Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/17/2005 01:30 PM FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
= HB 108 WATER & SEWER UTILITIES OF POLIT. SUBDIV.
Moved CSHB 108(FIN) Out of Committee
= HB 19 PESTICIDE & BROADCAST CHEMICALS
Moved CSHB 19(FIN) Out of Committee
= HB 61 CHARITABLE GAMING; CALCUTTA POOLS
Moved CSHB 61(FIN) Out of Committee
= HB 88 OFFENSES BY MINORS/AGAINST TEACHERS
Heard & Held
                   HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                       March 17, 2005                                                                                           
                          1:45 p.m.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
 Co-Chair  Meyer called  the House  Finance Committee  meeting                                                                  
to order at 1:45:10 PM.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Jim Holm                                                                                                         
Representative Reggie Joule                                                                                                     
Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                       
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Lesil  McGuire;  Suzanne   Cunningham,  Staff,                                                                  
Representative   Kevin   Meyer;  Michael   Pawlowski,   Staff,                                                                  
Representative  Kevin Meyer; Kristin Ryan, Director,  Division                                                                  
of   Environmental   Health,   Department   of   Environmental                                                                  
Conservation;  Shalon Szymanski,  Staff, Representative  Lesil                                                                  
McGuire; Randy  Ruaro, Legislation  Regulation, Department  of                                                                  
Law; Anthony  Newman,  Program Officer,  Division of  Juvenile                                                                  
Justice, Department of Health and Social Services                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mark Premo, Anchorage  Municipality, Anchorage;  Larry Meyers,                                                                  
Deputy  Director,   Tax  Division,   Department  of   Revenue,                                                                  
Anchorage;   Kate  Giard,  Chair,  Regulatory   Commission  of                                                                  
Alaska, Anchorage                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 19     An Act relating to pesticides and broadcast                                                                           
          chemicals; and providing for an effective date.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 19 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with                                                                     
          a  "no recommendation"  and with  a new fiscal  note                                                                  
          by the Department of Environmental Conservation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB 61     An Act relating to licensing for a Calcutta pool                                                                      
          as a game of chance.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 61 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with                                                                     
          a  "no recommendation"  and with indeterminate  note                                                                  
          #1 by the Department of Revenue.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB 88     An Act relating to certain weapons offenses                                                                           
          involving   minors;   to  aggravating   factors   in                                                                  
          sentencing  for certain  offenses committed  against                                                                  
          a  school employee; and  providing for an  effective                                                                  
          date.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          HB 88 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further                                                                     
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 108    An  Act  relating to  the  regulation  of water  and                                                                  
          sewer  utilities of political subdivisions  that are                                                                  
          not  in  competition  with  other  water  and  sewer                                                                  
          utilities.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 108 (FIN) was reported out of Committee with                                                                    
          a "no  recommendation" and with zero  note #1 by the                                                                  
          Department  of  Environmental  Conservation,  fiscal                                                                  
          note  #2 by the Department of Commerce,  Community &                                                                  
          Economic  Development  and  fiscal  note  #3 by  the                                                                  
          Department of Law.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:46:03 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 108                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to the regulation of water and sewer                                                                       
     utilities of political subdivisions that are not in                                                                        
      competition with other water and sewer utilities.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Foster  MOVED  to   ADOPT  work  draft   #24-                                                                  
LS0455\F, Craver,  3/17/05, as the version of  the bill before                                                                  
the Committee.   There being NO OBJECTION, it  was so ordered.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SUZANNE   CUNNINGHAM,  STAFF,   REPRESENTATIVE  KEVIN   MEYER,                                                                  
explained   that  the   committee  substitute   includes   the                                                                  
addition  of the two  previously  adopted amendments  creating                                                                  
an "F" version  of the bill.  She added that in  reviewing the                                                                  
draft,  it  was  brought  to  the  Sponsor's  attention  by  a                                                                  
representative  of  the  Municipality   of  Anchorage  that  a                                                                  
technical  change was  needed  under Section  3.   On Page  2,                                                                  
Line  28,  and  on Page  3,  Line  5,  "appointed"  should  be                                                                  
deleted and replaced  with "approved".  The Anchorage  charter                                                                  
does  not allow  for a  member to  be appointed  but they  are                                                                  
allowed to be approved.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze asked  if approved  would implicitly  mean                                                                  
appointed and approved.  Ms. Cunningham said that it would.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch attempted  to clarify the  statement                                                                  
made  by Vice  Chair Stoltze.   Vice-Chair  Stoltze  commented                                                                  
that it was a semantics concern.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm asked  what  would happen  if the  person                                                                  
was  not approved.   Co-Chair  Meyer  thought  that the  mayor                                                                  
would have  to make  the appointment.   Ms. Cunningham  agreed                                                                  
that  the  mayor  would have  to  make  appointments  to  come                                                                  
before  the assembly  for approval  to fill  the spots on  the                                                                  
