Legislature(2019 - 2020)CAPITOL 106
04/15/2019 06:30 PM House FISHERIES
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| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| Confirmation Hearing(s): Consideration of Governor's Appointee's: Board of Fisheries | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
JOINT MEETING
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
April 15, 2019
6:33 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
Representative Louise Stutes, Chair
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Chuck Kopp
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins
Representative Geran Tarr
Representative Sarah Vance
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
Representative John Lincoln, Co-Chair
Representative Geran Tarr, Co-Chair
Representative Grier Hopkins, Vice Chair
Representative Sara Hannan
Representative Ivy Spohnholz
Representative Chris Tuck
Representative Dave Talerico
Representative George Rauscher
Representative Sara Rasmussen
MEMBERS ABSENT
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
All members present
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Dan Ortiz
Senator Peter Micciche
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):
Consideration of Governor's Appointees: Board of Fisheries
Israel Payton - Wasilla
Gerad Godfrey Eagle River
Marit Carlson-Van Dort - Anchorage
Karl Johnstone Anchorage
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
ISRAEL PAYTON, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Fisheries.
GERAD GODFREY, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Fisheries.
MARIT CARLSON-VAN DORT, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Fisheries.
KARL JOHNSTONE, Appointee
Board of Fisheries
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointee to the Board of
Fisheries.
RON SOMERVILLE, Secretary/Treasurer
Territorial Sportsmen
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
BEN MOHR, Executive Director
Kenai River Sportfishing Association (KRSA)
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
REUBEN HANKE
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
FORREST BRADEN
Southeast Alaska Guides Organization (SEAGO)
Gustavus, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
WILLIAM L. MACKAY
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
FRANCES LEACH, Executive Director
United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone and that UFA was not opposed to the
confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit
Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
LARS STANGELAND
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MARK VINSEL
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director
Southeast Alaska Fishermen's Alliance (SEAFA)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
JEFFREY BUSHKE
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
CHUCK DERRICK, President
Chitina Dipnetters Association
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
CHIP TREINEN
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MARVIN PETERS
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to
the Board of Fisheries.
ROSELEEN MOORE
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
FRED STAGER
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
SALUA STAGER
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
JULIE DOLL
Salcha, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR
Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
NORMAN VAN VACTOR
Dillingham, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Israel Payton and in opposition to the confirmations of Mari
Carlson-Van Dort and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of
Fisheries.
DANIELLE RINGER
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmation of Israel
Payton, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
CRAIG DEHART
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
OLIVER HOLM
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ANDREW COUCH
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
EARL LACKEY
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
REED MORISKY
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
ROB BOYER
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
RAYMOND NESBETT, Esq.
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
SUSAN DOHERTY, Executive Director
Southeast Alaska Seiners Association
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the
confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van
Dort, and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
JOE MERTISHEV, Board Member
Kachemak Bay Fisheries Association
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
BURT BOMHOFF
Chugiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
TED CROOKSTON
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
CLAY BEZENEK
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to
the Board of Fisheries.
SHAWNA WILLIAMS BUCHUAN
Chugiak and Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ERIC SPADE
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ANDREW SZCZESNY
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
STEVE MCCLURE
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
KAREN MCGAHAN
Nikiski, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
RICHARD MCGAHAN
Nikiski, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
BRIAN MERRITT
Wrangell, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
WINSTON DAVIES
Wrangell, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
TIMOTHY MOORE
Homer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
JAMES HONKOLA
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
JOHN RENNER
Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU)
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MICHAEL MICKELSON
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
CHELSEA HAISMAN
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MICHAEL BABIC
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
TRACY NUZZI
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MAX WORHATCH, Executive Director
United Southeast Alaska Gillnetters (USAG)
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ERIC GRUNDBERG
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the
confirmations of Karl Johnstone and Marit Carlson-Van Dort,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
DAVE THYNES
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MARY EVENS
Petersburg, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
CHAD HEWITT
Iliamna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
NATHAN GRUENING
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
CHRIS CLEMENS
Seward, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
PAUL HOLLAND
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
BIRCH YUKNIS, DDS
Wasilla, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
BILL IVERSON
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
JACK OLIVE
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
GREG BRUSH
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
KENT HUFF
Gustavus, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
MIKE SZYMANSKI
Big Lake, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
LINDA BEHNKEN, Executive Director
Alaska Longline Fishermen's Association
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to
the Board of Fisheries.
KURT WHITEHEAD
Klawock, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Israel Payton, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
JOE HINTON
Seward, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
VICKY JO KENNEDY
Fish Watch
Kodiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
RICHARD YAMADA
Alaska Tribal Association
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
NANCY HILLSTRAND
Port Lyons, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
ROBERT PENNEY
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
GEORGE PIERCE
Kasilof, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the
confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van
Dort, and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
JOHN WHISSEL
Native Village of Eyak
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ANDY HALL, President
Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association
Eagle River, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
KASEY LOOMIS
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
RAY DEBARDELABEN, President
Kenai River Professional Guide Association
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
PAUL SHADURA II
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
MONTE ROBERTS
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
FRED STURMAN
Soldotna, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the
confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van
Dort, and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
RON CARMON
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the
confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van
Dort, and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
GARY STEVENS
Chugiak, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
JARED DANIELSON
Seattle, Washington
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
TODD SMITH
Kenai, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Israel Payton and in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
CLEM TILLION
Halibut Cove, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
ROLAND MAW, PhD
Kasilof, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified during the confirmation hearing
for Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries.
ACTION NARRATIVE
6:33:00 PM
CHAIR LOUISE STUTES called the joint meeting of the House
Special Committee on Fisheries and the House Resources Standing
Committee to order at [6:33] p.m. Present at the call to order
from the House Special Committee on Fisheries were
Representatives Vance, Kopp, Tarr, and Stutes. Present from the
House Resources Standing Committee were Representatives
Rauscher, Talerico, Spohnholz, Hannan, Tuck, Tarr, and Lincoln.
Representatives Edgmon and Kreiss-Tomkins from the House Special
Committee on Fisheries and Representatives Hopkins and Rasmussen
from the House Resources Standing Committee arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING(S): Consideration of Governor's
Appointee's: Board of Fisheries
Consideration of Governor's Appointee's: Board of Fisheries
6:34:13 PM
CHAIR STUTES announced that the only order of business would be
consideration of the governor's appointees to the Board of
Fisheries: Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van
Dort, and Karl Johnstone.
CHAIR STUTES introduced the first appointee, Mr. Israel Payton
of Wasilla. She noted Mr. Payton currently serves on the board
and is up for re-appointment. If confirmed Mr. Payton would
serve from 7/1/19 to 6/30/22.
6:36:02 PM
ISRAEL PAYTON, Appointee, Board of Fisheries, testified as
appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he has served on
the board for the last three years, one full term, and
appreciates his re-appointment to serve another term. He was
home birthed in a trapper's cabin in the Alaska Range. He and
his three siblings were raised in the Alaska Bush near the
community of Skwentna. His family subsisted off the land and
water, utilizing everything and never taking more than what was
needed. He was homeschooled in the winters and in the summers
starting at age 11 he worked as a deckhand on his father's river
barge service. His unique upbringing has resulted in his
tenacious character and passion for fish and game resources. He
began working in the fish guiding industry at age 15 and
continued seasonally for about 12 years, operating his own guide
business for part of that time. He quit guiding fishermen in
2004. Over the years he has also worked as a hunting guide,
welder, North Slope operator, construction hand, aviation
mechanic, and bush pilot. Currently he develops property in the
Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Valley.
MR. PAYTON related he is often asked what group he represents on
the board and his answer is that he represents Alaska and
Alaskans. He said he is often labeled as a sport fishing person
or seat but is actually a subsistence user and identifies more
with that. Growing up he lived through the Payton v. State
case, which instilled in him the importance of providing
subsistence opportunity to Alaskan residents. His core belief
is that residents of Alaska should be always provided a
reasonable opportunity to harvest fish and game resources. He
has traveled across the state and understands the importance of
these resources to the state and the people here. During his
time on the board he has earned the reputation of someone who
works hard, reads all the material, has an open mind, is
approachable, and willing to work with all user groups. He
provides leadership in setting policy and direction on the board
using Article VIII of the state constitution, Section 16 of
statute, as his guiding principles. He enjoys working with all
stakeholders. When voting he tries to articulate his rationale
for or against a proposal. He has a great relationship with the
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) staff. He works well
with all board members and user groups and would enjoy
continuing to serve on the board.
6:39:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK requested Mr. Payton to elaborate on the
Payton v. State case.
MR. PAYTON replied he grew up in the bush in Skwentna and there
was no subsistence fishery. His family lived on the river where
the water was brackish and could not legally catch a fish. The
only legal way to harvest the fish was to drive about 10 miles
downriver in a boat and compete with recreation fishermen, sport
fishermen, and lodge owners, and harvest three fish under the
sport fishing limit, then return home. There was no opportunity
to harvest fish going right by the family's doorstep in a means
that the fish could be preserved for the winter, so basically no
subsistence. His family went through three different cycles of
the [Board of Fisheries] process and was rejected each time.
Then, saying that the board was not following the constitution
and the statute, [his father, Tom Payton,] sued the state. [On
6/13/97] the Supreme Court of Alaska remanded the board to
reverse its decision and find the subsistence out there.
6:41:15 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR noted the statute is quite general about who the
membership of the Board of Fisheries can be, and there has been
"a de facto 3-3-1" understanding of [board seats]. She said it
is important to her to think about a balance of the views being
represented because of the conflict and tension over allocation.
Regarding the 3-3-1, she recalled Mr. Payton's statement that he
is filling a seat considered to be sport fishing even though he
identifies more with subsistence. She requested Mr. Payton to
discuss this further.
MR. PAYTON responded he doesn't necessarily agree with the 3-3-1
or with designated seats. He said the statute clearly states
that there will not be, but that is kind of the way it is.
Diversity is key. Everyone is going to have a different
perspective and his perspective is in-river use. He doesn't
have a commercial fish background, but over the last three years
he has gained a lot more commercial perspective. He has gone
out with commercial fishermen and become friends and will soon
be going bear hunting with a setnetter and sharing a cabin for
10 days. His perspective "in seat" would be in-river use, and
that would be subsistence, personal, and sport use. Utilizing
the resource in-river is his strong perspective.
CO-CHAIR TARR inquired how Mr. Payton thinks the board roles are
working and how the board can be improved to truly represent all
the interests. She said she has heard Mr. Payton is a hard
worker, always prepared, and a strong contributor to the board.
MR. PAYTON answered that maintaining diversity on the board is
wanted, whether it be 2-2-2-1 or something else, with strong
perspectives from each side as well as some from a little more
to the neutral. Relatively equal diversity in the board is very
important; someone who is going to automatically always advocate
or vote one way would not be wanted. However, he added, that
might be what is wanted as the governor picks the appointees and
the legislature confirms them, so it is not up to him.
6:44:53 PM
CHAIR STUTES said she knows from watching Mr. Payton over the
last few years that he is well respected for his decisions and
that they are usually science-based decisions. While she may
not always agree with Mr. Payton, she respects the way he
arrives at his positions on the board. She noted science has
been coming out regarding hatcheries and straying fish and the
effect it could possibly have on wild runs. Many people have
jumped to the conclusion that these enhanced fish are
contributing to the smaller wild runs. She asked whether, at
this time, Mr. Payton has a position on that. She said she
wants to be reassured that if Mr. Payton doesn't yet have a
position and does take one later, that it is science and
research based.
MR. PAYTON replied that his voting record reflects he votes with
science, and the science hasn't proven to him that that has
happened.
CHAIR STUTES understood Mr. Payton to be saying he doesn't
currently have enough information to take a position on hatchery
fish.
MR. PAYTON responded that ADF&G's data at that time didn't show
detrimental effect, but that there was concern and it was being
looked at more. He said he voted against that emergency action
because it wasn't proven to him that action should be taken to
reduce or destroy the egg take. He agrees with putting things
on pause and looking closer at hatcheries because the science
did raise some questions. He added, "We should police ourselves
to make sure wild stock is number one and sustainable and that
hatcheries aren't negatively affecting them, and we're looking
into it and we'll go where the science takes us on that one."
CHAIR STUTES inquired about Mr. Payton's view of traditional
intercept fisheries. She surmised Mr. Payton is aware Kodiak
has a traditional intercept fishery of Cook Inlet sockeye. She
posed a scenario of a stock becoming one of concern and there is
a traditional intercept fishery on a portion of that run. She
asked how the Board of Fisheries might approach that.
MR. PAYTON answered that it is complicated. He related he has
heard ADF&G say that managing mixed stock salmon fisheries isn't
rocket science; it's harder than that. The department is right
that it is very difficult as there are so many unknowns. For
traditional mixed stock fisheries, intercept fisheries, the
board has a mixed stock policy and follows its allocation
guidelines. When a mixed stock fishery has a weak stock
involved, and that weak stock is being harvested or exploited
too much, and management actions can be taken to reduce that
exploitation on that weaker stock, the board should look into it
and have a conversation about it.
6:48:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP thanked Mr. Payton for his willingness to
serve another term. He stated he is an active commercial
setnetter in Bristol Bay, as well as an active sport fisher on
the Kenai River. He has heard from all user groups that they
have a lot of respect for Mr. Payton, which speaks well for Mr.
Payton having a strong mind that isn't easily biased and that he
is following the science.
MR. PAYTON replied, "Thank you
6:50:03 PM
CHAIR STUTES announced public testimony would be taken after the
committee has spoken to all the appointees.
CHAIR STUTES introduced the next appointee, Mr. Gerad Godfrey of
Eagle River. She said this would be Mr. Godfrey's first time to
serve on the board and if confirmed Mr. Godfrey's term would be
from 7/1/19 to 6/30/22.
6:50:24 PM
GERAD GODFREY, Appointee, Board of Fisheries, testified as
appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he is a life-long
Alaskan and is an Alaska Native. His mother grew up in a
fishing family of subsistence and commercial fishers. She met
his father in Kodiak and his father traveled the state as a
state trooper. He grew up mostly in rural Alaska communities
before moving to the Anchorage area. He said he spent his youth
commercial fishing in the Kodiak Island fishery as a salmon
seiner. He also spent one season in 2013 fishing in Bristol
Bay. While he has experience commercial fishing, he has also
been exposed to people in rural Alaska who rely heavily on fish
for subsistence and he knows what that means.
