Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/07/1994 03:00 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 7, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Rep. Sean Parnell
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 323: "An Act relating to the release of certain
information for the purpose of facilitating
anatomical gifts."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 349: "An Act providing for the civil commitment of
sexually violent predators."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
JENS SAAKVITNE
P.O. Box 230785
Anchorage, Alaska 99523
Phone: (907) 562-5433
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 323
JAYNE ANDREEN
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200
Phone: (907) 465-4356
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 349
CAREN ROBINSON, Lobbyist
Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault
P.O. Box 33702
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Phone: (907) 586-1107
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 349
JAMES McLAIN, Member
Board of Parole
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 112000
Juneau, Alaska 99811-2000
Phone: (907) 452-4454
Position Statement: Testified on behalf of himself in
support of HB 349
LEONARD ABEL, Mental Health Program Administrator
Division of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110620
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0620
Phone: (907) 465-3370
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 349
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 323
SHORT TITLE: RELEASE OF CERTAIN DEATH CERT. INFO
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2011 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2011 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2011 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
02/07/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 349
SHORT TITLE: CIVIL COMMITMENT OF SEXUAL PREDATORS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PARNELL,Toohey,Olberg,Sanders
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/07/94 2019 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2019 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2019 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/13/94 2056 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG
01/26/94 2160 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS
02/07/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-09, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. and
noted members present and members absent. Chair Bunde
announced the calendar. He asked Rep. Toohey to address the
committee.
HB 323 - RELEASE OF CERTAIN DEATH CERTIFICATE INFORMATION
Number 074
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 323, indicated that
she was offering a committee substitute (CS) for HB 323.
Rep. Toohey made a motion to adopt the CS as a working
draft.
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, stated that CSHB 323 was
adopted.
Number 116
REP. TOOHEY stated that current statute restricts the
release of information from death certificates in the Bureau
of Vital Statistics. She said that in the case of organ and
tissue donation, the current statute may cause the loss of
potential donors due to time delays, and she stressed that
time is of the essence in harvesting the tissue. Rep.
Toohey stated that HB 323 would enable a bank, storage
facility, or person who handles procurement of anatomical
gifts to obtain the necessary information from the
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) within a
conducive time frame for donation.
REP. TOOHEY stated that the information would be on the
death certificate, or collected by the department for
completing the certificate, or in information from other
vital human records.
REP. TOOHEY continued by saying that the information would
consist of the name of the person who could execute the
anatomical gift and the medical suitability of the potential
donation. The information would allow the person
potentially procuring the donation to know if the tissue was
healthy and who to contact in a timely manner to allow
successful harvesting.
REP. TOOHEY stated that DHSS and the court system support
HB 323 and that it has a zero fiscal note.
(Note: Rep. Toohey read from a prepared statement. See
Attachment 1.)
Number 233
REP. VEZEY asked Rep. Toohey what the relationship between
CSHB 323 and the expedition of the donation of tissue was.
REP. TOOHEY said the paperwork behind her proposal would
allow the information to be obtained within 12 to 24 hours,
citing that tissue is no longer viable after that period.
She said the legislation would allow the people at Life
Alaska to obtain the information before the body has
decomposed past the point of viability.
Number 289
(Chair Bunde announced Rep. Nicholia's arrival at 3:11 p.m.)
CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Saakvitne to testify.
Number 300
JENS SAAKVITNE, Director, Life Alaska, testified in support
of HB 323. He stated that both the DHSS and the court
system felt the proposal would allow for rapid release of
crucial information. He said it would allow coroners or
police officers to release information immediately after a
death, noting that most information on a death certificate
is obtained by them within six hours after they are notified
of a death.
Number 344
CHAIR BUNDE stated that, as he understood it, organ
donations must take place before the body is anatomically
dead. He said that tissue donation, as another level of
donation, can occur up to 24 hours after a clinical death.
MR. SAAKVITNE agreed to both points. He stated that bone
and tissue transplants are the most common forms of
transplants, indicating that in 1992 there were
approximately 20,000 organ transplants, 40,000 corneal
transplants, and over 450,000 bone and tissue transplants.
Number 374
For clarification, REP. VEZEY said that the cornea is tissue
and not an organ and that bone structure is tissue also.
Number 386
MR. SAAKVITNE stated that the organ donation program and the
tissue donation program work closely together.
Number 398
REP. KOTT asked how long it would take to determine medical
suitability for donation.
