Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/10/1994 03:00 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE                                   
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        February 10, 1994                                      
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Rep. Bill Hudson, Chair                                                      
  Rep. Joe Green, Vice Chair                                                   
  Rep. Brian Porter                                                            
  Rep. Joe Sitton                                                              
  Rep. Jerry Mackie                                                            
  Rep. Bill Williams                                                           
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  Rep. Eldon Mulder                                                            
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  *HB 386:  "An Act relating to the retirement rights of                       
            hourly employees hired by the legislature."                        
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
  *HB 145:  "An Act requiring pay equity for certain public                    
            employees and requiring the compensation of                        
            certain public employees based on the value of                     
            work performed."                                                   
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
  *HB 326:  "An Act providing that a political use is not an                   
            authorized use of charitable gaming proceeds;                      
            prohibiting the contribution of charitable gaming                  
            proceeds to candidates for certain public offices,                 
            their campaign organizations, or to political                      
            groups; providing that a political group is not a                  
            qualified organization for purposes of charitable                  
            gaming; relating to what is a qualified                            
            organization for the purpose of charitable gaming                  
            permitting; and providing for an effective date."                  
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
  *HB 308:  "An Act prohibiting the direct or indirect                         
            contribution or payment of the net proceeds of a                   
            bingo or pull-tab game to candidates for public                    
            office; and relating to the definition of                          
            `political organization' as that term is used in                   
            the laws relating to charitable gaming."                           
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  TIM BENINTENDI, Staff                                                        
  Rep. Carl Moses                                                              
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Position Statement:  Read sponsor statement for HB 386                       
  PAM STOOPS, Executive Director                                               
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  130 Seward St.                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-2197                                                   
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 386                                        
  DIANE LINDBECK, Staff                                                        
  Rep. Fran Ulmer                                                              
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Position Statement:  Represented prime sponsor of HB 145                     
  KEVIN RITCHIE, Director                                                      
  Division of Personnel/EEO                                                    
  Department of Administration                                                 
  P.O. Box 110201                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska  99811-0201                                                   
  Position Statement:  Addressed HB 145                                        
  DEBORAH TAYLOR                                                               
  2914 Leightone St.                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska  99517                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  RICHARD SEWARD                                                               
  315 Barnette St.                                                             
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  THERESA ANDERSON                                                             
  1237 Kennicott                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  DWYTE HUTCHINSON                                                             
  733 20th Ave.                                                                
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  BARBARA BINKER                                                               
  P.O. Box 74868                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99707                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  CATHY DIETRICH                                                               
  1951 Red Leaf Rd.                                                            
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  MARLENE RICE                                                                 
  P.O. Box 81741                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska  99708                                                     
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
                       (Spoke via teleconference)                              
  CAREN ROBINSON                                                               
  League of Women Voters                                                       
  P.O. Box 240423                                                              
  Douglas, Alaska  99824                                                       
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
  SHERRIE GOLL                                                                 
  Alaska Women's Lobby                                                         
  P.O. Box 22156                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                        
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 145                                        
  REP. GENE THERRIAULT                                                         
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Position Statement:  Prime sponsor of HB 308                                 
  REP. TERRY MARTIN                                                            
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Position Statement:  Prime sponsor of HB 326                                 
  MANO FREY, Executive President                                               
  2501 Commercial Drive                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                     
  Position Statement:  Opposed HB 308 and HB 326                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 386                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES                                                            
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/18/94      2098    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/18/94      2099    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                 
  02/10/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  BILL:  HB 145                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK                               
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ULMER,Sitton,Brown,Brice                       
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  04/20/83              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  02/10/93       292    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/10/93       292    (H)   L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE                      
  03/26/93       808    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE                              
  04/20/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  02/10/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  BILL:  HB 326                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Olberg,Green                            
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2012    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2012    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2012    (H)   L&C, STA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                     
  01/13/94      2054    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  OLBERG                            
  01/14/94      2083    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  GREEN                             
  02/10/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  BILL:  HB 308                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Olberg,Porter                       
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2007    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2007    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2007    (H)   L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,                   
  01/13/94      2053    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG, PORTER                     
  02/10/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 94-11, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 001                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m.                     
