Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/26/1997 08:25 AM House FIN
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 26, 1997
8:25 A.M.
TAPE HFC 97-80, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 97-80, Side 2, #000 - end.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Hanley called the House Finance Committee meeting to order
at 8:25 a.m.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Hanley Representative Kelly
Co-Chair Therriault Representative Kohring
Representative Davies Representative Martin
Representative Davis Representative Moses
Representative Foster Representative Mulder
Representative Grussendorf
ALSO PRESENT
Representative Williams; Frank Rue, Commissioner, Department of
Fish and Game; Bob Clasby, Director, Division of Commercial
Fisheries; Tracy Crammer, Exxon Valdez Trust Council, Department of
Fish and Game; Tom Wright, Staff, Representative Ivan, Ginny Fay,
Alaska Environmental Lobby; Ginger Patton, Fiscal Analyst,
Legislative Finance Division; Michelle Brown, Commissioner,
Department of Environmental Conservation.
SUMMARY
HB 75 "An Act making appropriations for the operating and loan
program expenses of state government, for certain
programs, and to capitalize funds; and providing for an
effective date."
HB 75 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.
HB 76 "An Act making appropriations for the operating expenses
of the state's integrated comprehensive mental health
program; and providing for an effective date."
HB 76 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.
HOUSE BILL NO. 75
"An Act making appropriations for the operating and loan
program expenses of state government, for certain programs,
and to capitalize funds; and providing for an effective date."
AMENDMENTS
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
Representative Moses MOVED to adopt Amendment FG-1 (copy on file).
Co-Chair Hanley OBJECTED. The amendment would add $165 thousand
dollars to the Department of Fish and Game, Commercial Fisheries
Management and Development, Fisheries Development. Representative
Moses maintained that the appropriation amount should be ten times
greater.
Representative Grussendorf spoke in support of Amendment FG-1. He
pointed out that the fisheries industry is the state's largest
employer. He stressed that the amendment will increase economic
development opportunities.
Representative Martin questioned if the fishing market is over-
saturated and over-developed. He noted the amount of jobs that go
to out-of-state workers.
Representative Moses stated that some fisheries are under-
developed.
Representative Grussendorf pointed out that there are fisheries
other than salmon. He asserted that the market can absorb
additional product.
FRANK RUE, ACTING COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
asserted that the answer to the salmon problem is to find new
markets and expand current markets, not to cut back on the product.
He maintained that a reduction in salmon management would make the
state less competitive.
BOB CLAUSBY, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF COMMERCIAL FISHERIES observed
that the amendment would impact Cook Inlet, Northern Peninsula, and
Bristol Bay salmon. The amendment would also have an effect on
projects by non-profits and federal agencies to rehabilitate areas
with depressed salmon populations. He maintained that the low
price of salmon is a short-term trend. He pointed out that pink
salmon inventory is almost all gone. He asserted that, of all
fishery resources, salmon provides the greatest benefits to
Alaska's economy.
Representative Martin asked why the salmon fisheries should be
subsidized.
Commissioner Rue emphasized that the program helps the Department
manage for maximum yield of the species. He maintained that the
salmon industry pays for itself.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment FG-1.
IN FAVOR: Davies, Grussendorf, Moses, Foster
OPPOSED: Davis, Kelly, Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault, Hanley
The MOTION FAILED (4-7).
Representative Grussendorf MOVED to adopt Amendment FG-2 (copy on
file). Amendment FG-2 would add $115 thousand dollars to the
Division of Subsistence. Representative Grussendorf noted that
subsistence management is one of the biggest issues facing the
state. He pointed out that the Division of Subsistence needs to
develop baseline data. He noted the number of subsistence issues
before the Board of Fish. He stressed that the Board of Fish will
have to rule conservatively on subsistence issues if sufficient
data is not available.
Commissioner Rue pointed out that 40 percent of the Subsistence
Division's general fund support has been eliminated. He stated
that the amendment would allow the Boards of Fish to provide for
subsistence opportunity without unduly restricting other
opportunities. He stressed that the state system tries to
accommodate all users. He stated that without good subsistence
data other users may be unduly restricted, enough resource for
subsistence may not be provided, and subsistence users may become
disillusioned with the state system. He observed that
disillusioned subsistence users will look to the federal
government.
Representative Foster observed that the Subsistence Division's Nome
office was eliminated. He noted that the Division lacks a rural
presence.
Co-Chair Hanley explained that the intent of creating a Rural
Subsistence BRU is to encourage a rural presences.
Representative Grussendorf stressed the need to gain the support of
rural users.
Commissioner Rue emphasized that the Department's intent is to
increase its rural presence.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment FG-2.
IN FAVOR: Foster, Davies, Grussendorf, Moses
OPPOSED: Davis, Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault, Hanley
Representative Kelly was absent from the vote.
The MOTION FAILED (4-6).
Representative Foster MOVED to adopt Amendment FG-3 (copy on file).
