Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124
03/19/2008 08:30 AM House FISHERIES
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| Overview: Round-table Discussion: Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska. | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
March 19, 2008
8:38 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair
Representative Kyle Johansen
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Bryce Edgmon
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Lindsey Holmes
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
ROUND-TABLE DISCUSSION: STATUTORY REGULATOR TOOLS TO ADDRESS
OVER ESCAPEMENT AND FOREGONE HARVEST IN SOUTHEAST ALASKA
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
BOB THORSTENSEN
Southeast Seiners Association
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
GERON BRUCE, Assistant Director
Division of Commercial Fisheries
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
BILL DAVIDSON, Coordinator
Southeast Regional Fin-Fish Management
Division of Commercial Fisheries
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Sitka, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
JOHN HILSINGER, Director
Division of Commercial Fisheries
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
MARK STOPHA, Direct Marketer
Alaska Wild Salmon Company
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
JERRY MCCUNE, Lobbyist
United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA)
Cordova, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
LEN PETERSON Direct Marketer
Taku River Reds
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
MARY MCDOWELL
Pacific Seafood Processors Association (PSPA)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Participated in the round-table discussion:
Statutory and Regulatory Tools to Address Over Escapement and
Foregone Harvest in Southeastern Alaska.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR PAUL SEATON called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 8:38 a.m. Representatives Seaton,
Edgmon, Johansen, and Johnson were present at the call to order.
Representative Wilson arrived as the meeting was in progress.
^OVERVIEW: ROUND-TABLE DISCUSSION: STATUTORY AND REGULATORY
TOOLS TO ADDRESS OVER ESCAPEMENT AND FOREGONE HARVEST IN
SOUTHEASTERN ALASKA.
8:40:13 AM
CHAIR SEATON welcomed the participants, and explained that, in
2007, Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) prepared a
summary of statewide salmon fishery escapement data. The
reports, contained in the committee packet, indicate where
escapements fell short of the minimum, attained the minimum, or
exceeded goals. For discussion purposed, those fisheries above
escapement goals will be treated as foregone harvest. He
explained contributing factors that create over escapement,
regardless of management efforts: a remote stream location, a
non-economical size run to pursue, and market demand
fluctuations. Following the first summary, the committee
requested an identification of the value of each stream, by
species. Fifty-five percent of the monitored streams were above
the upper escapement goal. In situations where this occurs on a
regular basis, ways and means to realize an improved harvest
needs to be addressed to maximize the economic value of the
resource. He reminded the participants that the discussion does
not carry a fault finding mission, but rather should bring a
variety of perspectives to improve the situation for everyone's
benefit.
8:44:20 AM
BOB THORSTENSEN, Southeast Seiners Association, called attention
to the committee packet, report 5J08-02, page 1, titled Abstract
Region 1: Southeast Region, Pink Salmon, to ascertain what
numbers were used to generate the graph. He said:
It looks like ... the numbers we're using are the
numbers that we would take directly off the tables for
over escapement. ... If Southeast Alaska is looking
for escapement of 12 million ... if you came it at 16
... million, you'd just take 4 million, subtract, and
you're out, right. ... That's how you did it.
8:45:55 AM
GERON BRUCE, Assistant Director, Division of Commercial
Fisheries, Alaska Department of Fish & Game responded, "I
believe so."
MR. THORSTENSEN opined how, with aerial surveys, the index
stream numbers may be estimated erroneously to a dramatic
degree. More importantly, he explained:
What we figured, over the years, what we estimated is,
that for every pink salmon that we count there is
approximately 2.5 to 3 pink salmon total out there.
... Those numbers actually with an expansion factor
would come in ... dramatically higher. These are ...
low numbers.
8:47:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired about the science, and logic, of
using an expansion factor ratio.
8:48:16 AM
MR. BRUCE asked if the question is about peak escapement numbers
or expansion numbers.
MR. THORSTENSEN interjected to clarify:
What you've got here are index numbers. You're trying
to take index numbers, turning them into dollars, and
they're not real numbers. That's all.