  Number 020                                                                   
  HB 386 - RETIREMENT RTS:HRLY LEGISLATIVE EMPLOYEES                           
  TIM BENINTENDI, staff, Rep. Carl Moses, gave the following                   
  sponsor statement:                                                           
  HB 386 has two main objections:  One, to provide an avenue                   
  for cost saving opportunities for the Legislative Affairs                    
  Agency, and two, to expand flexibility when hiring                           
  nonpermanent workers.                                                        
  MR. BENINTENDI noted that the sponsor has offered a                          
  committee substitute (CS) for the committee's benefit that                   
  more clearly states the intent to distinguish between                        
  permanent hourly and temporary who would be hired without                    
  the retirement benefits.                                                     
  Number 034                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked what they continued hourly employees.                      
  Number 046                                                                   
  PAM STOOPS, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency,                  
  explained that the hourly employees referenced here would be                 
  in maintenance and supply when hired for a short duration,                   
  summer tour guide people, persons retired from the state                     
  that might work temporarily in the print shop.  Also, in                     
  Public Services the Agency hires hourly employees to                         
  moderate teleconferences.                                                    
  MS. STOOPS noted that these people could go back and pay                     
  back the costs and pick up this temporary retirement time.                   
  REP. MACKIE asked if this would affect session only staff.                   
  MS. STOOPS responded that this would not affect his current                  
  staff; they are considered monthly paid seasonals.                           
  Number 080                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if this would affect any of the                        
  bargaining units.                                                            
  MS. STOOPS responded no.  She added that the executive                       
  branch has used this classification for years.                               
  Number 085                                                                   
  REP. SITTON asked if these employees would receive benefits                  
  such as workers' compensation.                                               
  Number 090                                                                   
  MS. STOOPS responded yes.                                                    
  Number 105                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked if there was or will there be a specific                   
  policy to describe exactly the employees referenced.  He                     
  expressed a specific concern that HB 386 not provide a means                 
  to hire employees and skirt around the benefits.                             
  Number 120                                                                   
  MS. STOOPS reiterated her desire to have the flexibility to                  
  hire as needed.                                                              
  REP. PORTER moved to adopt the L&C committee substitute for                  
  HB 386.  No objections were heard; it was so ordered.                        
  REP. PORTER moved CSHB 386(L&C) with individual                              
  recommendations and a negative fiscal note.  No objections                   
  were heard; it was so ordered.                                               
  Number 204                                                                   
  HB 145 - PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK                                   
  DIANE LINDBECK, staff, Rep. Fran Ulmer, Prime Sponsor of HB
  145, testified that HB 145 has been before the legislature                   
  before.  She stated that it basically provides a mechanism                   
  for providing pay equity for public employees.  Ms. Lindbeck                 
  stated that when a job class is dominated by primarily one                   
  gender, they are not comparably paid.                                        
  MS. LINDBECK stated that in Alaska as well as the rest of                    
  the nation women on average are paid less than men for                       
  comparable work.  These wage disparities exist not just                      
  between individuals but between job classes.                                 
  MS. LINDBECK concluded by saying that passage HB 145 would                   
  set the standard for pay equity.                                             
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked what the difference was between pay                    
  equity and comparable worth.                                                 
  Number 250                                                                   
  KEVIN RITCHIE, Director, Division of Personnel/EEO,                          
  Department of Administration, testified that the system                      
  proposed in HB 145 classifies each job on the same list of                   
  factors.  Taking a certain number of job factors; i.e.,                      
  number of people supervised, consequence of error in                         
  judgement for example; you rank each job, equating pay, with                 
  how they rank on the same set of factors.  This is a more                    
  objective way of setting pay than the state uses right now.                  
  MR. RITCHIE believed the words comparable worth versus pay                   
  equity are the same thing.                                                   
  Number 275                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked about a study commissioned years ago                   
  to do the basic groundwork on how are existing system                        
  compared with providing equitable pay for all state workers.                 
  Number 284                                                                   
  MR. RITCHIE explained that the Department of Administration                  
  proposes to revise the Alaska Quantitative Evaluation System                 
  done in 1986, bringing it up to date and implementing it.                    
