Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/29/1993 03:00 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 29, 1993                                        
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                      
  Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                           
  Representative Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                        
  Representative Al Vezey                                                      
  Representative Harley Olberg                                                 
  Representative Bettye Davis                                                  
  Representative Irene Nicholia                                                
  Representative Tom Brice                                                     
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  Confirmation Hearing - Board of Dental Examiners                             
            APPOINTEES PASSED ON TO THE HOUSE WITH NO                          
  HB 82:    "An Act relating to school construction grants and                 
            major maintenance grants to school districts;                      
            providing for school district participation in the                 
            cost of school construction and major maintenance;                 
            creating a major maintenance grant fund; and                       
            providing for an effective date."                                  
  HB 83:    "An Act making appropriations for construction and                 
            major maintenance of schools; and providing for an                 
            effective date."                                                   
            MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH A DO PASS                              
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  DR. BURTON MILLER, Appointee                                                 
  Board of Dental Examiners                                                    
  (Address & Phone not provided by Comm. Secy.)                                
  Position Statement: Provided information and answered                        
                      questions related to his appointment                     
  GARY BADER, Director                                                         
  Division of Administrative Services                                          
  Department of Education                                                      
  801 West 10th Street                                                         
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-2875                                                       
  Position statement:  Answered questions on HB 83                             
  JOE RYAN, Legislative Aide                                                   
    to Representative Al Vezey                                                 
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 102                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3719                                                       
  Position statement:  Answered questions on HB 83                             
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 82                                                                 
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 82(FIN)                                                   
  SPONSOR(S):   RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to school construction grants and                    
  major maintenance grants to school districts; providing for                  
  school district participation in the cost of school                          
  construction and major maintenance; creating a major                         
  maintenance grant fund; creating an education facilities                     
  maintenance and construction fund and providing for an                       
  effective date."                                                             
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/22/93       131    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       132    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  01/22/93       132    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (DOE) 1/22/93                      
  01/22/93       132    (H)   -2 ZERO FNS (DOT, REV)  1/22/93                  
  01/22/93       132    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/16/93              (H)   HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/23/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  BILL:  HB 83                                                                 
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                               
  TITLE: "An Act making appropriations for construction and                    
  major maintenance of schools; and providing for an effective                 
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/22/93       134    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       134    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  01/22/93       134    (H)   -REVENUE FN (REV)  1/22/93                       
  01/22/93       134    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (DOT)                         
  01/22/93       134    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/09/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/16/93              (H)   HES AT 03:30 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/23/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/29/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-50, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN CON BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:08 p.m.,                 
  noted members present, and announced the calendar.                           
  Number 053                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE invited Dr. Burton Miller to offer any opening                   
  statement he might have concerning his appointment.                          
  testified via teleconference.  He has been an active member                  
  of the dental board since May, 1992.                                         
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Dr. Miller if he understood the time                       
  commitments of board service and if he was comfortable with                  
  those commitments.                                                           
  Number 066                                                                   
  DR. MILLER said he had attended all board meetings since his                 
  appointment, and had volunteered for other commitments, some                 
  involving travel outside Alaska.                                             
  CHAIR BUNDE invited committee members to question the                        
  Number 076                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY noted Dr. Miller's resume and                  
  the training it cited, and asked whether he was required to                  
  take recurrent training.  (A copy of Dr. Miller's resume may                 
  be found in the House Health, Education and Social Services                  
  Committee Room, Capitol Room 106, and after the adjournment                  
  of the second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature,                  
  in the Legislative Reference Library.)                                       
  DR. MILLER answered that he had to take 14 hours of                          
  continuing education each year, or 28 hours each two years,                  
  dealing with hands-on dentistry, a recent requirement new in                 
  the last six years.                                                          
  Number 094                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS asked about professional                           
  presentations cited on Dr. Miller's curriculum vitae,                        
  notably an Alaska Pacific University presentation on Mercury                 
  Toxicity from Dental Amalgams in 1987, a South Central                       
  District Dental Society presentation on the Potential Health                 
  Hazards of Dental Amalgam in 1988, and a guest lecture to                    
  numerous groups in Illinois and Alaska on Bio-compatibility                  
  of Dental Materials.  Representative G. Davis asked about                    
  DR. MILLER answered that bio-compatibility was the chemical                  
  component of dentistry, or how the restorative materials                     
  used for dental implants react chemically with the                           
  (unintelligible) environment - whether the materials are                     
  bio-compatible.  He said that the manufacturers of some                      
  materials used in his office, such as composites, have                       
  undergone "live cell" tests, in which the finished composite                 
  product is introduced into a petri dish along with live                      
  cells.  If the material kills off the cells, it is                           
  considered toxic, he said.  If the cells grow, the material                  
  is considered cancerous, and if the cells are not affected,                  
  the material is considered bio-compatible, he said.                          
