Legislature(1993 - 1994)
01/21/1994 01:15 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
January 21, 1994
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman
Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair (arrived later)
Rep. Pete Kott (arrived 1:35 p.m.)
Rep. Gail Phillips
Rep. Joe Green
Rep. Cliff Davidson, absent
Rep. Jim Nordlund (arrived 1:23 p.m.)
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Sen. Dave Donley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 49 "An Act relating to facsimile absentee ballot
application and facsimile absentee voting."
HEARD AND HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
*HJR 45 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska relating to education.
HEARD AND HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
SCR 4 Relating to the Alaska Supreme Court's
interpretation Alaska Rule of Civil Procedure 82
and requesting that the court modify its
interpretation of that rule.
HELD UNTIL WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1994
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
REP. AL VEZEY
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 102
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-3719
Position Statement: testified on HB 49 as Chairman of the
House State Affairs Committee; and
testified as Prime Sponsor of HJR 45
TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Aide
Rep. Terry Martin's Office
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 411
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-3719
Position Statement: Testified on behalf of the Prime
Sponsor
of HB 49
JACK CHENOWETH, Legal Counsel
Division of Legal Services
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward Street
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-2450
Position Statement: Testified regarding legal opinion of
HB 49
DANIEL CAMPBELL
P.O. Box 290
Seward, Alaska 99664
Phone: 224-8985
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 45
VALERIE MAXWELL
P.O. Box 3701
Seward, Alaska 99664
Phone: 224-8689
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 45
VALERIE HAUER
P.O. Box 1315
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Phone: 772-3408
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 45
DUANE GUILEY
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St., Suite 200
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-8679
Position Statement: Answered question on HJR 45
DAWN GROSSMAN
P.O. Box 1284
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737
Phone: 895-1910
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HJR 45
SHERRIE GOLL
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: 463-6744
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to HJR 45
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 49
SHORT TITLE: ABSENTEE BALLOTING BY FAX
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Brice
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/13/93 52 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/13/93 53 (H) STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE
01/20/93 117 (H) COSPONSOR(S): BRICE
01/28/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/28/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/30/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/30/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/09/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/11/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/11/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/13/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/18/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/18/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/02/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/02/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/04/93 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/04/93 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/05/93 541 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) NEW TITLE
1DP 1DNP 5NR
03/05/93 541 (H) DP: VEZEY
03/05/93 541 (H) DNP: ULMER
03/05/93 541 (H) NR: B.DAVIS,OLBERG, G.DAVIS,
SANDERS,KOTT
03/05/93 541 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (GOV) 3/5/93
04/21/93 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
01/19/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HJR 45
SHORT TITLE: CONTROL & FUNDING OF PUB & PVT SCHOOLS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY,Sanders,James
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2006 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2006 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2006 (H) JUDICIARY
01/12/94 2041 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS
01/13/94 2053 (H) COSPONSOR(S): JAMES
01/21/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: SCR 4
SHORT TITLE: REQUEST CHANGE IN RULE 82 FEES
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/29/93 974 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/29/93 974 (S) JUDICIARY
04/05/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
04/06/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
04/12/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
04/12/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/12/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
04/13/93 1331 (S) JUD RPT 3DP 1NR
04/13/93 1331 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE (S.JUD)
04/14/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/16/93 1440 (S) RULES RPT 3CAL 1NR 4/16/93
04/16/93 1449 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME SCR 4
04/16/93 1449 (S) PASSED Y11 N9
04/16/93 1449 (S) DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION
04/18/93 1462 (S) HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO
4/19/93
04/19/93 1554 (S) RECONSIDERATION TAKEN UP
04/19/93 1554 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y11 N9
04/19/93 1555 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/20/93 1346 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/20/93 1346 (H) JUDICIARY
04/23/93 (H) JUD AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 120
04/23/93 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
01/21/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-6, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order
at 1:20 p.m. on January 21, 1994. Members present were
Reps. Phillips, Green, and Porter. Rep. Nordlund arrived at
1:24 p.m.
CHAIRMAN PORTER explained that the committee would not be
hearing SCR 4 (Request for a Change in Rule 82 Fees) because
of a scheduling problem. He said it would be heard next
Wednesday. Chairman Porter announced that the committee
would take up HB 49 first.
HB 49 - ABSENTEE BALLOTING BY FAX
Number 049
REP. AL VEZEY, Chairman of House State Affairs Committee,
testified that HB 49 had been heard extensively in the House
State Affairs Committee and had gotten the endorsement from
the Division of Elections that the bill is workable. He
said there is debate over the fiscal note, not that the
fiscal note is not accurate, rather how you would exercise
your options as far as buying equipment and hiring people.