  Number 291                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if the fiscal note provided is for the                     
  purpose stated above.                                                        
  Number 295                                                                   
  MR. RITCHIE responded yes.  He added that the Department                     
  strongly recommends that the committee consider the                          
  substitute provided that would accomplish the same end                       
  through a different vehicle.                                                 
  Number 325                                                                   
  DEBORAH TAYLOR testified via teleconference in support of                    
  HB 145.  Ms. Taylor gave as an example of pay inequity the                   
  male dominated grant coordinator position at a range 18                      
  versus the female dominated eligibility technician in the                    
  Division of Public assistance at a range 13.  She said this                  
  bill needs to be passed out of committee to lift the morale                  
  of those employees who are not receiving fair pay for                        
  comparable work.                                                             
  Number 356                                                                   
  RICHARD SEWARD, Alaska State Employees Association (ASEA),                   
  testified via teleconference in support of HB 145.  Mr.                      
  Seward stated that the ASEA is a national leader on pay                      
  equity.  Mr. Seward added that they have done studies in                     
  this area in Alaska and have found that a majority of jobs                   
  are segregated by sex.  He noted that 48% of all state jobs                  
  had 70% or more men, while 24% of all job classes had 70% or                 
  more women.  Of the 13,542 employees surveyed, 55% were men                  
  and 45% were women, but 39% of all state employees are now                   
  working in male dominated job classes and 32% of all                         
  employees are in female dominated job classes.  He stated                    
  there is a pay difference between the male and female                        
  dominated job classes.  Mr. Seward advised that a female                     
  earns 75 cents to the dollar earned by men.                                  
  MR. SEWARD related to the committee that his study showed                    
  that if no academic requirements are found in the minimum                    
  qualifications for a job, the woman will earn 72 cents to                    
  the dollar earned by the man.  If high school is required,                   
  the woman will earn 87 cents to the man's dollar.  If a                      
  technical degree is required, the woman earns 71 cents to                    
  the man's dollar.  With a college degree, the woman earns 87                 
  cents to the man's dollar.                                                   
  MR. SEWARD stated that ASEA strongly opposes the                             
  administration's proposal for two reasons:  1) it does away                  
  with collective bargaining, and 2) it will not benefit the                   
  women on the state payroll now.                                              
  Number 415                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented, if Mr. Seward had a plan that                     
  would show how to implement a pay equity plan without                        
  increasing the budget, please send it.                                       
  Number 420                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD replied that he would be glad to forward to the                   
  committee the experience gathered from other states.                         
  Number 439                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked Mr. Seward what the gender split in ASEA's                 
  membership was.                                                              
  Number 441                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD responded that within the general membership                      
  there was between 52 to 55% female.                                          
  Number 455                                                                   
  REP. WILLIAMS asked, when the study was done, did it compare                 
  the same types of jobs?                                                      
  Number 460                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD explained that the study looked at all job                        
  classes that required a college degree for someone to get on                 
  the list to be hired into that job and then it compared the                  
  pay of all the jobs classes requiring a college degree.  It                  
  was then divided up into those job classes where there was                   
  70% or more of the employees who were women compared to                      
  those classes where 70% or more of the employees were men.                   
  The only common characteristic was that each had to have a                   
  college degree to be hired; then the study compared the pay.                 
  Number 470                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked if they were the same jobs.  For instance,                 
  two people working side-by-side doing the exact same thing,                  
  with the male making more then the female.                                   
  Number 486                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD stated that if a job class is primarily filled by                 
  women, then the pay range is likely to be less then a                        
  similar job class filled primarily be men.                                   
  MR. SEWARD used the example of nurse practitioner largely                    
  filled by women versus physician assistants largely filled                   
  by men.  They generally do the same thing day by day, but                    
  the physician assistants make more money.                                    
  REP. PORTER asked why the union allowed the wage disparities                 
  to happen in the first place.                                                
  Number 514                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD responded that his predecessor took it to court                   
  and the Supreme Court ruled that everyone in the same job                    
  class had to be paid the same.  The law of the land is not                   
  comparable worth and the court couldn't do anything to help                  
  the women.  So the union came to the legislature for help.                   
