Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/13/1999 05:50 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
GENERAL SUBJECT(S): HB 231 And HB 232                                                                                           
    STATEWIDE TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The following overview was taken in log note format.  Tapes and                                                                 
handouts will be on file with the House Finance Committee through the                                                           
21st Legislative Session, contact 465-2156. After the 21st Legislative                                                          
Session they will be available through the Legislative Library at 465-                                                          
3808.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Time Meeting Convened:  5:50 P.M.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE  HFC 99 - 136, Side 1.                                                                                                     
HFC 99 - 136, Side 2                                                                                                            
HFC 99 - 137,  Side 1.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT:                                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative G. Davis                                                                                                         
X                                                                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault                                                                                                             
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Foster                                                                                                           
X                                                                                                                               
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf                                                                                                      
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Austerman                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Kohring                                                                                                          
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Bunde                                                                                                            
X                                                                                                                               
Representative  Moses                                                                                                           
X                                                                                                                               
Representative J. Davies                                                                                                        
X                                                                                                                               
Representative Williams                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT:                                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE SHARON CISSNA; REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS; SPEAKER                                                             
BRIAN PORTER; BOB MIKOL, FAIRBANKS.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE:                                                                                                   
ANN LOHREY, ANCHORAGE; MARK FISH, ANCHORAGE; RANDY RUEDNICH,                                                                    
ANCHORAGE; JAMES CRARY, ANCHORAGE; ERIC WOHLFORTH, ANCHORAGE; REX                                                               
SHATTUCK, ANCHORAGE; SCOTT THORSON, ANCHORAGE; APRIL GHALAMI,                                                                   
DILLINGHAM; ERYNN BOTTLER, DILLINGHAM; RITA LEAKE, FAIRBANKS; JOHN                                                              
FIELDS, FAIRBANKS; CARL BENSON, FAIRBANKS; KATHY DIETRICH,                                                                      
FAIRBANKS; ED MARTIN, KENAI; EARL COPELAND, KENAI; HARRIET MORAVEC,                                                             
KENAI; ROBERTA SUTLEY, KENAI; BAB REILLY, KENAI; PAT REILLY, KENAI;                                                             
ANNE GENTRY, KENAI; WILL JOSEY, KENAI; GERALD BOWEN, KENAI; GARVAN                                                              
BUCARIA, MATSU; ART KOHANNES, MATSU.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
LOG                                                                                                                             
SPEAKER                                                                                                                         
DISCUSSION                                                                                                                      
000                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Convened the House Finance Committee                                                                                            
meeting at 5:50 P.M. to take public                                                                                             
testimony on HB 231 & HB 232.                                                                                                   
154                                                                                                                             
ANNA LOHREY,                                                                                                                    
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Spoke in support of HB 231.  She spoke                                                                                          
against taking the permanent fund                                                                                               
dividend.  The dividend cap is the best                                                                                         
decision.                                                                                                                       
365                                                                                                                             
MARK FISH,                                                                                                                      
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Spoke in opposition of the proposed                                                                                             
legislation.  The people created the                                                                                            
PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND, and is an                                                                                              
investment that belongs to the citizens                                                                                         
and not the government.  He stated that                                                                                         
there is no needed urgency.  A vote of the                                                                                      
people is required.                                                                                                             
556                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Stated that ballot measure was a                                                                                                
constitutional amendment put forth by the                                                                                       
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
605                                                                                                                             
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Clarified that was not intended to be any                                                                                       
more than a fund.                                                                                                               
630                                                                                                                             
RANDY RUEDNICH,                                                                                                                 
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Spoke in favor of the effort being done in                                                                                      
regard to the proposed legislation.  The                                                                                        
problem is very real and things have                                                                                            
changed.  This type of concept should be                                                                                        
taken forward in an advisory vote context.                                                                                      
All Alaskans will need to contribute or                                                                                         
there will be another fiscal gap.                                                                                               
Encouraged moving forward with the                                                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
780                                                                                                                             
ERIC WOHLFORTH,                                                                                                                 
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Spoke to the change in the bill based on                                                                                        
the pay off.  By law the distributable                                                                                          
income of the fund is actual income and is                                                                                      
not longer appropriate to a modern                                                                                              
endowment fund.  This would put the                                                                                             
PPERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND with the needs of                                                                                      
the State.  Voiced support with the                                                                                             
legislation which is an improvement to the                                                                                      
statutory scheme.                                                                                                               
1004                                                                                                                            
Representative J.                                                                                                               
Davies                                                                                                                          
Asked for comments regarding the payout                                                                                         
rate.                                                                                                                           
1026                                                                                                                            
Mr. Wohlforth                                                                                                                   
Did not want to comment on that topic.                                                                                          
1041                                                                                                                            
JAMES CRARY,                                                                                                                    
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Asked that the increase should be made to                                                                                       
the excise tax on alcohol rather than                                                                                           
taking the permanent fund dividend from                                                                                         
the Alaskan people.  He spoke to the                                                                                            
damage done by alcohol abuse and fetal                                                                                          
alcohol syndrome. Pleaded to increase that                                                                                      
tax by $.25 per drink which would bring in                                                                                      