Amendment FG-3 as revised by Representative Foster would add $94.2
thousand dollars to the Rural Subsistence BRU and delete the same
amount from the Office of the Commissioner. He noted that only 2
of 17 positions in the Subsistence Division are in rural areas of
the state.
TOM WRIGHT, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN spoke in support of the
amendment.
Representative Martin questioned the wisdom of reducing the
Commissioner's staff. He pointed out that subsistence is a
statewide issue. He asked why existing positions should not be
transferred.
Representative Grussendorf spoke in support of additional
subsistence funding, but expressed concern with the funding source.
He noted that the position that would be eliminated coordinates
subsistence, salmon marketing and the hatcheries. The position
also acts as a legislative liaison.
Commissioner Rue spoke against the amendment. He stressed the need
for a coordinated position on issues before the legislature. He
stated that the function will need to be continued. He stressed
that the amendment will have a ripple down effect in the
Department.
Co-Chair Hanley pointed out that there are other Departments that
have less positions in their commissioner's office.
Representative Grussendorf pointed out the importance of the
Department of Fish and Game to the public. He maintained that, due
to public input, the Department of Fish and Game needs a higher
level of management than some other departments.
Representative Grussendorf spoke in support of changing the funding
source.
Representative Kohring spoke in support of the amendment.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment FG-3.
IN FAVOR: Foster, Kelly, Kohring, Mulder, Therriault, Hanley
OPPOSED: Davies, Davis, Grussendorf, Martin, Moses
The MOTION PASSED (6-5).
Representative Foster MOVED to adopt Amendment FG-4 on behalf of
Representative Williams (copy on file). Amendment FG-4 would
delete $96.1 thousand dollars for an assistant director in the
Department of Fish and Game/Commercial Fisheries Management and
Development; and add the same amount in Commercial Fisheries
Management and Development/Special Projects for special projects
relating to the Southeast sea urchin fishery.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS spoke in support of Amendment FG-4.
He explained that the amendment will assist the Southeast sea
urchin fishery. An assistant director's position would be deleted
from Juneau.
Commissioner Rue spoke in support of funding for the sea urchin
fishery. He pointed out that the assistant director position has
already been deleted. He stated that funding would have to come
from another area of the Commercial Fisheries Management and
Development component. He observed that this component was reduced
by $500 thousand dollars in FY 98.
(Tape Change, HFC 97-80, Side 2)
Mr. Clausby emphasized the need to look at additional opportunities
for funding new fisheries. He noted that there is a diver's task
force addressing the issue of funding the sea urchin fisheries. He
estimated that $150 thousand dollars a year is needed to manage the
Southeast sea urchin fisheries. He expressed concerns that an
existing program would be reduced to fund a new program. He
observed that six senior positions have been cut in the past five
years. He stressed that the management of subsistence, commercial
and personal use fisheries is starting to unravel. He stated that
more cuts in upper level management will result in serious
consequences.
Representative William noted that the Bering Sea/Bristol Bay king
crab fisheries is open and requires additional funding. He noted
that the Aleutians sea urchin fisheries could be developed.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION to adopt Amendment FG-4.
IN FAVOR: Davies, Grussendorf, Moses, Davis, Foster, Kelly,
Kohring, Martin, Mulder, Therriault, Hanley
OPPOSED: 0
The MOTION PASSED (11-0).
DISCLOSURES
Co-Chair Hanley disclosed that he commercial fishes in Bristol Bay.
DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION
Representative Kohring noted that Amendment DEC-1 was proposed by
the Governor. The amendment would approve $1,655.9 million dollars
in Exxon Valdez Oil Settlement funds for projects approved by the
Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Trustee Council.
TRACY CRAMER, EXXON VALDEZ TRUSTEE COUNCIL explained that the
Governor's budget included a front section appropriation to carry
forward the RPL that was approved by the Legislative Budget and
Audit Committee from August 1997 to June 30, 1998. She observed
that the budget amendment deleted the front section carry-forward
language and requested that the authority to receive and expand be
included in the back section of the budget. She noted that the two
projects addressed by the amendment are currently underway. The
amendment would allow these projects to continue into fiscal year
98.
Co-Chair Hanley observed that the intent is to move items to the
back section in order to better track projects.
GINNY FAY, SPECIAL ASSISTANT, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION discussed the projects contained in the amendment.
She noted that the amendment continues a Kodiak Island Master Waste
Management Plan to analyze waste entering the spill impacted area
in order to measure impact and speed recover. The other project is
the Chenega Shoreline Residual Oil Reduction project to remove
residual oils from the beaches near the village of Chenega.
Representative Kohring MOVED to adopt Amendment DEC-1 (copy on
file). There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Kohring explained that Amendment DEC-2 corrects a
technical error (copy on file).
GINGER PATTON, FISCAL ANALYSTS, LEGISLATIVE FINANCE DIVISION
explained that the amendment corrects an error she made in
recording the Subcommittee's reduction.
Representative Davies summarized that the intent of the
Subcommittee was to delete a position in the Animal Industries
component. The fiscal analyst mistakenly made the deletion in the
Seafood and Sanitation component. To correctly reflect the
Subcommittee's action a position needs to be added back into the
Seafood and Sanitation Inspection component and a position deleted
from the Animal Industries component.
Ms. Patton agreed that the Animal Industries component is over-
funded by $101 thousand dollars.
Co-Chair Hanley pointed out that the $101. thousand dollars
deletion in the Animal Industries component should not be
represented by brackets.
Representative Kohring MOVED to Amend, Amendment DEC-2, by reducing
the reduction to $50.6 thousand dollars and to reinstate an
inspector position. He explained that the facility operator has
estimated that the position could be operated part-time.
BARBARA FRANK, BUDGET ANALYST, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION explained that the FDA requires that an inspector be
present during processing. She noted that the operator will only
be able to operate when the inspector is on site. She clarified
that the amendment addresses a slaughtering facility.
Co-Chair Therriault noted that animals are slaughtered in batches.
Ms. Frank noted that the Department's calculation was based on the
operator's estimate of production. She added that the Department
has to pay for time the position spends in training.
There being NO OBJECTION, the amendment to Amendment DEC-2 was
adopted. There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment DEC-2 was adopted as
amended.
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment DEC-3 (copy on file).
Amendment DEC-3 would add $199 thousand general fund dollars and
$264.7 thousand dollars in general fund program receipts to the
Department of Environmental Conservation, Environmental Health,
Solid Waste. He explained that the intention is to retain state
primacy in the solid waste program. He observed that dumping
facilities would be more expensive to operate under the management
of the federal Environmental Protection Agency.
Representative Kohring OBJECTED for purposes of discussion. He
emphasized the need to make major reductions in the state's
operating budget. He observed that the Subcommittee reduced this
component by $800 thousand dollars. After discussions with the
Department it was ascertained that the state could not administer
the program with the remaining funding. The Subcommittee then
voted to delete the remaining funding.
MICHELLE BROWN, COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL
CONSERVATION agreed that the state could not run the program with
a $800 thousand dollar reduction. She stated that additional
funding contained in Amendment DEC-3 and proposed by other
amendments may allow the state to argue for state primacy.
Representative Kohring suggested that the program be run out of
program receipts. He noted that municipalities would have to pay
for the program.
Co-Chair Hanley observed that the federal government will take over
the program if state funding is eliminated. He stressed that the
federal government does not have the flexibility that the
Department of Environmental Conservation would have. He estimated
that communities would pay substantially more for the program if it
is managed by the federal government. He added that the program
also manages rural sanitation. He observed that urban communities
would pay to support rural communities. He stated that a mixed
approach would be more equitable.
Representative Kohring spoke in support of a mixed approach,
utilizing program receipts.
Co-Chair Therriault observed that the Department can only assess
fees to urban landfills. He stressed that if the program is only
supported by fees, then urban rates will go up to support
facilities in rural areas. He maintained that the state can
negotiate with the federal government to maintain primacy.
In response to a question by Representative Grussendorf,
Commissioner Brown explained that the state does not have a
hazardous waste program. The state assists communities in the
operation of household hazardous waste pick-ups. She noted that if
the state's solid waste program is eliminated that communities will
have to abide by federal standards. She observed that no state has
ever not run a solid waste program. She noted that citizen suits
could occur if the state's program is eliminated. If the program
is reduced there would be a reduced effort toward community
household waste removal. She added that the program regulates
industrial waste. She explained that the federal government would
not regulate industrial waste. Industrial waste will not be
regulated if the state's program is eliminated.
Co-Chair Hanley observed that the intent is to provide enough
funding to allow the retention of state primacy.
Representative Kohring stressed that the effect of federal
regulation of the solid waste program is unknown. He questioned
the effect of federal regulation of the hazardous waste program.
Commissioner Brown stated that federal regulation of the hazardous
waste program has resulted in more enforcement and less technical
assistance. The cost to operators has increased. She reiterated
that less flexible federal standards will result in an increase in
cost to the communities.
Representative Kohring maintained that the program should be paid
by the users of the program. He spoke in support of Amendment DEC-
3 as part of a phase-out approach.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment DEC-3 was adopted.
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to adopt Amendment DEC-4 (copy on file).
He explained that funding was received from the Alaska Pulp Company
for clean-up at the Sitka mill site. This funding was deposited
into the Mitigation Account and expended from the Oil/Hazardous
Prevention/Response Fund. He observed that this has freed general
funds to be used for Community Health/EMS grants.
Co-Chair Therriault MOVED to AMEND Amendment DEC-4 by transferring
$226.3 thousand dollars from EMS grants to Environmental Health
Solid Waste. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment DEC-4 was adopted as amended.
HB 75 and HB 76 were HELD in Committee for further consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:02 a.m.
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