Number 0177 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated he would make a motion to move the bill if the chairman was ready. Number 0183 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated he would like to support Representative Davis's bill but would prefer to have more time to study this version although he was not happy at the thought of another hearing. He commented he would like to at least put a "do not rec" on it. REPRESENTATIVE RYAN indicated he would like to hold the bill. Number 0215 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he wanted to follow the will of the committee. Number 0219 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred Mr. Schwartz's comment that a person, in giving a waiver, could not sign away that right under whatever federal provision and said he would like to hear some testimony from those in the automobile industry. He referred to extensive testimony the previous summer from the automobile dealers who, he said, seemed willing to go along to make those provisions palatable with their business. He indicated it would only be fair to give this group a chance to comment if the committee was going to change the bill so dramatically. Number 0257 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he would rather see the bill move, continuing its journey through the process, if it was not the chair's intention to bring it back up. He asked whether the chair would consider one more hearing. Number 0286 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the bill went to another committee. CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG replied it has two more House referrals. REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented he thought it would probably receive plenty of hearings in the next two committees, stating he did not think they could get much more out of this. Number 0297 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE made a motion to move the proposed CS for SSHB 142, as amended, with individual recommendations and zero fiscal note. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY objected to the motion. A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Rokeberg, Hudson, and Brice voted in favor of the motion. Representatives Cowdery, Sanders and Ryan voted against. Representative Kubina was absent. Therefore, CSSSHB 142(L&C) failed to move out of the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee with a vote of 3-3. ADJOURNMENT Number 0328 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting at 4:20 p.m.