02/04/2004 08:31 AM House FSH
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
February 4, 2004
8:31 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair
Representative Cheryll Heinze
Representative Dan Ogg
Representative Ralph Samuels
Representative Les Gara
Representative David Guttenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 341
"An Act relating to the dive fishery management assessment."
- MOVED HB 341 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 341
SHORT TITLE: DIVE FISHERY MANAGEMENT ASSESSMENT
REPRESENTATIVE(s): WILLIAMS
01/12/04 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/2/04
01/12/04 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/12/04 (H) FSH, RES
02/04/04 (H) FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
TIM BARRY, Staff
to Representative William K. Williams
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 341 on behalf of
Representative Williams, who'd sponsored the bill at the request
of the Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association
(SARDFA).
JULIE DECKER, Executive Director
Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association
Wrangell, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified about the reasons for HB 341,
agreeing that it is a housekeeping measure and citing the sea
cucumber fishery as one for which a 1 percent reduction would
work well; answered questions.
PAT CASSIN, Commercial Diver;
Member, Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 341, emphasized the
need for current, accurate surveys and said there will be more
than $1 million lost to divers if no surveys are done.
CLAY BEZENEK, Member
Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries Association
Ketchikan, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: During hearing on HB 341, testified in
support of this incremental bill that provides flexibility and
agreed it is a housekeeping measure; answered questions,
providing details about the dive fisheries.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 04-3, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR PAUL SEATON called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 8:31 a.m. Representatives Seaton,
Wilson, Ogg, and Guttenberg were present at the call to order.
Representatives Gara, Samuels, and Heinze arrived as the meeting
was in progress.
HB 341-DIVE FISHERY MANAGEMENT ASSESSMENT
Number 0034
CHAIR SEATON announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE BILL NO. 341, "An Act relating to the dive fishery
management assessment."
Number 0054
REPRESENTATIVE OGG moved to adopt HB 341, the original version,
for discussion purposes.
CHAIR SEATON, who'd requested the motion, thanked Representative
Ogg and called on the sponsor's staff.
Number 0088
TIM BARRY, Staff to Representative William K. Williams, Alaska
State Legislature, presented HB 341 on behalf of Representative
Williams, sponsor. He said this is basically a housekeeping
measure requested by the Southeast Alaska Regional Dive
Fisheries Association (SARDFA) to give SARDFA more flexibility
in its operations; its members pay a tax based on a percentage
of the value of their landings in the various dive fisheries,
and revenue from that is spent on managing those fisheries.
MR. BARRY explained that under the current state law that
established SARDFA, its members elect to tax themselves at the
rate of 1, 3, 5, or 7 percent of the value of the catch. What
SARDFA is requesting, which HB 341 would do, is to allow the
option of also taxing themselves at 2, 4, or 6 percent. He
noted that on teleconference were SARDFA members and present
from the Department of Revenue was Chuck Harlamert, who deals
with collecting these taxes. Mr. Barry pointed out that there
is a zero fiscal note.
CHAIR SEATON recognized that Representatives Gara, Samuels, and
Heinze had joined the meeting.
Number 0300
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG requested a description of the dive
fisheries.
MR. BARRY deferred to the SARDFA members.
Number 0355
REPRESENTATIVE GARA offered his understanding that the bill just
relates to revenue, rather than changing any standards that
relate to how the dive fisheries are conducted and so forth.
MR. BARRY said that's correct.
CHAIR SEATON, following up on a remark by Representative Wilson,
noted that it allows going up or down 1 percent within the
current range of 1-7 percent.
Number 0438
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked where the monies from the tax go.
MR. BARRY pointed out that experts on teleconference knew more
than he, but offered his understanding that the Department of
Revenue collects the taxes, which then go through the Alaska
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G) to the "dive fish"
association, which has divers, processors, representatives of
various Southeastern Alaska communities, and [ADF&G personnel;
they jointly manage the fisheries. He asked that someone
correct him if that wasn't accurate.
Number 0567
JULIE DECKER, Executive Director, Southeast Alaska Regional Dive
Fisheries Association, explained that she has worked for SARDFA
since its creation in 1998. The original legislation was passed
in 1997 to allow for a dive fisheries association like SARDFA;
it allowed members to vote to tax themselves at 1, 3, 5, or 7
percent. Although the legislature couldn't turn over its power
to tax, she said it could allow [SARDFA members] to vote to
assess themselves at a certain percentage; those percentages had
to be laid out in the legislation.
