Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/07/1994 03:00 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        February 7, 1994                                       
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Rep. Sean Parnell                                                            
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  *HB 323:  "An Act relating to the release of certain                         
            information for the purpose of facilitating                        
            anatomical gifts."                                                 
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS                         
                                                                               
  *HB 349:  "An Act providing for the civil commitment of                      
            sexually violent predators."                                       
                                                                               
            PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS                         
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing)                                                     
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  JENS SAAKVITNE                                                               
  P.O. Box 230785                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska 99523                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 562-5433                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 323                          
                                                                               
  JAYNE ANDREEN                                                                
  P.O. Box 111200                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-4356                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 349                          
                                                                               
  CAREN ROBINSON, Lobbyist                                                     
  Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                       
  P.O. Box 33702                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99803                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 586-1107                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of  HB 349                         
                                                                               
  JAMES McLAIN, Member                                                         
  Board of Parole                                                              
  Department of Corrections                                                    
  P.O. Box 112000                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-2000                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 452-4454                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified on behalf of himself in                       
                       support of HB 349                                       
                                                                               
  LEONARD ABEL, Mental Health Program Administrator                            
  Division of Mental Health and Developmental Disabilities                     
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110620                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0620                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3370                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 349                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 323                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: RELEASE OF CERTAIN DEATH CERT. INFO                             
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY                                         
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2011    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2011    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2011    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY                                   
  02/07/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 349                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: CIVIL COMMITMENT OF SEXUAL PREDATORS                            
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PARNELL,Toohey,Olberg,Sanders                  
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/07/94      2019    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2019    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2019    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  01/13/94      2056    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  OLBERG                            
  01/26/94      2160    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  SANDERS                           
  02/07/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-09, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. and                     
  noted members present and members absent.  Chair Bunde                       
  announced the calendar.  He asked Rep. Toohey to address the                 
  committee.                                                                   
  HB 323 - RELEASE OF CERTAIN DEATH CERTIFICATE INFORMATION                    
                                                                               
  Number 074                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 323, indicated that                 
  she was offering a committee substitute (CS) for HB 323.                     
  Rep. Toohey made a motion to adopt the CS as a working                       
  draft.                                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, stated that CSHB 323 was                  
  adopted.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 116                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY stated that current statute restricts the                        
  release of information from death certificates in the Bureau                 
  of Vital Statistics.  She said that in the case of organ and                 
  tissue donation, the current statute may cause the loss of                   
  potential donors due to time delays, and she stressed that                   
  time is of the essence in harvesting the tissue.  Rep.                       
  Toohey stated that HB 323 would enable a bank, storage                       
  facility, or person who handles procurement of anatomical                    
  gifts to obtain the necessary information from the                           
  Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) within a                     
  conducive time frame for donation.                                           
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY stated that the information would be on the                      
  death certificate, or collected by the department for                        
  completing the certificate, or in information from other                     
  vital human records.                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY continued by saying that the information would                   
  consist of the name of the person who could execute the                      
  anatomical gift and the medical suitability of the potential                 
  donation.  The information would allow the person                            
  potentially procuring the donation to know if the tissue was                 
  healthy and who to contact in a timely manner to allow                       
  successful harvesting.                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY stated that DHSS and the court system support                    
  HB 323 and that it has a zero fiscal note.                                   
                                                                               
  (Note:  Rep. Toohey read from a prepared statement.  See                     
  Attachment 1.)                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 233                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked Rep. Toohey what the relationship between                   
  CSHB 323 and the expedition of the donation of tissue was.                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said the paperwork behind her proposal would                     
  allow the information to be obtained within 12 to 24 hours,                  
  citing that tissue is no longer viable after that period.                    
  She said the legislation would allow the people at Life                      
  Alaska to obtain the information before the body has                         
  decomposed past the point of viability.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 289                                                                   
                                                                               
  (Chair Bunde announced Rep. Nicholia's arrival at 3:11 p.m.)                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Saakvitne to testify.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 300                                                                   
                                                                               
