Legislature(2023 - 2024)BUTROVICH 205
01/19/2023 02:00 PM House SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
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ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SELECT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ETHICS
JANUARY 19, 2023
2:00 PM
FULL COMMITTEE
2:05:34 PM
1. CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER
Skip Cook called the meeting to order and welcomed
committee members and guests.
Skip Cook announced that Gerald McBeath had been selected
by Supreme Court Justice Winfree to fill the public member
position formerly held by Lee Holmes. He added that the
committee was waiting for another letter from the Supreme
Court Justice about another position.
Skip Cook directed Jerry Anderson to take roll.
Roll call
Senator Gary Stevens
Senator Loki Tobin
Skip Cook
Conner Thomas (telephonic)
Joyce Anderson
Deb Fancher
Jerry McBeath
Quorum present with two senators and five public members.
Skip Cook asked if anyone other than Conner Thomas was on
the phone. There was no response.
Skip Cook announced that Jacqui Yeagle and Jerry Anderson
were also in attendance in the room.
Skip Cook reminded everyone to identify themselves before
speaking. He added that the meeting was expected to last
about 45 minutes.
Others present
Doug Gardner
2:07:51 PM
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Skip Cook entertained a motion to approve the agenda.
Motion made by Deb Fancher
No objection. The agenda was approved.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
a. House Subcommittee October 13, 2022
Skip Cook entertained a motion to approve the minutes of
the [October 13, 2022, House Subcommittee] meeting.
Deb Fancher so moved.
Skip Cook entertained objections. There were no objections.
The minutes were approved.
b. House Subcommittee November 18, 2022
Skip Cook entertained a motion to approve the minutes of
the [November 18, 2022, House Subcommittee] meeting.
Joyce Anderson so moved.
Skip Cook entertained objections. There were no objections.
The minutes were approved.
2:09:11 PM
4. PUBLIC COMMENT
Skip Cook inquired whether there was public comment. There
was no public comment.
2:09:29 PM
5. ELECTION OF COMMITTEE CHAIRS FOR 2023-2024
Skip Cook announced the committee would elect only officers
of the Senate Subcommittee because the House had not yet
appointed its members.
Skip Cook opened nominations for the Senate Subcommittee
chair position.
Conner Thomas nominated Skip Cook to chair the Senate
Subcommittee. Skip Cook entertained additional nominations.
Hearing none, Skip Cook directed Jerry Anderson to conduct
a roll call vote.
Roll call vote
Deb Fancher Y
Jerry McBeath Y
Conner Thomas Y
Skip Cook Y
Joyce Anderson Y
Senator Gary Stevens Y
Senator Loki Tobin Y
The Ethics Committee members elected Skip Cook to chair the
Senate Subcommittee by a vote of 7-0.
Skip Cook entertained nominations for the Senate
Subcommittee Vice-Chair position.
Deb Fancher nominated Conner Thomas. Skip Cook entertained
other nominations. There were no other nominations. Skip
Cook directed Jerry Anderson to conduct a roll call vote.
Roll call vote
Senator Loki Tobin Y
Deb Fancher Y
Jerry McBeath Y
Conner Thomas Y
Skip Cook Y
Joyce Anderson Y
Senator Gary Stevens Y
By a vote of 7-0, Ethics Committee members elected Conner
Thomas Vice-Chair of the Senate Subcommittee.
Joyce Anderson noted that the chair of the Senate
Subcommittee shall chair the full committee in odd number
years beginning the first day of the legislative session.
The House Subcommittee Chair, when elected, would chair the
full committee in even number years beginning the first day
of the regular legislative session.
Skip Cook thanked Joyce Anderson for her comment.
2:12:53 PM
6. CHAIR/STAFF REPORT
a. Management Log Review
Skip Cook directed Jerry Anderson to the next agenda item.
