Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/29/1996 01:15 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 29, 1996
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Brian Porter, Chairman
Representative Joe Green, Vice Chairman
Representative Con Bunde
Representative Al Vezey
Representative Cynthia Toohey
Representative David Finkelstein
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bettye Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR SENATE BILL NO. 175(FIN) am
"An Act relating to correctional institutions and their
administration, and to services provided to prisoners; amending the
definition of `severely medically disabled' applicable to prisoners
seeking special medical parole; and amending provisions of the
correctional industries program, and extending the termination date
of the Correctional Industries Commission and the program."
- PASSED HCSCSSSSB 175(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 175
SHORT TITLE: "NO FRILLS" PRISON ACT
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) DONLEY, Pearce, Halford, Leman, Kelly,
Sharp, Green, Torgerson, Miller, Taylor, R. Phillips
JRN-DATE JRN-DATE ACTION
05/06/95 1552 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
05/06/95 1552 (S) JUD, FIN
01/22/96 2197 (S) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED-
NEW TITLE
01/22/96 2198 (S) REFERRAL(S) JUD, FIN
01/22/96 2197 (S) COSPONSOR: PEARCE
02/12/96 (S) JUD AT 2:10 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/12/96 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
02/14/96 2424 (S) JUD RPT CS 3DP 1DNP 1NR SAME TITLE
02/14/96 2424 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DHSS)
02/20/96 (S) FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532
02/20/96 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
02/21/96 2486 (S) FIN RPT CS 4DP 1NR SAME TITLE
02/21/96 2487 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS (CORR)
02/21/96 2487 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FISCAL NOTE TO CS(DHSS)
02/21/96 2498 (S) COSPONSOR(S): HALFORD
02/23/96 (S) RLS AT 10:45 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203
02/23/96 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
02/26/96 2538 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 2/26/96
02/26/96 2541 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
02/26/96 2541 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/26/96 2541 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/26/96 2541 (S) AM TO AM 2 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/26/96 2543 (S) AM NO 2 AS AM FAILED Y9 N11
02/26/96 2543 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
02/26/96 2543 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME
CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM
02/26/96 2543 (S) COSPONSOR(S): LEMAN, KELLY, SHARP,
02/26/96 2543 (S) TORGERSON, MILLER, TAYLOR, PHILLIPS
02/26/96 2543 (S) PASSED Y14 N6
02/26/96 2544 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
02/28/96 2569 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING
02/28/96 2569 (S) AM NO 3 NOT OFFERED
02/28/96 2569 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 4
UNAN CONSENT
02/28/96 2569 (S) AM NO 4 FAILED Y8 N10 E2
02/28/96 2570 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
02/28/96 2570 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 5
UNAN CONSENT
02/28/96 2570 (S) AM NO 5 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
02/28/96 2570 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
02/28/96 2570 (S) RECON HELD 3/6/96 CALENDAR UNAN
CONSENT
03/06/96 2628 (S) MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
03/06/96 2630 (S) RECONSIDERATION BEFORE SENATE
03/06/96 2630 (S) RETURN TO 2ND FOR AM 6
03/06/96 2630 (S) AM NO 6 FAILED Y7 N11 E2
03/06/96 2631 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
03/06/96 2631 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 7
UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2631 (S) AM NO 7 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2632 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
03/06/96 2632 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 8
UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2632 (S) AM NO 8 ADOPTED Y11 N7 E2
03/06/96 2633 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
03/06/96 2633 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 9
UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2634 (S) AM NO 9 OFFERED BY ZHAROFF
03/06/96 2634 (S) AM 1 TO AM 9 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2634 (S) AM 2 TO AM 9 ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT
03/06/96 2634 (S) AM NO 9 AS AMENDED ADOPTED UNAN
CONSENT
03/06/96 2634 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
03/06/96 2635 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14 N4 E2
03/06/96 2636 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/08/96 3018 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/08/96 3018 (H) JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/29/96 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 11
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3892
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement and answered
questions on SB 175.
JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Corrections
240 Main Street, Suite 700
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4640
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered
questions regarding SB 175.
ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General
Criminal Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Telephone: (907) 465-3428
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided department's position and answered
questions regarding SB 175.
THOMAS MEYER, Committee Aide
House Judiciary Committee
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 118
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-4990
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions on amendments to SB 175.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 96-45, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER called the House Judiciary Committee meeting
to order at 1:15 p.m. Members present at the call to order were
Representatives Porter, Green, Vezey and Toohey. Representatives
Finkelstein and Bunde joined the meeting at 1:19 p.m. and 1:37
p.m., respectively. Absent was Representative B. Davis.
SB 175 - "NO FRILLS" PRISON ACT
Number 0053
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY, sponsor of SB 175, explained that the bill
responded to legislation sponsored by Chairman Porter two years
before, relating to the constitutional amendment on victims'
rights. That legislation contained a section addressing the penal
administration section of the Alaska Constitution, adding
provisions for community condemnation, victims' rights and
restitution. The bill moved towards facilitating that language,
which was adopted by the voters in the last general election as a
constitutional amendment, Senator Donley said.
SENATOR DONLEY stated that SB 175 enhanced the reformation clause
of the constitution by providing additional vocational training
opportunities for prisoners. Language to that effect had been
added to the original legislation at the request of the Department
of Corrections. The bill helped protect public safety by making
absolutely clear that there should be no martial arts training or
equipment in prisons, with which the Department of Corrections
agreed. It also banned body-building equipment, which Senator
Donley thought would enable violent prisoners to increase their
strength.
SENATOR DONLEY referred to the community condemnation language
adopted by voters and said SB 175 addressed this by eliminating
luxuries in Alaska prisons. Modeled after the federal no-frills
prison act currently before the U.S. Congress, the provision banned
compact disc players, VCRs, personal computers and premium cable
television within inmates' individual cells. It also put in
statute the Department of Corrections' present ban on pornographic
materials and prohibited violent movies. Senator Donley believed
prison personnel would welcome the provision.