8:49:27 AM
BILL DAVIDSON, Coordinator, Southeast Regional Fin-Fish
Management, Division of Commercial Fisheries, Alaska Department
of Fish & Game, explained that there are three escapement goals
in the Southeast region waters: southern end, northern inside,
and northern outside. The escapement index is based on the 718
pink salmon producing streams in the region, which are surveyed,
via small aircraft, throughout the season. The highest count
observed is used for the index. The surveyed stream count and
part of the index are summed to determine the escapement for a
particular regional goal. Within the regional goal, the
managers will also have considered historical run timing
information, and factored in developing run information. He
reported that there are about 2,500 pink salmon producing
streams in the region, which are not all part of the index.
Flying an aerial survey, looking vertically down on a population
of fish, the estimation tends to be lower than a ground count.
8:52:19 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked if ADF&G has scientifically arrived at the
ratio factor of 1:2.3, and found to be reasonably accurate.
MR. DAVIDSON said the department has done studies to establish a
multiplier factor. However, with the variables involved in each
stream, it is difficult to establish one ratio that can be
accurately applied to each system. He said:
We don't really know the exact amount. So the [1:]2.5
is a rough expansion [ratio], trying to fit all cases,
when we don't have information in all of the different
streams.
8:54:04 AM
CHAIR SEATON queried what the confidence level is when using the
1:3 or 1:2.5 ratio.
MR. DAVIDSON stated, for working purposes, it provides a good
general estimate. He clarified:
On smaller size returns the expansion may not be that
high. It might be closer to what you see is what you
get. On a very large escapement it could be greater
than that. ... The index represents the general
condition of the area.
8:55:01 AM
CHAIR SEATON requested a description of how commercial
management occurs in relation to the index data.
MR. DAVIDSON described purse seine openings, for pink, chum, and
sometimes sockeye, throughout the season. Four area offices
simultaneously manage individual districts, in accordance with
the over-all seasonal management plan provided from the
department. The area managers are able to adjust the openings,
based on the local CPUE [catch per unit effort] and run
strengths. He said that the managers are able to stay out in
front of returns, and are reinforced by data from the ongoing
aerial surveys."
CHAIR SEATON surmised that the fishery experiences general area
wide openings rather than individual openings for specific
bays/inlets.
MR. DAVIDSON said to describe a single purse seine opening would
take a 6-7 page report detailing each of the 14 districts in the
region. The length of each opening varies by location, with an
attempt to maintain some regional consistency; it is a complex
situation.
8:58:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON referred to the extrapolation question to
ask, if it appears that there are 100,000 fish, is that the
number used without applying a multiplier to the index.
MR. DAVIDSON explained that there is not an adjustment for the
multiplier. "It is known and understood that the index of
escapements are what they are." he said.
8:59:33 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether it is possible to be 100
percent off in the actual count.
MR. DAVIDSON allowed that, from an airplane, it could be off by
200 percent. From an airplane at 500-600 feet and flying 70
mpg, the exact number can not be ascertained.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired if that might result in an under
as well as over estimation.
MR. DAVIDSON replied that in some systems and given weather
conditions, it would be possible.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked what is considered the statistical
margin of error.
MR. DAVIDSON responded that the focus is to observe the historic
data of a stream vs. providing accurate counts. He said that
establishing a foregone harvest a challenge.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON observed that, dealing with a 50 percent
margin of error, getting a foregone harvest is a very difficult
process. The information may not be available in order to
associate a dollar amount with the foregone harvest.
9:02:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired whether southeast is a more
difficult area to provide definitive numbers, than the other
regions of the state. Further, she asked, due to the number of
streams in the various districts, is it possible for a district
to experience overall low returns despite abundant runs in some
systems.
MR. DAVIDSON stated that he has not observed fisheries in other
regions of the state, but various approaches are used with
differing levels of accuracy to establish escapement numbers.
In southeast, aerial surveys are utilized for pink salmon, and
river sockeye may be counted via a fish wheel using a mark and
recapture program. In response to the second question, he
offered that there can be variability in the strength of returns
to specific areas within a district. Areas within districts are
sometimes closed, when returns are deemed insufficient.
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON clarified that the charts indicate low
returns overall, for certain years, but could individual
districts have experienced good returns during those years.
CHAIR SEATON clarified that the charts indicate the foregone
harvest, the fish estimated above the escapement goal, not the
total run. A perfect chart would show no bars, as there would
not be over escapement occurring.
