Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/16/1993 03:00 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 16, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
Rep. Irene Nicholia
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 189: "An Act relating to the charging, prosecuting, and
sentencing of certain minors concerning offenses
of murder in the first degree, attempted murder in
the first degree, murder in the second degree, and
certain other offenses; and providing for an
effective date."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 82: "An Act relating to school construction grants and
major maintenance grants to school districts;
providing for school district participation in the
cost of school construction and major maintenance;
creating a major maintenance grant fund; and
providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD TO TIME UNCERTAIN
HB 83: "An Act making appropriations for construction and
major maintenance of schools; and providing for an
effective date."
NOT HEARD
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
CHARLES COLE
Attorney General
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 465-3600
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 189
MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 465-4049
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 189
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist
Alaska Women's Lobby; KIDPAC
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 463-6744
Testified in favor of HB 189
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 189
GARY BADER, Director
Division of Administrative Services
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894
Phone: (907) 465-2875
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 82, HB 83
KATHI GILLESPIE, President
Alaska Parent-Teacher Association
2741 Seafarer Loop
Anchorage, Alaska, 99516
Phone: (907) 345-5335
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 82, HB 83
RICHARD M. SWARNER
Executive Director, Business Management
Kenai Peninsula Borough School District
44955 Ptarmigan Place
Soldotna, Alaska 99699
Phone: (907) 262-4056
Position Statement: Testified in favor of HB 82, if amended
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 189
SHORT TITLE: SERIOUS CRIMES BY MINORS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act relating to the charging, prosecuting, and
sentencing of certain minors concerning offenses of murder
in the first degree, attempted murder in the first degree,
murder in the second degree, and certain other offenses; and
providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/01/93 491 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/01/93 491 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/01/93 491 (H) -3 ZERO FNS (ADM, ADM, CORR)
3/1/93
03/01/93 491 (H) -3 ZERO FNS (DHSS, LAW, DPS)
3/1/93
03/01/93 491 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
03/16/93 (H) HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 82
SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION & MAINTENANCE GRANTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act relating to school construction grants and
major maintenance grants to school districts; providing for
school district participation in the cost of school
construction and major maintenance; creating a major
maintenance grant fund; and providing for an effective
date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 131 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 132 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/22/93 132 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 1/22/93
01/22/93 132 (H) -2 ZERO FNS (DOT, REV) 1/22/93
01/22/93 132 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/93 (H) HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 83
SHORT TITLE: APPROP:SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act making appropriations for construction and
major maintenance of schools; and providing for an effective
date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 134 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 134 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/22/93 134 (H) -REVENUE FN (REV) 1/22/93
01/22/93 134 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DOT)
01/22/93 134 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/16/93 (H) HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-37, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:36 p.m., noted
members present, announced the calendar, and announced the
meeting was being teleconferenced to Anchorage, Soldotna,
Tok, Valdez and Healy.
HB 189 - SERIOUS CRIMES BY MINORS
CHARLES COLE, ALASKA ATTORNEY GENERAL, testified in Juneau
in support of HB 189.
Number 062
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee had heard HB 100 and
passed it, but it had been replaced by SB 54.
Number 070
ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE said the administration supports
HB 189 because it was simpler and more straightforward than
other bills. He referred to a chart showing the many
unclassified and class A felonies to which SB 54 applied.
He said that while in some senses SB 54 was acceptable, he
said it was harder to administer and was beyond what the
Department of Law wanted to see at that time. He said it
might be better to limit the automatic waiver of minors to
charges of first-degree murder, second-degree murder, and
attempted first-degree murder. He said it would be a good
idea to keep the current law in effect for some offenses,
which was well suited for offenses other than murder, to
allow time to see how the new waiver requirements worked in
practice.
(Rep. B. Davis arrived at 3:40 p.m.)