Number 0330
SENATOR DONLEY explained that compact disc players and computers
had already been banned from federal prisons. Some suggested
compact discs could easily be used as weapons. Although prisoners
paid for premium cable television themselves, many Alaskans could
not afford that luxury and found it offensive, he said. The final
Senate version of SB 175 allowed prisoners television with basic
cable in their rooms if they paid for it themselves, got a GED,
were engaged in educational programs, had complied with any court
orders for alcohol or drug treatment, and had made proper
restitution to victims. Senator Donley thought that might provide
powerful incentives.
Number 0514
SENATOR DONLEY said the bill contained a cost-saving measure to
increase the potential number of prisoners who could be paroled
because of catastrophic illnesses or medical conditions that made
them nonthreatening to the public. Language instituted the
previous year had only applied to prisoners who were bedridden.
However, prisoners in wheelchairs, for example, had been ineligible
for that program. Once a person was no longer in the prison
system, he or she became eligible for federal funds for medical
care, which could provide enormous cost savings based on even one
paroled prisoner. This savings had not been reflected in the
fiscal note because of the infrequency of qualifying people,
Senator Donley added.
Number 0607
CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to criteria that must be met to receive
primary cable television. He assumed if a person had already been
a high school graduate or had a GED, they were "past phase one."
SENATOR DONLEY concurred.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if such a person would need to be engaged in
an educational program.
SENATOR DONLEY replied that a prisoner who already had a GED would
have to be in some sort of educational or vocational program.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if such a program would be available to
everybody.
Number 0703
SENATOR DONLEY suggested the Department of Corrections could answer
that. If it were not available, he thought it should be. He
mentioned that the bill allowed computers for vocational purposes
in common areas and expressed support for Representative
Finkelstein's upcoming amendment to add educational use of
computers. Senator Donley clarified that televisions in common
areas could have cable.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked, "Do you consider, when you're excluding
body-building equipment, that you are excluding normal ... exercise
equipment?"
SENATOR DONLEY replied there was no intent to exclude aerobic
training equipment. "What I'm concerned about is machinery that
actually enhances development of muscles," he said, indicating he
felt strongly about it. He suggested people could do push-ups or
other exercises on their own, without high-tech equipment.
Number 0856
REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN referred to page 4, line 2, which
prohibited prisoners from viewing unrated movies. He suggested
that numerous educational and obscure movies were unrated.
SENATOR DONLEY indicated the intent was to prohibit violent or
pornographic movies that were unrated. He said he would have no
problem with adding language that said "unless it's an educational
film or unless it's approved by the department, movies without
ratings should be prohibited".
Number 0950
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY asked how many of the conditions in the
bill were now beyond the control of the commissioner of the
Department of Corrections.
SENATOR DONLEY replied, "I believe the Cleary settlement includes
some requirements for body-building equipment and I don't consider
that a prohibition to the legislature putting it into statute ...
because I don't think that was mandated under either the federal or
the state constitution that they be provided with that. And the
state statute, then, would subsequently overrule that, because that
was a settlement, not a court order, and the state would simply
renegotiate. Based on recent United States Supreme Court cases,
it's clear that those kind of settlements with prisoners are
available for modification by states. So, I would say without a
statute, that that would be beyond the current jurisdiction of the
department unless they took that initiative on their own, because
right now, they've agreed to that in the Cleary settlement. I
guess you could say that ... under that line of new cases, they
could go in and modify the Cleary settlement. So, given that, they
would have the ability to be flexible there and actually prohibit
those kind of things. Other than that, I think the commissioner
probably has the authority to do everything here if they wanted
to."
Number 1039
SENATOR DONLEY indicated the Cleary settlement, which he had
recently reread, discussed phone calls. "I think we have an
amendment to make this consistent with existing statute on phone
calls," he said.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if Senator Donley was of the opinion
that provided the Administration was willing to deal with the court
under the new laws and new court rulings addressing the Cleary
decision, that the majority of items in SB 175 could be addressed
administratively.
SENATOR DONLEY replied, "That's what I've been able to figure out
so far."
Number 1113
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY referred to Section 2 and recalled that a
couple years previously, the legislature had worked hard to put
that wording in statute. He asked for reasons behind changes
proposed for that section.
SENATOR DONLEY referred to page 1, line 13, and said, "By removing
the `confined to bed', you open it up for the possibility of
somebody who's in a wheelchair or ... maybe their arms are disabled
but their legs still work." The Department of Corrections had
estimated there would be ten qualifying people per year, with the
"confined to bed" wording. However, there had only been "about
five."
Number 1195
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated the original idea was to have a very
narrow window, only for people who would definitely not be a threat
to society. "They were basically characterized as terminally ill
people," he recalled. He questioned whether someone confined to a
wheelchair would necessarily be completely nonthreatening. He
asked if the idea was to open up the window and enlarge the
population available for the exception.
SENATOR DONLEY affirmed that. "And it's such a small population
that the department, in hearings in Senate Finance, said they
couldn't even, for sure, say there'd even be one," he said. "But
there could be. And that's why there's no fiscal note saying we're
going to save `x' amount of dollars."
Number 1245
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded to Representative Vezey, "We keep
thinking that the prison population is a young, virile group.
There's some old, old people in the prison system now that have
been there a long time and will remain there for a long time." She
suggested people who had a stroke could often walk with a walker,
but not well. In addition, people with advanced cases of AIDS were
not necessarily confined to bed or a wheelchair but had limited
ability.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY suggested that if reform were to be addressed,
including constitutional change and its impact on Cleary, the size
of prisoners' living quarters was the most important consideration.