$55 million dollars to the State.  No new                                                                                       
employees would need to be hired.  The                                                                                          
impact would be dramatic.                                                                                                       
1281                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Asked if the Legislature increased this,                                                                                        
would he support the legislation?                                                                                               
1299                                                                                                                            
Mr. Crary                                                                                                                       
Replied that he would voice support with                                                                                        
that tax.  He was aware of the work being                                                                                       
done on this initiative.  The State needs                                                                                       
to go after alcohol.   No where is alcohol                                                                                      
paying its fair share.                                                                                                          
1364                                                                                                                            
APRIL GHALAMI,                                                                                                                  
DILLINGHAM                                                                                                                      
Spoke in support of an alcohol tax.                                                                                             
Additionally, she stated that there are                                                                                         
many families that are dependent on the                                                                                         
permanent fund dividend.  The costs to                                                                                          
live in the village area are very high.                                                                                         
To take that money would be devastating.                                                                                        
1467                                                                                                                            
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Asked how to address the fiscal problem.                                                                                        
1480                                                                                                                            
Ms. Ghalami                                                                                                                     
Responded that the best way would be to                                                                                         
restore services to those people in the                                                                                         
education system.  By limiting educational                                                                                      
resources is in the long run not a good                                                                                         
measure.  Long term wisdom is to invest in                                                                                      
education and support knowledgeable                                                                                             
citizens in our children.                                                                                                       
1635                                                                                                                            
ERYNN BOTTLER,                                                                                                                  
DILLINGHAM                                                                                                                      
Spoke in opposition to the proposed                                                                                             
legislation as an upcoming college                                                                                              
student.  She spoke to the difference that                                                                                      
the permanent fund dividend would make to                                                                                       
her as a student.                                                                                                               
1708                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Asked if there was enough money put into                                                                                        
colleges in Alaska.                                                                                                             
1710                                                                                                                            
Ms. Bottler                                                                                                                     
Replied yes.                                                                                                                    
1733                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Noted that somewhere the state will have                                                                                        
to cut the costs.  Should the people                                                                                            
receive the permanent fund dividend or                                                                                          
fund the university system.                                                                                                     
1763                                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE                                                                                                                  
GAIL PHILLIPS                                                                                                                   
Asked if she would be working this school                                                                                       
year.                                                                                                                           
1781                                                                                                                            
Ms. Bottler                                                                                                                     
Hoped that she would not need to work.                                                                                          
1792                                                                                                                            
R. Phillips                                                                                                                     
Spoke to the proposed income tax to meet a                                                                                      
portion of the fiscal gap.  She questioned                                                                                      
which would cause the least impact.                                                                                             
1820                                                                                                                            
RITA LEAKE,                                                                                                                     
FAIRBANKS                                                                                                                       
Spoke about land use.  She agreed that the                                                                                      
state needs to consider long-term use and                                                                                       
suggested that people have the ability to                                                                                       
own land.  Ms. Leake pointed out that less                                                                                      
than 1% of the land is privately owned.                                                                                         
She proposed that the state provide more                                                                                        
land for private ownership.                                                                                                     
1962                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Agreed that land resources should be held                                                                                       
in private hands.  A lot of the acreage                                                                                         
that the State owns is far off the road                                                                                         
system and who would pay for those                                                                                              
services.                                                                                                                       
1995                                                                                                                            
Ms. Leake                                                                                                                       
Spoke to homesteading.  She spoke to small                                                                                      
business and the difference that the oil                                                                                        
and industry companies get in relationship                                                                                      
to what the individual person receives.                                                                                         
She reiterated that many people really                                                                                          
need to get their permanent fund dividend.                                                                                      
2100                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
If the legislature does nothing the                                                                                             
permanent fund dividend will go away.                                                                                           
2116                                                                                                                            
JOHN FIELDS,                                                                                                                    
FAIRBANKS                                                                                                                       
Spoke against the capping of the permanent                                                                                      
fund dividend.                                                                                                                  
2134                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
All plans still call for additional cuts.                                                                                       
2161                                                                                                                            
CARL BENSON,                                                                                                                    
FAIRBANKS                                                                                                                       
Spoke to the merging the Constitutional                                                                                         
Budget Reserve and the earnings reserve                                                                                         
account.  He added that the State does                                                                                          
need an upper limit to the permanent fund                                                                                       
dividend.  If the dividend is cut and not                                                                                       
impose an income tax, it would be unfair.                                                                                       
A graduating income tax would be the                                                                                            