REP. VEZEY said the purpose of the bill relates to where you
have certain people in the service of their country,
primarily in the military, others in the diplomatic service,
and others of a similar nature who are in essence
disenfranchised by the geographical locations of their
assignments. He added that HB 49 would eliminate that by
using communications, and there is sufficient protection
there to prevent fraud, although what is sacrificed is the
secrecy of the ballot.
Number 098
REP. PORTER said there seems to be some conflict with the
constitution as it regards secrecy. He asked if the issue
of secrecy being waived by an individual voter was addressed
in House State Affairs.
Number 115
REP. VEZEY answered yes, and explained that it is not public
information, so there is still privacy involved, but at
least one public official on each end would have access to
the ballot.
Number 128
REP. GREEN asked about adequately safeguarding against fraud
and asked Rep. Vezey how this would work.
Number 146
REP. VEZEY responded that HB 49 is silent on that issue, and
it would be worked out administratively.
Number 162
REP. GREEN expressed concern that there are alleged
improprieties even in the system we have. He said it could
lead to a chance of greater improprieties that currently
exist.
Number 186
REP. VEZEY replied that the State Affairs Committee had
asked similar questions, and the level and opportunity for
impropriety was very marginal.
Number 200
REP. GREEN referred to the fiscal note of $31,000 and asked
for an explanation of the cost.
Number 205
REP. VEZEY responded that it was a fiscal note from the
Division of Elections and he really couldn't say what the
actual expenses would be.
Number 216
REP. GREEN said the only reason he brought it up was because
a fiscal note would indicate that there are going to be
additional expenditures, perhaps, and asked if those might
then escalate.
Number 220
REP. VEZEY replied that the House State Affairs Committee
could have justified a zero fiscal note.
Number 242
TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Aide to Representative Terry
Martin, Prime Sponsor of HB 49, testified that they had
worked with the Department of Defense with the main purpose
of assisting the military, but also other absentee voters
outside of Alaska or the United States. He stated the main
idea is that an individual can fax a request for and receive
by fax an application, complete an application, and fax that
back to the Division of Elections, then have a ballot faxed
backed, mark the ballot, and fax the completed ballot back
to the Division of Elections if you are out of the United
States. Mr. Anderson went on to say that if you are in the
United States and an individual's application comes within
the legitimate time, which is postmarked seven days prior to
the election, and the Division of Elections feels it cannot
send out the ballot in time, then they can opt to fax the
ballot if you are in the United States but out of Alaska.
He added that you must then send the faxed ballot back
through the mail. Mr. Anderson explained that the only way
an individual would be sending a faxed ballot is if he/she
was out of the United States.
MR. ANDERSON then cited statistics supporting the concept of
HB 49, discussed how it works in other states that have
already passed similar legislation, and referred to a legal
opinion by Jack Chenoweth, Legislative Counsel for the
Legislative Affairs Agency, Division of Legal Services
addressing the secrecy issue.
Number 322
REP. PORTER addressed the requirement to the Division of
Elections to start this process on something that was
postmarked seven days before, not necessarily received
within the seven days.
Number 330
MR. ANDERSON responded that the requirement was not a
problem to the sponsor.
Number 333
REP. PHILLIPS noted that in the information back-up on the
bill there were no opinion papers from municipal clerks, and
asked if a position paper had been requested from them.
Number 340
MR. ANDERSON replied that he had not.
Number 345
REP. PHILLIPS requested that he do so.
Number 353
REP. PORTER said in reviewing Jack Chenoweth's opinion, he
noted that Montana has a close or similar constitution
provision as Alaska relating to privacy, and Montana doesn't
seem to have had a problem with the secrecy aspect of the
legislation.
Number 372
REP. PHILLIPS referred to Mr. Chenoweth's opinion, wherein
it states that if the current director of the Division of
Elections wants to make changes to the deadline provision,
it is allowable. Rep. Phillips asked if that had been
specifically discussed in the committee substitute for HB
49.
Number 382
REP. PORTER replied that it had not.
Number 384
REP. VEZEY indicated that his recollection was that the
House State Affairs Committee had debated that issue at
length.
Number 389
MR. ANDERSON explained that the original bill had a two day
postmarked deadline, and presently it's four days in law,
and the committee substitute changed it to seven days
postmarked.
Number 394
REP. PORTER recommended holding HB 49 until position papers
had been received from the municipal clerk's.
Number 415
JACK CHENOWETH, Legal Counsel, Division of Legal Services,
Legislative Affairs Agency, testified that in the time he
had to go back through the file, and to quickly look at the
states identified a year ago, he was able to find a close
analogy to Montana, and he didn't see any problems that had
been raised there. He also noted that both Louisiana and
Washington also had constitutionally explicit rights to
privacy and it didn't stop them from adopting the same kind
of approached. Mr. Chenoweth added that Montana statutes
were used as the model for HB 49.
Number 428
REP. PORTER said he would continue HB 49 to a date to be
announced. He then brought up HJR 45.
HJR 45 - CONTROL & FUNDING OF PUB & PVT SCHOOLS
Number 454
REP. AL VEZEY, Prime Sponsor of HJR 45, testified that HJR
45 came about this past summer when Attorney General Charlie
Cole issued a legal opinion stating it was unconstitutional
to use public funding for transportation of private school
students. Rep. Vezey researched the opinion and concluded
that Attorney General Cole was 100 percent correct. He said
HJR 45 would eliminate two sentences in the constitution
delegating responsibility to the judicial system relating to
public funding of private schools, and if the public votes
in favor of HJR 45, then funding of education simply reverts
back to the legislative branch and the administration
branch, and removes the judicial branch from having
oversight.
Number 521
DANIEL CAMPBELL testified via teleconference from Seward in
support of HJR 45, stating that it should be an option for
the legislature.
Number 541
VALERIE MAXWELL testified via teleconference from Seward in
support of HJR 45, saying she would be pleased to see it
move out of committee and before the voters.
Number 559
VALERIE HAUER testified via teleconference from Petersburg
in favor of HJR 45, and asked for clarification of the word
"public."
Number 577
DUANE GUILEY, Department of Education, stated that a
simplistic definition of a public education institution
would be one that offers educational opportunities to all
students on a comparable basis, free of tuition and free of
discrimination.
Number 583
VALERIE HAUER said she is interested in a voucher system
similar to what they tried to put in in California.
Number 592
REP. NORDLUND said he had a few things he wanted to say
about the bill before winding up here but, in terms of that
definition, perhaps another addition to the definition of
what a public education institution is that there is a
governing body that is elected by the public that governs
what goes on in that school, is accountable to the public,
and therefore the tie back to the expenditure of funds to
elected officials who are responsible for the expenditure of
those funds, which you don't have in a private institution.
Number 600
REP. PORTER said to a degree, if an institution is
certified, it's under public control. He asked if a private
institution wanting to provide education to K through 12
would have to meet certification requirements to qualify.
Number 608
MR. GUILEY responded no, under current statute private
schools that want to be accredited have to follow certain
state statutes and regulations, but they are exempt from
many other state statutes and regulations, one of which is
the control of an elected governing body.
Number 621
REP. PORTER asked if the state still provides certification
requirements for those institutions.
Number 625
MR. GUILEY replied that the state provides minimum statutory
guidelines and regulatory guidelines, but does not have a
specific certification process.
MS. HAUER discussed home schooling and her concerns about
the right to schooling choice.
Number 645
MR. GUILEY said that home schooling is available to all
Alaskans.
Number 650
MS. HAUER testified that she would like public school
facilities available to her children during school hours,
for use of equipment, pool, and so on.
Number 671
REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Hauer if she was under the state of
Alaska curriculum.
Number 677
MS. HAUER replied she was under the Christian Light
curriculum out of Harrisburg, Virginia.
Number 680
REP. PHILLIPS inquired if she had any connection at all with
the Alaska school system.
Number 681
MS. HAUER replied no, but she would be looking into the
state curriculum next year.
Number 682
REP. GREEN asked if it was the case that home schooled
children did not have access to public school facilities,
and if not, why.
Number 688
MR. GUILEY responded that each local school district
establishes policy in relationship to access to the facility
for children and parents of children who are not enrolled in
the public school system. He added that the Department of
Education currently has out for public comment regulations
that specifically allow for part time enrollment of students
in classes such as chemistry, physics, physical education,
and things that are not normally available in a home school
environment.
Number 714
DAWN GROSSMAN testified via teleconference from Delta
Junction in support of HJR 45.
Number 733
SHERRIE GOLL testified on behalf of the Alaska Women's Lobby
(AWL) against HJR 45. Ms. Goll said AWL believes in
maintaining the separation of church and state.
Number 760
REP. PHILLIPS commented that there is nothing in the
legislation that says anything about private religious
schools.
REP. PHILLIPS and Ms. Goll discussed whether HJR 45 would
affect funding for private and religious schools.
Number 784
REP. NORDLUND said he thinks that if you are taking the
words out of the constitution, you are taking a prohibition
out of the constitution, you are by default endorsing it,
saying therefore, it is o.k. Rep. Nordlund said he thinks
that is the way the court would interpret it, obviously,
otherwise what would be the intent of this. He asked who
are the schools that would be getting this funding if they
are not private schools? He added that this is the
practical reality, that is what the backup is, that's what
the legislation history will read, and he thinks that is the
way the court will interpret it. Rep. Nordlund continued,
saying the effect of HJR 45, if passed, would be private
religious schools getting state money.
Number 795
REP. PORTER said his impression was that the effect of HJR
45 would make the question open for consideration and
legislation and appropriations, by removing the prohibition,
but it would not perform those things, nor cause it to
happen.
Number 802
MS. GOLL said the bill was introduced less than a week ago,
and she didn't believe the public was aware this was
happening.
REP. NORDLUND said there was no fiscal note from the
Division of Elections.
Number 827
REP. PORTER pointed out there was a fiscal note from the
Division of Elections.
Number 847
REP. PORTER closed the hearing for public testimony and
entertained a motion.
Number 849
REP. GREEN moved HJR 45 with individual recommendations.
Number 852
REP. PHILLIPS asked Rep. Vezey for position papers from the
Department of Law and Department of Education.
Number 862
REP. VEZEY said he had not requested position papers.
Number 866
REP. PORTER asked if the Fairbanks transportation funding
issue would be solved by this action.
TAPE 94-6, SIDE 2
Number 000
REP. VEZEY said HJR 45 would eliminate the problem, but you
have to go back and read the supreme court decisions.
Number 020
REP. KOTT asked if other states use public dollars for
transportation of private students.
Number 026
REP. VEZEY said that was his understanding, but he couldn't
give any case examples.
Number 031
REP. KOTT indicated that it was his recollection that there
was a U.S. Supreme Court case in the early 80's that
afforded states the opportunity to use public dollars to
transport children.
Number 060
REP. VEZEY said it was his understanding that using public
dollars for this type of activity was the norm in most
states, but Alaska has a relatively new constitution.
Number 074
REP. PORTER asked if there was a motion.
Number 080
REP. GREEN asked to withdraw his motion and asked for
position papers from the Department of Education and
Department of Law.
Number 092
REP. NORDLUND requested that the committee get a fiscal note
from the Department of Education because Sherrie Goll made a
good point that there's a limited amount of dollars
available for education in this state, and if we have a
whole group of new institutions competing for those dollars,
there will be even less dollars for public institutions.
Rep. Nordlund continued, saying that it will be a really
difficult fiscal note to prepare, but he would like to get
some notion of what it would cost.
Number 111
REP. PORTER said he was considering that there was an
opportunity to save some money with HJR 45. If the amount
of money that went to a private institution per student was
less than what it cost the public, it would save money,
depending on which way you look at it.
Number 123
REP. NORDLUND commented that they should at least address
that in the Finance Committee. He said he had another
request, and that basically he thinks this is a really
radical bill because it will open up the floodgates for
public education for any private school, conceivably any
other kind of school in the state. He added that his
interpretation of that might be wrong; there might be other
prohibitions either in the state or federal constitution
against separation of church and state that would not allow
that. Rep. Nordlund said he doesn't think it is clear to
the Judiciary Committee what the effect of this bill would
be. He said he would like to hear somebody testify to this
act, some legal scholar or constitutional scholar or
whatever who could come in and say how the courts would
likely interpret this if enacted, and what would the effect
be on our public education system. He continued, saying he
thinks it has far reaching affects, violating the
fundamental doctrine that's the separation of church and
state, and public funds should not be going to educational
systems that are not accountable to the public. Rep.
Nordlund objected to putting public funds into private
schools in which the public has no handle or accountability.
REP. NORDLUND discussed other aspects including which
religious schools would be eligible and the ramifications of
approving one and denying another.
Number 177
REP. PORTER asked Rep. Vezey to get position papers from the
Department of Education and the Department of Law.
Number 187
REP. VEZEY said he didn't request any fiscal notes from any
department other than Elections because there's no
appropriation other than the cost of putting HJR 45 on the
ballot, and unless the legislature decides to appropriate
money, there is not a fiscal note that goes with this.
REP. PORTER said he would guess that a position paper from
the Department of Education would deal with that issue in
any event, and he asked if it would be possible to get the
position papers.
Number 210
REP. VEZEY said he would be glad to request position papers
from the departments.
Number 212
REP. PORTER said he would hold the bill until the position
papers were available and the committee members had a chance
to look them over.
Number 222
REP. KOTT asked DUANE GUILEY from the Department of
Education to comment on whether or not the state public
education system is providing any dollars at the present
time, or any materials to private schools.
Number 234
MR. GUILEY replied, not at this time; however, the state
provides a centralized correspondence study system which is
open to all students in the state which does not require a
tuition charge and provides textbooks and materials to
students enrolled in the program. He added that the
students cannot be enrolled simultaneously in the local
school system, so they must choose an option.
Number 264
REP. PHILLIPS asked what percentage of home schooled
children are not in the state correspondence study program.
Number 272
MR. GUILEY stated about 500 students.
Number 292
REP. PORTER recognized that Senator Dave Donley was in the
audience.
REP. PORTER said HJR 45 would be held over for further
action.
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 2:20 p.m.
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