Jerry Anderson directed the committee members to the
management log. He said the [log] contained informal advice
that did not pertain to routine matters. He entertained
questions about the report from the committee.
Joyce Anderson cited a couple of typos. The first typo, in
the first question under the Campaign Related subheading,
the first line should be edited to say, "letter of intent.
The second typo, in the second sentence of the question,
the word campaign was misspelled.
Jerry McBeath asked for more information about the question
on the second page of the staff report, May I sell tickets
for a fundraiser in the Capitol? The answer says you may
sell tickets for a recognized, nonpolitical charitable
organization under AS 24.60.030(a)(2)(I). He asked how it
was determined whether an organization is a recognized,
nonpolitical charitable organization.
Jerry Anderson said informal advice from the administrator
does not extend to determining whether an organization is a
recognized, nonpolitical charitable organization. A
legislator or legislative employee would have to research
an organization to determine whether fundraising in the
Capitol would be allowed under that statute section.
Jerry McBeath reported the statute section does not list
recognized, nonpolitical charitable organizations.
Jerry Anderson confirmed there was no list.
Jerry McBeath confirmed it was a judgement call.
Jerry Anderson indicated that as many things are, that was
the case.
Skip Cook asked if there were other comments on the topic.
Senator Lki Tobin stated that there is a 501(c)(3) status
with the IRS that outlines a recognized, nonprofit they
cannot engage in political action more than 25% of the
time. Over 25%, the organization is considered a political
organization and are no longer recognized as a charitable
organization.
Jerry McBeath replied that was federal code and they were
looking at Alaska statutes.
Senator Löki Tobin agreed and said she would be curious if
that definition [might also be true in Alaska].
Jerry McBeath lamented the lack of clarity because there
are thousands of charitable, nonpolitical organizations.
Senator Löki Tobin agreed and noted there are 7,000.
Skip Cook directed Jerry Anderson to move on.
Jerry Anderson asked if there were other questions about
the management log. There was none.
c. Ethics Disclosures
Jerry Anderson directed the committee to a discussion of
the ethics disclosures filed in 2022 and the comparison
between disclosures filed between 2019 and 2022.
Jerry Anderson pointed out the differences in the number of
disclosures filed over that time period. Covid may have
contributed to the drop in numbers. He noted in particular
the decrease in the number of gifts of travel disclosures,
especially in 2020 and 2021 but he pointed out that even in
2022 there were roughly half as many as in 2019.
Jerry Anderson said he is more puzzled by the number of
board disclosures. The list shows a decrease in the number
of disclosures from 2021 to 2022. Ethics staff emphasizes
in newsletters that board memberships disclosures are
required during and between sessions, the only exception
being if the position is read across the floor. If the
difference in the number of disclosures can be attributed
to the exception, that would be understandable.
Jerry Anderson said that in [AO 13-02] the committee
focused on what constitutes a board and who is considered a
board member. Staff will continue to emphasize disclosure
reporting in newsletters.
Jerry Anderson asked for input from the committee.
Senator Gary Stevens said he did not think [the drop in
numbers] was shocking given Covid. People didnt want to go
into public meetings. It might be interesting to see if
that changes this year. He himself did not participate as
much as before Covid.
Deb Fancher asked Jerry Anderson to explain the term read
across the floor.
Jerry Anderson said that term applies to, for example, if
Senator Gary Stevens appoints a representative from the
legislature to a committee. In that case, that board
membership need not be disclosed.
Jerry McBeath said that he had originally understood the
term board of directors from a business perspective. But
the committee definition includes nonconventional positions
such as treasurer or elder of a church. A number of
examples would help in increasing the board membership
disclosures.
Jerry Anderson replied that there is a list of examples in
training materials.
Senator Löki Tobin echoed Senator Gary Stevens. She said
that in 2019, she participated in six organizations; in
2022, she participated in two organizations. She is
currently the board development chair of one of the
organizations, and they struggle to recruit. People are
tired, burnt out, and overwhelmed. She thinks there is a
shift in the service sector, similar to the great
resignation in the business sector.
