Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/14/1994 03:00 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 14, 1994                                        
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Rep. Tom Brice (Excused)                                                     
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Rep. Jerry Sanders                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Confirmation Hearing:  Commissioner of Health and Social                     
                         Services, Margaret Lowe                               
                                                                               
  HB 356:   "An Act relating to living wills and do not                        
            resuscitate orders; and providing for an effective                 
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
                                                                               
  *HB 412:  "An Act relating to facilities for the care of                     
            children; to child placement agencies; to                          
            maternity homes; to certain residential facilities                 
            for adults; and to foster homes for adults; and                    
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD                                                     
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  MARGARET LOWE, Acting Commissioner                                           
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110601                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3030                                                       
  Position Statement:  Addressed the committee                                 
                                                                               
  LYNNE SMITH, Committee Aide                                                  
  House HESS Committee                                                         
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-6825                                                       
  Position Statement:  Answered questions regarding                            
  confirmation                                                                 
                                                                               
  MARK JOHNSON, Chief                                                          
  Emergency Medical Services Section                                           
  Division of Public Health                                                    
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box H                                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0616                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3027                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified on HB 356                                     
                                                                               
  PAT O'BRIEN, Social Services Program Officer                                 
  Division of Family and Youth Services                                        
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110630                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0630                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-2145                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 412                          
                                                                               
  LARE, President                                                              
  Alaska Association for the Education of Young Children                       
  1805 Bunker St.                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 274-7793                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 412                          
                       (spoke via teleconference)                              
                                                                               
  NANCY JOHNSON, Staff Person                                                  
  Division of Family and Youth Services                                        
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  751 Old Richardson Hwy.                                                      
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99701                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 451-2650                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 412                          
                       (spoke via teleconference)                              
                                                                               
  MARY MATTHEWS, Family Support Coordinator                                    
  Fairbanks Resource Agency                                                    
  P.O. Box 80196                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99708                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 456-8901                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 412                          
                       (spoke via teleconference)                              
                                                                               
  JODY ENGELMAN, Executive Director                                            
  P.O. Box 32839                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99803                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 789-7610                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 412                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 356                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: LIVING WILLS AND MEDICAL CARE ORDERS                            
  SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                            
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/10/94      2021    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2021    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY                                   
  03/03/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/03/94              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 412                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: COMMUNITY CARE FACILITIES                                       
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/28/94      2177    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/28/94      2178    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  01/28/94      2178    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE (DHSS) 1/28/94                      
  01/28/94      2178    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  03/14/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-48, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m., noted                  
  members present and announced the calendar.  He then asked                   
  Commissioner Lowe to make an opening statement.                              
                                                                               
  Number 003                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARGARET LOWE, Acting Commissioner, Department of Health and                 
  Social Services (DHSS), stated that she has been in Alaska                   
  since 1951 and her major areas of training and professional                  
  expertise have been in education.  She started working with                  
  people with special needs in the early 1960's.  She                          
  indicated that in 1954 she walked up and down Fourth Avenue                  
  in Anchorage carrying a placard that said, "I am a little                    
  man for statehood."  She strongly believes in democracy                      
  where all citizens are involved in their government.  She                    
  also stated that she believes strongly in advocacy.                          
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE further explained that she has mostly                      
  worked in the area of education, but she also involved                       
  herself in areas of advocacy and participated on many boards                 
  and commissions at local, state, and national levels.  She                   
  indicated that she has been a registered Republican for all                  
  her voting years and she has been involved for many years in                 
  the processes of administration and with the needs of                        
  Alaskans.                                                                    
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said that of all the administrative                        
  departments, the Department of Health and Social Services is                 
  the "people department," and she does the best that she can                  
  with the resources that she has to problem solve and to meet                 
  the needs of Alaskans.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 145                                                                   
                                                                               
  (Chair Bunde indicated for the record that Representatives                   
  B. Davis and Nicholia arrived at 3:08 p.m.)                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he was glad that the little man for                         
  statehood was gender neutral.                                                
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE responded that it was not in those days.                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said it was her hope that if there is a change                   
  in the governorship in the next election, Commissioner Lowe                  
  would continue to serve her position and indicated that her                  
  job is on the line if and when a new governor is elected.                    
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that she has not set any time                    
  limits on how long she would serve as commissioner and that                  
  she is not obligated in any way to leave.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 212                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA asked Commissioner Lowe her views on the                       
  future of the Behavioral Health Aid Program, its potential                   
  for expansion, and its success rate in rural areas.                          
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE asked if Rep. Nicholia was referring to                    
  the Human Resources Health program that is under the DHSS.                   
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA replied yes.                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that the program is one of the                   
  most cost effective programs going in the DHSS and that it                   
  does all the right things in that it trains                                  
  paraprofessionals and uses their abilities as they climb the                 
  career ladder.  She explained that the successful programs                   
  are an incentive to other villages to start their own                        
  programs.  She stated that she strongly believes that the                    
  young people in the rural villages must be professionally                    
  trained and she felt that every possible incentive is given                  
  to them through the program.  She indicated that there has                   
  only been positive feedback, and if resources were to become                 
  available, she would triple the size of the program.                         
                                                                               
  Number 284                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS stated that the man in the street is saying                    
  cut the budget.  He said the DHSS has one of the largest                     
  budgets for the entire state.  He indicated that possibly up                 
  to $200 million could be cut from the DHSS budget and asked                  
  "could you do that and still be here, do you think?"                         
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE asked if Rep. G. Davis was asking if she                   
  could live with a cut that deep.                                             
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS said yes.                                                      
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said she could, but indicated that as                      
  resources are continually being limited, the department is                   
  challenged to become more creative and to avoid duplication.                 
  She also said that integration of services in the most cost                  
  effective way would also help to ease the impact.  She                       
  stated that all citizens need to understand that "we are                     
  where we are because we were all a part of the picture.  It                  
  wasn't just I or just you who got us to this point."                         
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS said it was a good answer that sounded quite                   
  like campaign promises or discussions.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 353                                                                   
                                                                               
  (Chair Bunde indicated that Rep. Sanders was present and                     
  welcomed him to join the committee at the table.)                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE referred to the significant travel budget within                 
  the DHSS and asked if Commissioner Lowe had any ideas as to                  
  how to reduce that budget.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 355                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that most people do not fully                    
  understand just how much of that budget is used for moving                   
  sick clients, children, mentally ill patients and juvenile                   
  offenders.  She said a great portion of the budget is                        
  actually direct services to people.  She indicated that                      
  budget cutting in that area of the travel budget would be                    
  quite difficult.  She also explained that DHSS staff people                  
  need to travel in order to do their job.  She felt the more                  
  they travel the more they are capable of doing a better and                  
  more thorough job by visiting sites more often and providing                 
  more technical assistance.  However, she did submit that the                 
  use of teleconferencing could be used more often and that                    
  she would take a closer look at the travel habits of their                   
  clinicians and professionals.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 451                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE explained that the general public does not                       
  understand how difficult it would be to limit the travel of                  
  clients and encouraged her to find ways to curtail the                       
  travel expenses of department clinicians and professionals;                  
  i.e., more electronic communications and people working out                  
  of their homes.                                                              
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE indicated that lap-top computers are very                  
  helpful and felt they are a step in the right direction                      
  toward efficiency.                                                           
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA agreed that it is important that the                           
  clinicians travel to rural villages to continue their work.                  
  She then asked what strategies would be used by the DHSS to                  
  address the problems of alcoholism and suicide.                              
                                                                               
  Number 501                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE stated that she has been struggling with                   
  both issues for quite some time.  She indicated that                         
  inhalant abuse is a profound problem among youths today.                     
  She explained that studies have shown that a heavy                           
  concentration on educational programs helps to reduce                        
  substance abuse among youths.  Commissioner Lowe felt that                   
  programs that are in urban and rural areas and the use of                    
  paraprofessionals in the villages are contributing factors                   
  in the fight against addiction and the high suicide rate.                    
  She asserted that continuous contact between two people on                   
  an ongoing basis is very important to the recovery from                      
  addiction.  However, she said, currently the programs do not                 
  allow them enough time to recover and indicated that up to                   
  twelve years is nothing.  She also mentioned that an                         
  important aspect of proactive programs is the self-                          
  actualization of cities, towns, and villages.  They must                     
  become involved in their own growth.  However, she indicated                 
  that there must be support from the DHSS as most places                      
  cannot do that on their own.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 575                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Commissioner Lowe if progress is being                     
  made in the areas of public health and prevention regarding                  
  individual health.                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said that there has been much progress in                  
  the programs that address alcoholism and mental illness and                  
  noted that there are various programs that can address those                 
  issues.  She felt that programs that address family support,                 
  such as families with a member who is mentally ill, families                 
  that have a member who is developmentally disabled, and                      
  families that are dealing with an elderly member, are very                   
  important and slowly making gains in the state.  She asked                   
  Chair Bunde if his question had been answered.                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he was asking if the state should be                        
  optimistic or pessimistic, but indicated that obviously the                  
  state should be optimistic.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 655                                                                   
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE also explained that the more the DHSS can                  
  learn, the more able they will be to overcome the scarcity                   
  of resources.                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE reiterated that resources are scarce and agreed                  
  that a can do attitude will help to overcome the limiting                    
  factor of money.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 664                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT referred to the serious drug and alcohol problem                   
  in the state and said that many people believe that the                      
  state has "been throwing good money after what I would                       
  call... bad solutions."  He asked Commissioner Lowe if she                   
  had any solutions that would turn the trend around.                          
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said she could not turn the trend around                   
  with less resources.  She explained that recovery from                       
  addiction is a very long process and the philosophy is that                  
  a person must stay in recovery the rest of their life, they                  
  can never forget that they've been addicted.  She reminded                   
  the committee that the population of Alaska has been growing                 
  consistently and that young people are becoming chemically                   
  dependent at younger ages.  She further indicated that if                    
  she could have things her way, she would highly prioritize                   
  it as an area that the state should put a lot of resources                   
  into, as it is a very long and costly process.  Commissioner                 
  Lowe explained that abstinence is the base of the programs                   
  under DHSS and she referred to twelve step programs as                       
  another source for recovery that also suggests the practice                  
  of abstinence.                                                               
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE further stated that different things work                  
  for different people and pointed out acupuncture as another                  
  form of prevention that is a small part of a grant in                        
  Juneau.  She again stated that the various types of                          
  treatment require a lot of resources.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 739                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE referred to the high rates of teen pregnancy,                    
  sexually transmitted diseases, and AIDS cases and asked                      
  Commissioner Lowe if there was progress being made in those                  
  areas.                                                                       
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE felt that the DHSS was doing a good job in                 
  terms of surveillance, educational materials, and treatment.                 
  She said it takes more than a young student receiving a week                 
  of training or lessons to really teach them the impact that                  
  a disease or addiction can have on their lives.  She said                    
  the process must be continual and that people must be                        
  inundated with education to counteract many misperceptions                   
  and wrong messages that she believes the public gains from                   
  television.  She promoted one on one support and volunteer                   
  work.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 779                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "It might be helpful for every Hollywood                   
  production we have on RATNET, we could have an educational                   
  program to go hand in hand."                                                 
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said she felt the quality on public                        
  television was definitely higher than that of RATNET.                        
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asserted that the state is edging on full blown                  
  AIDS epidemics in rural villages.  She suggested that                        
  perhaps some type of programming be done on RATNET to                        
  educate villages.  She then asked if the DHSS is ready for                   
  the devastation of the AIDS epidemic.                                        
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE said no.  She felt that there is much                      
  planning to do and that the Healthy Alaskan 2000 document is                 
  almost back from the printers.  She said the planning has                    
  not been costed out and much more work needs to be done.                     
                                                                               
  Number 831                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY urged Commissioner Lowe to work with Indian                      
  Health Services and referred to the AIDS epidemic as a time                  
  bomb.                                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further questions.  There being none,                  
  he asked the pleasure of the committee.                                      
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked what the wording would be for the motion.                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that perhaps the preferred phrasing would                   
  be to pass Commissioner Lowe's name to the Speaker with the                  
  committee members' individual recommendations.                               
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said so moved.                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG said for the record that he would make that                      
  motion with his personal strong support for the confirmation                 
  of Commissioner Lowe.                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE repeated the motion and asked for any                            
  objections.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY objected.                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Rep. Vezey to speak to his objection.                      
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY indicated that the format for the motion is to                    
  pass the nomination from the committee without any specific                  
  recommendations.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he believed it was with individual                          
  recommendations and asked for input from Lynne Smith, the                    
  House HESS Committee aide.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 860                                                                   
                                                                               
  LYNNE SMITH said that individual recommendations were made                   
  on boards and commissions last year.  She indicated it did                   
  not reflect an intent by any members to vote for or against                  
  the individual during any further sessions for purposes of                   
  confirmation.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 865                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said, "It's your call, Mr. Chairman."                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "It's not an indication of your intent to                  
  vote on the floor.  If I might read this for the committee:                  
  Dear Madam Speaker, In accordance with AS 39.05.080 the                      
  House Health Education and Social Services Committee                         
  reviewed the qualifications of the following individual and                  
  recommends the appointment be forwarded to the joint session                 
  for our consideration.  Commissioner... the Department of                    
  Social Services, Margaret Lowe, this does not reflect any                    
  intent by any member to vote for or against this individual                  
  during the further sessions for the purpose of                               
  confirmation."                                                               
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said, "I make a motion to that effect."                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Rep. Olberg had already made the                  
  motion and asked if Rep. Vezey still maintained his                          
  objection.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said he felt a roll call vote should be taken.                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for the vote.  Representatives Toohey,                    
  Bunde, G. Davis, Vezey, Kott, Olberg, B. Davis and Nicholia                  
  voted Yea.  There were no Nay votes.  Chair Bunde indicated                  
  that Commissioner Lowe's confirmation would go forward to                    
  the Speaker.                                                                 
                                                                               
  COMMISSIONER LOWE commented that a number of the people in                   
  the audience were from the Bridges Campaign for Mental                       
  Health.  She thanked them for their support.                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE thanked the members of the Bridges Campaign for                  
  attending.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that the state was lucky to have                            
  Commissioner Lowe.                                                           
  Number 916                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE brought HB 356 to the table.                                     
                                                                               
  HB 356 - LIVING WILLS AND DNR ORDERS                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Rep. Toohey was the prime sponsor                 
  of the bill which had been before the committee previously                   
  and asked for further discussion.                                            
                                                                               
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY indicated that the questions and                         
  concerns submitted by CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director of                     
  Interior Region Emergency Medical Services Council (IREMSC),                 
  had been addressed.  She further indicated that legal                        
  services felt that the legislation was "on the mark" and all                 
  relevant concerns were addressed in the legislation.                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if there was any additional public                         
  testimony for HB 356.  There was none.                                       
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG asked what became of the recommended changes by                  
  Mr. Lewis.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY indicated that the recommendations were not                      
  accepted.  She said MARK JOHNSON from the Division of Public                 
  Health and representatives of the Division of Legal Services                 
  addressed the concerns and decided that they were not valid.                 
                                                                               
  Number 972                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARK JOHNSON, Chief of the Emergency Medical Services                        
  Section, Division of Public Health, Department of Health and                 
  Social Services, testified on HB 356.  He stated that he had                 
  spoken with Mr. Lewis that morning and indicated that he had                 
  agreed to withdraw all of his objections on the bill.  He                    
  said that it was agreed that some of Mr. Lewis' concerns                     
  would be addressed in the process of regulation and                          
  implementation.                                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion.  Hearing none, he                  
  then asked the pleasure of the committee.                                    
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to move HB 356 out of committee                  
  with individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal                      
  note.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 993                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if there were any objections.  There being                 
  none, Chair Bunde declared that HB 356 was so moved.                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE then brought HB 412 to the table.                                
                                                                               
  HB 412 - COMMUNITY CARE FACILITIES                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked PAT O'BRIEN to address HB 412.                             
                                                                               
  Number 995                                                                   
                                                                               
  PAT O'BRIEN, Social Services Program Officer, Division of                    
  Family and Youth Services (DFYS), Department of Health and                   
  Social Services (DHSS), testified in support of HB 412.  She                 
  stated that she has been involved in licensing for more than                 
  20 years and that she was grateful to the co-chairs for                      
  scheduling a hearing on the legislation.  She reminded the                   
  committee that among them was an expert in the area of                       
  licensing, Rep. Bettye Davis.  She asserted that the                         
  licensing of programs for vulnerable populations is a vital                  
  public function and one that the state has had difficulty                    
  keeping up with in recent years.  She said the focus of the                  
  bill is to work smarter by consolidating a number of                         
  licensing procedures into one particular place to make it                    
  easier for licensers.                                                        
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that the there are over 2000 licensing                 
  facilities and referred to the pie chart in the bill packet                  
  which shows that foster homes and child and child care                       
  facilities take up the majority of the chart.  She indicated                 
  that the smaller sections of the chart are very complex                      
  sections.  She explained that when the legislation is passed                 
  along with the assisted living bill (HB 377), adult                          
  licensing will be removed from DFYS.  She further stated                     
  that if HB 377 fails to be passed, HB 412 contains                           
  provisions that would enable DFYS to continue adult                          
  licensing until an assisted living bill could pass.                          
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said efficiency would be advanced by combining a                 
  variety of regulations, thereby making it easier for those                   
  who work in a one person office in rural areas.  She felt                    
  that consolidation would also make it easier for                             
  communication between private licensing agencies, of which                   
  the division works with approximately twelve.                                
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN pointed out another feature of the legislation                   
  as being a shared partnership with both parents and private                  
  agencies that would make it more clear to the parents that                   
  they have a shared responsibility with the state in                          
  monitoring the care of their children.  She also indicated                   
  that private agencies have asked that liability protection                   
  be placed in the statute for them.                                           
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that the proposal does not constitute                  
  many changes in licensing.  She reiterated that the thrust                   
  of the bill is to consolidate for purposes of efficiency by                  
  combining various processes into the bill.  She continued                    
  testimony with a sectional analysis.                                         
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN stated that Sections 1, 2 and 3 make no change                   
  at all except for numbering to make it compatible with child                 
  care laws, day care assistance programs, and child care                      
  grants.  She explained that Section 4 makes a small change                   
  by allowing for a less onerous grievance procedure rather                    
  than a "full blown" administrative hearing.  She said only                   
  the most serious enforcement steps taken will be an                          
  administrative hearing under the Administrative Procedures                   
  Act.                                                                         
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said that Section 5 is what licensing is all                     
  about.  She said instead of the term "private institutions"                  
  a new title of Community Care Licensing would be used.  She                  
  also said the section clarifies the role of licensing and                    
  their responsibility of informing parents of what their                      
  roles are.  She said the provision includes voluntary                        
  licensure, which is done on a time available basis.                          
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the ability to charge fees has                    
  been included in Section 6.  She said she suspected that                     
  regulations would be promulgated that will provide for fees,                 
  but the department wanted it in statute as soon as possible.                 
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-48, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN further indicated that the division has                          
  contracted with agencies to perform licensing evaluations.                   
  She explained that with a village of 400 people there would                  
  be no agency there to perform an evaluation.  She further                    
  indicated that the division would be able to enter into                      
  agreements with individuals as well as agencies to perform                   
  the evaluations.  Ms. O'Brien said a subsection would                        
  delegate powers to municipalities, and indicated that                        
  currently Anchorage is the only municipality with the power                  
  to adopt state standards.                                                    
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN continued on to say, "Section 7 has to do with                   
  applicability and exemptions.  This is an important section,                 
  and I know it's a long section in the bill, but it pretty                    
  much reflects current practice with the exceptions that I'll                 
  point out.  The four exceptions are... there was an                          
  exception for occasionally placing a child for foster care                   
  or adoption, and we've removed that exception.  As far as we                 
  know, attorneys no longer are doing that without going                       
  through placement agencies.  So, there will be no impact.                    
  We think this is good for children.                                          
                                                                               
  "The exemption for governmentally operated programs has been                 
  removed.  Only one local government, as I mentioned, the                     
  municipality of Anchorage, actually regulates day care                       
  centers and they do not operate any programs.  The age of a                  
  child has been changed from 16 years to 18 years of age, and                 
  as far as we can tell, there will be no known impact or no                   
  programs impacted by that change.  And, probably the most                    
  important change, there was a clause in there that allowed                   
  you to operate for ninety days without a license, which                      
  undercut the whole idea of licensing.  The idea of licensing                 
  is to get in there before children are in care, reduce risk,                 
  check things out, and then have children come into care.                     
  So, we think that's an important amendment."                                 
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that she was not going to go through                   
  Sections 8, 9 and 10 because they are current to what is in                  
  statute now.  She did mention that Section 10, regarding                     
  orientation and training, was made applicable to all                         
  facilities and indicated that only parents are currently                     
  included in current statute provision.  She further                          
  indicated that it is very important that people know what is                 
  confidential and what is not.  She explained that there has                  
  been much conflicting advice from attorneys.  She said for                   
  the most part licensing records are "open" but there are a                   
  few things that should be confidential.  She explained that                  
  potential foster parents give the division very personal                     
  background information that should remain confidential.                      
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN further stated that Section 11 encourages                        
  parents to participate in monitoring child care facilities.                  
  She also mentioned that there is a lot of support across the                 
  state for there to be inspections before every license is                    
  issued.  She said Section 11 requires that there be an on-                   
  site inspection before any license is issued.                                
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said Section 12 addresses complaints and                         
  investigation enforcement.  She asserted that a complainant                  
  would get a copy of the report upon request and that                         
  retaliatory action is prohibited.  She said often an                         
  employee is afraid to report a violation of regulation.  She                 
  explained that enforcement actions which are currently in                    
  the licensing manual would be included in the legislation.                   
                                                                               
  Number 197                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY referred to the $65,000 for fiscal year (FY)                     
  1995 and $35,000 for FY 1996.  She said every new facility                   
  would have to be inspected and indicated that the financial                  
  impact is not reflected in any of the other fiscal notes.                    
  She asked if it should be reflected.                                         
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said no.  She explained that current practice is                 
  not being changed within the bill and that there would be no                 
  increased cost in inspections.  She said currently a number                  
  of licensers are experiencing an overload.  She said badly                   
  needed relief will be afforded when adult licensing is                       
  removed from the division.  Also, the consolidation of                       
  procedures will provide more relief.  She maintained that                    
  the division would not be doing more than they are now, so a                 
  fiscal note was not attached to the activity of licensing.                   
                                                                               
  Number 242                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if a questionnaire is sent to those who                    
  apply for a license.                                                         
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that a questionnaire is sent out to                    
  applicants for foster home.                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked how many pages are in the questionnaire.                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN replied that the application is one page;                        
  however, there are different attachments depending on the                    
  type of facility.  She indicated that the application with a                 
  background questionnaire for foster care is about six pages,                 
  which includes criminal history background information.                      
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if police records are requested to verify                  
  the criminal histories of applicants.                                        
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that in a child foster home licensing                  
  situation the division receives a signed application, a                      
  personal history background statement, and child protection                  
  background or a criminal history background.  All applicants                 
  must get their fingerprints rolled.  She indicated that the                  
  state pays for the criminal history background checks.                       
                                                                               
  Number 293                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if the fiscal note reflects new money or a                 
  transfer.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN responded that the fiscal note would cover the                   
  transition and would allow the division to be more creative                  
  in working with the providers and developing revised                         
  regulations.  She said approximately six regulations would                   
  be changed and a task force would be formed of those who                     
  would be affected.  She then said the division would                         
  promulgate the regulations, draft them, go through the                       
  public hearing process, and then conduct regional training.                  
                                                                               
  Number 348                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that there was teleconference                          
  testimony from Anchorage and Fairbanks.  He then referred to                 
  the statutory ability to charge fees and urged Ms. O'Brien                   
  to exercise that right to offset the fiscal note.                            
                                                                               
  Number 365                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN continued on with the sectional analysis.  She                   
  stated that Section 13 addresses the licensing of adult                      
  facilities and said if HB 377 does not pass, the division                    
  would not put the section into effect.                                       
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN further stated that the remaining sections                       
  address liability and definitions.  She then indicated that                  
  the DHSS had brought forward four amendments and that Rep.                   
  Kott also had submitted amendments.  She asked Chair Bunde                   
  if she should address those or wait until after further                      
  testimony.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said teleconference testimony would be heard and                 
  asked for testimony from Anchorage.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 392                                                                   
                                                                               
  LARE, President of the Alaska Association for the Education                  
  of Young Children (AK-EYC) testified via teleconference in                   
  support of HB 412.  She stated the AK-EYC supports HB 412,                   
  provided that the fiscal note of $100,000 for a statewide                    
  task force for implementation and training is also passed.                   
  She said that early childhood professionals welcome                          
  regulation that reduces risks to young children in out-of-                   
  home care.  She then referred to the ability to charge fees                  
  and said she suspected that many Alaskans feel that they                     
  have not paid their fair share for a number of years;                        
  however, she felt that the area of community care facilities                 
  is one of the most vulnerable populations.  She also stated                  
  that the people who care for and educate those children are                  
  paid much less than parking lot attendants or garbage                        
  collectors.  She said she was concerned that if a fee is                     
  charged it would be passed on to the parents.                                
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY referred to Lare's statement that child care                      
  workers are paid less than garbage collectors and asked her                  
  which job she thought was more difficult to perform.                         
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN asserted that caring for a young child for eight                 
  to ten hours a day was a far more difficult task.  She said                  
  it may appear to be a lot of fun, and in many ways it is,                    
  but it takes an extraordinarily high skill level to care for                 
  someone else's child.                                                        
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said, "My question then would be, why don't those                 
  people get jobs as garbage collectors instead of working in                  
  child care facilities?"                                                      
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN responded, "Well, I guess it's because that                      
  there are some among us who find that our real talents are                   
  working with the very young child and their families.                        
  That's why we went to college, that's why we have the                        
  degrees that we have, and we choose to stay in that                          
  position."                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 508                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for teleconference testimony from                          
  Fairbanks.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 509                                                                   
                                                                               
  NANCY JOHNSON, Staff Person, Division of Family and Youth                    
  Services, Department of Health and Social Services,                          
  testified via teleconference in support of HB 412.  She                      
  stated that she has worked in the area of licensing for 23                   
  years.  She said the licensing that she performs represents                  
  a valuable preventive function.  She indicated that often                    
  licensers have to perform several different kinds of                         
  licensing, especially in rural areas.  She asserted that the                 
  legislation is designed to simplify regulations and                          
  implementation.  She said the proposal also includes                         
  concepts that other states are using and indicated that                      
  Alaska belongs to many national associations for regulatory                  
  administrators and has participated in projects that have                    
  allowed key personnel to stay current with national trends                   
  and recommendations.  She further stated that the                            
  legislation would make it easier for licensing to work with                  
  community groups for recruiting and evaluating service                       
  providers.                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Johnson, if HB 412 was passed, would                   
  she be personally involved in setting up the study groups?                   
                                                                               
  MS. JOHNSON said she expected to be.                                         
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY referred to the $45,000 budget for travel and                    
  asked Ms. O'Brien if perhaps the questionnaires could be                     
  sent to local public health nurses or community health aids                  
  so they would be responsible for the procedure rather than                   
  spending $45,000 on travel.                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the travel budget is specifically                 
  for the task force.  She said if the travel budget is not                    
  supported, the participants will not be able to meet face to                 
  face.  She said she is hoping that there will be much                        
  involvement from Bush communities and Native organizations                   
  and that the only way to address those concerns is to meet                   
  face to face.                                                                
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY referred to the statement made by Ms. O'Brien                     
  regarding Section 7 which changes the age of children from                   
  16 to 18 years of age.  He said he was unable to find that                   
  provision.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that the language is actually in                       
  definitions under Section 17.  She said the definition of a                  
  child would be up to age 18 and would affect the application                 
  of the statute.                                                              
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked what page the definitions section was on.                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said page 19.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 637                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked why the definition of child was being                       
  changed from 16 to 18 years of age.                                          
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that the division licenses a number of                 
  programs that serve children ages 16 and 17 and over 17                      
  years of age in foster homes.  She said it only makes sense                  
  to include that age range because the division is regulating                 
  facilities with those age ranges anyway.                                     
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said the language is really referring to                          
  unemancipated minors.                                                        
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if developmentally disabled persons were                   
  also included.                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN replied yes.  She said, "...and since adult                      
  licensing has been in our division, we have found that                       
  children move from a child foster home then and it becomes                   
  an adult foster home.  And, I suspect if the assisted living                 
  bill passes, we will continue to collaborate with them to                    
  make sure that there's a smooth transition there."                           
                                                                               
  Number 668                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further testimony from Fairbanks.                      
                                                                               
  Number 669                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARY MATTHEWS, Family Support Coordinator, Fairbanks                         
  Resource Agency, testified via teleconference in support of                  
  HB 412.  She stated that she was pleased to see the                          
  clarification of immunity from liability for private                         
  agencies provided for in the proposal.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 684                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for testimony from JODY ENGELMAN.                          
                                                                               
  Number 685                                                                   
                                                                               
  JODY ENGELMAN, Executive Director, Juneau Youth Services,                    
  testified in Juneau in support HB 412.  She stated that the                  
  legislation would provide consistency among the various                      
  types of regulations and would ease up the job of licensers                  
  by making definitions consistent.  She also felt that the                    
  regulations that she was currently working under were very                   
  old fashioned and cannot address the current or future                       
  concerns and changing services.  She further stated that she                 
  supports the attached fiscal note, as it will enable the                     
  division to be in contact with families and their needs.                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that to address the amendments that                    
  have been put forth, HB 412 must be adopted by the committee                 
  as a working draft.                                                          
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY concurred.                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE then asked for a member to move Amendment 1 so                   
  the department could discuss it.                                             
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said so moved.                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked if the committee was addressing his                          
  amendment.                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that Amendment 1 was from the DHSS.                    
  He asked if Rep. Kott felt it would be more productive to                    
  address his amendments first.                                                
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said the decision was up to Chair Bunde.                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that DHSS Amendment 1 had been moved                   
  and asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.                             
                                                                               
