Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/14/1994 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 14, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
MEMBERS ABSENT
Rep. Tom Brice (Excused)
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Rep. Jerry Sanders
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
Confirmation Hearing: Commissioner of Health and Social
Services, Margaret Lowe
HB 356: "An Act relating to living wills and do not
resuscitate orders; and providing for an effective
date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 412: "An Act relating to facilities for the care of
children; to child placement agencies; to
maternity homes; to certain residential facilities
for adults; and to foster homes for adults; and
providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
MARGARET LOWE, Acting Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
Phone: (907) 465-3030
Position Statement: Addressed the committee
LYNNE SMITH, Committee Aide
House HESS Committee
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 465-6825
Position Statement: Answered questions regarding
confirmation
MARK JOHNSON, Chief
Emergency Medical Services Section
Division of Public Health
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box H
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0616
Phone: (907) 465-3027
Position statement: Testified on HB 356
PAT O'BRIEN, Social Services Program Officer
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110630
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630
Phone: (907) 465-2145
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 412
LARE, President
Alaska Association for the Education of Young Children
1805 Bunker St.
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Phone: (907) 274-7793
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 412
(spoke via teleconference)
NANCY JOHNSON, Staff Person
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
751 Old Richardson Hwy.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: (907) 451-2650
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 412
(spoke via teleconference)
MARY MATTHEWS, Family Support Coordinator
Fairbanks Resource Agency
P.O. Box 80196
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
Phone: (907) 456-8901
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 412
(spoke via teleconference)
JODY ENGELMAN, Executive Director
P.O. Box 32839
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Phone: (907) 789-7610
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 412
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 356
SHORT TITLE: LIVING WILLS AND MEDICAL CARE ORDERS
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/10/94 2021 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2021 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
03/03/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/03/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
BILL: HB 412
SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY CARE FACILITIES
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/28/94 2177 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/28/94 2178 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/28/94 2178 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DHSS) 1/28/94
01/28/94 2178 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
03/14/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-48, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m., noted
members present and announced the calendar. He then asked
Commissioner Lowe to make an opening statement.
Number 003
MARGARET LOWE, Acting Commissioner, Department of Health and
Social Services (DHSS), stated that she has been in Alaska
since 1951 and her major areas of training and professional
expertise have been in education. She started working with
people with special needs in the early 1960's. She
indicated that in 1954 she walked up and down Fourth Avenue
in Anchorage carrying a placard that said, "I am a little
man for statehood." She strongly believes in democracy
where all citizens are involved in their government. She
also stated that she believes strongly in advocacy.
COMMISSIONER LOWE further explained that she has mostly
worked in the area of education, but she also involved
herself in areas of advocacy and participated on many boards
and commissions at local, state, and national levels. She
indicated that she has been a registered Republican for all
her voting years and she has been involved for many years in
the processes of administration and with the needs of
Alaskans.
COMMISSIONER LOWE said that of all the administrative
departments, the Department of Health and Social Services is
the "people department," and she does the best that she can
with the resources that she has to problem solve and to meet
the needs of Alaskans.
Number 145
(Chair Bunde indicated for the record that Representatives
B. Davis and Nicholia arrived at 3:08 p.m.)
CHAIR BUNDE said he was glad that the little man for
statehood was gender neutral.
COMMISSIONER LOWE responded that it was not in those days.
REP. TOOHEY said it was her hope that if there is a change
in the governorship in the next election, Commissioner Lowe
would continue to serve her position and indicated that her
job is on the line if and when a new governor is elected.
COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that she has not set any time
limits on how long she would serve as commissioner and that
she is not obligated in any way to leave.
Number 212
REP. NICHOLIA asked Commissioner Lowe her views on the
future of the Behavioral Health Aid Program, its potential
for expansion, and its success rate in rural areas.
COMMISSIONER LOWE asked if Rep. Nicholia was referring to
the Human Resources Health program that is under the DHSS.
REP. NICHOLIA replied yes.
COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that the program is one of the
most cost effective programs going in the DHSS and that it
does all the right things in that it trains
paraprofessionals and uses their abilities as they climb the
career ladder. She explained that the successful programs
are an incentive to other villages to start their own
programs. She stated that she strongly believes that the
young people in the rural villages must be professionally
trained and she felt that every possible incentive is given
to them through the program. She indicated that there has
only been positive feedback, and if resources were to become
available, she would triple the size of the program.
Number 284
REP. G. DAVIS stated that the man in the street is saying
cut the budget. He said the DHSS has one of the largest
budgets for the entire state. He indicated that possibly up
to $200 million could be cut from the DHSS budget and asked
"could you do that and still be here, do you think?"