MR. GODFREY said he spent 17 years as chair of the Violent
Crimes Compensation Board, so is very familiar with the state
board process and public testimony. He knows what it is like to
be on a state board and make decisions based on the evidence at
hand and being consistent, objective, and fair and having to
decline people who think they are entitled when they are not.
He spent three years in Governor Walker's administration as a
senior advisor on business and intergovernmental affairs, which
led to a great deal of exposure and time in rural Alaska and
learning a great deal about the concerns regarding fisheries.
He also attended meetings on behalf of Lieutenant Governor
Mallott. He allowed the Board of Fisheries can be a provocative
board because no decision that it makes will make everybody
happy, and at times it is probably more provocative than it
should be and needs to be. He said being objective, consistent,
open minded, and fair is what he will bring to the board.
6:55:11 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR referenced the question she posed to the previous
appointee regarding diversity on the Board of Fisheries. She
pointed out that under the current appointments some positions
would move "commercial" seats out of coastal communities and be
more urban located. She inquired as to how Mr. Godfrey would
stay in touch with the needs of those coastal communities, given
he resides near Anchorage.
MR. GODFREY offered his appreciation for the question. He said
that since there are no designated seats on this board it gives
him heartburn when there is a de facto concept that various
geographic areas should get a certain number of seats on the
board because in reality any given governor at any given time
can pull the rug right out from what may have been the
convention for 10-15 years running, but that governor is not
bound by statute to recognize what is convention. That is
unfortunate, but often the de facto reality is reality for all
purposes.
MR. GODFREY continued his response. He related that when he was
interviewed for the board, he was asked who his constituency
would be if he was confirmed and he said his constituency would
be any and all Alaskans who engaged in the harvesting of this
resource. He doesn't have a specific constituent group.
Someone looking at his resume would see the commercial fishing,
but the assumption would have been that it was subsistence
fishing because of his familial connections. He currently
serves on the board of directors for the Afognak Native
Corporation, where subsistence users express their concerns from
time to time even though it doesn't rise to what a for-profit
corporation does. He doesn't have any constituency beyond all
the users and potential users in the state, meaning he is going
into this with an open mind and doesn't have any predetermined
outcomes or opinions in mind. He looks at data and science and
evidence and listens to public testimony and is probably
moveable on any and every position that may come before him
during his first year on the board. There will come a point at
where he has heard enough to draw decisions after 12-18 months,
but right now he is a blank slate. The reality is that he has
probably had more sport fishing licenses in the last 20 years
than commercial licenses. He has extended family and many
friends in the Interior and on Kodiak Island who still engage in
subsistence harvesting and his contacts continue regardless of
what he is doing in his day job. He anticipates still being
tied into the various user groups that he has had familiarity
with in the past.
6:59:49 PM
CHAIR STUTES referenced the question she posed to the previous
appointee about hatcheries, fish straying, and possible effects
on wild runs and requested Mr. Godfrey's thoughts.
MR. GODFREY responded his thoughts are that he is open minded
and not quick to react to science that appears to have a
predetermined outcome and agenda in hand; he appreciates a
comprehensive study. He said he knows firsthand from commercial
fishing in Kitoi Bay, Alaska, on Afognak Island while growing up
that there is a quantifiable and tangible benefit, economically
and otherwise, to hatchery fisheries. If there is a
comprehensive study and data that would indicate there is a
correlating adverse response to wild stock and it is quantified
in science, he is moveable on that as well. There are so many
variables that would have to go into that study. This came up
while he was in the previous administration and it didn't seem
like the science was settled science at the time because there
were certain questions that couldn't be answered at the time.
He said he understands a comprehensive study is underway and he
is open to data that shows a negative impact to wild stocks if
and when that data becomes available. As things stand right
now, he only has his personal experience of the economic benefit
of hatcheries for commercial, subsistence, and sport fisheries.
CHAIR STUTES recalled the question she posed to the previous
appointee about intercept fisheries and how Kodiak has a
traditional intercept fishery of Cook Inlet sockeye. She
requested Mr. Godfrey's ideas on situations like this where a
stock becomes of concern.
MR. GODFREY answered he doesn't have an idea; he has questions.
He said if he is confirmed he will to need to read and process
data that is available. He disclosed he grew up getting those
Cook Inlet sockeye that were northbound through Shelikof Strait
on the west side of Kodiak Island. His gear would also get
sockeye bound for Bristol Bay. He would go to the southern
boundary of the Kodiak fishery and intercept fish bound for the
Chignik fisheries. There were also the Karluk and Red river
destinations on the west side of Kodiak Island. So, he is
sensitive to the fact that if the escapement goals are not being
hit and there is decimation in returning salmon to the point
where escapement has to be raised and closures have to be
extended, that is problematic to upstream users north of the
Kodiak fisheries. He doesn't have an answer because he doesn't
have enough information, but he knows that there are commercial,
subsistence, personal, and sport fish users far north of Kodiak
that are impacted by what happens before those salmon make it
there whether it is out in the ocean or heading through the
Kodiak Island fishery. He is open to seeing data on that but
doesn't have an answer.
7:04:41 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK noted the committee packet [includes a copy
of Mr. Godfrey's application] but not his resume. He noted Mr.
Godfrey has a certificate from the Alaska Native Executive
Leadership Program. He requested Mr. Godfrey to provide further
information regarding his education.
MR. GODFREY responded that he graduated from Chugiak High School
in Eagle River; received a Bachelor of Science degree from the
University of Great Falls, Great Falls, Montana; and received a
Juris Doctorate degree from Concordia School of Law.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired about Mr. Godfrey's current work.
MR. GODFREY answered he is full-time self-employed between
consulting and his service on the Afognak board of directors.
Regarding the possibility of conflict of interest, he said he
doesn't have any current, and never has had, any clients that
have anything to do with fisheries, and he would not take any in
the future if he serves on the Board of Fisheries.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked what the industries are that Mr.
Godfrey consults for.
MR. GODFREY replied his clients have been based outside of
Alaska, particularly crypto currency and genealogy, with the
genealogy related to how it applies to law enforcement cold case
analysis, as well as working for some tribes.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired about what made Mr. Godfrey think
he may have a conflict with his consulting.
MR. GODFREY responded that when someone is a consultant, the
word consulting is very vague. He recalled that about 10-13
years ago a legislator, who is no longer in the legislature, got
a lot of heat because that legislator during the interim had a
contract for consulting with a large entity based in Alaska.
Some people wanted to understand the details of that and what
committee assignments that legislator had based on whether that
person was a consultant just for access. Therefore, he is
hypersensitive to the term consultant when it is viewed as such
a vague umbrella of taking clients on.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked if Mr. Godfrey submitted a resume.
MR. GODFREY answered yes; he uploaded his resume when he
completed the application. He noted the Senate had a copy of
his resume when he appeared in a hearing before that body.
7:09:17 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired whether Mr. Godfrey is licensed
to practice law in Alaska and has passed the Alaska Bar [exam].
MR. GODFREY replied no, he hasn't sat for the exam and doesn't
intend to. He said he didn't pursue a Juris Doctorate for the
purpose of practicing law but rather for personal reasons.
CHAIR STUTES introduced the next appointee, Ms. Marit Carlson-
Van Dort of Anchorage. She said this would be Ms. Carlson-Van
Dort's first time to serve on the board. If confirmed, Ms.
Carlson-Van Dort's term would be from 5/1/19 to 6/30/21.
7:09:51 PM
MARIT CARLSON-VAN DORT, Appointee, Board of Fisheries, testified
as appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said she is a born
and raised Alaskan from the southern Alaska Peninsula. She
attended school in Juneau during winters and spent her summers
in Chignik Bay. She has many connections between Kodiak and
Chignik Bay. Excepting the last five and a half years, she has
lived her entire life in coastal Alaska off the road system.
Chignik is a small community with a long history in fisheries,
primarily salmon, but over the years Chignik has at one time or
another hosted several fisheries, including cod, crab, and
halibut.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT noted that in the early 1990s, when she was
12 or 13 years old, she was offered a job on her grandfather's
seiner and she spent 14 summers seining in that salmon fishery,
as did her mother for 24 years and her grandfather for over 60
years, and his father before him. Each summer her family would
catch its subsistence fish and salt, dry, smoke, can, and freeze
the fish to enjoy throughout the year. Fishing afforded her the
opportunity for an excellent education and inspired a life-long
interest in ecology and the sciences of the natural world. She
graduated from Juneau-Douglas High School and earned a Bachelor
of Science degree in conservation biology from the University of
Wisconsin-Madison. This university pioneered the science of
limnology and fish ecology in freshwater systems in North
American and this is where she concentrated most of her studies.
She continued her education at the University of Alaska
Southeast, receiving a Master of Science in fisheries with
interest in large population dynamics in salmonid species and a
Master of Arts Teaching program where she studied secondary
education with a math-science emphasis.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT stated that how Alaska protects its salmon
and uses its many resources has remained essential to her
personal and professional interest. Formerly she was a
legislative staffer and spent many hours working in the Senate
Resources Standing Committee. She was also a legislative
liaison for the Department of Conservation for 6-7 years. She
recently shifted to the private sector, working in public and
government affairs in areas associated with state and federal
regulation, environmental policies, permitting, development, and
community outreach. She is currently the director of external
affairs for NANA Regional Corporation. Additionally, she has
spent many years leading an Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act
(ANCSA) village corporation for managing its lands for
subsistence; so, resources remain the highest priority and best
use of the corporation's lands.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT related that her interest in serving on the
Board of Fisheries became most pronounced in the last year. She
is becoming increasingly interested and concerned about the
state of Alaska's fish resources. The poor seasons and low
escapements experienced all over the state last year refocused
her attention on the many questions and unknowns that are
affecting Alaska's fish. What possible biologic variables could
be impacting Alaska's fisheries as well as the effects of the
competition amongst stakeholders and user groups? She strongly
believes that how the challenges are approached will determine
the long-term viability and success of Alaska's fisheries. The
board's greatest challenge is how to manage in the interest of
conservation and satisfy the needs of various user groups
without creating special privileges and exclusive rights. She
is interested and willing to dedicate herself to this challenge,
and she will base decisions on sound and defensible science and
incorporating valuable local and traditional knowledge. The
collective goal is to ensure a healthy ecosystem and long-term
sustainable resource that provides for all Alaskans.
7:17:01 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN thanked Ms. Carlson-Van Dort for her
willingness to serve and asked whether Ms. Carlson-Van Dort has
any conflicts of interest in serving on this board.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT replied she doesn't believe she has any
conflicts of interest at this point. She said no one in her
immediate family is involved in the fisheries, although her
extended family is.
7:17:58 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE inquired why Ms. Carlson-Van Dort didn't
continue with teaching.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT responded she was young, and while it was
rewarding, she felt like she needed to take a break from school.
When she returned to Alaska she started getting interested in
public policy and that is when she went to work for the
legislature and the trajectory of her career went from there.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE observed Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's work and
board experience includes president and CEO of Far West Inc.
She requested a description of the business.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT answered that it is the ANCSA village
corporation she previously mentioned. The corporation holds
lands in the Chignik Bay area and participates in the Small
Business Administration's 8(a) federal contracting program.
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE noted there is much concern in the fishing
industry of any connection to the Pebble Limited Partnership.
She requested Ms. Carlson-Van Dort to explain her time working
for Pebble and how that is going to reflect upon her time on the
Board of Fisheries.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT replied she doesn't believe it will reflect
at all on her participation or ability to make objective
decisions while on the Board of Fisheries. She said she was
hired after two years of deliberation. She took the position at
the Pebble Partnership primarily because she was concerned about
the Bristol Bay fishery and any impacts that might arise from
the development of a mine at the Pebble Project site. Shortly
after she was hired the primary investor left the project and so
at that time the nature of what she was doing there changed
dramatically. She focused her work on what types of benefits a
project like Pebble might be able provide to residents of the
Bristol Bay region. The company she went to work for is very
different than the one she left last year. She is interested in
reviewing the draft environmental impact statement that the
company has put forth. She stated for the record that she
remains unconvinced that a mine at Pebble would decimate the
Bristol Bay salmon fishery, but she thinks there are legitimate
concerns that folks have. She spent quite a bit of time in the
region talking about those with stakeholders.
7:22:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired about Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's
experience with the fishing vessel Miss Marit.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT responded that the Miss Marit was built and
named for her by her grandfather in 1979 and was the boat she
was hired on.
7:23:25 PM
CHAIR STUTES referenced the question she posed to the previous
appointees about intercept fisheries and how Kodiak has a
traditional intercept fishery of Cook Inlet sockeye. She
requested Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's views on traditional intercept
fisheries.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT answered that with respect to mixed stocks
and terminal fisheries it is fair to share in bountiful times
when salmon returns are prolific and strong. But, she said, she
also thinks it is fair to be conservative to ensure escapement
goals necessary to maintain the productivity of the stock over
time. Return numbers change and they can change a lot from year
to year, so it is prudent to look at the data to see if it is a
freak occurrence or possible trend. That is why it is
appropriate to review those management plans and allocations on
a regular basis and that is what the board does.
CHAIR STUTES repeated the question she posed to the previous
appointees about hatcheries, fish straying, and possible effects
on wild runs and requested Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's position on
hatchery fish.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT replied she doesn't have a position on
hatchery fish and is very interested in learning about the
issue. She said she believes that hatcheries and those enhanced
fisheries have a place and purpose and have provided value to
the commercial fisheries that are in the hatchery areas. With
that said, it is important to take a precautionary approach to
those hatcheries and have a good understanding of what (indisc.
- audio difficulty). She doesn't yet have a strong feeling one
way or the other but is very curious to see where the discussion
leads.
CHAIR STUTES stated that there is a lot of political pressure
around fisheries. She asked whether Ms. Carlson-Van Dort feels
she will be able to resist that pressure in making board
decisions that are based on science and research as opposed to
political pressure.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT responded, "Most definitely." She said
pressure is good and bad and she doesn't know if the right thing
to say is to resist or incorporate the political pressure and
pressure in general. Good things come from pressure. It is a
delicate balance and needs to be debated on defensible data and
that data needs to come from multiple sources to make as
informed a decision as possible.
7:27:34 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR referenced the question she posed to the previous
appointees regarding diversity and balance on the Board of
Fisheries to ensure that everybody's interests are represented.
Regarding the de facto seats on the board, she noted Ms.