Number 1340
SENATOR DONLEY indicated that square footage per prisoner was
specified in Cleary, which was settled out of court. He was
currently looking into how that settlement related to the minimum
federal constitutional standard.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the Cleary settlement carried the weight
of a court order.
SENATOR DONLEY said, "It does, but since the court didn't make a
finding that it was required, we don't know what the court would
actually require."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked: "Since we haven't done anything
to reduce the prison overpopulation, since the new prisons that may
or may not be built are at least a few years off, since we've
passed plenty of laws that are going to be sending more people into
the prisons, why would it ever be in our interest to renegotiate
the Cleary settlement?"
Number 1419
SENATOR DONLEY said the mandated physical space was specified in
terms of square footage in the Cleary settlement, which also
limited the number of prisoners per room, both in dormitory
conditions and cells for individuals. "If that amount was more
than is required under the constitution, you might be able to save
some money with new prison construction," he suggested. Since it
had not been ruled on by the court, however, he did not know the
answer.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he did not know, either. He wanted to
find out the square footage requirements under Cleary, as well as
the minimum federal standards. "And before we let this bill out of
committee, I would like to actually put that in statute, that that
is the maximum standard that we will establish," he said,
suggesting the possibility of placing additional prisoners in
existing facilities. He asked if Senator Donley had academic
studies on the impact of physical training on the prison
population. He wondered if it would make felons meaner or make
better citizens out of them.
Number 1520
SENATOR DONLEY replied he had no such information. He indicated he
had seen the ban on body-building equipment in the federal act and
added that it had always bothered him personally.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he questioned that. Physical training
was an integral part of all educational programs geared toward
young men and it taught self-respect, which carried over to respect
for others, he said. Although he appreciated the motive, he was
uncertain the means would accomplish the desired end. He referred
to television in prisons and said it was a cheap baby-sitter. He
speculated that prison guards would advocate its use.
SENATOR DONLEY responded that many prisons nationwide did not allow
televisions in rooms. He thought all had them in common areas,
however, which this bill would allow. In many prisons, there were
also headphones for use in common areas, he said.
Number 1784
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if prisoners qualifying for premium cable
television in their rooms would have to have completed restitution
or whether they would qualify if they had a plan on which they were
current.
SENATOR DONLEY replied he had heard a proposal to modify it to say
that if there was a plan, and the person was making payments, they
would qualify. "I don't think that's unreasonable," he said. "The
problem I personally had with it is it's kind of hard to explain to
the victim how the prisoner can afford to buy cable TV in their
room but they couldn't afford to compensate them for the damage
they did to them when they committed a crime." He reiterated that
he thought it was reasonable.
Number 1784
CHAIRMAN PORTER said that some of the bills a prisoner would owe
might be substantial. The motivation for maintaining payments
would be helpful. "There isn't any requirement for them to make
restitution," he added.
SENATOR DONLEY said, "If the committee feels strongly about that,
I have language drafted that would do that. It wasn't my intent to
offer it, but if any member of the committee wants to, I've got
that drafted."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY referred to the rating of movies and
suggested removing the language "or do not have ratings", citing
the reason that many educational films were unrated. She asked if
prisoners were allowed VCRs in their rooms and commented that many
educational programs came on tape.
Number 1857
SENATOR DONLEY said he thought it was clearly appropriate to have
a common area where prisoners could watch educational video tapes.
However, he thought having them in individual cells was
problematic. He emphasized that the bill would not prohibit
watching instructional video tapes in a common area.
SENATOR DONLEY read from a document and informed the committee of
the size requirements under Cleary, which specified a minimum of 60
square feet for one inmate; 80 square feet for two; and 140 square
feet for three. It also said that future facilities may not
provide for housing of inmates in dormitories, except for minimum
security. He was unsure of the definition of dormitory. He
thought it was unfortunate that was specified in the settlement.
CHAIRMAN PORTER stated his understanding that the Department of
Law's opinion was that the statute would technically override the
Cleary agreement, although there would probably be lawsuits.
Number 1968
JERRY SHRINER, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Corrections, testified that he had worked extensively
with Senator Donley on the bill. He indicated that the department
liked some provisions and disliked others. While the department
understood Senator Donley's concern about public perception of
frills, the department did not see it that way nor think of the
prison system as pleasant. Fundamentally, those in charge thought
facilities were being handled appropriately and in line with not
only rehabilitation but also public condemnation.
MR. SHRINER indicated they were trying to curb smoking but that it
was not a simple problem. Similarly, they did not want to just
walk into facilities and announce the weights were being removed.
"We're not necessarily opposed to some of these things, but some of
them take awhile," he said.
Number 2108
MR. SHRINER said some parts of the bill got into areas that
belonged to the correctional superintendents, sergeants, and
personnel who knew what was needed to manage those facilities.
"They don't see television as a frill," he emphasized. "They see
television as a management tool or, as Representative Vezey said,
a baby-sitter. ... From their point of view, a guy who's in his
room watching television is a guy who's not in the day room ...
where they have to pay more attention to him than ... if he's in
his cell. And when you're a correction officer and maybe there's
only one other CO on duty that night, and you've got 100 or more
prisoners to watch, they like the comfort of knowing that ... most
of those guys are in their room, the door's locked, and they're not
causing any trouble while they're down there."
Number 2160
MR. SHRINER referred to medical parole and said Senator Donley was
correct that in years past, there had been estimates that maybe 30
or 40 people could be let out under that provision. However, when
the bill passed the previous year, it was found there were four to
six people who qualified. Moving them out of the system allowed
great savings for medical care as they moved onto
Medicare/Medicaid, he said, emphasizing that it was not out of
sympathy or a belief that the sentencing was wrong that they were
paroled. Mr. Shriner concluded by saying department personnel felt
it was important for people to have their own computers for
education.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented on the irony that a person had to be
19 years old to use tobacco outside of prison, but not inside. He
asked if anything in the bill could address that and commented that
the state should be enforcing its own laws.