9:05:24 AM
JOHN HILSINGER, Director, Division of Commercial Fisheries, said
a variety of methods are used around the state, and described
the sonar techniques, and costs involved in obtaining precise
counts. It is not feasible to use the most accurate methods in
many areas where 300-700 streams need to be monitored. The
aerial survey, recognized as an imprecise estimate, does provide
a valuable management tool. Since statehood, aerial surveys
have been utilized to provide a cost effective, and biologically
sound, means for rebuilding runs.
CHAIR SEATON commented that estimating a run, from the air, can
be as much an art as a science.
9:08:02 AM
MR. THORSTENSEN provided that the official Alaska expansion
factor for pink salmon, as utilized in negotiations with Canada
by the Pacific Salmon Commission, is a ratio of 1:2.5. Further,
he reported that, during the last seasons effort, over
escapement was less attributable to the department's ability to
manage openings, than it was to the fleet's actual capacity to
harvest and process. Despite some over escapement, he opined
that the pink harvest concerns have been met through the "good
old fashioned economics of the capitalist model."
9:11:31 AM
CHAIR SEATON indicated that increased value credits may be
available for processing of pink salmon, which may serve to
enhance the economics of the harvest. In areas where strong
runs prevail in remote streams, the direct market approach may
prove of value, and he pointed out the regulatory changes that
support this type of fishery. The legislature would be
interested in assisting in other ways that would improve the
economic gain of these remote resource sites.
9:12:46 AM
MARK STOPHA, Direct Marketer, Alaska Wild Salmon Company,
explained how added value has been implemented in each species,
including pink salmon. Because of added value handling, the
pink fillet is beginning to find demand in the market place;
being recognized as a widely spread affordable product. The
concern for this niche market is providing enough high quality
fish. He described the frustrations involved in his efforts to
comply with the DEC regulations. The sticking point is the
requirement for a fully enclosed gutting and gilling room, to
protect the product from dust and pests. A direct marketer who
handles only their own catch, does not have this requirement,
nor does a floating processor, or a vessel that is delivering
field dressed catch to a shoreside processor, who are required
to have a covered area only. He pointed out that many times,
these vessels are performing the same activity within close
proximity, while at sea, which is void of dust and pests.
Appeal has been made through the rule making petition, under AS
44.62.220, for relief, and to better understand this
requirement. The federal regulations provide other means for
addressing these same hazards. He said:
That's why we've sent letters out, and we're
continuing to press to get some legislative, statutory
... relief from this, because we don't feel ... we ...
have anybody to appeal to.
9:16:17 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked if there is room on a 26' boat to
comply.
MR. STOPHA responded it requires a 55-60 foot boat, which raises
another compliance issue. A direct marketer, doing a few
thousand pounds of fish per day looses economically when running
a larger vessel. He stressed that this does not constitute a
food safety issue, and the fleet needs to be able to use the
vessels available.
9:17:36 AM
CHAIR SEATON recalled:
I had made the amendment and put forward to allow five
vessels to work together, up to five, and process on
[one] vessel, so that we would get beyond this ...,
when we were doing the direct marketing bill ... two
years ago. ... The Direct Marketing Association ...
didn't support that amendment. ... Before you are
going to be able to get this, you're going to have to
get all of the direct market folks on board with that,
because it was opposed by them. ... It is a problem
and ... it would allow some foregone harvest to be
taken by smaller operations. ... Absolutely, you're
right, it's not a safety issue, or anything else. But
the attempt was to put that language in ... the direct
market bill and ... it was opposed at the time.
9:19:37 AM
JERRY MCCUNE, Lobbyist, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA), asked
if this is for at-sea processing, or in the harbor.
MR. STOPHA replied that it only applies on the fishing grounds.
He pointed out that, according to Alaska Seafood Marketing
Institute (ASMI) information, through 2006 one-third of H&G
[headed and gutted] Alaskan product is reprocessed in China,
but, with direct marketing, every dollar, and the products
reputation, remains in Alaska.
CHAIR SEATON reiterated the legislatures support for direct
marketing.
9:21:19 AM
MR. MCCUNE asked for a further description of the gutting and
gilling enclosure required.
MR. STOPHA described, and differentiated, the required hard
sided room from the commonly used tarp cover.
