01/30/2008 08:30 AM House FISHERIES
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| HB16|| OVERVIEW OF FISH & GAME COMMERCIAL FISHING DIVISION SCALLOP MANAGEMENT PLAN | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 16 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
January 30, 2008
8:39 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Paul Seaton,
Representative Kyle Johansen
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Bryce Edgmon
Representative Lindsey Holmes
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 16
"An Act providing for an effective date by delaying the
effective date of repeal of the authority of the Commercial
Fisheries Entry Commission to maintain the vessel-based
commercial fisheries limited entry systems for the Bering Sea
Korean hair crab and weathervane scallop fisheries, and the
effective date of conforming amendments related to the repeal of
those systems."
- HEARD AND HELD
OVERVIEW: FISH AND GAME COMMERCIAL FISHING DIVISION SCALLOP
MANAGEMENT
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 16
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND LIMITED ENTRY SUNSET: CRAB/SCALLOP
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) SEATON
01/16/07 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/5/07
01/16/07 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/16/07 (H) FSH, RES
04/04/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124
04/04/07 (H) Heard & Held
04/04/07 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
05/04/07 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124
05/04/07 (H) Heard & Held
05/04/07 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
01/30/08 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
JOHN HILSINGER, Director
Commercial Fisheries Division
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the overview on HB 16 for the
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G).
FRANK HOMAN, Chairman, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
(CFEC)
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on HB
16.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR PAUL SEATON called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 8:39:21 AM. Representatives
Johansen, Edgmon, Johnson, and Seaton were present at the call
to order. Representatives Wilson, LeDoux, and Holmes arrived as
the meeting was in progress.
^OVERVIEW OF FISH & GAME COMMERCIAL FISHING DIVISION SCALLOP
MANAGEMENT PLAN
HB 16-EXTEND LIMITED ENTRY SUNSET: CRAB/SCALLOP
8:39:42 AM
CHAIR SEATON announced that the only order of business would be
the Scallop Management Proposal from the Department of Fish &
Game with discussion of HOUSE BILL NO. 16 "An Act providing for
an effective date by delaying the effective date of repeal of
the authority of the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission to
maintain the vessel-based commercial fisheries limited entry
systems for the Bering Sea Korean hair crab and weathervane
scallop fisheries, and the effective date of conforming
amendments related to the repeal of those systems."
8:39:58 AM
CHAIR SEATON said that public testimony on HB 16 was closed on
May 4, 2007. Today there will be invited testimony from the
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC) and the Department
of Fish & Game (ADF&G); HB 16 will not be moved today. Chair
Seaton explained that it is unknown at this time whether the
state needs to prepare for state management of the [Korean hair
crab and scallop] fisheries. The sunset will take place and
state management will need to accommodate the scallop fishery;
Korean hair crab management will not be reviewed due to the fact
that there is no stock viability at this time.
8:41:34 AM
JOHN HILSINGER, Director, Commercial Fisheries Division,
Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), presented an update on the
management options for the scallop fishery under the assumption
that HB 16 does not pass. He informed the committee that the
ADF&G supports HB 16 and the continuation of the vessel based
limited entry system. Without the passage of HB 16, there will
be no limited entry system in state waters unless there is
intervention by the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
(CFEC). Federal waters outside of three miles will continue to
operate under the federal license limitation program. At this
time, ADF&G does not have a good estimate on the number of boats
that may fish in state waters if the fishery is designated open
entry. ADF&G has requested the Alaska Board of Fisheries
(Board) to consider changes to the scallop management plan for
state waters in the absence of HB 16. In addition, ADF&G staff
has met statewide to develop management options and to solicit
public proposals. Mr. Hilsinger explained that the difficulty
of management under the open entry system is that there are
three centrally located scallop beds where the state and federal
boundaries meet: Shelikof Strait, Kayak Island, and Yakutat.
It is necessary to manage each as two separate areas, state and
federal. The management options proposed to the Board are: no
changes to the basic statewide management plans; and continuing
management under guideline harvest levels. ADF&G proposes
regional plans for Shelikof Strait, Kayak Island, and Yakutat
with some minor differences. He stated that ADF&G staff agrees
that the plans should incorporate a registration year from the
first of April to the thirty-first of March and a registration
deadline of the first of April. A registration deadline will
give staff time for assessment of the fishery and to set up the
mandated onboard observer program. Observers have to be
identified, trained, and approved prior to being placed in their
positions.