Number 406
MR. SAAKVITNE replied by saying that the initial information
needed would be the age of the recipient and cause of death
(e.g., infectious disease) and from there it would be
ascertained which tissues and organs would be viable
contingent on the health of the decedent.
Number 438
REP. VEZEY asked if every decedent is examined for AIDS and
other diseases.
Number 443
MR. SAAKVITNE responded yes. He said that very extensive
testing is performed before any tissue is harvested.
Number 462
REP. KOTT expressed concern about imposing on the family of
the decedent so soon after death. He referred to an
Anchorage Daily News article (see Attachment 2) and asked
why the hospitals were not obtaining the information before
the person dies.
Number 492
MR. SAAKVITNE said that greater cooperation from hospitals
was an issue being worked on. He stated that with emergency
room deaths, the family is so distraught it is difficult for
the hospital to obtain the information, and also there are
cases where the person dies on the scene and does not enter
the hospital system. Hence, the family is never given the
option for donation.
Number 525
REP. VEZEY asked what percent of licensed drivers opt to be
organ donors.
Number 536
MR. SAAKVITNE stated that there is no official record kept
by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). Although he had
been told by DMV employees that 30-50 percent of licensees
sign to be donators. He followed by saying that not all
decedents have their driver's license at the time of their
death.
Number 553
REP. VEZEY said that the donor card issued by the DMV could
be separated from the driver and suggested a simpler method
to indicate a person as a donor.
Number 566
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee was digressing, but
suggested a sticker be affixed to the driver's licence.
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the committee
of their intentions for the bill.
Number 591
REP. BRICE made a motion to pass CSHB 323 out of committee.
Number 599
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that CSHB 323
passed out of committee with individual recommendations to
the committee of referral.
CHAIR BUNDE announced the next bill for discussion.
HB 349 - CIVIL COMMITMENT OF SEXUAL PREDATORS
Number 620
REP. SEAN PARNELL, Prime Sponsor of HB 349, stated that in
the late 1980s and early 1990s in Washington state, there
were heinous crimes committed by sex offenders who had been
released from prison and who could be classified as mentally
ill. He said that as a result of those acts came the
Washington Sexual Predator Act which allowed for sex
offender registration and civil commitment of sexually
violent predators. He asserted that statutory confinement
is short-term in duration and that the civil commitment
procedure is typically longer.
REP. PARNELL summarized the commitment procedure. He stated
that the general use of the act would apply to prisoners who
had been incarcerated for sexual offenses and were about to
be released from the Department of Corrections (DOC). The
DOC would send a notice to the Attorney General's Office
informing them that a potential sexual offender was about to
be released. The Attorney General's Office would then
determine if the person was a sexual predator, as defined in
the Act (someone who is mentally ill and dangerous). Rep.
Parnell referred to the last page of the Act for further
definition of sexual predator. He continued to say that if
the Attorney General's Office determined that they wanted to
petition the court and have the individual committed to
DHSS's care, they would file a petition, and by proving
probable cause, the court would have a trial. If the
Attorney General proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the
individual is a sexual predator, that person would then be
committed to DHSS for treatment and confinement.
REP. PARNELL addressed hypothetical questions he thought
might arise. He said that currently DHSS was envisioning
using contract facilities and the Alaska Psychiatric
Institute (API) may be another option. He said the
Department of Law estimated that two to three people a year
would be prosecuted under the proposed act.
REP. PARNELL stated that the cost was indicated in the
fiscal notes and was based on ten offenders annually. He
also said the constitutionality of the bill contained strict
procedural safeguards and it was upheld by Washington
Supreme Court with the exception of two provisions. He
mentioned that he had just learned of the two provisions and
was going to introduce them as amendments to either the HESS
Committee or the Judiciary Committee, depending on whether
the bill would be passed out of committee.
REP. PARNELL said there needed to be a requirement in the
bill that would require that the predator "be held by the
least restrictive means of confinement." He said the other
requirement would be to allow the individual being reviewed
for civil commitment to be present at the trial.
Number 773
CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions from the committee.
Number 774
REP. VEZEY said he "confessed to not thoroughly reading the
bill, but when talking about release, are we talking about
before unconditional release or are we talking about parole
or...?"
Number 782
REP. PARNELL said there are two occasions where the proposal
could be put into effect. The first being when the
individual is about to be released from the correctional
facility and transferred to a halfway house or
unconditionally released. He stated that the DOC would then
notify the Attorney General's Office.