CHAIR SEATON clarified that the law allows a direct marketer to
handle their own fish, but, if catch is purchased from another
vessel, they become a floating processor and must comply with
the requirement for a full enclosure. The foregone harvest may
be a key approach for resolving this concern.
9:23:27 AM
LEN PETERSON Direct Marketer, Taku River Reds, said that as a
direct marketer, he catches and processes his own fish, and he
also purchases fish from other fishermen. He reported that
there is an over abundance of pink salmon in southeast, and in
2006 there were so many coming up the Taku River, that he
couldn't market all that he caught. The price he receives for
his fish, depends completely on who he markets it to. Each pink
may bring three dollars, on the direct market, or eighty cents,
if the processor is even buying them, making the exvessel value
highly variable. The direct market customers are willing to pay
for the high quality product, which a seiner is not able to
deliver. He stressed:
I need this foregone harvest. I'd like to be able to
sell more of the pinks that I process on my boat to
Mark [Stopha]. I'd like to be able to buy pinks from
other fishermen and process on my direct marketing
boat, but I can't by that regulation. ... I'm
interested in processing fish on my direct marketing
boat that I purchase. I cannot touch them by the
regulations as they are now. I can only refrigerate
them. So whatever condition I get them in ... I have
to hold them until I get to town, ... talk to a shore
base processor, and have them custom process my fish.
If I catch that fish on my own boat ... I can dress
it, I can take care of it, I can pressure bleed it, I
can sell it. In this case, though, if I buy it from
another fisherman, and increase the value to that
fisherman of their catch, I cannot process it until I
get to town. ... That law makes no sense to me.
CHAIR SEATON clarified how the amendment was opposed, and
concerns were expressed for allowing five fishermen/vessels to
work together.
9:29:07 AM
MR. THORSTENSEN agreed that a unified approach for added value
and direct marketing could only result in improved economic
gain, for everyone. He speculated what the pink salmon harvest
number could be if the regulations allowed the small boats to
work together, and added that industrial processing, including
involvement with China, would still need to occur. The law
currently slows down the fishermen's ability to harvest and
process in a timely manner; expediting fish to market is slowed.
He reiterated the need for the continued relationship between
the traditional seiner and corporate processor, to handle the
large volume runs.
CHAIR SEATON noted that the direct, niche markets are worked out
easier on a smaller scale. Setting competition issues aside
will allow the various entities to work in a united way to help
change the existing law. He pointed out how southeast has the
potential to do more in the added value arena than the other
regions, and reminded participants of the state based tax credit
incentive for added value catch endeavors.
9:34:33 AM
MARY MCDOWELL, Pacific Seafood Processors Association (PSPA),
welcomed the participation of the independent, direct marketers,
stating that there is opportunity for everyone to benefit given
the large volume of the available catch. She pointed out what
PSPA is doing to add value in the realm of large scale
processing.
9:35:36 AM
MR. PETERSON mentioned pink salmon cannot all be harvested as
food grade. The pet, and supplement, quality product can be
utilized by the large processor, but not the small, direct
marketer. He pointed out that there is a world shortage of fish
meal, which the large processor could cultivate, and be assisted
by the direct marketer in a cooperative effort. Further he
noted the surplus of fish to be harvested, and the volume
available, which cannot be handled at this time.
9:37:25 AM
CHAIR SEATON inquired how the southeast processors/fishermen are
handling carcasses, and if they are taking advantage of roe
collection opportunities. Also, he asked whether there is a
plan for handling carcasses/egg recovery when a larger than
expected run occurs; is dispersal left to nature.
MR. HILSINGER deferred.
MR. DAVIDSON explained how fisheries have been opened to allow
roe harvest, ikura [salmon caviar], during times of surplus
runs, at the mouths of streams. The carcasses are beneficially
utilized, being processed for bait, fish meal, fish oil, and
other purposes.
9:40:02 AM
CHAIR SEATON described carcass disposal issues, in other areas
of the state, and asked how it is handled in southeast,
particularly in remote stream harvest locals.
MR. DAVIDSON responded that the shore based processors operate
under EPA [environmental protection act] standards, for grinding
and discharge of carcasses, and some processors have meal plants
to create a beneficial use of the by product. Special purpose
carcass disposal permits are available, but he said he is not
aware that they have been utilized in southeast.