Number 123
MARGOT KNUTH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE DEPARTMENT
OF LAW'S CRIMINAL DIVISION, testified in Juneau in support
of HB 189. She said that juvenile waivers create problems
in where to place waived juveniles before trial, where to
place them after trial if convicted of only minor offenses,
and what to do if the juvenile wants to try to demonstrate
amenability to rehabilitation before age 20. These problems
prompted the Department of Law to support automatic waiver
for murder charges, as the fact that such charges have even
been made is an indication that the juvenile's chances of
rehabilitation before age 20 are minimum. Lesser charges
carry no assurance that the juvenile involved was not
amenable to rehabilitation. The current system requires
prosecutors to prove a juvenile is not amenable to
rehabilitation, a problem that will need to be addressed
later, she said. Until then, the automatic waivers for some
charges are a good start in the right direction.
Number 170
REP. VEZEY asked if Ms. Knuth recalled whether the state had
ever shown a person was not amenable to rehabilitation.
Number 175
MS. KNUTH answered that the state prevails in more than half
of the cases in which it seeks to waive juveniles into adult
court, though it is careful of the cases for which it
requests waivers. The state ultimately wins most waiver
hearings for murder cases, she said. A juvenile's earlier
involvement in court proceedings was a good indication that
he was not amenable to rehabilitation.
Number 200
SHERRIE GOLL, LOBBYIST for the ALASKA WOMEN'S LOBBY and
KIDPAC, testified in Juneau in support of HB 189. She said
that while the Women's Lobby generally opposed automatic
waivers, she acknowledged that both the governor and
administration supported the bill, which she said was a more
reasonable approach to the issue than SB 54. She expressed
support for the current system, but said HB 189 was a
reasonable approach.
(Rep. Brice arrived at 3:48 p.m.)
Number 220
CHAIR BUNDE asked for more public testimony, and hearing
none, closed public testimony on HB 189. He asked whether
the committee wanted to discuss the bill further.
Number 231
REP. VEZEY asked the status of HB 100, which the committee
had passed earlier in the session.
CHAIR BUNDE said the bill had been passed to the House
Judiciary Committee, where it was replaced by SB 54.
REP. VEZEY asked if there was a committee substitute for
SB 54.
CHAIR BUNDE said there was a CSSB 54, and HB 100 had not
been passed out of the House Finance Committee.
REP. VEZEY asked the source of the document on juvenile
waivers which had earlier been handed out to the committee
members.
CHAIR BUNDE answered that it had come from the attorney
general's office.
Number 250
ATTORNEY GENERAL COLE said he was concerned with other bills
dealing with waivers for youths aged 15 or under. He
expressed reluctance to involve offenders that young into
the criminal system too far and too fast, when there might
be some hope of rehabilitation. He said the system works
well for offenders that young. He said HB 189 allows the
system to offer some help to juveniles who commit lesser
crimes and who might benefit from rehabilitation.
CHAIR BUNDE expressed a desire to see HB 189 pass to the
House Judiciary Committee, which could then consider both
HB 189 and SB 54.
Number 285
REP. TOOHEY moved passage of HB 189 from the committee with
individual recommendations.
Number 290
CHAIR BUNDE asked for objections, and hearing none, declared
HB 189 passed with individual recommendations. He noted
that he believed the fiscal notes for HB 189 would be large,
while the committee had been provided zero fiscal notes. He
then brought HB 82 and HB 83 to the table.
HB 82 - SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE GRANTS
HB 83 - APPROP: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND
Number 307
GARY BADER, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE
SERVICES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, testified in Juneau
answering questions on HB 82 and HB 83. He briefly
described the provisions of HB 82 and HB 83, establishing
major maintenance and construction grant funds, requiring a
local contribution based on the district's tax base. (The
Department of Education gave a detailed presentation on the
bills to the committee on February 9, 1993, the minutes for
which are on file in the committee room.)
Number 338
KATHI GILLESPIE, PRESIDENT OF THE ALASKA PARENT-TEACHER
ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference from Anchorage,
saying that the state of school construction and foundation
funding of public schools had become the PTA's top statewide
concern in 1993. She said specific concerns included
overcrowding and prioritization of life-safety-health
issues, both addressed by HB 82. If HB 82 were adequately
funded, the PTA would support it, she said, but not if the
current foundation formula priority list was not revised to
address inequities.
Number 370
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the Anchorage School District (ASD) had
any specific suggestions concerning the priority list.
