Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124
03/02/2023 10:15 AM House ENERGY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB74 | |
| Presentation: Green Hydrogen and Alaskan Geothermal | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HB 74 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ENERGY
March 2, 2023
10:15 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative George Rauscher, Chair
Representative Tom McKay
Representative Stanley Wright
Representative Mike Prax
Representative Calvin Schrage
Representative Ashley Carrick
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Josiah Patkotak
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 74
"An Act relating to geothermal resources; relating to the
definition of 'geothermal resources'; and providing for an
effective date."
- HEARD & HELD
PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 74
SHORT TITLE: GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
SPONSOR(s): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/15/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/15/23 (H) ENE, RES
02/23/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
02/23/23 (H) -- MEETING CANCELED --
02/28/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
02/28/23 (H) Heard & Held
02/28/23 (H) MINUTE(ENE)
03/02/23 (H) ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124
WITNESS REGISTER
PAUL CRAIG, President
GeoAlaska, LLC
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
GUY OLIVER, PhD, Leader
Geoscience and Exploration
Ignis Energy
Houston, Texas
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
GEOFF SIMPSON, Landman
Cyrq Energy
Boulder, Colorado
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave invited testimony during the hearing
on HB 74.
PAUL FUHS, CEO
Alaska Hydrogen Industries
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 74 and gave a
PowerPoint presentation, titled the "Green Hydrogen and Alaskan
Geothermal."
ACTION NARRATIVE
10:15:21 AM
CHAIR GEORGE RAUSCHER called the House Special Committee on
Energy meeting to order at 10:15 a.m. Representatives Carrick,
Prax, McKay, and Rauscher were present at the call to order.
Representatives Wright and Schrage arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 74-GEOTHERMAL RESOURCES
10:16:35 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 74, "An Act relating to geothermal resources;
relating to the definition of 'geothermal resources'; and
providing for an effective date."
10:17:33 AM
PAUL CRAIG, President, GeoAlaska, LLC, stated that GeoAlaska has
geothermal exploration permits on Mount Spurr and Augustine
Island. He said that GeoAlaska and Ignis Energy have worked out
an agreement to partner together in efforts to develop
geothermal energy at these sites. He expressed GeoAlaska's
support for HB 74, as it is a necessary step in the development
of geothermal resources. He argued that the current length of
time for permits under current statute is too short to discover
the feasibility of geothermal plants. He said that the current
instability of royalty structures also makes it more difficult
to secure investors. He stated that the oldest geothermal
project in the world was created in 1904 in Tuscany, Italy, and
it is still producing geothermal energy today.
10:26:40 AM
GUY OLIVER, PhD, Leader, Geoscience and Exploration, Ignis
Energy, expressed Ignis Energy's support for HB 74, as written.
He explained that Ignis Energy is a worldwide leader in
connecting different sources of energy with geothermal sources
of energy in order to meet energy demand. He said that Ignis
has been doing work in Alaska for over 20 years, with the aim to
greatly increase the development of Alaska's "underutilized"
geothermal resource potential. He said that the extra time to
explore provided in HB 74 would be a vital step in increasing
geothermal power, especially because the weather patterns in the
state limit the work that can be done during certain parts of
the year.
10:33:11 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked when the projects at Mount Spurr and
Augustine Island could be expected to start producing energy.
DR. OLIVER answered that, according to plan, geophysical data is
expected this year, with a test well by the summer of 2024. He
stated that the total time to start producing energy would be
five or six years from now.
10:36:14 AM
GEOFF SIMPSON, Landman, Cyrq Energy, stated that Cyrg Energy is
a subsidiary of Macquarie Infrastructure and Real Assets, the
largest infrastructure company in the world. He stated that
Cyrg has 10 ongoing geothermal projects around the world,
including in Alaska. He expressed Cyrq Energy's support for HB
74.
10:38:37 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER opened public testimony on HB 74.
10:39:09 AM
PAUL FUHS, CEO, Alaska Hydrogen Industries, testified in support
of HB 74. He stated that geothermal energy would be sustainable
in the long-term, and the provisions in the bill changing the
royalty structure would create stability for geothermal energy.
10:40:32 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER, after ascertaining that there was no one else
who wished to testify, closed public testimony on HB 74.
[HB 74 was held over.]
10:40:45 AM
The committee took an at-ease from 10:40 a.m. to 10:42 a.m.
^PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
PRESENTATION: GREEN HYDROGEN AND ALASKAN GEOTHERMAL
10:42:10 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER announced that the final order of business would
be a presentation on green hydrogen and Alaskan geothermal.
10:42:31 AM
PAUL FUHS, CEO, Alaska Hydrogen Industries, gave a PowerPoint
presentation, titled "Alaska Geothermal, Green Hydrogen, and
Associated Industrial Processes and Products" [hard copy
included in the committee packet]. He stated that he had
overseen the building of a geothermal well during his time as
mayor of Dutch Harbor. He stated that the earth's core is the
same temperature as the sun, and heat radiates through the
earth's mantle, allowing for the ability to produce geothermal
energy.