  Number 522                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if the union is or will be negotiating                     
  with the state on the positions that the union feels are                     
  Number 527                                                                   
  MR. SEWARD said the state is refusing to bargain on these                    
  proposals.  He added that the state does not have to bargain                 
  on which job classes they pay what pay ranges; they only                     
  have to bargain on the dollar amount given to the ranges.                    
  Number 550                                                                   
  THERESA ANDERSON testified via teleconference in support of                  
  HB 145.  She said many men and women who are the sole                        
  support of their families need pay equity.                                   
  MS. ANDERSON stated that the wage gap between men and women                  
  was even narrower in 1955 then it was in 1984.  This gap                     
  will never close until pay equity is the law.  The state                     
  budget should not be balanced on the backs of the females of                 
  the state or the males who are in the job classes dominated                  
  by females.                                                                  
  MS. ANDERSON noted that employers set wages using factors of                 
  which market value of supply and demand is only one.  Other                  
  factors include internal equity, pay progression methods and                 
  comparative structure.  The external market does not exist                   
  independently, it is created by wage setting decisions by                    
  employers with constraints placed on it by existing laws.                    
  She noted that, despite decreases in the supply of clerical                  
  workers and nurses in 1985, wages did not increase                           
  automatically for these jobs.                                                
  TAPE 94-10, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 001                                                                   
  MS. ANDERSON said the state continues to deny or explain                     
  away the differences between the wages between men and                       
  women, ignoring study after study.  The state finally                        
  proposes that women switch jobs if they want more pay.                       
  MS. ANDERSON concluded by saying that pay equity has been                    
  studied in the past but not implemented.  She suggested that                 
  the state doesn't need more studies, but needs to apply                      
  sound compensation principals to men's jobs as well as                       
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if Ms. Anderson knew of any models the                 
  legislature could look at to help them in their                              
  MS. ANDERSON stated that she was not advocating lowering the                 
  male dominated wages; it is illegal, but there are states,                   
  such as Minnesota, that have implemented pay equity and have                 
  been very successful.  She added that the information is                     
  readily available.                                                           
  Number 075                                                                   
  REP. ULMER stated that HB 145 is modeled on the Minnesota                    
  law.  She added that federal law states that you cannot                      
  implement wage equity on the backs of someone else.                          
  Number 117                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if there is a federal law on comparable                    
  Number 120                                                                   
  REP. ULMER responded that there is a federal law and they                    
  requested the states to pass and implement their own.                        
  Number 125                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked Rep. Ulmer is she was aware of any suits                   
  brought in the states that challenged the situation that a                   
  generally similar qualification requirement in one class                     
  versus another class that has a pay equity problem is                        
  REP. ULMER responded that the State of Washington went                       
  through lengthy litigation regarding this issue.                             
  Number 134                                                                   
  DWYTE HUTCHINSON testified via teleconference in support of                  
  HB 145.  He stated that he is in a very dominated field; he                  
  feels that the responsibilities and technical work he is                     
  required to do is well beyond the level of pay he is at now.                 
  Number 155                                                                   
  BARBARA BINKER testified via teleconference that this issue                  
  is plain and simple one of fairness to everyone.  Ms. Binker                 
  supported HB 145.  She said women don't want back pay, they                  
  just want to be treated fairly.  Ms. Binker stated she wants                 
  to see her daughter be able to choose a career and make a                    
  comfortable living at it.                                                    
  Number 183                                                                   
  KATHY DIETRICH testified via teleconference that she is in                   
  support of HB 145.  She stated that the administration's                     
  proposal is more then just a change in the vehicle, it's a                   
  substantive change.  She explained that, currently, if your                  
  job class is determined to be improperly classed, then those                 
  in the job class would move to the new range, but they would                 
  take their present step with them to the new range.  The                     
  administration's proposal would eliminate that.                              