Carlson-Van Dort would be representing the viewpoint of
subsistence. She requested Ms. Carlson-Van Dort to share her
thoughts and how she will weigh her role.
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT answered that her role is to represent user
groups in the state of Alaska. She said the de facto seat
definitions are kind of a simple way of trying to maintain
balance. It is important to have a board plate that has a
varied background amongst the use of the fisheries and that is
being seen in her and some of the other candidates as well. She
has a lot of experience and her family has had a lot of
experience. Subsistence use is very important and so is the
commercial fishing aspect. She has been around sport fishing
but not participated only because she is not very good at it.
People who serve on the board need to have a balanced background
and she brings that to the plate.
CHAIR STUTES introduced the next appointee, Mr. Karl Johnstone
of Anchorage. She noted Mr. Johnstone previously served on the
board from 2008-2015. If confirmed, Mr. Johnstone's appointment
would run from 5/1/19 to 7/30/2021.
7:30:00 PM
KARL JOHNSTONE, Appointee, Board of Fisheries, testified as
appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he has lived in
the Anchorage area continuously since arriving in Alaska in
1967. After practicing law for a few years, he was appointed to
the Anchorage Superior Court where he served until 1997, the
last four years as presiding judge of the trial courts. He
served on the Board of Fisheries from 2008-2015, the last four
years of which he served as chairman, three of which were
unanimous, and last one being in October 2014. This would be
his third full confirmation. He was a setnetter in Bristol Bay
for a couple years and then fished a drift permit in Bristol Bay
for a few years. He also was a commercial fisherman for sac roe
herring in Southeast Alaska and in Prince William Sound.
MR. JOHNSTONE said many of his supporters characterize him as
having good knowledge of the fishery and the process, experience
in the fishery, always well prepared, and attending every part
of every meeting. He is told he is accessible, polite, direct,
listens to everybody, and is a good advocate for the resource.
His opponents say he coerces, threatens, and is disrespectful to
ADF&G staff, the public, and his fellow board members. He asked
the committee to consider whether it makes sense to be
unanimously elected by his fellow board members for three
consecutive years if these claims were true. They are not.
MR. JOHNSTONE stated he suspects there is going to be a fair
amount of controversy about him. He is told one thing that will
be brought up is his hiring of a coroner 25 years ago when one
of his tasks as presiding judge was to hire employees,
magistrate judges, and other staff in the court system. He said
he deviated from an established hiring process in 1994 and hired
a coroner recommended by the chief justice. This was against
the good advice given to him by administrative staff and other
competent people. A complaint was made and the judges committee
that was commissioned after a hearing ruled that while his
conduct was legal and authorized by law, it gave the appearance
of impropriety. The Supreme Court of Alaska agreed, and he was
given a reprimand, which he believes was appropriate and
deserved. He is proud of his 25 years of public service, but
everyone makes mistakes, and he made a mistake, and he was
wrong, and he learned from it.
7:33:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired about the location from which Mr.
Johnstone is calling today.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he is calling from Prescott, Arizona,
after returning from a visit with his daughter in a hospital in
California.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked what portion of time Mr. Johnstone
lives in Prescott versus Anchorage.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he lives most of time, probably seven
months, in Anchorage where he has a home. He said he travels
quite a bit to other states and doesn't just stay in Arizona.
He spends enough time in Alaska to easily receive a permanent
fund dividend each year.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired about the number of months that
Mr. Johnstone receives the Cost of Living Allowance (COLA) for
his state retirement.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that COLA does not apply to judicial
retirement, but he believes it does apply to other state
retirement benefits.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN noted that when Mr. Johnstone previously
served on the Board of Fisheries and was a resident of
Anchorage, he traditionally took a suite at the Captain Cook
Hotel versus staying in his home. She requested Mr. Johnstone
to describe why he did that and what would be his intention if
re-appointed.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied that in 2009 department staff told him
that he should stay in or near the hotel in Anchorage when board
meetings were conducted and that he would be given a hotel room
and per diem. He was asked, and thought instructed, to stay
there. The department received this authority from the director
of the Division of Administrative Services every year he was
there. There are several documents, one a memorandum dated
10/24/13, which was a request for him to receive lodging and
meals in Anchorage while attending board meetings for the 2013
and 2014 meeting cycle. Reading from the memorandum, he
continued: "Meeting days require long hours and work sessions in
the evening as well as preparation for next day's meetings,
formal meetings before and after formal on-the-record sessions.
This schedule makes it very inconvenient for Mr. Johnstone to
drive home at the end of the day and turn around early the next
morning to make the meetings on time. This is in the best
interest of the board process Mr. Johnstone remain on site of
the meetings." He added that this was a decision made by the
department, not by him.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired as to who signed the memo.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded that it was from Shaundy Petraborg,
Administrative Officer, Boards Support Section. The executive
director of the Boards Support Section, Glenn Haight, and his
predecessor also made them. This memo was directed to Sunny
Haight, the director of the Division of Administrative Services.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked where Mr. Johnstone would stay when
in Anchorage if he were again on the Board of Fisheries.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered he would stay where he was told to stay
for the best interests of the board. He would much prefer to
stay in his own house, as he gets tired of hotel meals. He said
he doesn't make any money on this, it is an inconvenience, but
in the winter, it is about 45 minutes between his house and the
hotel during good conditions, longer during bad conditions.
7:38:35 PM
CHAIR STUTES inquired whether it was at Mr. Johnstone's request
or the board's request that he stay at the hotel.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied that in 2009 he asked what the policy
would be for meetings held in Anchorage. He was told that the
department would want him to stay in a hotel in Anchorage and be
paid per diem when he was in Anchorage. It wasn't a request by
him, but rather an answer to a question he asked.
CHAIR STUTES asked whether Mr. Johnstone is aware that when
legislators receive per diem it is only if the legislator does
not live within a 50-mile radius from where the meeting is.
MR. JOHNSTONE confirmed he is aware about other public
officials. The subject of these memorandums and these requests
made by the department, and not by him, requested travel status
acknowledging that he would be coming from less than a 50-mile
radius to a duty station. He understood that, but it wasn't his
decision. He didn't ask for it, he was told he should be at the
meetings and they asked for it for him.
7:40:04 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR reflected on whether it would be good to get some
new people involved in the board because new energy can be good.
She offered her understanding that Mr. Johnstone was now
transitioning into a new phase of his life with more travel.
She inquired whether Mr. Johnstone has received an Alaska
permanent fund dividend every year for the last five years.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered he has received three in the last five
years. He said he forgot to apply for one and the other he
decided not to apply even though he would have qualified.
CO-CHAIR TARR referenced the question she asked the other
appointees about diversity on the board. She asked whether Mr.
Johnstone feels his previous board experience is an asset or a
liability in this case because when someone is a known entity
people may perceive that any previous problems are going to come
back to the board again. She related that she has heard
criticisms of Mr. Johnstone's leadership style and treatment of
the public, although she couldn't confirm the accuracy of those
criticisms. She asked Mr. Johnstone how she should be thinking
about those concerns as she evaluates his appointment.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he has kept current on fisheries issues
over the past four years even though he hasn't been on the
board. He said he is very interested and passionate about the
issues and so tries to keep current. He was well known to be
prepared and his experience would be a big positive. When he
starts his first meeting, he will hit the ground running without
any learning curve. New board members must learn an entirely
new language of terms they've never heard before. He will be
able to provide mentorship to the new board members, which would
be an advantage to putting him on the board.
7:44:07 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN stated that Mr. Johnstone is probably
the most controversial appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She
inquired why there is so much opposition to Mr. Johnstone's
appointment because she can't imagine that the coroner story of
25 years ago equates to the current opposition that is
specifically coming from commercial fishing.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he has a hard time answering as he is
taken aback by some of the claims made about him, as he doesn't
believe they are accurate. He said he is very effective and
well prepared; he doesn't just rubberstamp what he hears from
the department and he doesn't just accept everything somebody
says without looking at it more carefully. The board members
listen to him, and when he expresses his opinions, he thinks
they consider them given his experience. Sometimes he votes in
a way that maybe costs the commercial fisheries and they look at
this as a business proposition and if he makes a decision that
costs them money, they are going to worry about that in the
future. That happens in the urban area around upper Cook Inlet,
he doesn't hear much flak from Bristol Bay or the Alaska
Peninsula. It seems to be centered on some of the fisheries
where there are mixed stocks and a lot of competition for their
use. He represents all Alaskans and his decisions are going to
be based on what is sustainable and he is going to try to divvy
up the resource so it complies with the Alaska constitution,
which says it should be managed for the maximum benefit of
Alaskans. Times have changed in Alaska and the policies and
regulations must change to adapt to the changing times.
REPRESENTATIVE RASMUSSEN asked Mr. Johnstone to estimate how
many times he voted against commercial fisheries as well as for
commercial fisheries while he was on the board.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied it would be impossible to figure that out.
7:47:06 PM
CHAIR STUTES recalled an opinion piece in the Anchorage Daily
News (ADN), [published 2/13/17], in which Mr. Johnstone asserted
that farmed fish are essentially the way of the future and
Alaska's commercial fishing industry is a dying one. She read
aloud from portions of the article, which stated [original
punctuation provided]:
The new businesses that are Alaska's economic future,
along with the average Alaska angler and dipnetter,
get treated like ugly stepsisters while the focus
remains on trying to prolong the life of the aged and
fading sibling for as long as possible even though the
benefits to the Alaska family are destined to steadily
decline.
Alaska salmon are today small players in a global
market where salmon farms, like it or not, dictate
price. The Norwegians produced a record 1.3 million
tons of farmed salmon in 2015, the Canadians, 1.2
million tons.
Commercial prices have flatlined. Unfortunately, one
cannot rule out the possibility that prices will
continue downward as aquaculture operations follow a
50-year trend and become ever more efficient. The
Worldwatch Institute, an influential NGO, is now
calling aquaculture "the most hopeful trend in the
world's increasingly troubled food system."
The world has changed, and it is changing evermore by
the day. We need to keep up!
CHAIR STUTES requested Mr. Johnstone to comment on his writing.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded that the aforementioned opinion piece
from a little over two years ago was intended to be provocative,
to get people's attention, and to get people thinking. The
words he used were intended in just that manner. It does not
mean he would discriminate in any way; he has no animus against
the commercial fishing industry, he was a commercial fisherman
himself and he wants it successful. But there are facts that
are taking place. The price paid to fishermen is a fraction of
what it was in the 1980s. Farmed fish are taking over. Alaska
used to be a big player in the salmon production worldwide; it
is now a much smaller player. He wants people to start thinking
about what can be done to maximize the economic benefit of
Alaska's commercial fisheries rather than just use the old
methods that have been done for so many years.
CHAIR STUTES inquired whether Mr. Johnstone is advocating for
farmed salmon in the state of Alaska. She said writing an
article like this and putting it in the Anchorage Daily News
suggests, to her, more than an attention-getting article.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered he is not in favor of developing a farmed
fishery in Alaska. What he said stands for itself and his
reason was to be provocative. He has written several opinion
pieces and opinion pieces are meant to get people thinking. He
reiterated he has nothing against commercial fishing and wants
it to succeed.
CHAIR STUTES stated that most of the opinion pieces written by
Mr. Johnstone have always expressed a clear bias towards
commercial fisheries. She asked whether that was also an
attention-getting way of trying to pay more attention to
Alaska's commercial fisheries. She further asked what the
purpose is of having such a bias against commercial fisheries in
his writing.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he disagrees with the chair's premise. He
said he does not have a bias; he tries to get people thinking
and to get people to understand the economic impacts of Alaska's
fisheries. It is sometimes to be provocative and sometimes to
provide information, but it is not biased.
7:51:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ noted that Mr. Johnstone cites his
experience as one reason for why legislators should support him.
She related she is an urban Alaskan who does do some personal
use fishing, but fishing is not her background. In researching
the background of appointees, it came to her attention that Mr.
Johnstone was asked to resign from the Board of Fisheries when,
under his leadership, the board interviewed only one of five
candidates for the board. Then-Speaker of the House Mike
Chenault wrote a letter to then-Governor Walker, two people who
did not see eye-to-eye on very much, requesting a review of the
meeting, and afterwards Governor Walker asked for Mr. Johnstone
to resign. She requested Mr. Johnstone to comment on this.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded that Governor Walker did not ask him to
resign after the Board of Fisheries met. The governor called
and told him he wasn't going to be reappointed that session, so
he then volunteered to resign if it would make it better and get
somebody on the board and up to steam. The Anchorage Daily News
accurately reported it. The Board of Fisheries is tasked with
interviewing and submitting names to the governor of people who
are being considered as commissioner of the Alaska Department of
Fish and Game. In this case the Board of Fisheries voted
unanimously not to interview or forward an individual by the
name of Dr. Roland Maw to Governor Walker as being qualified.
He cannot speak to other members as far as their reasons for
voting no, but he didn't think he was going to be a good fit, so
he voted no. The governor had already appointed Sam Cotton as
his [ADF&G] commissioner.
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ apologized and said Mr. Johnstone is
correct. The governor called Mr. Johnstone to express
disappointment about the lack of process demonstrated. The
governor was expressing this concern about the lack of a fair,
transparent, and public process.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that he specifically asked the Department
of Law through the board's support section whether the board
needed to give reasons if the board didn't want to forward an
individual's name to the governor. There were five other people
who had applied, including Sam Cotton, and the board didn't
interview them or forward their names either. He was told that
the board didn't need to give reasons and he felt the reasons
that might be given were unnecessary, as he didn't want to say
unpleasant things about somebody and wanted to make the decision
of whether or not to push a person forward. He was one of the
seven votes in the unanimous vote; the board makes these
decisions, not any individual.
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ commented that based on some of this
superficial review she isn't mystified as to why Mr. Johnstone's
appointment is controversial. She said that for a sense of
fairness, process really matters when talking about fish and
game. For her, the lack of process in reviewing those
candidates harkens back to Mr. Johnstone's earlier mistake. She
agreed everyone makes mistakes, including herself, but one must
learn from those mistakes and not make them again and again.
