Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519
02/10/2005 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB76 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 76 | TELECONFERENCED | |
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
February 10, 2005
1:35 p.m.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Meyer called the House Finance Committee meeting to
order at 1:35:13 PM.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair
Representative Richard Foster
Representative Mike Hawker
Representative Jim Holm
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Mike Kelly
Representative Carl Moses
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair
Representative Eric Croft
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Ralph Samuels; Matt Robus, Director, Division
of Wildlife Conservation, Department of Fish and Game; Rick
Urion, Director, Division of Occupational Licensing,
Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic Development;
Paul Johnson, Guide, Elfin Cove; Sally Saddler, Legislative
Liaison, Department of Commerce, Community, and Economic
Development
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Major Howard Starbard, Administrative Commander, Alaska
State Troopers
SUMMARY
HB 76 "An Act relating to the Big Game Commercial
Services Board and to the regulation of big game
hunting services and transportation services; and
providing for an effective date."
CSHB 76 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a
"do pass" recommendation and with zero note #1 by
the Department of Fish and Game, and zero note #2
by the Department of Public Safety, and with a new
zero note by the Department of Natural Resources,
and a new fiscal impact note by the Department of
Commerce, Community, and Economic Development.
1:35:33 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 76
"An Act relating to the Big Game Commercial Services
Board and to the regulation of big game hunting
services and transportation services; and providing for
an effective date."
[House Bill 76 was previously heard on February 9, 2005.]
Representative Kelly MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment 1,
on page 7, line 30: add "or" back in. He noted that the
deletion of "or" was a drafting error. There being NO
OBJECTION, Amendment 1 was adopted. [Later consultation with
the drafting attorney determined that this technical
amendment was not necessary.]
Vice-Chair Stoltze referred to yesterday's discussion about
the amount of the fine threshold on page 4, line 23. He
requested an opinion from the sponsor about raising the
threshold from $1,000 to $2,000.
REPRESENTATIVE RALPH SAMUELS, sponsor, deferred to Maj.
Howard Starbard from the Alaska State Troopers.
MAJOR HOWARD STARBARD, ADMINISTRATIVE COMMANDER, ALASKA
STATE TROOPERS, replied that he forwarded the suggestion to
change the amount to $2,000 to the head of the investigative
unit, as well as to others in wildlife enforcement. He
reported no objections to the change, and said that it might
alleviate unintended consequences regarding misdemeanors,
and in federal situations.
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked if $2,000 would be a more
appropriate fine level. Major Starbard agreed that it
would, but said it is up to the legislature to set limits
for guides who have committed crimes.
Vice-Chair Stoltze MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 2, on page 4,
line 23: replace "$1,000" with "$2,000". Co-Chair Meyer
OBJECTED for discussion purposes.
Representative Samuels related that he had no problem with
the amendment. Co-Chair Meyer WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 2 was adopted.
Representative Kelly asked for an explanation behind the
addition of the words "or federal" on page 4, line 18.
Representative Samuels replied that a violation on federal
land should receive the same punishment as someone on state
land. Representative Kelly said he would agree to that if
the sponsor wants it in the bill.
Representative Joule MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment 3,
which would amend Section 3, Sec. 08.54.591(b), page 2 line
4-12 as follows:
Line 4, subsection (b) delete "seven" and replace with
"nine"
Line 9, subsection (4) delete "one member" and add "two
members"
Line 12, subsection (5) delete "one public member" and
add "two members"
Representative Weyrauch OBJECTED for discussion purposes.
Representative Joule explained that the makeup of the Big
Game Commercial Services Board would increase to nine
members by adding an additional private landholder and
another public member. He opined that it would be worth the
extra cost to have these additional members on the board.
Representative Samuels agreed. He explained that the
inherent tension in the industry is between the transporters
and the guide, which is why the numbers were made equal. He
suggested that Amendment 3 would help by avoiding the
appearance of a "good-old boys' club". Representative
Weyrauch WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
Representative Kelly OBJECTED to Amendment 3. He voiced a
concern about the additional expense of adding more members
to the equation. He speculated that it would be harder to
get anything done with such a large group.
Vice-Chair Stoltze also OBJECTED. He argued for having
eight rather than seven members on the board, as a
compromise.