MR. SHRINER stated he had that question, too, and that he would be
glad to pursue it.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if it was part of Cleary.
MR. SHRINER replied he would get an answer.
Number 2314
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the requirement of the bill to have
smoking in designated areas precluded cells.
MR. SHRINER replied, "As I read the bill, I don't think it
precludes smoking in their cells." In five Alaska institutions,
there was no smoking at all; he understood that in the remaining
ones, "designated area" meant either outside in the yard or in a
particular room. He did not think there was any smoking in cells
currently.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if the provision would, then, have no affect
on policy.
MR. SHRINER responded, "I don't think so. This is one of those
issues where we really agree and we just need some time to keep
moving on it."
CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested this would provide the time if the
department wanted to totally phase it out. He asked Mr. Shriner if
the square foot requirements were, to his knowledge, greater or
lower than federal standards.
Number 2365
MR. SHRINER replied, "It's my understanding, from talking to people
in the Department of Law, that that standard is greater than would
be required by the U.S. Constitution." He pointed out that he was
an expert on neither Cleary nor the law.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was a specific federal or state
statute on square footage.
MR. SHRINER expressed his understanding that there were court
decisions making that determination.
Number 2377
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked what the average size was for a typical
cell and how Alaska conformed to the standard adopted under Cleary.
MR. SHRINER said he could not provide a good example. However, a
month before, in touring the Wildwood facility, he had been
informed that some cells there were slightly below the Cleary
minimum. "I think, in general, it's fair to say that we meet that
standard," he said. "I doubt that we exceed it." He noted there
had been attempts to turn visiting rooms, for example, into cell
space whenever feasible.
Number 2438
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he had information that at Spring Creek,
there were two-man cells of 138 square feet, two square feet shy of
being three-man cells.
MR. SHRINER responded that he did not know about that.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY referred to a hand-out relating to policies
on televisions and asked what "honor status" meant.
MR. SHRINER said when an inmate had met certain requirements, they
would be given that status by the facility. He said the most
televisions per room were at long-term facilities, such as Spring
Creek.
TAPE 96-45, SIDE B
Number 0052
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked about the Department of Corrections'
position on physical training equipment.
MR. SHRINER replied, "That's a tough one. We have different kinds
of weight systems in different places." Some places had free
weights and barbells. Some had Nautilus-type equipment with
cables. At Lemon Creek, for example, there was a system designed
by staff and residents that was fastened to the wall. "In general,
the way we think of weight training is no different than we think
of televisions," he stated. "For some people that's important and
it occupies their time." Superintendents had told him they were
unaware of instances, in the Alaska system, at least, where anyone
involved in body-building had committed any serious physical acts
against another person inside the facility. Although they were not
aware of incidents outside, either, Mr. Shriner acknowledged that
was not good information, as the department did not keep track of
it. The department saw body-building as part of management. Mr.
Shriner commented that there were not enough jobs to occupy inmates
eight hours a day. For that reason, he was concerned about
instituting systems in prison where having a job was rewarded with
use of a television.
Number 0157
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that he thought free weights might
be handy weapons.
MR. SHRINER indicated he had been told, in response to a question,
that free weights had never been used as a weapon.
Number 0188
SENATOR DONLEY explained that the Senate amended the original bill
to allow inmates to use computers other than those provided by the
state. If a private company wanted to donate computers, for
example, inmates could use those, or their own computers, in common
areas but not in their cells.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked about e-mail and related options.
SENATOR DONLEY said, "There was a horrific experience in the
federal prisons with that." He said e-mail, as well as other
computer use, was now prohibited for federal inmates.
Number 0240
ANNE CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division,
Department of Law, testified that she had one comment on the bill.
She referred to page 3, lines 10-13, the provision prohibiting the
commissioner from providing living conditions and recreational
opportunities to prisoners exceeding conditions required by the
U.S. Constitution or the Alaska Constitution. She said, "In
regards to living conditions, as they relate to space, this would
require us to reopen the Cleary settlement because there are
conditions in the Cleary settlement that do exceed the federal
constitutional requirements in that regard."
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if, notwithstanding Cleary, there was clear
federal or state case law on square foot requirements.
MS. CARPENETI explained that Mr. Guaneli, Chief Assistant Attorney
General, who handled all prisoner and correctional issues for the
department, was out of town. She offered to provide answers later.
Number 0309
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if the department believed it was
in the interest of the state to reopen the Cleary decision at this
time.
MS. CARPENETI said she had not discussed it with Mr. Guaneli. The
issue was complex enough that she did not want to speculate.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked: "Would you agree with what we understand
the Department of Law's position to be, that this statute, if
passed into law, would supersede, in the supremacy of the law, the
Cleary agreement, to the extent that it was contradictory?"
MS. CARPENETI replied, "I believe so, yes. I agree with that."
Number 0370
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if any court cases indicated
fundamental constitutional requirements had changed, so that the
state would do better in renegotiating, or whether anything else
had changed since the Cleary settlement.
MS. CARPENETI replied, "Not to my knowledge, but my knowledge is
very limited. And when you asked the question about the agreement,
... I don't think that the statute would supersede an agreement
that the state has entered into. But ... it would be the law, so
we would have to go in and renegotiate, I believe, to comply with
the law. I don't think this would, on its own, negate a contract.
I think we would be required to renegotiate based on it."
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "The reason you would have to do that is that
the statute supersedes the agreement."
MS. CARPENETI replied, "Correct."
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked Ms. Carpeneti whether it would
unilaterally change an agreement if a law were to be passed that
conflicted with that prior agreement.
Number 0433
MS. CARPENETI indicated she would find out and respond on Monday.
She said Mr. Guaneli would be back Monday, as well.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that the committee would meet the following
Wednesday.
MS. CARPENETI asked if she should find out about cases on space
requirements.