Number 794
REP. VEZEY asked how parole fit into the release schedule.
Number 795
REP. PARNELL said he was not sure, but one purpose of the
bill was incapacitation. He said the other way an offender
could be civilly committed was after the prisoner's release
it would have to be proven that a recent, overt act had been
committed. He stated that this was in regard to multiple
sexual offenders.
Number 819
REP. VEZEY wondered if by confinement it was meant before
unconditional release or after unconditional release.
Number 832
REP. PARNELL responded by saying he would get that answer
for Rep. Vezey.
REP. KOTT said, as he understood the bill to read, it lead
him to believe that the offender was beyond correctional
custody.
Number 846
REP. PARNELL stated that if all of the offender's debt to
society had been paid, the Attorney General would then have
to prove a recent overt act in order to civilly commit the
offender.
Number 857
REP. TOOHEY indicated that she wanted to see the bill pass
out of committee, and asked if a person who raped once could
be a sexual, violent predator.
Number 862
REP. PARNELL stated "that the practical effect of how people
are prosecuted under this bill is that multiple offenses
have been shown before these people have been civilly
committed."
Number 872
REP. TOOHEY said that the proposal made no definition
between a person who rapes once and a multiple offender.
Number 875
REP. PARNELL said "the distinction here is mentally ill and
dangerous." Constitutionally, the focus will be to prove
mental illness and the threat of danger.
Number 886
REP. VEZEY asked, if a person has fully served the specified
time, how could he/she be civilly committed unless he/she
was found to be mentally incapacitated?
Number 895
REP. PARNELL said that was discussed in the Washington
Supreme Court case. He said the reason for civil commitment
was for treatment of mental illness and confinement. He
stated that, constitutionally, the state has the power to
treat a mentally ill person and to protect the public from
violent acts by that person.
Number 918
CHAIR BUNDE introduced Jayne Andreen.
Number 923
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic
Violence and Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety,
testified in support of HB 349. She wanted to make the
committee aware of the nature of sexual offenders by stating
that they are different from other offenders in that they
usually show a predisposition to that type of crime, and
even with treatment, there was an inordinately high rate of
recidivism for sexual offenders. She stated that when
mental illness is compounded with the predisposition, the
result is the sexual predator that HB 349 is trying to
address. Ms. Andreen referred to the brutal rape of a Homer
woman by William Lange, a repeat offender from Washington
who was supposedly rehabilitated by a church organization
and relocated to Homer. She stated that most sexual
offenders are good at presenting themselves as reformed.
She urged strongly that the state provide the highest level
of public safety against sexual offenders and encouraged the
committee to support HB 349.
Number 977
REP. KOTT stated that the proposed bill would have no affect
on the sexual predator already released and on the streets.
He asked if it would not be better to have a 50 year
mandatory sentence for sexual offenders.
Number 991
MS. ANDREEN responded by saying that the bill would
specifically address the most violent, mentally ill
offenders that the DOC knows will reoffend.
Number 999
REP. KOTT felt all sex offenders should be off the streets.
Number 004
CHAIR BUNDE introduced Caren Robinson.
Number 006
CAREN ROBINSON, Lobbyist, Alaska Network on Domestic
Violence and Sexual Assault, testified in support of HB 349.
She started her testimony by reiterating the story of Henry
Bucholz, a multiple sex offender who is suspected in the
death of an Anchorage woman. Also, she referred to Timothy
Seton who, two hours after his release, brutally raped a
female relative. Ms. Robinson indicated that she wanted to
amend part of the proposed legislation. She asked that the
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault also be
included on page 3, line 21. The line would read: "In
adopting the regulations under this subsection, the
department shall consult with the Department of Corrections
and the Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault."
She stated that the members of the council included
representatives from DOC, DHSS and Public Safety. She also
passed out copies of a chart that indicated the number of
reported rapes committed against women. The chart did not
include sex crimes against children or men. She stressed
that the bill was designed for the worst violent sex
offenders that needed to be confined.
Number 110
REP. BRICE stated that the state was not locking the
offenders up and throwing away the key, but there was
treatment during confinement and a review each year to
determine if the offender should reenter society or remain
in confinement.
Number 138
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the sponsor had indicated that the
bill was for treatment as well as for isolation.
MS. ROBINSON felt that the amount of money DHSS was
requesting for sex offender treatment was perhaps too high.