fairest move to make.  The current system                                                                                       
has been a free loading system.  The state                                                                                      
is attracting a lot of dependent people to                                                                                      
receive the goodies.  He reiterated that a                                                                                      
State income tax would be the best move to                                                                                      
make.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE CHANGE                                                                                                                     
HFC 99-136, SIDE 2.                                                                                                             
009                                                                                                                             
ED MARTIN, KENAI                                                                                                                
People do not want the dividend touched in                                                                                      
any way.  SB 172 is the answer to the                                                                                           
question.  It should require a vote in the                                                                                      
next general election.  Lower the standard                                                                                      
of living should not be the goal.  He                                                                                           
rejected the Alaska Plan as the answer.                                                                                         
The current system is spending over $10                                                                                         
thousand dollars per person in the State.                                                                                       
The State needs better management.                                                                                              
285                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Noted all the things that are available to                                                                                      
state residents by paying the $10 thousand                                                                                      
dollars per year.                                                                                                               
326                                                                                                                             
Mr. Martin                                                                                                                      
Maintained that too much money is going to                                                                                      
government and away from people.                                                                                                
375                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Explained that of $10,000 per person 20                                                                                         
percent goes to inflation proofing and                                                                                          
dividends.                                                                                                                      
428                                                                                                                             
Mr. Martin                                                                                                                      
Reiterated that government costs too much.                                                                                      
He added that the percentage should be                                                                                          
brought down.                                                                                                                   
521                                                                                                                             
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Observed that the state has provided a lot                                                                                      
of opportunities. He questioned if the                                                                                          
speaker recognized that there is a $1                                                                                           
billion dollar gap.                                                                                                             
603                                                                                                                             
Mr. Martin                                                                                                                      
Asserted that government can be run                                                                                             
cheaper.                                                                                                                        
620                                                                                                                             
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Pointed out that the managers of the                                                                                            
permanent fund have given good advice. The                                                                                      
managers are recommending that some needs                                                                                       
to be done.                                                                                                                     
673                                                                                                                             
Representative G.                                                                                                               
Davis                                                                                                                           
Observed that the petition drive has                                                                                            
generated discussion.                                                                                                           
698                                                                                                                             
EARL COPELAND,                                                                                                                  
KENAI                                                                                                                           
Testified via teleconference. He                                                                                                
maintained that government has lost touch                                                                                       
and that government is overreaching. He                                                                                         
stated that there should be a vote of the                                                                                       
public.                                                                                                                         
878                                                                                                                             
Representative                                                                                                                  
Austerman                                                                                                                       
Noted that speakers are recommending a                                                                                          
vote of the people. He emphasized that                                                                                          
there has to be something on the table to                                                                                       
vote on.                                                                                                                        
912                                                                                                                             
Mr. Copeland                                                                                                                    
Stated that voters should receive various                                                                                       
options.                                                                                                                        
952                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Clarified that the legislature did not                                                                                          
vote a pay raise. The per diem rate is                                                                                          
tied to the federal rate. The rate goes up                                                                                      
and down. He emphasized that the size and                                                                                       
scope of government has gone down over the                                                                                      
last years.                                                                                                                     
1043                                                                                                                            
HARRIET MORAVEC,                                                                                                                
KENAI                                                                                                                           
Spoke against HB 231 and HB 232. She                                                                                            
maintain that consultants should be                                                                                             
reduced. She questioned why the state                                                                                           
cannot run its own oil company and keep                                                                                         
all the revenues for the state and its                                                                                          
people.                                                                                                                         
1114                                                                                                                            
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Stressed that their state believes in free                                                                                      
enterprise.                                                                                                                     
1139                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Explained that the state reviewed state                                                                                         
ownership of an oil company. He observed                                                                                        
that the state may play a role in                                                                                               
ownership of a gas pipeline. He maintained                                                                                      
that government should not own and operate                                                                                      
business enterprises. He pointed out that                                                                                       
the citizens did not support a state owned                                                                                      
oil company.                                                                                                                    
1224                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Pointed out that it would take a huge                                                                                           
state investment for a state owned oil or                                                                                       
gas. She noted that funding would have to                                                                                       
come from the permanent fund.                                                                                                   
1272                                                                                                                            
