Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519

02/09/2006 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 274 PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 274(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 318 LIMITATION ON EMINENT DOMAIN TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 318(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 334 MUNICIPAL PROPERTY TAX DEFERRAL/EXEMPTION TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                   HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                      February 9, 2006                                                                                          
                          1:44 P.M.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  called the  House Finance  Committee meeting                                                                    
to order at 1:44:39 PM.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Jim Holm                                                                                                         
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Lesil    McGuire;   Juli    Lucky,   Staff,                                                                    
Representative   Mike   Hawker;    Craig   Johnson,   Staff,                                                                    
Representative  Lesil  McGuire;   Peter  Putzier,  Assistant                                                                    
Attorney  General,  Department  of  Law;  Sarah  Gilbertson,                                                                    
Legislative  Liaison,  Department  of  Fish  and  Game;  Tim                                                                    
Lamkin,  Staff,   Representative  Jim  Holm;   Dave  Feeken,                                                                    
Broker, Alaska Association of Realtors, Kenai                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Lisa  Rogers,  Certified  Public  Accountant  (CPA),  Alaska                                                                    
Society of  CPA's (ASCPA), Anchorage; Don  Rulien, Chairman,                                                                    
Legislative  Committee,  ASPCA,   Anchorage;  Roblyn  Weibe,                                                                    
President,  Society   of  Independent   Accountants  (ASIA),                                                                    
Anchorage;   John  Baker,   Attorney,  Department   of  Law,                                                                    
representing  the  Department  of  Fish  and  Game  and  the                                                                    
Department  of  Natural  Resources;  Ron  Estrada,  Property                                                                    
Owner,  Fairbanks;   Rod  Arno,  Director,   Alaska  Outdoor                                                                    
Council (AOC), Anchorage                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 274    An  Act relating  to the  practice of  accounting;                                                                    
          and providing for an effective date.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          CS  HB 274  (FIN)  was reported  out of  Committee                                                                    
          with a  "do pass"  recommendation and with  a zero                                                                    
          note by  the Department  of Commerce,  Community &                                                                    
          Economic Development.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HB 318    An Act limiting the exercise of eminent domain.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          CS  HB 318  (FIN)  was reported  out of  Committee                                                                    
          with  "individual recommendations"  and with  zero                                                                    
          note #1  by the Department of  Commerce, Community                                                                    
          &  Economic  Development,  zero  note  #2  by  the                                                                    
          Department    of    Environmental    Conservation,                                                                    
          indeterminate note  #3 by  the Department  of Law,                                                                    
          indeterminate  note   #4  by  the   Department  of                                                                    
          Natural  Resources and  indeterminate  note #5  by                                                                    
          the   Department   of  Transportation   &   Public                                                                    
          Facilities.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB 334    An Act relating to  an exemption from and deferral                                                                    
          of municipal  property taxes for certain  types of                                                                    
          deteriorated property.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          HB 334 was SCHEDULED but not HEARD.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:45:29 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 274                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          An  Act relating  to the  practice of  accounting;                                                                    
          and providing for an effective date.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair  Stoltze MOVED to ADOPT  work draft #24-LS0176\C,                                                                    
Bannister, 2/8/06, as the version  of the legislation before                                                                    
the Committee.   (Copy on  File).   Representative Weyhrauch                                                                    
OBJECTED.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:46:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch WITHDREW his  OBJECTION in order to                                                                    
hear the proposed changes  brought forward by Representative                                                                    
Hawker.   There being NO  further OBJECTION, the  work draft                                                                    
was adopted.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HAWKER,   SPONSOR,   explained   that   the                                                                    
committee substitute resulted from  a review by the Division                                                                    
of  Occupational Licensing.    The  Division made  technical                                                                    
corrections  providing  the  version  currently  before  the                                                                    
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker spoke to the  basis of the bill, which                                                                    
updates  the  Alaska   statutory  framework  regulating  the                                                                    
professional practices  of accounting.   The bill  moves the                                                                    
statues  toward the  standardized  structure recommended  in                                                                    
the model of the  National Uniform Accountancy Act developed                                                                    
by the  American Institute  of Certified  Public Accountants                                                                    
(AICPA).                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  advised that adoption of  the changes                                                                    
would:                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
  • Facilitate the practice of Alaska public accountants                                                                      
     in other jurisdictions,                                                                                                    
    • Ensure that qualifications of non-resident public                                                                       
     accountants practicing in Alaska, and                                                                                      
   • Aid conduct of interstate commerce.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The changes are important to  keep Alaska competitive in the                                                                    
international business environment  and provide the greatest                                                                    
possible  consumer protection  for the  public relying  upon                                                                    
the work performed by Certified Public Accountants (CPA).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker highlighted what the bill would                                                                           
accomplish:                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   • Increases the supervision and regulation of public                                                                       
     accountants who provide auditing services;                                                                                 
   • Establishes a mechanism to grant temporary practice                                                                      
     privileges to public accountants and public accounting                                                                     
     firms licensed in other states;                                                                                            
   • Expands peer quality review requirements; and                                                                            
    • Ensures that public accountants meet appropriate                                                                        
     education and experience standards.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:53:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  noted that  there had been  a lengthy                                                                    
discussion  in  the  House   Labor  and  Commerce  Committee                                                                    
regarding concerns by non-licensed  accountants.  He pointed                                                                    
out the "do pass" recommendations from that Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:54:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair  Stoltze inquired  if  there  were "issues"  for                                                                    
CPA's regarding  license and non-licensure.   Representative                                                                    
Hawker   addressed  the   difference   between  a   licensed                                                                    
accountant  and a  non-licensed  one.   The  key points  for                                                                    
obtaining CPA licensing are:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
   • A minimum education requirements with a degree in                                                                        
     accounting,                                                                                                                
   • Passing the uniform certified public accountant                                                                          
     certification, and                                                                                                         
   • Applying to the Board to practice as a CPA.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
To  actually  perform  audits requires  further  experience;                                                                    
there  is an  apprenticeship  appointment.   There are  non-                                                                    
licensed  record  keepers.     Currently,  there  is  little                                                                    
regulation  of  the  work product.    Representative  Hawker                                                                    
pointed out  that Alaska  has some  of the  "least stringent                                                                    
regulations"  of  any  state  in the  Nation,  which  is  of                                                                    
concern  to the  licensed accounting  profession.   The bill                                                                    
would not impinge any non-certified accountants.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:58:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair  Stoltze asked  the  percentage  of people  that                                                                    
initially,  fail the  CPA  examine.   Representative  Hawker                                                                    
thought  that those  passing the  test the  first time  fell                                                                    
into the 25% range.  He  acknowledged that it is a difficult                                                                    
test  to pass,  adding that  his class  set a  national pass                                                                    
record at 67% graduates succeeding.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:59:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm inquired whose  responsibility it was to                                                                    
regulate the service.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:59:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  responded that was a  function of the                                                                    
State's  Board   of  Accountancy.    The   Governor,  as  an                                                                    
independent body, appoints that Board.   He added that there                                                                    
are stipulations regarding the composition of the board.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:00:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  inquired if the  legislation would                                                                    
affect  "bookkeepers".   Representative Hawker  responded it                                                                    
would not.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:01:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch noted  that there  are people  who                                                                    
advertise    themselves    as   a    bookkeeping    service.                                                                    
Representative Hawker stated that they  would not be able to                                                                    
express  or  imply  that  they  have  special  knowledge  or                                                                    
competence  issuing any  report on  the books.   There  is a                                                                    
100%  exclusion  on  bookkeeping.    The  substance  on  the                                                                    
bookkeeping work is where it crosses the professional line.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:02:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LISA  ROGERS,  (TESTIFIED   VIA  TELECONFERENCE),  CERTIFIED                                                                    
PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT  (CPA), ALASKA  SOCIETY OF  CPA'S (ASCPA),                                                                    
ANCHORAGE, testified  that the legislation provides  a much-                                                                    
needed  update and  revision to  the statutes  governing the                                                                    
practice of public accounting.   The National Association of                                                                    
the  State Board  of Accountancy  (NASBA)  and the  American                                                                    
Institute  of  Institute  of  Certified  Public  Accountants                                                                    
(AICPA)  drafted the  Uniform Accountancy  Act.   She stated                                                                    
that  both   organizations  participated  in   drafting  and                                                                    
reviewing the  proposed legislation.   She urged  support of                                                                    
HB 274.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:03:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker applauded Ms.  Rogers for the work she                                                                    
provided on the drafting process.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:04:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON  RULIEN,   (TESTIFIED  VIA   TELECONFERENCE),  CHAIRMAN,                                                                    
CERTIFIED  PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT  (CPA), LEGISLATIVE  COMMITTEE,                                                                    
ALASKA  SOCIETY OF  CPA'S  (ASPCA),  ANCHORAGE, pointed  out                                                                    
that the policy by which an  accountant becomes a CPA is not                                                                    
being changed.  The intent  was to address language and make                                                                    
it more  uniform so that  accountants can practice  in other                                                                    
states  without  a  lot  of   trouble.    Mr.  Rulien  noted                                                                    
statewide  support of  the legislation.   He  requested that                                                                    
the legislation move from Committee as soon as possible.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:05:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBLYN  WEIBE,  (TESTIFIED VIA  TELECONFERENCE),  PRESIDENT,                                                                    
ALASKA SOCIETY OF INDEPENDENT  ACCOUNTANTS (ASIA)   NORTHERN                                                                    
CHAPTER,  ANCHORAGE, voiced  appreciation  for the  proposed                                                                    
legislation and urged its' consideration  on behalf of ASIA.                                                                    
She  noted  that  ASIA  helps  to  maintain  a  professional                                                                    
expertise amongst accountants.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:08:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kerttula  noticed   that  the   reprocosity                                                                    
requirement  was  being  changed  from five  years  to  four                                                                    
years;  she  asked  if  that   was  the  national  standard.                                                                    
Representative Hawker stated it was.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker MOVED  to  ADOPT Amendment  #1.   Co-                                                                    
Chair Meyer OBJECTED for purposes of discussion.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  explained  that  the  amendment  was                                                                    
brought forward  by Department of  Law for a  language clean                                                                    
up and does not make substantive changes.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10: Delete (b) and insert (c)                                                                                         
     Page 15, Line 6:  Delete "required by" and                                                                                 
                       Insert "under"                                                                                           
     Page 17, Line 21: Insert "[or suspension]"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:10:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  WITHDREW his  OBJECTION.    There being  NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, Amendment #1 was adopted.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:10:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair  Stoltze MOVED to REPORT  CS HB 274 (FIN)  out of                                                                    
Committee  with  individual  recommendations  and  with  the                                                                    
accompanying zero  note.  There  being NO OBJECTION,  it was                                                                    
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  274 (FIN) was  reported out  of Committee with  a "do                                                                    
pass" recommendation and with a  zero note by the Department                                                                    
of Commerce, Community & Economic Development.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:11:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:       2:11:36 PM                                                                                                     
RECONVENE:          2:17:11 PM                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 318                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act limiting the exercise of eminent domain.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LESIL  MCGUIRE, SPONSOR,  stated that  HB 318                                                                    
asks for two policy decisions.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
  • The first is whether or not it is appropriate to take                                                                     
     a person's private property for economic development;                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
 • The second is whether it is appropriate to take all or                                                                     
     part of one's primary residence for recreational                                                                           
     opportunities of another.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The legislation  is not intended to  prohibit the legitimate                                                                    
use of  eminent domain;  it limits use  in those  two policy                                                                    
areas.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
A  recent  United  States  Supreme  Court  ruling  that  the                                                                    
eminent  domain powers  of  a government  could  be used  to                                                                    
seize  private land  for economic  development purposes  has                                                                    
struck  a  vital blow  to  private  property rights  in  the                                                                    
country.  Although  Kelo versus New London  is a Connecticut                                                                    
case, the  implications were  broad.   HB 318  clarifies the                                                                    
property rights  of Alaskans and  prevents a repeat  of what                                                                    
transpired in Connecticut.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire  continued, HB 318 prohibits  the use                                                                    
of eminent domain  for economic gain and  clarifies that the                                                                    
government  be  prohibited from  taking  all  or part  of  a                                                                    
primary residence through eminent  domain so that others may                                                                    
have a  recreational opportunity.   Alaska has  thousands of                                                                    
acres  of land  and it  is unacceptable  to seize  someone's                                                                    
home for recreational purposes.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire noted that  there are amendments that                                                                    
deal  with the  second  half of  the  bill, indicating  that                                                                    
amendments  were offered  in the  House Judiciary  Committee                                                                    
proposing elimination of any recreational use.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:23:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule noted  the choice of words  used by the                                                                    
sponsor and asked if "private  residents" was different than                                                                    
"private property".   Representative  McGuire said  they are                                                                    
different.   She commented there are  amendments coming that                                                                    
could  change that  policy.   It  was decided  to "take  the                                                                    
middle   ground",  which   would  keep   the  reference   to                                                                    
recreational  uses  and  narrow  it to  a  person's  private                                                                    
residence.    She acknowledged  that  she  had chosen  those                                                                    
words  "carefully" to  alert members  of  the public  policy                                                                    
decision made in the prior Committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:25:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair  Stoltze mentioned  that  he  had received  many                                                                    
phone    calls   referencing    Representative   Gruenberg's                                                                    
amendment.     He  asked  for  information   regarding  that                                                                    
amendment and if it had been incorporated.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:26:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   McGuire    stated   that   in    the   end,                                                                    
Representative  Gruenberg choose  to withdraw  his amendment                                                                    
(Amendment #5).  It would  have allowed for local government                                                                    
bodies  to have  the governmental  power to  go "around  the                                                                    
bill",  which  she  felt would  "gut"  it.    Representative                                                                    
McGuire  had objected  to that  and  emphasized, she  wanted                                                                    
clear  public  policy.    She   understood  there  would  be                                                                    
arguments to reconsider that decision.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:27:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair Stoltze  pointed out  that another  state entity                                                                    
has eminent  domain authority    the Alaska Railroad.   They                                                                    
have never exercised that right to  date.  He asked if there                                                                    
had  been  discussion  in   the  House  Judiciary  Committee                                                                    
regarding the Alaska Railroad.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire replied  that they  did not  sign up                                                                    
for  discussion  in  that  Committee.   The  bill  does  not                                                                    
profoundly  change  eminent  domain policy  enacted  on  the                                                                    
books,  but  rather makes  it  clear  that from  private-to-                                                                    
private how it will be.   The Committee chose to continue on                                                                    
the  same eminent  domain powers,  currently in  Statute and                                                                    
the exemptions follow that pattern.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Stoltze interjected that  he was referring to the                                                                    
Alaska  Railroad real  estate.   He asked  if they  would be                                                                    
limited in  using their eminent  domain powers  for building                                                                    
something like a hotel.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:30:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PETER  PUTZIER, ASSISTANT  ATTORNEY  GENERAL, DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                    
LAW  & DEPARTMENT  OF  TRANSPORTATION  & PUBLIC  FACILITIES,                                                                    
requested the question be restated.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire interjected  that the Alaska Railroad                                                                    
would  be   prohibited  from  taking  private   property  or                                                                    
residence  for  building  a hotel  or  further  real  estate                                                                    
projects.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:31:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair  Stoltze thought  it  would  be "one  government                                                                    
entity  to  another".   Representative  McGuire  interjected                                                                    
that  the  bill  only  changes  policy  with  respect  to  a                                                                    
governmental   authorities  ability   to  transfer   private                                                                    
property to  another private entity through  eminent domain.                                                                    
That being said, in that  particular project, there is a mix                                                                    
of land.   In  the case  of the  private property  taken for                                                                    
development of  the hotel, the bill  clearly prohibits that,                                                                    
however, public land is different.   She admitted that it is                                                                    
complex because of the existing law and statute.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:33:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula asked  about the  exceptions listed                                                                    
in Section 3  and referenced Page 4,  Sub-section (3), which                                                                    
allows  an exemption  for private-to-private  extraction use                                                                    
of  resources.    She  asked if  that  language  existed  in                                                                    
current law and about the "private way of necessity".                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Putzier  advised  that  the intent  was  to  address  a                                                                    
specific  issue,  Article  8,  Section  18,  of  the  Alaska                                                                    
Constitution.   The language in  that was quoted, as  it was                                                                    
consistent with the  bill's sponsor's intent.   They did not                                                                    
intend to imply that they  were attempting to change Article                                                                    
8.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:35:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula asked if  Section 8 was dealing with                                                                    
private-to-private, while condemning  land development.  Mr.                                                                    
Putzier understood that was correct.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:36:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula   asked  for  an  example   on  how                                                                    
Subsection  3  would  work.    Mr.  Putzier  explained  that                                                                    
situation could  address natural resource development.   The                                                                    
provision could be used as a mechanism to access oil.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:36:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula discussed that  if the State already                                                                    
has   the   language  indicated   in   Section   8  of   the                                                                    
Constitution,  it  might not  need  to  be restated  in  the                                                                    
legislation.   Mr.  Putzier responded  that the  legislation                                                                    
was  not  intended to  create  any  ambiguity regarding  the                                                                    
impact of  Article 8, Section  8.   The opinion was  that it                                                                    
would be  better to  address it  specifically than  to leave                                                                    
any ambiguity.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:37:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  referenced  Page  4,  Section  E,                                                                    
which describes that the power  of eminent domain should not                                                                    
be  exercised  within  250  linear  feet  of  a  landowner's                                                                    
personal residence.   He questioned  if the  language should                                                                    
be  further  clarified, as  it  currently  appears to  be  a                                                                    
blanket  prohibition.    Mr.  Putzier  stated  it  had  been                                                                    
addressed on Page 3, D(1).                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:39:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch pointed out  that it was a separate                                                                    
section  and that  it should  be clarified.   Representative                                                                    
McGuire agreed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:39:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  asked  if  the  bill  prevents  a                                                                    
public  entity  taking  private property  for  developing  a                                                                    
public  recreational   facility.     Representative  McGuire                                                                    
stated that  the bill does  prohibit a public  entity taking                                                                    
private property  to develop a public  recreational facility                                                                    
if it involves taking someone's private residence.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch thought  a situation  could happen                                                                    
like  in  some  cartoon,  with proposing  a  development  of                                                                    
shops, etc.,  amongst a personal and  dilapidated residence.                                                                    
He worried about that.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire stated that  was "precisely" what the                                                                    
bill  was addressing.   She  felt strongly  that one  of the                                                                    
fundamental rights  of an  American and  an Alaskan  was the                                                                    
right to own private property.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
      • To determine a better use of land, should the                                                                         
     amendment pass, there could be a provision in the                                                                          
     recreational   and   economic   development   area   to                                                                    
     negotiate with the landowner.                                                                                              
   • Secondly, there is another "out" on Page 4 Line 9,                                                                       
     which allows the Legislature by law to transfer                                                                            
     property.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She  indicated she  was compelled  to add  that language  to                                                                    
provide an  escape valve  and thought it  could occur  in an                                                                    
extreme circumstance.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:43:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  understood that in the  Kelo case,                                                                    
a private  nonprofit corporation was established  to develop                                                                    
an area that  was deemed to have economic  plight.  Property                                                                    
was  transferred for  the development  of  a shopping  mall.                                                                    
That  private  property  was taken  for  purposes  beyond  a                                                                    
shopping  mall.   Mr. Putzier  replied that  the Connecticut                                                                    
Legislature  authorized   the  entity  to  study   and  make                                                                    
recommendations  for  development projects,  which  involved                                                                    
the doctrine of economic plight.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:44:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker pointed  out that  the House  Finance                                                                    
Committee  has  traditionally  stripped  legislative  intent                                                                    
language from bills.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:45:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CRAIG   JOHNSON,   STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE   LESIL   MCGUIRE,                                                                    
explained that  eminent domain is  a little  difference than                                                                    
most statutes  passed.  Eminent  domain is designed to  be a                                                                    
Court issue and is a  Court proceeding.  The intent language                                                                    
was  added in  order to  indicate  that the  policy will  be                                                                    
determined by the Legislature.   It should not be the policy                                                                    
of the judge or the Court.   The language clearly spells out                                                                    
that intent and  is why it was included.   The bill will not                                                                    
live  or die  by its'  intent but  it does  clarify what  is                                                                    
meant.   He  recommended  that the  language  remain in  the                                                                    
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:47:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  concurred.   He asked if  the sponsor                                                                    
thought    the   intent    language    went   far    enough.                                                                    
Representative  McGuire  said  she   was  satisfied  as  the                                                                    
language summarizes the most important points.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:48:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked if the language  could possibly                                                                    
create  too narrow  of  an  interpretation.   Representative                                                                    
McGuire  replied  that  a  Court would  look  at  the  plain                                                                    
language of the  Statute.  She reiterated that  the bill had                                                                    
been through many  drafts and that she  thought it currently                                                                    
has the right balance.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:49:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch asked if  the sponsor would support                                                                    
the  amendment  discussed  on  Section  (e).    Mr.  Johnson                                                                    
thought  it would  be appropriate  and would  strengthen the                                                                    
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:50:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVE FEEKEN, BROKER, ALASKA  ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS, KENAI,                                                                    
testified that  the legislation is  a big issue and  part of                                                                    
the   national  association's   agenda.     He  noted   that                                                                    
currently, the  Association of Realtors  are in  the process                                                                    
of helping  thirty-eight states review their  eminent domain                                                                    
laws.   He noted the three primary issues:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
   • Concrete definition of public use;                                                                                       
   • Concrete definition of eminent domain; and                                                                               
   • Move any issue of eminent domain to the level of                                                                         
     elected officials                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Feeken  pointed  out  that  in  national  surveys,  97%                                                                    
indicated they are opposed to  what happened in Connecticut.                                                                    
Currently,  there are  approximately  10,000 eminent  domain                                                                    
cases in the United States at this time.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Feeken  testified  that  the  Alaska  Realtors  support                                                                    
approximately 90%  of HB 318.   One  of the major  issues is                                                                    
that of  recreational property.   He  pointed out  that less                                                                    
than 1%  of Alaska is in  private hands.  The  issue is that                                                                    
25%-35% of  the real  estate industry is  second homes.   He                                                                    
referenced  Page  4,  Subsection ©,  recommending  that  the                                                                    
concern of  the realtors  could be  solved by  deleting that                                                                    
Section.   He  estimated  that  40% of  the  1% is  probably                                                                    
recreational property in Alaska.   Alaska is a growing State                                                                    
and there are many people with second homes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:55:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Feeken  discussed  property  on  the  Kenai  River  and                                                                    
cautioned  legislators  to  be  careful  when  dealing  with                                                                    
public  recreation  access.     That  addresses  a  person's                                                                    
quality  of  life  and  the ability  to  use  their  private                                                                    
property; it could dramatically  decrease the value of their                                                                    
properties.  He emphasized  that the word "recreation" means                                                                    
something  different  throughout  the  State  and  for  each                                                                    
person.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:56:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer inquired  if the  issue arose  in the  House                                                                    
Judiciary Committee.    Mr.  Feeken did  not know as  he was                                                                    
out of town at that time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:57:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RON  ESTRADA,   (TESTIFIED  VIA   TELECONFERENCE),  PROPERTY                                                                    
OWNER, FAIRBANKS, explained a  situation that threatened his                                                                    
property  in Fairbanks.   He  related financial  concerns as                                                                    
the City  of Fairbanks had  offered him only  one-quarter of                                                                    
what  he  had  invested  in  his  home  and  property.    He                                                                    
testified in favor of HB 318.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:59:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm thanked Mr.  Estrada for testifying.  He                                                                    
inquired if  there was  an appeals  process available.   Mr.                                                                    
Estrada did not know of one.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:00:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROD   ARNO,   (TESTIFIED  VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   EXECUTIVE                                                                    
DIRECTOR,   ALASKA   OUTDOOR   COUNCIL   (AOC),   ANCHORAGE,                                                                    
addressed  concerns  in  accessing  public  lands  prior  to                                                                    
statehood.  AOC is worried with  areas such as in the Mat-Su                                                                    
Borough,   where  developed   management   plans  have   the                                                                    
authority to restrict access to  public waters.  He spoke in                                                                    
support of Amendment #1 and HB 318.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:02:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Joule  asked if  there was  an example  of an                                                                    
individual trying to get access  to public waters.  He noted                                                                    
concern if it  would relate to Native  Corporation or Native                                                                    
allotment land.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SARAH  GILBERTSON, LEGISLATIVE  LIAISON, DEPARTMENT  OF FISH                                                                    
AND  GAME, JUNEAU,  believed that  Mr. Arno  was referencing                                                                    
private  lands and  some borough  management plans,  both of                                                                    
which are prohibiting public access  to lakes in the Mat-Su.                                                                    
She acknowledged that there have  been problems with O'Brien                                                                    
Creek at Chitna.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule thought  that  would  have a  "general                                                                    
application",  however, would  be  intended  for a  specific                                                                    
area.  Ms. Gilbertson said yes.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:05:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm MOVED  to ADOPT  the New  New Amendment                                                                    
#1.     Representative  Kerttula  OBJECTED   for  discussion                                                                    
purposes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
NEW NEW AMENDMENT #1                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, Line 6: Delete "natural resources area,"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, Line 7: Delete "access to a wilderness area,"                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, Line 8: Delete "facility, personal use fishery"                                                                         
                Insert "harbor"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, Line 28: Delete "and"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, Line 30, following "AS 41.21": Insert                                                                                   
          "; and (ix)  a path, trail, road, or site for                                                                         
          which no reasonable alternative exists and, which                                                                     
          is  necessary  to  preserve  or  establish  public                                                                    
          access  to publicly  owned land  or water,  if the                                                                    
          use of  the path, trail,  road, or site  itself is                                                                    
          for  transportation to  or  to  facilitate use  of                                                                    
          publicly   owned  land   or   water  rather   than                                                                    
          primarily for recreation."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson  stated that  the sponsor  had no  problems with                                                                    
the amendment.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:06:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Gilbertson related  a story  about the  Alaska National                                                                    
Interest  Lands Conservation  Act  (ANILCA),  which goes  to                                                                    
great  lengths to  maintain access  to lands  and waters  in                                                                    
Alaska.  The amendment  is about maintaining, preserving and                                                                    
establishing  the  necessary  access   to  public  land  and                                                                    
waters.   The amendment  would maintain the  State's current                                                                    
ability to use eminent domain under narrow circumstances.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula questioned  if "we  are out  of the                                                                    
area  of  private, private"  and  if  the legislation  would                                                                    
expand  the  State's  authority  of  eminent  domain.    Ms.                                                                    
Gilbertson  related  that  the   purpose  of  the  amendment                                                                    
clarifies  that  the  State's authority  of  eminent  domain                                                                    
cannot be used for recreational trails.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  BAKER,   (TESTIFIED  VIA   TELECONFERENCE),  ATTORNEY,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF  LAW, REPRESENTING THE DEPARTMENT  OF FISH AND                                                                    
GAME,  &  THE  DEPARTMENT  OF NATURAL  RESOURCES,  spoke  to                                                                    
Representative   Kerttula's   question   noting   that   the                                                                    
amendment does not speak to  a "private - private transfer".                                                                    
When  there  is  literally no  reasonable  alternative,  the                                                                    
State was attempting to preserve  access for the public, the                                                                    
land taken could not be used for recreational purposes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  questioned  if Amendment  #1  adds                                                                    
language not  in current law.    Mr. Baker advised  that the                                                                    
amendment is designed  to provide a narrow  exception to the                                                                    
new restriction  on the  use of  eminent domain  affected by                                                                    
Section  E,  Page  4,  Line  10.    Representative  Kerttula                                                                    
reiterated, if the change would  take the State back to what                                                                    
we currently have.  Mr.  Baker clarified that it will narrow                                                                    
the  restriction  and  added that  the  amendment  does  not                                                                    
extend any powers of eminent domain.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:12:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson interjected  that the bill would  narrow what is                                                                    
currently in  place.  It  is not the  intent of the  bill to                                                                    
restrict any existing policy on eminent domain.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula summarized  her understanding of the                                                                    
bill,  which   takes  away  the  right-of-access   and  then                                                                    
attempts to place  the access back in  through Amendment #1.                                                                    
She questioned  whether the bill  reaches further  than what                                                                    
is currently in statute.  Mr. Baker agreed it does.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  referred  to a  dip-net  case  and                                                                    
asked if the proposed bill  would have changed that outcome.                                                                    
Mr.  Baker  brought up  another  aspect  of eminent  domain,                                                                    
stating that it  would still remain the burden  of the State                                                                    
to make a  finding that is necessary to take  the land.  The                                                                    
bill  would not  change the  burden of  the State  regarding                                                                    
eminent domain.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  commented  that was  because  they                                                                    
would have  to prove the  public use  & purpose.   Mr. Baker                                                                    
agreed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula  WITHDREW her OBJECTION to  the New,                                                                    
New Amendment #1.  There  being NO further OBJECTION, it was                                                                    
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:16:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment  #2,  #24-                                                                    
LS1083\S.3,  Bullock, 2/9/06.    (Copy on  File).   Co-Chair                                                                    
Meyer OBJECTED for discussion purposes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm explained  that  Amendment #2  provides                                                                    
technical corrections.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
AMENDMENT #2                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Page 1, Line 14: Delete "primary"                                                                                               
                 Insert "personal"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Page 2, Line 11: Delete "(d), (e), and (f)"                                                                                     
                 Insert (d) and (e)                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Page 4, Line 12: Delete "primary"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION.    Representative                                                                    
Kerttula  OBJECTED and  asked if  the language  would affect                                                                    
any personal property.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Johnson  referred   Representative  Kerttula   to  the                                                                    
definition  section   where  it  is  defined   as  "personal                                                                    
dwelling".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:17:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  asked  Mr. Johnson  to  address  the                                                                    
realtor's   desire  to   include   definition  of   personal                                                                    
property.   Mr. Johnson responded that  the sponsor's policy                                                                    
decision  was that  a  persons  land was  their  home.   The                                                                    
legislation  was  primarily  written  to  protect  someone's                                                                    
home.   He  said  that  the bill  has  become a  compromise.                                                                    
Representative Hawker concurred with the sponsor's attempt.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kerttula  WITHDREW  her  OBJECTION.    There                                                                    
being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment #2 was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:20:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment  #3,  #24-                                                                    
LS1083\S.1,  Bullock, 2/9/06.    (Copy on  File).   Co-Chair                                                                    
Meyer OBJECTED.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm explained Amendment  #3 would change the                                                                    
word "law" and replace it with "statute" in Section #4.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Putzier addressed  Amendment #3.  The  Department of Law                                                                    
has not  had an  opportunity to examine  the amendment.   He                                                                    
asked to  have a  little time to  verify that  the amendment                                                                    
would  not restrict  the  practice of  eminent  domain.   He                                                                    
stated that the Administration could  not take a position at                                                                    
present time.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked if  the language  would exclude                                                                    
ordinances   and   if   that  would   be   of   consequence.                                                                    
Representative Holm replied that he could not answer that.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:23:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Baker agreed  with Mr. Putzier, since he had  not had an                                                                    
opportunity to look at the amendment.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TIM LAMKIN,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE JIM HOLM,  noted that the                                                                    
amendment  was offered  in light  of potential  ambiguity of                                                                    
the  Legislative  Branch   determining  the  definition  for                                                                    
public use as  opposed to a public agency  or regulation and                                                                    
in the absence of a statute to make that definition.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:24:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  agreed, stating that he  did not like                                                                    
law  imposed by  regulation.   He  worried  that the  change                                                                    
could  override the  Constitution  or  other legitimate  law                                                                    
bodies.    He  recommended  that the  amendment  be  further                                                                    
clarified.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm  agreed and indicated his  intent was to                                                                    
make  the  language  a  more narrow  application.    If  the                                                                    
language  does  create  possible  ambiguity  or  remove  any                                                                    
capabilities, then he would not move it.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer asked if the  Department of Law could provide                                                                    
an answer by Monday.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:26:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch  suggested it  be discussed  in the                                                                    
context of  statute and how  it would  affect case law.   He                                                                    
thought  it  could  be  legislative   action  and  that  the                                                                    
"statute"  was  clear that  a  Legislative  passed bill  and                                                                    
"regulation" indicates administrative action.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm  clarified it was  his intent for  it to                                                                    
be  statute and  not regulation.   He  did not  know if  the                                                                    
language of  the amendment  was the  correct way  to present                                                                    
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:27:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Weyhrauch asked  if Representative Holm meant                                                                    
"statute" passed  by Legislature  not the  Executive Branch.                                                                    
Representative Holm  said he did.   Co-Chair  Meyer inquired                                                                    
if that could be accomplished by  a minor change made to the                                                                    
amendment.  Representative Weyhrauch did not think so.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:27:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm inquired  if the intent was  to pass the                                                                    
legislation  from Committee  at this  time.   Co-Chair Meyer                                                                    
replied it was.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:28:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch stated  that he  could adjust  the                                                                    
amendment conceptually.  Co-Chair  Meyer voiced concern with                                                                    
the ambiguity of Amendment #3.   He wanted to guarantee that                                                                    
it was clear.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm WITHDREW Amendment  #3 and said it could                                                                    
be offered on  the House Floor.  Mr. Johnson  noted that the                                                                    
sponsor would support that.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:29:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  MOVED  to  ADOPT  Amendment  #4,  #24-                                                                    
LS1083\S.4,  Bullock, 2/9/06.    (Copy on  File).   Co-Chair                                                                    
Meyer OBJECTED.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
AMENTMENT #4                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Page 1, line 14, following "residence":                                                                                         
     Insert "or a landowner's small business"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Page 4, line 12, following "residence":                                                                                         
     Insert ", the landowner's small business, "                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Page 4, line 14, following "residence":                                                                                         
     Insert "or a landowner's small business"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Page 5, line 30, following "AS 41.21":                                                                                          
      Insert "; (6) "small business" means a structure that                                                                     
      is the primary location of a business that                                                                                
           (A) employs fewer than 26 individuals;                                                                               
           (B) has been located on the land that is the                                                                         
          subject of the eminent domain proceeding for not                                                                      
          less than one year; and                                                                                               
           (C) may not have been constructed, placed, or                                                                        
          occupied for the purpose of avoiding eminent                                                                          
          domain proceedings"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:30:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  asked about  the definition  of small                                                                    
business  and the  "structure".   He asked  if it  should be                                                                    
primary or  only the general location.   Representative Holm                                                                    
did not know if primary would be the correct word.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:32:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice  Chair Stoltze  commented that  small  business in  his                                                                    
area were  agricultural entities.   He  asked the  intent of                                                                    
the amendment.  Representative  Holm replied that the intent                                                                    
was that when  dealing with a person's  business, the number                                                                    
of people employed should not define it.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:33:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair Stoltze  was confused by the  use of "structure".                                                                    
He did not  want to exclude something.   Representative Holm                                                                    
thought that depriving a person  of a structure would be one                                                                    
thing, whereas, depriving a person  of land takes the value.                                                                    
By taking  the structure  away, there  is an  on-going value                                                                    
destroyed.   Land  does not  fit into  that category.   Vice                                                                    
Chair Stoltze  commented on the  push of development  in the                                                                    
Mat-Su Valley  and said he would  be remiss if that  was not                                                                    
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:34:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Lamkin pointed  out that a structure  measures 250' with                                                                    
a line  is drawn.   The intent  behind the amendment  was to                                                                    
protect  the spirit  of the  small  mom &  pop business  and                                                                    
their livelihood.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson noted that the  sponsor had viewed Amendment #4.                                                                    
The  policy call  of the  House Judiciary  Committee was  to                                                                    
deal with  only the home.   He recognized that  the proposed                                                                    
was  a valid  point  in the  section addressing  recreation.                                                                    
The typical fix or requirement  is eminent domain.  There is                                                                    
a  structure to  be taken  for recreational  purposes.    He                                                                    
added  that  Representative  McGuire would  not  oppose  the                                                                    
amendment, however, it is not the legislation's intent.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:37:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  stated that  a  number  of years  ago,                                                                    
trail groups  took land for  recreation; he admitted  he was                                                                    
sensitive to that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kerttula asked if  the amendment only applied                                                                    
to  the recreation  section and  would not  affect something                                                                    
like Wal-Mart.  Representative Holm agreed.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer hoped  that small business as  defined in the                                                                    
amendment  was  the correct  legal  language.   Mr.  Johnson                                                                    
advised  that  there  had  been  equal  protection  concerns                                                                    
voiced.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Putzier reiterated that Amendment  #4 did arrive shortly                                                                    
before the  hearing.  He  recommended the issue,  which that                                                                    
should  be   further  discussed  is  the   equal  protection                                                                    
component.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:40:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Baker echoed  the advice  of Mr.  Putzier, noting  that                                                                    
they had identified equal protection  as an argument someone                                                                    
might make in the future.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kerttula  asked   if   that  language   was                                                                    
potentially  opening the  door  to larger  businesses.   Mr.                                                                    
Putzier  replied it  would.    Representative Kerttula  said                                                                    
that was worrisome.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm was  not  worried.   He  noted that  in                                                                    
essence,  it is  about equal  protection for  a person  that                                                                    
owns a  business and a  house.  The amendment  would protect                                                                    
both.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:41:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  recommended  a change  to  the  real                                                                    
property  and the  primary location  of that  business.   He                                                                    
proposed  new  language,  Amendment  #4, Page  1,  Line  12:                                                                    
"means  real property  that  is the  primary  location of  a                                                                    
business".  Representative Hawker  thought that change could                                                                    
address the ideas of Vice Chair Stoltze.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:43:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson  reiterated that  it was not  the intent  of the                                                                    
original legislation.   He pointed out that  the sponsor has                                                                    
indicated  she  would  not oppose  anything  that  does  not                                                                    
damage the original intent of the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Johnson  responded to Representative  Hawker's comments.                                                                    
He provided a possible scenario.   He worried that a careful                                                                    
balance is maintained.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:45:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  recommended that the amendment  be withdrawn                                                                    
to be  considered by Legal  Services and Department  of Law.                                                                    
Representative Holm  stated that HB  318 is one of  the most                                                                    
important bills  that the Legislature  will pass  this year;                                                                    
he  stated that  the amendment  is important  and should  be                                                                    
considered along with the bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer believed  that equal  protection  is a  huge                                                                    
concern.   Mr. Johnson  agreed.   He noted  that he  did not                                                                    
oppose   the   amendment,   however,  there   are   pitfalls                                                                    
associated with  it.   He noted that  the attorneys  and the                                                                    
sponsor  would be  willing to  work  on that  language.   He                                                                    
added that it is the desire  of the sponsor to move the bill                                                                    
as soon as possible.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:47:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Holm  WITHDREW Amendment  #4. There  being NO                                                                    
OBJECTION, it was WITHDRAWN.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:48:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Weyhrauch   MOVED  a   conceptual   change,                                                                    
Amendment #5, Page 4, following  Line 14, "unless the person                                                                    
otherwise  agrees".   He  stated that  the  purpose of  that                                                                    
language would  be no blanket prohibition  on eminent domain                                                                    
or private property.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:48:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer OBJECTED for discussion purposes.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Johnson  interjected  that   the  sponsor  agrees  with                                                                    
Amendment #5.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  WITHDREW his  OBJECTION.    There being  NO                                                                    
further OBJECTION, conceptual Amendment #5 was adopted.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:49:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer requested that  Representative Holm follow up                                                                    
with Legislative Legal Services on Amendments #3 and #4.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster  MOVED to REPORT  CS HB 318  (FIN) out                                                                    
of Committee  with individual  recommendations and  with the                                                                    
accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice Chair  Stoltze OBJECTED for  comment.   He acknowledged                                                                    
that  it is  an important  bill and  stated that  the public                                                                    
record  is very  important on  the issue.   He  WITHDREW his                                                                    
OBJECTION.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:50:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer agreed  and  acknowledged  that the  subject                                                                    
needs to be discussed with legal counsel.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS  HB  318  (FIN)  was   reported  out  of  Committee  with                                                                    
"individual recommendations"  and with  zero note #1  by the                                                                    
Department  of Commerce,  Community &  Economic Development,                                                                    
zero   note   #2   by  the   Department   of   Environmental                                                                    
Conservation, and  indeterminate note  #3 by  the Department                                                                    
of Law, indeterminate  note #4 by the  Department of Natural                                                                    
Resources  and indeterminate  note #5  by the  Department of                                                                    
Transportation & Public Facilities.                                                                                             
3:50:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:51 P.M.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                

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