board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Weyhrauch   thought  that   there  would   be                                                                  
members, some  appointed and approved.   Those appointed,  but                                                                  
not  approved,  would not  have  a counting  vote.    Co-Chair                                                                  
Meyer agreed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MARK   PREMO,  (TESTIFIED   VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   ANCHORAGE                                                                  
MUNICIPALITY,   ANCHORAGE,  clarified   that  the  powers   of                                                                  
appointment  rests with the mayor;  the powers of  approval or                                                                  
confirmation  rests  with   the  assembly.    Until  they  are                                                                  
approved  by the  assembly, they  are a  non-voting member  of                                                                  
the board.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Holm  commented  on  the  specifics   of  the                                                                  
board's make-up.   He  asked what would  happen if they  could                                                                  
not get the approval of the members on the board.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly inquired if the Anchorage  utility opted                                                                  
out, would  those people  be laid off  and the expenses  taken                                                                  
from the Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA).                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KATE GIARD, (TESTIFIED VIA  TELECONFERENCE), CHAIR, REGULATORY                                                                  
COMMISSION  OF ALASKA (RCA),  ANCHORAGE,  explained that  when                                                                  
any utility  becomes unregulated,  their revenues come  out of                                                                  
the pool  of the  revenues calculated  by the  RCA.  The  pool                                                                  
revenues  then  become  smaller.     There  is  not  a  direct                                                                  
correlation  between  an  employee and  any  regular  utility.                                                                  
All revenues would then get smaller.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:55:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  commented  on  a  conflict  within  the                                                                  
Fairbanks utilities  and the mess,  which resulted  from that.                                                                  
He  asked  about   the  "authority"  to  deal   with  such  an                                                                  
oversight.   Co-Chair  Meyer advised  that  there was  concern                                                                  
regarding   the  checks  and   balances  from  the   Anchorage                                                                  
Assembly.  For  some folks, that was not enough  insurance and                                                                  
consequently, the  idea of an authority came into  play, which                                                                  
would oversee rate increases.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly requested  future information  regarding                                                                  
the process.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze MOVED  to  ADOPT the  proposed changes  on                                                                  
Pages 2  & 3, deleting "appointed"  and inserting  "approved".                                                                  
There being NO OBJECTION, the changes were adopted.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster MOVED to report CS HB 108  (FIN) out of                                                                  
Committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                  
accompanying fiscal  notes.  There being NO OBJECTION,  it was                                                                  
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  108 (FIN)  was  reported out  of Committee  with a  "no                                                                  
recommendation"  and with  zero note #1  by the Department  of                                                                  
Environmental Conservation,  fiscal note #2 by  the Department                                                                  
of Commerce,  Community  and Economic  Development and  fiscal                                                                  
note #3 by the Department of Law.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:59:03 PM                                                                                                                    
HOUSE BILL NO. 19                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to pesticides and broadcast chemicals;                                                                     
     and providing for an effective date.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL   PAWLOWSKI,   STAFF,  REPRESENTATIVE   KEVIN   MEYER,                                                                  
explained  that  Amendment  #3 resulted  from  a  conversation                                                                  
during the  last hearing on HB 19.   (Copy on File).   Part of                                                                  
the  discussion  revolved around  a  hornet's  nest under  the                                                                  
edge  or  eves of  a  bread  and  breakfast.   He  noted  that                                                                  
Amendment #3 address  where the health concerns  are that give                                                                  
rise to  the reason that  HB 19 is before  the Committee.   He                                                                  
requested  that the Department  of Environmental  Conservation                                                                  
discuss the health  concerns and definitions currently  before                                                                  
the Committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:01:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KRISTIN  RYAN,  DIRECTOR, DIVISION  OF  ENVIRONMENTAL  HEALTH,                                                                  
DEPARTMENT  OF ENVIRONMENTAL  CONSERVATION,  pointed out  that                                                                  
where  the   Department  witnesses   the  most  concern   with                                                                  
pesticides  is  in long-term  exposure.    The areas  of  most                                                                  
concern  are  places  such as  apartments  while  spraying  is                                                                  
occurring  or in a  park where  grass is  being sprayed.   She                                                                  
stated that  public notice  makes the most  sense in  areas of                                                                  
significant exposure.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski  followed   up  that  the  idea  is  to  remove                                                                  
reference to the  business community but still  include parks,                                                                  
apartments and public sport fields.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer passed  the gavel  to  Vice-Chair Stoltze  and                                                                  
requested that he Chair this portion of the meeting.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  MOVED  to ADOPT  Amendment  #3.    Vice-Chair                                                                  
Stoltze OBJECTED for the purpose of discussion.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pawlowski clarified  that the definitions  were taken from                                                                  
the previous  sections,  B, C  & D.   He added  that they  had                                                                  
attempted to "tidy up" the definition.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  asked  if  those  impacts  were  for  the                                                                  
customers  but not necessarily  for the  employees.   He asked                                                                  
if  the  employees  were  assumed  to know  the  risks.    Mr.                                                                  