8:49:50 AM
MR. HILSINGER continued to explain that vessels will be required
to register to fish in state or federal waters and are
restricted to the waters in which they are registered. Fishing
in federal waters requires a federal permit. ADF&G will set
separate guideline harvest levels for state and federal waters.
8:50:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked for the reason that a state permit
will not allow fishing in federal waters and vice-versa.
8:51:06 AM
MR. HILSINGER explained that catch accounting must be kept
separate to ensure accurate harvest reporting; if not, scallops
caught in federal waters may count against the state harvest
guideline and inadvertently close the fishery. However, a boat
can register to fish in other waters at other times during the
season.
8:51:42 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX opined that the observers could report the
catch accurately.
8:51:59 AM
MR. HILSINGER stated that observers are not monitoring 24 hours
per day. Observers do help with reporting, but staff feels that
registration is important. He noted that an added change
provision requires that, when a boat wants to move, for example,
from state to federal waters, it must call ADF&G 12 hours in
advance, shuck its scallops, and report its harvest prior to the
move. He continued to say that ADF&G envisions that there are
separate guideline harvest levels, managed separately, so areas
can be closed if necessary, and others can remain open. He
cautioned that good stock assessment data for Shelikof Strait
and Yakutat is lacking and that guideline harvest levels will be
set by the historical distribution of catch until guideline
assessment techniques are improved.
8:55:09 AM
CHAIR SEATON recalled that historic data reported about 40
percent of the catch comes from state waters.
8:55:30 AM
MR. HILSINGER agreed. He explained that there is catch
accounting data; however, a single "tow" can come from state and
federal waters. Thus, catch accounting is not perfect and the
overall average is about 30 percent from state waters.
8:56:26 AM
CHAIR SEATON relayed that the problem is less for scallops than
it is for stock that moves from one area to another.
8:56:52 AM
MR. HILSINGER said yes. He assured the committee that future
assessments will be more complete. Returning to the accounting
for the beds, Mr. Hilsinger pointed out that each area must
identify its crab bycatch limits. Some areas have both tanner
and king crab present.
8:57:53 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked for details on bycatch limits.
8:58:15 AM
MR. HILSINGER answered that, if the crab bycatch limit is
reached, the fishery is closed. Scallop fishermen rarely reach
bycatch limits and have an incentive to stay away from crab.
The limits are based on population size estimates and can vary
by location and species.
8:59:29 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked whether juvenile crab would be included in
the bycatch limit.
8:59:45 AM
MR. HILSINGER replied that the limit remains the same regardless
of the size of the crab. He continued to explain that the 12
hour notice prior to changing registration is sufficient for the
vessel to shuck and weigh scallops and complete its fish
tickets.
9:00:20 AM
CHAIR SEATON advised that testimony from fisherman favored the
limitation of dredge size to ten or twelve feet. In federal
waters, sixteen foot dredges are used. He asked how a vessel
would carry legal gear for both waters.
9:01:22 AM
MR. HILSINGER acknowledged that, if the Board were to adopt
dredge size limitations in state waters, there would be
conflicts with enforcement. In fact, ADF&G will not propose
dredge size limitations at this time because it is confident
that the fishery will be managed successfully. The Board would
need to review a proposal of dredge limits, and develop
governing regulations if it were adopted.
9:03:27 AM
CHAIR SEATON pointed out that limiting gear is a common
management technique to prevent overharvesting. State water
fishermen have proposed a ten or twelve foot limitation, and the
size of the gear will also affect the speed [of] and the number
of vessels. An unlimited fishery can be difficult to regulate,
particularly if [ADF&G] does not use the techniques proposed by
the fisherman. He remarked:
The department would get a lot better handle if they
went with a, what has been proposed by the fisherman.
That is limiting those and then, if that is not a
problem, opening it up further in future years. ... I
would just like to get a little more analysis from you
later on the reasoning for that and how that interacts
with the number, with your primary concern about maybe
[there] being too much participation.
9:05:24 AM
MR. HILSINGER stated that ADF&G envisions daily reporting, but
three times per week may be deemed sufficient. In addition,
staff is also proposing a vessel monitoring system (VMS)
requirement and will soon have access to the National Oceanic
and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Marine Fisheries
Service (NMFS) vessel monitoring system database. This system,
with the observer data, will help determine whether boats are
fishing in the proper areas. He concluded by informing the
committee that ADF&G may be making some additions to closed
waters. The location of scallops is known, and ADF&G wants to
prevent dredges wandering around outside of the scallop beds,
particularly in the Shelikof area. The recommendations to this
program are statewide staff's best assessment of a management
plan designed to meet guideline harvest levels; other conditions
and proposals from fisherman will be submitted to the Board with
comments.
9:08:37 AM
CHAIR SEATON offered to forward to ADF&G all of the fisher'
testimony submitted to the committee regarding dredge size and
limitations. He noted that currently the North Pacific
Fisheries Management Council (NPFMC) does not require VMS on
scallops fished in federal waters and asked whether ADF&G would
coordinate with them on this requirement.
9:09:47 AM
MR. HILSINGER relayed that the state has the management
delegation from the federal government; therefore, state
regulations are in effect out to 200 miles. He opined that, for
some fisheries the cost of VMS is a burden to the fisherman, but
not for scallops. Requiring VMS is reasonable in this case and
the requirement would apply in state and federal waters.
9:10:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for the cost to implement the plan
that was outlined.
9:11:00 AM
MR. HILSINGER said that, if the current management plan stays in
effect, there is no additional cost. A major problem is that
$500,000 of the scallop stock assessment and research money is
in federal grants that are depleted. ADF&G is looking for
funding from the state; however, funding is a significant
problem.
9:12:01 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON further stated that a ballpark cost needs
to be provided to the committee in anticipation of a
supplemental request next year.
9:12:44 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked whether ADF&G reports to the NPFMC
in order to share information about regulations and policies.
9:13:16 AM
MR. HILSINGER said that there is a scallop plan team that
reviews the stock assessment and works with ADF&G staff. The
two entities work closely together and reports are made to the
NPFMC regarding the scallop fishery.
9:13:51 AM
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked for the effect on the NPFMC if HB 16
does not pass.
9:14:05 AM
MR. HILSINGER replied that, absent HB 16, the changes will be
within state waters. Federal waters are subject to federal
license limitations. He opined that the Board may regulate;
however, NPFMC is not prepared or able to manage scallops in
federal waters. If the state is inconsistent with the Magnuson-
Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act the NPFMC may
invoke a review in the future. He suggested that ADF&G and the
Board should submit its recommendations to NPFMC prior to the
board meeting.
9:15:40 AM
CHAIR SEATON listed many of the fisheries that are managed in
state and federal waters and said that the scallop fishery is
not unusual. In fact, scallops will be easier to manage than
some.
9:16:58 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSON asked for clarification about the suit
between the state and the F/V Mr. Big over an application for a
permit. He said, "... What is the effect on failure or passage
of this bill regarding this vessel's ability to fish this stock
out?"
9:18:20 AM
MR. HILSINGER responded that, if HB 16 does not pass, state
waters will be open to any vessel, of any size, that wants to
participate in the scallop fishery until, or unless, some other
form of limited entry comes in effect.
9:19:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSON surmised that it is possible that a
trawler can come in and scoop up.
9:19:25 AM
MR. HILSINGER agreed. He said that they could come in and fish
as long as they are following regulations. They must register
and stay within state waters. Mr. Hilsinger reviewed the
proposed recommendations to the Board and opined that fishing
activities will be controlled.
9:20:51 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked for background on the differences between the
situations prior to the F/V Mr. Big dispute and now.
9:21:00 AM
MR. HILSINGER recalled that there was no fishery management plan
for scallops in federal waters. The F/V Mr. Big relinquished
its state registration and was fishing in federal waters.
Federal waters were closed for about 18 months and reopened
under a fishery management plan. He opined that the present
regulatory environment is tighter.