7:56:44 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR said bringing up these issues gets back to her
earlier question about Mr. Johnstone being an asset or liability
in coming back to the board. She said the opinion piece read by
Chair Stutes really strikes her because it is important to have
balance. While she can appreciate Mr. Johnstone's recognition
that times have changed, she can think of how to write about
this very same issue but with a totally different point of view,
such as looking at things like climate change, warming
temperatures, ocean acidification, illegal harvest from foreign
vessels, all of which are also influencing what is going on in
the commercial industry and what is happening with prices. She
is concerned that this piece pushes it because she has heard one
line of thinking that seems consistent with the suggestion that
the commercial industry is going to go away and the future is
going to be more personal use and subsistence. It troubles her
that this language seems foundational to that philosophy and, in
her mind, misses a lot of the potential reasons for stress on
commercial or other fisheries, but more importantly wouldn't
ensure that that diverse viewpoint was fairly represented. She
asked whether Mr. Johnstone has any comments in this regard.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he appreciates Co-Chair Tarr's comments
and can understand where she is coming from. He reiterated that
the opinion piece was intended to be provocative and he has
nothing against the commercial fishing industry. He said he
stands by those comments.
CO-CHAIR TARR noted commercial fishing is critically important
to Alaska's coastal communities and that sport fishing and
personal use are also important. She asked Mr. Johnstone if he
can see how someone in her position can interpret his writings
as a bias against commercial fishing and therefore can give
pause to someone in her position.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he could see it a little bit. He said
his intentions have always been to maximize the economic benefit
of all of Alaska's fisheries, from the viewpoints of putting
money in one's pocket or putting fish on one's table or in one's
freezer. That will be his plan going forward and has nothing to
do with being for or against commercial fisheries. It is for
the resource and what benefits Alaskans most. He sees some
changes in circumstances that may warrant looking at things a
little differently and he would like to see the commercial
fishing industry become more innovative. He is for creating
commercial fisheries, not getting rid of them.
CO-CHAIR TARR remarked it is important that a person on the
board be looking comprehensively at these issues. In her mind,
she continued, a lot of these challenges are much more
environmental pressures than other things. She wants to think
the board wouldn't be too closed-minded about some of these
pressures and is looking at it comprehensively.
MR. JOHNSTONE agreed and stated he wishes there was more
information about environmental issues affecting fish, but the
Board of Fisheries doesn't deal in that so much. The board has
a certain role set forth by statute and deals with the hand it
is given.
8:01:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN noted Mr. Johnstone's statement about
developing new commercial fisheries. She further noted there
has been much dialogue that perhaps Alaska already has a segment
that is called sport fishing but there is a commercial element
to it and the idea of developing guided sport fishing as a
separate commercial category. She requested Mr. Johnstone's
perspective in this regard.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that there is definitely a commercial
aspect to guided sport fishing; some regulations are in place
and maybe someday there will be a comprehensive regulatory
process for guides. He clarified that when he said he was for
developing commercial fisheries he was referring to fisheries
such as the Aleutians cod fishery, the pot cod fishery that he
spearheaded to create a state waters fishery. Instead of using
federal regulations, state regulations would be used and would
allow small coastal village vessels to participate in it. He
said Representative Hannan raises an interesting point about the
commercial aspect of guides.
8:02:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE surmised Mr. Johnstone is not surprised
that his appointment is one of contention in her district. She
requested Mr. Johnstone's opinion about the future of the
fishery in Cook Inlet.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied the fishery is healthy in general and has
been managed well by the state. He said escapement goals are
used for those fisheries; sometimes they are achieved, sometimes
they are low, and sometimes they are high. There is a much
competition for the resource. The major population of
Southcentral Alaska now has pretty good access to the Kenai, and
in some cases, they are unable to find fish unless they go to
the Kenai, so there is competition and that is hard on the
commercial fisheries. To some extent it could be considered
unfair because [commercial fishers] are giving up the share of
the pie/resource to others who now think they should have a
reasonable opportunity at this common property resource. With a
mixed stock fishery, escapement for all species must be ensured
and sometimes it is going to cut back on the major harvester,
which is the commercial fishing, and sometimes it is going to
cut back on the others. It is very challenging and so far, it
has been the commercial sector that has had to give up the fish
in order to accommodate increasing uses from the users, which
may seem unfair and he can sympathize.
8:05:02 PM
CHAIR STUTES related that several people have contacted her
office about Mr. Johnstone's appointment, but have refused to
comment in writing for fear of retribution due to their view of
Mr. Johnstone as vindictive based on their personal experiences
of him as a past board member. However, she continued, she did
get one email today in writing. She read aloud from a portion
of the email: "Karl personally tried to pressure me into
accepting KRSA's Board of Fish proposal, saying that if I didn't
his friends would put my family out of business. I witnessed
and heard firsthand from Board of Fish members, F&G employees,
and journalists who Mr. Johnstone openly threatened with
retribution when they opposed his wishes." She requested Mr.
Johnstone to respond.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded it is inaccurate and untrue. He said
that is the best he can do because he doesn't know whom Chair
Stutes is talking about and he doesn't know the circumstances.
CHAIR STUTES stated she would be more open if she had heard that
from only one or two people. That said, she inquired whether
Mr. Johnstone attends the Kenai River Classics.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered he hasn't been to the classic for six or
seven years.
CHAIR STUTES asked whether Mr. Johnstone had gone to the
classics in the past.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he did, and he attended the dinner when
all the legislators showed up but did not participate in the
fishery and he paid for the dinner. In checking with the Boards
Support Section and the ethics [Executive Branch Ethics Act] he
was told he should pay for it, which he did, and he left after
the dinner.
CHAIR STUTES further asked whether Mr. Johnstone paid all the
other expenses associated with that.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he isn't sure what Chair Stutes means by
that. He said he drove a car from Anchorage to Kenai and back
and paid for the gasoline and the car.
8:07:30 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR referenced Mr. Johnstone's referral to more
Anchorage and Southcentral users. She offered her understanding
that the commercial fisheries were set up before there were the
number of individual users and it has possibly been that the
commercial harvest has been cut short to allow more for the
personal use folks. She noted there is a "permit buyback bill,"
which she isn't in disagreement with because it would relieve
pressure. She said it sounds like Mr. Johnstone supports the
idea going forward that there needs to be a move toward the
increased personal use user group and away from commercial for
Upper Cook Inlet. She asked whether that is how Mr. Johnstone
wants it to sound.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied salmon is a common property resource and
everybody in the state has the certain right to an opportunity
if more than lip service is going to be given to the
constitution, which says the resource is to be managed for the
maximum benefit of Alaskans. He noted the personal use fishery
has been adopted. There are more people who want to fish with
rod and reel and about the same number of people who have
permits, and he is all for managing the fishery in the best
interest of all Alaskans and not a particular user group. He
said some consolidation of the drift fleet, and particularly the
setnet fleet, where the number of permits and the amount of gear
in the water is reduced, would provide a better opportunity for
those remaining to harvest a greater number of fish. While he
isn't sure how that is going to work out, a buyback of some sort
is certainly worth considering. [Alaska's] population is now
almost 800,000 with 400,000 living in the Southcentral area,
Matanuska-Susitna Valley, and Anchorage, which is far different
than 50-60 years ago when 100,000 lived there.
CO-CHAIR TARR offered her appreciation for Mr. Johnstone's
answer and said there is no denying that the numbers put on
pressure. She surmised the permit buyback would come through
the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC) and therefore
not a direct Board of Fisheries decision. She asked whether Mr.
Johnstone could confirm or commit that those who lose out would
be made whole in the process so there is some fairness and
equity and not a situation of one group over the others.
MR. JOHNSTONE offered his assurance that he would favor exactly
that. He said he would favor: a consolidation, that somebody
doesn't get erased and is compensated, and anything that would
make it more beneficial for the remaining fishers. Currently a
lot of fishers are dividing up a finite amount of salmon and if
gear could be taken out of the water and permits taken out, it
would benefit everybody that remains. He is all for that and is
all in favor of compensating them.
8:12:24 PM
CHAIR STUTES asked Mr. Johnstone for his views on hatcheries in
the state of Alaska.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded that clearly hatcheries provide a robust
economic benefit and, in his opinion, will be around for years
to come. In his opinion, there is currently insufficient
science and information to say hatcheries are harming wild
stocks. He was gratified to see the way the Board of Fisheries
looked at the issues and put in place a process to review
hatchery performance on a regular basis. That was the intention
from the beginning, but those hatchery meetings didn't take
place. He is not against hatcheries that produce a common
property resource that benefits the commercial sector, so long
as they do not impact wild stocks, and the science is not there
to come to that conclusion yet and may never be.
8:13:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK observed that the Supreme Court of Alaska
reprimand was in the committee packet. He requested Mr.
Johnstone to share what the process was, the recommendation, and
what process it was that he did not follow.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that he helped put in place a hiring and
recruitment process for the coroner. He wasn't satisfied with
the outcome, he continued, so he talked to his boss, [Chief
Justice Moore], and told him he planned on looking for somebody
else. The chief justice recommended a person, and, because he
wanted to get a coroner quickly, he went to the officials he
worked with and asked them about this. A couple of them said it
wouldn't look good and urged him to not go ahead with getting
someone in a hurry. They gave him good advice, but he didn't
follow it. He hired as the coroner this particular person who
he thought was very qualified because he was a former attorney
general, former U.S. attorney, former city attorney for a mayor,
a legislator, and a well-known lawyer. This raised a lot of
complaints and a complaint was made to the Judges Commission,
which held a hearing and he was ultimately reprimanded. He
allowed he was wrong and made a mistake and said he was sorry
for it then and is still sorry for it.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK opined that process and judgment are being
talked about here and particularly judgment by a judge. He
observed the following from the reprimand: Mr. Johnstone was
appointing a new coroner and there was a process for appointing
a new coroner; A person working for Mr. Johnstone, the area
court administrator, came up with a process, advertised, and
laid out the conditions of that; Once the filing deadline was
closed and interviews had taken place, Mr. Johnstone chose not
to select any of the candidates and closed this particular
process; Letters were sent to the applicants saying there would
be a subsequent selection process, which was never spelled out;
Interviews were opened again and Mr. Johnstone's own committee
ranked Mr. Richard McVeigh very low; Mr. Johnstone disregarded
the committee's ranking and offered employment to Mr. McVeigh,
who was a friend of another judge; and Mr. Johnstone offered Mr.
McVeigh a position that was on a temporary permanent basis.
Representative Tuck argued that there is no such thing as a
temporary permanent basis, it is either going to be part-time or
full-time temporary, or part-time or full-time permanent. He
said it looked like Mr. Johnstone did this so Mr. McVeigh
wouldn't lose his retirement benefits while working as the
coroner. Representative Tuck said he has a problem with Mr.
Johnstone saying that this was a small accident, oversight, or
mistake when as a judge Mr. Johnstone is determining right and
wrong with the law. He said judges shouldn't be above the law
either. He noted Mr. Johnstone had counsel from many different
people and a process was in place. Representative Tuck asked
how the committee could have confidence in knowing Mr. Johnstone
would maintain any type of process on the Board of Fisheries and
not just give the committee lip service to the law.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied he could not argue with much of the
aforementioned. He said he didn't mean to minimize it and call
it a small error or mistake as he considers it a significant
mistake and that he did the wrong thing 25 years ago. If it is
to be held against him, then so be it; there isn't much he can
do about and he is still proud of his public service. Judges
sometimes make mistakes on the law and the Court of Appeals and
Supreme Court are devoted to that very possibility. He was
wrong in the hiring and cannot argue with the aforementioned
facts and he takes responsibility.
8:19:50 PM
CHAIR STUTES returned to the topic of Mr. Johnstone having a
hotel room while attending Board of Fisheries meetings in
Anchorage. She inquired whether Mr. Johnstone had said the
Board of Fisheries had suggested it, as opposed to Mr. Johnstone
requesting it.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded no, it was when he asked the question of
what the policy is and was told by a staff member of the Board
of Fisheries that the board would prefer he attend the meetings
and stay in the hotel close to the meetings because of all the
nightly meetings and get-togethers and the meeting of the
stakeholders in the mornings. He recalled that he had said,
Fair enough," and he stayed [in the hotel] in Anchorage. He
found out that the board's executive director is the one who
applied for the waiver and that it was issued for the reason
given.
CHAIR STUTES surmised Mr. Johnstone generated the original
request.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered he didn't request it, he asked what the
policy was and was told that in the past they had waived these
things and they wanted him to attend the meetings and stay in
the hotel, so he told them he would do that. He found out
subsequently that these were requests that were made by the
executive director of the Boards Support Section to the director
of the Division of Administrative Services. He did what he
thought he was supposed to do.
8:21:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired whether there were other members
of the Board of Fisheries at the time Mr. Johnstone was staying
at the Hotel Captain Cook who were also residents of Anchorage
and who also stayed at the hotel versus their own homes.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied there were no other members on the board
who were from Anchorage.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN noted that Mr. Johnstone donated $1,000 to
the Dunleavy for Governor Political Action Committee (PAC). She
asked whether that is Mr. Johnstone's standard level of
political donations made to candidates or whether he was an
enthusiastic supporter of the governor.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he was an enthusiastic supporter of the
governor and is not ashamed of giving that money to support his
candidacy. He said he sometimes supports other candidates, but
this time he chose to put his support behind Governor Dunleavy.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired whether a $1,000 donation is Mr.
Johnstone's typical donation.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered it was a donation to a PAC. He stated
his typical donation to other people running for office runs
between $200 and $500, with $500 the maximum he can contribute
under Alaska law to a campaign itself as opposed to a PAC.
8:23:30 PM
CHAIR STUTES inquired whether Mr. Johnstone thought that that
could be a perceived impropriety.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied not at all, he is entitled to contribute
to a campaign of someone he thinks will do a good job. He said
he imagines he isn't the only one and doesn't think any of the
others would consider it an improper activity because a lot of
people contribute money to a candidate, and he doesn't see the
harm in that.
CHAIR STUTES requested Mr. Johnstone's thoughts on board
generated proposals for the Board of Fisheries.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded that board generated proposals have a
place in the Board of Fisheries process. He stated that while
he was chair, he proposed a policy on board generated proposals,
which he doesn't have in front of him, but which was adopted by
the board. It set forth some sideboards - certain findings -
before a proposal could be generated. While he doesn't remember
what they were, it was along the lines of: there was no other
way to address it, it needed to be addressed in a timely
fashion, it had something to do with conservation, and it had
something to do with an error that was made that could not be
addressed through another process or the regular cycle. Board
generated proposals have a place; they are not a substitute for
some of the things the board does but play an important role.
8:25:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked Mr. Johnstone to explain the role of
the Board of Fisheries in selecting the Alaska Department of
Fish and Game commissioner and what the process would be.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that the Board of Fisheries and Board of
Game meet in a joint meeting after a recruitment process has
been started and names have come in of people who are interested
in the position. He said there is an initial screening and
there are some requirements to begin with, but he isn't familiar
with what they are right now. Then, when people meet the
initial screening requirements, the boards are given names and
they are given the opportunity to be interviewed by the boards.
The boards must agree by a majority vote to interview and then
agree ultimately to submit a name to the governor and then a
selection is made by the governor. Typically, the governor has
already made the appointment and typically the governor knows
the person that he or she wants to be the commissioner. That
person comes to the boards and generally that person is very
well qualified and vetted by the governor ahead of time and that
person gets forwarded. Maybe one, sometimes no other
candidates, will get forwarded.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK inquired whether [the boards] are required
to interview all candidates for the position.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied no, [the boards] are not required to
interview any candidate. He said an initial threshold is that
[the boards] must decide if they want to interview a candidate;
if they do, then they will, and then they will make their
decision. If [the boards] decide not to interview a candidate,
then that is a deal killer for that candidate and that candidate
will not be submitted to the governor.
8:27:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VANCE related she represents all fishermen in her
district, whether they are commercial, sport, subsistence, or
personal use. She stated she must look at this objectively and
not just about one group over another. Many questions are had
about Mr. Johnson's confirmation and ability to adhere to the
public process and there are many concerns about Mr. Johnstone's
influence on the board. In taking away one group over the other
she must resort to someone who will do no harm to any group
because every group must have equity. She asked Mr. Johnstone
what skillset he would bring to the board that would convince
those who are questioning his confirmation that he would be a
positive asset to the board regardless of all the controversy
around his appointment.
MR. JOHNSTONE responded he would bring an experience factor that
he gained over the years as a lawyer, judge, and board member.
He said he understands the process very well now and is
knowledgeable about the fisheries because he reads the thousands
of pages that come to board members prior to a meeting. When he
makes an argument or deliberates, he does it based on facts or
science, not emotion. He then applies the litmus test of
whether it will be a sustainable fishery as the fish come first
in his opinion. He also looks at whether it is something that
is consistent with the Alaska constitution for a common property
resource that is to be managed for the benefit of all Alaskans.
He does the best he can to make the right decision. Sometimes
there are winners and sometimes there are losers. When
allocations must be decided somebody is going to be happy and
somebody is going to be unhappy. As times change and as reasons
change, allocations have changed. If it is wanted to have
somebody who is going to stay with what has been done in the
past and not change in any way regardless of the changed
circumstances, then probably he is not the guy. He makes
decisions based on good facts, he doesn't discriminate, he calls
them as he sees them, and he makes the best decision he can
consistent with what is best for all Alaskans.
8:31:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK asked how many times the Board of Fisheries
meets per year.
MR. JOHNSTONE answered that the board meets about five or six
times a year on average. He explained that sometimes there are
emergency petition meetings and sometimes a joint meeting with
the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council. He further
explained that the board visits only one area or one species
each year, and every three years the board visits all the
fisheries, so there is a three-year cycle for each fishery.
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK offered his understanding that Mr. Johnstone
spends a lot of time traveling outside Alaska. He asked why Mr.
Johnstone desires to serve on the Board of Fisheries given the
commitment for this position.
MR. JOHNSTONE replied the state has been good to him and he
wants to give back. He said he has enjoyed the resources of
Alaska and came from Arizona to Alaska in 1967 because of the
state's resources. The fisheries resource was the main reason
he came to Alaska, as he likes to sport fish and was an avid
commercial fisherman. His wife and children also like to sport
fish. His family does not dipnet. He wants to ensure that this
wonderful resource will be available to future generations. He
likes the public-driven process. It is controversial because
hard decisions are being made and eventually decisions are going
to be made that affect everybody in an adverse way. Some people
have a difficult time making decisions, but he is able to make
decisions and his background suggests he can make decisions and
make hard decisions.
8:33:34 PM
CHAIR STUTES opened public testimony on all four appointees to
the Board of Fisheries.
8:34:10 PM
RON SOMERVILLE, Secretary/Treasurer, Territorial Sportsmen,
testified in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl Johnstone,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said his organization
supports the commercial fisheries and has worked hard with all
the commercial fisheries groups. His group would also like to
say that the common property resources available to the general
public are being strangled in some cases. For example,
something is wrong with the system when the commercial fisheries
take 97 percent of the black cod and the common property users
are disallowed from taking any more than 3 percent. While some
people may be controversial, the balance is extremely important.
8:35:35 PM
BEN MOHR, Executive Director, Kenai River Sportfishing
Association (KRSA), testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said KRSA
works to ensure the long-term health and sustainability of
fishery resources in Alaska. Part of KRSA's work is engaging
with the Board of Fisheries and members of KRSA haven't missed a
meeting in decades. Each of the four appointees is supported by
KRSA because each one would bring to the board a variety of
experiences and perspectives to managing Alaska's fisheries.
The board makeup is important. Balanced decisions that come out
of the board process are made through healthy tension on the
board. Oftentimes when people talk about the commercial seats
and the sport seats it is because people are talking about
balancing the different user groups that are represented. Each
person before the committee this evening and on the board
represents a variety of uses. The commercial seats often begin
their comments by saying they sport fish as well. Folks that
are filling sport fish seats this evening have histories in
commercial fishing. Mr. Johnstone exemplifies the healthy
tension and diversity of user experiences and the ability to
adjudicate different user profiles; KRSA respects his experience
and ability to guide Alaska's fisheries issues in a responsible
way.
8:37:52 PM
REUBEN HANKE testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
finds Mr. Johnstone to be one of the most available board
members. During the breaks Mr. Johnstone walks through the
public seating and makes himself available, which a lot of board
members don't do. Mr. Johnstone is very approachable and takes
time to talk to people. While sitting through testimony in the
Senate the other day he heard a lot of accusations, bullying,
and disrespect and he finds it interesting that someone with
those qualities would have been unanimously voted by that board
into the chair position three times.
8:39:22 PM
FORREST BRADEN, Southeast Alaska Guides Organization (SEAGO),
testified in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl Johnstone,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He read aloud from an
opinion editorial written by Mr. Johnstone in 2016: "Management
and policy decisions should be made based on science and
economics, not politics. Nobody is going away; all have
legitimate concerns. Significant economic value is at stake, it
is time to go back to work. We must team with the legislature
and the Board of Fish in a productive and constructive manner,
agreeing on what is essential to sustain the resource and
determining the needs of others versus wants." Mr. Braden said
it is critical for SEAGO, the people it represents, and the
families and communities that are represented by those
businesses, that there be fair and even-handed representation on
the Board of Fisheries. It is SEAGO's experience that Mr.
Johnstone has been fair. Mr. Johnstone hasn't always come out
in favor of SEAGO's agenda and isn't a blind follower of sport
fish. A lot of positive and very little negative was said about
Mr. Johnstone during his 2012 confirmation.
8:41:35 PM
WILLIAM L. MACKAY, testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
has known Mr. Johnstone for 30 years, both professionally and
personally, and has always found him to be a man of high
integrity. Bringing Mr. Johnstone back to the board would be an
excellent thing to do.
8:42:21 PM
FRANCES LEACH, Executive Director, United Fishermen of Alaska
(UFA), testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone and that UFA was not opposed to the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. She said that in looking
at who supports and who opposes Mr. Johnstone's appointment it
would be easy to conclude that it is commercial against sport.
However, UFA's opposition to Mr. Johnstone has nothing to do
with his representing sport fishermen. It has to do with his
blatantly biased conduct and lack of transparency as a previous
board member. It isn't about UFA not wanting a sport fishing
representative on the board; if it were, UFA would be opposing
the other ones that are being appointed. In his 2017 op-ed, Mr.
Johnstone referred to the commercial fisheries as old and faded.
Commercial fishing taxes contributed $78.3 million to the
state's general fund in 2018, a 19 percent increase from 2017.
The commercial fishing industry is anything but old and fading
and to suggest otherwise shows a deep lack of understanding and
respect for the industry's contributions to the state. These
fish wars will never end if people like Mr. Johnstone are
confirmed and allowed to perpetuate their biases and not be open
to conversations with all user groups concerning Alaska's shared
resources.
8:44:09 PM
LARS STANGELAND testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
has been involved in commercial fishing in Alaska for 48 years.
He has been involved in the Board of Fisheries process and at
those meetings he has had an opportunity to speak with board
members who, in his opinion, were approachable, objective, and
adhered to the directives of the process. On the other hand,
Mr. Johnstone's well-documented bias against the commercial
sector and his unwillingness to interact with stakeholders is a
direct conflict with that process. It is a public process, and
a good process, and a process that must stay intact.
8:45:25 PM
MARK VINSEL testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he is
a roadside sport fisherman and that Juneau has great sport
fisheries for salmon largely because of cooperation between the
sport and commercial sectors. The Douglas Island Pink and Chum,
Inc. (DIPAC) hatchery provides a lot of sport fishing for king
and coho salmon. The Board of Fisheries relies on public
process and it is a great public process that relies on science-
minded board members who are there for the public service. The
concept of pitting user groups against each other that is seen
throughout this whole thing is the wrong way to work for
Alaska's fisheries. It is the road to losing all these
fisheries and, on that basis, he urges Mr. Johnstone is not
confirmed.
8:47:01 PM
KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Fishermen's
Alliance (SEAFA), testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She stated
SEAFA is a multi-gear, multi-species organization mainly in
Southeast Alaska, although it also includes long-line fisheries
throughout the Gulf of Alaska. She said SEAFA has not found Mr.
Johnstone approachable at meetings. One time when she requested
a meeting, she was told Mr. Johnstone didn't need to speak with
her because he already had SEAFA's written testimony. She noted
SEAFA writes many proposals because it is a multi-gear group
and, expecting the opportunity to talk to members, she doesn't
always put everything in SEAFA's comments. So, it is very
discouraging when a board member refuses to spend time talking
because he read the group's testimony. Another example is when
the commercial fishing industry brought up the declining
sablefish resource in Chatham Strait. This resource had been on
decline for several years and there was a growing new user
group. So that the two could be balanced out, SEAFA asked for
reporting and some limits, but Mr. Johnstone told her that as
long as there is a commercial fishery there is no conservation
issue, which she finds to be anti-commercial bias.
8:49:05 PM
JEFFREY BUSHKE testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated Mr.
Johnstone would manage for the benefit of all, has Alaskans
first, exudes confidence, knowledge, trust, commitment, and
fairness, and displays integrity.
8:50:05 PM
CHUCK DERRICK, President, Chitina Dipnetters Association,
testified in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl Johnstone,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He recounted that during
the Senate Resources Standing Committee's Board of Fisheries
confirmation hearing last week several members of the Cordova
commercial fleet took it as an opportunity to berate Mr.
Johnstone for his past performance as chair of the Board of
Fisheries, and specifically for passage of the Chitina
Dipnetters Association's proposal to increase the salmon bag
limit for its fishery. He said he applauds the 2014 Board of
Fisheries, with Mr. Johnstone as chair, for approving this
proposal. The proposal was supported by ADF&G for its ability
to sync the bag limits of the Southcentral personal use (PU)
dipnet fishery with the Chitina PU dipnet fishery, eliminating
confusion for dipnetters to partake in either fishery. The
Cordova commercial fleet chose this proposal as their reason to
not confirm Mr. Johnstone.
8:52:54 PM
CHIP TREINEN, testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He
recalled Mr. Johnstone's testimony claiming to be a good
advocate and agreed with Mr. Johnstone's self-assessment.
However, he continued, he is a commercial fisherman and Mr.
Johnstone comes with an agenda and that agenda does not favor
commercial fishermen. He urged Mr. Johnstone not be confirmed.
8:53:52 PM
MARVIN PETERS testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to
the Board of Fisheries. He said he has 35 years' experience in
the advisory committee systems. He has seen and dealt with many
board members, probably every one of which was more conducive to
argument and evidence than Mr. Johnstone, but he has never run
across a board member who could bully a meeting and intimidate
other members quite the way Mr. Johnstone could. Mr. Johnstone
was a terrible board member.
8:55:05 PM
ROSELEEN MOORE testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said
Mr. Johnstone is very biased against commercial fishermen. She
grew up on a setnet site in False Pass and spent 35 years at
Bristol Bay. Her family owns a boatyard in Homer and their
livelihood along with the people of rural coastal Alaska depends
on commercial fishing. Commercial fishing is the largest
employer in the state and that needs to be considered, but Mr.
Johnstone isn't willing to consider that.
8:55:45 PM
FRED STAGER testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he has
spent 34 years as a commercial salmon seiner and resident of
Kodiak Island. In his time, he has seen a combination of market
forces and Board of Fisheries decisions cut in half the
participation in his salmon seine fishery. He stated his belief
that Mr. Johnstone believes this is a good start. Mr.
Johnstone's patronizing, thinly veiled contempt for commercial
fishermen, and his work towards eliminating them whenever
possible, make his confirmation unfair, ill advised, and a
danger to commercial fisheries throughout the state and in the
community of Kodiak in particular.
8:56:48 PM
SALUA STAGER testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said she
was raised on Whale Island outside of Kodiak, is a third-
generation commercial fisher, and has a lifetime of Kodiak
commercial fishing experience. Currently, she is well into her
second career as a health care worker and is seeing the negative
side effects of the reduced fishing opportunity for the small
boat fleet and effects on the community of drugs, alcohol, and
suicide going up.
8:57:44 PM
JULIE DOLL testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She noted she
is with the Chitina Dipnetters Association, the Alaska Outdoor
Council, and the Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association. She
said Mr. Johnstone's past Board of Fisheries actions prove he
will provide balance and fairness to the board. Board of
Fisheries meetings may last a week or more and personal use and
sport proposals are usually addressed first. Often commercial
interests would wait until the end of a meeting to call for
reconsideration of an approved personal use or sport proposal
after the sport and personal use representatives had returned
home, leaving no one to defend the original passage. Under his
chairmanship, Mr. Johnstone amended this procedure to place a
24-hour limit for reconsideration after passage of a proposal,
giving user groups a security that days later their work getting
a proposal passed could not be jeopardized.