COMMISSIONER LOWE asked if Rep. G. Davis was asking if she
could live with a cut that deep.
REP. G. DAVIS said yes.
COMMISSIONER LOWE said she could, but indicated that as
resources are continually being limited, the department is
challenged to become more creative and to avoid duplication.
She also said that integration of services in the most cost
effective way would also help to ease the impact. She
stated that all citizens need to understand that "we are
where we are because we were all a part of the picture. It
wasn't just I or just you who got us to this point."
REP. G. DAVIS said it was a good answer that sounded quite
like campaign promises or discussions.
Number 353
(Chair Bunde indicated that Rep. Sanders was present and
welcomed him to join the committee at the table.)
CHAIR BUNDE referred to the significant travel budget within
the DHSS and asked if Commissioner Lowe had any ideas as to
how to reduce that budget.
Number 355
COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that most people do not fully
understand just how much of that budget is used for moving
sick clients, children, mentally ill patients and juvenile
offenders. She said a great portion of the budget is
actually direct services to people. She indicated that
budget cutting in that area of the travel budget would be
quite difficult. She also explained that DHSS staff people
need to travel in order to do their job. She felt the more
they travel the more they are capable of doing a better and
more thorough job by visiting sites more often and providing
more technical assistance. However, she did submit that the
use of teleconferencing could be used more often and that
she would take a closer look at the travel habits of their
clinicians and professionals.
Number 451
CHAIR BUNDE explained that the general public does not
understand how difficult it would be to limit the travel of
clients and encouraged her to find ways to curtail the
travel expenses of department clinicians and professionals;
i.e., more electronic communications and people working out
of their homes.
COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that lap-top computers are very
helpful and felt they are a step in the right direction
toward efficiency.
REP. NICHOLIA agreed that it is important that the
clinicians travel to rural villages to continue their work.
She then asked what strategies would be used by the DHSS to
address the problems of alcoholism and suicide.
Number 501
COMMISSIONER LOWE stated that she has been struggling with
both issues for quite some time. She indicated that
inhalant abuse is a profound problem among youths today.
She explained that studies have shown that a heavy
concentration on educational programs helps to reduce
substance abuse among youths. Commissioner Lowe felt that
programs that are in urban and rural areas and the use of
paraprofessionals in the villages are contributing factors
in the fight against addiction and the high suicide rate.
She asserted that continuous contact between two people on
an ongoing basis is very important to the recovery from
addiction. However, she said, currently the programs do not
allow them enough time to recover and indicated that up to
twelve years is nothing. She also mentioned that an
important aspect of proactive programs is the self-
actualization of cities, towns, and villages. They must
become involved in their own growth. However, she indicated
that there must be support from the DHSS as most places
cannot do that on their own.
Number 575
CHAIR BUNDE asked Commissioner Lowe if progress is being
made in the areas of public health and prevention regarding
individual health.
COMMISSIONER LOWE said that there has been much progress in
the programs that address alcoholism and mental illness and
noted that there are various programs that can address those
issues. She felt that programs that address family support,
such as families with a member who is mentally ill, families
that have a member who is developmentally disabled, and
families that are dealing with an elderly member, are very
important and slowly making gains in the state. She asked
Chair Bunde if his question had been answered.
CHAIR BUNDE said he was asking if the state should be
optimistic or pessimistic, but indicated that obviously the
state should be optimistic.
Number 655
COMMISSIONER LOWE also explained that the more the DHSS can
learn, the more able they will be to overcome the scarcity
of resources.
CHAIR BUNDE reiterated that resources are scarce and agreed
that a can do attitude will help to overcome the limiting
factor of money.
Number 664
REP. KOTT referred to the serious drug and alcohol problem
in the state and said that many people believe that the
state has "been throwing good money after what I would
call... bad solutions." He asked Commissioner Lowe if she
had any solutions that would turn the trend around.
COMMISSIONER LOWE said she could not turn the trend around
with less resources. She explained that recovery from
addiction is a very long process and the philosophy is that
a person must stay in recovery the rest of their life, they
can never forget that they've been addicted. She reminded
the committee that the population of Alaska has been growing
consistently and that young people are becoming chemically
dependent at younger ages. She further indicated that if
she could have things her way, she would highly prioritize
it as an area that the state should put a lot of resources
into, as it is a very long and costly process. Commissioner
Lowe explained that abstinence is the base of the programs
under DHSS and she referred to twelve step programs as
another source for recovery that also suggests the practice
of abstinence.
COMMISSIONER LOWE further stated that different things work
for different people and pointed out acupuncture as another
form of prevention that is a small part of a grant in
Juneau. She again stated that the various types of
treatment require a lot of resources.