CHAIR SEATON explained how it is handled in south central, and
PWS, and offered that, if a plan needs to be devised for
southeast, the issue should be brought forward in a timely
manner.
9:43:55 AM
MR. MCCUNE offered that southeast fishermen have moved away from
harvesting roe, in order to focus on yielding a fully useable
product. Three additional processors have been brought in to
handle the pink harvest to assist in maximizing the use of the
entire fish.
9:44:55 AM
CHAIR SEATON moved attention to the sockeye salmon table in
report 5J08-03, and asked for comment.
9:46:18 AM
MR. HILSINGER described the majority of the southeast sockeye
systems as being small, with the exception of the Taku River.
Also, some of the systems are enhanced with hatchery fish. He
requested that Mr. Davidson address the over escapement on the
Taku River, and the Redoubt Lake situation. The table in report
5J08-1, page 2, indicates how over escapements fluctuate
dramatically with the sockeye runs, making management of this
species more difficult than others. These fluctuations occur
for various reasons, including when over escapement occurs,
resulting in years of abundant fry, which graze down the
phyto/zoaplankton, setting the stage for a population decrease.
9:49:02 AM
MR. DAVIDSON addressed the consistent sockeye surplus in the
Taku River, pointing out that it is a complex fishery to manage.
As a trans boundary river, it is managed in accordance with the
Pacific Salmon Treaty, that results in a multiplicity of goals.
He offered an example of how surplus sockeye, present in the
main stem Taku River, have been managed for limited harvest to
provide sufficient escapement into Tatsamenie Lake.
Additionally, enhanced chum stocks play a role. Last season saw
a chum harvest of 600,000 fish, with a sockeye harvest of
112,000, indicating how fishermen are seeking economic
opportunities to harvest more chum; by passing the lower priced
pink runs. Yet another problem is the directed chinook harvest,
which overlaps with the sockeye run. Fishermen allow the
sockeye to escape, in order to target the chinook. Regarding
Redoubt Lake, he said that, although it may appear to be ready
for harvest, the lake fluctuates greatly in escapement numbers.
It is the primary subsistence system in the Sitka area, which
takes priority over a commercial opening. Finally, he pointed
out that the sockeye populations of southeast primarily exist in
small, widely scattered lakes throughout the region, and only 13
systems have established escapement goals. Stock assessment
projects imply a need for funding, he finished.
CHAIR SEATON praised the department's efforts in working with
the local user groups to solve the management issues. He
provided an update on the scheduled round-table discussions.
9:55:21 AM
MR. PETERSON described an additional conflict that occurs at the
mouth of the Taku River, when the run intermingles with the
Snettisham hatchery returns, creating hatchery and wild stock
management difficulties. Also, he reported that last season was
a down year for chum salmon in the Taku River, with a return of
half of what was expected. He opined that the majority of the
foregone harvest is comprised of Snettisham hatchery fish.
These sockeye average between 2-4 pounds, while the wild sockeye
average 8-9 pounds; a more valuable product. The market for the
smaller sockeye has not been established, and until that happens
they will continue to represent the bulk of the foregone
harvest.
9:58:18 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN referred to report 5J08-01, page 2, to
inquire about the consistent "B," below escapement goal,
standing of McDonald Lake.
MR. HILSINGER explained that McDonald Lake is a particularly
difficult system, with stock numbers that tend to vary
dramatically. Although it has experienced abundant returns, in
recent years it has not produced well. The department has
launched a study to determine what has happened to this system.
Further, a restocking plan is under way, along with harvest
restrictions, to boost production. The exact reason why sockeye
runs vary dramatically in certain systems, such as McDonald
Lake, is unknown.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked if the up and down trend appears
in the historical escapement goal charts, or has it only
occurred recently.
MR. HILSINGER deferred.
MR. DAVIDSON stated that the lake does have historical data
indicating a history of fluctuation. He agreed with Mr.
Hilsinger, the exact cause remains a scientific mystery.
CHAIR SEATON interjected that over escapement of sockeye, can
cause serious detriment to a system, which requires time for
recovery.
10:01:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON suggested that DEC be included in the
future meetings.
10:02:00 AM
CHAIR SEATON thanked everyone for participating and for their
interest in uniting efforts towards a more economic fisheries
resource harvest.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 10:02
a.m.
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