  MS. DIETRICH stated that it is past the time when women are                  
  going out to work for curtain money.  Most of the women in                   
  the work force today are doing it out of necessity.  But                     
  this is not a women's issue, she said, it is an issue of                     
  fairness for both men and women.                                             
  MS. DIETRICH expressed frustration at the thought of more                    
  studies being done.  She said, let's stop studying the issue                 
  and implement pay equity.                                                    
  Number 270                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE expressed support for this issue but admitted                    
  that at times it is confusing and he did not want his line                   
  of questions to be misconstrued to mean he was against the                   
  Number 300                                                                   
  MARLENE RICE testified via teleconference in support of HB
  145.  She stated that she was frustrated with having to show                 
  persons that make double and triple what she makes how to                    
  work the computer.  She has applied for jobs in the upper                    
  ranges only to come in second to a man.  Ms. Rice stated she                 
  wanted to know how come her sons, who just graduated high                    
  school, are making what she does after four years on the                     
  Number 333                                                                   
  CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, testified in support                 
  of HB 145.  She stated that in 1963 President John F.                        
  Kennedy signed into law the equal pay act guaranteeing women                 
  equal pay for equal work.  Now, 31 years later, women are                    
  still 30% behind men in earnings.                                            
  MS. ROBINSON stated that female dominated jobs are                           
  undervalued.  She added that this bias has to stop, and she                  
  believes it's time to stop studying it and do something                      
  about it.                                                                    
  MS. ROBINSON added that the state may find some savings in                   
  some aid programs if it would pay women fairly for the work                  
  that they do.                                                                
  Number 385                                                                   
  SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, testified in support of                  
  HB 145.  She stated that Margaret Mead, the noted                            
  anthropologist, has said that there was a pervasive social                   
  bias against the value of women's work and that it occurs in                 
  almost all human cultures.  In Ms. Mead's work she found                     
  many villages in which the women fish and the men weave, and                 
  what was similar in these villages was that the work done by                 
  women was less valued.                                                       
  MS. GOLL stated that the discrimination against women goes                   
  back to 1865 when the federal government bought its first                    
  typewriter.  Female clerks were paid $600.00 per year and                    
  male clerks $1200.00 per year.                                               
  MS. GOLL added that in the old days the reason given for the                 
  inequality was that the men were the bread winners, but as                   
  we know now, we have many families headed by women.                          
  MS. GOLL concluded by saying that the administration's                       
  proposal is basically the way the earlier bill was killed                    
  because it eliminates collective bargaining.                                 
  REP. PORTER asked what the basic differences were between                    
  the original bill and the administration's proposal.                         
  MR. RITCHIE answered that the vehicle was essentially the                    
  same.  The proposal is not a method of creating equity                       
  between the sexes only or identifying some jobs and raising                  
  them, it's basically a fundamental change in the entire                      
  classification system.                                                       
  MR. RITCHIE stated that one difference is that the study                     
  will be implemented under the administration's proposal.  He                 
  believes that a partial implementation is detrimental to the                 
  issue.  Lastly, the administration's proposal has a meet and                 
  confer type of relationship with the union rather then                       
  Number 500                                                                   
  REP. ULMER stated that the CS eliminates the ability of the                  
  union to bargain and would eliminate the ability to get any                  
  pay increases as a result of the pay equity determination.                   
  Number 503                                                                   
  REP. PORTER summed up what he believes the differences to                    
  be.  He said both approaches do a study and reach the same                   
  results; HB 145 would allow the study to be used in actual                   
  labor negotiations, as opposed to the administration's                       
  approach to meet and confer with the union, but the results                  
  of the study would be implemented in any event.                              
  Number 520                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated he felt the committee had a good                      
  grasp of this issue.  He added that this issue seemed to be                  
  boiling down to the financing of the implementation and not                  
  any disagreement of the concept of the fairness issue.                       
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON gave a brief history of his dealings with                    
  job classifications and their pay ranges.                                    
