Legislature(1995 - 1996)

01/26/1995 03:02 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
          HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                          
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        January 26, 1995                                       
                           3:02 p.m.                                           
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                       
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                            
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 * HB 39:"An Act relating to the authority of mobile intensive                
 care paramedics, physician assistants, and emergency                          
 medical technicians to pronounce death under certain                          
 PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                     
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 421                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4797                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor statement for HB 39.                    
 MATT ANDERSON, Training Coordinator                                           
 State Emergency Medical Services                                              
 P.O. Box 110616                                                               
 Juneau, AK  99811-0616                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3141                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 ELLEN WOFFORD, Trainer                                                        
 Delta Rescue                                                                  
 P.O. Box 1357                                                                 
 Delta Junction, AK  99737                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 895-4746                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 GARY JUDD, Emergency Medical Technician                                       
 North Slope Borough                                                           
 P.O. Box 69                                                                   
 Barrow, AK  99723                                                             
 Telephone:  (907) 852-0265                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 CRAIG LEWIS                                                                   
 Alaska Emergency Medical Services Association,                                
 Interior Region Emergency Medical Services, Inc.                              
 1881 Marika Street                                                            
 Fairbanks, AK  99709                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 456-3978                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 GREG BARCLAY                                                                  
 Central Emergency Services                                                    
 231 S. Binkley Street                                                         
 Soldotna, AK  99669                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 262-4792                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 DR. WILLIAM COOPER                                                            
 Central Emergency Services                                                    
 231 S. Binkley Street                                                         
 Soldotna, AK  99669                                                           
 Telephone:  (907) 262-4792                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 ROCKY ANSELL, Emergency Medical Technician                                    
 P.O. Box 217                                                                  
 Copper Center, AK  99573                                                      
 Telephone:  (907) 822-5361                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 39.                           
 JACK HEESCH, Lobbyist                                                         
 Alaska Academy of Physician Assistants                                        
 P.O. Box 201608                                                               
 Anchorage, AK  99520                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3381                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented client testimony in support                    
      of HB 39.                                                                
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  HB  39                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: AUTHORITY TO PRONOUNCE DEATH                                     
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,B.Davis,Bunde,G.Davis                
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                  ACTION                                  
 01/06/95        30    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                  
 01/16/95        30    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/16/95        31    (H)   HES, JUD                                          
 01/19/95        90    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BUNDE                               
 01/26/95              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 95-2, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 000                                                                    
 The House Health, Education and Social Services Committee was                 
 called to order by Co-Chair Cynthia Toohey at 3:02 p.m.  Members              
 present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde, Vezey and            
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY stated that a quorum was present.  She announced              
 the meeting is on teleconference with Barrow, Delta Junction,                 
 Fairbanks, Glennallen, Soldotna and Tok.                                      
 Number 073                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY introduced Representative Gene Therriault to the              
 HHES - 1/26/95                                                                
 Number 090                                                                    
 HB 39 - AUTHORITY TO PRONOUNCE DEATH                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, sponsor of HB 39, explained that              
 the bill proposes to allow mobile intensive care paramedics,                  
 physician assistants and emergency medical technicians (EMTs) to              
 determine and pronounce death under certain circumstances.                    
 Registered physician assistants, registered paramedics and                    
 certified emergency medical service may make a determination and              
 pronouncement of death upon determining that a person has suffered            
 irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory function                
 while a physician is not immediately available for consultation by            
 radio or telephone.                                                           
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT continued that currently, when a member             
 of an emergency medical service begins CPR they are required to               
 continue resuscitation until:  The person recovers; the EMT,                  
 physician assistant, or paramedic is relieved by either a medical             
 facility or physician; the responding parties become physically               
 exhausted and no longer are able to continue; their physical safety           
 is seriously threatened; or a physician pronounces the person dead.           
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stated that many times, particularly in             
 rural Alaska, physicians and medical facilities are not immediately           
 available, and emergency medical response members are required to             
 continue unproductive resuscitation for several hours.                        
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained that HB 39 would allow an EMT,            
 physician assistant or paramedic to declare death in situations               
 where a physician is not available.  This will help emergency                 
 response teams to better attend to the emergency medical needs of             
 Number 214                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT added the bill is currently the same bill           
 the HESS committee considered and passed out of the committee last            
 year.  Also, last year testimony was heard from a number of                   
 teleconference sites around the state which recounted efforts where           
 individuals were required to perform resuscitation efforts on a               
 person who was obviously dead, due to the presence of perhaps a               
 fleeting heartbeat.  Once the efforts were begun, they could not be           
 discontinued until someone with authority pronounced the person               
 dead, or the rescuer became physically exhausted or felt his or her           
 life was threatened.                                                          
 Number 266                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said the passage of this bill would set             
 Alaska ahead of other states.  According to legislative research,             
 a number of other states are considering similar legislation,                 
 basically for the same reasons.  But in the state of Alaska there             
 are many remote areas where authorized personnel are unavailable to           
 pronounce death.                                                              
 Number 297                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT directed the committee to read a letter             
 from Craig Lewis, head of the Interior Region Emergency Medical               
 Services Council, and a newspaper article from the Juneau Empire              
 concerning the proposed legislation.  The article recounts a                  
 specific story in which this legislation would have proved                    
 beneficial to all involved.                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT stated the bill tries to be fairly                  
 specific about when death can or cannot be pronounced, and how long           
 cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) must be attempted, taking into            
 consideration hypothermia.                                                    
 Number 380                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said that some changes to the bill have             
 been suggested; therefore, he introduced a Sponsor Substitute to HB
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY noted for the record that Representative Rokeberg             
 arrived at 3:03 p.m., Representative Gary Davis arrived at 3:05               
 p.m., and Representative Brice arrived at 3:06 p.m.                           
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained that changes occur on lines 19            
 and 20 on page 2 of HB 39, where the words collaborative physician            
 have been added.  This is due to the fact that a mobile intensive             
 care paramedic or emergency medical technician works with a                   
 consulting physician, but a physician's assistant works with a                
 collaborative physician.                                                      
 Number 513                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT discussed another change found on page 3,           
 line 13 of HB 39, where the words "properly performed by an                   
 emergency medical technician" have been dropped.  This was so the             
 statute would apply to anyone performing rescue efforts.                      
 Number 568                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT recalled that a member of the House HESS            
 committee asked him a question earlier in the day about page 2,               
 lines 10 and 11 of HB 39.  The individual asked:  If the authority            
 to pronounce death was granted if a physician was not available for           
 consultation by radio or telephone, did that authority to pronounce           
 death under HB 39 continue if a doctor was available by phone or              
 radio, or would resuscitation efforts have to continue fruitlessly?           
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT clarified that the doctor relieved the              
 rescuer from duty, meaning the doctor could tell the rescuer to               
 stop CPR, bring the person to where the physician was and the                 
 doctor would pronounce the victim dead.  The doctor is not able to            
 declare the person dead over the telephone or radio; he or she is             
 only relieving the rescuer of continued resuscitation efforts.                
 Number 666                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if the extent of the injuries which made the            
 patient/victim incompatible with life would have to be relayed to             
 the doctor, therefore giving the doctor the ability to authorize              
 the end of resuscitation efforts.                                             
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT responded that under the terms of the               
 bill, if the rescuer is not in contact with a doctor, the power to            
 declare death would be extended to the rescuer.  If contact is                
 achieved with the consulting official, the rescuer would explain              
 the circumstances and the doctor could then authorize the rescuer             
 to discontinue resuscitation.                                                 
 Number 708                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE moved that the committee use the Sponsor                   
 Substitute for HB 39 as the working document.  Representative Gary            
 Davis seconded the motion and it was passed without objection by              
 Co-Chair Toohey.                                                              
 Number 742                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG said he questioned whether or not              
 there actually were remote places where a doctor could not be                 
 reached for consultation by radio or phone.                                   
 Number 774                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT responded that there are many places in             
 his district where accidents could occur and contact could not be             
 established.  He continued that if CPR begins immediately, there is           
 no time to travel down the road in an attempt to establish contact            
 with an authorized physician.  He reiterated that the power of the            
 rescuer to declare death is erased upon contact with an authorized            
 physician; however, the physician has the ability to relieve the              
 rescuer of his or her resuscitation efforts.                                  
 Number 833                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG felt that the bill would be unnecessary if            
 contact could be established in all cases.  But he now understood             
 the bill would be necessary if contact could not be established.              
 Number 861                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked for testimony via teleconference and from                
 present witnesses.                                                            
 Number 880                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY asked Representative Therriault about the             
 fate of the bill after it was passed out of the House HESS                    
 committee last year.                                                          
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT responded that the bill made it to the              
 Senate Rules committee.  He had to prioritize the four bills he had           
 in that committee.  He felt that HB 39 was so noncontroversial it             
 would be passed out of that committee without incident.  He                   
 Number 917                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY called for testimony from Matt Anderson.                      
 Number 932                                                                    
 MATT ANDERSON, Training Coordinator for the Emergency Medical                 
 Services section within the Department of Health and Social                   
 Services, spoke briefly in support of HB 39.  He felt the bill will           
 do a great deal to help EMTs and paramedics, particularly in                  
 outlying areas and small communities where establishing contact is            
 difficult.  He added that those people preparing to testify from              
 the Mat-Su borough and Fairbanks will agree with him.                         
 Number 966                                                                    
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY recalled discussing state training guidelines last            
 year which would assist rescuers in establishing death.                       
 MR. ANDERSON said he wasn't involved in that testimony but it was             
 clear some training would have to take place.  An entirely new EMT            
 curriculum is being introduced throughout the state, and HB 39                
 would fit nicely into that new training curriculum.  He felt that             
 a great deal of education could be accomplished throughout the                
 state in a very short time.                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY wanted assurance that the additional training would           
 not put further economic strain on the state.  Mr. Anderson said it           
 would not.                                                                    
 Number 1016                                                                   
 MR. ANDERSON added that the bill has a zero fiscal note, and                  
 communication would not be a problem as quick communication can               
 take place through a newsletter to about 4,000 people.                        
 Number 1025                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS solicited comments on the deletion of the           
 words "the presence of post mortem lividity" on page 3, line 3 of             
 HB 39, as requested in a letter by Donald R. Lehmann, M.D.,                   
 president of the Alaska State Medical Association.                            
 MR. ANDERSON responded that he had not seen the letter before the             
 start of the committee meeting, and declaring a position on the               
 deletion was not within his scope of expertise.  He did note that             
 the words in question had been an issue for some time.  He                    
 solicited comments from individuals at the teleconference sites.              
 Number 1070                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS replied he was sure the sponsor of the bill              
 would provide an opinion on the matter and proceedings would                  
 continue from there.                                                          
 Number 1083                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY recalled that he had concerns the last time              
 the bill was heard in the HESS Committee.  He stated he had                   
 difficulties finding people to train as EMTs.  The training was               
 becoming increasingly technical and contained increasing legal and            
 health liabilities.                                                           
 MR. ANDERSON responded that his training classes were always                  
 completely full.                                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if many people dropped out of training.            
 MR. ANDERSON replied that about 50 percent had dropped out by the             
 end of the first two years.  After that level, the attrition                  
 decreases sharply.  Surveys to discover the cause of the attrition            
 revealed that most is caused by relocation or lack of time.                   
 Indeed, some students were afraid of communicable diseases, but not           
 many.  Mr. Anderson added that the legislature has been very good             
 to the Emergency Medical Service in terms of statutes such as AS              
 18.08.086, which provides immunity from liability for EMTs.                   
 Number 1151                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY wondered whether or not it was futile for the            
 legislature to describe the qualities of a dead person to an                  
 emergency medical services provider.  He questioned whether it was            
 beyond common sense to legally require that extra life saving                 
 efforts be performed.                                                         
 MR. ANDERSON said legally they were required to perform extra life            
 saving efforts.  The duty of an emergency medical services provider           
 is to provide life saving practices until the rescuer is physically           
 exhausted, a physician declares the person dead or the patient and            
 rescuer arrive at a medical facility.  Mr. Anderson felt this bill            
 would definitely benefit the majority of people.  He also felt the            
 wording of the bill does a good job of taking the guess work out of           
 the declaration of death.                                                     
 Number 1234                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY recounted that she had performed CPR on a dead                
 person and she was not legally allowed to stop until a physician              
 came on the scene.  It was very difficult.                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY questioned whether they were writing more                
 statutes to solve a problem that was created by a combination of              
 statutes and court decisions.  He wondered if they should simply              
 look at eliminating the problem which was created.                            
 Number 1270                                                                   
 MR. ANDERSON felt the current duty guidelines for resuscitation               
 efforts were standard, and he could not think of another way, other           
 than HB 39, to spare people from performing resuscitation efforts             
 in a futile situation.                                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY surmised that something could be added to the            
 statute as outrageous as "If the EMT thinks a person is dead...."             
 MR. ANDERSON felt that would result in many people expressing                 
 concern over the consequences.  It would put EMTs and others at               
 much more risk for litigation.                                                
 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if that problem would be solved if                 
 something was added about absolution from liabilities.                        
 MR. ANDERSON responded that standards by which decisions about                
 death were made would have to be present, and such standards exist            
 currently in HB 39.  Medical directors would not want people                  
 arbitrarily making decisions on life and death based simply on                
 judgment.  Specific criteria would be necessary.                              
 Number 1350                                                                   
 ELLEN WOFFORD, Trainer, Delta Junction Rescue, spoke via                      
 teleconference on behalf of the Delta Rescue Squad in support of HB
 Number 1371                                                                   
 GARY JUDD, an emergency medical technician in Barrow, Alaska,                 
 testified via teleconference and expressed support for HB 39 on               
 behalf of the emergency services workers of the North Slope                   
 Borough.  He felt the bill would alleviate many problems for                  
 emergency workers in very rural areas.  He asserted that in many              
 rural areas it is very seldom that radio or telephone contact can             
 be established with physicians.  The toll extended resuscitation              
 efforts takes on providers is great.  He felt the bill constituted            
 good judgment and applauded the committee's support of this bill.             
 Number 1438                                                                   
 CRAIG LEWIS, of the Alaska Emergency Medical Services Association             
 and the Interior Region Emergency Medical Services Inc., testified            
 on behalf of those groups via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He              
 felt the bill was sound and competent.  He reiterated previous                
 testimony that establishing contact with physicians is very                   
 difficult in outlying and rural areas.  In such a situation, the              
 relatives of the deceased are traumatized, the competence of the              
 EMT is questioned and the EMT often questions his or her ability to           
 save lives.  A dead person, according to the criteria in the bill,            
 should be treated as if they are dead, not alive.  He hoped the               
 bill would again pass out of committee.                                       
 Number 1518                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked those testifying via teleconference to comment           
 on the letter written by Dr. Lehmann and the deletions he                     
 recommended.  The letter says the members of the Alaska State                 
 Medical Association oppose any dilution of the clear guidelines               
 listed in Section 2 of this bill.  Some members also have expressed           
 concern and request that line 3 of page 3, item C, the presence of            
 post mortem lividity, be deleted.  They feel that pathologists feel           
 this criteria can be problematic and should not be used by EMTs in            
 the field as a signifier of death.                                            
 Number 1597                                                                   
 MS. WOFFORD responded via teleconference that post mortem lividity            
 is a clear indicator of death, and the criteria should be left in             
 the bill.                                                                     
 Number 1619                                                                   
 MR. JUDD also felt the bill should be left as is.  Post mortem                
 lividity is identifiable and would probably not be as large an                
 issue as the letter implies.                                                  
 MR. LEWIS testified that he remembered this discussion from last              
 year.  Many scientists feel the need to criticize semantics and               
 language and science, and practicality should be separated in this            
 case.  Post mortem lividity may not stand alone as the singular               
 indicator of death, it may be in a list of indicators.  However,              
 some living individuals may exhibit this state and in that case, he           
 would encourage training for emergency medical service providers on           
 post mortem lividity.                                                         
 Number 1698                                                                   
 GREG BARCLAY, Central Emergency Services, Soldotna, was called upon           
 by Co-Chair Toohey to comment via teleconference on the section               
 concerning post mortem lividity.  He was very supportive of the               
 bill, but wished to let a present physician testify concerning post           
 mortem lividity.                                                              
 Number 1730                                                                   
 DR. WILLIAM COOPER, Medical Director of Central Emergency Services            
 and emergency physician, testified via teleconference that he has             
 been in Alaska for 12 years dealing with paramedics and emergency             
 services.  He felt the bill was long overdue for all the reasons              
 stated by those testifying before him.  He reiterated there were              
 many remote areas in the Kenai Peninsula and many areas were                  
 unreachable by radio and telephone.  He felt it was pragmatically             
 impossible to get patients from these places to areas where                   
 consultation could be achieved.                                               
 DR. COOPER continued that those conditions place a large burden on            
 EMTs.  The resuscitation times stipulated in the bill for cold                
 water drowning were very reasonable, and Dr. Cooper applauded the             
 bill.  Concerning post mortem lividity, he said the determination             
 of death involves many criteria including pupil response,                     
 respiration, and monitored responses to resuscitation.  He would              
 not place much emphasis on that one line.  He felt that whether               
 that line was included in the bill or not was not as important as             
 the whole bill being passed.                                                  
 Number 1822                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked for a definition of post mortem lividity from           
 the doctor.                                                                   
 DR. COOPER explained that post mortem lividity occurs when                    
 circulation ceases and gravity settles the blood into the                     
 appendages of the body.  It looks like a bluish area.  Most EMTs              
 recognize this as an indicator that a person has been dead for any            
 length of time.  When this state appears is variable according to             
 temperature and conditions.  He reiterated his confidence that all            
 emergency medical service providers he has dealt with could deal              
 with post mortem lividity effectively.                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Dr. Cooper to repeat his comfort with           
 the times established in the bill for resuscitation efforts.                  
 DR. COOPER responded that he realized there is some controversy               
 about those times, especially in the areas of hypothermia and cold            
 water near-drowning.  However 60 minutes, along with the                      
 temperature level of the individual, is what he uses to base his              
 resuscitation times upon.  By and large, the training of Alaskan              
 EMTs is such that they are well aware of these situations.                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG also questioned if 30 minutes was                     
 reasonable concerning pulmonary resuscitation as it relates to                
 cardiac arrest.                                                               
 DR. COOPER felt that actually, if a person who had a normal body              
 temperature did not respond in 10 or 15 minutes, he or she was not            
 going to respond.  Thirty minutes provided plenty of response time.           
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked about cases in which a person had               
 been submerged in cold water, and what was a reasonable length of             
 time to attempt resuscitation.                                                
 DR. COOPER answered in such a case, resuscitation will be attempted           
 for 60 minutes.  He assured the committee that training teaches               
 rescuers that circumstances may extend that time period.  Sixty               
 minutes is simply a guideline.  The EMTs he is associated with                
 would not stop resuscitation efforts at an exact set time if they             
 felt there was a chance to save a life.                                       
 Number 2008                                                                   
 ROCKY ANSELL, EMT, Copper River Medical Services, testified via               
 teleconference from Glennallen.  Testifying as an EMT in rural                
 Alaska where response times may be quite extensive, he supported HB
 39.  He also had been involved in futile resuscitation efforts and            
 had he been able to pronounce death legally, it would have been a             
 blessing; not only to him but to the family members and the entire            
 medical team.  The family members knew their loved one was                    
 deceased, and if death could have been pronounced, the grieving               
 process could have begun.  As it was, the entire family was further           
 traumatized by the actions of the medical responders who were doing           
 their job as prescribed by the current law.                                   
 MR. ANSELL continued that such a situation is unacceptable in                 
 Glennallen.  He added that the section on post mortem lividity                
 should be left in the bill, as it is just one of the many signs of            
 death.  He assured the committee that if a medical responder has              
 any doubt about whether death has occurred, he or she attempts                
 Number 2080                                                                   
 JACK HEESCH, President of the J.R. Heesch Company, and lobbyist for           
 the Alaska Academy of Physician Assistants testified in person. He            
 read into the record a letter which stated:  "The Alaska Academy of           
 Physician Assistants is in support of HB 39. This bill will give              
 the authority to physician's assistants to pronounce death.  While            
 in urban areas, where physicians, coroners and law enforcement                
 personnel are available, pronouncement of death is not generally a            
 problem.  But since our state is mainly rural and these personnel             
 are often not available in the bush, it has become an issue.  A               
 number of villages and remote industrial sites have physician                 
 assistants available to perform the duty of pronouncement of death.           
 Please give your support for the bill.  Thank you."                           
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked for any further testimony from the audience.            
 Number 2117                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE asked for clarification from                         
 Representative Therriault on the sectional analysis.  He asked if             
 it corresponds to the committee substitute bill or to the original            
 HB 39.                                                                        
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT responded that the sectional analysis was           
 to the original bill.  He felt it should still apply.                         
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY closed the bill to public testimony and asked for             
 the pleasure of the committee.                                                
 Number 2140                                                                   
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE moved that CSHB 39 be passed from the HESS committee           
 with the accompanying zero fiscal note onto the next committee of             
 referral.  Hearing no discussion, Co-Chair Toohey announced that              
 the bill had been passed out of the committee.                                
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY adjourned the meeting at 3:46 p.m.                            

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