  JENS SAAKVITNE, Director, Life Alaska, testified in support                  
  of HB 323.  He stated that both the DHSS and the court                       
  system felt the proposal would allow for rapid release of                    
  crucial information.  He said it would allow coroners or                     
  police officers to release information immediately after a                   
  death, noting that most information on a death certificate                   
  is obtained by them within six hours after they are notified                 
  of a death.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 344                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that, as he understood it, organ                          
  donations must take place before the body is anatomically                    
  dead.  He said that tissue donation, as another level of                     
  donation, can occur up to 24 hours after a clinical death.                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE agreed to both points.  He stated that bone                    
  and tissue transplants are the most common forms of                          
  transplants, indicating that in 1992 there were                              
  approximately 20,000 organ transplants, 40,000 corneal                       
  transplants, and over 450,000 bone and tissue transplants.                   
                                                                               
  Number 374                                                                   
                                                                               
  For clarification, REP. VEZEY said that the cornea is tissue                 
  and not an organ and that bone structure is tissue also.                     
                                                                               
  Number 386                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE stated that the organ donation program and the                 
  tissue donation program work closely together.                               
                                                                               
  Number 398                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked how long it would take to determine medical                  
  suitability for donation.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 406                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE replied by saying that the initial information                 
  needed would be the age of the recipient and cause of death                  
  (e.g., infectious disease) and from there it would be                        
  ascertained which tissues and organs would be viable                         
  contingent on the health of the decedent.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 438                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked if every decedent is examined for AIDS and                  
  other diseases.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 443                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE responded yes.  He said that very extensive                    
  testing is performed before any tissue is harvested.                         
                                                                               
  Number 462                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT expressed concern about imposing on the family of                  
  the decedent so soon after death.  He referred to an                         
  Anchorage Daily News article (see Attachment 2) and asked                    
  why the hospitals were not obtaining the information before                  
  the person dies.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 492                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE said that greater cooperation from hospitals                   
  was an issue being worked on.  He stated that with emergency                 
  room deaths, the family is so distraught it is difficult for                 
  the hospital to obtain the information, and also there are                   
  cases where the person dies on the scene and does not enter                  
  the hospital system.  Hence, the family is never given the                   
  option for donation.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 525                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked what percent of licensed drivers opt to be                  
  organ donors.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 536                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. SAAKVITNE stated that there is no official record kept                   
  by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV).  Although he had                  
  been told by DMV employees that 30-50 percent of licensees                   
  sign to be donators.  He followed by saying that not all                     
  decedents have their driver's license at the time of their                   
  death.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 553                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said that the donor card issued by the DMV could                  
  be separated from the driver and suggested a simpler method                  
  to indicate a person as a donor.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 566                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee was digressing, but                     
  suggested a sticker be affixed to the driver's licence.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the committee                  
  of their intentions for the bill.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 591                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE made a motion to pass CSHB 323 out of committee.                  
                                                                               
  Number 599                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that CSHB 323                     
  passed out of committee with individual recommendations to                   
  the committee of referral.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE announced the next bill for discussion.                          
  HB 349 - CIVIL COMMITMENT OF SEXUAL PREDATORS                                
                                                                               