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated that the question is, how do we                       
  determine what the new classes aught to be, what will be the                 
  cost, and how will we implement it?                                          
  Number 565                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE moved HB 145 with individual recommendations and                 
  a zero fiscal note.  No objections were heard; it was so                     
  TAPE 94-11, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 001                                                                   
  HB 308 - LIMIT POLITICAL USE OF GAMBLING PROCEEDS                            
  HB 326 - GAMING PROCEEDS/DEFINE CHARITABLE ORG'NS                            
  REP. GENE THERRIAULT, Prime Sponsor of HB 308, stated that                   
  basically he introduced the bill because he believes                         
  charitable gambling should be just that.  The proceeds                       
  should go to charity and not political parties.  He said HB
  308 would modify current statutes by adding a provision to                   
  prohibit the use of net proceeds from charitable gaming                      
  activities for candidates for public office or that                          
  candidate's organization.  He stated HB 308 would also                       
  expand the definition of a political organization to include                 
  political parties.  Current definitions limit "political                     
  organizations" to organizations or clubs organized for or                    
  formally affiliated with a political party.  This expansion                  
  will cover all political and quasi-political organizations                   
  and supplement the effect of Section 1.                                      
  Number 075                                                                   
  REP. TERRY MARTIN explained that when you mix gambling and                   
  politics and it becomes acceptable you have the worst                        
  scenario for corrupt government.                                             
  REP. MARTIN stated that Alaska is the only state that allows                 
  political parties or candidates to receive money from                        
  gaming.  This bill would prohibit this.                                      
  REP. MARTIN believed that the political parties end up                       
  competing for the same dollars with charities.                               
  Number 192                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked Rep. Martin to describe to him how money                   
  from gaming causes corrupt government and also how that is                   
  different from someone getting money from an oil company or                  
  from any other interest group.                                               
  Number 235                                                                   
  REP. MARTIN responded that he has looked through the files                   
  of APOC.  He brought up the file of the District 11                          
  Democrats where each month the proceeds from the Northern                    
  Light Bingo parlor goes into their fund and whoever is in                    
  charge of the District 11 Democrats is in charge of                          
  funneling the money back out to candidates.                                  
  REP. MARTIN gave more examples of how the money comes in and                 
  how it's funneled out.                                                       
  Number 300                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked again how gaming money, as opposed to oil                  
  money, causes corruption in government.  He said it's all                    
  Number 320                                                                   
  REP. MARTIN responded that history shows us that it causes                   
  corruption.  Also, there are no limits on what can be given.                 
  Number 340                                                                   
  REP. MACKIE asked for an example of corruption and stated                    
  that he believes this bill would just be legislating                         
  Number 350                                                                   
  REP. MARTIN responded with some facts about some state                       
  legislators getting into trouble in various states involving                 
  Number 365                                                                   
  REP. THERRIAULT stated that he didn't believe the people of                  
  Alaska meant for charitable gaming proceeds to be funneled                   
  into politics.  He added that the key word is "charitable."                  
  REP. MACKIE suggested that if disclosure was the objection,                  
  then why not post a sign at the pull tab location stating                    
  who owned the permit and where the proceeds will go and                      
  allow people to make their own judgments.                                    
  Number 391                                                                   
  REP. GREEN asked how permits are acquired now.                               
  Number 420                                                                   
  REP. MARTIN responded with an explanation of the current                     
  Number 450                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked the Director of Gaming to prepare for                  
  the committee a laymen summary of how the application is                     
  made, what controls the Division has on applicants, and what                 
  percentage goes into charity versus political parties and                    
  Number 482                                                                   
  MANO FREY, Executive President, AFL/CIO, testified against                   
  HB 308 and HB 326.  Mr. Frey stated that the AFL/CIO does                    
  have a gaming permit, but does not make any direct political                 
  contributions.  He added that they rely on the proceeds from                 
  their gaming permits to run their operations and staff.                      
  MR. FREY added that he is also the business manager of Local                 
  341 and that organization does utilize its gaming proceeds                   
  to make political contributions to candidates.  But most of                  
  the proceeds go toward scholarships, little league and other                 
  community events.                                                            
  MR. FREY stated that HB 326 would hurt the Laborer's chance                  
  to make money in this way and he expressed resentment at the                 
  fact that his organization is being signaled out.                            
  Number 530                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced he would hold HB 308 and HB 326                    
  over for more information.                                                   
  CHAIRMAN HUDSON adjourned the meeting at 5:22 p.m.                           

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