MS. DECKER addressed questions that had been raised. She said
species now harvested are sea cucumbers, sea urchins, and
geoducks; assessments for those are 5 percent, 7 percent, and 5
percent, respectively. However, for sea cucumbers the 5 percent
assessment is a little more than needed; the extra has been
rolled over in an account to do special projects. Although
[SARDFA] is looking at possibly lowering that assessment,
lowering it to 3 percent would be a 40 percent reduction, which
would be too little [in revenues]; lowering it to 4 percent,
however, would appear to work well. That was one reason the
idea for this legislation came up, she reported.
MS. DECKER agreed this is a housekeeping measure. As to where
the money goes, she said right now it's the divers who pay the
tax; the processors collect the money from the divers, hold it,
and deposit it quarterly with the Department of Revenue; after
the legislature approves the appropriation, the Department of
Revenue transfers the funds to [ADF&G]. She explained that
every year [ADF&G] and SARDFA come to an agreement on an annual
operating plan that says how the money will be used; after the
plan is signed and the money transferred to the department,
[ADF&G] holds part of the money and transfers the rest to
SARDFA, depending on how it's been decided the funds will be
used each year.
Number 0783
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked what happens if there is a
disagreement between SARDFA and [ADF&G] about the allocation of
the money.
MS. DECKER said that hadn't happened yet; both groups have been
willing to compromise. Noting that the legislation says the
money cannot be expended until the agreement is signed, she
surmised that SARDFA would be in limbo until an agreement was
reached.
Number 0840
MS. DECKER, in response to a question from Representative
Heinze, explained why the sea urchin assessment is a little bit
higher. In part, the sea urchin fishery was new at the time and
was one reason for taking this route of creating SARDFA and
self-taxing. She said [ADF&G] was receiving budget cuts and had
taken the position that it didn't have any extra money to manage
new fisheries. Thus that is the only fishery of the three for
which a large part of the assessment goes directly to [ADF&G] to
pay only for management of the fishery; she said she believes it
is $35,000 a year. Previous to that, there was a voluntary
assessment from divers, and the Ketchikan Gateway Borough
chipped in money for management of the fishery.
MS. DECKER, in further response, clarified that $35,000 is only
the sea urchin management portion; [SARDFA] collects about
$200,000 to $225,000 a year "in the total assessment." As to
whether it's enough, she said it's only a part of what pays for
the fisheries; [ADF&G] still has some general fund monies that
it receives and puts toward management of sea cucumbers and part
of the management of geoducks. However, there was a need to go
into new areas, do surveys, and do water quality work, for
example, and there hadn't been money to do that in order to
develop and increase these fisheries; that's why there was a
decision to bring money to the table for increasing these
fisheries, which is where the idea for SARDFA came from.
Number 1037
MS. DECKER, in response to a question from Representative
Guttenberg, explained that management plans are adopted through
the Board of Fisheries for each fishery. One main component of
the dive fisheries is that [ADF&G personnel] do underwater
diving, assessing or counting the stocks in each area. It's not
only a management cornerstone, but is also an added expense,
since biologists go underwater and vessels are needed, for
example. Another cornerstone is assessing the resource prior to
opening any area for quotas. Before fishing takes place in the
geoduck fishery, an additional part - more related to the
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) - is that there
must be 15 sets of water quality tests in each harvest area, as
well as paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP) testing.
Number 1151
CHAIR SEATON mentioned proposed budgetary decrements relating to
[ADF&G]. Noting that sea cucumber surveys are slated for
elimination, he asked how much money that is and whether
[SARDFA] can pick up the surveys in order to manage the fishery.
MS. DECKER replied that [SARDFA's] sea cucumber committee and
board of directors will meet this week to discuss whether the
shortfall can be picked up. At eight days of survey time for
sea cucumbers at roughly $6,000 a day, she said she believes the
shortfall is about $50,000. If those budget cuts happen and
SARDFA doesn't fill in, there will be a direct reduction of
quota because those areas won't be open. "They do not open any
areas if they haven't been assessed first," she pointed out.
She added that SARDFA has some funds available, but it will be
the call of the board of directors.
Number 1287
PAT CASSIN, Commercial Diver; Member, Southeast Alaska Regional
Dive Fisheries Association, reported that he'd helped to start
the sea urchin fishery in Alaska and now dives about 239 days a
year for sea urchins and sea cucumbers. He said the tax money
collected the last three years directly resulted this year in
allowing the fishery to stay open an extra four weeks because of
new areas surveyed. Referring to budget cuts and the $50,000
for surveys mentioned previously, he said that would represent a
loss of more than $1 million to the divers alone. He emphasized
the need for current, accurate surveys.