CHAIRMAN PORTER affirmed that. He referred to page 3, line 10, and
indicated the committee was trying to determine whether they should
be more specific. After asking if there was further testimony on
SB 175, he closed the public hearing on the bill.
Number 0497
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN presented a packet of seven amendments
dated March 28, 1996. He offered Amendment 1, labeled
"Finkelstein1", which read:
Page 3, line 30:
Delete "make unmonitored telephone calls, except for"
Insert "make telephone calls that are not subject to
monitoring; however,"
Page 3, line 31, following "counsel":
Insert "may not be monitored"
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained that inability to make
unmonitored telephone calls would tax the resources of the prisons.
It was an internal management area of the prison system, which had
worked out elaborate schemes to deal with it. "They don't believe
it's a problem as it stands," he said, explaining they believed the
current wording would drain their resources.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Senator Donley whether he had an amendment
that would address that area.
Number 0573
SENATOR DONLEY said it had recently been pointed out to him that
this was addressed in another part of statute. He had an amendment
that would remove that section from the bill, he said. There was
an existing policy being followed, pursuant to an existing statute,
regarding what calls could be monitored. He indicated existing
statute allowed unmonitored phone calls to an inmate's attorney and
to the ombudsman.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said the Donley amendment would delete the
subsection on page 3, lines 30-31.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN withdrew "Finkelstein 1" as Amendment 1
and offered as a replacement "Donley 1".
Number 0645
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that "Finkelstein 1" had been replaced with
"Donley 1" as Amendment 1. Amendment 1 to CSSSSB 175(FIN) AM now
read:
Page 3, Line 30 to 31
Delete subsection
Renumber the following subsections accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY objected for clarification and said she
thought there should be a right to monitor whatever calls they
wanted to.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "For your information, they do have that
ability. They've got a system now that works in two areas. One,
outgoing calls are now preceded by a taped message saying, `you are
receiving a call from an inmate in a correctional institution; if
you do not wish to receive this call, please hang up.' So, all of
the games that were going on are eliminated. The rest of the calls
are taped and sporadically monitored, and, of course, if there's a
complaint, they can go back and look it up ...."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said it was in the bill because of being
part of the federal no-frills prison act.
Number 0692
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was discussion or any objection to
Amendment 1. There being none, Amendment 1 passed.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 2 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, labeled "Finkelstein 2", which read:
Page 3, line 32 to page 4, line 1:
Delete subsection
Renumber the following subsections accordingly.
The subsection under discussion, AS 33.30.015(a)(2)(B), prohibited
the commissioner from allowing a state prisoner to possess a
compact disc (CD) player, a video cassette recorder (VCR), or a
computer in the prisoner's cell.
Number 0704
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said the argument was that these were
critical management tools for running prisons. No evidence existed
that problems were created by them, he said, and benefits exceeded
any image problem. He expressed that computers were tools and that
computer skills were some of the best skills one could acquire. He
addressed the suggestion that CDs could be weapons and noted that
tape cassettes, which had hard plastic, could also be used and were
potential containers for drugs; however, they were not banned. He
noted that prisoners used utensils, as well. He saw this provision
as micro-management.
Number 0827
SENATOR DONLEY voiced that forks and spoons used in prisons now
were made from a special plastic which, when broken, produced no
sharp edges. "The CD provision was actually one that I've had
specific comments from prison guards saying, `thank you' for," he
said. He noted that the bill did not require that prisoners be
allowed to have tape cassettes. As for computers, he reiterated
that prisoners could have them in common areas.
CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to testimony from the department
indicating computers in the cells were being used for educational
purposes. He asked if putting the computers in common areas would
not create additional need for supervision by guards, a need that
would not exist if prisoners were locked in their cells.
Number 0916
SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Probably." It would be less convenient
for prisoners, as well. He noted that federal prisons completely
banned computers, even in general areas, because of misuse. "In
fact, the warden was expressing to me he thought the federal
government went too far banning them from common areas," Senator
Donley stated.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked what kind of bad experiences there had been.
SENATOR DONLEY replied the prisoners got into the Internet and
caused havoc.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if disallowing hooking up with any
intercommunication capability would solve the problem.
SENATOR DONLEY said, "Not completely," adding that computers were
recreational and a huge luxury. He saw no justification for
allowing a prisoner to spend three years playing computer games in
his cell.
Number 1044
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if there was any evidence of
private telephone lines going into any cells in Alaska. He did not
see how one could tap into the system without a private phone line.
SENATOR DONLEY said he was responding to the chairman's question
about experiences in the federal prisons and that he was relating
the warden's support of the decision except for common areas.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN thought it was irrelevant since there
were no phone lines into cells. He suggested that most prisoners
used older computer equipment. He believed acquiring computer
skills, even if inmates also played games, was valuable. Prisoners
were not wasting time but had time to fill.
SENATOR DONLEY clarified that prisoners did not have to buy
computers with their own money. Many people's families bought
expensive computers for them.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN thought that was not the rule and that
most prisoners had older computers.
Number 1227
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that the motion was to delete subsection (B),
line 32, page 3, regarding possession of a compact disc player,
video cassette recorder or computer in the cell. He expressed
mixed feelings since allowing computers only out of the cell would
require more supervision. He asked the sponsor what he would think
if the amendment only addressed CD players and VCRs.
SENATOR DONLEY replied it would be a step forward from what they
had now.
Number 1310
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN suggested splitting Amendment 2 and
dividing the question into three parts. He moved that Amendment 2
be divided.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted the motion and asked if there was an
objection. There being none, Amendment 2 was divided. Chairman
Porter noted that the first motion was to remove compact disc
players.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN restated previous comments on CD players
and tape cassettes.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion and asked for
a roll call vote. He said a yes vote would be a vote to remove CD
players.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if that was to remove it from "the
verbiage."
