Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
02/16/2024 08:30 AM House SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
Note: the audio ![]()
and video ![]()
recordings are distinct records and are obtained from different sources. As such there may be key differences between the two. The audio recordings are captured by our records offices as the official record of the meeting and will have more accurate timestamps. Use the icons to switch between them.
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
FEBRUARY 16, 2024
8:30 AM
1. CALL THE MEETING
TO ORDER
At 8:32 AM, Chair Deb Fancher called to order the meeting of the
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics. Chair Fancher asked
Tamara Maddox to conduct roll call.
Members Present:
Senator David Wilson
Senator Löki Tobin
Representative Sara Hannan
Representative DeLena Johnson
Chair Deb Fancher
Skip Cook
Conner Thomas
Jerry McBeath
Others present in the room:
Jacqui Yeagle
Joyce Anderson
2. UPDATE ON COMMITTEE MEMBER NOMINEES
Chair Deb Fancher asked Tamara Maddox to update the committee on
the public member appointment process. Tamara Maddox stated that
on January 19, 2024, Chief Justice Maassen reappointed members
Skip Cook and Joyce Anderson. He also appointed a new alternate,
Rachel Kelly. The Senate ratified the appointments on January
24, 2024. Also on January 24, 2024, the Speaker of the House
moved the nominees to the House Judiciary Committee. The
judiciary committee is still in the vetting process and the
nominees will move out of the committee and to a vote,
hopefully, no later than February 23, 2024.
Tamara Maddox introduced alternate public member appointee,
Rachel Kelly. Tamara Maddox thanked her for attending the
meeting. Conner Thomas thanked Rachel Kelly for her
willingness to serve with the committee.
3. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA (+)
Representative Sara Hannan announced that she would like to
amend the agenda to allow her to speak for a moment about
Elizabeth Peratrovich Day. Chair Fancher agreed.
Representative Sara Hannan spoke about the inspiration of
Elizabeth Peratrovich had on this day (February 16) in 1945, in
passing the law making Alaska the first state to legislate
nondiscriminatory action. Representative DeLena Johnson
sponsored the bill that approved the Elizabeth Peratrovich coin.
Chair Fancher entertained a motion to approve the amended
agenda. Senator David Wilson so moved. Hearing no objection, the
motion passed.
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES (+)
Chair Fancher asked if there were questions or concerns
regarding the January 9, 2024, meeting minutes as presented.
Jerry McBeath moved to approve the meeting minutes as written.
Hearing no opposition, the motion passed. The January 9, 2024,
meeting minutes were approved.
5. PUBLIC COMMENT
Chair Deb Fancher invited members of the public to speak to the
committee.
Vince Guerra stated he is David Eastman's constituent in
Wasilla, Alaska. He spoke to register his support for
Representative Eastman. Vince Guerra stated Representative David
Eastman has been an amazing legislator, especially in helping
constituents break through the "cold wall" of government. Vince
Guerra asked that the committee take a look at "the man" and
understand the battles he has faced over the last several years:
he has been stripped of his staff, his committees, and the
ability to raise funds [to fight] the frivolous lawsuits he has
had to battle.
Patrick Martin from Wasilla stated that he thinks it is odd that
Mr. Eastman is being brought before the committee again. Patrick
Martin expressed surprise the committee meeting packet does not
contain information about the two complaints to be addressed
against Representative David Eastman. Patrick Martin noted
Representative David Eastman had waived confidentiality in the
complaints. Patrick Martin also addressed his discontent with
the inability of Representative David Eastman to raise funds to
pay his legal expenses for frivolous lawsuits.
Robert Taylor from Wasilla stated he is confused by an email
stating that the legislative ethics apparatus is prohibiting
[Representative David Eastman] from being able to defend himself
and generate the funds required for the lawfare being waged
against him and by proxy the people of Wasilla.
Betty Jo Moore from Anchorage also wanted to know why the public
were not given the complaint documents that state why
Representative Eastman is being called before the Ethics
Committee when he waived confidentiality. With those documents,
Betty Jo Moore posits she would be able to provide more detailed
testimony.
There was no other public comment.
6. ADVISORY OPINION
Chair Fancher said on December 13, 2023, Representative David
Eastman requested an advisory opinion from the committee
regarding gifts of legal services. Representative Eastman waived
confidentiality. When confidentiality is waived, the advisory
opinion can be heard in a public session.