  Number 620                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. SEAN PARNELL, Prime Sponsor of HB 349, stated that in                   
  the late 1980s and early 1990s in Washington state, there                    
  were heinous crimes committed by sex offenders who had been                  
  released from prison and who could be classified as mentally                 
  ill.  He said that as a result of those acts came the                        
  Washington Sexual Predator Act which allowed for sex                         
  offender registration and civil commitment of sexually                       
  violent predators.  He asserted that statutory confinement                   
  is short-term in duration and that the civil commitment                      
  procedure is typically longer.                                               
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL summarized the commitment procedure.  He stated                 
  that the general use of the act would apply to prisoners who                 
  had been incarcerated for sexual offenses and were about to                  
  be released from the Department of Corrections (DOC).  The                   
  DOC would send a notice to the Attorney General's Office                     
  informing them that a potential sexual offender was about to                 
  be released.  The Attorney General's Office would then                       
  determine if the person was a sexual predator, as defined in                 
  the Act (someone who is mentally ill and dangerous).  Rep.                   
  Parnell referred to the last page of the Act for further                     
  definition of sexual predator.  He continued to say that if                  
  the Attorney General's Office determined that they wanted to                 
  petition the court and have the individual committed to                      
  DHSS's care, they would file a petition, and by proving                      
  probable cause, the court would have a trial.  If the                        
  Attorney General proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the                   
  individual is a sexual predator, that person would then be                   
  committed to DHSS for treatment and confinement.                             
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL addressed hypothetical questions he thought                     
  might arise.  He said that currently DHSS was envisioning                    
  using contract facilities and the Alaska Psychiatric                         
  Institute (API) may be another option.  He said the                          
  Department of Law estimated that two to three people a year                  
  would be prosecuted under the proposed act.                                  
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL stated that the cost was indicated in the                       
  fiscal notes and was based on ten offenders annually.  He                    
  also said the constitutionality of the bill contained strict                 
  procedural safeguards and it was upheld by Washington                        
  Supreme Court with the exception of two provisions.  He                      
  mentioned that he had just learned of the two provisions and                 
  was going to introduce them as amendments to either the HESS                 
  Committee or the Judiciary Committee, depending on whether                   
  the bill would be passed out of committee.                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said there needed to be a requirement in the                    
  bill that would require that the predator "be held by the                    
  least restrictive means of confinement."  He said the other                  
  requirement would be to allow the individual being reviewed                  
  for civil commitment to be present at the trial.                             
                                                                               
  Number 773                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions from the committee.                          
                                                                               
  Number 774                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said he "confessed to not thoroughly reading the                  
  bill, but when talking about release, are we talking about                   
  before unconditional release or are we talking about parole                  
  or...?"                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 782                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said there are two occasions where the proposal                 
  could be put into effect.  The first being when the                          
  individual is about to be released from the correctional                     
  facility and transferred to a halfway house or                               
  unconditionally released.  He stated that the DOC would then                 
  notify the Attorney General's Office.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 794                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked how parole fit into the release schedule.                   
                                                                               
  Number 795                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said he was not sure, but one purpose of the                    
  bill was incapacitation.  He said the other way an offender                  
  could be civilly committed was after the prisoner's release                  
  it would have to be proven that a recent, overt act had been                 
  committed.  He stated that this was in regard to multiple                    
  sexual offenders.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 819                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY wondered if by confinement it was meant before                    
  unconditional release or after unconditional release.                        
                                                                               
  Number 832                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL responded by saying he would get that answer                    
  for Rep. Vezey.                                                              
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said, as he understood the bill to read, it lead                   
  him to believe that the offender was beyond correctional                     
  custody.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 846                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL stated that if all of the offender's debt to                    
  society had been paid, the Attorney General would then have                  
  to prove a recent overt act in order to civilly commit the                   
  offender.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 857                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY indicated that she wanted to see the bill pass                   
  out of committee, and asked if a person who raped once could                 
  be a sexual, violent predator.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 862                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL stated "that the practical effect of how people                 
  are prosecuted under this bill is that multiple offenses                     
  have been shown before these people have been civilly                        
  committed."                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 872                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said that the proposal made no definition                        
  between a person who rapes once and a multiple offender.                     
                                                                               
  Number 875                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said "the distinction here is mentally ill and                  
  dangerous."  Constitutionally, the focus will be to prove                    
  mental illness and the threat of danger.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 886                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked, if a person has fully served the specified                 
  time, how could he/she be civilly committed unless he/she                    
  was found to be mentally incapacitated?                                      
                                                                               
  Number 895                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said that was discussed in the Washington                       
  Supreme Court case.  He said the reason for civil commitment                 
  was for treatment of mental illness and confinement.  He                     
  stated that, constitutionally, the state has the power to                    
  treat a mentally ill person and to protect the public from                   
  violent acts by that person.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 918                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE introduced Jayne Andreen.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 923                                                                   
                                                                               
  JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic                       
  Violence and Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety,                    
  testified in support of HB 349.  She wanted to make the                      
  committee aware of the nature of sexual offenders by stating                 
  that they are different from other offenders in that they                    
  usually show a predisposition to that type of crime, and                     
  even with treatment, there was an inordinately high rate of                  
  recidivism for sexual offenders.  She stated that when                       
  mental illness is compounded with the predisposition, the                    
  result is the sexual predator that HB 349 is trying to                       
  address.  Ms. Andreen referred to the brutal rape of a Homer                 
  woman by William Lange, a repeat offender from Washington                    
  who was supposedly rehabilitated by a church organization                    
  and relocated to Homer.  She stated that most sexual                         
  offenders are good at presenting themselves as reformed.                     
  She urged strongly that the state provide the highest level                  
  of public safety against sexual offenders and encouraged the                 
  committee to support HB 349.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 977                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated that the proposed bill would have no affect                 
  on the sexual predator already released and on the streets.                  
  He asked if it would not be better to have a 50 year                         
  mandatory sentence for sexual offenders.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 991                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. ANDREEN responded by saying that the bill would                          
  specifically address the most violent, mentally ill                          
  offenders that the DOC knows will reoffend.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 999                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT felt all sex offenders should be off the streets.                  
                                                                               
  Number 004                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE introduced Caren Robinson.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 006                                                                   
                                                                               
  CAREN ROBINSON, Lobbyist, Alaska Network on Domestic                         
  Violence and Sexual Assault, testified in support of HB 349.                 
  She started her testimony by reiterating the story of Henry                  
  Bucholz, a multiple sex offender who is suspected in the                     
  death of an Anchorage woman.  Also, she referred to Timothy                  
  Seton who, two hours after his release, brutally raped a                     
  female relative.  Ms. Robinson indicated that she wanted to                  
  amend part of the proposed legislation.  She asked that the                  
  Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault also be                      
  included on page 3, line 21.  The line would read:  "In                      
  adopting the regulations under this subsection, the                          
  department shall consult with the Department of Corrections                  
  and the Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault."                    
  She stated that the members of the council included                          
  representatives from DOC, DHSS and Public Safety.  She also                  
  passed out copies of a chart that indicated the number of                    
  reported rapes committed against women.  The chart did not                   
  include sex crimes against children or men.  She stressed                    
  that the bill was designed for the worst violent sex                         
  offenders that needed to be confined.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 110                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE stated that the state was not locking the                         
  offenders up and throwing away the key, but there was                        
  treatment during confinement and a review each year to                       
  determine if the offender should reenter society or remain                   
  in confinement.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number  138                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that the sponsor had indicated that the                   
  bill was for treatment as well as for isolation.                             
                                                                               
  MS. ROBINSON felt that the amount of money DHSS was                          
  requesting for sex offender treatment was perhaps too high.                  
  She urged the sponsor and the committee to look at that                      
  point.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 153                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said, "As a medical nurse, the treatment of sex                  
  offenders is palliative, and, we are deluding ourselves if                   
  we think we can change the habits of some of these                           
  predators."  She said there was no such thing as a "normal"                  
  rapist and felt they should all be put away for a long time.                 
                                                                               
  Number 167                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. ROBINSON said that she had spent time with sex offenders                 
  who had to speak to the history of their offenses.  She                      
  found that most of the offenders had been convicted of a                     
  much less severe crime as compared to the ones they                          
  addressed in their histories.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 186                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG stated for the record "that the only reason I                    
  can support locking them up and throwing away the key is                     
  because they're still alive.  I would prefer that they not                   
  be."                                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 190                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE pointed out, for the record, that there is                       
  treatment and confinement involved in the bill, noting that                  
  treatment was not highly successful.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked James McLain to testify.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 198                                                                   
                                                                               