CHAIRMAN PORTER concurred. Voting for the first part of the
amendment were Representatives Bunde, Toohey, Finkelstein and
Porter. Voting against it were Representatives Vezey and Green.
Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter named the
portion voted on Amendment 2A and noted that compact disc player
had been eliminated from the amendment.
Several committee members objected simultaneously that that was not
what had been voted on.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "We removed the disc player. We're
taking it away from the room."
Number 1422
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said Representative Vezey had clarified
that it was removing it from the verbiage, which Representative
Finkelstein saw as removing it from the bill. "It wasn't amending
the amendment, it was splitting the amendment. So, we were just
voting on that one piece, removing CDs from the bill," he said.
CHAIRMAN PORTER stated, "But what I was doing was thinking, at
least, that we were removing the language from the amendment, not
from the bill. The effect would be a reversal, I think, of what
some people thought we were voting on.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said, "A no vote leaves it in."
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a motion to rescind the previous action.
Number 1462
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN moved that the previous action on Amendment2A
be rescinded.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection. There being none,
the vote on Amendment 2A was rescinded.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "I'm going to withdraw the
amendment."
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted it was withdrawn.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the motion was on a divided question.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked if possessing a compact disc in the
cell was being removed.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Representative Finkelstein had withdrawn
the motion to divide.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "Then they remain banned, in the
bill, from the cell."
Number 1538
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 2 was before the committee.
It removed the prohibition to have in the cell a CD player, VCR
and computer. He said a yes vote would remove the language from
the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if they were on 2B.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said no.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN replied, "The question was divided into
three. I withdrew 2A and I thought we were on 2B."
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "I thought you meant to remove the division."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated, "No, I can't remove the
division, I don't think." He added, "We already acted on that.
You said it was allowed and without objection, it was divided. I
withdrew the 2A and so now, we're on 2B. I just wanted to offer 2B
and 2C, just to follow on the chair's recommendation that they be
done separately."
Number 1602
CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to Amendment 2B and said a yes vote would
remove the reference to the video cassette recorder from the bill,
so it would not be prohibited in the cell. He objected and asked
for a roll call vote.
Number 1650
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN commented that other areas of the bill
specified what could or could not be viewed, leaving relatively
mild and educational items. He indicated VCRs could be a great
educational tool and that having them in cells would take less
supervision.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection.
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY objected.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment
2B were Representatives Toohey, Finkelstein, Bunde and Porter.
Voting against it were Representatives Vezey and Green.
Representative B. Davis was absent.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he had a technical question. "The bill
says there can only be TVs in common areas," he said.
Number 1760
SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Unless you do the restitution and comply
with the court orders and you've got your GED. Then, as a
management tool, the department can let you have one in your cell."
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said, "My question was, there's no sense
having a VCR if you don't have a TV to go with it."
CHAIRMAN PORTER agreed but said there was a way to get a TV. "In
effect, we've put VCRs under the same criteria as TVs," he said.
He noted that Amendment 2A had been withdrawn and Amendment 2B had
passed.
Number 1803
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN referred to Amendment 2C and said he had
already made the argument in favor of a yes vote.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said a yes vote would remove the prohibition of
computers in a cell from the bill. He asked for a roll call vote.
Voting for Amendment 2C were Representatives Vezey, Finkelstein,
Green and Porter. Voting against it were Representatives Bunde and
Toohey. Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter noted
that Amendment 2C passed. He explained his vote by saying he could
not justify creating a higher expense with the same effect.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked to address the language "or do not have
a rating".
SENATOR DONLEY responded, "Could I just say, on line 2, after the
word `or' there, you just [say] `or not approved by the
department', so the department could just delegate that authority
to their superintendents.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted there was a motion, which he named Amendment
2D, relating to page 4, lines 2-3.
SENATOR DONLEY clarified it was to insert language so it would read
"or not approved by the department that do not have a rating".
That way, he said, any educational movie without a rating could be
authorized by the department.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "Since we're using `or' statements
and not `and', any item in this series is precluded. So, an item
that does not have a rating is precluded."
Number 1962
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "unless approved by the department" would be
the way to say it, then. He stated, "We would leave those phrases
and on line 3, add `unless approved by the department'." He noted
that would be Amendment 2D. He asked if there was an objection.
There being none, Amendment 2D passed.
Number 2017
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 3 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, labeled "Finkelstein 3", which read;
Page 4, line 10 to 12:
Delete subsection
Renumber the following subsections accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted that Amendment 3 dealt with the
section on weight-lifting equipment. He disagreed with the basic
argument and suggested that self-esteem issues were important in
prison populations. He saw no clear line between aerobic and
muscle-oriented exercises and said both were crucial to older
populations, especially. "These folks can actually find some way
to do these things, anyway," he said. Furthermore, if passed, this
was the one item in the bill that would require renegotiation of
Cleary. He encouraged a yes vote.
Number 2258
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to concern expressed about misuse of
free weights. He suggested placing `portable' between `to' and
`bodybuilding' on page 4, line 10, and between `other' and
`equipment' on line 11. That way, inmates could use weights to
work out but would not have free weights or something that they
could throw or misuse on the guards.
Number 2310
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "We seem to allow prisoners to improve
their minds mentally but we don't allow them to improve their
body." She suggested improving one's body would add to self-
esteem.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that was the reason for the friendly
amendment. If equipment was not portable, one could still work
out.
Number 2395
CHAIRMAN PORTER said he understood the sponsor's intent but that it
was unenforceable.
SENATOR DONLEY responded, "But I think there's relative degrees of
efficiency in body-building."
TAPE 96-46, SIDE A
Number 0001
SENATOR DONLEY cited an example of a body-builder who beat up a
woman after getting out of jail. Senator Donley believed the state
did not have to assist inmates with the process of body-building.
"I think they can, for health reasons, do it themselves," he said.
