Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/22/1995 05:02 PM House FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                             
                         March 22, 1995                                        
                           5:02 p.m.                                           
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
 Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman                                       
 Representative Carl Moses, Vice Chairman                                      
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Kim Elton                                                      
 Representative Scott Ogan                                                     
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
 HB 149:  "An Act relating to the Board of Fisheries; and providing            
          for an effective date."                                              
          HEARD AND HELD                                                       
 HB 208:  "An Act relating to seafood processing plans of operation            
          and seafood processing standard operating procedures;                
          relating to quality assurance plans; and providing for an            
          effective date."                                                     
          HEARD AND HELD                                                       
 HB 165:  "An Act relating to membership on the Board of Fisheries."           
          BILL HEARING CANCELLED                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES                                                  
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 State Capitol, Room 403                                                       
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone: 465-3438                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Prime sponsor of HB 149                                  
 BRUCE SCHACTLER                                                               
 Post Office Box 2254                                                          
 Kodiak, Alaska 99615                                                          
 Telephone: 486-4686                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 149                                           
 JOHN BOCCI                                                                    
 Cordova District Fishermen United                                             
 Post Office Box 939                                                           
 Cordova, Alaska 99574                                                         
 Telephone: 424-5182                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 149                                           
 MYRON NANAG, President                                                        
 Association of Village Council Presidents                                     
 Post Office Box 219                                                           
 Bethel, Alaska 99559                                                          
 Telephone: 543-3521                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 149                                         
 MIM ROBINSON, Chairman                                                        
 Port Alexander Fish and Game Advisory Committee                               
 Post Office Box 8045                                                          
 Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                           
 Telephone: 568-2236                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 149                                           
 LAURA RIDEOUT                                                                 
 Post Office Box 8045                                                          
 Port Alexander, Alaska 99836                                                  
 Telephone: 568-2263                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 149                                           
 JERRY McCUNE, President                                                       
 United Fishermen of Alaska                                                    
 211 4th Street, Suite 112                                                     
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone: 586-2820                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 149                                           
 DEAN PADDOCK                                                                  
 Bristol Bay Driftnetters Association                                          
 Post Office Box 21951                                                         
 Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                          
 Telephone: 463-4970                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed Concerns with HB 149                           
 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison                                              
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                            
 Post Office Box 25526                                                         
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone: 465-6143                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed Concerns with HB 149                           
 CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant                                       
 Representative Carl Moses                                                     
 State Capitol, Room 204                                                       
 Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                     
 Telephone: 465-4451                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 JANICE ADAIR, Regional Director                                               
 Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation                               
 3601 C Street, Suite 1334                                                     
 Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                       
 Telephone: 563-6529                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 DAVE CHOQUETTE, President                                                     
 Alaska Choice Seafoods                                                        
 4611 Gambell Street                                                           
 Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                       
 Telephone: 563-4666                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 DOUG DONEGAN, Vice President                                                  
 Trident Seafood Corporation                                                   
 5011 East Jewell Lake Road                                                    
 Anchorage, Alaska 99502                                                       
 Telephone: 243-3166                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 JIM YONKER, Director                                                          
 Ocean Beauty Seafoods, Inc.                                                   
 Post Office Box 70739                                                         
 Seattle, Washington 98107                                                     
 Telephone: (206) 285-6800                                                     
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 KEN ROEHMILDT, Superintendent                                                 
 North Pacific Processors                                                      
 Post Office Box 741                                                           