MS. GILLESPIE mentioned the use of portable classrooms as
one concern, as the structures are purchased and maintained
through operating budgets. She also noted the absence of
fire sprinkler systems in all schools, though she
acknowledged that not all schools had to be brought to the
same standards.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if there were ASD schools, other than
O'Malley Elementary, which lacked fire sprinkler systems.
MS. GILLESPIE answered that there were other schools that
did not have fire sprinkler systems, and offered to send him
the information.
Number 379
RICHARD M. SWARNER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR BUSINESS
MANAGEMENT IN THE KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH SCHOOL DISTRICT,
testified via teleconference from Kenai in support of HB 82,
if it were modified. He suggested eliminating provisions
for a five percent annual increase in a local district's
local contribution for construction grants, but expressed
support for the sliding scale for such contributions. He
suggested eliminating or modifying the elements in Section 5
concerning criteria for grants, saying that the Kenai
district's own prioritization of funding requests had not
been followed by the Department of Education (DOE).
CHAIR BUNDE asked a clarifying question about the Kenai
school district's priorities for funding.
Number 303
MR. SWARNER stated that the district had prioritized its
requests one way, but had seen the DOE change the order
after receiving them.
Number 412
REP. G. DAVIS asked whether all of Mr. Swarner's recommended
changes were in a March 9 flier sent to the committee.
MR. SWARNER said he had not sent the flier, and it might
have come from the offices of the Kenai Peninsula Borough.
REP. G. DAVIS asked whether the flier recommended deletion
of page 2, section 3, lines 27-31, to eliminate the
increases in the percentages of the required local
contribution for state construction grants over three years.
MR. SWARNER said yes.
REP. G. DAVIS asked whether the flier recommended rewriting
or eliminating page 4, section 5, so the DOE could start
over with the priority process.
Number 428
MR. SWARNER said yes, and added that the local willingness
to vote for bond issues for the local matching element of
construction grants was an appropriate enough way to gauge
local priorities.
REP. G. DAVIS asked if he had recommended another change.
MR. SWARNER said no, he had not.
Number 440
REP. G. DAVIS asked Mr. Bader his impression of Mr.
Swarner's recommended amendments.
(Rep. Brice departed at 4:07 p.m.)
MR. BADER said, regarding the elimination of the sliding
scale, that there was a possibility of having a fixed
schedule, though he said the DOE would probably let the
committee take the lead in proposing such changes, as they
would require the smallest amount of matching funds. He
said the final match requirements should probably be larger
than those set out in the first year of the sliding scale as
set forth in HB 82.
MR. BADER stated there had been much misunderstanding
regarding the prioritization process. He said the DOE was
directed to place projects in categories, not rank them for
funding according to those categories. As a matter of
policy, under the HB 37 process, the department has ranked
the projects within the categories, then used the categories
for ranking, too. He said HB 82 directs that construction
grants would fund health-life-safety projects, while
protections of structures and code upgrades would be funded
by a separate major maintenance fund. He acknowledged that
the DOE did not prioritize the same way as some local boards
did, possibly because local boards considered some projects
health-life-safety, while the DOE did not.
Number 490
REP. TOOHEY asked whether the DOE physically inspected all
schools for which funding requests had been made.
MR. BADER answered that the DOE tries to see as many
projects as it can, but not all.
REP. TOOHEY asked whether the department ranked life-safety-
health requests without physical inspections.
Number 506
MR. BADER answered that the DOE could rank them without
inspections. While the DOE would like to make its own
inspections, the rankings are based in large part on reports
from engineers, fire marshals and other professionals.
REP. TOOHEY asked the ranking of the (Anchorage) Service
High School roof, which collapsed under a load of snow.
Number 506
REP. VEZEY asked if the state was constructing schools with
built-in life-safety problems. He asked what was the source
of such problems.
MR. BADER said weathering and age cause most of such
problems, and the state was not building flaws into schools.
Aging, deterioration and lack of essential maintenance are
the main causes of life-safety-health problems in schools,
he said. He also pointed out that changing building
standards, such as the discovery that asbestos and lead were
dangerous, were at the root of many life-health-safety
projects.