Number 0106
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN believed state of mind was the issue.
Some might feel better about themselves and not beat up others if
they kept up their self-esteem, he suggested. He said evidence
from the department indicated this was an activity they would
prefer for prisoners over having them do nothing.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 3 would remove lines 10-12,
the prohibition on weight-lifting equipment. He asked if there was
further discussion and then asked for a roll call vote.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN withdrew his amendment to Amendment3.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked to proceed with the vote. Voting for
Amendment 3 were Representatives Finkelstein, Bunde, Toohey, Vezey
and Porter. Voting against it was Representative Green.
Representative B. Davis was absent. Chairman Porter noted that
Amendment 3 passed.
Number 0309
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 4 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, labeled "Finkelstein 4", relating to possession in cells of
coffee pots, hot plates, appliances or heating elements for food
preparation. Amendment 4 read:
Page 4, line 13 to 14:
Delete subsection
Renumber the following subsections accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN did not recall any testimony on this
item. However, from his conversation with the department, this was
a minor item that provided management tools and incentives for good
behavior.
Number 0360
SENATOR DONLEY explained those items were not allowed anywhere in
any prison he knew of.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked to hear from the department.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Mr. Shriner if there was a significant amount
of coffee pots, hot plates, appliances or heating elements for food
preparation in cells.
Number 0406
MR. SHRINER replied there may be some in long-term facilities such
as Spring Creek, but not in minimum security facilities.
SENATOR DONLEY said, "I was told by the representative of the
guards they don't allow them anywhere."
MR. SHRINER indicated he was not disagreeing. He was saying they
may have.
Number 0447
CHAIRMAN PORTER objected to Amendment 4.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "I don't see what the problem
we're solving is. There's not even any evidence they're being
used. There's just the possibility they might be necessary or
might be a good management tool in a long-term facility...." He
asked why they should legislate on that subject when it was not a
problem.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion and requested
a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 4 was Representative
Finkelstein. Voting against it were Representatives Green, Bunde,
Toohey, Vezey and Porter. Representative B. Davis was absent.
Chairman Porter noted that Amendment 4 failed.
Number 0522
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 5 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, labeled "Finkelstein 5", which read:
Page 4, Line 18 to 20:
Delete subsection
Renumber the following subsections accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said Amendment 5 addressed when
computers were allowed and that it was a conforming amendment.
Number 0680
CHAIRMAN PORTER pointed out the bill said "approved by the
correctional facility". He disagreed the amendment was conforming.
"It provides what it is that they're to be used for, but not
where," he said.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN replied, "The concept of the previous
one is that a computer in a cell was a reasonable thing. This
would say it can only be used as part of their employment, which is
not going to be occurring in their cell, or as part of their
vocational training, which ... may or may not be in their cell. It
may not be exactly conforming, but certainly this conflicts with
the concept of ... allowing computers in cells."
CHAIRMAN PORTER replied that, considering previous action, perhaps
the language needed an additional word to read "educational or
vocational training".
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN agreed. He withdrew Amendment 5, saying
his next amendment took care of that.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 5 was withdrawn, with
permission of the group.
Number 0718
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 6 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, labeled "Finkelstein 6", which read:
Page 4, line 19 following "employment":
Insert ", education"
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "I think we've established that computers are
allowed in the cell by approval of the department, by eliminating
it from the prohibition. But this would provide that the use in
the cell ... would be for employment, education or vocational
training. That's the effect of Amendment 6." He asked if there
was an objection.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Shriner whether the use of a
computer in an inmate's cell could be monitored to comply with
that.
Number 0779
MR. SHRINER replied that software was carefully screened. "There's
nothing on there that we haven't approved of," he said. Although
it might be difficult to determine if someone was playing a game
using spreadsheet software, for example, they could certainly
prevent the loading of games onto a computer.
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested that several games came with certain
hard drives.
MR. SHRINER believed those games could be removed.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was further discussion or an
objection to Amendment 6. There being none, Amendment 6 passed.
Number 0856
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN introduced Amendment 7 to CSSSSB
175(FIN) AM, labeled "Finkelstein 7", which read:
Page 4, line 29 to page 5, line 13:
Delete all material
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained Amendment 7 addressed when
prisoners were allowed to have televisions. In a previous
amendment, inmates had been allowed to have televisions and VCRs in
a cell, he said. "The bill uses the approach that they've got to
have a high school diploma or a GED and meet three other standards
before they can actually have the TV in their cell," he stated.
"The testimony from the department has been that this is an
important management tool.... Some people are not going to be able
to get their GED. ... Some folks can barely read and write, and
that doesn't mean they're a higher or lower risk in that particular
setting, nor that it's going to be in the interest of the prison to
exclude that particular person. Those folks are more problem-
ridden already." He said prisons could impose restrictions as a
management tool and added, "But to mandate in legislation, to give
them no recourse and to make that many more people who ... they are
unable to use that incentive tool on, I think is counter-
productive."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY mentioned the possibility of exempting people
lacking the mental capacity to meet requirements.
Number 1030
CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested wording similar to "is capable of and has
attained". Even for those incapable of attaining a GED, it would
still require some sort of training and meeting other requirements.
He asked: "Would that work, to eliminate the absolute prohibition
about someone who was mentally incapable of attaining his GED?"
MR. SHRINER replied he believed that could be done and assessments
made.
CHAIRMAN PORTER stated, "To the extent that we would word it
something like that, the department would make that judgment."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said, "If that's the goal, my suggestion
is we just take out the part that you've got to have a high school
diploma or a GED."
CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated he liked it for prisoners who were
capable.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY concurred.