  Number 126                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE invited other questions or comments.  He then                    
  mentioned Dr. Miller's comments indicating a desire to help                  
  the governor's efforts to promote alternative medicine, and                  
  Dr. Miller's goal of creating a balance between orthodox and                 
  bio-compatible dentistry.  Chair Bunde asked Dr. Miller if                   
  he viewed his position on the board as one of an adversary                   
  to orthodox dentistry.                                                       
  DR. MILLER answered, "No, absolutely not."  He said the two                  
  camps had lots to learn from each other.  At the last board                  
  meeting, he said, the board had asked for an opinion as to                   
  whether dental amalgams were safe devices.  He said he                       
  explained that Congress and the President in 1976, gave the                  
  U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the sole authority                  
  to judge amalgams safe or unsafe, and that as yet the FDA                    
  had not accepted amalgams as a totally safe and effective                    
  dental material.  He said that if the state board approved                   
  amalgams, it would be overriding the FDA authority, and he                   
  suggested passing over the issue, which is what happened.                    
  Number 152                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE understood that even pure oxygen could be                        
  harmful in excessive amounts, and that amalgam was toxic.                    
  He asked if there were cases in which amalgams could be                      
  used, and people could accept such fillings, without adverse                 
  DR. MILLER answered that yes, there were such cases, but                     
  dentistry did not, at that time, have a definitive test to                   
  make such a determination.  He had learned from his sources                  
  that there would be a study published on the effects of                      
  amalgams on humans.  He said the studies had been done by                    
  three prestigious U.S. universities, and more information                    
  was becoming available as to the potential toxicity problems                 
  of dental amalgams.  He said several research studies on                     
  sheep and monkeys have been published in prestigious                         
  refereed journals.                                                           
  DR. MILLER stated the studies showed identical responses;                    
  that mercury leaks out of the teeth, and that mercury                        
  concentrates in other organs, including brain tissue and                     
  kidneys.  He alleged the sheep study showed a 50 percent                     
  reduction in kidney function, and the study on monkeys                       
  showed similar effects.  He assumed that similar studies                     
  were being performed on human tissue, though he was not sure                 
  of the exact procedure.  He said there was a growing body of                 
  documented research showing the potential toxic effects of                   
  mercury dental amalgams.                                                     
  DR. MILLER said while some people could use such materials                   
  without problems, some people can also smoke cigarettes                      
  without getting cancer.                                                      
  Number 186                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Dr. Miller whether he used such fillings.                  
  DR. MILLER replied in the negative.                                          
  CHAIR BUNDE asked whether, as a member of the dental board,                  
  he could fairly and impartially judge a dentist who used                     
  such materials.                                                              
  DR. MILLER said absolutely, and that he had just judged more                 
  than 100 candidates at a dentistry board test in Loma Linda,                 
  California.  He said one of the projects was a dental                        
  amalgam along with a gold inlay, and he believed he judged                   
  them very fairly.                                                            
  Number 198                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS referred to the bio-compatibility                    
  test, and asked whether Dr. Miller had performed such tests.                 
  DR. MILLER answered that he had not, but others had, and the                 
  test showed the amalgam had killed off live cells                            
  surrounding it.  He described the amalgam as a mixture of                    
  approximately 52 percent elemental mercury, with the balance                 
  of the alloy being comprised of silver, zinc, tin and                        
  copper, which also had toxic effects on humans.  Years ago,                  
  he said, it was believed that the amalgam would be stable                    
  when it hardened.  However, in 1979, someone used a mercury                  
  vapor detector on amalgams, and was shocked to discover how                  
  much mercury was leaking off the amalgams, he said.                          
  DR. MILLER said this gave rise to what dentists call the                     
  "Third Amalgam War," when doubts began to arise as to the                    
  material's safety.                                                           
  Number 221                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked if he knew whether the cells                   
  that died off in the bio-compatibility test were human,                      
  sheep or monkey cells.                                                       
  DR. MILLER replied in the negative.                                          
  CHAIR BUNDE thanked Dr. Miller for his time.                                 
  DR. MILLER asked Chair Bunde how long the confirmation                       
  process was likely to take, noting that he had much material                 
  from the board and wondered whether it would be worth his                    
  while to begin delving into it.                                              
  Number 231                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE answered that the committee meeting was an                       
  opportunity to take testimony on the appointment, and the                    
  committee would pass Dr. Miller's name, along with those of                  
  other appointees, to the House floor, where individual votes                 
  would be taken on each appointee.                                            
  DR. MILLER asked how long that process would take.                           