Number 525
REP. VEZEY noted the tightening of building standards on
lead plumbing in 1992. He commented that if, as he had been
told, school buildings were experiencing structural
deterioration due to inadequate maintenance, then that was
evidence of criminal negligence on someone's part.
MR. BADER said the reasons for the deterioration vary.
Number 540
REP. VEZEY commented that the tightening standards on
asbestos, lead and fiberglass were having the effect of
threatening to legislate the usefulness out of 20-year-old
school buildings.
MR. BADER pointed out that much of HB 82 dealt with
maintenance. He said $40 million was appropriated under the
bill to maintenance grants, and $120 million to
construction, but it was spent on almost as many maintenance
projects as construction projects. He pointed out the
requirements in HB 82 for school districts to prove
compliance with maintenance plans in order to receive any
new grants.
Number 561
CHAIR BUNDE expressed sympathy with Rep. Vezey's expressions
of frustration with poorly designed or built school
structures. He questioned whether all local school boards
possess the proper level of expertise necessary to ensure
that they construct good school buildings.
REP. OLBERG stated that the root of much of the problem with
school construction in Alaska was the use of flat roofs. He
said he had told DOE Commissioner Jerry Covey that the state
would save millions of dollars by insisting on peaked roofs
for public buildings. He said he would not support funding
for state buildings unless they had peaked roofs.
Number 576
REP. VEZEY stated he was not commenting about poor
construction or design, but on the changing of building
standards. He said Mr. Bader had implied that adequate
structures had deteriorated due to lack of maintenance. He
noted that many of the projects listed in HB 83 include
roofs. He said he did not have enough information to see
why they were classified as life-health-safety projects.
REP. BRICE concurred with Rep. Olberg, and said that the
bill did not include requirements to establish design
criteria for the construction of new school buildings that
could help prevent either over or under-building of such
structures.
TAPE 93-37, SIDE B
Number 007
REP. OLBERG noted that nine of the projects outlined in
HB 83 involved roofs, totalling $2.66 million, and said the
state should have standard school designs.
REP. TOOHEY said she had suggested standardized school
design and peaked roofs at an earlier committee meeting at
which HB 82 was discussed.
CHAIR BUNDE expressed his desire that the committee could
craft the bill and move it to the next committee. As such,
he invited amendments to the bill.
Number 030
REP. VEZEY said he had drafted a proposed amendment to
HB 82. He said he had had problems with HB 82. One was the
graduated scale for local contribution, as it would bring
confusion to a voting public considering whether to approve
bonds. He expressed problems with REAAs funding only 1.4
percent of their school projects. He moved deletion of
HB 82, section 3, paragraph C, an action that would include
REAAs into the provisions of paragraphs A and B. He
expressed the need to define more carefully the term Average
Daily Membership. He also proposed changing the percentage
to 20 percent from 5 percent on line 23; to 30 percent from
15 percent on line 24; to 40 percent from 30 percent on line
25; and to 50 percent from 40 percent on line 26. He said
the state needs to rely more on local input for school
construction. He cautioned the committee against setting
design standards, an area in which they had little
experience, and which could bog the bill down for a long
time with no guaranteed beneficial result.
Number 097
MR. BADER said the DOE was establishing a committee to study
the ranking process. He said a letter from the commissioner
to those participating in the committee included three
points, including standards of construction and standards
for what type of structures the state should pay to build.
He expressed a preference for peaked roofs, but pointed out
that large snow loads in Valdez make peaked roofs less
attractive. He said the DOE had invited three architects
and engineers who had experience building schools, to the
committee to study the process.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the House Health, Education and Social
Services Committee (H/HESS) was premature in considering
HB 82 before the DOE had finished its work.
MR. BADER answered no, as the committee was concerning
itself with issues that could be addressed by regulation.
Number 140
REP. OLBERG suggested that inviting architects to join the
committee was like enlisting foxes to gather the eggs. He
said architects had, in the past, been part of the problem,
and that laymen can have fresh perspectives.
MR. BADER said the three architects would not be in the
majority of the 15-member committee.
Number 151
REP. G. DAVIS stated he was glad to hear concerns about
design standards, and said it was important for the state to
impose some standards to prevent local communities from
scrimping on proper design and construction methods.