A roll call vote was taken on the motion to ADOPT Amendment
3.
IN FAVOR: Foster, Hawker, Joule, Moses, Weyrauch, Meyer
OPPOSED: Holm, Kelly, Stoltze
Representatives Croft and Chenault were absent from the
vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-3).
Representative Joule MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 4, on page 20,
line 1: after the words "enforcement agencies", add "and
political subdivisions". Co-Chair Meyer OBJECTED for
discussion purposes.
Representative Joule explained that Amendment 4 is about
accessing aggregate game management information. He
referred to the Northwest Artic Borough as an example of an
area that has requested information on the harvests of
certain drainages.
Representative Samuels replied that as long as the
information is in aggregate form and does not interfere with
someone's business, he is in agreement.
Representative Weyhrauch voiced an opinion about political
subdivisions obtaining business records. In response,
Representative Joule gave examples of what can happen to a
particular drainage when there is a lack of information to
hunters.
Representative Weyhrauch asked if any political subdivision
would be in a better position to manage game resources than
the Department of Fish and Game. Representative Joule
responded that his borough is charged with land use
management.
1:58:27 PM
Vice-Chair Stoltze agreed it would be acceptable for the
Mat-Su's game advisory board to have the information, but
expressed concern if the Mat-Su Borough would have game
advisory input. Representative Joule said he was thinking
about municipalities receiving this public information, as
well. He suggested that Representative Stoltze make a
friendly amendment adding advisory councils.
Vice-Chair Stoltze requested an opinion from the sponsor and
from the Department of Fish and Game.
Representative Kelly pointed out that on page 20, lines 5 &
6, " aggregated data complied from hunt records and activity
reports may be included in reports by the department", seem
to address this issue. Representative Joule agreed, but
maintained that it is not being done in practice.
Representative Holm suggested that "must be included"
replace "may be included".
MATT ROBUS, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WILDLIFE CONSERVATION,
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, explained that there are two
different groups of information being referred to. He
related that he could speak about information collected by
his department; however, HB 76 deals primarily with the new
Big Game Commercial Services Board and the Department of
Commerce, Community and Economic Development. The
Department of Fish and Game collects harvest information
through hunting reports and obtains data about non-resident
and resident hunters, commercial guide services, and
transportation services. This information is available upon
request, but it falls short of determining how many
commercial operations are in an area because that is not
under the department's jurisdiction.
2:05:33 PM
Representative Joule emphasized that commercial activity
information, which comes from another department, is being
sought.
Vice-Chair Stoltze suggested changing the word "may" to
"shall" on page 20, line 5. Representative Joule agreed as
long as "shall" refers to commercial activities.
Representative Joule WITHDREW Amendment 4.
RICK URION, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF OCCUPATIONAL LICENSING,
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,
asked if his department is being asked to extrapolate
information from hunting records and distribute it.
Representative Joule noted that the suggested language would
be: "Aggregated data from hunt records and commercial
activity reports shall …" Mr. Urion recommended that hunting
records go to the Department of Fish and Game because they
are the people who use that information and because those
records have nothing to do with licensing at all. He noted
that now the reports are collected and nothing is done with
them. He emphasized that going through these records would
cost money, time, and would be a massive undertaking.
Vice-Chair Stoltze asked Mr. Robus if this is data that his
department would like to collect and use. Mr. Robus implied
that, though the information would be useful, cost is a big
concern.
Vice-Chair Stoltze expressed interest in a manageable and
affordable board, and wondered who would bear the cost of
compiling the data. Mr. Urion opined that the cost does not
belong to the board, but rather to the state.
Representative Holm recalled that there is an extra $216
thousand in the licensing budget, which could go toward
additional personnel to provide the information that
Representative Joule is requesting. He wondered what would
be lost if this information is not compiled. Mr. Urion
replied that his department is not authorized to hire anyone
without legislative approval. He explained that the extra
money is carried forward and spent in other places.
In response to Representative Holm's question about harvest
information, Mr. Robus replied that the Board of Game is
always trying to manage populations in a sustainable way.
Harvests may be cut off so populations are not being pressed
too hard. Guided-hunter-on-the-ground information is most
useful for solving conflicts between user groups.
Biological management is often used, but without the use of
the information being referred to, it is hard to involve all
groups without conflict.
2:15:39 PM
Representative Joule related that he wanted to have this
discussion because it is important to people, and use of
this information could solve user conflicts. He said he
understands the constraints related to the costs, but he
voiced a hope that the board could find a way to get the
information. He emphasized that the State Troopers are not
able to manage the enforcement of wildlife regulations.
Representative Joule WITHDREW Amendment 4.
Representative Weyhrauch MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment
4A: on page 20, Section 31, add subsection c, "Forms,
records, and reports required under this chapter may be
disseminated, received, and stored electronically."
Co-Chair Meyer OBJECTED for discussion purposes.
Representative Samuels agreed with the amendment. Co-Chair
Meyer WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 4A was ADOPTED.
2:21:13 PM
Representative Weyhrauch MOVED to ADOPT conceptual Amendment
5: on page 2, lines 13-15, delete "The Department of Fish
and Game, Department of Natural Resources, Department of
Law, and Department of Public Safety" and add "state
agencies".
Co-Chair Meyer OBJECTED for discussion purposes. The
sponsor agreed that Amendment 5 makes sense. Co-Chair Meyer
WITHDREW his OBJECTION.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment 5 was ADOPTED.
Representative Weyhrauch pointed out that there are numerous
references to federal agencies throughout the bill. He
voiced a concern, given what happens on the national level
with people who are opposed to hunting and trapping, that
federal law should not dictate how Alaska deals with hunting
and transporting issues. He described conditions on the
North Slope regarding the inability to possess firearms
there. In response to a question from Co-Chair Meyer,
Representative Weyhrauch replied that he did not wish to
make a conceptual amendment based on these concerns at this
time.
Representative Samuels spoke about keeping penalties equal
for crimes committed on either federal or state land.
2:27:06 PM
Representative Weyhrauch referenced Section 19, page 12, and
asked what standard is used to judge if someone has acted
unethically. Representative Samuels replied that there are
no standards yet, but the board would set them.
Representative Weyhrauch inquired if the intent of the bill
is that the board would not sanction someone who has acted
unethically. Representative Samuels said yes.
Representative Kelly pointed out that the reference to
entering on federal land is on page 14, line 13, "knowingly
enter or remain on private, state, or federal land". He
asked Representative Weyhrauch for his thoughts on that
issue. Representative Weyhrauch noted that he hunts on
federal land without asking for permission.
PAUL JOHNSON, GUIDE, ELFIN COVE, in response to a request
from Representative Samuels, spoke about dealing with
federal permits for 20 years. He explained that special
contracts are needed, and 3 percent of gross receipts is
paid to the federal government. He called it an essential
part of the bill.
Co-Chair Meyer pointed out that extending the board would
change the fiscal note. Mr. Urion agreed. Representative
Foster suggested that the new fiscal note from Occupational
Licensing should reflect a change from $16 thousand to $18
thousand.
In response to a question by Co-Chair Meyer, Mr. Urion
stated that the amount of $77 thousand has already been
included in the operating costs of the budget, and the
fiscal note only reflects new costs of HB 76.
Representative Holm asked if the out-years would reflect
spending $77 thousand, plus the $18 thousand. Mr. Urion
replied that $77 thousand is already reflected in the
budget.
2:35:32 PM
SALLY SADDLER, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE,
COMMUNITY, AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT explained that
subsequent budgets would show both $77.6 thousand for
licensing of guides, plus $18 thousand for travel for the
board [This amount was later corrected to $20 thousand, see
below.]. Representative Holm asked if the fiscal note should
reflect out-years. Ms. Saddler said she would check on
that.
Co-Chair Meyer suggested that the new number should be $20
thousand because it is $1,000 per meeting and two new
members were added. Ms. Saddler agreed.
Vice-Chair Stoltze clarified that $77.6 is budgeted for the
board in the Division of Occupational Licensing right now.
Co-Chair Meyer suggested that the committee move the bill
out with the understanding that there will be a new fiscal
note.
Representative Foster MOVED to report CS HB 76 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
CSHB 76 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "do pass"
recommendation and with zero note #1 by the Department of
Fish and Game, and zero note #2 by the Department of Public
Safety, and with a new zero note by the Department of
Natural Resources, and a new fiscal impact note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 2:40 PM
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