Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 124
04/20/2005 08:30 AM House FISHERIES
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| Adjourn |
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
April 20, 2005
8:47 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Thomas, Co-Chair
Representative Woodie Salmon
Representative Jim Elkins
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Mary Kapsner
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative John Harris
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
Alaska Department of Fish and Game
McKie Campbell
- CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
MCKIE CAMPBELL, Commissioner
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as appointed commissioner of the
Alaska Department of Fish & Game.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CO-CHAIR GABRIELLE LEDOUX called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 8:47:53 AM. Representatives
LeDoux, Thomas, Elkins, and Salmon were present at the call to
order. Representatives Wilson and Kapsner arrived as the
meeting was in progress.
^CONFIRMATION HEARING(S)
^Alaska Department of Fish and Game
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the committee would consider the
confirmation of the appointment of McKie Campbell to the
position of Commissioner of the Alaska Department of Fish &
Game.
8:48:32 AM
MCKIE CAMPBELL, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Fish & Game
(ADF&G), stated that he was available to answer any of the
committee members' questions.
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX asked Commissioner Campbell why he wanted the
job.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL explained that he served in the ADF&G as
Special Assistant to the Commissioner in 1991 during Governor
Walter Hickel's administration, and he later acted as Deputy
Commissioner. He commented, "I enjoyed that job more than any
job that I've ever had." He said that he worked with a great
group of people [at ADF&G].
8:49:44 AM
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX asked for further clarification of Commissioner
Campbell's work history.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL explained that he worked as legislative
committee staff in the Alaska State Legislature from 1981-1990.
He then became Special Assistant to the Commissioner of ADF&G,
and soon after became the Deputy Chief of Staff in the Alaska
Governor's Office. In 1993 he returned to ADF&G as Deputy
Commissioner.
8:50:53 AM
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX asked Commissioner Campbell to describe the
hardest issue that he had to deal with during his service under
the Hickel administration.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied, "Subsistence and wolves."
Regarding subsistence issues, he said that [it was a challenge]
to work with all parties throughout the state to try to achieve
some kind of workable solution. He noted that the issues of
subsistence and wolf [population control] have been issues that
the state has wrestled with for the last 50 years.
8:52:27 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked Commissioner Campbell what he would
change if he had to deal with subsistence issues again.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied:
I have been part of attempts to resolve subsistence
1986 through the time I left, and I have worked on
attempts having to do with constitutional amendments
[and] having to do without constitutional amendments.
I believe the situation that we have right now is we
have federal management. ... In 1990 what happened was
the federal subsistence board adopted the state game
regulations for subsistence entirely ... but since
that time there has been this wide divergence. Some
of that has been reasoned; they thought of it and they
decided, "No, we don't like the standards the state
set," and they've made decisions to have different
standards or different limits.
But there's a whole bunch of things that have happened
simply because either our board or their board is in
slightly different cycles. The opportunities that are
provided in the state subsistence law and the
opportunities that are provided in the federal
subsistence law are not markedly different; it's not
greater opportunity one way or the other. But because
they're slightly different, we have resulted in a real
mess of regulations between the two.... That really
is a disadvantage to the users and we are going to try
to work with the federal government to see if there's
some way we can jointly work together to clean those
up.
8:54:36 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER commented that there have been a number
of both regular and special legislative sessions involving the
subsistence issue.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL agreed. He noted that he was involved in
every session from 1986-1994. He commented that no one walks
away from the subsistence issue unwounded, but "that doesn't
mean we don't continue to need to deal with it."
8:55:40 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER remarked, "My constituents are actually
quite pleased with federal management but that's not to say that
it's a perfect system; I think dual management is very
complicated, especially when you're dealing with mobile
species." She opined that she is fortunate in that she comes
from an area in Alaska that is all federal land, but she
expressed sympathy for people from the Kodiak area, where the
land is split between the federal government and [the state
government]. She asked Commissioner Campbell, "Can you put on
the record what kind of regulations you want changed in federal
management, and is part of your plan to diminish the protections
we have in [Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act
(ANILCA)]?"