Pawlowski  said  that  was  correct  and would  then  move  to                                                                  
worker's compensation issues.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Holm  noted   support   for  the   amendment;                                                                  
however, did not know if he could support the bill.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly interjected  that he was not  opposed to                                                                  
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:06:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kelly  discussed   that  the  Department   of                                                                  
Environmental Conservation  regulates and controls  restricted                                                                  
chemicals.   He  was concerned  that  the State  would not  be                                                                  
able to provide  the necessary oversight.  He  knew that it is                                                                  
against  the law  to hurt  neighbors.   He questioned  whether                                                                  
tying the costs of covering and exposure concerns was wise.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  responded that the  intent was to  address the                                                                  
public health issue.   Alaska is the only State  that does not                                                                  
require  the large chemical  companies  to pay a  registration                                                                  
fee.   He  believed  that  the chemical  companies  should  be                                                                  
asked to pay costs to run the program.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:09:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Ryan  explained   the  work  of  the  Department.     The                                                                  
Department  registers chemicals  that are  available for  sale                                                                  
in  Alaska.   The  Department is  already  inspecting  stores.                                                                  
Currently,  they  inspect  the  use  chemicals,  by  certified                                                                  
applicators.    The bill  requests  that  the public  must  be                                                                  
notified when some  of the restricted use chemicals  are being                                                                  
sprayed.  The bill  is being scaled back by the  amendment and                                                                  
only affects  areas  where long-term  or significant  exposure                                                                  
can occur.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Ryan  thought that  the certified  applicator portion  was                                                                  
more  significant  than the  notification.   It  is  important                                                                  
that  the people  that  are applying  the chemicals  know  the                                                                  
basics  of  how to  do  it right  and  safely.   HB  19  would                                                                  
accomplish  that.   It  will make  manufacturers,  who  profit                                                                  
from the use of the chemicals, help pay for that use.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:11:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze WITHDREW  his OBJECTION  to Amendment  #3.                                                                  
There being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment #3 was adopted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm asked  the definition  of pesticide.   He                                                                  
read  the definition  that it  was anything  that could  alter                                                                  
the  state of  a living  being whether  it  is plant,  fungus,                                                                  
animal or insect.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm warned the Department of  the "largeness"                                                                  
of the  proposed action.   Ms.  Ryan responded  that the  bill                                                                  
only impacts chemicals  that the State already  registers. The                                                                  
Federal  Insecticide  Act  is the  legislation  that  dictates                                                                  
what  pesticides  hinder growth.    The products  are  labeled                                                                  
regarding  their safe  use.  If  it is not  used according  to                                                                  
the label,  federal and state law  is violated.  She  admitted                                                                  
that language  is broad.   The chemicals  in Alaska amount  to                                                                  
over  5700  products.   The  Department  will  exempt  certain                                                                  
items from that fee.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:14:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
She  acknowledged that  the broadcast  chemical  term is  also                                                                  
broad.   It is  defined in  Statute,  as chemical  substances,                                                                  
which  are  released  into air  for  purposes  of  preventing,                                                                  
retarding,  destroying or  stimulating plant  or animal  life.                                                                  
He  thought  that  HB  19  is  restricted   to  the  chemicals                                                                  
registered through the registration process already.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Holm  referenced  "stimulating"   growth  and                                                                  
asked  if fertilizer  would be  included.   He questioned  how                                                                  
that could  be monitored  in public areas.   He worried  about                                                                  
the "camel's nose  under the tent".  He emphasized  that there                                                                  
is  a   "huge"  oversight   of  already   federally   mandated                                                                  
programs.   Representative Holm thought  that there was  a lot                                                                  
of money  being spent  by the chemical  companies to  properly                                                                  
register  and  label  their  products.     The  Department  of                                                                  
Environmental Conservation  does not have the  personnel to go                                                                  
through  the  process  to  properly   educate  people  how  to                                                                  
duplicate  the federal process.   He  questioned the  need for                                                                  
the legislation.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:16:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm questioned  if the  public would  be well                                                                  
served by  undertaking the proposed  work.  He found  the bill                                                                  
to be potentially onerous.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Meyer  pointed  out   that  Representative   Holm's                                                                  
insights  were expressed  in regards  to the  program that  is                                                                  
already in  statute.   HB 19 only  clarifies that the  program                                                                  
already  in  existence  will  now  be  paid  by  the  chemical                                                                  
companies  instead of the  general fund.   Getting rid  of the                                                                  
program could be addressed through the budgetary process.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:19:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Pawlowski addressed  the  changes to  the revised  fiscal                                                                  
note.    He  noted   that  the  Department  of   Environmental                                                                  
Conservation thought  that the three positions  could be dealt                                                                  
with in the  normal budgetary process.   The note  was reduced                                                                  
in  the travel  line,  reduced  the  contractual line  by  $10                                                                  
thousand  dollars, reduced  supplies by  $1 thousand  dollars,                                                                  
reduced  equipment and  brought  the realized  revenue to  the                                                                  
general fund.   In year one, there  would be a $96.4  thousand                                                                  
general  fund  dollar  increase  which would  improve  by  $20                                                                  
thousand dollars.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer noted that  it would  save approximately  $100                                                                  
thousand  dollars in year  one.  Mr.  Pawlowski added  that in                                                                  
year two, the State  would realize approximately  $18 thousand                                                                  
dollars  in subsequent  advantage.   The costs  of setting  up                                                                  
the program  billing  system would  be absorbed  in year  one.                                                                  
That  would  allow the  addition  of  the second  position  to                                                                  
allow  for the  regulation  and  enforcement of  the  program.                                                                  
The real  advantage  is that  the fees  could subsequently  be                                                                  
reduced.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze mentioned  correspondence  his office  has                                                                  
received on  the issue.  He  asked if the Department's  larger                                                                  
concern was  collecting the  fees or the  public health.   Ms.                                                                  
Ryan  emphasized  that the  primary  focus is  public  health.                                                                  
Additionally, a  company that is benefiting from  the use of a                                                                  
product should  be paying  their share.   Knowing that  Alaska                                                                  
is the only  State that does not  do that, it is  a legitimate                                                                  
request to have the fees supports the program.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze asked if the  Department would  be willing                                                                  
to  make due  with less  for  the publics  health.   Ms.  Ryan                                                                  
advised  that the Department  made a  compromise knowing  that                                                                  
the  amendment would  deal  directly with  a  decrease in  the                                                                  
workload.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:23:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm  referenced  that the  current  pesticide                                                                  
definition  includes biological agents  such as ladybugs.   He                                                                  
distributed  a list  of biological  agents.   (Copy on  File).                                                                  
He reiterated that the legislation would be a huge step.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:24:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Kelly  understood  that  the   Department  is                                                                  
currently  doing the  work and  asked what  would be  changed.                                                                  
Ms. Ryan  responded that  there would  need to be  regulations                                                                  
                                                            st                                                                  
written to  address general  fund money  going away,  July 1.                                                                   
There will  need to  be fees  to replace  that to sustain  the                                                                  
work.  Writing regulations is a significant amount of work.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  interjected that the bill will  require that a                                                                  
notice  be  distributed  regarding   what  pesticide  will  be                                                                  
sprayed  in certain  public  areas.   It  is a  right to  know                                                                  
bill.     Ms.  Ryan  added  that   there  would  be   two  new                                                                  
requirements:                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
   ·    They will have to use a certified applicator to                                                                         
        apply pesticides in a park or apartment building;                                                                       
        and                                                                                                                     
   ·    Those certified applicators would have to post a                                                                        
        sign so that people are aware that spraying has                                                                         
        occurred in the area.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:27:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster MOVED to report  CS HB 19 (FIN)  out of                                                                  
Committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                  
accompanying  new fiscal note.   There being NO OBJECTION,  it                                                                  
was so ordered.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CS  HB 19  (FIN) was  reported  out of  Committee  with a  "no                                                                  
recommendation"  and with a new fiscal note by  the Department                                                                  
of Environmental Conservation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:        2:28:38 PM                                                                                                      
RECONVENE:      2:30:33 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 61                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to licensing for a Calcutta pool as a                                                                      
     game of chance.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Stoltze  MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   #2,  #24-                                                                  
LS0281\F.1, Luckhaupt,  3/17/05.  Co-Chair Meyer  OBJECTED for                                                                  
the purpose of discussion.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  explained that the amendment  would narrow                                                                  
the scope of the bill.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SHALON  SZYMANSKI,   STAFF,   REPRESENTATIVE  LESIL   MCGUIRE,                                                                  
agreed that was a fair calculation of the amendment.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:33:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  asked  if  there  was  a  prohibition  on                                                                  
participants  engaging  in wagering.   Ms.  Szymanski  pointed                                                                  
out that  Section  8, Page  3, mentions  that the  competitors                                                                  
must be  18 years  or older.   She thought  language could  be                                                                  
added to  address that the person  placing the wagers  also be                                                                  