9:22:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON expressed her understanding that if HB 16
is not passed, it will be the first time the state has stopped a
limited entry access fishery and the stability of the fishery
may be threatened. She emphasized the importance of the
economic value of the fishery.
9:23:53 AM
MR. HILSINGER re-stated that ADF&G supports the passage of the
bill. He said that the vessel based limited entry program has
worked well and has provided a sustainable fishery; however, it
does limit participation. Analysis by the CFEC determined that
there was the possibility of 27 permits being issued for the
fishery; this had the potential for overuse. With open entry,
the economics of the fishery are unknown and the Board may be
forced to issue limitations on trips or gear. Mr. Hilsinger
expressed his desire for maintaining a viable fishery and said
that he supports the public process. He assured the committee
that, in an emergency, the fishery can always be closed.
9:26:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON expressed her concern that this situation
can jeopardize the fishery.
9:27:34 AM
CHAIR SEATON repeated the highlights of the recommended
monitoring process and the proposed gear limitations from
fisherman.
9:28:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked, "If it's working now, why change
it?"
9:28:46 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked whether there was a legal rational
to exclude the F/V Mr. Big from access to an open fishery.
9:29:16 AM
MR. HILSINGER said no. He explained that regulations allow
closures due to illegal fishing and the fishery would be closed
to everyone, not one ship.
9:29:53 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX assumed that the F/V Mr. Big was fishing
illegally.
9:30:13 AM
MR. HILSINGER further explained that, to his knowledge, ADF&G
can cite an individual for illegal activities but can not
exclude someone for something they might do.
9:30:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked whether the F/V Mr. Big was cited.
9:31:13 AM
MR. HILSINGER said that he was unsure, except that the F/V Mr.
Big was stopped from fishing.
9:31:36 AM
CHAIR SEATON confirmed that ADF&G will make a further
presentation to the Board on the third of March.
9:32:00 AM
FRANK HOMAN, Chairman, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
(CFEC), Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G), informed the
committee that the CFEC encourages more discussion and action on
HB 16.
9:32:42 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked whether there was any change in the
participation in the fishery this year. At last count, three
vessels were harvesting all of the scallops in the state.
9:32:55 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN said no. The guideline harvest level is about
500,000 pounds of shucked scallops.
9:33:21 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked whether there could be just one vessel
harvesting all of the scallops.
9:33:24 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN said yes.
9:33:32 AM
CHAIR SEATON further asked whether the current program allows
one vessel, working in conjunction with others, to harvest all
of the scallops and then pay the proceeds to the outside
corporations that hold the permits.
9:33:49 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN replied that the guideline harvest of 500,000
pounds can be taken by one vessel whether there are agreements
or not.
9:34:19 AM
CHAIR SEATON observed that the current vessel based system does
not require the permit participant to be on board. He opined
that this situation leads to the constitutional problem of the
special right of fishery, and warned of the danger of designing
a system that results in the exclusion of Alaskan participants.
Chair Seaton recalled testimony that the catch is sometimes off-
loaded in federal waters, resulting in the loss of revenue to
Alaska. He expressed his concern that, even though the fishery
is easier to manage, Alaska is losing: people, jobs,
participants in the fishery, boats, and revenue. He questioned
how this system fulfills the legislature's constitutional
responsibility to gain the maximum benefit of the resource for
the people of Alaska. He concluded that testimony to the
committee indicates that the structure in place creates
constitutional questions.
9:37:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX commented that enacting or extending
legislation that will basically allow just one or two boats to
scoop up all of the resource has the same result as the actions
by the F/V Mr. Big.
9:38:31 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN stressed that open access does not guarantee that
only Alaskans will fish. The F/V Mr. Big was fishing illegally
in the 90s; in fact, there are now more regulations in place to
prevent similar conduct.
9:39:45 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX questioned whether the F/V Mr. Big was
fishing illegally.
9:39:56 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN said, "Well, I don't know that legally or
illegally, but, but there were no regulations to keep him out,
the only thing they could do was to close the fishery."
9:40:02 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX remarked:
But the bad thing about it was that it ended up with
just one boat scooping up the resources and doesn't
this very bill allow just one or two boats to scoop up
the resources?
9:40:16 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN said:
The limitation program that we have in place now is
regulated and the boats that are fishing in it are,
have state regulations and, and the state manages, the
state, and the federal, so there are, there are,
controls on them. But, but one of them could go out
and scoop up all the fish if he ignored all of the
rules, so, the same thing could happen, but the
fishery was closed for a year and a half or two years
so they could get those rules in place.
9:40:49 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked what will happen if many boats are
there and the limit is reached on the very first day.
9:41:34 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN answered that, if the harvest limit is caught the
first day, the fishery is closed.
9:41:55 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON further asked whether the state is due
revenue from a catch in federal waters.
CHAIRMAN HOMAN explained that there is economic value to Alaska
from the servicing and staffing of the vessels.
9:43:22 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON further asked whether the state can tax
the catch from federal waters.
9:43:58 AM
CHAIR SEATON explained that, when fish come to dock in Alaska
for delivery, there is a landing or raw fish tax paid to the
state. However, if the catch is transferred at sea and does not
enter state waters, no tax is paid.
9:45:19 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSON asked Chairman Homan to respond to the
Chair's prior comments.
9:45:54 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN stated that the original principle that started
the vessel limitation program was a response to a conservation
issue. When individual recipients receive permits there can be
too many for a small fishery to sustain. Prior to 2002, the
CFEC determined that the current program of individual permits
would not work for the scallop fishery and the legislature
passed a bill that allowed a five-year vessel license program
for the two small fisheries only. The authorization for that
program is now up for review and reauthorization.
9:47:31 AM
CHAIR SEATON added that the purpose of the sunset was to
reevaluate the program. He recalled fears, expressed at the
passage of the legislation five years ago, that the licensing of
vessels to corporations would allow an extreme consolidation of
the fishery into a few hands; testimony has shown that there are
now three participants in the fishery. This is the outcome to
be judged and debated.
9:48:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked whether legislation could be
introduced that states that, if a boat does not fish for two
consecutive years, it loses its permit.
9:49:16 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN replied that the legislature can pass a law like
that; however, it would be subject to legal challenge. He added
that there are continuous court challenges to regulations.
9:49:52 AM
CHAIR SEATON asked whether the licenses are issued to the vessel
or to the vessel owner.
CHAIRMAN HOMAN responded that licenses are issued to the vessel
owner.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON suggested making changes to the program
rather than abandoning it. He opined that the legislature has
equal constitutional charges: to elevate the resource and to
maximize the benefit of the resource. The resource has been
protected by this program and small changes, such as limiting
the number of boats in the fishery, are in order.
9:51:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked for the number of boats that have
agreements with other fisherman. She pointed out that many
fisherman are still benefitting in the fishery, even if it is as
a member of a corporation.
9:52:17 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN answered that most of the vessels are owned by
corporations. He explained that most are small corporations
created to save money and this results in a more manageable
system that works well. The consolidation of boats is a balance
of economics that is an acceptable thing to do. Because of the
expected high participation in the scallop fishery, the vessel
licensing made sense and the CFEC was given permission to do
this for only two fisheries in 2002.
9:55:21 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX pointed out that the hair crab fishery has
not been open during the course of this legislation; therefore,
there is no history with respect to the hair crab fishery.
9:55:56 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN agreed that the hair crab fishery has not been
open; however, if it does open the protection and control of
limited vessels will apply.
9:56:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked whether the hair crab fishery was
open when the legislation was enacted.
9:57:10 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN said he did not think so.
9:57:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX surmised that the hair crab fishery was a
problem that did not exist.
9:57:46 AM
CHAIRMAN HOMAN opined that more Alaskans will be involved in the
hair crab fishery when it is open.
9:58:08 AM
CHAIR SEATON clarified that this is the only fishery in which
one can reap the rewards without being present. Otherwise,
participants are required to be present with the gear during
operation. In this structure, corporations from outside can own
the resource and the crew sends a check. Chair Seaton drew an
analogy between the policy created by this legislation and
sharecropping. He expressed the committee's interest in the
future discussion of this topic and thanked the speakers.
[HB 16 was held for further discussion.]
9:59:41 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 9:59
a.m.
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