Number 739
CHAIR BUNDE referred to the high rates of teen pregnancy,
sexually transmitted diseases, and AIDS cases and asked
Commissioner Lowe if there was progress being made in those
areas.
COMMISSIONER LOWE felt that the DHSS was doing a good job in
terms of surveillance, educational materials, and treatment.
She said it takes more than a young student receiving a week
of training or lessons to really teach them the impact that
a disease or addiction can have on their lives. She said
the process must be continual and that people must be
inundated with education to counteract many misperceptions
and wrong messages that she believes the public gains from
television. She promoted one on one support and volunteer
work.
Number 779
CHAIR BUNDE said, "It might be helpful for every Hollywood
production we have on RATNET, we could have an educational
program to go hand in hand."
COMMISSIONER LOWE said she felt the quality on public
television was definitely higher than that of RATNET.
REP. TOOHEY asserted that the state is edging on full blown
AIDS epidemics in rural villages. She suggested that
perhaps some type of programming be done on RATNET to
educate villages. She then asked if the DHSS is ready for
the devastation of the AIDS epidemic.
COMMISSIONER LOWE said no. She felt that there is much
planning to do and that the Healthy Alaskan 2000 document is
almost back from the printers. She said the planning has
not been costed out and much more work needs to be done.
Number 831
REP. TOOHEY urged Commissioner Lowe to work with Indian
Health Services and referred to the AIDS epidemic as a time
bomb.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further questions. There being none,
he asked the pleasure of the committee.
REP. TOOHEY asked what the wording would be for the motion.
CHAIR BUNDE said that perhaps the preferred phrasing would
be to pass Commissioner Lowe's name to the Speaker with the
committee members' individual recommendations.
REP. TOOHEY said so moved.
REP. OLBERG said for the record that he would make that
motion with his personal strong support for the confirmation
of Commissioner Lowe.
CHAIR BUNDE repeated the motion and asked for any
objections.
REP. VEZEY objected.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Rep. Vezey to speak to his objection.
REP. VEZEY indicated that the format for the motion is to
pass the nomination from the committee without any specific
recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE said he believed it was with individual
recommendations and asked for input from Lynne Smith, the
House HESS Committee aide.
Number 860
LYNNE SMITH said that individual recommendations were made
on boards and commissions last year. She indicated it did
not reflect an intent by any members to vote for or against
the individual during any further sessions for purposes of
confirmation.
Number 865
REP. VEZEY said, "It's your call, Mr. Chairman."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "It's not an indication of your intent to
vote on the floor. If I might read this for the committee:
Dear Madam Speaker, In accordance with AS 39.05.080 the
House Health Education and Social Services Committee
reviewed the qualifications of the following individual and
recommends the appointment be forwarded to the joint session
for our consideration. Commissioner... the Department of
Social Services, Margaret Lowe, this does not reflect any
intent by any member to vote for or against this individual
during the further sessions for the purpose of
confirmation."
REP. VEZEY said, "I make a motion to that effect."
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Rep. Olberg had already made the
motion and asked if Rep. Vezey still maintained his
objection.
REP. VEZEY said he felt a roll call vote should be taken.
CHAIR BUNDE called for the vote. Representatives Toohey,
Bunde, G. Davis, Vezey, Kott, Olberg, B. Davis and Nicholia
voted Yea. There were no Nay votes. Chair Bunde indicated
that Commissioner Lowe's confirmation would go forward to
the Speaker.
COMMISSIONER LOWE commented that a number of the people in
the audience were from the Bridges Campaign for Mental
Health. She thanked them for their support.
CHAIR BUNDE thanked the members of the Bridges Campaign for
attending.
REP. TOOHEY said that the state was lucky to have
Commissioner Lowe.
Number 916
CHAIR BUNDE brought HB 356 to the table.
HB 356 - LIVING WILLS AND DNR ORDERS
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Rep. Toohey was the prime sponsor
of the bill which had been before the committee previously
and asked for further discussion.
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY indicated that the questions and
concerns submitted by CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director of
Interior Region Emergency Medical Services Council (IREMSC),
had been addressed. She further indicated that legal
services felt that the legislation was "on the mark" and all
relevant concerns were addressed in the legislation.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if there was any additional public
testimony for HB 356. There was none.
REP. OLBERG asked what became of the recommended changes by
Mr. Lewis.
REP. TOOHEY indicated that the recommendations were not
accepted. She said MARK JOHNSON from the Division of Public
Health and representatives of the Division of Legal Services
addressed the concerns and decided that they were not valid.