She urged the sponsor and the committee to look at that
point.
Number 153
REP. TOOHEY said, "As a medical nurse, the treatment of sex
offenders is palliative, and, we are deluding ourselves if
we think we can change the habits of some of these
predators." She said there was no such thing as a "normal"
rapist and felt they should all be put away for a long time.
Number 167
MS. ROBINSON said that she had spent time with sex offenders
who had to speak to the history of their offenses. She
found that most of the offenders had been convicted of a
much less severe crime as compared to the ones they
addressed in their histories.
Number 186
REP. OLBERG stated for the record "that the only reason I
can support locking them up and throwing away the key is
because they're still alive. I would prefer that they not
be."
Number 190
CHAIR BUNDE pointed out, for the record, that there is
treatment and confinement involved in the bill, noting that
treatment was not highly successful.
CHAIR BUNDE asked James McLain to testify.
Number 198
JAMES McLAIN, Member, Board of Parole, testified on behalf
of himself in support of HB 349. He felt that the proposal
was "incredibly" optimistic in regards to the number of
people who would need to be civilly committed each year. He
said that there are less than 100 sex offenders in the state
that he considered "truly" dangerous sexual predators.
TAPE 94-09, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. McLAIN stated that the vast number of prisoners are in
the system as a result of committing sex crimes and it would
cost one-half of the state's entire budget to confine and
treat them. He said there are sexual predators who never
commit a violent act, citing an incident in Juneau where a
person who was hired into a position designed to protect
children abused them. He pointed out that pedophiles are
exemplary prisoners, stating that they do not create
problems, they are mild people generally, and they do what
they are told. Nonetheless, when they are released they
offend again. He expressed concerns as to how a prisoner
would be evaluated and how a violent sexual act would be
defined.
Number 171
REP. VEZEY reiterated that Mr. McLain felt that the proposed
bill needed more work and that a vehicle was needed to
restrain certain sex offenders, in addition to existing
laws.
Number 187
MR. McLAIN agreed.
Number 200
REP. VEZEY asked if the confinement outlined in the bill
would be effective in preventing continued repeat offenses,
citing the term "minimal confinement."
Number 203
MR. McLAIN stated that sexual predators need to be
incarcerated.
Number 253
REP. PARNELL said that with civil commitment there is a duty
of treatment and confinement. It was not his intent that
these prisoners be put in halfway houses. He felt their
criminal histories and their psychological profiles would
indicate the type of confinement needed.
Number 283
MR. McLAIN remarked that facilities such as Spring Creek and
similar facilities for the mentally insane are needed for
sexual predators who have been civilly committed.
Number 306
REP. TOOHEY asked Rep. Parnell if the sexual predator would
be confined in a secure mental facility; e.g., API.
Number 320
REP. PARNELL agreed and added that the facilities could not
be DOC facilities, they would have to be DHSS facilities.
Number 326
REP. KOTT asked how many sexual offenders were behind bars
currently.
Number 333
MR. McLAIN said he could not answer that question. He
stated that at least one-third of the prisoners reviewed
have some type of sexual violence in their past.
REP. PARNELL said there are 300 to 320 prisoners in the
category of sexual assault.
Number 364
MR. McLAIN stated that those figures pertained to first
degree sexual assault. He said that by the plea process,
prisoners are convicted for lesser crimes and the figures
did not realistically reflect the true capacity of the
offenders for violent sexual crimes.
REP. KOTT inquired as to how many of the 320 prisoners in
the category of sexual assault could be civilly committed.
MR. McLAIN responded that the vague definition of sexual
predator would make it difficult to say how many of those
prisoners could be civilly committed.
Number 435
REP. PARNELL stated that it was at the discretion of the
Attorney General's Office as to how many petitions they will
file for civil commitment.
Number 458
REP. KOTT felt that all offenders have mental "difficulties"
and the recidivism rate for sexual offenders was over 85%.
He said the proposed bill was a good idea, but he really
felt that "50 years or castration" is the best way to go.
Number 494
MR. McLAIN asserted that the bill "was better than what we
have - which is nothing."
Number 524
CHAIR BUNDE thanked Mr. McLain for his testimony and
introduced Leonard Abel.