18 years of age or older.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  reiterated his question regarding  whether                                                                  
the  participants should  be prohibited  from  wagering.   Ms.                                                                  
Szymanski   replied   that  in   many  Calcutta   pools,   the                                                                  
competitors  also have  the ability  to place  wagers.   Vice-                                                                  
Chair Stoltze suggested that should be a regulatory issue.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LESIL MCGUIRE,  SPONSOR, explained that  there                                                                  
must be  written regulations  in  that area.   She provided  a                                                                  
brief history  of the bill, advising  that the overall  intent                                                                  
is to  make law-abiding  citizens  of those  people that  have                                                                  
been  putting   together   these  type   activities  for   the                                                                  
charities.    Over  the  years,  there  has  been  a  sort  of                                                                  
"chilling effect" on them.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:37:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  asked  if  a  title  change  could  be  made.                                                                  
Representative McGuire replied it could.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Foster OBJECTED to  Amendment #2.  He  did not                                                                  
know of  any golf course  in Southwest  Alaska.  He  asked why                                                                  
only urban Alaska would benefit from the bill.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire  intended that  today's  meeting be  a                                                                  
"work  session".   Originally,  the  language  was broader  to                                                                  
reflect  the reality  existing in  Alaska.   Things like  this                                                                  
exist on in  rural and urban areas.   The problem is  that the                                                                  
Department  of Revenue has  testified that  the bill  would be                                                                  
the  largest change  in  gaming regulations  since  pull-tabs.                                                                  
She  indicated  her frustration.    She  pointed out  that  an                                                                  
Alaskan  Native Corporation  that  provides  pools to  benefit                                                                  
scholarships brought the original bill forward.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire stated  that she did  not want  to get                                                                  
into  a  situation   in  which  she  was  at   odds  with  the                                                                  
Department of Revenue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:40:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer pointed  out that  that  the Legislature  does                                                                  
not want to visit  the gaming statute each time  a new game of                                                                  
chance comes forward.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative    Hawker   shared   Representative    Foster's                                                                  
concerns.    He   thought  that  the  bill  could   legitimize                                                                  
activities  in the  State.   He thought  that the  legislation                                                                  
could legitimize  various  contests of  chance statewide.   He                                                                  
did not arrive  at the same implications as the  Department of                                                                  
Revenue.    Representative  Hawker   questioned  likening  the                                                                  
legislation to  pull-tabs.  He reiterated that  he did not see                                                                  
the  Calcutta  pools in  the  same  light  as pull-tabs.    He                                                                  
endorsed the sentiment  of Representative Foster  and asked to                                                                  
continue dialogue.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire asked to  get testimony on  the record                                                                  
to  that  effect.   She  added  that there  is  an  incredible                                                                  
amount of latitude  that the Department of Revenue  could have                                                                  
establishing regulations regarding charitable bowls.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:44:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker noted  that in the  context of  the law                                                                  
as a  whole, the legislation  would not  allow just anyone  to                                                                  
execute a  Calcutta pool.   Representative McGuire  agreed and                                                                  
said that any type  of gaming done for charity  would continue                                                                  
that  spirit.   Regarding who  would put  together a  Calcutta                                                                  
pool, a  list of  those people  would be  made.  She  stressed                                                                  
that  for  the  regulations,  it would  not  be  a  commercial                                                                  
enterprise  but  would  instead  be  for  charitable  reasons.                                                                  
Page  2, Line  9,  notes that  the  Department  "may" issue  a                                                                  
permit  to the  municipality, etc.   That  portion of  Statute                                                                  
defines  the only  boundaries  and the  Department of  Revenue                                                                  
has established some "wild scenarios".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:47:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft asked if a qualified organization  would                                                                  
have to  be a  non-profit.   He referenced  the definition  in                                                                  
Section  9; currently,  it would  be a sporting  event in  the                                                                  
State.  Representative  McGuire replied that it  would have to                                                                  
be in the  State and the idea  considered was that  the person                                                                  
organizing  it would  have to be  a participant.   On Page  3,                                                                  
Section  8, elementary,  secondary, or  post secondary  school                                                                  
sporting events would be excluded.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:48:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft wanted  it to  be clear  each time  what                                                                  
was authorized,  making sure  that there  was a cost  benefit.                                                                  
Representative  McGuire replied that the original  request was                                                                  
from the Seri Native  Corporation golf classic  and they offer                                                                  
for scholarships.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire  pointed  out that  Page  2, Line  14,                                                                  
does reference  dog-mushing  contests.  As  long as the  goals                                                                  
are charitable  and the activities  are in State, it  would be                                                                  
okay.     She  pointed   out  Section   8  exclusion   of  the                                                                  