Number 972
MARK JOHNSON, Chief of the Emergency Medical Services
Section, Division of Public Health, Department of Health and
Social Services, testified on HB 356. He stated that he had
spoken with Mr. Lewis that morning and indicated that he had
agreed to withdraw all of his objections on the bill. He
said that it was agreed that some of Mr. Lewis' concerns
would be addressed in the process of regulation and
implementation.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion. Hearing none, he
then asked the pleasure of the committee.
REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to move HB 356 out of committee
with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal
note.
Number 993
CHAIR BUNDE asked if there were any objections. There being
none, Chair Bunde declared that HB 356 was so moved.
CHAIR BUNDE then brought HB 412 to the table.
HB 412 - COMMUNITY CARE FACILITIES
CHAIR BUNDE asked PAT O'BRIEN to address HB 412.
Number 995
PAT O'BRIEN, Social Services Program Officer, Division of
Family and Youth Services (DFYS), Department of Health and
Social Services (DHSS), testified in support of HB 412. She
stated that she has been involved in licensing for more than
20 years and that she was grateful to the co-chairs for
scheduling a hearing on the legislation. She reminded the
committee that among them was an expert in the area of
licensing, Rep. Bettye Davis. She asserted that the
licensing of programs for vulnerable populations is a vital
public function and one that the state has had difficulty
keeping up with in recent years. She said the focus of the
bill is to work smarter by consolidating a number of
licensing procedures into one particular place to make it
easier for licensers.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that the there are over 2000 licensing
facilities and referred to the pie chart in the bill packet
which shows that foster homes and child and child care
facilities take up the majority of the chart. She indicated
that the smaller sections of the chart are very complex
sections. She explained that when the legislation is passed
along with the assisted living bill (HB 377), adult
licensing will be removed from DFYS. She further stated
that if HB 377 fails to be passed, HB 412 contains
provisions that would enable DFYS to continue adult
licensing until an assisted living bill could pass.
MS. O'BRIEN said efficiency would be advanced by combining a
variety of regulations, thereby making it easier for those
who work in a one person office in rural areas. She felt
that consolidation would also make it easier for
communication between private licensing agencies, of which
the division works with approximately twelve.
MS. O'BRIEN pointed out another feature of the legislation
as being a shared partnership with both parents and private
agencies that would make it more clear to the parents that
they have a shared responsibility with the state in
monitoring the care of their children. She also indicated
that private agencies have asked that liability protection
be placed in the statute for them.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that the proposal does not constitute
many changes in licensing. She reiterated that the thrust
of the bill is to consolidate for purposes of efficiency by
combining various processes into the bill. She continued
testimony with a sectional analysis.
MS. O'BRIEN stated that Sections 1, 2 and 3 make no change
at all except for numbering to make it compatible with child
care laws, day care assistance programs, and child care
grants. She explained that Section 4 makes a small change
by allowing for a less onerous grievance procedure rather
than a "full blown" administrative hearing. She said only
the most serious enforcement steps taken will be an
administrative hearing under the Administrative Procedures
Act.
MS. O'BRIEN said that Section 5 is what licensing is all
about. She said instead of the term "private institutions"
a new title of Community Care Licensing would be used. She
also said the section clarifies the role of licensing and
their responsibility of informing parents of what their
roles are. She said the provision includes voluntary
licensure, which is done on a time available basis.
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the ability to charge fees has
been included in Section 6. She said she suspected that
regulations would be promulgated that will provide for fees,
but the department wanted it in statute as soon as possible.
TAPE 94-48, SIDE B
Number 000
MS. O'BRIEN further indicated that the division has
contracted with agencies to perform licensing evaluations.
She explained that with a village of 400 people there would
be no agency there to perform an evaluation. She further
indicated that the division would be able to enter into
agreements with individuals as well as agencies to perform
the evaluations. Ms. O'Brien said a subsection would
delegate powers to municipalities, and indicated that
currently Anchorage is the only municipality with the power
to adopt state standards.
MS. O'BRIEN continued on to say, "Section 7 has to do with
applicability and exemptions. This is an important section,
and I know it's a long section in the bill, but it pretty
much reflects current practice with the exceptions that I'll
point out. The four exceptions are... there was an
exception for occasionally placing a child for foster care
or adoption, and we've removed that exception. As far as we
know, attorneys no longer are doing that without going
through placement agencies. So, there will be no impact.
We think this is good for children.
"The exemption for governmentally operated programs has been
removed. Only one local government, as I mentioned, the
municipality of Anchorage, actually regulates day care
centers and they do not operate any programs. The age of a
child has been changed from 16 years to 18 years of age, and
as far as we can tell, there will be no known impact or no
programs impacted by that change. And, probably the most
important change, there was a clause in there that allowed
you to operate for ninety days without a license, which
undercut the whole idea of licensing. The idea of licensing
is to get in there before children are in care, reduce risk,
check things out, and then have children come into care.