  Number 743                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that there are a number of child care                  
  facilities on military bases in Anchorage and in Fairbanks                   
  and also the Kodiak Island Coast Guard facility.  She                        
  explained that in those facilities there are one or more                     
  staff persons that perform evaluations and provide training                  
  to those facilities.  Ms. O'Brien maintained that they are                   
  better staffed than the state is.  She said the division                     
  stopped regulating the facilities a number of years ago.                     
  She said the purpose of the amendment is to clarify that                     
  military bases and Coast Guard facilities are not included                   
  in regulations.  However, she said a side agreement was made                 
  with the Coast Guard relative to small communities like                      
  Sitka and Cordova that have a number of homes that provide                   
  family child care and have been previously licensed by the                   
  division.  The division will continue to do the licensing                    
  for those areas.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 774                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for discussion or questions.                               
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said he doesn't have a problem with the                           
  amendment, but felt the wording was unclear.  He said it is                  
  not the ownership of the property that the division is                       
  interested in, it's the guidelines that the federal agencies                 
  operate under that the division is trying to not                             
  "reregulate."                                                                
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN responded that the wording was given to her by                   
  Commander Gary Palmer.  She said he recommended that the                     
  language be included and she did not object.                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion or objections.                      
  Hearing none, Chair Bunde announced that DHSS Amendment 1                    
  was adopted.  He then brought DHSS Amendment 2 to the table.                 
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt DHSS Amendment 2.                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.                     
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that two mistakes were made in the                     
  drafting process and encouraged the committee to adopt the                   
  amendment to ensure that the relatives are exempted from                     
  becoming licensed.  She further indicated that Rep. Kott had                 
  an amendment that would add a subsection 8, which the                        
  division would support because she felt the division                         
  amendment does not go far enough.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 823                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions.                                             
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said he would offer a friendly amendment to DHSS                   
  Amendment 2, which was his Amendment 1.                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked to see a copy of the amendment.                            
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated that all members should have a copy and                     
  further explained that the amendment does go further in                      
  exempting relatives from being licensed.  He said if a                       
  grandmother is caring for five grandchildren, she should be                  
  exempt.  He also stated that great grand parents are                         
  included.                                                                    
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if there is a limit on how many biological                 
  grandchildren a person can care for.  She asked, if a woman                  
  is caring for four or more grandchildren, can she also care                  
  for four or more day care children?                                          
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that anyone can care for four children                 
  whether they are related or not without a license, as it is                  
  a total exemption.  She asserted that the division does not                  
  want to license homes where there are relationships and said                 
  that is why the clause was added.  She said, "Then you may                   
  care for up to eight children as a family child care home.                   
  And, those could all be related and shouldn't be licensed.                   
  But, in order for that to occur, Rep. Kott's amendment is                    
  also needed, amendment to my amendment."                                     
                                                                               
  Number 869                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if a person does not need a license to                     
  care for four children.                                                      
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said, "Any related child or for four children                    
  related or not."                                                             
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that a person could have eight children in                  
  the home without a license.                                                  
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said, "You can have four children in the house,                  
  and you don't need a license.  If there... you can have                      
  additional children.  Four of them can't be related to you,                  
  but you could have as many related to you..."                                
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "And you don't need a license.  I mean you                 
  can have eight children in the house, four of them can be                    
  your grandchildren and four you're caring for in the                         
  neighborhood.  So, you have eight children of eight                          
  children.  You do not need a license."                                       
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said, "You can take care of four children,                       
  without a license, who are not related to you and you're                     
  living there.  And then, you can take care of additional                     
  (four) related children."                                                    
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said there is no limit.                                          
  REP. B. DAVIS said there used to be a limit.                                 
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said, "If all the children are related, then                     
  there's no limit.  That's what there's no limit on."                         
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "But, if you take care of four children...                 
  you can take care of four unrelated children without a                       
  license.  And, then you have four grandchildren who come and                 
  visit, and you're taking care of them also.  That means you                  
  have eight children in the house.  I mean, you're not saying                 
  that this person has to have a license to have eight                         
  children in the house."                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that the answer is no according to                     
  Commissioner Lowe.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 906                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN stated that it is confusing and read from                        
  current regulation:  "A facility is exempt if they're                        
  regularly providing child care only to a child or children                   
  related to the resident care giver."                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE reiterated that a person can take care of a                      
  "flock" of children, but no more than four that are not                      
  related.                                                                     
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-49, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that DHSS Amendment 2 had been moved and                  
  that Rep. Kott submitted his Amendment 1 as a friendly                       
  amendment.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS asked if the motion before the committee was                   
  to adopt Rep. Kott's amendment.                                              
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said it would be DHSS Amendment 2 as amended.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that it would be DHSS Amendment 2 as                   
  amended.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if DHSS Amendment 2 had to be adopted                      
  first before making a friendly amendment.                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE replied no.  He said, "We have an amendment to                   
  the amendment before us."                                                    
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "But we haven't adopted the second                         
  amendment have we?"                                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "No, but we have an amendment to the                       
  amendment and then we go to the main amendment.  The                         
  amendment to the amendment and the main amendment will read                  
  as Rep. Kott's Amendment 1 currently reads.  It inserts                      
  unrelated caregiver, plus the additional insertion that Rep.                 
  Kott has... a facility in which the caregiver is related, is                 
  a relative of all the children.  And, it inserts after                       
  grandparents, great grandparents.  Do we have some clarity                   
  here?"                                                                       
                                                                               
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated that maybe he should have addressed his                     
  amendments first.                                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have an amendment to the amendment                     
  which is Rep. Kott's Amendment 1.  Do you understand that?"                  
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS said yes.                                                      
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT moved the amendment.                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for any objections.                                        
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS said she would like to hear from the                           
  department as to whether they supported the amendment as                     
  amended.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN said yes.                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "So, now are there objections?"                            
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS said no.                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "Hearing no objections, we've adopted the                  
  amendment to the amendment which brings us to Amendment 2                    
  which is the very same amendment that we... to the amendment                 
  that we've just adopted, so are there any objections to                      
  Amendment 2?"                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 114                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said, "I'll move Amendment 2."                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "It was previously moved and so if there                   
  are just no objections..."                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "Excuse me, because we have amendments                     
  before us that are both labeled, we have two labeled..."                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have Rep. Kott's Amendment 1, which is                 
  now Department Amendment 2.  Who's on first What's on                        
  second?  We are now moving on to Department Amendment 3.                     
  Rep. Kott, you have something to say on this?"                               
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said no.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 138                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for a member to move DHSS Amendment 3.                     
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said so moved.                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.                     
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN indicated that before the bill was brought                       
  forward to the committee, the division had two                               
  teleconferences with various organizations, including Native                 
  organizations.  She stated that the Native organizations                     
  were concerned as to how difficult it is to license in very                  
  small communities and pointed out the difficulties involved                  
  when a child must be removed from a home in an emergency                     
  situation.  She said Amendment 3 would address those                         
  concerns.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 186                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for discussion or objections.  Hearing                     
  none, Chair Bunde declared that DHSS Amendment 3 was                         
  adopted.  He brought DHSS Amendment 4 to the table.  He then                 
  said, "And, the reason I was thinking we needed to adopt a                   
  CS becomes more apparent with each amendment."  He asked for                 
  a member to move the amendment.                                              
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS said so moved.                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to address the amendment.                      
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN explained that in the teleconferences that she                   
  mentioned it was pointed out that some variances are allowed                 
  for only seven days.  She said there would be a lot of extra                 
  paper work if a license had to be issued each time a                         
  variance was given.  She asserted that the amendment is an                   
  efficiency amendment.                                                        
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said she was troubled with the proposal because                  
  "we can no longer rely on the good will of the village or a                  
  neighbor to take care of the child.  We are regulating                       
  care... the thing just smacks of regulating care of our                      
  fellow man out of existence.  Does this bother anybody                       
  else?"                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 286                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE explained that the legislation addresses                         
  situations when an official comes and removes and then                       
  places the child.  He said it does not address the neighbor                  
  or relative or grandparent who wants to care for the child.                  
  He said the legislation does not preclude voluntary action.                  
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "Yes, we are."                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated, "I don't think so.  Only when an                         
  official comes in and says that child's in jeopardy, now I'm                 
  making him a ward of the state, basically.  It's not saying                  
  that neighbors and relatives can't say, `Well, wait a                        
  minute, you need some help.  Let me give you a hand.'"                       
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS indicated that almost any law is on request.                   
  People can commit crimes, but if nobody asks that a person                   
  be arrested, there will be no arrest unless there is a                       
  request for the state to step in.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 325                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion.  He then asked for                 
  objections on DHSS Amendment 4.  Hearing none, Chair Bunde                   
  declared that DHSS Amendment 4 was so moved.  He then                        
  brought Rep. Kott's Amendment 2 to the table.  He asked Rep.                 
  Kott to speak to his amendment.                                              
                                                                               
  (Note:  Rep. Kott's testimony pertaining to Amendment 2 is                   
  inaudible.  Refer directly to Rep. Kott's Amendment 2, as                    
  submitted and on file, which refers to page 19, lines 22-23.                 
  The amendment suggest deleting the words "whose parents are                  
  not" and insert "who does not have a parent.")                               
                                                                               
  Number 350                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. O'Brien to speak to the amendment.                     
                                                                               
  MS. O'BRIEN stated that prior to the meeting she was able to                 
  look over all of Rep. Kott's amendments and said she felt                    
  comfortable with all of them.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee understood the amendment.                 
  He asked if there were any objections.  Hearing none, Chair                  
  Bunde stated that Rep. Kott's Amendment 2 was adopted.  He                   
  then brought Rep. Kott's Amendment 3 to the table.                           
                                                                               
  Number 374                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT made a motion to adopt his Amendment 3.  He said                   
  the amendment addresses page 20, line 19, and would delete                   
  the words "have been arrested" and would insert "are under                   
  arrest."                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the amendment would provide that a                     
  person's past would not be held against them.  He asked for                  
  objections.  Hearing none, Chair Bunde stated that Rep.                      
  Kott's Amendment 3 was adopted.  He indicated that it was                    
  his intent to have the committee substitute (CS) before the                  
  committee before the legislation is passed out.                              
                                                                               
  Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE                 
  ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:30 p.m.                                           

Document Name Date/Time Subjects