elementary, secondary and postsecondary events.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:51:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft questioned why it was considered  a game                                                                  
of chance rather than a game of skill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
LARRY   MEYERS,   (TESTIFIED   VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   DEPUTY                                                                  
DIRECTOR,  TAX  DIVISION, DEPARTMENT  OF  REVENUE,  ANCHORAGE,                                                                  
explained  that the term  "game of  chance" is  a term  of art                                                                  
that is used to  describe almost every event.   The term "game                                                                  
of skill" is defined in Statute.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:52:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze commented  that in  the 1980's, the  pull-                                                                  
tab issue  was a very small enterprise  in the State.   It has                                                                  
become over  a $300 million  dollar industry.   He thought  it                                                                  
would be important  to keep a handle on the activities;  there                                                                  
are scopes  of gaming  that people are  comfortable with.   As                                                                  
public  policy, he  did  not know  what Calcutta  pools  would                                                                  
encompass  and  thought  that   the  legislation  would  be  a                                                                  
"policy" start to begin the discussion.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:55:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Stoltze  pointed   out  the  Attorney   General's                                                                  
report,  which  disallows these  activities.    Representative                                                                  
McGuire offered follow up on that information.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:55:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker added  that if the  law was passed  and                                                                  
there  were  abuses  found,  and then  the  State  could  pass                                                                  
another law  to address the concerns.   He recommended  erring                                                                  
on the side of supporting the non-profit organizations.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire stated that a wager or  bid would have                                                                  
to  occur  in an  auction.    Co-Chair  Meyer  requested  that                                                                  
discussion be addressed toward Amendment #2.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer MAINTAINED  his  OBJECTION  to the  amendment.                                                                  
Representative  McGuire  recommended  that the  discretion  of                                                                  
the  Committee play  out and  added  that it  was okay  either                                                                  
way.   It  must remain  in  State, while  being  a contest  of                                                                  
skill and additionally,  it must be a non-profit  organization                                                                  
doing it.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly noted  that  he favored  a title  change                                                                  
and did not think it should be limited.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:00:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  WITHDREW Amendment  #2.    Representative                                                                  
McGuire  recommended  a conceptual  amendment  to tighten  the                                                                  
title, being more reflective of the charitable goals.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:01:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly MOVED a conceptual amendment  to tighten                                                                  
the title, stating  to "authorize golf events  as the Calcutta                                                                  
pools  as  a charitable  game  of  chance".    Co-Chair  Meyer                                                                  
OBJECTED  for  discussion  purposes.    Representative  Hawker                                                                  
asked if Representative Kelly intended to include golfing.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly replied  that he did  not.  He  restated                                                                  
the  intended  conceptual  amendment:  "Authorizing   Calcutta                                                                  
pools  as  a charitable  game  of  chance".    Co-Chair  Meyer                                                                  
OBJECTED.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  pointed  out that  the  title would  be                                                                  
changed.    Co-Chair  Meyer WITHDREW  his  OBJECTION.    There                                                                  
being  NO further  OBJECTION,  the  conceptual  amendment  was                                                                  
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:03:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
Co-Chair  Chenault voiced  support  for the  legislation.   He                                                                  
pointed out that  most of the situations are for  a good cause                                                                  
and that the intent is to help children.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                              
Vice-Chair  Stoltze commented  that he  wanted a product  that                                                                  
serves the State while helping the charitable events.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative   McGuire  advised   that  she  would   not  be                                                                  
"hostile" to anything that would help to tighten HB 61.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair   Stoltze  MOVED  to   ADOPT  Amendment   #1,  #24-                                                                  
LS0281\G.1, Luckhaupt,  3/16/05.  Co-Chair Meyer  OBJECTED for                                                                  
discussion purposes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  stated that  the amendment  would  change                                                                  
the  title of  the bill  and that  it would  benefit a  public                                                                  
radio station in Talkeetna.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Chenault asked  if the animal  classics would  cover                                                                  
concerns  in Amendment  #1 and  if it should  be a  Department                                                                  
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Meyer responded  that  the history  of  each classic  has                                                                  
been added  by specific  name and  would need  to be added  in                                                                  
that format.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:09:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft pointed out that the only  definition of                                                                  
animal classics was defined in AS 05.15.692.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   McGuire  suggested   on  Page  2,   Line  13,                                                                  
deleting  "bird  classics"  and  inserting  "goose  classics",                                                                  
broadening  the category.   Vice-Chair  Stoltze cautioned  the                                                                  
way  in which  that language  is being  handled.   He  thought                                                                  
that cock fighting could result.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer noted  that he  did not  want to  spend a  lot                                                                  
more time on the amendment.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SUZANNE   CUNNINGHAM,  STAFF,   REPRESENTATIVE  KEVIN   MEYER,                                                                  