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered, "I'd like to say unequivocally
it is not part of the plan to diminish the protections under
ANILCA; I'd like to get that firmly on the record first." He
commented that the regulations are very complex, and often the
differences between state and federal regulations do not result
in significant differences in subsistence opportunity. He
presented an example from about 10 years ago in which Red Creek
sheep [hunting] was closed to everyone except for residents of
Arctic Village. He commented that since that time there is no
record of any sheep taken by anybody. He said, "If there's not
a subsistence use of those sheep, we ought to go and look and
say, 'Can we open it back up for wider access?'"
8:57:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER remarked, "Because there is no record
does that mean none have been taken? ... Perhaps that's more of
a reflection that the subsistence division [of ADF&G] doesn't
have the resources to get the data on paper."
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied that this may be the case. He
noted that one of the issues of subsistence is always the issue
of reporting and keeping accurate records. He commented, "We're
not talking about a diminishment of opportunity; what we're
talking about is, 'Are there places where you can have
clarification for all users and are there places we you may have
the ability to increase opportunity for other users without any
diminishment."
8:59:17 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS voiced disappointment in the ADF&G budget this
year; he commented that the budget increases were for salaries
only. He asked Commissioner Campbell if he will fight for the
ADF&G budget to be increased for new fisheries.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that he will. He opined that the
ADF&G is "pretty beaten down right now." He said that when he
worked at the legislature [25] years ago many of the legislators
were commercial fishermen who knew the importance of fish and
wildlife as the economic engine of Alaska. He commented that he
hoped the House Special Committee on Fisheries will help ADF&G
be ambassadors to the legislature for the importance of fish and
wildlife to the state.
9:01:50 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS talked about the shrimp fishery and king crab
fishery, which he surmised are underutilized in certain areas of
the state.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded, "I think, unfortunately,
throughout our state we have numerous examples of underutilized
fisheries, and that's a lost economic opportunity to the state."
He commented that he didn't think Railbelt legislators
understand the value of [fisheries]. He continued:
The hardest type of economic development for our state
to develop is economic opportunities in rural Alaska.
And again, both fish and wildlife can provide multiple
opportunities for economic base in rural Alaska that
benefit our state entirely, because anything that
happens out there is also going to benefit the
Railbelt.
9:03:48 AM
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER interjected that she needed to leave to
attend a meeting. She noted that she still has a number of
questions that she wishes Commissioner Campbell to answer on the
record, so she will pose these questions at the House Resources
Standing Committee confirmation hearing.
9:05:43 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked for examples of rural economic
development ideas.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that one such idea would be to
find underutilized fisheries to develop, or build up existing
fisheries; he said that most of these occur in rural parts of
the state. He stated that this would give economic opportunity
to the fishermen who live in the area, and if there is a raw
fish tax, this would provide further funds to the local economy.
As another example, he said, would be for village corporations
to find economic opportunities in sport fishing and hunting. As
a third example, he told the committee how a group of people on
Little Diomede are starting a cottage industry to tie flies,
using polar bear hair, for sport fishermen.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL then turned to the topic of tourists, who
he said would not come to Alaska if not for the wildlife here.
He commented that he would like every tourist to leave the state
with a taste for Alaska seafood.
9:08:59 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS remarked that he has a lifetime [halibut
fishing] permit for Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve,
which he would like to be able to pass on to his children. He
said, "I feel like I'm being displaced for cruise ships." He
expressed his dislike for having the bay closed to commercial
fishing.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL stated, "What happened in Glacier Bay was
just flat wrong in my opinion. ... [But] we have a much better
leadership of the [National Park Service] now ..., and I think
we have some room to work."
CO-CHAIR THOMAS reiterated that he wants lifetime permit holders
to be able to hand the permits down to family members.
9:10:57 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked for Commissioner Campbell's feelings
regarding the wolves around McGrath.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that ADF&G has a lot of active
predator control programs. He said that a [wolf hunter] told
him that it is very important for [the hunter] to have wolves
and bears be part of the ecosystem, but in the last eight years
"things had gotten so out of whack" that many moose and caribou
populations were severely depressed. He said that wolves can
target particular moose or caribou populations and "ride it
down" while supplementing their diets with other foods, and
therefore even if the moose or caribou population crashes, the
wolves maintain their numbers. He commented that there are
definitely places and times where Alaskans need to "step in and
reduce wolf numbers."