 Cordova, Alaska 99574                                                         
 Telephone: 424-7111                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 HAP SYMMONDS, Plant Manager                                                   
 St. Elias Seafood Products                                                    
 Post Office Box 548                                                           
 Cordova, Alaska 99574                                                         
 Telephone: 424-7171                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 GERALD MASOLINI, Owner/Operator                                               
 Eyak Packing Company                                                          
 Post Office Box 1131                                                          
 Cordova, Alaska 99574                                                         
 Telephone: 424-5300                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 CHUCK JENSON                                                                  
 East Point Seafoods                                                           
 Post Office Box 1637                                                          
 Kodiak, Alaska 99615                                                          
 Telephone: 486-5799                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist                                                         
 Pacific Seafoods Processor Association                                        
 321 Highland Drive                                                            
 Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                          
 Telephone: 586-6366                                                           
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 208                                         
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
 BILL:  HB 149                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: RESTRUCTURE BOARD OF FISHERIES                                   
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BARNES, Mulder                                  
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 02/03/95       235    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/03/95       235    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                                
 02/06/95       255    (H)   FSH REFERRAL ADDED                                
 03/17/95              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                       
 03/22/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 BILL:  HB 208                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: SEAFOOD PROCESSING STANDARDS                                     
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MOSES, Austerman, Williams, Mackie,             
 Grussendorf, Elton, Kubina                                                    
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 02/27/95       502    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/27/95       503    (H)   FISHERIES                                         
 03/22/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 BILL:  HB 165                                                               
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY,Toohey                                    
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 02/08/95       272    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/08/95       273    (H)   FSH, RES                                          
 03/01/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 03/01/95              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                       
 03/17/95              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                       
 03/22/95              (H)   FSH AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
 TAPE 95-19, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 The House Special Committee on Fisheries was called to order by               
 Chairman Alan Austerman at 5:02 p.m.  Members present at the call             
 to order were Representatives Davis, Elton and Ogan.  The meeting             
 was on teleconference with Anchorage, Bethel, Cordova, Kodiak,                
 Sitka and Seattle, Washington.                                                
 HFSH - 03/22/95                                                              
 HB 149 - RESTRUCTURE BOARD OF FISHERIES                                
 Number 034                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES opened with these remarks:  "HB 149 is           
 an effort to reduce the role politics play in a process of placing            
 members on the fisheries board.  The bill, which is identical to              
 one introduced by the Senate President, would reduce the membership           
 of the board of fisheries to three and lengthen the terms of office           
 for members to four years.  The members would, as presently, serve            
 staggered terms.  Fisheries board members would be full-time state            
 employees and would be compensated based on range 26, step C."                
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES went on to quote state laws dealing with the            
 appointment of Board of Fish members.  She quoted, "On the basis of           
 interest in public affairs, good judgement, knowledge and ability             
 in the feel of action of the board and with a view toward providing           
 diversity of interest and points of view of the membership."  She             
 went on to say that in fact, the members of the board have been               
 appointed in the past on the basis of where they live and what they           
 do for a living.                                                              
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES specified, "A provision in HB 149 would                 
 prohibit the Governor from appointing to the board, anyone who has            
 a vested economic interest in the fisheries.  This provision is               
 endorsed by individuals and groups which include, the Kenai River             
 Sports Fishing, Inc."  She then quoted Ben Ellis, Executive                   
 Director of that sports association with comments he made to the              
 Senate Resources Committee on February 20, 1995.  He stated at that           
 time, "We must have a board that is prohibited from any economic              
 vested interest.  It appears more and more board members are being            
 conflicted out for financial or personal interest.  We must have a            
 level playing field, where decisions are made in the best interests           
 of Alaskan's and the state.  There is public perception that the              
 board of fisheries is biased towards the financial profits of a few           
 commercial users at the expense of thousands of noncommercial                 
 users.  I believe that the concept of a full-time board is a good             
 one.  Members would be more likely to act in the interest of the              
 state as a whole.  The provisions that forbids a board member from            
 having a vested economic interest will encouraged appointments to             
 the board that will make impartial decisions."                                
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asserted her strong feelings for Alaska's               
 Constitution.  She cited, "Under Article 8, Section 3, the fish and           
 game and water resources belong to all the people of the state.               