addressed  AS 05.15.180, limitations  on authorized  activity.                                                                  
With  the  exception  of raffles,  lotteries,  pull  tabs  and                                                                  
numerous  other items,  activities may  not be licensed  under                                                                  
                                                      st                                                                        
that chapter unless  it was licensed before January  1,  1959.                                                                  
She referenced  a bill presented by Vice Chair  Stoltze, which                                                                  
              rd                                                                                                                
passed the  23  Legislature,  and added  a sentence  replacing                                                                  
                           st                                                                                                   
the timeline to November 1, 2002.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Cunningham  advised  that   she  had  spoken  with  Legal                                                                  
Services  about  incorporating  all the  bird  classics  under                                                                  
animal  classics  but  because  of  the  time  perimeters,  it                                                                  
cannot be done.  The Kenai Goose Classic is already listed.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Kelly  referenced  Page  2,  Section  4©,  and                                                                  
asked about  the Calcutta  pool.   Co-Chair Meyer  recommended                                                                  
that questions now only be directed to the amendment.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm recommended  language  of migratory  bird                                                                  
classics.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:14:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer indicated  concern with the  way the bill  was                                                                  
moving.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer MAINTAINED his OBJECTION to Amendment #1.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:15:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was taken on the motion.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:       Croft, Foster, Kelly, Moses, Stoltze                                                                            
OPPOSED:        Hawker, Holm, Meyer                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyrauch,  Representative  Joule and  Co-Chair                                                                  
Chenault were not present for the vote.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The MOTION PASSED (5-3).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
RECESS:         3:16:49 PM                                                                                                    
RECONVENE:      3:17:46 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:17:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer  pointed  out  that passage  of  Amendment  #1                                                                  
would change the  title.  He gave his permission  to the legal                                                                  
drafters  to  make  the  necessary  changes.    Representative                                                                  
Croft advised that  the intent was to make the  title as tight                                                                  
as possible.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                              
Representative  Foster MOVED to report  CS HB 61 (FIN)  out of                                                                  
Committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                  
accompanying  fiscal note.  There  being NO OBJECTION,  it was                                                                  
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS  HB 61  (FIN) was  reported  out of  Committee  with a  "no                                                                  
recommendation"   and  with  indeterminate  note   #1  by  the                                                                  
Department of Revenue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:19:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 88                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     An  Act relating  to certain  weapons offenses  involving                                                                  
     minors;   to  aggravating   factors  in  sentencing   for                                                                  
     certain  offenses committed  against  a school  employee;                                                                  
     and providing for an effective date.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Foster  MOVED  to   ADOPT  work  draft   #24-                                                                  
GH1096\Y,  Luckhaupt,  3/17/05,  as the  version  of the  bill                                                                  
before  the  Committee.   There  being  NO OBJECTION,  it  was                                                                  
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:19:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RANDY   RUARO,   ASSISTANT   ATTORNEY   GENERAL,   LEGISLATION                                                                  
REGULATION,  DEPARTMENT   OF  LAW,  explained   the  committee                                                                  
substitute.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   ·    It provides for an aggravator in Section 3 in cases                                                                     
        where assaults have occurred on school grounds,                                                                         
        school buses or school sponsored events.                                                                                
   ·    Section 4, a new section, closes a loophole in                                                                          
        response to a judicial opinion that found that a                                                                        
        defendant could claim credit on repeated sentencing.                                                                    
   ·    Section 5 provides for an automatic waiver for 16 &                                                                     
        17 year-olds who  are charged or convicted  in certain                                                                  
        Class  A &  B  felonies  misconduct  weapon  offenses.                                                                  
        The  House  Judiciary  Committee   did  much  work  on                                                                  
        Sections 3 & 5, and made those changes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  asked  about  Section  5.    Mr.  Ruaro                                                                  
thought  that  Representative  Croft  was  referring  back  to                                                                  
Section 1 of the  original bill, which does not  relate to the                                                                  
mitigating section.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft noted the categories that  automatically                                                                  
waive juveniles  back to adult  court.  He wondered  the types                                                                  
of weapon  infractions that would  automatically be  waived to                                                                  
adult  court.    Mr.  Ruaro  explained   the  weapon  offenses                                                                  
automatically waived  would be listed under AS  11.61.190.  He                                                                  
noted the  change made by the  House Judiciary Committee,  the                                                                  
risk  of  physical  injury  to  a person.    The  other  class                                                                  
indicates  if a gun  is possessed  during a  drug deal  and/or                                                                  
possessing a  gun on school grounds  or near a day  care after                                                                  
being  convicted   of   a  felony  or   being  adjudicated   a                                                                  