Noah Klein, of Legislative Legal Services, stated that the draft
advisory opinion answers two questions submitted by
Representative Eastman. Both questions are related to gifts of
legal services. The first question is whether a direct payment
from the Alaska Anti-Law Affair Defense Fund to the legislator's
lawyer is a prohibited gift under AS 24.60.080. The second
question asks if the committee would recommend disciplinary
action if a payment described in the first question is made to
the legislator's lawyer without the legislator's consent.
Noah Klein summarized the draft advisory opinion. The committee
decided in Advisory Opinion 2023-01 that the exception in AS
24.60.080(c)(8) for a gift of legal services is limited to an
in-kind gift. The example described in Representative Eastman's
advisory opinion request about raising funds to pay a
legislator's legal fees after the fact would not be an in-kind
gift of legal services. What the committee has deemed an in-kind
gift of legal services would be a direct gift to the legislator
from a lawyer or from someone working with a lawyer. In regard
to the second question: What would happen if the legislator did
not know a gift was being made? A lawyer may not under the rules
of professional conduct accept payment from a third party on
behalf of a client without the client's approval. If a lawyer
tells a legislator they do not have to pay for the legal
services, the legislator has a duty to inquire as to why they do
not have to pay.
Chair Fancher entertained questions for Noah Klein.
Connor Thomas wanted to clarify the advisory opinion addresses
gifts of legislative concern.
Noah Klein stated that is correct. The exception is limited to a
matter of legislative concern because Advisory Opinion 23-01
specifically addressed a gift of legal services for a matter of
legislative concern and the question references back to that
advisory opinion.
Conner Thomas asked for the definition of a matter of
legislative concern.
Noah Klein replied there is no definition of a matter of
legislative concern, but in Advisory Opinion 23-01 the committee
determined when the matter has to do with the qualifications of
a member, specifically the role of the courts or the legislature
in determining the qualifications of a member, it would be a
matter of legislative concern.
Senator Loki Tobin wondered if the sanctions mentioned in the
conclusion would be against the legislator, the defense fund, or
the lawyer.
Noah Klein stated that the committee is only able to recommend
sanctions against people who are subject to the Legislative
Ethics Act. They could not recommend sanctions against the fund
or the lawyer.
Chair Fancher entertained other questions. Hearing none, Chair
Fancher entertained a motion to adopt the Advisory Opinion 23-
02.
Connor Thomas moved to adopt the draft Advisory Opinion 23-02.
There were no objections.
Tamara Maddox conducted a roll call vote.
Roll Call Vote
Senator David Wilson Yes
Senator Löki Tobin Yes
Representative Sara Hannan Yes
Representative DeLena Johnson Yes
Chair Fancher Yes
Skip Cook Yes
Conner Thomas Yes
Jerry McBeath Yes
The motion passed unanimously.
7. CHAIR/STAFF
REPORTS
Tamara Maddox stated at the meeting on January 9, 2024, the
committee reviewed the disclosures submitted in 2023. So far [in
2024] there have been submitted 125 board membership
disclosures, three state benefit and loan program disclosures,
one disclosure for state contracts, leases, and grants, sixteen
disclosures for a close economic association, two disclosures
for a close economic association with a lobbyist, and about 20
gifts of travel. Tamara Maddox reported the annual disclosure
deadline was February 14, 2024.
Tamara Maddox addressed campaign year items. The training on
campaign year do's and don'ts was canceled, to be rescheduled at
a later date. She noted everyone should be aware that
campaigning is not allowed during session, and offered the
Ethics Office as a resource for questions.
Tamara Maddox moved to the next item: the staff informal report.
She noted a particularly interesting question about sharing a
legislative calendar with a personal or campaign calendar in
order to see all events at the same time. The advice given was
that it was impermissible to share a legislative calendar with a
campaign calendar and it was not recommended to share a
legislative calendar with a personal calendar, but noted the
committee has found it permissible to put legislative events on
a personal calendar.
Conner Thomas asked legislative members of the Ethics Committee
how they use their calendars, and if the advice impacts current
practices.
Representative DeLena Johnson responded her understanding is
that staff is allowed to update her calendar, they need to know
when she is not available. It was important to her to clarify
what is allowed and what is not. She is cautious in how she uses
her calendar.