So, we think that's an important amendment."
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that she was not going to go through
Sections 8, 9 and 10 because they are current to what is in
statute now. She did mention that Section 10, regarding
orientation and training, was made applicable to all
facilities and indicated that only parents are currently
included in current statute provision. She further
indicated that it is very important that people know what is
confidential and what is not. She explained that there has
been much conflicting advice from attorneys. She said for
the most part licensing records are "open" but there are a
few things that should be confidential. She explained that
potential foster parents give the division very personal
background information that should remain confidential.
MS. O'BRIEN further stated that Section 11 encourages
parents to participate in monitoring child care facilities.
She also mentioned that there is a lot of support across the
state for there to be inspections before every license is
issued. She said Section 11 requires that there be an on-
site inspection before any license is issued.
MS. O'BRIEN said Section 12 addresses complaints and
investigation enforcement. She asserted that a complainant
would get a copy of the report upon request and that
retaliatory action is prohibited. She said often an
employee is afraid to report a violation of regulation. She
explained that enforcement actions which are currently in
the licensing manual would be included in the legislation.
Number 197
REP. TOOHEY referred to the $65,000 for fiscal year (FY)
1995 and $35,000 for FY 1996. She said every new facility
would have to be inspected and indicated that the financial
impact is not reflected in any of the other fiscal notes.
She asked if it should be reflected.
MS. O'BRIEN said no. She explained that current practice is
not being changed within the bill and that there would be no
increased cost in inspections. She said currently a number
of licensers are experiencing an overload. She said badly
needed relief will be afforded when adult licensing is
removed from the division. Also, the consolidation of
procedures will provide more relief. She maintained that
the division would not be doing more than they are now, so a
fiscal note was not attached to the activity of licensing.
Number 242
REP. TOOHEY asked if a questionnaire is sent to those who
apply for a license.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that a questionnaire is sent out to
applicants for foster home.
REP. TOOHEY asked how many pages are in the questionnaire.
MS. O'BRIEN replied that the application is one page;
however, there are different attachments depending on the
type of facility. She indicated that the application with a
background questionnaire for foster care is about six pages,
which includes criminal history background information.
REP. TOOHEY asked if police records are requested to verify
the criminal histories of applicants.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that in a child foster home licensing
situation the division receives a signed application, a
personal history background statement, and child protection
background or a criminal history background. All applicants
must get their fingerprints rolled. She indicated that the
state pays for the criminal history background checks.
Number 293
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the fiscal note reflects new money or a
transfer.
MS. O'BRIEN responded that the fiscal note would cover the
transition and would allow the division to be more creative
in working with the providers and developing revised
regulations. She said approximately six regulations would
be changed and a task force would be formed of those who
would be affected. She then said the division would
promulgate the regulations, draft them, go through the
public hearing process, and then conduct regional training.
Number 348
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that there was teleconference
testimony from Anchorage and Fairbanks. He then referred to
the statutory ability to charge fees and urged Ms. O'Brien
to exercise that right to offset the fiscal note.
Number 365
MS. O'BRIEN continued on with the sectional analysis. She
stated that Section 13 addresses the licensing of adult
facilities and said if HB 377 does not pass, the division
would not put the section into effect.
MS. O'BRIEN further stated that the remaining sections
address liability and definitions. She then indicated that
the DHSS had brought forward four amendments and that Rep.
Kott also had submitted amendments. She asked Chair Bunde
if she should address those or wait until after further
testimony.
Number 390
CHAIR BUNDE said teleconference testimony would be heard and
asked for testimony from Anchorage.
Number 392
LARE, President of the Alaska Association for the Education
of Young Children (AK-EYC) testified via teleconference in
support of HB 412. She stated the AK-EYC supports HB 412,
provided that the fiscal note of $100,000 for a statewide
task force for implementation and training is also passed.
She said that early childhood professionals welcome
regulation that reduces risks to young children in out-of-
home care. She then referred to the ability to charge fees
and said she suspected that many Alaskans feel that they
have not paid their fair share for a number of years;
however, she felt that the area of community care facilities
is one of the most vulnerable populations. She also stated
that the people who care for and educate those children are
paid much less than parking lot attendants or garbage
collectors. She said she was concerned that if a fee is
charged it would be passed on to the parents.
REP. VEZEY referred to Lare's statement that child care
workers are paid less than garbage collectors and asked her
which job she thought was more difficult to perform.