8:58:50 PM
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Fairbanks Fish and Game Advisory Committee,
testified in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl Johnstone,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He related that the
advisory committee met on 4/10/19 and unanimously supported all
the governor's appointees. He noted he served three terms on
the Board of Fisheries and stated that the same people opposing
Mr. Johnstone opposed him. These people don't like the old
Marine Corps adage of five Ps prior planning prevents poor
performance. They do not want an effective board member that
believes in the constitution, the statutes, and the regulations
and in applying them in a fair and even manner.
9:00:08 PM
NORMAN VAN VACTOR testified in support of the confirmation of
Israel Payton and in opposition to the confirmations of Marit
Carlson-Van Dort and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of
Fisheries. He said he has long been able to say he is proud of
the way the State of Alaska has gone about overseeing and
ultimately managing its vast and incredible seafood resources.
Alaska's previous governors saw the value in having
representation from diverse user groups as well as from
different competing regions. While not perfect, it has provided
for a balance of views and a public process that has been open
and fair. He is concerned, however, that in one fell swoop with
a few of these appointments Governor Dunleavy will upend what
has been a fair and equitable system. Mr. Payton is passionate
about sport fishing but is open and inquisitive and very
knowledgeable about subsistence and commercial interests and for
that reason he supports Mr. Payton's re-appointment. Mr.
Johnstone's biases are well known from the track record of his
previous tenure on the board and he opposes Mr. Johnstone's
nomination. He also opposes Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's nomination.
If Mr. Johnstone and Ms. Carlson-Van Dort's nominations move
forward, the board will lose much credibility in rural Alaska
fishing communities. "Do we really want the fish wars of Cook
Inlet to now taint the rivers and streams of the likes of
Bristol Bay?" he asked. He requested the committee to do what
is right for Alaska and its fisheries.
9:01:48 PM
DANIELLE RINGER testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone and in support of the confirmation of Israel
Payton, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. She noted she and
her husband run a commercial fishing operation. She said Mr.
Johnstone has been discriminatory toward commercial fishermen in
the past and she is concerned he will continue this
inappropriately divisive and biased behavior if appointed again.
Alaskans need and deserve a balanced board comprised of
individuals who value the importance of various fishing ways of
life in the state. Commercial fishing represents the lifeblood
of many communities and families, and she would like to see a
fisheries management leader who recognizes this, like nominee
Israel Payton. She grew up dipnetting on the Kenai and on
Kachemak Bay and truly appreciates personal use fisheries, but
not at the hostile expense of commercial fishing livelihoods.
Alaska's relationship to fish may look different for different
folks throughout the state by gear type and user group, but at
the core everyone's values are very similar, and people don't
need to be pitted against each other. Mr. Johnstone is not the
appropriate person to be filling a leadership role.
9:03:11 PM
CRAIG DEHART testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he owns
a salmon seiner in Kodiak and urged that Mr. Johnstone is not
confirmed.
9:03:39 PM
OLIVER HOLM testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said the
Board of Fisheries is relied upon to have seven members who are
open-minded and have different perspectives; it is sort of like
a court. For a former judge to put out an op-ed in the way Mr.
Johnstone did really calls into question whether commercial
fishermen as rural residents would get a fair hearing. Mr.
Johnstone is wrong about farmed salmon putting commercial
fishermen out of business. His business survived [past low
prices] and now there is a much better market and the commercial
industry is successfully competing with farmed salmon.
Commercial fishermen put food on people's tables, and it is an
industry that is not likely to go away.
9:04:55 PM
ANDREW COUCH testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
a guide and sport fishing business owner. He said the
Matanuska-Susitna Valley, northern Cook Inlet, has more stocks
of concern than any area of the state. He supports Mr.
Johnstone because as chair of the board Mr. Johnstone put the
stock of concern discussion at the start of the Upper Cook Inlet
meeting because this area was, and still is, having great
problems. That allowed some decisions to be made that helped
the stocks. At the northern end of the inlet the fishing
opportunities are much different than they are in Homer, much
more restrictive, and much less harvest allowed for commercial,
sport, and personal use, and some subsistence fishing is limited
too. Being on the board is a balancing act and members must be
able to consider different user groups. Mr. Johnstone is a good
advocate for sport fishing groups.
9:06:56 PM
EARL LACKEY testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
with the Alaska Outdoor Council and Mat-Valley Sportsmen. He
said that if all user groups are going to be represented then
all four nominations should be accepted.
9:07:41 PM
REED MORISKY testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated that
during Mr. Johnstone's time on the board, particularly as chair,
he proved to be a valued mentor to all members. Mr. Johnstone
promoted and maintained amiable and cordial relationships with
board members, the department, and the public.
9:08:24 PM
ROB BOYER testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said he has
listened to Board of Fisheries meetings and Mr. Johnstone was
articulate and understanding of the different issues. He finds
it curious that all those who opposed Mr. Johnstone are
commercial fishermen. He doesn't think Mr. Johnstone is trying
to end commercial fishing in any way. In regard to attacking
Mr. Johnstone on an op-ed piece about one segment, he said the
majority of Alaskans are those 400,000 in that area that use
that personal use fishery, as opposed to a very small group of
commercial fishermen with a lot of lobbyists and money behind
them and who continually promote an agenda. The constituents of
the committees' members drive to the Kenai River to find that
commercial fishing has been open for two weeks and the fish have
been hammered. The fish have a chance once they get in the
river, but they don't have a chance in the [commercial] nets
that have cut off the whole fishery coming back. He encouraged
the committee to confirm all four appointees.
9:09:44 PM
RAYMOND NESBETT, Esq., testified in support of the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He
noted he is an attorney and a life-long Alaskans with "no dog in
the fight" between the commercial and recreational fishery
interests; he has participated in both. He said Mr. Johnstone
demonstrated during his previous board tenure that he was one of
the board's hardest working and most knowledgeable members.
During last week's Senate Resources Standing Committee hearing,
it was clear that one user group is opposing Mr. Johnstone by
means of a well-orchestrated campaign attacking his motives and
character, not his lack of competency and hard work. These
personal attacks should be rejected. Attacks on the messenger
when one doesn't like the message should have no place in the
management of Alaska's most important resource. He urged the
committee to do what is right for the state and the resource and
confirm Mr. Johnstone's appointment.
9:11:02 PM
SUSAN DOHERTY, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Seiners
Association (SEAS), testified in opposition to the confirmations
of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and
Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. She
stated that Alaska is bigger than Cook Inlet and the Matanuska-
Susitna Valley. There are fisheries in Southeast Alaska, and
they should not be controlled by what is happening in Cook
Inlet. The governor's [choice of] appointees totally disregards
Robert Ruffner who has exhibited all the attributes that a Board
of Fisheries member should have. She only has history with Mr.
Payton, who would be fine if the other candidates didn't have
the same demonstrated interest singularly for subsistence that
Mr. Payton has. Therefore, SEAS is opposed to the whole slate
of appointees. The slate of candidates should be balanced to
represent the entire state and all the interests, including
Southeast Alaska, not only subsistence and Cook Inlet.
9:12:54 PM
JOE MERTISHEV, Board Member, Kachemak Bay Fisheries Association,
testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl Johnstone,
appointee to the Board of Fisheries.
9:13:48 PM
BURT BOMHOFF testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he has
known Mr. Johnstone for 45 years, and Mr. Johnstone is a man of
integrity, judgment, and fairness, and whose history proves
that. While Mr. Johnstone has a strong personality that may be
intimidating for some, he is always fair. Mr. Johnstone's court
service proves that, as does his prior service on the Board of
Fisheries where he was unanimously elected three times as
chairman. Mr. Johnstone wouldn't have been elected chair if the
other board members didn't trust his impartiality, judgment, and
fairness. Mr. Johnstone is a great man and a great addition to
the board.
9:14:51 PM
TED CROOKSTON testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He cited
his own experience with the Board of Fisheries process and said
Mr. Johnstone is not the right man for the job. There are valid
reasons for why this much controversy is being raised; it isn't
just the commercial fishermen making a fuss over nothing. He
urged that Mr. Johnstone's name is not advanced for a vote.
9:15:37 PM
CLAY BEZENEK testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to the
Board of Fisheries. He said this is his first time in 37 years
of commercial fishing that he has spoken against a Board of
Fisheries nominee. Mr. Johnstone is a brash person and not
because of his integrity. Mr. Johnstone is against commercial
fishing and has not been fair. He said the other nominees seem
to be pretty good and workable appointees and he looks forward
to participating in the system with them.
9:17:00 PM
SHAWNA WILLIAMS BUCHUAN testified in opposition to the
confirmation of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of
Fisheries. She stated that Mr. Johnstone has already had an
opportunity to serve on the Board of Fisheries and during that
time he proved to be divisive. He used bullying and strong-arm
tactics to intimidate the public, department staff, and other
board members to further his own agenda. Mr. Johnstone appears
to have no respect for the process. She said that on 4/10/19,
Mr. Johnstone stated to the Senate Resources Standing Committee:
"I suppose I was as assertive as any. I think I was pretty
effective in using my persuasive and my advocacy skills in
getting people to come around to my way of thinking." She
maintained that here he admits the coercion and prides himself
in being aggressively persuasive. This is not conducive to the
board process, especially when said person claims to want to be
a mentor to new [board] members. Over the last week during
phone conversations, she encountered five people who did not
want to testify or come out on public record against Mr.
Johnstone for fear of retribution for doing so.
9:18:44 PM
ERIC SPADE testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said it's
high time to have someone advocating for sport fishermen and
personal use. The board and ADF&G have been wiping out the
people in Upper Cook Inlet. The total mismanagement around the
state is exemplified in Cook Inlet. Someone needs to be on the
board who is not run by the commercial fishermen. Commercial
fishermen have a stranglehold on fish allocation and that needs
to be broken up and the resources brought to the people.
9:20:08 PM
ANDREW SZCZESNY testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said his
first Board of Fisheries meeting was 25 years ago and six of the
seven board members were commercial fishermen. So, this is the
controversy that is being heard right now - suddenly there is a
little bit of balance and someone who is strong for sport
fishing - and everybody is freaked out. There are losers and
there are winners in every type of meeting all the time. Mr.
Johnstone is the smartest prepared member that he has seen in 25
years. During his own 40 years in Alaska there have been a lot
of changes in the state's fisheries and a board member like Mr.
Johnstone is needed to take the state into the future.
9:21:14 PM
STEVE MCCLURE testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
has attended every Board of Fisheries meeting since 1999. Mr.
Johnstone was the one board member that he could speak to, who
would listen, who would consider what he was saying, who would
look at all other information before him, and who would then
come to his own conclusion on which way to vote on each issue.
He supports Mr. Johnstone for looking at all information and
trying to be a fair and reasonable board member.
9:21:53 PM
KAREN MCGAHAN testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She stated
she has been a commercial drift fisher and currently she is an
Upper Cook Inlet setnetter and an enthusiastic sport fisherman.
When politicians are running for office, they almost always
agree that fisheries should be run by scientific management
decisions and not by political decisions. However, there is an
actual scientist on the Board of Fisheries who has not been re-
appointed and who lives in the area most utilized in the whole
state, and that is Robert Ruffner. The governor seems to be
abdicating his responsibility to provide a balanced Board of
Fisheries and is instead granting favors with these appointments
to campaign insiders and lobbyists. Mr. Johnstone has a record
from his previous tenure on the board and is absolutely in
lockstep with the Kenai River Sportfishing Association and has
written opinion pieces that verify this. Bob Penney, founder of
the association, was one of the largest contributors to Governor
Dunleavy's campaign. Committee members may remember Mr.
Johnstone's poor decisions and heavy-handed directives as a
Board of Fisheries member as well as poor personal decisions in
taking per diem while returning from his place in Prescott,
Arizona, to stay in the hotel rather than plowing his own
driveway. The type of public servant who does these things is
one who hasn't been elected and has some poor moral judgment
problems. These appointees may be nice people in other realms,
but with Mr. Johnstone's appointment to the board, commercial
fishermen in Upper Cook Inlet will be facing another round of
punitive, politically motivated, and financially devastating
regulations.
9:23:47 PM
RICHARD MCGAHAN testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
began fishing on Salamatof Beach in 1955, is still there at 82
years old, and now the fifth-generation fishes on that beach,
when they can fish. In 2012 there was one day of fishing and in
2018 there was three days. How can a person make a living off a
fishery with someone running the board like Mr. Johnstone, who
won't even talk to the public? A proposal can be made, it goes
to the board in the afternoon, that night the board works it
over, and the next day it is unrecognizable. He requested that
Mr. Johnstone be replaced with Mr. Ruffner so there will be some
representation for commercial fishermen.
9:24:49 PM
BRIAN MERRITT testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
is a commercial fisherman, so he is one of the old and faded.
When he started in the gillnet fishery 20 years ago, he paid
$30,000 for his permit and now it is worth $90,000. He was
getting 11 cents a pound for chums and now he is getting 90
cents, king salmon was $3 a pound and this last winter he got
$13. Therefore, Mr. Johnstone is not as knowledgeable as he
purports himself to be.
9:25:39 PM
WINSTON DAVIES testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
is opposed to Mr. Johnstone's appointment due to Mr. Johnstone's
statements about the viability of commercial fishing and that it
is dated, and because of Mr. Johnstone's bias against commercial
fishing and lack of transparency. Mr. Davies stated that
commercial fishing pays his bills so he can sport fish,
subsistence fish, and do personal use.
9:26:15 PM
TIMOTHY MOORE testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he is an avid sport fisherman and his family is active in
personal use fishing, but he makes his living commercial
fishing. He has been a part of the Board of Fisheries process
for over 35 years. He urged that Mr. Johnstone not be confirmed
mainly because in all of the tough allocation decisions that the
Board of Fisheries makes the science must be considered first
and he has witnessed Mr. Johnstone's disrespect of the
department, which at times caused the meetings to be stopped.
If the department doesn't follow along with the decisions that
Mr. Johnstone sees fit, he calls them out on it and that is not
what is needed for a fair and balanced board.
9:27:42 PM
JAMES HONKOLA testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said
Mr. Johnstone's past service and published opinion pieces have
shown bias favoring sport fishing and a lack of science-based
decision-making. The Board of Fisheries needs to be balanced in
order to act effectively and fairly regarding the many proposals
that can pit Alaskans and the various user groups against each
other. Mr. Johnstone's appointment would tip the ratio of board
members representing one user group on the board.
9:28:25 PM
JOHN RENNER, Cordova District Fishermen United (CDFU), testified
in opposition to the confirmation of Karl Johnstone, appointee
to the Board of Fisheries. He noted CDFU is comprised of
multiple gear groups gillnetters, setnetters, and salmon
seiners. He said he personally has been involved in the Board
of Fisheries process for over 35 years, many of them as chair of
a fish and game advisory committee (AC). He has had many
dealings with Mr. Johnstone and found him to ask for opposing
science when his opinion wasn't justified by the department's
science. He said the reason for having to come up with some
parameters on board generated proposals was because under Mr.
Johnstone's tenure the board "went crazy" with board generated
proposals for everything - it wasn't by choice that the chairman
did that. Coastal Alaska depends on these salmon fisheries and
is scared to death with these appointments to the Board of
Fisheries. The balance will sway in the favor of sport and
guided sport fishing. This is a pressure operation by Kenai
River Sportfishing Association and hopefully legislators won't
let it happen.
9:30:17 PM
MICHAEL MICKELSON testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he is a commercial and subsistence fisherman who grew up working
in his family's bird watching and sport fishing lodge near
Cordova. He has been to every Board of Fisheries meeting for
his region as well as several statewide meetings while Mr.
Johnstone was on the board. He has witnessed Mr. Johnstone's
approach with fellow board members, the department, and the
public. Mr. Johnstone was very forceful at times, aggressive,
and blatantly opposed to the commercial fishery. Board members
who are as nonpartisan as possible are needed. As a young
commercial fisherman small business owner, he must point out
that commercial fisheries are the lifeblood of Coastal Alaska.
Prince William Sound has a rapidly growing contingent of
fishermen and women who are under 40 and they have a vested
interest in [Alaska's] fisheries for their generation and future
generations. He supports the Board of Fisheries process, but
Mr. Johnstone has already served. He urged that room be made on
the board for qualified Alaska residents.
9:31:20 PM
CHELSEA HAISMAN testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said
she is a commercial fisherman in Area E. For full disclosure
she noted she is the executive director of Cordova District
Fishermen United but is speaking today on her own behalf as a
commercial and recreational fisher. She is concerned with Mr.
Johnstone's prior history on the board and public writings that
speak out against the commercial fishing industry. She
questions Mr. Johnstone's ability to remain neutral when making
difficult allocation decisions. She is also concerned that his
appointment has drawn a great deal of controversy, which in and
of itself shows Mr. Johnstone's divisive nature. To confirm a
candidate who is so divisive, and whose ethics and transparency
have been called into question repeatedly over the years, is
shortsighted and erodes public trust. Alaskans deserve a Board
of Fisheries that is reflective of a variety of user groups and
communities. While half of Alaskan's residents live in the
Anchorage/Matanuska-Susitna area, the other half lives in the
rest of the state. She is concerned the board will be more
heavily towards urban board members residing in Anchorage,
Matanuska-Susitna, Eagle River, and Fairbanks and very little
representation from rural Alaska.
9:33:05 PM
MICHAEL BABIC testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he is a fourth-generation commercial fisherman. Putting Mr.
Johnstone on the board would drastically erode the trust in the
public process of the board.
9:33:36 PM
TRACY NUZZI testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said she is
a subsistence born user and a commercial fisherman. She
appreciates that the state has invested quite a bit of money
over the past decade in mentorship to help the graying of the
fleet by getting the next generation into commercial fisheries
through the state loan program and putting on the Young
Fishermen's Summit, which have helped her and her peers get into
the fishery and try to make a living. She doesn't trust that
Mr. Johnstone has her future in mind when he talks about changes
to the fishery. During her first Board of Fisheries meeting,
Chair Johnstone's first comments were to highlight the past
year's growth in income of the fishermen, he didn't talk about a
five, ten, or twenty-year average. She perceived this as a
snarky comment on one of the Copper River's record runs. Mr.
Johnstone didn't talk about the benefits to the other user
groups or the fluctuations that fishermen experience over the
years. She urged committee members to consider the state's work
to help her and her peers continue making a living in Alaska's
coastal communities.
9:35:11 PM
MAX WORHATCH, Executive Director, United Southeast Alaska
Gillnetters (USAG), testified in opposition to the confirmation
of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He
noted he is a commercial fisherman and a member of the
Petersburg Fish and Game Advisory Committee. He said Mr.
Johnstone's well-documented history regarding allocation between
sport and commercial fish is very threatening to the livelihoods
of USAG's members. His organization has witnessed Mr.
Johnstone's lack of accessibility to stakeholders as well as Mr.
Johnstone's inability or indifference in regarding a proposal on
its merit. That Mr. Johnstone's confirmation is so polarized
should be sending a clear message that Mr. Johnstone is not
viewed as a fair, considerate, or good choice to the board by
many of the people who regularly take part in the Board of
Fisheries process. As a volunteer of an advisory committee he
is appalled at Mr. Johnstone's appointment.
9:36:16 PM
ERIC GRUNDBERG testified in opposition to the confirmations of
Karl Johnstone and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to the
Board of Fisheries. He noted he is representing himself as is a
small business owner and that he serves on the Petersburg Fish
and Game Advisory Committee. He maintained that Mr. Johnstone
and Ms. Carlson-Van Dort are "KRSA stooges."
9:36:47 PM
DAVE THYNES testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
a sports, personal use, subsistence, and second-generation
commercial fisherman. He said Mr. Johnstone states he is in
favor of new commercial fisheries while projecting the demise of
commercial fishermen's livelihoods. He urged that Mr. Johnstone
is not confirmed.
9:37:37 PM
MARY EVENS testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. She said Mr.
Johnstone has stated that commercial fishing is an old and
fading business and that the state should no longer manage in
its interest and should be faded out. People have fought hard
to develop management programs for a sustainable industry. She
grew up in the industry and Mr. Johnstone's agenda [would end]
her future as a young Alaskan commercial fisher as well as the
way of life of countless rural Alaskans.
9:38:21 PM
CHAD HEWITT testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
operates three different lodges and supports all four
appointees. Balance is needed on the board given that a lot of
tough decisions need to be made. He has known and respected Mr.
Johnstone for about 15 years, a man of integrity and strong
will. This isn't a sport fish-commercial fish situation; it is
a fish situation. Management is needed so Alaska doesn't end up
like Oregon, Washington, or California. Mr. Johnstone's
appointment will bring balance.
9:39:56 PM
NATHAN GRUENING testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he is a commercial fisherman and Mr. Johnstone's opinion pieces
show Mr. Johnstone's blatant anti-commercial fishing stances.
Mr. Johnstone's vision of the future does not include commercial
fishing. It is one thing to be pro sport fishing and another
thing entirely to be anti-commercial fishing. Mr. Johnstone has
a long history of being an impediment to the public process that
commercial fishermen feel is important for mutual respect and a
spirit of cooperation between all of Alaska's user groups.
9:40:52 PM
CHRIS CLEMENS testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he grew up commercial fishing in Kodiak with his father.
Appointing a person who lives half the year in Arizona isn't
wise; a person should live in Alaska full time to have the state
and its best interests come first. He recalled Mr. Johnstone
while last serving on the board as saying, "Science doesn't
matter; it's apologist politics." He said people who believe
such things have no business making large decisions on a
resource that is managed heavily on science-based data.
9:42:09 PM
PAUL HOLLAND testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
would call Mr. Johnstone's opinion piece far reaching, bold, and
looking at the facts, even if the facts scare a person.
Commercial fishers calling Mr. Johnstone biased is a bit like
the pot calling the kettle black. During his past 20 years of
attending Board of Fisheries meetings his experience with
commercial fish board members is their cross-eyed focus on only
their interest. He maintained that 35,000 dipnetters and their
families found Mr. Johnstone fair and open minded, which is not
something commercial fish board members have ever been accused
of.
9:43:12 PM
BIRCH YUKNIS, DDS, testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
has commercial, subsistence, personal use, and sport fished
across the state, as well as shell fished. He has worked
personally with Mr. Payton on the Matanuska Valley Fish and Game
Advisory Committee and Mr. Payton has been, and will continue to
be, an exemplary Board of Fisheries member. Mr. Johnstone
weighs the facts and makes decisions based on those facts; some
people don't like it when the facts change the status quo. Mr.
Johnstone has been in Alaska a long time and therefore has
ruffled a few feathers. All four appointees will look at issues
with an open mind and consider all users of the resources.
9:44:28 PM
BILL IVERSON testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
president of the Alaska Outdoor Council and that he lives a
subsistence lifestyle getting moose, caribou, and fish using a
normal hunting and fishing license. In his younger years he was
a commercial fisherman out of Bristol Bay, so he understands the
mindset. The Board of Fisheries has been dominated by the
commercial industry for years and during their rule the in-river
opportunities have continued to get worse. It is not wanted for
the commercial fishing industry to go away, but a fair allotment
to in-river fishers and protection of future stocks is wanted.
A return to a balanced board is needed, which it hasn't been for
a long time. Mr. Johnstone is being unfairly targeted by the
well-orchestrated and biased commercial industry because he
won't always vote their way. Something needs to change, as the
way of doing things is not working. Although the commercial
industry has value and no one wants it to go away, the value to
thousands of Alaskans and to the huge tourist industry far away
gives such preference to this group. The return on investment
does not make sense. Although the commercial appointed board
members talk about being nonpartisan, they never have been.
Confirming all four nominees would restore balance to all the
user groups.
9:46:14 PM
JACK OLIVE testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said part of
being an Alaskan is catching fish and salmon, both commercially
and sport fishing. Salmon are just a commodity to commercial
fishermen and eating salmon and catching salmon are part of what
it's like to be Alaskan. What is one king salmon worth to a
commercial fisherman compared to a kid who catches it with a rod
and reel? Fishing is closed now in Upper Cook Inlet where
400,000 people live and where only 2 percent of the commercial
catch is generated. Someone like Mr. Johnstone is needed on the
Board of Fisheries. For too long commercial fishers have ruled
the roost. He urged Mr. Johnstone's confirmation.
9:47:52 PM
GREG BRUSH testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated his
belief that each nominee will remain open minded and objective,
putting the sustainability of the fish first, but also equally
representing all the users throughout their terms on what would,
could, and should be called a fair and balanced board. After
all these years it saddens him somewhat that the allocation tug
of war in Cook Inlet never seems to wane, usually at expense of
the fish. Tonight, he hasn't heard one commercial fisher
comment on sustainability or on conservation, which is sad. But
he has heard Mr. Johnstone bring it up tonight. It is
interesting to note that Mr. Johnstone has come under fire by
one user group despite his proven track record. It is time to
move forward. He urged the confirmation of the nominees to
ensure fish for the future for all users.
9:49:11 PM
KENT HUFF testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
a member of the Charter Halibut Management Committee for
Southeast Alaska and a lodge owner. Having researched the
proposed members he is convinced that all four would be
excellent choices for the Board of Fisheries. The four proposed
members would bring experience in the commercial seining sector,
conservation and fishery science, commercial fishing, and law.
With two of the proposed members having served on the Board of
Fisheries in the past, these proposed members make a great
choice for the board.
9:50:21 PM
MIKE SZYMANSKI testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he is
a former state senator and has worked in and around commercial
fisheries since getting out of the legislature 30 years ago,
both at the Board of Fisheries and the [North Pacific] Fisheries
Management Council. In reviewing the public records and
comments related to Mr. Johnstone, he finds them to be totally
inconsistent with his personal interaction with Mr. Johnstone
and with Mr. Johnstone's past performance on the Board of
Fisheries. Mr. Johnstone is conscientious, well prepared,
approachable, and listens like a former judge would listen. Mr.
Johnstone's experience is valuable and needed on the board
because there are going to be some major issues associated with
state and federal fisheries. Mr. Johnstone will be a board
member who can deal with parallel fishery issues. While Mr.
Johnstone has made some people angry, he has a strong commitment
to protecting Alaska's fishery resources and maintaining a
sustainable fishery into the future for future generations.
9:52:23 PM
LINDA BEHNKEN, Executive Director, Alaska Longline Fishermen's
Association, testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone and in support of the confirmations of Israel Payton,
Gerad Godfrey, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort, appointees to the
Board of Fisheries. She said the association's members live up
and down Alaska's coast and are committed to sustainable
fisheries, thriving communities, and science-based management.
She served nine years on the North Pacific Fisheries Management
Council, has been involved in fisheries management for almost 30
years in Alaska, has been involved in the Board of Fisheries
process, and served on the International Pacific Halibut
Commission. Mr. Johnstone is the first candidate against which
she has ever testified, and she takes that seriously. The
association's experience working with Mr. Johnstone is that he
does not have a deep commitment to science-based management that
is the association's guiding principle. Mr. Johnstone has also
been willing to disregard the impacts to coastal communities and
the people who are most affected by the decisions that are being
made. Right now, Alaska's fisheries face big challenges with
climate change and ocean acidification. Managers and
policymakers are needed who are willing to work together to take
care of the resource and to pull people together to find
solutions. Mr. Johnstone is divisive, and the association
cannot support him.
9:54:16 PM
KURT WHITEHEAD testified in support of the confirmation of
Israel Payton, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
and his wife operate a sport fishing and hunting lodge. He has
known Mr. Payton since about 1997, professionally and
personally, and Mr. Payton has great ethics, is involved,
objective, and is pro-Alaskan with no dog in the fight.
9:55:06 PM
JOE HINTON testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
has fished off the Alaska Peninsula for the last 32 years. The
appointment of Mr. Johnstone is very far reaching because Mr.
Johnstone has a solid history of being difficult in dealing with
the public, as well as having a bad relationship with ADF&G.
Mr. Johnstone is very unapproachable to talk with at the board
meetings and seems to have his mind made up before testimonies
are even started. A full-time Alaskan is needed, not one who
flies up from the golf course in Arizona.
9:56:23 PM
VICKY JO KENNEDY, Fish Watch, testified in opposition to the
confirmation of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of
Fisheries. She said she started the Fish Watch organization.
She related that she approached Mr. Johnstone several years back
about the Department of Defense (DOD) having its war exercises
in the Gulf of Alaska between Cordova and Kodiak and Mr.
Johnstone didn't see that there was any problem with it. She
told Mr. Johnstone that it was proving it was a problem. Mr.
Johnstone supported the war games and they are slated to start
again this May. Mr. Johnstone thinks the war games are okay,
but they aren't 12 whales washed up on Kodiak two years ago
when the war games were held. The war games are right in the
middle of salmon season when everything is swarming out in the
gulf. Mr. Johnstone is a no-go.
9:57:53 PM
RICHARD YAMADA, Alaska Tribal Association, testified in support
of the confirmations of Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit
Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl Johnstone, appointees to the Board of
Fisheries. He said he was surprised when he heard about the
backlash on Mr. Johnstone's appointment. He watched Mr.
Johnstone during his first four years on the board, which was
during the fish wars, and Mr. Johnstone was always fair.
Members of the board take a lot of bullets and there are not
always winners and always some losers. Mr. Johnstone supports
sustainable fisheries and so the association supports his
appointment.
9:59:05 PM
NANCY HILLSTRAND testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. She said
adding these four appointees to the board will create a balance
of expertise and experience critical to the difficult issues.
Currently on the board are two commercial fishers and one sport
and subsistence, so these appointees will add a good mix and
balance to the board. The Board of Fisheries has been in Alaska
since 1949 and has always been contentious. It is important
that these issues are debated because these four people can
uphold the intention of democracy. The most important thing is
to fight for the fish. She urged the four appointees be
confirmed and allowed to make the hard decisions.
10:00:17 PM
ROBERT PENNEY testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He noted he
sent a letter to each legislator in support of Mr. Johnstone.
He said Mr. Johnstone is the most qualified person in the state
to serve on the Board of Fisheries. He has known Mr. Johnstone
for 45 years when Mr. Johnstone was his attorney and then
watched Mr. Johnstone become a judge. He cannot believe there
aren't more people thanking Mr. Johnstone for taking the time
out of his life to do what he is doing. Mr. Penney noted he and
his wife own a large percentage of Trapper's Creek Smoking
Company, which buys more king salmon than any other company in
Alaska. In 2018 the company bought 1.2 million pounds of king
and 800,000 pounds of sockeye. He supports sport and commercial
fishing, as the company would be out of business without it.
But the balance in Cook Inlet between sport fishing and
commercial must be turned around, it is unfair; there are 60
licensed anglers in Southcentral Alaska to one commercial
license. The people want to have their share. He encouraged
the committee to endorse all four appointees.
10:02:10 PM
GEORGE PIERCE testified in opposition to the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He praised the
committee's vetting of the appointees and asked why anyone
without a science or biology background would be appointed to
the board. He said the board is being stacked with unqualified
appointees; the nominees are for special interest groups, not
Alaskans. Scientists and biologists are needed, people who know
science. This board is bad for Alaskans and these appointees
are bad choices. Robert Ruffner, a scientist, should be put
back on the board. A change is needed, not the same good old
boys. Pebble Mine advocates are not wanted. One appointee is
calling in from Arizona to be on the board; Mr. Johnstone is too
one sided and is not wanted back.
10:04:00 PM
JOHN WHISSEL, Native Village of Eyak, testified in opposition to
the confirmation of Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of
Fisheries. He offered his appreciation for how difficult it is
to fill positions on the Board of Fisheries. He said it is
critical to use scientific evidence. The Native Village of Eyak
is not a commercial fishing enterprise, he noted, and supports
sustainable fisheries for all user groups. The village spends
lots of time and energy to collect additional data to supplement
what ADF&G collects on its own for better management of the
fisheries. Mr. Johnstone does not believe in science and does
not use science to make his decisions, which is unacceptable.
Mr. Johnstone is openly dismissive of science and that cannot be
part of the decision-making body that governs Alaska's
fisheries.
10:05:26 PM
ANDY HALL, President, Kenai Peninsula Fishermen's Association,
testified in opposition to the confirmation of Karl Johnstone,
appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he is a
setnetter and the association represents setnetters in Cook
Inlet. He offered his hope that the committees will read, or
have already read, the two email messages he sent earlier. He
was nervous about sending them for fear of retaliation from Mr.
Johnstone. Mr. Johnstone lacks impartiality and lacks the
demeanor necessary to serve on this board and effectively
interact with the public.
10:06:37 PM
KASEY LOOMIS testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. She noted she
is the secretary/treasurer of the Kenai River Professional Guide
Association. She said she researched the opinions of business
owners and fellow guides regarding Mr. Johnstone and found that
Mr. Johnstone was a fair and experienced board member. Mr.
Johnstone will be an asset to the board as well as being a fair,
effective, and experienced board member for the maximum benefit
of all Alaskans.
10:07:40 PM
RAY DEBARDELABEN, President, Kenai River Professional Guide
Association, testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said he is
speaking for the association in support of all four appointees.
From his 24 years of guiding he thinks this will provide a
balanced board and provide an opportunity for all Alaskans to
benefit from the state's fisheries.
10:08:37 PM
PAUL SHADURA II testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He
recounted a 2014 Cook Inlet regulatory meeting in which, well
into the meeting process, a board member proposal by Mr.
Johnstone was submitted as a substitute proposal. Considering
that all written proposals from the public are due in early
April of the previous year, any individual board member
proposals submitted after the year and well into the
deliberation process completely subverts the public process.
Later he also learned that the support division's lead staff
worked on and wrote this proposal at the bequest of Chair
Johnstone months before. When he asked why the department did
not present this before all the public submissions and testimony
was given, Mr. Johnstone concluded that the Board of Fisheries
chair has the power to present a board member proposal whenever
[the chair] so determines without the public having a prior
knowledge or any public release of the information contained
with, or at, the division. Mr. Shadura maintained that this was
a gross abuse of the public process and an example of the
questionable ethics that Mr. Johnstone will pursue to obtain his
personal objective.
10:09:58 PM
MONTE ROBERTS testified in support of the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said all
four appointees were carefully considered and do represent
(indisc. audio difficulties).
10:11:06 PM
FRED STURMAN testified in opposition to the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
has been fishing for 50 years and the 150 kids who worked for
him over the years have gone on to become doctors, lawyers,
veterinarians, teachers, and other professionals. However, he
won't be able to do that anymore because of [reduced fishing
days]. He is opposed to all four appointees because none of
them will look out for the fish. The governor should be asked
to appoint biologists who will look at the history and biology
of the fish, not special interests.
10:12:20 PM
RON CARMON testified in opposition to the confirmations of
Israel Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He said he
opposes Mr. Johnstone and all the people on the Board of
Fisheries. The guides don't even have a license and their
testimony shouldn't be included. He said the guide association
has taken out $44 billion of resource; the guides fish for free
and without a license and they need to pay that back.
10:13:04 PM
GARY STEVENS testified in support of the confirmations of Israel
Payton, Gerad Godfrey, Marit Carlson-Van Dort, and Karl
Johnstone, appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he
supports all the appointees because it is about time that in-
river users - sport, personal use, and subsistence users - have
somewhat equitable representation on the Board of Fisheries.
Many of the people questioning Mr. Johnstone's integrity or bias
were supporters of Roland Maw; it is sour grapes; they don't
want equitable representation for all Alaskans on this board.
Commercial fishers are not the only people who vote.
10:14:08 PM
JARED DANIELSON testified in opposition to the confirmation of
Karl Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He stated
he is a third-generation commercial fisherman and fishes the
Alaska Peninsula. His family started fishing when there were
fish traps in the 1950s. He opposes Mr. Johnstone because his
past experiences while attending Board of Fisheries meetings
indicate to him that Mr. Johnstone is unfit for the role. Mr.
Johnstone's disagreeable personality reflects his attitude. Mr.
Johnstone is hard to approach, is close-minded, and grumpy.
Even though Mr. Johnstone's credentials are passable, his
personality traits do not make for a well-equipped board member.
Mr. Johnstone has been quoted for saying science doesn't matter,
it's all politics. This kind of behavior is unacceptable. Mr.
Johnstone has served his time already and it's time to move
forward, give others an opportunity, and fill his seat with
someone who is competent.
10:15:27 PM
TODD SMITH testified in support of the confirmation of Israel
Payton and in opposition to the confirmation of Karl Johnstone,
appointees to the Board of Fisheries. He stated he has a
variety of outdoor interests and does a lot of fishing,
including commercial fishing on a small family setnet site off
the Kasilof River, a river that had record personal use fishing
this year. Fishing is very good on the Kasilof River. He
supports Mr. Payton's appointment. While Mr. Payton doesn't
always vote how he would like, Mr. Payton is honest, reads all
the department's reports, and asks tough questions. He opposes
Mr. Johnstone's appointment. While Mr. Johnstone is a smart and
effective board member, he has an agenda and his off-the-record
conduct is not befitting of a board member and his views are
polarizing. More cohesiveness is needed on the board, not
polarization. He has seen many times when Mr. Johnstone set the
board agenda to benefit Mr. Johnstone's interests.
10:17:02 PM
CLEM TILLION testified in support of the confirmation of Karl
Johnstone, appointee to the Board of Fisheries. He suggested
that if Mr. Johnstone is not confirmed "the deck is going to be
stacked" and the replacement appointee would be a sports
fisherman. Mr. Tillion said his sympathies are with the
commercial and Mr. Johnstone has been very helpful to Alaska's
cod fishermen and crab fishermen and the small boat operations
to the westward. He would rather keep that than end up with
another appointee who is a sport fish advocate that may have
lots less knowledge than Mr. Johnstone. He reiterated that Mr.
Johnstone is good for the fisheries westward.
10:17:55 PM
CHAIR STUTES closed public testimony after ascertaining that no
one else wished to testify. She offered time for each appointee
to make final comments.
MR. GODFREY expressed his appreciation for the people who shared
their thoughts in the public process and thanked the committee
for providing that public process.
CHAIR STUTES re-opened public testimony after discovering that
one witness was overlooked.
10:19:27 PM
ROLAND MAW, PhD, stated that since his name was mentioned by one
of the appointees and one of the witnesses, he thinks it
appropriate that he does not make any comments about the
suitability of any of the nominees.
CHAIR STUTES again closed public testimony and again offered
time for each appointee to make final comments.
10:20:31 PM
MS. CARLSON-VAN DORT stated that the policy of Alaska's
constitution is straightforward regarding the management of
resources for the maximum benefit of the public interest. To
her, that means the principles of conservation must govern the
management of that resource and everybody should be treated
equally by management rules, especially those rules adopted in
the interest of conservation that limit the access of some
groups to certain resources. Much was heard about that tonight
and it has given her a lot to think about. She reiterated that
she is up to that challenge.
MR. JOHNSTONE thanked the committee members and witnesses. To
those who testified against him he said he takes their comments
seriously, not personally, and there is no need to fear him if
he is appointed because he does not begrudge the comments. He
is humbled by the support he received in tonight's testimony
along with the approximately 250 letters written in his support.
MR. PAYTON stated he had no comments.
10:23:01 PM
CO-CHAIR TARR spoke to the positive testimony about Mr. Payton
and suggested that perhaps more [board members] need to do more
of what Mr. Payton is doing.
10:23:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN addressed the testimony requesting the
committee to appoint someone who wasn't one of the nominees.
She pointed out that the committee is only able to review the
nominees for the board and then the nominees' names go forward
to a full vote of the joint session. The committee cannot hold
a nomination [from being advanced from] committee, she added,
and the committee cannot choose the people who are nominated.
10:24:02 PM
CHAIR STUTES passed the gavel to Co-Chair Lincoln and prefaced
that her forthcoming remarks are nothing personal. She noted
she is the representative of a coastal district, the chair of
the House Special Committee on Fisheries, and an Alaskan who is
passionate about the state's fisheries and resources, and her
comments come from that perspective. She spoke as follows:
Mr. Johnstone has my thanks for his many years of
public service. However, I am morally and ethically
compelled to oppose his confirmation because of what
it would mean to the health of our fisheries, the
board's balance, and the public trust in the board's
process. As a representative of a coastal district
that boasts strong commercial, personal use,
subsistence, and sport constituencies, I want to see a
balanced board. Mr. Johnstone represents the second
Anchorage appointment on this board along with one
from Eagle River and one from Wasilla. That makes
four seats that regionally are from the same area.
Aside from the obvious Cook Inlet centric nature of
the appointees, Mr. Johnstone has proven himself to be
extremely biased against commercial fishing in both
published papers since his first time on the board as
well as his voting record and personal interactions
while on the board. Not only that, but his comments
on salmon farming are beyond alarming to Alaskans,
regardless of what user group they hail from.
Aquaculture is not the way of the future for Alaskan
commercial fishing families and communities.
Furthermore, as an Alaskan who believes in the public
process, transparency, and science-based management
decisions, the body of evidence and reputation
surrounding his career demonstrate clearly that those
are exactly the qualities that are coming into
question regarding his confirmation. Many people I
have spoken to who vehemently oppose his confirmation
are fearful of speaking out because of the retribution
they are sure that will follow if he is confirmed,
leaving me to agree with the people who are telling me
he created this atmosphere while he was on the board.
Aside from the identical form letters we have received
in support of the governor's nominees, the vast
majority who have contacted me are singling out Mr.
Johnstone for opposition out of genuine fear of what
is in store for the fisheries if he is ...
[appointed]. A list goes on, but the dramatic shift
in the board balance that Mr. Johnstone represents,
his clear bias, the lopsided regional makeup of the
nominees, as well as his lack of transparency and
residency issues, are too much for me to ignore. I
understand that any nominee for this seat will not be
a commercial fishing advocate and I'm fine with that.
This will be a sport seat. However, I firmly believe
that Mr. Johnstone's reputation and history of biases
show that he is not the right person for this board.
Again, I thank him for his past service, but I will be
opposing his confirmation.
10:27:48 PM
CO-CHAIR LINCOLN, seeing there were no further comments from
members, stated that the House Special Committee on Fisheries
and the House Resources Standing Committee have reviewed the
qualifications for the governor's appointees and recommend that
the names be forwarded to a joint session for consideration:
Gerad Godfrey from Eagle River, Israel Payton from Wasilla, Karl
Johnstone from Anchorage, and Marit Carlson-Van Dort from
Anchorage. He reminded both committees that this does not
reflect intent by any of the members to vote for or against
these individuals during any further sessions for the purposes
of confirmation.
CO-CHAIR LINCOLN thanked the people who gave testimony and said
it was nice to see this many people engaged in the process.
10:28:46 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committees, the joint
meeting of the House Special Committee on Fisheries and House
Resources Standing Committee was adjourned at 10:29 p.m.