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the scheduling was done at the                         
  pleasure of the Speaker of the House, who had not discussed                  
  the issue with him.                                                          
  DR. MILLER thanked Chair Bunde, and signed off from the                      
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the committee would also consider                     
  Kevin L. Gottlieb, DDS, of Anchorage; Robert W. Robinson II,                 
  DMD, of Wasilla; Carolyn J. Michels, of Nome; and, Gloria C.                 
  Gresser, of Barrow as appointees to the Board of Dental                      
  Examiners.  He passed out the letters of transmittal and                     
  asked committee members to sign them, noting that the                        
  signatures did not give any indication as to how the members                 
  would vote on the actual confirmations on the House floor.                   
  Number 255                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS asked why the letters indicated that                 
  the appointees had already been appointed.                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE answered that the appointees still needed to be                  
  confirmed.  He then announced his intent to hear HB 82 as                    
  soon as the teleconference link was established with other                   
  sites.  He announced further that the committee would be                     
  hearing HB 82 for the third time, and it was his intention                   
  to move both HB 82 and HB 83 from committee.  He noted that                  
  the meeting was being teleconferenced to Anchorage,                          
  Soldotna, Valdez, Tok, Kuspuk, Tanana, Galena and                            
  Glennallen.  He opened public testimony, and noted that the                  
  committee had adopted a work draft on March 23, 1993.                        
  HB 82:  SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION & MAINTENANCE GRANTS                             
  Number 291                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY did not have a copy of the working                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE also needed a copy of the work                      
  Number 297                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE OFFERED an AMENDMENT to the work draft                           
  concerning school districts' participating share, on page 2,                 
  line 22.  His amendment recognized both the value of                         
  participation and the financial realities of some school                     
  districts.  He proposed dropping the district participating                  
  share on line 22 to 5% from 20%.  He asked for objections or                 
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS had no problem with the amendment,                   
  and favored a top cap of from 30% to 40% at the most.  He                    
  sought amendments to the language concerning all of the                      
  district participating shares, and said he would be glad to                  
  take the amendments one at a time.                                           
  Number 323                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG preferred that the district                     
  participating share for the districts identified on line 22                  
  to be 0%.                                                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE understood that preference, and called for                       
  further discussion on the amendment.                                         
  Number 333                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS desired to add an amendment.                         
  CHAIR BUNDE preferred to take care of the amendments one at                  
  a time, and, hearing no objections, DECLARED HIS AMENDMENT                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS MOVED an AMENDMENT to page 2, line                   
  23 to change the percentage to 25% from 30%; line 24 to                      
  change the percentage to 30% from 40%; and line 25 to change                 
  the percentage to 35% from 50%.                                              
  Number 341                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE OBJECTED to the motion for the purpose of                        
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS said there was an effort to make                     
  school districts responsible for their desires, but also a                   
  desire to make the funding as equitable as possible.  He                     
  said the 50% matching requirement was too high, and if the                   
  contribution levels were lowered for the poorer districts,                   
  then similar adjustments should be made for the richer                       
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commented that the committee was                        
  debating an issue not germane to the school funding issue,                   
  as up to 75% of the funds for school construction in the                     
  state did not come from the state, but from local or federal                 
  Number 366                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked if the Department of Education                    
  (DOE) could tell the committee what impact the amendments                    
  just passed would have on the list of school projects                        
  outlined in HB 83.                                                           
  CHAIR BUNDE said it would be premature, as he intended to                    
  rewrite HB 83 thoroughly.                                                    
  Number 374                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked whether HB 83 would not be driven                 
  by HB 82.                                                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE said he might have misunderstood Representative                  
  Brice's question, as the two bills were certainly related.                   
  Number 379                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he had been provided HB 83, a list                 
  of projects and an appropriations bill with $150 million                     
  going to those projects.  He asked if the changes to HB 82                   
  would change the amount of money available for the projects                  
  in HB 83.                                                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE said that, while he hesitated to speak for the                   
  DOE, the percentages under consideration by the DOE were not                 
  the same as those presented by the DOE.  He said the changes                 
  were revenue-positive.                                                       
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said the committee might at least have                 
  to make HB 83 not subject to the changes in HB 82, because                   
  he was sure that HB 83 represented money available before                    
  any changes, and that if the committee changed the funding                   
  figures in HB 82 it would throw off the numbers in the                       
  priority list.                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that the committee would have to                   
  change the effective date on HB 82.  He said the committee                   
  should keep in mind that it could establish various                          
  effective dates for different parts of the bill.                             
  REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA asked a representative from                    
  the DOE to explain the impacts of the changes in the                         
  district participating share provisions of HB 82 on Rural                    
  Education Attendance Areas (REAAs).                                          
  Number 412                                                                   
  DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION said, "It is very difficult to say,                  
  the first question about overall, would it require more                      
  state money to fund the same list, or less, (I) simply can't                 
  say without actually running the numbers.  The table is                      
  different, the match requirements are different.  As you                     
  recall, HB 83 as it's before you without the committee                       
  substitute, has a sliding scale on the first year.  The                      
  matching requirements weren't as aggressive as they were                     
  further out.  So it's just impossible to say."                               
  MR. BADER continued, "In terms of the REAAs, clearly we have                 
  a zero match the first year.  This committee substitute                      
  would have a 5% match.  And so in terms of the dollar amount                 
  of match that would have to be raised, I couldn't say, but                   
  we can certainly get a feel for it."                                         
  Number 424                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG said that the work draft of CSHB 82                    
  (HES) eliminated paragraph C, relating to the phase-in of                    
  the REAA district participation share.  He said it was                       
  obvious that such a provision could not take effect in 90                    
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY raised a point of order.  He asked if                   
  it was possible to limit discussion to the amendment before                  
  the committee, instead of veering back to HB 82, as amended.                 
  Number 437                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the amendment before the committee                    
  was whether to make the changes in district participation                    
  shares that Representative G. Davis had suggested, which                     
  reduced the percentages from 30% to 25%, 40% to 30%, and 50%                 
  to 35% for school districts falling into varying categories                  
  of property value.  He said the committee would consider the                 
  changes one at a time.  He then asked if there were                          
  objections to the first reduction from 30% to 25% on line                    
  23.  He said, "Forgive me, Anchorage, but they have told me                  
  they would support 30%, and so I would speak against your                    
  reduction to 25%."  He then asked for other opinions.                        
  Number 446                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BETTYE DAVIS asked Representative G. Davis to                 
  repeat his amendment.                                                        
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS repeated his amendment for                           
  Representative B. Davis' clarification.                                      
  Number 452                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS asked whether the committee had                      
  already passed an amendment to line 22.                                      
  CHAIR BUNDE replied in the affirmative.                                      
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS wanted to make an amendment.                         
  CHAIR BUNDE said there was a previous amendment on the                       
  floor.  He called for a roll call vote on that amendment.                    
  Those voting YEA were Representatives B. Davis, Nicholia,                    
  Brice, and G. Davis.   Those voting NO were Representatives                  
  Vezey, Olberg, Toohey, and Bunde.  The AMENDMENT FAILED.                     
  Number 474                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS MOVED an AMENDMENT that would                        
  eliminate the requirement that REAAs make a matching                         
  contribution for state school construction funding.  She did                 
  not believe that REAAs could afford to pay 5% of the cost of                 
  such projects.                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that even the governor had wanted REAAs to                 
  eventually pay a 3.8% match.                                                 
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS wanted to put CSHB 82 (HES) back to                  
  its original state, in which the match would start at 1.5%,                  
  then rise to 3.8% over several years.                                        
  Number 476                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG noted that the matching requirement                    
  for REAAs in the original version of HB 82 called for them                   
  to pay a 1% match in the school year starting in 1994, which                 
  would increase by 1.4% in each of the next two years, to a                   
  total of 3.8%.                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS said that her amendment would have                   
  the effect of requiring matching contributions of 5% from                    
  districts with property valued at from $1 to $100,000 per                    
  full value per ADM (Average Daily Membership).                               
  Number 485                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY OBJECTED.                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted the objection and called for further                       
  Number 487                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked Representative B. Davis to                        
  restate her motion.                                                          
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS repeated her motion, to have the 5%                  
  matching requirement apply to those school districts with                    
  property value per ADM of from $1 to $100,000.  That would                   
  eliminate from that bracket the 21 REAAs, which have no                      
  property value.                                                              
  CHAIR BUNDE said that at this point the REAAs would be                       
  receiving 100% state funding for school construction.                        
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS said the committee could later                       
  address that issue.                                                          
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the governor's bill required the                      
  REAAs eventually to pay 3.8% as matching grants.  If the                     
  districts could pay 3.8%, he said, they could pay 5%.                        
  REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA said that HB 82 had a clause                         
  exempting a REAA from having to make any matching                            
  contribution for school construction, if it could prove that                 
  it either could not do so, or that providing such a share                    
  would jeopardize its federal education funding.  That clause                 
  had been eliminated from CSHB 82 (HES), she said, and                        
  recommended it be returned.                                                  
  Number 504                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY was reluctant not to require any local                 
  contribution, whether it was labor, material or equipment.                   
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS said her amendment did not deal with                 
  REAAs, as it was limited to districts with more than $1 per                  
  full value ADM in property value.  She said the REAA issue                   
  could be dealt with later, but she did not want to require a                 
  5% match from REAAs.                                                         
  Number 509                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE called for further discussion, and hearing none,                 
  called for a roll call vote on Representative B. Davis'                      
  amendment.  Those voting YEA were Representatives Nicholia,                  
  Brice, B. Davis, and Olberg.  Those voting NO were                           
  Representatives Bunde, G. Davis, Vezey, and Toohey.  The                     
  measure FAILED.  He then asked for further discussion.                       
  Number 524                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked a clarifying question on the                      
  percentage of local contribution shares required under                       
  HB 82, which were outlined in the working draft.                             
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the percentages existed as they were                   
  in the working draft.  He called for further discussion on                   
  HB 82 as a whole.                                                            
  Number 527                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said his subcommittee on HB 82 had met                  
  three times, and had not gotten past section 3.  He noted                    
  that the major impact of the bill was in its later sections,                 
  establishing the DOE as the body which would appropriate                     
  money for the school construction program outlined in the                    
  bill.  He said that while the subcommittee debated the draft                 
  formula, the process of allocating grants was more                           
  important.  He expressed concern about the legislature                       
  abrogating its appropriation authority.  He recommended                      
  DELETING sections 4 through section 11.  He then, for                        
  discussion purposes, MOVED DELETION of sections 4 through                    
  section 12.                                                                  
  Number 548                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS OBJECTED.                                            
  Number 550                                                                   
  MR. BADER said that the sections mentioned were already in                   
  statute, and the sections in CSHB 82 (HES) merely redefined                  
  construction projects to be capital improvement projects,                    
  and inserted language regarding use of the maintenance                       
  account, instead of the capital improvement account.  He                     
  said the DOE valued the distinction between health-life-                     
  safety and unhoused student needs, and maintenance needs.                    
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE commented that the rest of the sections                 
  had little substance, and merely brought the statutes into                   
  line with the actions in the earlier sections of CSHB 82                     
  Number 564                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG suggested that school districts                        
  precluded from future construction by paragraph 3 would not                  
  care about the subsequent sections.  He said the committee                   
  had to give the DOE some leeway sooner or later.  He allowed                 
  that he might not be understanding Representative Vezey's                    
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the sections he proposed deleting                  
  contained mostly housekeeping details, but also contained                    
  some key phrases that emphasized that CSHB 82 (HES) was                      
  based on the premise that a fund was established to be                       
  appropriated without further legislative action,                             
  specifically in section 7 and section 8.  His concern was                    
  aggravated in that it appeared as though the legislature                     
  would have to use the constitutional budget reserve funds as                 
  a funding source, requiring a three-fourths vote of the full                 
  Number 586                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE CALLED THE QUESTION.                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE noted the call, and repeated Representative                      
  Vezey's motion to delete section 4 through section 12.  He                   
  called for a roll call vote.  Representative Vezey voted                     
  YEA.  Those voting NO were Representatives G. Davis, Olberg,                 
  B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey, and Bunde.  The MOTION                    
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE MOVED an AMENDMENT to section 3, line                   
  7, adding a new section D that would consist of language                     
  taken from the original HB 82, page 3, line 7, starting with                 
  "an REAA" and continuing through line 11.  He said the                       
  amendment would return to the working draft the provision                    
  that REAAs would be exempted, in whole or in part, from the                  
  local contribution requirement if the commissioner of the                    
  DOE determined that the REAA could not afford the                            
  contribution, or if the contribution would jeopardize the                    
  REAA's federal funding.                                                      
  TAPE 93-50, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 005                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE noted OBJECTION to the motion, and invited                       
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said that his amendment would add a                     
  section C to section 3 which would allow various other                       
  funding sources, plus sweat equity or equipment, to be used                  
  as sources of matching funding.  He said that his amendment                  
  would make it more equitable to require matching                             
  contribution from areas with lower property values.                          