 Admittedly, the people of the state allowed an amendment for                  
 commercial limited entry."  She recognized, that is the only                  
 special provision that has be approved by the people.  But she went           
 on to state, "They did not give an exclusive right of fishery to              
 commercial fishermen, nor did they give it to subsistence fishermen           
 or to sports fishermen or personal consumptive users.  Those                  
 resources belong to all the people."  She expressed hope that                 
 through a different type of board, all the people of this state               
 will be treated in a fair and equal manner.                                   
 Number 128                                                                    
 Representative Moses joined the meeting at 5:03 p.m.                          
 Number 129                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE KIM ELTON asked Representative Barnes if she would             
 be amenable to an amendment that would prohibit sport fishing                 
 guides or people who are involved in other commercial fishing                 
 components of the resource industry.                                          
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES responded in the affirmative.  She said, "I             
 don't believe anyone that holds a special interest in this fishery,           
 whether it be sports fishing guides or air taxi operators that fly            
 people out to fish, should be on this board.  I think it should be            
 one that is knowledgeable of the resource, but has no vested                  
 Number 150                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES asked Representative Barnes if it was her           
 intent to eliminate all sports fishermen from serving on the board,           
 as well.                                                                      
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES commented, "As long as a person did not have            
 an economic interest.  And that would include sports fish guides,             
 that would have an economic interest.  I would see them eliminated.           
 However, I can't say that a person that just goes out with a hook             
 and line should be eliminated, because they have no direct                    
 commercial interest in the board.  But I do believe that it should            
 be professional type people, who have a knowledge of the resource,            
 appointed to these boards."                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE MOSES followed up with a question about subsistence            
 users and their economic interests.                                           
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES again responded, "I believe it should be a              
 board made up that takes into view, the people of all the state of            
 Alaska in a professional way and not any one group of people."                
 Number 175                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked Representative Barnes that given              
 those parameters, who is going to serve on this board.  He further            
 asked how the board would be structured, so that it would be                  
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES again reiterated her strong compassion for              
 the Constitution of Alaska.  She asserted, "I believe the fish and            
 game resources should be maintained on a sustained yield principle,           
 for all the people of the state, for their beneficial use.  Not               
 users, the beneficial use of all the people.  I believe that there            
 are a lot of people, like myself in this state, that care about the           
 resources and could go on a board professionally and make the                 
 decisions based on professional judgement, not on what is best for            
 one particular user group."                                                   
 Number 229                                                                    
 BRUCE SCHACTLER testified via teleconference from Kodiak, and                 
 voiced his opposition to HB 149.  He commented, "They want a board            
 that will vote pro sport fish."  He went on to compliment the                 
 current Board of Fish by saying, "This may be one of the better               
 boards they have come up with.  They're just unbelievably ready to            
 delve into every aspect of the fishery and nitpick every single               
 detail, that they can get their hands on."  He further stated, "If            
 you look at some of these other professional boards, you'll see               
 that the requirements for being a board member are very stringent.            
 They have to have degrees.  They have to have experience."  He                
 added, "This will put a bunch of people on the board that maybe               
 have no idea what it is that they're talking about.  It might take            
 them three or four years to even get them on line."  He again                 
 mentioned that the present board is good and that the entire                  
 industry has had input into fine tuning the present board.                    
 MR. SCHACTLER informed the committee, that he felt most of the                
 sport fishermen can go out and catch as much fish as they can                 
 possibly use.  He remarked, "I think most of the people that are              
 out there sport fishing are catching more than they can possibly              
 eat and there's a lot of waste going on."  He further mentioned, "I           
 think that you'll find that everything really is pretty good,                 
 except for a few people, who have got everybody all worked up."               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES responded, "I was not looking for a special             
 interest board, to protect sports fishing.  I'm glad to hear, that            
 he thinks that the board we now have, is a good board.  I'm sure it           
 is one of the better boards that we've had in a long time.  I                 
 remember all the hassles that we went through to get this better              
 board.  It is my opinion and my belief, that you would not have               
 controversy surrounding this board, if the boards in the past had             
 taken care to look at the sustained yield principle.  Had they                
 taken care to look at the needs of all the different user groups,             
 then there would be no need to have a bill like this."                        
 Number 340                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN remarked that he is upset with people from the            
 sports side and the commercial side of this issue.  He voiced his             
 opinion that everybody loses if we don't start managing this thing            
 as a resource.  Everybody needs to pull together on this issue.               
 Number 355                                                                    
 JOHN BOCCI testified via teleconference from Cordova, representing            
 Cordova District Fishermen United, opposing HB 149.  He stated for            
 the record, "It is our opinion that HB 149 is an overreaction to a            
 newly developing problem, being created more by pressure on the               
 fishery resource, due in part to increased tourism and the Mat-Su             
 Valley population growth.  Instead of gutting the system that we're           
 involved in here, I urge the legislature to keep the lay board                
 structure, amend it gradually and give those gradual changes an               
 opportunity to work.  A very good recommendation was put forward by           
 the Governor's Fishery Transition Team, with representatives from             
 all user groups.  One suggestion is reflected by HB 141,                      
 confirmation before serving.  Another way to ensure adequate                  
 funding is to ensure adequate funding for the Alaska Department of            
 Fish and Game and the local advisory board.  All of which had their           
 budget slashed over the last several years, making it more                    
 difficult to put forward a proper management plan to assure there             
 are enough fish for everyone.  There's no language in HB 149 that             
 sets criteria for participation, other than they have no interest             
 in commercial fishing.  Yet there's no definition of commercial               
 fishing, the way I see it.  We really don't believe it will                   
 depoliticize the board."                                                      
 Number 385                                                                    
 MYRON NANAG, President, Association of Village Council Presidents,            
 testified via teleconference from Bethel.  He encouraged the state            
 legislature to look at the current Board of Fish.  He said it is              
 not working for the conservation of the fisheries.  He stated, "In            
 1993, we had a crash in the Alaska Yukon/Kuskokwim (AYK) area.                
 Nobody wanted to take the responsibility for the crash, but our               
 people have had to bear that burden of conservation in the river              
 system over the years."  They have been to the Board of Fish many             
 times to inform them about the resource.                                      
 MR. NANAG went on to share some remarks made at the February Board            
 of Fish meeting.  He disclosed that the chairman of the board,                
 listened to presentations by the ADF&G about the united stock                 
 studies on the catch ratios of the chums heading to the AYK area.             
 The Chair stated that he was not convinced that the stocks that               
 were heading to Western Alaska, are threatened or endangered.  Mr.            
 Nanag remarked, "If that is the criteria that is going to be used             
 by the Board of Fish system and they're not concerned about the               
 conservation of the resource, then something has to give."  He went           
 on to specify, "The subsistence has been closed for the last two              
 years on the Kuskokwim River as well as on the Yukon.  The                    
 commercial fisheries along the migratory route, further south, have           
 been open.  They have not been closed.  They've been delayed, but             
 opened.  Why have they been delayed?  The only thing they're                  
 concerned about is their allocation, the 8.3 percent allocation of            
 the Bristol Bay sockeye.  But they don't have any concern about the           
 resource itself."                                                             
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES appreciated Mr. Nanag's comments.  She said             
 that it's comments like these that she has been hearing for a long            
 time.  She stated, "The interest of the resource has to be                    
 protected, through a different type of board system."                         
 Number 446                                                                    
 MIM ROBINSON, Chairmen, Port Alexander Fish and Game Advisory                 
 Committee, testified via teleconference from Port Alexander, in               
 opposition to this bill.  She cited part of the text from the                 
 Fisheries Management Alternative Senate Advisory Council of the               
 Alaska State Legislature, October 1987, concerning a full-time                
 board.  She read, "Number one, a professional board would simply              
 add another layer of bureaucracy, with its intended inefficiencies            
 and tendencies to invent work, formalize and impede the process and           
 unnecessarily intrude into situations which do not warrant                    
 regulatory action.  Number two, a professional board could not                
 duplicate the wide scope of expertise found on the current user               
 board.  The type of people willing to serve on a board, would be              
 those who lacked personal commitment to the fishing lifestyle or              
 were unsuccessful on fishermen and thus would be unqualified for              
 service.  Eminently qualified people who were unwilling to                    
 relinquish their interest, would be unavailable."                             
 MS. ROBINSON still testifying said, "Number three, a professional             
 board would not eliminate conflict of interest, since any member              
 appointed would certainly bring with him or her an agenda and                 
 perspective developed as a result of previous experience,                     
 regardless of whether any economic or institutional ties to the               
 resource existed.  Certain perspectives, such as the regulatory or            
 academics would assume unjustified precedent over those of user               
 groups."  She went on to mention another study that had been done             
 and a report to the Governor on the Board of Fisheries review                 
 committee of February 1988.  She cited the following, "While it is            
 recognized by the committee that conflict of interests and special            
 interest biases, can be and has at times been a problem with board            
 members, the unanimous view of the committee and a majority view              
 received from the public, supports appointments to the board of               
 persons with hands on knowledge of, and experience with fisheries             
 resources and sport, commercial, subsistence and personal use                 
 fishery."  She also asked the committee to consider placing the               
 conservation decision making authority within the ADF&G, to rid the           
 board of the dual pressure of conservation and allocation                     
 Number 491                                                                    
 LAURA RIDEOUT testified via teleconference from Port Alexander, in            
 opposition to HB 149.  She felt that it needed to be a board of               
 seven men or women who have a working knowledge of the fisheries.             
 She also urged enough funding for ADF&G and its advisory board to             
 ensure proper management.                                                     
 Number 500                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN thank Representative Barnes and excused her for            
 another meeting.                                                              
 Number 502                                                                    
 JERRY McCUNE, President, United Fishermen of Alaska (UFA),                    
 testified that they do not support HB 149, but do support the                 
 current lay board system.  He felt that a lay board system brings             
 in people from all over the state with a broad knowledge of the               
 fishery.  He pointed out that even the Governor's transition team             
 recommended keeping the present lay board system.  He also stated             
 that UFA had a problem with the section of the bill that says, the            
 full-time board won't accept any commercial fishermen.  He                    
 explained that about 48 people turned out on the Senate side in               
 opposition to this proposal.  The conflict of interest issue does             
 need to be addressed and could be done so by the introduction of              
 legislation.  He also thought that the sponsor brought a lot of               
 attention to the board system with the introduction of this bill.             
 He stated, "The board is not cure for all the salmon runs,                    
 especially in river systems.  We get into river systems and it's              
 management.  Some of it's management, healthy runs, habitat,                  
 sustain yield and ocean survival has a lot to do with it."  He                
 further said, "I think we have to face up to the fact that there's            
 only so much resource to go around in this state and the use is               
 getting higher every year.  All the users would like to have their            
 share."  Additionally he remarked, "Mr. Ogan's suggestion is good.            
 I think the sport fishermen, the subsistence and everybody need to            
 realize that there is only so much resource and sit down to the               
 table and see what we can do for all the users to be able to have             
 access to that resource."                                                     
 Number 557                                                                    
 DEAN PADDOCK, spoke on behalf of the Bristol Bay Driftnetters                 
 Association, with concerns about HB 149.  He complimented anyone              
 who seeks to improve the board process.  He digressed about how               
 there are problems with several aspects of the current process and            
 how the problems seem so much more complicated.  His main concern             
 with this proposal was expressed, "I don't think there are three              
 people anywhere capable of addressing all these statewide issues              
 adequately."  He mentioned that it is implied in this proposal that           
 the seven people we now have aren't doing it adequately.  He                  
 further commented, "The legislature has often failed to adequately            
 fund the Board of Fisheries, to allow it to meet its statutory                
 responsibilities.  The one responsibility that I see that it has              
 seldom had time to adequately address, is that responsibility for             
 providing policies for the ADF&G."  He has seen the board disregard           
 public testimony and accept the ADF&G recommendations.  He feels              
 that ADF&G doesn't supply enough information to the Board of Fish.            
 Number 659                                                                    
 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Alaska Department of Fish & Game            
 (ADF&G), testified with concerns about HB 149.  He indicated that             
 the Governor does support the citizen board process, but is                   
 concerned about what the citizens feel might improve the process.             
 He reiterated earlier comments with, "One of the reasons we have a            
 citizen board is because it provides an opportunity for the                   
 affected public to directly participate in making the decisions               
 that affect their effecting.  And you get a high degree of local              
 knowledge about the fisheries in the state that way and you get a             
 lot of industry expertise that way, at very little cost to the                
 state.  Whereas, if you had to go out and staff up, so to speak, to           
 gain that kind of expertise, it would be very expensive."                     
 Additionally he reported that, "Even by shrinking the board down to           
 three members, it still adds over $200,000 in cost to the                     
 regulatory process."  Further he stated, "Coming out of the                   
 territorial period, where the managers and the folks responsible              
 for regulating the resources did not listen to the people of Alaska           
 - in fact, did things that the people of Alaska objected to for               
 many, many years and did not change until the state took over                 
 management authority.  The original people who set up the board               
 process looked at that and saw that it was better to have the                 
 public directly involved in the regulatory process than to have it            
 done completely by bureaucrats or professional people, that did not           
 have that local tie to the decisions that are being made."  He felt           
 that going to a professional board is not going to eliminate the              
 conflicts and the controversies regarding fisheries decisions                 
 within the state.                                                             
 TAPE 95-19, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
 MR. BRUCE continued testifying with concerns about HB 149.  He                
 remarked, "I think that the sponsors of this legislation here and             
 in the Senate are to be thanked for providing a vehicle to discuss            
 the board system."                                                            
 Number 014                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Bruce if he felt the current board              
 was managing the fisheries resource on a resource-based management            
 that adheres to the sustained yield principle.                                
 MR. BRUCE responded in the affirmative.  He pointed to the historic           
 high harvest that Alaska has been enjoying for more than a decade.            
 He compared that to the kind of condition the resources were in at            
 the end of the federal period.  He thought that they were doing a             
 good job in managing on the sustained yield basis.  He stated,                
 "This does not mean that there aren't problems in the state, where            
 we are failing to meet our goals.  Certainly, Mr. Nanag earlier               
 spoke to one of the most difficult problems we're facing in Western           
 Alaska.  I know there is some concerns you have and your                      
 constituents have your area."  He further related, "As I listen to            
 the conflicts and the reasons people are unhappy with the board               
 system, it seems to really be more focused on the distribution of             
 work that the board does in allocating harvest among different                
 Number 052                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN indicated that the return to the Susitna River            
 drainage has been low.  He asked if all the Cook Inlet stocks are             
 managed for the Kenai River.  He also asked if the leftovers run up           
 the Susitna Inlet.                                                            
 MR. BRUCE felt that it was not an accurate statement.  He                     
 specified, "Certainly in the case where you have the Kenai River on           
 a particular year, being extremely strong, it becomes a very big              
 factor and perhaps a dominating factor in the management of Cook              
 Inlet.  He further mentioned, "In the case of Sockeye salmon, the             
 escapements to the Susitna drainage have been improving.  So I                
 think the ADF&G has been taking measures there to try and get more            
 fish up into the Susitna Basin.  In the case of Chinook salmon, the           
 Kenai River does not drive Chinook salmon management in Cook Inlet            
 at all."                                                                      
 Number 111                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE GARY DAVIS was looking at the fiscal note and asked            
 Mr. Bruce if this note was in addition to the current board                   
 expenditures or is this note the cost of the new proposal.                    
 MR. BRUCE responded that the fiscal note attached to HB 149 was               
 additional costs.                                                             
 Number 124                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked Mr. Bruce what the current expenditures              
 were for the Board of Fish.                                                   
 MR. BRUCE responded that the total board support section is $1.6              
 million with about $1 million going to the Board of Fish and the              
 Board of Game combined.  The $600,000 left over is for support of             
 the Fish and Game Advisory Committee.                                         
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked Mr. Bruce if the $1 million for the two              
 boards is split equally.                                                      
 MR. BRUCE responded that they are not split equally, because the              
 Board of Fish have more meeting days.  He indicated that the                  
 difference was slightly more for the Board of Fish but could not              
 give an exact figure.                                                         
 Number 140                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON had a few suggestions to make, since the                 
 intent is to hold this bill.  With concern he said, "Right now we             
 have seven people that are kind of going out and rubbing shoulders            
 in regions all across the state.  I make the argument, not enough             
 regions of the state or not the right regions of the state, but               
 that's a political argument, so I won't do it.  The other concern             
 that I have about that, is that if we create a professional board             
 of three people, what we're going to end up doing is putting three            
 people in a state office building in an urban area.  They're going            
 to have a professional support staff.  I think that people who are            
 concerned that the board right now is a captive of the professional           
 staff, they don't know what being a captive is until you've got               
 three bureaucrats sitting in a state office building."                        
 REPRESENTATIVE ELTON also asserted, "I think we've had a lot of               
 success with the current board structure.  I think maybe one of the           
 ways you gauge that success is you take a look at what the                    
 traditional harvest was in the mid-1970s.  I think it dropped to a            
 low of 22 million fish.  Over the last three or four years, as Mr.            
 Bruce has noted, we've approach a harvest of 200 million fish."  He           
 also mentioned that we have the ADF&G who have the resources to get           
 the basic research that's needed to manage a very complex fishery.            
 He went on to say that when we diminish the ADF&G's ability to                
 accomplish that research, we're diminishing the ability of the                
 board to make judgments on resource allocations that are based on             
 science, rather than antidote.                                                
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN revealed that was one of the reasons why he                
 wanted to hold all these similar bills and discuss each one and get           
 a flavor for what the real problems are.  He felt that the                    
 committee could then reach a consensus on what to do and even come            
 out with a policy statement on the Board of Fish.                             
 Number 223                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN expressed concern that there are people in this           
 state that do not feel the resource is being managed for the                  
 resource.  He felt that the Board of Fish fails to respond                    
 adequately at times to problems and so you have bills that come               
 forth like this one.  He indicated that he was supporting this bill           
 for the sake of discussion.  He again encouraged the groups to get            
 Number 260                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN set forth that HB 149 would be held.                       
 HFSH - 03/22/95                                                              
 HB 208 - SEAFOOD PROCESSING STANDARDS                                        
 Number 269                                                                    
 CHERYL SUTTON, Administrative Assistant to Representative Moses,              
 testified on his behalf as the prime sponsor of this bill.  She               
 specified, "HB 208 addresses one area of a changing seafood                   
 industry.  This is the area of seafood inspection through Hazard              
 Analysis Critical Control Point (HACCP) planning.  Currently, the             
 federal government, through the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)            
 is proposing to adopt regulations to ensure the safe processing and           
 monitoring of fish and fishery products.  HB 208 will mirror the              
 requirements adopted by the FDA in state statute and will replace             
 the current plans of operation with a HACCP plan.  The HACCP system           
 will produce a more efficient system for ensuring the safety of               
 seafood products than currently exist.  The effective date of the             
 Act will also mirror the adoption of the federal rule.                        
 International trade is also a major consideration in determining              
 the advisability and benefits of a new system of seafood                      
 regulation.  Both Canada and the European community have                      
 implemented or are in the process of implementing mandatory HACCP             
 based seafood inspection programs.  Failure by the United States to           
 adopt a mandatory HACCP based inspection system and failure by                
 Alaska, may ultimately undermine its export success with                      
 considerable economic consequence."                                           
 Number 318                                                                    
 JANICE ADAIR, Regional Director, Department of Environmental                  
 Conservation, testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in                 
 support of the concept behind this legislation and is working with            
 Ms. Sutton on the committee substitute.                                       
 Number 325                                                                    
 DAVE CHOQUETTE, President, Alaska Choice Seafoods, testified via              
 teleconference from Anchorage, in wholehearted support of HB 208.             
 He stated, "We feel that the bill will go a long way towards                  
 strengthening the relationship between the industry and the                   
 regulatory agency.  We also feel the harmonizing effect this bill             
 will have in bringing a universal understanding of the regulation             
 through the HACCP program."                                                   
 Number 372                                                                    
 DOUG DONEGAN, Vice President, Trident Seafoods Corporation,                   
 testified via teleconference from Anchorage, in strong support of             
 HB 208.  He stated, "We believe it will reduce duplication of                 
 efforts for industry in the state and it will continue to protect             
 the safety of the consumers in Alaska seafood products."                      
 Number 388                                                                    
 JIM YONKER, Director, Ocean Beauty Seafoods, testified via                    
 teleconference from Seattle, Washington, in support of HB 208.  He            
 also thanked ADEC's efforts and the legislature in working together           
 to bring this special program on line.                                        
 Number 400                                                                    
 KEN ROEHMILDT, Superintendent, North Pacific Processors, testified            
 via teleconference from Cordova, in support of this bill.  He                 
 stated, "HB 208 provides a level of inspection that is acceptable             
 to me as a processor and demanded by consumers worldwide."  He went           
 on to say, "We Alaskan processors currently operate at higher costs           
 than outside processors and to remain in business we must not                 
 increase our costs beyond what is absolutely necessary."                      
 Number 417                                                                    
 HAP SYMMONDS, Plant Manager, St. Elias Seafood Products, testified            
 via teleconference from Cordova, in support of HB 208.  He                    
 commented, "This bill will bring HACCP regulations under one roof             
 with ADEC, FDA and the European union regulations being the same.             
 It will make it more streamlined for plant managers and for plant             
 quality control people to follow the regulations.  This will ensure           
 that products produced in an approved plant would not be denied               
 their place in the market, due to a minor technicality."                      
 Number 427                                                                    
 GERALD MASOLINI, Owner/Operator, Eyak Packing, testified via                  
 teleconference from Cordova, in support of HB 208.  He thanked both           
 Representative Moses and his aide, Cheryl Sutton, for all the work            
 they have done.                                                               
 Number 439                                                                    
 CHUCK JENSON, East Point Seafoods, testified via teleconference               
 from Kodiak, in full support of HB 208.  He stated, "Harmonizing              
 these state regulations with the federal regulations does nothing             
 but make sense."                                                              
 Number 461                                                                    
 RICK LAUBER, Lobbyist, Pacific Seafoods Processor Association,                
 testified in support of HB 208.  He remarked, "Not only is this a             
 good bill for processors and fishermen, but it's also a very good             
 bill for the public."  He added, "We won't have to conform to a               
 multitude of regulations.  One of our big problems has been                   
 conforming with foreign nations and the various treaties and trade            
 Number 494                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE DAVIS commented that he likes this bill.                       
 REPRESENTATIVE MOSES commented in jest, that we should just go                
 ahead and move the committee substitute out now.                              
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made referrals to the General Agreement on                
 Trade and Tariffs (GATT) and the North American Free Trade                    
 Agreement (NAFTA) and how these policies relate to this bill.                 
 Number 507                                                                    
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN again indicated that HB 208 would be held.                 
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the meeting at 6:16 p.m.                         

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