Number 527
DR. LEONARD ABEL, Community Mental Health Services Program
Administrator, Division of Mental Health and Developmental
Disabilities, testified in support of HB 349. As a clinical
psychologist, he described what he felt to be the type of
person a sexual offender is. He said that a number of
predators are not mentally ill by statutory definition,
citing that the statute "requires that the person has a
condition that has substantial (the following is a direct
quote from statute) ..."has substantial adverse effects on
an individual's ability to exercise conscious control of the
individual's actions, or the ability to perceive reality, or
to reason, or to understand." He stated that the people in
the group being talked about are fully capable of having
conscious control over their behavior. He felt, even if the
proposal were amended, those offenders would not likely be
committed under that definition of mentally ill. Dr. Abel
said that they have a "mental abnormality." He said the
abnormality lies in severely impaired social functioning.
The offenders have no regard for the feelings and rights of
their victims. They have no sustained interpersonal
relationships and they act out aggressively and impulsively
to achieve immediate gratification of their needs. They
experience no remorse.
DR. ABEL felt that the proposed legislation was "going in
the right direction," but it needed more work in regards to
the length of time needed to rehabilitate sex offenders. He
expressed concerns from the department over cost. He felt
there were varying numbers as to how many offenders fit the
definition, citing that a clinician from DOC estimated 40-50
persons per year. He also stated that API would not be a
suitable location to fulfill the "least restrictive"
requirement because API was going to become a strictly
tertiary care treatment facility. He said that the fiscal
note was based on "staff secure" residential facilities. He
said that type of confinement is not like a halfway house.
Number 730
REP. VEZEY asked how many years it takes for rehabilitation.
Number 734
DR. ABEL said some gains could be made with a few clients
within two or three years.
Number 745
REP. VEZEY said that would be about two of every 20 clients
that would make headway within approximately two years.
Number 747
DR. ABEL stated that the expertise needed is not easy to
come across and it would take highly specialized treatment.
Number 750
REP. VEZEY inquired about the other 90% of the offenders
that do not make any gains within the two year time period.
Number 751
DR. ABEL said they would continue to reside there and
receive treatment.
Number 756
REP. VEZEY inquired if that would be for the rest of their
natural life, if need be.
Number 758
DR. ABEL indicated that the way the proposal is written, it
would be a possibility.
Number 763
REP. TOOHEY asked if Harbor View would be suitable for
confinement of those civilly committed. She also felt that
most of the offenders would be "lifetime commitments."
Number 777
DR. ABEL said that if the primary focus was security and
protection of the public, Harbor View would be suitable, but
it may not be constitutionally suitable under the "least
restrictive" guidelines.
REP. OLBERG pointed out that "under my system, recidivism is
zero."
REP. KOTT questioned whether review after one year should be
changed to two or three years.
Number 814
DR. ABEL said that most of the offenders would not likely
make any significant changes in one year. He said that the
one year review offered a civil rights guarantee.
Number 828
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked Rep. Parnell
how he wanted to handle his amendments at that point.
Number 843
REP. PARNELL addressed an earlier question from Rep. Vezey
regarding parole. As he understood HB 349 to read, "the
notice is given by the Department of Corrections three
months before the anticipated release from total
confinement." He felt the notice would be given before the
offender is paroled. He continued on to say if the offender
had been paroled and the DOC realized, after the fact, that
they had released a sexual predator, it would be possible
for the Attorney General's Office to prove a recent overt
act (after being released) and have the parolee civilly
committed.
Number 874
REP. VEZEY asked if the initial sentencing process needed to
be revisited and perhaps changed.
Number 905
REP. PARNELL suggested it was a good addition to amend page
3, line 21, to include the Council on Domestic Violence and
Sexual Assault.
Number 917
CHAIR BUNDE stated that Rep. Toohey moved to adopt the
amendment. Hearing no objection, the amendment was adopted.
Number 918
REP. PARNELL mentioned that the other two amendments that
dealt with "least restrictive" security means and the
exparte proceeding on the "show cause" issue had just
recently come to his attention and he felt they were
constitutional issues that would be better addressed at the
Judiciary Committee level.
Number 931
REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to move the bill out of
committee with individual recommendations.
Number 934
CHAIR BUNDE stated there was an objection and asked for a
roll call vote.
Rep. Toohey Yea
Rep. Bunde Yea
Rep. G. Davis Yea
Rep. Vezey Nay
Rep. Kott Nay
Rep. Olberg Yea
Rep. B. Davis Yea
Rep. Nicholia Yea
Rep. Brice Yea
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the bill had passed out of committee
and on to Judiciary.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE
ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:22 p.m.#
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