BOB REILLY, KENAI                                                                                                               
Spoke against reductions to permanent fund                                                                                      
dividend. He recommended further public                                                                                         
input and a vote.                                                                                                               
1359                                                                                                                            
ANNE GENTRY, KENAI                                                                                                              
Stated that she agrees with some of the                                                                                         
Healthy Alaska Plan. She observed that the                                                                                      
permanent fund dividend checks pay                                                                                              
Alaskans more than Alaskans pay for taxes.                                                                                      
She felt that the Healthy Alaska Plan is                                                                                        
workable.                                                                                                                       
1432                                                                                                                            
WILL JOSEY, KENAI                                                                                                               
Noted that the state of Florida meets for                                                                                       
60 days every other year. He suggested                                                                                          
that there should be only one-school                                                                                            
superintendents, operating in a military                                                                                        
fashion. He spoke in support of more                                                                                            
roads. He maintained that all of the oil                                                                                        
revenue belongs to the people. He stated                                                                                        
that the permanent fund should not be                                                                                           
touched.                                                                                                                        
1572                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Pointed out that the state of Florida                                                                                           
utilizes county governments that                                                                                                
administer policy, court and jail powers.                                                                                       
He noted that the state of Alaska has                                                                                           
areas that do not have any local                                                                                                
government.                                                                                                                     
1629                                                                                                                            
Representative                                                                                                                  
Grussendorf                                                                                                                     
Stated that he would like to meet every                                                                                         
other year, but noted that the state's                                                                                          
flow of revenue is volatile.                                                                                                    
1685                                                                                                                            
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Noted that other states do a lot of their                                                                                       
committee work when they are not in                                                                                             
session. He emphasized that this reduces                                                                                        
public input. He added that there each                                                                                          
school districts wants its own                                                                                                  
superintendent to represents its needs. He                                                                                      
stressed that the needs of the people of                                                                                        
Alaska have diverse needs.                                                                                                      
1754                                                                                                                            
Mr. Josey                                                                                                                       
Stated that there is nothing to prevent                                                                                         
the legislature setting a budget based on                                                                                       
$12 dollars a barrel of oil. He stated                                                                                          
that one person can know everything that                                                                                        
is going on in the state.                                                                                                       
1825                                                                                                                            
GERALD BOWEN,                                                                                                                   
KENAI                                                                                                                           
Spoke against HB 231 and HB 232. He added                                                                                       
that upper level management should be                                                                                           
reduced.                                                                                                                        
1888                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
Pointed out that the legislature is                                                                                             
working to consolidate government and                                                                                           
reduce management costs.                                                                                                        
1905                                                                                                                            
BOB MIKOL,                                                                                                                      
FAIRBANKS                                                                                                                       
Stated that the earnings reserve should                                                                                         
not be tapped. He spoke in support of an                                                                                        
income tax. He felt that the income tax                                                                                         
would be fairer. He suggested a vote on                                                                                         
either an income tax or a cap on the                                                                                            
dividend.                                                                                                                       
1975                                                                                                                            
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Observed that the income tax would                                                                                              
generate $350 million dollars. The annuity                                                                                      
plan would generate $1.8 billion dollars.                                                                                       
2011                                                                                                                            
Mr. Mikol                                                                                                                       
Recognized the need to work for the                                                                                             
future. He proposes the income tax first                                                                                        
so that everyone shares the pain.                                                                                               
2067                                                                                                                            
Vice-Chair Bunde                                                                                                                
Felt that an income tax would hit the                                                                                           
middle class the most. He maintained that                                                                                       
the Healthy Alaska Plan would ask everyone                                                                                      
to contribute.                                                                                                                  
2093                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Asked if it is clear that the permanent                                                                                         
fund dividend would crash if nothing is                                                                                         
done.                                                                                                                           
2104                                                                                                                            
Mr. Mikol                                                                                                                       
Replied that it is clear that the                                                                                               
permanent fund dividend would be                                                                                                
jeopardized. He acknowledged that                                                                                               
something must be done. He maintained that                                                                                      
some Alaskans would be more comfortable to                                                                                      
see their permanent fund dividend go down                                                                                       
from market forces.                                                                                                             
2140                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
Emphasized that Alaska's oil wealth belong                                                                                      
to all Alaskans, future and present. He                                                                                         
stressed that today's generation could                                                                                          
receive higher dividends at the expense of                                                                                      
the future.                                                                                                                     
2178                                                                                                                            
GARVAN BUCARIA,                                                                                                                 