REP. OLBERG said standard designs might theoretically save
up to 10 percent of building costs by avoiding the need for
individual designs.
Number 170
REP. VEZEY said that the Fairbanks North Star Borough School
District had gone to a prototype design for elementary
schools a few years ago. While the district saved some on
the building cost, and more for each succeeding building, he
said the architectural fees per building remained the same.
He stated architectural fees include substantial insurance
packages for each structure.
CHAIR BUNDE expressed frustration with an overly detailed
discussion on the bill. He suggested forming a subcommittee
to hold a work session to work out detailed amendments on
HB 82 to put before the board. He asked Mr. Bader why
passage of the bill would require an increase in
administrative costs, as reflected in the DOE fiscal note.
Number 219
MR. BADER said the local matching provision broke new
ground, and it would take some administrative costs to make
sure the school districts met the matching grant
requirements. He said the department will need to ensure
that the maintenance plans are followed. He called some of
the fiscal note amounts modest relative to other matching
grant bills. He said there would be a need for some
additional personnel to administer the $150 million worth of
construction and maintenance work, while the DOE currently
administers from $15 million to $25 million in grants per
year.
Number 243
CHAIR BUNDE said HB 82 and its expenditures would go through
a fine sieve. Seeing no one else wanting to testify on the
bill, he closed public testimony. He asked the committee
members if there were elements in the bill they wanted to
retain.
REP. VEZEY said he believed it was essential to retain the
matching grant provision.
CHAIR BUNDE expressed agreement with Rep. Vezey on that
point.
REP. G. DAVIS expressed agreement as well, but said he had
empathy for Bush areas and REAAs, and hoped their concerns
regarding the bill would be addressed.
CHAIR BUNDE appointed Rep. G. Davis to the subcommittee on
the bill to address those concerns.
Number 267
REP. OLBERG noted that his district included two REAAs, and
said that as Rep. Nicholia was not there to address Bush
areas, he volunteered to serve on the subcommittee.
CHAIR BUNDE named Reps. Brice, Olberg, G. Davis and Vezey to
a subcommittee, with Rep. Vezey as chair, to develop
amendments on HB 82 for the committee by the following week,
in hopes of moving the bill from committee. He said the
rest of the committee was welcome to be involved in the
subcommittee as well.
Number 286
REP. B. DAVIS stated that local school districts should not
be required to provide matching funds of more than 30
percent. She expressed opposition to a 50 percent match.
REP. TOOHEY expressed agreement with Rep. B. Davis on
matching fund levels. Given unfunded federal mandates on
education, she said, 50 percent matching fund requirements
were unreasonable.
Number 302
REP. VEZEY commented that he had proposed 50 percent
matching for some of the state's school districts that had
ratios of taxable property per student that were ten times
those of Anchorage due to their base of wealth in fish or
oil.
CHAIR BUNDE recommended saving arguments until consideration
of actual amendments. He also asked Rep. Vezey to share the
amendments with Mr. Bader for his consideration.
Number 317
REP. G. DAVIS asked that Mr. Bader be notified of the
subcommittee's meeting.
CHAIR BUNDE invited Mr. Bader to participate as a member of
the subcommittee. He then asked if the committee wanted to
continue the meeting to address HB 83.
Number 325
Committee members said informally that, as HB 82 had been
referred to a subcommittee, they would prefer to wait to
consider HB 83.
Number 330
CHAIR BUNDE indicated to committee staff a desire to have
HB 82 considered again at the next available date the
following week. He asked Rep. Vezey to pick a date for his
subcommittee meeting so the HESS Committee could hear HB 82
once again in hopes of passing it to the next committee of
referral.
REP. VEZEY said the committee would have something ready for
discussion, though not a committee substitute, by Tuesday,
March 23, 1993.
Number 337
CHAIR BUNDE announced that HB 82 and HB 83 would come before
the committee on Tuesday, and with luck, the bills could be
passed out on that day.
Number 341
REP. TOOHEY recommended also setting aside Thursday, March
25 for further consideration, so that in any case the bills
would not be held later than the end of the week.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE
ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:44 p.m.
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