  Number 030                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY asked whether the committee was                        
  assuming that REAAs could meet the match requirement with                    
  materials, equipment or labor.                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE replied in the affirmative.  He added                   
  that if REAAs could not offer any of those as matching                       
  contributions, then they should be able to write for a state                 
  Number 045                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "May I further continue?  If                     
  they don't have that to match, they don't have children in                   
  school.  There is no way ... "                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE interrupted.  He disagreed, saying he                   
  had been in many villages on Alaska's west coast that could                  
  not afford to meet such matches.                                             
  Number 052                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA said that rural school districts are                 
  the poorest of the poor, and that people in some villages                    
  are unemployed and barely survive.  She said it would be as                  
  hard to find people to volunteer their time and work in the                  
  Bush as it would be in Anchorage.  She SUPPORTED the                         
  amendment, as it addressed the actual bleakness of the                       
  situation in villages, where education was nonetheless                       
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY echoed Representative Toohey's                          
  statement.  He said that the cost of labor was 50% of the                    
  cost of construction, and land, about 5%.  He could not                      
  conceive of an area that could not come up with 5% of the                    
  cost of school construction.  He said that urban areas were                  
  not being treated fairly under HB 82.                                        
  Number 100                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the inconceivable did occur, and                   
  if a school district was so broke it could not provide                       
  labor, resources or other contributions, then the amendment                  
  would never be put into effect.                                              
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked to see a draft contract for a                    
  deal in which a district would provide volunteer labor.  He                  
  said that land had value, and near Delta Junction 30 acres                   
  were for sale at $22,000.  He said every community wanted to                 
  contribute something to its schools, and that was the reason                 
  he was drafting a school tax bill for the unorganized                        
  borough.  He said that the local labor match would be                        
  difficult to effect, unless it were for site preparation.                    
  Number 135                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE strongly FAVORED a local match as a way to build                 
  pride in ownership.  He SUPPORTED Representative Brice's                     
  amendment, as he understood the need for safety valves or                    
  mechanisms in exceptional circumstances.  He called for a                    
  roll call vote.  Those voting YEA were Representatives                       
  Brice, Toohey, Bunde, G. Davis, Olberg, B. Davis, and                        
  Nicholia.  Representative Vezey voted NO.  The MOTION                        
  Number 150                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE called for further discussion and, hearing none,                 
  said he would entertain a motion.                                            
  Number 153                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY MOVED PASSAGE of HB 82 with individual                 
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for objections and, hearing none, the                      
  MOTION CARRIED.                                                              
  The committee next addressed HB 83.                                          
  HB 83:  APPROP: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND                               
  Number 170                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE opened public testimony on HB 83.                                
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY distributed copies of a blank CS                        
  version of HB 83.                                                            
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if the CS version of HB 83 was                   
  different from the version under consideration earlier.                      
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Representative Vezey to address the                        
  Number 179                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said that the CS contained changes in                   
  the funding source.  The original funding source for HB 83                   
  was to have been a school construction fund, the name of                     
  which he could not recall.  The CS to HB 83 discussed in the                 
  HESS subcommittee which he chaired considered the General                    
  Fund as a source of funding.  The blank CS currently before                  
  the committee assumed the constitutional budget reserve as                   
  its source of funding, he said.                                              
  REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA asked Representative Vezey if he                     
  followed the governor's priority in writing his work draft.                  
  She observed that some of the construction proposals in the                  
  work draft were low on the governor's list.                                  
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied in the negative.                                
  REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA repeated her question.                               
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY repeated his answer.                                    
  Number 206                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE said the governor's priority list did not come                   
  close to allocating funds in relation to the percentage of                   
  students in a district or area.  He said that the blank CS                   
  was an attempt to allocate the funds more equitably; the                     
  more students in a district, the more projects it received.                  
  The governor's construction projects' proposal invested 9%                   
  in Anchorage, 8% in Fairbanks, 3% in Mat-Su, and 0.3% in                     
  Kenai, but 56% in REAAs, he said.  In the CS, the funding                    
  was distributed in approximate proportion to the                             
  distribution of the student population in the state, he                      
  CHAIR BUNDE pointed out that the title called for                            
  appropriation from the constitutional budget reserve, and                    
  called that a major step forward which he believed deserved                  
  to be noted.                                                                 
  Number 231                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked for comment from the DOE, and                     
  asked a departmental representative if he had seen the list                  
  MR. BADER answered that the list contained in the blank CS                   
  was presented in the subcommittee two weeks before.  He said                 
  he could not comment, and added that when the DOE assembled                  
  the list it had not tried to balance it according to                         
  percentages of money spent by each school district.                          