  JAMES McLAIN, Member, Board of Parole, testified on behalf                   
  of himself in support of HB 349.  He felt that the proposal                  
  was "incredibly" optimistic in regards to the number of                      
  people who would need to be civilly committed each year.  He                 
  said that there are less than 100 sex offenders in the state                 
  that he considered "truly" dangerous sexual predators.                       
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-09, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN stated that the vast number of prisoners are in                   
  the system as a result of committing sex crimes and it would                 
  cost one-half of the state's entire budget to confine and                    
  treat them.  He said there are sexual predators who never                    
  commit a violent act, citing an incident in Juneau where a                   
  person who was hired into a position designed to protect                     
  children abused them.  He pointed out that pedophiles are                    
  exemplary prisoners, stating that they do not create                         
  problems, they are mild people generally, and they do what                   
  they are told.  Nonetheless, when they are released they                     
  offend again.  He expressed concerns as to how a prisoner                    
  would be evaluated and how a violent sexual act would be                     
  defined.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 171                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY reiterated that Mr. McLain felt that the proposed                 
  bill needed more work and that a vehicle was needed to                       
  restrain certain sex offenders, in addition to existing                      
  laws.                                                                        
  Number 187                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN agreed.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 200                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked if the confinement outlined in the bill                     
  would be effective in preventing continued repeat offenses,                  
  citing the term "minimal confinement."                                       
                                                                               
  Number 203                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN stated that sexual predators need to be                           
  incarcerated.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 253                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said that with civil commitment there is a duty                 
  of treatment and confinement.  It was not his intent that                    
  these prisoners be put in halfway houses.  He felt their                     
  criminal histories and their psychological profiles would                    
  indicate the type of confinement needed.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 283                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN remarked that facilities such as Spring Creek and                 
  similar facilities for the mentally insane are needed for                    
  sexual predators who have been civilly committed.                            
                                                                               
  Number 306                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked Rep. Parnell if the sexual predator would                  
  be confined in a secure mental facility; e.g., API.                          
                                                                               
  Number 320                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL agreed and added that the facilities could not                  
  be DOC facilities, they would have to be DHSS facilities.                    
                                                                               
  Number 326                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked how many sexual offenders were behind bars                   
  currently.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 333                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN said he could not answer that question.  He                       
  stated that at least one-third of the prisoners reviewed                     
  have some type of sexual violence in their past.                             
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL said there are 300 to 320 prisoners in the                      
  category of sexual assault.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 364                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN stated that those figures pertained to first                      
  degree sexual assault.  He said that by the plea process,                    
  prisoners are convicted for lesser crimes and the figures                    
  did not realistically reflect the true capacity of the                       
  offenders for violent sexual crimes.                                         
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT inquired as to how many of the 320 prisoners in                    
  the category of sexual assault could be civilly committed.                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN responded that the vague definition of sexual                     
  predator would make it difficult to say how many of those                    
  prisoners could be civilly committed.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 435                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL stated that it was at the discretion of the                     
  Attorney General's Office as to how many petitions they will                 
  file for civil commitment.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 458                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT felt that all offenders have mental "difficulties"                 
  and the recidivism rate for sexual offenders was over 85%.                   
  He said the proposed bill was a good idea, but he really                     
  felt that "50 years or castration" is the best way to go.                    
                                                                               
  Number 494                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. McLAIN asserted that the bill "was better than what we                   
  have - which is nothing."                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 524                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE thanked Mr. McLain for his testimony and                         
  introduced Leonard Abel.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 527                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. LEONARD ABEL, Community Mental Health Services Program                   
  Administrator, Division of Mental Health and Developmental                   
  Disabilities, testified in support of HB 349.  As a clinical                 
  psychologist, he described what he felt to be the type of                    
  person a sexual offender is.  He said that a number of                       
  predators are not mentally ill by statutory definition,                      
  citing that the statute "requires that the person has a                      
  condition that has substantial (the following is a direct                    
  quote from statute) ..."has substantial adverse effects on                   
  an individual's ability to exercise conscious control of the                 
  individual's actions, or the ability to perceive reality, or                 
  to reason, or to understand."  He stated that the people in                  
  the group being talked about are fully capable of having                     
  conscious control over their behavior.  He felt, even if the                 
  proposal were amended, those offenders would not likely be                   
  committed under that definition of mentally ill.  Dr. Abel                   
  said that they have a "mental abnormality."  He said the                     
  abnormality lies in severely impaired social functioning.                    
  The offenders have no regard for the feelings and rights of                  
  their victims.  They have no sustained interpersonal                         
  relationships and they act out aggressively and impulsively                  
  to achieve immediate gratification of their needs.  They                     
  experience no remorse.                                                       
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL felt that the proposed legislation was "going in                    
  the right direction," but it needed more work in regards to                  
  the length of time needed to rehabilitate sex offenders.  He                 
  expressed concerns from the department over cost.  He felt                   
  there were varying numbers as to how many offenders fit the                  
  definition, citing that a clinician from DOC estimated 40-50                 
  persons per year.  He also stated that API would not be a                    
  suitable location to fulfill the "least restrictive"                         
  requirement because API was going to become a strictly                       
  tertiary care treatment facility.  He said that the fiscal                   
  note was based on "staff secure" residential facilities.  He                 
  said that type of confinement is not like a halfway house.                   
                                                                               