MATSU                                                                                                                           
Spoke in opposition to the Healthy Alaska                                                                                       
Plan. He stated that a state income tax                                                                                         
would be a fair opportunity. He stated                                                                                          
that there should be a price of admission                                                                                       
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE CHANGE                                                                                                                     
HFC 99 - 137, Side 1                                                                                                            
167                                                                                                                             
ART KOHANNES,                                                                                                                   
MATSU                                                                                                                           
Spoke against changes to the permanent                                                                                          
fund dividend.  He pointed out that there                                                                                       
is a lot of money floating through the                                                                                          
State of Alaska.  There are many citizens                                                                                       
that are living on a very low income.  He                                                                                       
asked Committee members to consider these                                                                                       
conditions.                                                                                                                     
366                                                                                                                             
Representative                                                                                                                  
Phillips                                                                                                                        
Asked what contract the Legislature is                                                                                          
violating.                                                                                                                      
40                                                                                                                              
Mr. Kohannes                                                                                                                    
Asked if the government worked on a checks                                                                                      
and balances system. He did not see this                                                                                        
working in this state.  The government is                                                                                       
not in true check.                                                                                                              
464                                                                                                                             
REX SHATTUCK,                                                                                                                   
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Stated that many veterans of the U.S. want                                                                                      
the Legislature to reduce the state                                                                                             
spending while extending services.  Should                                                                                      
not be learned into the philosophies of                                                                                         
the `80's.  He spoke to close the fiscal                                                                                        
gap in 5 years.  He asked why the State is                                                                                      
in a budget crisis.promises made, promises                                                                                      
kept.  General funds have been increased                                                                                        
and there have been over 400 new positions                                                                                      
statewide.  71% of the people of the State                                                                                      
do not want the earnings of the permanent                                                                                       
fund dividend spent.  He urged the                                                                                              
legislation to put the decision on the                                                                                          
ballot.                                                                                                                         
793                                                                                                                             
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
There has been major changes made to                                                                                            
government but did not anticipate the                                                                                           
decline in oil funds.  There is $800                                                                                            
million dollar deficit for next year.                                                                                           
This body must take action soon or the                                                                                          
entire permanent fund dividend will be in                                                                                       
jeopardy.                                                                                                                       
875                                                                                                                             
Mr. Shattuck                                                                                                                    
Agreed that the cost of expenditures have                                                                                       
increased from other than general fund                                                                                          
monies.  There has been an increase too                                                                                         
much spending.  He noted that he would                                                                                          
provide individual names from each                                                                                              
district.                                                                                                                       
955                                                                                                                             
SCOTT THORSON,                                                                                                                  
ANCHORAGE                                                                                                                       
Need to reduce the size of government.                                                                                          
Need to reduce the cost of government.                                                                                          
Should there be vote to access the                                                                                              
permanent fund dividend earnings.  He                                                                                           
believed that the dividends should be                                                                                           
used.  20% of the dividend goes away in                                                                                         
the federal income tax and is not staying                                                                                       
in State.                                                                                                                       
1127                                                                                                                            
KATHY DIETRICK,                                                                                                                 
FAIRBANKS                                                                                                                       
Agreed that the permanent fund dividend is                                                                                      
an entitlement.  However, capping the                                                                                           
permanent fund dividend without providing                                                                                       
an income tax would be fairer.  A plan                                                                                          
that does not see grow in government                                                                                            
services is not a viable plan.  Government                                                                                      
is the entity, which allows the State to                                                                                        
provide services that citizens can not                                                                                          
provide for themselves.  She stated that                                                                                        
she supported a combined force and that                                                                                         
there should be a common resolution of an                                                                                       
income tax and an earnings reserve tax.                                                                                         
1270                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair                                                                                                                        
Therriault                                                                                                                      
If the status quo is maintained and                                                                                             
dissolves, what should happen?                                                                                                  
1289                                                                                                                            
Ms. Dietrich                                                                                                                    
She acknowledged that people has become                                                                                         
dependent on it and agreed that it should                                                                                       
be capped and combined with an income tax                                                                                       
and excise tax.                                                                                                                 
1340                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
PUBLIC TESTIMONY WAS CONCLUDED.                                                                                                 
1395                                                                                                                            
Co-Chair Mulder                                                                                                                 
ADJOURNED:  7:45 p.m.                                                                                                           
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                                         
LOG NOTES                                                                                                                       
April 13, 1999                                                                                                                  
H.F.C. Page 8        5/13/99 p.n.                                                                                               

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