  Number 245                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA said the governor had written his                    
  list based on how long schools had been waiting for funding,                 
  and on whether the funding addressed life-threatening                        
  MR. BADER said the governor's list was built according to an                 
  internal DOE ranking of all projects statewide, and that                     
  there was a decision to spend approximately $40 million on                   
  maintenance, with the balance coming from the school                         
  construction account.                                                        
  Number 261                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE had a letter from the governor seeking a                         
  technical adjustment to the funding list.  He said the                       
  Ketchikan Gateway Borough High School was already under                      
  construction, and that the funding amount in HB 83 should be                 
  $9,501,600.  He said there had been a funding error, which                   
  the governor's suggested funding level would correct.                        
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE MOVED an AMENDMENT to increase the                      
  Ketchikan High School line to the level requested by the                     
  Number 279                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY OBJECTED.  He did not believe it was                    
  possible to simply add money to that project without cutting                 
  funding elsewhere in the bill.  He opposed any motion to add                 
  an increment without taking a corresponding decrement.                       
  CHAIR BUNDE said the committee would discuss the decrement                   
  after addressing the increment.                                              
  Number 290                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS said that HB 83 drew money from the                  
  constitutional budget reserve.  He said any additions to the                 
  bill could simply be added to the bill, and the additional                   
  money withdrawn from that reserve fund.                                      
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked Representative Brice to amend                    
  his motion to increase the total appropriation by the same                   
  amount as it increased money for the Ketchikan High School,                  
  which he said was $2,850,500, as stated in the governor's                    
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY did not believe the motion was                          
  necessary, as the $8,240,000 in the blank CS was a state                     
  grant, and if there was a 20% local match, the project would                 
  have enough money to be completed.                                           
  Number 305                                                                   
  MR. BADER said the project had been going on for several                     
  years.  The DOE believed Ketchikan had already met its                       
  obligation for matching funds, he said, which was the reason                 
  the appropriation amount was understated.  He said the                       
  school project was in its final phase, and short-funding it                  
  by about $1.3 million would force the addition of another                    
  phase to the project, and add expenses.                                      
  There followed much general discussion among committee                       
  members relating to the total amount of money necessary to                   
  fund the various phases of the high school building project,                 
  how much money had already been appropriated for it, and how                 
  much of the Ketchikan school district's obligation for local                 
  matching funds had already been provided.                                    
  Number 355                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE CALLED THE QUESTION.                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE acknowledged the call for the question of                        
  whether the committee should amend the working draft of                      
  HB 83 to increase the appropriation to the Ketchikan Gateway                 
  Borough for the final construction phase of its high school                  
  building project to $9,501,600.  He called for a roll call                   
  vote on the motion.  Those voting YEA were Representatives                   
  G. Davis, Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey, and                     
  Bunde.  Those voting NO were Representatives Vezey, and                      
  Kott.  The MOTION PASSED.                                                    
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the committee then faced the question                  
  of whether to increase the total appropriation by                            
  $1,261,666, or whether there should be a decrement in that                   
  amount to the total appropriation amount.                                    
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE believed the motion was to increase the                 
  total appropriation.                                                         
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the committee had already increased                    
  the Ketchikan portion but had not decided if there would be                  
  a decrement.  He asked if Representative Brice was making a                  
  motion to increase the total appropriation by the $1,261,666                 
  making the total appropriation $109,441,663.                                 
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE CALLED THE QUESTION.                                    
  Number 450                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if the committee was working                     
  from HB 83 or from the CS for the bill.  He was notified                     
  that the committee was working from the CS version.  He then                 
  asked if the committee was amending the amount in section 1                  
  as well as the amount of the appropriation.                                  
  CHAIR BUNDE said the committee had amended line 12 to read                   
  Further discussion followed.                                                 
  Number 465                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE announced that he had to leave for                      
  another engagement, and asked the chair's intention.                         
  CHAIR BUNDE intended to have a vote on the bill soon.                        
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE asked for 15 to 20 minutes.                             
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that there was an amendment on the table                   
  to increase the total amount of the appropriation to                         
  $109,446,663.  He called for further discussion.                             
  Number 470                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY OPPOSED the AMENDMENT because the                       
  committee would get unlimited requests for additional                        
  projects, and $150 million in FY 94 school spending had been                 
  agreed upon.  Without some discipline, he said, the requests                 
  for more funding for school construction would be unlimited.                 
  REPRESENTATIVE G. DAVIS could not disagree with a little                     
  discipline, and stated there had been some dispute about the                 
  numbers.  He did not want to see the state's share of the                    
  Ketchikan High School project reduced, as his district had                   
  experienced the shock of the state reducing its share of                     
  school funding, and leaving it up to the local school                        
  district to make up the difference.  He said it was                          
  impossible for the committee to deduce the meaning of the                    
  governor's letter.  He said he would support the legislation                 
  as a way to reduce the shock to the people of Ketchikan.                     
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for more discussion, and hearing none,                     
  called for a roll call vote on the amendment.  Those voting                  
  YEA were Representatives Kott, Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia,                   
  Toohey, Bunde, and G. Davis.  Representative Vezey voted NO.                 
  The MOTION PASSED.                                                           
  CHAIR BUNDE announced that the appropriation from the                        
  constitutional budget reserve in HB 83 was $109,446,663.  He                 
  called for discussion.                                                       
  Number 500                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked if the committee was willing to                  
  dive into the constitutional budget reserve at that point.                   
  CHAIR BUNDE said he was ready to do so.                                      
  Number 506                                                                   
  page 5 line 25, concerning $1.2 million for a new Eagle                      
  River elementary school road, and said that he would like to                 
  see the money used for roads, even though it was probably                    
  appropriated to schools.                                                     
  CHAIR BUNDE said he could not speak to the correctness of                    
  the list, as it was taken from the governor's list.  He                      
  examined the original HB 83, and asked Representative Vezey                  
  to offer information on the project.                                         
  Number 518                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said the best information the committee                 
  had was the information in the bill, and that Representative                 
  Kott was the first to question it.                                           
  MR. BADER SUGGESTED that DELETING the word "roads" from the                  
  language in question and INSERTING the words "new                            
  elementary" would probably cover the intended purpose, and                   
  allow the money to be used for either purpose.                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Representative Kott if he would make such                  
  a motion.                                                                    
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT MOVED AMENDING page 5, line 25 to DELETE                 
  the word "roads" from the language in question and INSERT                    
  the words "new Eagle River elementary."                                      
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY said, "If we could build a school for                  
  $1 million, I'd say let's do it.  I don't think we can."                     
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS said the money must be for site                      
  preparation, not a whole school.                                             
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee had the original                          
  information the projects were taken from.  He said                           
  Representative B. Davis was probably correct.                                
  Number 555                                                                   
  testified in Juneau on HB 83.  He said that the Anchorage                    
  School District did not appropriate money for roads when it                  
  built the school.  Since that time, inflation had raised the                 
  cost of roads to the price listed in HB 83, he said.                         
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT WITHDREW his AMENDMENT.                                  
  Number 562                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE MOVED an AMENDMENT to page 3, line 19                   
  of the bill, to ADD $61,631,000 for phase two of a Fairbanks                 
  North Star Borough high school.                                              
  CHAIR BUNDE RULED Representative Brice OUT OF ORDER.                         
  Number 572                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY OBJECTED.                                              
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "Now, back to reality.  Representative                     
  Brice, would you like us to vote on that amendment?                          
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE indicated that he did, indeed, want the                 
  committee to vote on his amendment, when he had finished                     
  reading it.  He said his amendment also included changes to                  
  page 1, line 5, increasing the total appropriation to                        
  CHAIR BUNDE continued, "Any other discussion?  May we vote                   
  us back to reality?"                                                         
  REPRESENTATIVE TOOHEY reminded the chair that she had                        
  objected to the motion.                                                      
  CHAIR BUNDE said that the committee would then vote.                         
  REPRESENTATIVE B. DAVIS added, "I thought he was just                        
  kidding, but if he's serious I need to know what he wants us                 
  to vote on.  Because if we're going to play that game then I                 
  guess we could all start putting some out."                                  
  CHAIR BUNDE threatened, "If we're going to play that game,                   
  we'll adjourn.  If he wants $61 million for a high school in                 
  Fairbanks, a noble cause, but..."                                            
  A roll call vote showed that those voting YEA were                           
  Representatives Brice, and Vezey. Those voting NO were                       
  Representatives Kott, Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Toohey,                    
  Bunde, and G. Davis.  The MOTION FAILED.                                     
  REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted for the record that he and                        
  Representative Vezey had voted together on an issue, setting                 
  a record.                                                                    
  TAPE 93-51, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 026                                                                   
  INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.                                                  
  CHAIR BUNDE heard OBJECTION to the motion, and called for a                  
  roll call vote.  After a brief interruption from                             
  Representative Kott, the chair ordered the roll call vote to                 
  resume.  Those voting YEA were Representatives Olberg, B.                    
  Davis, Nicholia, Toohey, Bunde, G. Davis, Vezey, and Kott.                   
  Representative Brice voted NO.  The MOTION PASSED.                           
  Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR BUNDE                 
  adjourned the meeting at 4:40 p.m.                                           

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