  Number 730                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY asked how many years it takes for rehabilitation.                 
                                                                               
  Number 734                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL said some gains could be made with a few clients                    
  within two or three years.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 745                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said that would be about two of every 20 clients                  
  that would make headway within approximately two years.                      
                                                                               
  Number 747                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL stated that the expertise needed is not easy to                     
  come across and it would take highly specialized treatment.                  
                                                                               
  Number 750                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY inquired about the other 90% of the offenders                     
  that do not make any gains within the two year time period.                  
                                                                               
  Number 751                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL said they would continue to reside there and                        
  receive treatment.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 756                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY inquired if that would be for the rest of their                   
  natural life, if need be.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 758                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL indicated that the way the proposal is written, it                  
  would be a possibility.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 763                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if Harbor View would be suitable for                       
  confinement of those civilly committed.  She also felt that                  
  most of the offenders would be "lifetime commitments."                       
                                                                               
  Number 777                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL said that if the primary focus was security and                     
  protection of the public, Harbor View would be suitable, but                 
  it may not be constitutionally suitable under the "least                     
  restrictive" guidelines.                                                     
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG pointed out that "under my system, recidivism is                 
  zero."                                                                       
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT questioned whether review after one year should be                 
  changed to two or three years.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 814                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. ABEL said that most of the offenders would not likely                    
  make any significant changes in one year.  He said that the                  
  one year review offered a civil rights guarantee.                            
                                                                               
  Number 828                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked Rep. Parnell                   
  how he wanted to handle his amendments at that point.                        
                                                                               
  Number 843                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL addressed an earlier question from Rep. Vezey                   
  regarding parole.  As he understood HB 349 to read, "the                     
  notice is given by the Department of Corrections three                       
  months before the anticipated release from total                             
  confinement."  He felt the notice would be given before the                  
  offender is paroled.  He continued on to say if the offender                 
  had been paroled and the DOC realized, after the fact, that                  
  they had released a sexual predator, it would be possible                    
  for the Attorney General's Office to prove a recent overt                    
  act (after being released) and have the parolee civilly                      
  committed.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 874                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked if the initial sentencing process needed to                 
  be revisited and perhaps changed.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 905                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL suggested it was a good addition to amend page                  
  3, line 21, to include the Council on Domestic Violence and                  
  Sexual Assault.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 917                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that Rep. Toohey moved to adopt the                       
  amendment.  Hearing no objection, the amendment was adopted.                 
                                                                               
  Number 918                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PARNELL mentioned that the other two amendments that                    
  dealt with "least restrictive" security means and the                        
  exparte proceeding on the "show cause" issue had just                        
  recently come to his attention and he felt they were                         
  constitutional issues that would be better addressed at the                  
  Judiciary Committee level.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 931                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to move the bill out of                          
  committee with individual recommendations.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 934                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated there was an objection and asked for a                    
  roll call vote.                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Toohey         Yea                                                      
  Rep. Bunde          Yea                                                      
  Rep. G. Davis       Yea                                                      
  Rep. Vezey          Nay                                                      
  Rep. Kott           Nay                                                      
  Rep. Olberg         Yea                                                      
  Rep. B. Davis       Yea                                                      
  Rep. Nicholia       Yea                                                      
  Rep. Brice          Yea                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that the bill had passed out of committee                 
  and on to Judiciary.                                                         
                                                                               
  Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE                 
  ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:22 p.m.#                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects