Legislature(2025 - 2026)

02/05/2025 09:01 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
09:01:15 AM Start
09:02:34 AM Overview Funding Status Pers and Trs
10:39:52 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 5, 2025                                                                                           
                         9:01 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:01:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman   called  the  Senate   Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:01 a.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Mike Cronk                                                                                                              
Senator James Kaufman                                                                                                           
Senator Jesse Kiehl                                                                                                             
Senator Kelly Merrick                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donny Olson, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Kathy Lea,  Director, Division  of Retirement  and Benefits,                                                                    
Department  of  Administration;  Christopher  Novell,  Chief                                                                    
Financial  Officer,  Division  of Retirement  and  Benefits,                                                                    
Department of Administration; Senator Cathy Giessel.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
David Kershner,     Lead   Actuary  for   the  Division   of                                                                    
Retirement and  Benefits, Arthur  J. Gallagher  and Company,                                                                    
South Carolina.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW FUNDING STATUS PERS and TRS                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:02:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHY LEA,  DIRECTOR, DIVISION  OF RETIREMENT  AND BENEFITS,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, (DOA) introduced herself                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:02:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTOPHER  NOVELL, CHIEF  FINANCIAL  OFFICER, DIVISION  OF                                                                    
RETIREMENT  AND  BENEFITS,   DEPARTMENT  OF  ADMINISTRATION,                                                                    
introduced himself.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:02:58 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea discussed the  presentation, "Funding Status Update"                                                                    
(copy on file).  She looked at slide  2, "Organization  PERS                                                                    
/ TRS." She  pointed to slide 3, "Membership(as  of June 30,                                                                    
2024) She addressed slide 4, "Investment Experience":                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The actuarial value of assets was reinitialized to                                                                         
     equal, fair value as of June 30, 2014, with the $3                                                                         
     Billion infusion from HB 119.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Beginning in FY 2015, the valuation method recognizes                                                                      
     20 percent of the investment gain or loss each year                                                                        
     for five years ("Smoothing").                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Novell  discussed  slide  5,  "Funded  Status   Pension                                                                    
($000's)                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  requested  information  about  the  $5.45                                                                    
billion unfunded  liability, and  whether it  was increasing                                                                    
or decreasing over time.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell replied that he  recalled that it was around that                                                                    
marked for some time.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:09:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  wondered   whether  the  information  was                                                                    
considered at a critical stage,  or normal compared to other                                                                    
retirement funds.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell replied  that Alaska was toward  the bottom third                                                                    
of the nation in terms of a funded liability.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  asked  whether   that  was  a  cause  for                                                                    
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell deferred to Mr. Kershner.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:11:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID KERSHNER,     LEAD   ACTUARY  FOR   THE  DIVISION   OF                                                                    
RETIREMENT AND  BENEFITS, ARTHUR  J. GALLAGHER  AND COMPANY,                                                                    
SOUTH  CAROLINA  (via  teleconference), explained  that  the                                                                    
funded ratio was  a point in time, so it  was not an overall                                                                    
picture.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:16:23 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:20:45 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:20:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman remarked that  examining the history of the                                                                    
defined benefit plan, and remarked  that there was a current                                                                    
concern about pension.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  asked for the  history of the  pension and                                                                    
health care information.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea agreed to provide that information.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked about the actuarial issue as well.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kershner agreed to provide that information.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:27:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kiehl  remarked  that   the  2014  changes  by  the                                                                    
legislature were  a conscious decision to  make the payments                                                                    
in the future. He queried the impact of that decision.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:28:07 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Kershner   agreed,  and  stated   that  in   2014,  the                                                                    
amortization method had changed by that decision.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kiehl appreciated the full picture.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:30:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Novell looked  at slide  6, "Funded  Status  HealthCare                                                                    
($000's)    He  pointed  to slide  7,  "Funded  Ratio   PERS                                                                    
Pension   and   HealthCare(Based  on   Actuarial   Valuation                                                                    
Reports)   He addressed slide 8,  "Funded Ratio  TRS Pension                                                                    
and HealthCare(Based on Actuarial Valuation Reports)                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:32:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Novell addressed  slide 8,  "Funded Ratio   TRS Pension                                                                    
and  HealthCare(Based on  Actuarial Valuation  Reports)   He                                                                    
displayed  slide  9,  "Correlation between  Actual  Rate  of                                                                    
Return and Funded Ratio Pension only PERS                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:35:58 AM                                                                                                                    
AT EASE                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:36:31 AM                                                                                                                    
RECONVENED                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:38:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Kiehl   wondered   whether   the   difference   in                                                                    
methodology accounted for 50 basis points or more.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kershner replied  that he was not sure if  the slide was                                                                    
accurate.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:40:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  looked  at   slide  9,  and  requested  a                                                                    
footnote because of the confusion.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman specified that the  years 2000 and 2001 did                                                                    
not show the actual figures.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kaufman  asked for the  target and  the relationship                                                                    
to the target.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell  replied that  he would  work with  Department of                                                                    
Revenue (DOR) and provide that information.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:44:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Novell  highlighted   slide  10,  "Correlation  between                                                                    
Actual Rate of  Return and Funded Ratio   Pension only TRS                                                                      
He addressed slide 13, "Additional State Contributions                                                                          
History (whole dollars)                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:49:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman queried the total number selection.                                                                            
Mr. Novell replied that the  $8.5 billion was all the totals                                                                    
up to 2006.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman wondered  whether  the  number was  normal                                                                    
cost or past service cost.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell replied that it was the past service cost.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  surmised that  it  was  the past  service                                                                    
cost.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Novell   discussed   slide   14,   "Additional   State                                                                    
Contributions   Projected (whole  dollars)    He pointed  to                                                                    
slide 15,  "Additional State Contributions and  Past Service                                                                    
Cost PERS (whole dollars)                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  queried the  22  percent  and what  might                                                                    
occur to claims above that percentage.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell  replied that  it was the  statutory rate  set by                                                                    
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:56:48 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Novell   addressed   slide   16,   "Additional   State                                                                    
Contributions and  Past Service  Cost TRS  (whole dollars)                                                                      
He  displayed slide  17, "FY2026  Contribution Rates  Health                                                                    
Plan  Zero  Normal Cost Impact on  Contribution Rates (whole                                                                    
dollars)                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:58:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell  pointed to slide  18, "HealthCare  Trusts Funded                                                                    
Level He addressed slide 19, "FY2026 Contribution Rates                                                                         
Defined Benefit Plans                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:07:43 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell discussed slide 20, "FY2026 Contribution Rates                                                                       
Defined Contribution Plans                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell pointed to slide 21, "Contribution Rates                                                                             
History                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kaufman asked why the actuarial rate was large.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea  replied  that  the employer  rate  was  capped  by                                                                    
statute, and  the actuarial  rate was the  cap needed  to be                                                                    
fully funding in the year.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:09:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell  addressed slide  22, "Projected  Pension Benefit                                                                    
Recipients                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell  looked at slide 23,  "Projected Pension Benefits                                                                    
Payment ($000's)                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman wondered why it was so long.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kershner relayed  that that the slide was  for those who                                                                    
were currently receiving and anticipated pensioners.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:14:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Lea pointed  to slide  24,  "AlaskaCare Employer  Group                                                                    
Waiver Plan":                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     •  An Employer  Group  Waiver Plan  (EGWP)  is a  group                                                                    
     Medicare Part D prescription drug plan option.                                                                             
     • EGWP provides a direct  subsidy which allows it to be                                                                    
     considered when  calculating the  Other Post-Employment                                                                    
     Benefits  (OPEB)  liability  under  both  GASB  &  FASB                                                                    
     accounting schemes.                                                                                                        
     •   The   implementation   of  EGWP   reduced   6/30/18                                                                    
     healthcare  liabilities  by  $959M, which  resulted  in                                                                    
     lower    projected    liabilities,   lower    projected                                                                    
     contribution  rates,  and  lower  projected  Additional                                                                    
     State Contributions ($752M for PERS, $266M for TRS).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea pointed to slide  25, "An Employer Group Waiver Plan                                                                    
(EGWP) Subsidy                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea looked at slide 26, "HealthCare Cost Trend Rates                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kiehl stated that it was prescription spending.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea agreed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kiehl  surmised  that the  remaining  columns  were                                                                    
total medical spending.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea agreed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman thanked  the department  for the  positive                                                                    
result in the health care portion.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:19:01 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Novell addressed  slide 27,  "Employers and  Additional                                                                    
State Contributions,  Process Timeline":                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Allocation of Projected Employer and Additional State                                                                      
     Contribution Rates with Liabilities                                                                                        
     "Rolled Forward" for two years, Assets "Rolled                                                                             
     Forward" for one year, and Smoothed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman queried the reason for the delay.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Novell deferred to Mr. Kershner.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Kershner explained  that the  information was  provided                                                                    
quarterly  and  then those  were  full  valuations at  later                                                                    
dates.  The  lag  allowed  for   the  board  to  review  the                                                                    
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:22:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kershner  looked back to  slide 26, and stated  that the                                                                    
trend rates were the average per person costs.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Kaufman queried  the picture  if a  medication were                                                                    
created to extend life span and drive up drug costs.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:27:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Kershner  explained  the complication  in  2022,  which                                                                    
changed the portion  paid by the state by the  employer / He                                                                    
looked  at  slide  13, which  showed  the  historical  state                                                                    
contributions. He pointed out the increase in 2022.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:35:49 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman appreciated  the detail,  and hoped  for a                                                                    
normal cost for  a single employee in each  tier within PERS                                                                    
and  TRS. He  reiterated the  importance of  historic normal                                                                    
cost rates for the past 20  years by employee type. He hoped                                                                    
to   work  with   the  Legislative   Finance  Division   and                                                                    
departments.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:36:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman stressed that the retirement systems would                                                                     
be addressed in the current session. He remarked that the                                                                       
different tiers would be examined in those meetings.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Lea agreed to make the presentation more comprehensive                                                                      
based on the day's discussion.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kaufman remarked on the fund transfer and cloud                                                                         
migration. He hoped to discuss that issue.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman discussed the following day's agenda.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
10:39:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 10:39 a.m.                                                                                         

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