9:13:22 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS related a story in which an ADF&G representative
was in Haines for a local advisory board meeting and there was a
difference of opinion; the local residents believe that the bear
population is too high and the moose population is too low,
while [the department believes the opposite]. He voiced the
opinion that the department isn't controlling the bear
population properly. He also said that he thought the ADF&G
employee was rude to the local residents.
9:15:15 AM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL remarked that he will look into the bear
issue in the Haines area. He noted that ADF&G will need to have
adequate funds to do the background research. Regarding
employee attitude, he commented that ADF&G personnel are well-
educated and good employees, but some of them don't know much
about customer relations. He said:
One of the things that I've already talked to the
directors about [and] am going to be talking
throughout the department about is how we treat and
interact with our customers. It doesn't always mean
we do what they want. ... But it does mean we can be
dealing with people in a friendly, courteous, and
above all, square way to no one ever feels they
weren't given full truth or were mislead.
9:17:46 AM
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX commented that a number of her constituents have
told her that ADF&G employees have been injecting some sort of
dye into the moose population around Iliamna in order to count
the moose, but this dyeing process is making the moose unfit for
human consumption.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied that he had never heard of this.
He said that he will look into the issue, but "it sounds very
bizarre." He commented that this is probably a "rural myth."
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX pointed out that she had heard this from several
people, including a public health professional in one of the
villages.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded that the only thing that he can
think of is that the department injects moose when they are
being moved to a new location, and those chemicals can make the
moose unfit to eat for a short period of time. However the
department takes care to ensure that the injected moose are not
harvested during the time that those chemicals are still
present.
9:20:31 AM
CO-CHAIR THOMAS asked Commissioner Campbell if he supports the
idea of processor shares.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered, "I don't know yet. In all
fairness, rationalization is a very tough issue; we're working
our way through it." He noted that he was [working for AD&FG]
when the halibut fishery was changed to individual fishing
quotas (IFQs).
CO-CHAIR THOMAS remarked that he was not supportive of IFQs
originally, but now he sees the pros and the cons.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL agreed that there are pros and cons to the
IFQ program. He noted that the program had substantial
disadvantages for crewmembers.
9:22:25 AM
CO-CHAIR LEDOUX asked the commissioner if he has any thoughts on
SB 113-GULF OF ALASKA GROUNDFISH FISHERY.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL responded, "We are actively working on
that right now and that is tied up in this whole processor share
issue.... We will get that to you here in the very near future
of what the department's position is."
9:22:46 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON remarked:
Sooner or later the state is going to be faced with
the idea that there's a lot of Outside hunters coming
in, and there's going to be a point where the limit of
resources that they're coming up here for is going to
be [jeopardized]. ... How do you feel about
controlling that influx of [Outside hunters] coming in
to take our resources?
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL replied:
Under both state law and federal law subsistence use
of those resources has a clear priority. ... If there
is additional resource that is available over and
above the needs of subsistence use then that needs to
go to resident hunters. And then under state law, if
there is additional resource available, and only when
there's additional resource available, then I think
you have an adequate supply for out of state hunters.
But ... I think there's a clear hierarchy there of
uses of those resources and I think that's firmly
established in both law and in department policy.
9:24:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON asked what the moose population has to be
before the department enforces the law.
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL answered that the moose population will
vary by location relative to the local subsistence needs. He
explained, "You look at how many local subsistence users there
are and what their needs are and then after that you look at how
many resident hunters tend to use the hunt. And it varies for
every location."
9:25:15 AM
COMMISSIONER CAMPBELL returned to SB 113 and stated that he has
not had time to make himself fully knowledgeable on HB 113. He
noted that ADF&G is on record supporting the bill.
9:26:16 AM
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to forward the name of McKie
Campbell to the joint session of the House and Senate for
confirmation. There being no objection, the confirmation of
McKie Campbell was advanced from the House Special Committee on
Fisheries.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at 9:26:39
AM.
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