Number 1110
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN indicated low IQ was not the only reason
people did not make it through school. Many could not read or
write. "It's not something you can do in just a matter of a year,
which is all the time given here to achieve that," he commented,
adding that many people would not make it. He said, "I'd withdraw
my [Amendment] 7 and offer as a replacement just removing page 5,
line 3 and 4, and leaving the rest in place."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY objected.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said, "For the purposes of discussion, I'll accept
the withdrawal of number 7 and a submission of an amended number 7
that only calls for the withdrawal, if you will, of lines 3 and 4
on page 5. So, that would be in front of us."
Number 1201
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded, "We're not taking their daily
sustenance away. We're taking a television set away." She thought
it was important to leave in requirements relating to the GED,
educational and vocational programs.
Number 1227
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN clarified that being engaged in
educational or vocational training or an employment program would
still be required. "This amendment just removes the high school
diploma or GED," he said. "So, I believe the second part still
achieves it. They've got to be involved in some sort of
educational activity and that determination is made by the prison.
So, I believe it achieves all the same goals. It just doesn't
automatically exclude someone because their physical abilities or
their past educational efforts make it unrealistic to get a high
school diploma."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY responded, "Somebody that has not finished
high school has a mental block that says they're stupid." She
indicated she was one of those people until she received a GED.
She believed that people who had not received a GED were in
trouble.
Number 1295
CHAIRMAN PORTER suggested handling the two issues separately. He
said, "The first issue is shall we eliminate the requirement. I
intend to offer something regarding `is capable of'." He noted
that the first issue, Amendment 7, was elimination of lines 3 and
4, page 5. He asked if there was further discussion and then
requested a roll call vote. Voting for Amendment 7 were
Representatives Green, Bunde and Finkelstein. Voting against it
were Representatives Toohey, Vezey and Porter. Chairman Porter
noted that Amendment 7 failed.
CHAIRMAN PORTER said he would entertain a conceptual amendment to
add to that line something to the effect of "is capable of and has
attained", recognizing that the determination would be up to the
department. He noted it would be Amendment 8.
Number 1353
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "So moved."
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that Amendment 8 conceptually inserted on
line3, page 5, subsection (1), the phrase "is incapable of or"
before the phrase "has attained a high school diploma or general
education development diploma or the equivalent". He asked if
there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 8 passed.
Number 1405
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 9 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, which read:
Page 5, line 7, following "satisfied":
Insert ", or is on a regular and current payment schedule
for"
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN explained, "This goes to the requirement
... on page 5, line 7, that they've satisfied all restitution
ordered." He indicated some people had long-term payment
schedules. The department believed those people should not be
precluded as long as they met their agreed payment schedule.
Number 1478
CHAIRMAN PORTER acknowledged it made sense from the standpoint of
providing motivation for restitution on large bills. He asked if
there was an objection. There being none, Amendment 9 passed.
SENATOR DONLEY commented that the department had a "pretty
miserable record of dealing with the victims of crime." He hoped
efforts to keep prisoners happy did not result in victims being
ignored again.
CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated victims' rights had risen to a
constitutional level equal to defendants' rights.
Number 1570
CHAIRMAN PORTER referred to page 4 and noted that lines 10-12 had
been deleted. He asked Tom Meyer to explain a technical problem
that had occurred.
THOMAS MEYER, Committee Aide, House Judiciary Committee, said "You
have to go back up to subsection (E) and take out the part where
they can't engage in bodybuilding or weight lifting."
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN asked if that could be left to the bill
drafter.
CHAIRMAN PORTER agreed and noted it needed to be addressed as a
conforming amendment to Amendment 4. He specified that the phrase
"in bodybuilding or weight lifting" should be deleted.
Number 1652
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 10 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, saying he wanted it on the record to show his objection to
micro-management. Amendment 10 read:
Page 5, line 14:
Insert new subsection as follows:
(f) The commissioner shall only allow television viewing
of the following programs
(1) any Walt Disney production;
(2) "The Waltons";
(3) "Little House on the Prairie";
(five more subsections in similar vein not included)
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN immediately withdrew Amendment 10.
Number 1667
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN offered Amendment 11 to CSSSSB 175(FIN)
AM, dated 3/20/96 and labeled "Z.1", which read:
Page 4, line 32:
Delete "January 1, 1997"
Insert "January 1, 1998"
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Senator Donley if he supported the amendment.
SENATOR DONLEY replied, "Most of the reasons that people asked me
to do that amendment, the committee has taken out of the bill now."
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said she objected, anyway.
REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated, "I thought in your statement
that this was to ... give them a year to meet the requirements for
a GED and a high school diploma."
Number 1708
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if there was an objection to Amendment 11.
REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY restated her objection.
CHAIRMAN PORTER asked for a roll call vote. Voting for
Amendment11 were Representatives Bunde, Finkelstein, Green and
Porter. Voting against it was Representative Toohey.
Representatives Vezey and B. Davis were absent. Chairman Porter
noted that Amendment 11 passed.
Number 1744
CHAIRMAN PORTER mentioned that Anne Carpeneti was going to provide
information about square footage requirements.
SENATOR DONLEY stated there was a "substantial difference test"
between what the constitution would require and what would actually
be provided. He did not know if they would be able to get an
answer. "We know what Cleary requires," he said. "And probably
the biggest problem here, of course, is the issue of the
dormitories, whether the state, in new construction of prisons,
should be able to provide for some sort of ... reasonable dormitory
accommodation, which would conform with the United States
Constitution, versus having to provide two- or three-people rooms
for everybody. The bill ... goes a way towards that now, freeing
up the state's flexibility."
Number 1790
CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated that if some obvious course was developed
in the next week, they could get together with the sponsor and
develop an amendment in the House Finance Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE moved that CSSSSB 175, as amended, move from
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
notes.
CHAIRMAN PORTER noted there was a motion to move the bill, as
amended, with individual recommendations and attached fiscal notes.
He asked if there was an objection. There being none, CSSSSB 175,
as amended, moved from the House Judiciary Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to conduct, the House Judiciary
Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:25 p.m.
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