Senator Löki Tobin offered that each legislator handles their
calendars in unique and different ways. Some offices use Outlook
and Gmail, other offices use low tech ways of keeping their
calendars.
Representative Sara Hannan reported IT had set up her phone so
she can view all three of her calendars. In her office, she uses
a color-coded system to show her availability. Not being able to
see on the legislative calendar all the events in which everyone
in her office is involved creates a cascade of events.
Chair Fancher thanked the legislators for their input, and noted
her impression that it is not so much an Ethics matter as it is
a cybersecurity matter.
Joyce Anderson noted the Ethics Committee allows a legislator to
put their personal and campaign activities on their legislative
calendar as long as staff are not making the appointments or
answering phone calls regarding campaigns.
Tamara Maddox reported on 2024 Ethics training numbers. Two
training sessions were held, one each in Anchorage and Juneau.
Fifty-four individuals were trained in Juneau, some in person
and some online. At the Anchorage training, there were eleven
online attendees and two in person. There are still a couple of
new staff who need to take their training.
Tamara Maddox stated the Ethics Committee receives a lot of
social media questions. The social media policy issued in
September 2022 is a set of guidelines and recommendations to
legislators and legislative employees about how to handle their
official legislative pages. The social media policy encourages
not blocking individuals from posting to official legislative
social media. The guidelines are intended to help legislators to
avoid a first amendment challenge. The Ethics Act addresses to
use of government resources, so the Ethics Office may refer
legislators or legislative employee to Legislative Affairs for
more information about the social media policy.
Joyce Anderson added the Ethics Committee is more concerned
about the content posted on social media. For example, if a
legislator campaigns on an official legislative social media
page, that would be a violation of the Ethics Act.
Representative DeLena Johnson finds there is confusion between
what is personal social media and what is official legislative
social media.
Chair Fancher asked why legislators have a legislative page. Why
not post everything to a personal page?
Senator David Wilson said the reason to have two pages is to
create a brick wall between a personal page and a legislative
resource page. Staff may only post to an official legislative
page. A personal page is for family and friends. He wishes
Legislative Council would better define whether a legislative
page is a state resource.
Senator Löki Tobin reported it is an evolving issue. Currently,
there are at least two cases before the Supreme Court delving
into elected officials and the use of social media. She
anticipates they may provide some insight and guidelines but
does not expect them to provide all of the answers as these
situations continue to morph. Many younger legislators more
quickly use social media and social platforms to communicate
than do those who adopted the technology at a later age.
Constituent preferences also drive the use of different types of
social media and the type of information a legislator chooses to
share. She appreciated the reminder the Ethics Committee is more
concerned about content than about platform use.
Representative Sara Hannan added the rulings have determined
that public figures, such as legislators, have less expectation
of privacy and must have a higher tolerance. She believes it
would be premature to discuss policy prior to the Supreme Court
rulings. No one owns their identity on social media platforms.
8. BUDGET
Tamara Maddox addressed the budget. She indicated LAA Executive
Director Jessica Geary and Deputy Executive Director Santé Lesh
were in attendance; they assisted with the budgets and were also
able to speak to this matter. The FY 24 personnel services line
item shows about $98,000 remaining. Projected payroll is about
$104,000, a potential shortfall of about $6,000 in personnel
services. However, it is unknown at this time whether there will
be a shortfall overall until about May, so no action is needed
at this time. There is about $17,000 remaining in the other line
items such as travel services and commodities.
Representative Sara Hannan expressed concern about waiting until
May to address a potential FY 24 budget shortfall because it
takes time to take the necessary action. She asked if the
committee and Legislative Council have meetings planned in May
that would facilitate action before the end of the fiscal year.
Tamara Maddox responded neither a meeting or a vote would be
required; Legislative Affairs would be able to transfer funds
from another line item or request assistance from Legislative
Council.
Chair Fancher asked LAA Executive Director Jessica Geary and
Deputy Executive Director Santé Lesh to provide more
information. Jessica Geary explained the Ethics Committee budget
is within the same appropriation as is the Legislative Council
budget and several other budgets. Any of the budgets may have
additional funds. Transferring funds in that case would require
only an agreement between the committee chair and the person in
charge of the funds to be transferred. Around $6,000 is
considered a small potential shortfall, so it should not be a
problem.
Tamara Maddox addressed the FY 25 budget, which did require
committee action. The fiscal year begins in July. There will be
an increase in payroll costs. There may also be other cost
increases as well. The Ethics budget will go before Legislative
Council. Legislative Council requested a final number by
February 21. If the committee approves in this meeting a budget
increase to cover additional anticipated expenses, that number
will go to Legislative Council. About $23,000 is required to
cover an increase in payroll services.
Chair Fancher asked for a motion to request a budget increase of
$23,000 in the FY 25 budget.
Representative DeLena Johnson said the increase seems reasonable
to her.
Senator David Wilson said considering the cost increases
anticipated, he concurred with Representative DeLena Johnson.
Representative Sara Hannan moved to approve a budget increase of
$22,698.20 for FY 25 operations of the Ethics Committee.
Chair Fancher entertained objections. Seeing none, Chair Fancher
directed Tamara Maddox to conduct a roll call vote.
Roll Call Vote
Senator David Wilson Yes
Senator Löki Tobin Yes
Representative Sara Hannan Yes
Representative DeLena Johnson Yes
Chair Fancher Yes
Skip Cook Yes
Conner Thomas Yes
Jerry McBeath Abstain
The motion passed with seven yes votes and one abstention.
9. Motion to go into EXECUTIVE SESSION
Chair Fancher entertained a motion to go into executive session
to discuss matters which by law must remain confidential under
AS 24.60.160, Uniform Rule 22(b) regarding executive sessions,
and Rules of Procedure Section 5: Executive Sessions and
discussion of matters, the immediate knowledge of [which] would
adversely affect the finances of a governmental unit, and
discussion of subjects that tend to prejudice the reputation and
character of a person.
Conner Thomas moved to go into executive session. With no
objection, the committee did so.
Chair Fancher asked for an exception to allow the following
people to stay in the executive session:
Tamara Maddox
Jacqui Yeagle
Joyce Anderson
Noah Klein
There were no objections.
10. EXECUTIVE SESSION
11. PUBLIC SESSION
Chair Fancher explained the committee would vote on an advisory
opinion.
Representative Sara Hannan moved to adopt advisory opinion dated
January 10, 2024, work order number 33-LS1114.
Chair Fancher directed Tamara Maddox to conduct a roll call
vote.
Roll Call Vote
Representative Sara Hannan Yes
Representative DeLena Johnson Yes
Senator Löki Tobin Yes
Chair Fancher Yes
Skip Cook Yes
Conner Thomas Yes
The advisory opinion was adopted.
12. OTHER BUSINESS
There was no other business.
13. ADJOURN
Connor Thomas moved to adjourn the meeting. and the meeting
adjourned at 11:04 a.m.
BACK ON THE RECORD
Due to a technical difficulty, the Ethics Committee went back on
the record at 11:06 a.m. Chair Fancher directed Tamara Maddox to
conduct roll call.
Roll Call
Representative Sara Hannan Present
Senator David Wilson Not Present
Representative DeLena Johnson Present
Senator Löki Tobin Not Present
Chair Fancher Present
Conner Thomas Present
Skip Cook Present
Jerry McBeath Not Present
There was a quorum.
Deb Fancher asked Representative Sara Hannan to amend her motion
to adopt the advisory opinion.
Representative Sara Hannan stated that she misspoke in the
motion she previously made. She moved to approve the legal
services legal memo that is work order number 33-LS1291. The
subject matter is voting when members will receive a benefit.
Skip Cook added for clarification that the format would be
changed to reflect the standard format for advisory opinions.
Joyce Anderson added the advisory opinion is AO 24-01.
Chair Fancher entertained other comments. Hearing none, she
directed Tamara Maddox to conduct a roll call vote.
Roll Call Vote
Representative Sara Hannan Yes
Representative DeLena Johnson Yes
Chair Fancher Yes
Conner Thomas Yes
Skip Cook Yes
AO 24-01 was adopted.
14. ADJOURN
Chair Fancher entertained other comments. Hearing none, she
adjourned the meeting at 11:08 AM on Friday February 16, 2024.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Feb 16 2024 BASIS Full committee meeting packet.pdf |
JETH 2/16/2024 8:30:00 AM |