MS. O'BRIEN asserted that caring for a young child for eight
to ten hours a day was a far more difficult task. She said
it may appear to be a lot of fun, and in many ways it is,
but it takes an extraordinarily high skill level to care for
someone else's child.
REP. VEZEY said, "My question then would be, why don't those
people get jobs as garbage collectors instead of working in
child care facilities?"
MS. O'BRIEN responded, "Well, I guess it's because that
there are some among us who find that our real talents are
working with the very young child and their families.
That's why we went to college, that's why we have the
degrees that we have, and we choose to stay in that
position."
Number 508
CHAIR BUNDE asked for teleconference testimony from
Fairbanks.
Number 509
NANCY JOHNSON, Staff Person, Division of Family and Youth
Services, Department of Health and Social Services,
testified via teleconference in support of HB 412. She
stated that she has worked in the area of licensing for 23
years. She said the licensing that she performs represents
a valuable preventive function. She indicated that often
licensers have to perform several different kinds of
licensing, especially in rural areas. She asserted that the
legislation is designed to simplify regulations and
implementation. She said the proposal also includes
concepts that other states are using and indicated that
Alaska belongs to many national associations for regulatory
administrators and has participated in projects that have
allowed key personnel to stay current with national trends
and recommendations. She further stated that the
legislation would make it easier for licensing to work with
community groups for recruiting and evaluating service
providers.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Johnson, if HB 412 was passed, would
she be personally involved in setting up the study groups?
MS. JOHNSON said she expected to be.
REP. TOOHEY referred to the $45,000 budget for travel and
asked Ms. O'Brien if perhaps the questionnaires could be
sent to local public health nurses or community health aids
so they would be responsible for the procedure rather than
spending $45,000 on travel.
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the travel budget is specifically
for the task force. She said if the travel budget is not
supported, the participants will not be able to meet face to
face. She said she is hoping that there will be much
involvement from Bush communities and Native organizations
and that the only way to address those concerns is to meet
face to face.
REP. VEZEY referred to the statement made by Ms. O'Brien
regarding Section 7 which changes the age of children from
16 to 18 years of age. He said he was unable to find that
provision.
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the language is actually in
definitions under Section 17. She said the definition of a
child would be up to age 18 and would affect the application
of the statute.
REP. VEZEY asked what page the definitions section was on.
MS. O'BRIEN said page 19.
Number 637
REP. VEZEY asked why the definition of child was being
changed from 16 to 18 years of age.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that the division licenses a number of
programs that serve children ages 16 and 17 and over 17
years of age in foster homes. She said it only makes sense
to include that age range because the division is regulating
facilities with those age ranges anyway.
REP. VEZEY said the language is really referring to
unemancipated minors.
REP. TOOHEY asked if developmentally disabled persons were
also included.
MS. O'BRIEN replied yes. She said, "...and since adult
licensing has been in our division, we have found that
children move from a child foster home then and it becomes
an adult foster home. And, I suspect if the assisted living
bill passes, we will continue to collaborate with them to
make sure that there's a smooth transition there."
Number 668
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further testimony from Fairbanks.
Number 669
MARY MATTHEWS, Family Support Coordinator, Fairbanks
Resource Agency, testified via teleconference in support of
HB 412. She stated that she was pleased to see the
clarification of immunity from liability for private
agencies provided for in the proposal.
Number 684
CHAIR BUNDE asked for testimony from JODY ENGELMAN.
Number 685
JODY ENGELMAN, Executive Director, Juneau Youth Services,
testified in Juneau in support HB 412. She stated that the
legislation would provide consistency among the various
types of regulations and would ease up the job of licensers
by making definitions consistent. She also felt that the
regulations that she was currently working under were very
old fashioned and cannot address the current or future
concerns and changing services. She further stated that she
supports the attached fiscal note, as it will enable the
division to be in contact with families and their needs.
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that to address the amendments that
have been put forth, HB 412 must be adopted by the committee
as a working draft.
REP. VEZEY concurred.
CHAIR BUNDE then asked for a member to move Amendment 1 so
the department could discuss it.
REP. TOOHEY said so moved.
REP. KOTT asked if the committee was addressing his
amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Amendment 1 was from the DHSS.
He asked if Rep. Kott felt it would be more productive to
address his amendments first.
REP. KOTT said the decision was up to Chair Bunde.
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that DHSS Amendment 1 had been moved
and asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.
Number 743
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that there are a number of child care
facilities on military bases in Anchorage and in Fairbanks
and also the Kodiak Island Coast Guard facility. She
explained that in those facilities there are one or more
staff persons that perform evaluations and provide training
to those facilities. Ms. O'Brien maintained that they are
better staffed than the state is. She said the division
stopped regulating the facilities a number of years ago.
She said the purpose of the amendment is to clarify that
military bases and Coast Guard facilities are not included
in regulations. However, she said a side agreement was made
with the Coast Guard relative to small communities like
Sitka and Cordova that have a number of homes that provide
family child care and have been previously licensed by the
division. The division will continue to do the licensing
for those areas.
Number 774
CHAIR BUNDE asked for discussion or questions.
REP. VEZEY said he doesn't have a problem with the
amendment, but felt the wording was unclear. He said it is
not the ownership of the property that the division is
interested in, it's the guidelines that the federal agencies
operate under that the division is trying to not
"reregulate."
MS. O'BRIEN responded that the wording was given to her by
Commander Gary Palmer. She said he recommended that the
language be included and she did not object.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion or objections.
Hearing none, Chair Bunde announced that DHSS Amendment 1
was adopted. He then brought DHSS Amendment 2 to the table.
REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt DHSS Amendment 2.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that two mistakes were made in the
drafting process and encouraged the committee to adopt the
amendment to ensure that the relatives are exempted from
becoming licensed. She further indicated that Rep. Kott had
an amendment that would add a subsection 8, which the
division would support because she felt the division
amendment does not go far enough.
Number 823
CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions.
REP. KOTT said he would offer a friendly amendment to DHSS
Amendment 2, which was his Amendment 1.
CHAIR BUNDE asked to see a copy of the amendment.
REP. KOTT stated that all members should have a copy and
further explained that the amendment does go further in
exempting relatives from being licensed. He said if a
grandmother is caring for five grandchildren, she should be
exempt. He also stated that great grand parents are
included.
REP. TOOHEY asked if there is a limit on how many biological
grandchildren a person can care for. She asked, if a woman
is caring for four or more grandchildren, can she also care
for four or more day care children?
MS. O'BRIEN explained that anyone can care for four children
whether they are related or not without a license, as it is
a total exemption. She asserted that the division does not
want to license homes where there are relationships and said
that is why the clause was added. She said, "Then you may
care for up to eight children as a family child care home.
And, those could all be related and shouldn't be licensed.
But, in order for that to occur, Rep. Kott's amendment is
also needed, amendment to my amendment."
Number 869
REP. TOOHEY asked if a person does not need a license to
care for four children.
MS. O'BRIEN said, "Any related child or for four children
related or not."
REP. TOOHEY said that a person could have eight children in
the home without a license.
MS. O'BRIEN said, "You can have four children in the house,
and you don't need a license. If there... you can have
additional children. Four of them can't be related to you,
but you could have as many related to you..."
REP. TOOHEY said, "And you don't need a license. I mean you
can have eight children in the house, four of them can be
your grandchildren and four you're caring for in the
neighborhood. So, you have eight children of eight
children. You do not need a license."
MS. O'BRIEN said, "You can take care of four children,
without a license, who are not related to you and you're
living there. And then, you can take care of additional
(four) related children."
REP. TOOHEY said there is no limit.
REP. B. DAVIS said there used to be a limit.
MS. O'BRIEN said, "If all the children are related, then
there's no limit. That's what there's no limit on."
REP. TOOHEY said, "But, if you take care of four children...
you can take care of four unrelated children without a
license. And, then you have four grandchildren who come and
visit, and you're taking care of them also. That means you
have eight children in the house. I mean, you're not saying
that this person has to have a license to have eight
children in the house."
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that the answer is no according to
Commissioner Lowe.
Number 906
MS. O'BRIEN stated that it is confusing and read from
current regulation: "A facility is exempt if they're
regularly providing child care only to a child or children
related to the resident care giver."
CHAIR BUNDE reiterated that a person can take care of a
"flock" of children, but no more than four that are not
related.
TAPE 94-49, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE stated that DHSS Amendment 2 had been moved and
that Rep. Kott submitted his Amendment 1 as a friendly
amendment.
REP. G. DAVIS asked if the motion before the committee was
to adopt Rep. Kott's amendment.
REP. KOTT said it would be DHSS Amendment 2 as amended.
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that it would be DHSS Amendment 2 as
amended.
REP. TOOHEY asked if DHSS Amendment 2 had to be adopted
first before making a friendly amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE replied no. He said, "We have an amendment to
the amendment before us."
REP. TOOHEY said, "But we haven't adopted the second
amendment have we?"
CHAIR BUNDE said, "No, but we have an amendment to the
amendment and then we go to the main amendment. The
amendment to the amendment and the main amendment will read
as Rep. Kott's Amendment 1 currently reads. It inserts
unrelated caregiver, plus the additional insertion that Rep.
Kott has... a facility in which the caregiver is related, is
a relative of all the children. And, it inserts after
grandparents, great grandparents. Do we have some clarity
here?"
REP. KOTT stated that maybe he should have addressed his
amendments first.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have an amendment to the amendment
which is Rep. Kott's Amendment 1. Do you understand that?"
REP. B. DAVIS said yes.
REP. KOTT moved the amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE asked for any objections.
REP. B. DAVIS said she would like to hear from the
department as to whether they supported the amendment as
amended.
MS. O'BRIEN said yes.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "So, now are there objections?"
REP. B. DAVIS said no.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "Hearing no objections, we've adopted the
amendment to the amendment which brings us to Amendment 2
which is the very same amendment that we... to the amendment
that we've just adopted, so are there any objections to
Amendment 2?"
Number 114
REP. KOTT said, "I'll move Amendment 2."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "It was previously moved and so if there
are just no objections..."
REP. TOOHEY said, "Excuse me, because we have amendments
before us that are both labeled, we have two labeled..."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have Rep. Kott's Amendment 1, which is
now Department Amendment 2. Who's on first What's on
second? We are now moving on to Department Amendment 3.
Rep. Kott, you have something to say on this?"
REP. KOTT said no.
Number 138
CHAIR BUNDE asked for a member to move DHSS Amendment 3.
REP. KOTT said so moved.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.
MS. O'BRIEN indicated that before the bill was brought
forward to the committee, the division had two
teleconferences with various organizations, including Native
organizations. She stated that the Native organizations
were concerned as to how difficult it is to license in very
small communities and pointed out the difficulties involved
when a child must be removed from a home in an emergency
situation. She said Amendment 3 would address those
concerns.
Number 186
CHAIR BUNDE asked for discussion or objections. Hearing
none, Chair Bunde declared that DHSS Amendment 3 was
adopted. He brought DHSS Amendment 4 to the table. He then
said, "And, the reason I was thinking we needed to adopt a
CS becomes more apparent with each amendment." He asked for
a member to move the amendment.
REP. G. DAVIS said so moved.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to address the amendment.
MS. O'BRIEN explained that in the teleconferences that she
mentioned it was pointed out that some variances are allowed
for only seven days. She said there would be a lot of extra
paper work if a license had to be issued each time a
variance was given. She asserted that the amendment is an
efficiency amendment.
REP. TOOHEY said she was troubled with the proposal because
"we can no longer rely on the good will of the village or a
neighbor to take care of the child. We are regulating
care... the thing just smacks of regulating care of our
fellow man out of existence. Does this bother anybody
else?"
Number 286
CHAIR BUNDE explained that the legislation addresses
situations when an official comes and removes and then
places the child. He said it does not address the neighbor
or relative or grandparent who wants to care for the child.
He said the legislation does not preclude voluntary action.
REP. TOOHEY said, "Yes, we are."
CHAIR BUNDE stated, "I don't think so. Only when an
official comes in and says that child's in jeopardy, now I'm
making him a ward of the state, basically. It's not saying
that neighbors and relatives can't say, `Well, wait a
minute, you need some help. Let me give you a hand.'"
REP. G. DAVIS indicated that almost any law is on request.
People can commit crimes, but if nobody asks that a person
be arrested, there will be no arrest unless there is a
request for the state to step in.
Number 325
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion. He then asked for
objections on DHSS Amendment 4. Hearing none, Chair Bunde
declared that DHSS Amendment 4 was so moved. He then
brought Rep. Kott's Amendment 2 to the table. He asked Rep.
Kott to speak to his amendment.
(Note: Rep. Kott's testimony pertaining to Amendment 2 is
inaudible. Refer directly to Rep. Kott's Amendment 2, as
submitted and on file, which refers to page 19, lines 22-23.
The amendment suggest deleting the words "whose parents are
not" and insert "who does not have a parent.")
Number 350
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.
MS. O'BRIEN stated that prior to the meeting she was able to
look over all of Rep. Kott's amendments and said she felt
comfortable with all of them.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee understood the amendment.
He asked if there were any objections. Hearing none, Chair
Bunde stated that Rep. Kott's Amendment 2 was adopted. He
then brought Rep. Kott's Amendment 3 to the table.
Number 374
REP. KOTT made a motion to adopt his Amendment 3. He said
the amendment addresses page 20, line 19, and would delete
the words "have been arrested" and would insert "are under
arrest."
CHAIR BUNDE said that the amendment would provide that a
person's past would not be held against them. He asked for
objections. Hearing none, Chair Bunde stated that Rep.
Kott's Amendment 3 was adopted. He indicated that it was
his intent to have the committee substitute (CS) before the
committee before the legislation is passed out.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE
ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:30 p.m.
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