Jerry Anderson thanked Senator Löki Tobin and commented
that it may be activity fatigue.
Joyce Anderson gave an example to Deb Fancher of the type
of board disclosure that would be read across the floor: an
appointment to an NCSL committee.
b. Public Member Committee Appointment Update
Not taken up by committee
c. Publications
i. 2022 Public Decisions Booklet AS
24.60.150(a)(3)
ii. 2022 Advisory Opinion Booklet AS
24.60.150(a)(2)
iii. 2023 Standards of Conduct Handbook
Jerry Anderson directed the committees attention to the Public
Decisions and Advisory Opinions booklets. There was only one
public decision and one advisory opinion published in 2022. In
accordance with the statute and the committee rules of
procedure, the booklets were distributed to all legislators and
to the public members as well.
Jerry Anderson remarked that in addition each of the committee
members were given a copy of the 2023 Standards of Conduct
Handbook. In accordance with committee discussion, a printed
copy of the handbook was distributed to every legislative
office; it is also posted on the ethics website. Paper copies
are available if requested.
2:28:27 PM
7. 2021 ETHICS TRAINING
Jerry Anderson reported there were no numbers yet to share.
New legislators had training in December. The in person
attendance was impacted by the amount of snow. Deb Fancher
attended that training also. Jerry Anderson asked Deb
Fancher if she had any comments about the training.
Deb Fancher said she did not think that Jerry Anderson had
enough time to cover all the good questions that were
asked. Other than that, she thought the training was
excellent.
Jerry Anderson said he had a full three hours at the
December training, unlike the shorter training with
returning legislators. There were limited opportunities to
take advantage of in person training by NCSL trainers. The
NCSL training was recorded to allow those unable to attend
in person on the training days to have the opportunity to
view the NCSL training.
Jerry Anderson noted that he appreciated Senator Gary
Stevens working with the ethics office to coordinate
training with other legislator activities.
Senator Gary Stevens applauded Jerry Anderson for the days
excellent presentation. He thinks it was just about the
right amount of time for returning legislator training and
he would be concerned if it lasted longer.
Skip Cook complimented Jerry Anderson on effectively using
his limited amount of time in training.
2:31:59 PM
8. BUDGET
Skip Cook moved to discussion of the budget and directed
Jerry Anderson to speak.
a. FY23 Budget Summary
Jerry Anderson said that the budget was current as of January 9.
The need for extra money appears to have faded, and the
remaining funds in the budget are sufficient for the rest of the
fiscal year. He entertained questions by the committee.
b. FY24 Budget Request Detail
Jerry Anderson directed the committee to the FY 2024 budget
request. He said there is always a 4.9% vacancy rate,
something that does not happen often in a two-person
office.
Joyce Anderson asked Jerry Anderson to confirm that he
believes the budget is sufficient.
Jerry Anderson confirmed that the budget appears
sufficient.
2:34:21 PM
9. CONTRACT REPORT
Skip Cook directed the committee to a discussion of outside
contracts.
Jerry Anderson said the committee had approved a $15,000
contract with Kevin Fitzgerald for outside counsel. However, it
seems the $15,000 is no longer needed; only minimal expense,
about $2,000, will be encumbered.
Jerry Anderson said modification will be needed to extend the
contract with Brent Cole, the attorney handling the lawsuit
filed against the committee by former Senator Lora Reinbold,
which while ongoing, may be dismissed shortly by the judge.
Conner Thomas asked if there was a motion for dismissal pending
before the judge.
Jerry Anderson replied that was the case.
Conner Thomas asked Jerry Anderson to confirm that as far as he
knows, the motion work is done.
Jerry Anderson answered yes and he believes it is in the hands
of the court to act on it.
Senator Löki Tobin asked for a brief at ease.
Skip Cook entertained objections from the committee to rollback
to public comment to allow Representative Sara Hannan to address
the committee. There were no objections.
Representative Sara Hannan thanked the committee for the
opportunity to speak. She commented on her observations of the
investigation done on a House ethics complaint. She said she
wished she had asked more questions about the process the
investigator used to contact people in the investigation.
Representative Sara Hannan believes the committee was led to
believe that people were noncompliant and nonresponsive to the
investigator. Her understanding was that no one returned
repeated phone calls placed to offices in the Capitol outside of
legislative sessions. No attempts to reach the people in writing
or using alternative phone numbers were attempted. The result
was several months delay, which in turn cost money and time and
a request for additional funding, which she herself supported
and advocated. She feels frustrated that much of that could have
been truncated had the investigator used alternative methods to
reach the people involved. It is her understanding that when
those same people received written communication, they responded
immediately.
Representative Sara Hannan said she is happy to hear that the
additional money is no longer needed but the delay in the
process was unnecessary.
Joyce Anderson asked if the phone number the investigator called
was a legislative phone number.
Representative Sara Hannan replied yes but it was outside of
session.
Joyce Anderson asked if calls made to the Capitol phone number
are automatically forwarded to legislative office outside of the
Capitol.
Representative Sara Hannan replied not automatically it is up
to each office to forward the phone calls. She does not know why
the staff did not forward the calls, but it is not a
requirement. Many legislators have a district office with a
different phone number. All of the numbers are published on the
same site. It is her understanding that the investigator only
called the phone numbers in the Capitol.
Joyce Anderson said she had always been under the impression
that calls were always forwarded and she was glad that
Representative Sara Hannan had clarified that.
Skip Cook thanked Representative Sara Hannan for her comments.
10. OTHER BUSINESS
Skip Cook said that he would comment on the COGEL
conference in December. He said that he and Conner Thomas
were the only attendees from the committee. He invited
Conner Thomas to comment about the conference.
Conner Thomas said he thought it was a great conference.
There were a couple of things that were particularly
relevant to the committees situation. One related to
updating the status and projected timelines of public
complaints on websites. A second topic addressed the issue
of prohibitions against using Zoom for certain kinds of
meetings. Massachusetts developed a process using best
practices to avoid confidential information becoming
public. He added he did not know the level of interest the
committee may have in pursuing [a similar process] but
given the difficulties of convening a meeting, it would be
worth considering. And lastly, there was talk about using a
variety of social media to keep people engaged with ethics
training.
Skip Cook said that COGEL attendees are primarily from
North America but occasionally there are attendees from
other countries. The organization is the Council on
[Governmental] Ethics Laws, which includes states,
counties, cities, and other governmental organizations. The
Ethics Committee is unique in that the committee has both
legislators and public members. It is unique in that the
committee only deals with legislative matters. Many others
deal with both legislative and executive ethics. He
expressed his opinion that Alaska has the best composition
of committee members.
Skip Cook said he brought the Massachusetts Ethics
Commission Guidelines for Remote Adjudicatory Proceedings
to Jerry Anderson for distribution to the committee.
Scheduling difficulties have arisen in the past because of
the requirement that final adjudications be in person. He
thinks the committee prefers to meet in person but it may
be impossible and there is no option.
Skip Cook added that next years conference will be in
Kansas City.
Joyce Anderson said that legislators on the committee are
also welcome to attend the COGEL conference.
Senator Gary Stevens asked when the conference occurs.
Joyce Anderson replied the conferences were in December,
usually the first week.
2:51:41 PM
11. ADJOURN
Skip Cook entertained a motion to adjourn.
Deb Fancher so moved.
There were no objections. The meeting was adjourned.
2:51:54 PM
ADJOURN:
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| 20230119 Senate SC BASIS.pdf |
JETH 1/19/2023 2:00:00 PM JETH 1/19/2023 3:00:00 PM |