Number 1399
CLAY BEZENEK, Member, Southeast Alaska Regional Dive Fisheries
Association, informed the committee that he retired from harvest
diving following an accident and now processes geoducks and
other species in Craig; he holds the processor seat on SARDFA
and was one of its founders. Speaking in support of the
"incremental bill," he said it will provide flexibility and is a
housekeeping measure.
MR. BEZENEK pointed out the difficulty of foreseeing everything
that was needed when SARDFA was formed, and said this is a
necessary tweak. As to the shortfall with regard to the sea
cucumber surveys, he said he would, of course, appreciate it if
the state funded the fisheries, because the money that comes
back is pretty incredible into the community in Southeast
Alaska. If not, however, he indicated SARDFA and ADF&G could
figure it out between them.
MR. BEZENEK indicated SARDFA has been trying to get ADF&G to
allow SARDFA to do some of the biological-statistician work
through independent subcontractors; suggesting now may be the
time, he said subcontracting is probably in the future, since
it's perhaps a little more expensive for the state to do it. He
closed by saying, "We'll be able to deal with it, whatever
direction you guys give, and I appreciate your support then and
now."
Number 1563
CHAIR SEATON asked whether the surveys are done with a sled and
videos or by divers.
MR. BEZENEK replied, "We do reconnaissance with sleds, ... but
the actual biological counting work is done on-bottom with, ...
usually, teams of two divers." Mentioning ADF&G, he indicated
harvest divers aren't allowed to participate in the surveys and
therefore don't know [the department's] protocol.
MR. BEZENEK pointed out that Canada is years ahead in most ways
of fishing, except for the salmon industry. He remarked, "In
the dive fisheries, we've pretty much looked at them because
they've been harvesting geoducks, cucumbers, and urchins for
about 25 years now, and they have the best, most successful
geoduck fishery in the world." He noted that Canada has a First
Nations member, two industry divers, and one representative of
the "biological community" to do surveying work, and he said
SARDFA is starting to lean "in that direction." He concluded,
"We still need the survey work done, and we've never ... budged
from that; we want good numbers, and in some of the fisheries, I
don't feel ... we're necessarily getting the greatest numbers.
But we've ... been patient, so that's where we're at."
Number 1699
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked how big the fishery is and how many
divers are active, diving on a regular basis.
MR. BEZENEK, suggesting Mr. Cassin probably knows better,
answered that the urchin fishery goes for the better part of the
year because the 15 or so divers aren't enough to take the whole
quota for Southeast Alaska. As for geoducks, the live fishery
has 40 to 45 divers, and $5.20 a pound was paid one week this
year, with a steady price over $4.00; by contrast, the average
price the previous year was $1.67, and the highest before that
was during a bidding war four or five years ago when the price
was $4.25. He credited this year's average price, which he
estimated at more than $4.00, to DEC's work with the divers,
SARDFA's legitimacy and having an executive director like
Ms. Decker, and having the legislature understand what SARDFA is
trying to accomplish.
MR. BEZENEK remarked, "We're as biologically active ... as any
group you'll ever see." He indicated overharvesting would
result in ending divers' ability to fish. Expressing pleasure
at how things have worked thus far, he said geoduck numbers
speak for themselves: last year the fishery's ex-vessel value
was $350,000 or $400,000, whereas this year he estimates it will
be about $1.2 million. He emphasized, however, that a lot of
area still needs to be biologically surveyed, with the clams
counted on the bottom. He also mentioned "the farm guys" who
have discovered there is money to be made. He expressed
appreciation for the legislature's support to date.
Number 1932
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked whether some of the money goes
towards research that allows the geoduck permitting. She also
asked how many permits have been issued for geoduck farming.
MR. BEZENEK explained that there are two separate fisheries, and
[SARDFA's] money goes to pay for the commercial fishery. He
said he doesn't believe the aquatic farmers have a tax-based
system set up to pay their way, and the state will end up paying
for that out of general fund money.
Number 2021
CHAIR SEATON closed public testimony.
Number 2035
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to report HB 341 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note. There being no objection, HB 341 was reported from the
House Special Committee on Fisheries.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Fisheries meeting was adjourned at
9:00 a.m.
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