10:44:20 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 3 and slide 4, overviewing the
possible geothermal sites in the Aleutian Islands and Alaska's
strategic marine shipping position. He provided a map with the
locations and showing the heat flow. He pointed out that these
positions allow for materials and goods to flow easily through
the islands, increasing geothermal opportunities. He continued
to slide 5 and slide 6, stating that the geothermal production
system is binary. Heat is exchanged to produce steam and spin
the turbines, which creates electricity, and the water is then
reinjected into the ground to be heated again. He showed the
Mammoth Geothermal Plant in California, which has an energy
output similar to that of the Bradley Lake Hydroelectric in
Alaska.
10:47:03 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 7 and slides 8, showing images of a
magnetotelluric geothermal imaging graph and a hydrolyzer plant
in Denmark. He stated that the most expensive part of
geothermal production is the exploration for a good location.
He pointed out that the green areas in the image are the less
resistant areas, more easily allowing the necessary process of
water going back into the ground. He stated that a hydrolyzer
plant separates the water from the hydrogen in the process of
restoring the water into the plant production area.
MR. FUHS continued to slide 9 and slide 10 showing the
[projected] geothermal and tidal sites in False Pass and the
[projected] Makushin geothermal plant in Dutch Harbor. He
stated that the hydrogen producing parts of the plant could be
adjusted to fill whatever current energy ends there are in False
Pass. He stated that the geothermal plant would be able to
produce energy at a cost as low as 4.5 cents per kilowatt-hour,
and the currents sales agreement with Dutch Harbor is 12 cents
per kilowatt-hour. He pointed out challenges that involve
changing regulations, and he advised that the continuation of
geothermal development would rely on the state providing
stability to the projects.
10:54:23 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked whether Alaska Hydrogen Industries is
working with the Alaska Energy Authority.
MR. FUHS responded in the affirmative.
10:55:14 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 11 through slide 13, showing more
images of geothermal plants and geothermal imaging. He
expressed the opinion that Unimak Island includes an area of
state land that has the potential to house facilities for both
geothermal and tidal energy production, while Adak Island has
great geothermal energy potential. He suggested that the City
of Adak has an infrastructure which would make getting started
there easier. He showed an additional sample of geothermal
imaging representing the type of area that would best support
the production of geothermal energy.
MR. FUHS continued to slide 14 and gave a brief overview of
hydrogen programs provided by the U.S. Department of Energy
(DoE). He stated that because of the population size, DoE had
previously rejected a grant in Alaska, but the Alaska Hydrogen
Working Group is working on a proof of concept to garner
interest for future projects.
MR. FUHS continued to slide 15 through slide 17 and gave an
overview of hydrogen electrolysis. He stated that separating
the hydrogen and oxygen anodes works to generate electricity.
He compared hydrogen electrolysis with burning natural gas, with
the difference being the amount of carbon dioxide placed into
the atmosphere.
10:59:54 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY commented on the high temperature
mentioned, and he questioned the temperature in Fahrenheit.
MR. FUHS suggested that the temperatures in Celsius and
Fahrenheit would cross over at some point. He stated that 30
percent of the methane would be burnt to produce the high
temperatures.
11:00:40 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 18 and slide 19 and stated that
steel is one of the greatest sources of carbon dioxide because
of the amount of burning involved in the process. He said that
Kobe Steel, LTD, has a plant in South Carolina with a tower to
expose iron to hydrogen without burning it. He added that steel
is the most recycled material, and this process has the
potential to increase the number of times it can be recycled.
11:03:17 AM
MR. FUHS continued to slide 20 and slide 21 and gave a brief
overview of hydrogen-based fuels. He stated that ammonia works
well as a fuel and can be stored at temperatures that other
types of fuel cannot. Methylcyclohexane is an artificial
chemical created by taking hydrogen from the air; although
carbon is being put into the air, it was taken out to produce
the fuel. He added that this is already used to raise the
octane level of gas station fuel.
MR. FUHS continued to slide 22 through slide 25 and gave an
overview of fuel density and transportation. He stated that
using less dense fuels would allow ships to carry more cargo and
make fewer stops. He showed an experimental ship design that
would allow for the more efficient transport of liquid hydrogen.
MR. FUHS continued to slide 26 and slide 27, pointing out that
there is a market for hydrogen-based products in Japan. He
expressed the understanding that Japan is seeking to reduce its
fossil fuel output and look for nuclear alternatives. He
suggested that Alaska could help by implementing policies that
would support the development of renewable fuels, including
providing financial support for the upfront costs associated
with geothermal energy production. He added that the state
should continue to provide support for fossil fuel production,
expressing the opinion that people living in Artic regions are
being made to "pay" for fossil fuel usage around the world. He
suggested that Alaska should also support the development of
mineral resources, as these minerals are needed to build the
equipment for renewable energy production.
11:11:09 AM
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked how the purification process for iron ore
works.
MR. FUHS answered that large magnets are used to pull the iron
out, and then the iron is sent to hydrogen-based steel plants.
11:12:41 AM
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY asked if there are any significant sources
of iron ore in the state.
MR. FUHS answered that two of the biggest sources of iron ore
are Brazil and Canada. In response to a follow-up question, he
said that any coal of the quality necessary to produce steel is
on the North Slope.
11:16:15 AM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Special Committee on Energy meeting was adjourned at [11:16]
a.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| House Energy Committee 3.2.2023 pdf-compressed.pdf |
HENE 3/2/2023 10:15:00 AM |
Alaska Green Hydrogen Geothermal |