delinquent minor.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:25:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  noted concern  about  constituents  who                                                                  
"carry"  weapons  for  defensive  purposes  and then  pick  up                                                                  
their children from schools.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer asked  if all  fiscal  notes were  zero.   Mr.                                                                  
Ruaro replied they were.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  referred  to  Section  2  and  asked  how                                                                  
important the survey  is to the Department of  Health & Social                                                                  
Services  to  the  bill.    Mr.  Ruaro  responded  it  is  not                                                                  
critical.   The  Senate  Judiciary  Committee  did amend  that                                                                  
portion out of the bill.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  asked if the same bill had been  introduced on                                                                  
the Senate side.   Mr. Ruaro replied that it had.   Vice Chair                                                                  
Stoltze  noted  that at  the  time amendments  are  taken,  he                                                                  
would propose one to delete Section 2.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:27:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  asked  about Section  5,  minors  being                                                                  
waived to  adult court.  He  asked if delinquency  rules would                                                                  
apply.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ANTHONY  NEWMAN,   PROGRAM  OFFICER,   DIVISION  OF   JUVENILE                                                                  
JUSTICE,  DEPARTMENT OF  HEALTH AND  SOCIAL SERVICES,  replied                                                                  
that they  would apply.   Representative  Croft continued  his                                                                  
line of  questioning regarding  misconduct  of weapons  in the                                                                  
second degree,  indicating  that it is  problematic.   He gave                                                                  
an example  of a child tried as  an adult.  He asked  about AS                                                                  
11.61.195, the lower degree of weapon defense.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Ruaro  explained   that  Section  195  offenses   involve                                                                  
possessing a gun  during a drug offense.  He stated  that is a                                                                  
serious enough  crime to  be subject  to an automatic  waiver.                                                                  
When possessing  a weapon near  a school or daycare,  everyone                                                                  
                                                     rd                                                                         
knows that guns  and schools do not mix well.   The 3  example                                                                  
mainly addresses  the drive-by  shooting offenses.   The judge                                                                  
would again have the discretion.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze  MOVED  to adopt  Amendment  #1,  deleting                                                                  
Section 2.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch asked about the fiscal  note and the                                                                  
additional  work required  for  the Public  Defenders  office.                                                                  
Mr.  Ruaro anticipated  a low  number  of cases.   Mr.  Newman                                                                  
related  that  in the  past  two  years,  there have  been  16                                                                  
youths that would  have fallen under the auto-waiver  statute.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  asked about  the  costs of  housing                                                                  
juveniles  without  including  a  fiscal  note.    Mr.  Newman                                                                  
explained that  of the 16 youths, 10 had been  adjudicated and                                                                  
5 were given institutional  orders.  Representative  Weyhrauch                                                                  
reiterated his concern with the zero note.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:34:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Weyhrauch  addressed the  schoolyard  bullying                                                                  
issue.    Mr.  Ruaro  opined  that  HB  88  would  not  be  an                                                                  
appropriate  vehicle to address  bullying, recommending  other                                                                  
options.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft MOVED  to ADOPT  Amendment #2,  deleting                                                                  
Line 30, Page 3, second degree weapon defenses.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair    Meyer   OBJECTED    for    discussion    purposes.                                                                  
Representative   Croft  explained   that  those  are   serious                                                                  
offenses in  which youth are  automatically waived out  of the                                                                  
juvenile court.  He voiced his concerns.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Stoltze provided a  personal experience at  a high                                                                  
school  and  asked  if  the  situation  would  be  treated  as                                                                  
possession.    Representative  Croft  read  from  statute  and                                                                  
noted that it would be treated as possession.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:40:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm shared  a personal  experience and  asked                                                                  
if a  hunting situation  could be waived  to an adult  status.                                                                  
Mr.  Ruaro  asked  if  Representative   Holm  was  referencing                                                                  
Subsection 3.   Mr. Newman said  that the bill addresses  when                                                                  
firearms discharge  under circumstances involving  substantial                                                                  
risk   and   are  discharged   from   a   propelled   vehicle.                                                                  
Representative  Croft  clarified   that  a  propelled  vehicle                                                                  
could  be anything  moving such  as a  car, boat,  snowmobile,                                                                  
etc.   He asked  if the  behaviors should  be indicated  under                                                                  
the automatic waivers section.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Holm talked about grouse hunting  and shooting                                                                  
from vehicles  and such  a person being  remanded to  an adult                                                                  
status.    He   agreed  with  Representative   Croft  that  is                                                                  
important  to be careful,  and  that minors  often do not  use                                                                  
good judgment.   Mr. Ruaro agreed  that it is important  to be                                                                  
careful, however, prosecutors must use discretion.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:44:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer suggested that more time be given to develop                                                                     
a new committee substitute for HB 88.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft WITHDREW Amendment #2.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 88 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:46 P.M.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects