Legislature(2023 - 2024)BARNES 124

03/19/2024 10:15 AM House ENERGY

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10:16:46 AM Start
10:18:06 AM HB368
11:57:42 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 368 ELECTRICAL ENERGY & ENERGY PORTFOLIO STDS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 368(ENE) Out of Committee
-- Invited & Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ENERGY                                                                              
                         March 19, 2024                                                                                         
                           10:16 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative George Rauscher, Chair                                                                                           
Representative Tom McKay                                                                                                        
Representative Thomas Baker                                                                                                     
Representative Stanley Wright                                                                                                   
Representative Mike Prax                                                                                                        
Representative Calvin Schrage                                                                                                   
Representative Jennie Armstrong                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 368                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to clean energy standards and a clean energy                                                                   
transferable tax credit; and providing for an effective date."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 368(ENE) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 368                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ELECTRICAL ENERGY & ENERGY PORTFOLIO STDS                                                                          
SPONSOR(s): ENERGY                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
02/20/24       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/20/24       (H)       ENE, FIN                                                                                               
02/22/24       (H)       ENE AT 11:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
02/22/24       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
02/27/24       (H)       ENE AT 11:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
02/27/24       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/27/24       (H)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
02/29/24       (H)       ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
02/29/24       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/29/24       (H)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/05/24       (H)       ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
03/05/24       (H)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
03/07/24       (H)       ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
03/07/24       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/07/24       (H)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/14/24       (H)       ENE AT 10:15 AM DAVIS 106                                                                              
03/14/24       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/14/24       (H)       MINUTE(ENE)                                                                                            
03/19/24       (H)       ENE AT 10:15 AM BARNES 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CURTIS THAYER, Executive Director                                                                                               
Alaska Energy Authority                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified and answered questions during the                                                              
hearing on HB 368.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JULIE ESTEY, Chief Strategy Officer                                                                                             
Matanuska Electric Association                                                                                                  
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding proposed                                                                    
amendments to HB 368.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CRAIG VALDEZ, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative George Rauscher                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions about Amendment 10 to HB
368 on behalf of the House Special Committee on Energy, sponsor,                                                                
on which Representative Rauscher serves as chair.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
KEN HUCKABA, representing self                                                                                                  
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 368.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
KASSIE ANDREWS, representing self                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 368.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
KEN GRIFFIN, representing self                                                                                                  
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 368.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TODD LINDLEY, representing self                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 368.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:16:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER  called the  House  Special  Committee on  Energy                                                               
meeting  to order  at  10:16 a.m.    Representatives Prax,  Baker                                                               
Schrage,  Wright, Armstrong,  and  Rauscher were  present at  the                                                               
call to order.   Representative McKay arrived as  the meeting was                                                               
in progress.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
        HB 368-ELECTRICAL ENERGY & ENERGY PORTFOLIO STDS                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:18:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  announced that the  only order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  368,  "An  Act  relating  to  clean  energy                                                               
standards  and  a  clean  energy  transferable  tax  credit;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:19:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CURTIS  THAYER,  Executive   Director,  Alaska  Energy  Authority                                                               
(AEA),  advised that  regardless of  what technology  is used  or                                                               
whether it is  achieved through a clean energy  standard (CES) or                                                               
a   renewable  portfolio   standard  (RPS),   the  key   is  that                                                               
transmission lines  are needed  to move that  power.   Alaska, he                                                               
continued, lacks the  transmission lines on the  Railbelt to move                                                               
that power to where the people are.   If Alaska were in the Lower                                                               
48, he  pointed out, it  would be required  to have two  or three                                                               
different  transmission lines  servicing the  Railbelt, not  just                                                               
the one  line that Alaska  has had for over  40 years.   The Grid                                                               
Resilience and Innovation Partnership  (GRIP) would give Alaska a                                                               
redundant line off the Cook  Inlet into Southcentral, Alaska, and                                                               
a future phase of that would  be to connect a High Voltage Direct                                                               
Current  (HVDC)  line  going  up  to  Healy,  Alaska,  to  get  a                                                               
redundancy line out of Fairbanks.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:20:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER  noted   that  HB  368  doesn't   focus  much  on                                                               
transmission  lines.   He  requested Mr.  Thayer  to explain  the                                                               
details  and  differences  between   the  existing  and  proposed                                                               
transmission lines.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER  replied that  the $206.5  million in  federal funding                                                               
from GRIP requires  a match of $206.5 million [from  the State of                                                               
Alaska].    The  project  -  the $413  million  HVDC  line  -  is                                                               
anticipated to  be about 65  miles long and would  run underneath                                                               
the Cook  Inlet and tie in  near Bernice Lake north  of the Homer                                                               
system.   It  would then  connect through  converters to  Chugach                                                               
Electric  Association's (CEA's)  Beluga substation,  a gas  fired                                                               
power plant  located across  the inlet.   Since Beluga  has lines                                                               
that  take  power  into  Anchorage, it  would  give  a  redundant                                                               
(second)  loop  off the  Kenai  [Peninsula].   This  summer,  the                                                               
Alaska  Energy   Authority  (AEA)  will  look   at  the  routing,                                                               
engineering, and  cost of this  eight-year project.   Since there                                                               
is  no  off-the-shelf   HVDC  line  that  can   be  purchased,  a                                                               
consideration  is  to look  at  the  different sizes  which  cost                                                               
varying amounts.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:23:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER asked  whether all  the  land that  is needed  to                                                               
develop the  new HVDC  line is already  acquired so  building the                                                               
line could commence immediately [upon receipt of the money].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER  responded that most  of the  line would be  under the                                                               
Cook  Inlet  and  would  connect to  Bernice  Lake,  an  existing                                                               
substation with  Homer Electric Association  (HEA).   Since there                                                               
is a  trench in the  middle of Cook Inlet  and the cable  will be                                                               
buried  about   six  feet   under,  environmental   studies  will                                                               
determine the route  and most cost-effective way to  do the line.                                                               
The  GRIP  funding  only  allows  eight  years  to  complete  the                                                               
project,  so [AEA]  wants to  do the  environmental studies  this                                                               
summer to ensure that once a  grant agreement is in place a field                                                               
season won't be missed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked  whether the HVDC line would  be run through                                                               
a liquid filled casing.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER  answered that the  cabling is  encased and is  six to                                                               
ten inches round,  and right now, AEA  doesn't anticipate putting                                                               
it into  a different  encasement across  the inlet.   He  said he                                                               
will provide to the committee  a cross-section image of the cable                                                               
and pictures of the jet drive and  how they dig in the mud, blast                                                               
the mud, and lay the cable.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSHER  thanked the committee for  indulging his questions                                                               
about  transmission lines  because they  are not  what HB  368 is                                                               
about, rather HB 368 takes place after that cable is built.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:26:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE continued with  the topic of transmission.                                                               
He said  the concern is built  into HB 368 that  the transmission                                                               
isn't there to  transmit the electricity throughout  the state to                                                               
where it  is needed.   He asked where  that constraint is  and if                                                               
this  initial   GRIP  application  addresses   that  transmission                                                               
constraint.   He further asked  whether it is a  constraint today                                                               
or becomes a constraint as things are built out.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER replied that the constraint  is today and was 32 years                                                               
ago when  Bradley Lake,  a 120-megawatt  power plant,  was built.                                                               
The 50-plus-year-old line servicing  Bradley Lake was designed to                                                               
serve Homer with power, not  take power northward from Homer, and                                                               
in  essence is  a 75-megawatt  line.   A $90  million upgrade  is                                                               
currently being done by AEA  on the SSQ Line [Sterling Substation                                                               
to  Quartz Creek],  dual lines  purchased by  AEA four  years ago                                                               
after  the Swan  Lake  fire.   The  fire took  that  line out  of                                                               
service  for four  months, costing  ratepayers about  $12 million                                                               
more in  burning natural gas.   There is a congestion  at Bradley                                                               
Lake;  Kenai couldn't  take  all the  power  produced at  Bradley                                                               
Lake, so water  had to be spilled.  This  last winter an existing                                                               
line went  down for five  days between Whittier and  Girdwood due                                                               
to a  snowstorm.   These examples show  the vulnerability  of not                                                               
having  a  secondary  line  out   of  the  lower  peninsula  into                                                               
Southcentral  Alaska  and  on to  Fairbanks,  which  receives  17                                                               
percent  of the  power from  Bradley  Lake; the  HVDC line  would                                                               
provide redundancy.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  inquired about  when it is  expected that                                                               
the   transmission  constraint   will  be   alleviated  and   the                                                               
provisions in HB 368 will become enforceable.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER responded  that the HVDC is  approximately eight years                                                               
and upgrades  are currently  being done  on the  SSQ Line  on the                                                               
Kenai Peninsula.  Analysis is being  done on ways to shorten that                                                               
time window, but  transmission upgrades take five  to eight years                                                               
to be  fully completed.  Supply  chain logistics are an  issue in                                                               
that items  have been on  order for 18-24 months,  something that                                                               
was not the case before COVID-19.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:31:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  asked whether there  is a high  degree of                                                               
confidence  that these  transmission upgrades  will be  executed.                                                               
He further asked  about the necessity of the provision  in HB 368                                                               
that provides an out if  the transmission isn't completed and the                                                               
bill becomes essentially unenforceable.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER answered that many  independent power producers (IPPs)                                                               
are  coming into  the market,  so  these upgrades  are needed  to                                                               
ensure that  power can move.   The AEA and utilities  are working                                                               
together,  which is  one reason  why [AEA]  secured $166  million                                                               
through bonding  to start  these upgrades.   Part of  the package                                                               
deal is  battery storage in  Homer and at the  Matanuska Electric                                                               
Association/Chugach  Electric Association  facility  and all  the                                                               
way to Fairbanks.   Because things are  progressing, upgrades are                                                               
being done currently,  and there is now the $200  million in GRIP                                                               
funding, [AEA and  the utilities] are confident they  can do both                                                               
simultaneously.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:33:33 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX asked  whether  the financing  plan is  true                                                               
bond for  all these projects,  or whether state grants  are being                                                               
looked for.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  THAYER  replied that  the  upgrades  to  the SSQ  Line  have                                                               
already  been bonded.    The  cost of  all  three battery  energy                                                               
storage  systems (BESSs)  is  about $180  million,  of which  $57                                                               
million is already  in hand through that bond.   In that bonding,                                                               
$20 million is  paid for by the ratepayer and  has been set aside                                                               
to do  initial work,  so a match  of $186 million  is needed.   A                                                               
match  of  $206.5  is  needed  for the  $206.5  million  in  GRIP                                                               
funding.  With the governor's  budget of $12.7 million, about $33                                                               
million of the $206 million needed  for the match is already had,                                                               
and so the state  is being looked at for securing  part or all of                                                               
the match.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX stated  that things can and do  go wrong with                                                               
financing and he  isn't qualified to look at that,  so he is more                                                               
comfortable  with  paying  the  extra  to bond  this.    For  the                                                               
legislature to spend money on this,  he said he would like to see                                                               
an arithmetic evaluation of funding and project viability.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:37:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  cited a study by  the [National Renewable                                                               
Energy Laboratory  (NREL)] which  indicated that the  lowest cost                                                               
option  for utilities  would be  to go  towards about  70 percent                                                               
renewable energy by  2040.  He expressed his  concern that rather                                                               
than reaching the bill's target  threshold of 60 percent by 2051,                                                               
the utilities  might reach 70 percent  by 2040, which would  be a                                                               
financial impact  to the  state that is  much higher  and quicker                                                               
than expected.   He asked whether  AEA has a projection as to how                                                               
quickly utilities might begin deploying renewables.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER responded that he doesn't  have an idea what plans the                                                               
individual utilities are  working on for moving forward.   New in                                                               
Alaska  right now,  he advised,  is  work with  IPPs rather  than                                                               
utilities  for providing  generation,  whether that  is new  wind                                                               
farms  or solar  farms.   The  NREL study  notes that  additional                                                               
transmission lines  are needed,  and [the study's]  assumption is                                                               
that  there  is transmission  in  place  to  move that  power  in                                                               
different  directions.   He said  AEA, through  the Rural  Energy                                                               
Fund (REF),  has funded many of  the wind and solar  studies that                                                               
are being done.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:42:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  asked whether Mr. Thayer  agrees with the                                                               
NREL  study that  the  lowest cost  option is  to  go towards  70                                                               
percent renewables by 2040.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER  answered that there are  points in the NREL  study he                                                               
agrees with,  points he disagrees  with, and points on  which the                                                               
jury is still out.  At the  time the study was presented, many of                                                               
the  costs of  doing renewables  in  Alaska were  unknown.   Also                                                               
unknown  is how  renewables operate  in very  cold weather.   The                                                               
NREL  study is  a  step forward  in looking  at  options for  the                                                               
Railbelt and  Alaska in  general and  looking at  what will  be a                                                               
good mix  for Alaska.   Whether  70 percent is  the right  mix he                                                               
doesn't know,  but firm power is  definitely needed.  When  it is                                                               
cold and  there is  a high  pressure, any  wind turbines  in that                                                               
region  do not  work.   A  grid  would allow  power  to be  moved                                                               
around.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:45:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE moved  to adopt  Amendment 1  to HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.1, Walsh, 3/4/24, which read:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 9:                                                                                                            
          Delete "35 percent by December 31, 2036"                                                                              
          Insert "30 percent by December 31, 2030"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 10:                                                                                                           
          Delete "60 percent by December 31, 2051"                                                                              
     Insert "55 percent by December 31, 2035"                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 10:45 a.m. to 10:46 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:46:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE explained that  Amendment 1 would move the                                                               
target  dates for  renewables from  35 percent  by 12/31/2036  as                                                               
proposed in  HB 368,  to 30  percent by  12/31/2030; and  from 60                                                               
percent by 12/31/2051  to 55 percent by  12/31/2035.  Significant                                                               
progress is  already being made  towards renewables and  there is                                                               
broad acknowledgement  from the  energy community that  the state                                                               
is going  to start rapidly moving  towards renewables, especially                                                               
given the natural  gas shortages in Southcentral.   So, given the                                                               
state  will  potentially  be  providing  significant  tax  credit                                                               
incentives  to   these  utilities,  the  state   should  be  more                                                               
ambitious.   The  bill has  no  penalties for  not meeting  these                                                               
thresholds,  and   perhaps  this   should  be   called  renewable                                                               
portfolio targets or aspirations  rather than renewable portfolio                                                               
standard.     [The   legislature]  should   therefore  be   truly                                                               
aspirational and  move those dates  to ones that  acknowledge the                                                               
level of immediacy around this issue.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER invited Ms. Julie  Estey to provide her opinion on                                                               
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:48:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JULIE   ESTEY,  Chief   Strategy   Officer,  Matanuska   Electric                                                               
Association (MEA), responded  that MEA is looking  beyond its gas                                                               
contract ending  and is currently  conversing with  developers on                                                               
wind  and  solar.     Transmission  is  absolutely   one  of  the                                                               
constraints  on some  of  those  larger projects,  as  is how  to                                                               
integrate variable  power into MEA's  system with  regulation and                                                               
having firm  power, power that  MEA can  count on no  matter what                                                               
and when.  She stated that 30  percent by 2030 is within grasp as                                                               
an  aspirational goal,  but she  doesn't  see a  path within  the                                                               
timeframe of  55 percent by  2035.  While aspirational  is great,                                                               
setting realistic goals  ensures that they are  motivating to the                                                               
utilities, to utility members, and to power producers.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:51:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ARMSTRONG  asked  whether 2051  is  the  earliest                                                               
realistic  year  for  achieving  the  proposed  renewable  energy                                                               
goals, or whether 2045 would be more amendable [than 2035].                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ESTEY replied  that she doesn't have an  answer because there                                                               
are so many  unknowns when looking ahead,  one being transmission                                                               
and  how  much power  can  be  moved.   Utilities  are  currently                                                               
conducting studies to determine what  is possible right now, such                                                               
as regulating  variable power  on the  existing system,  and when                                                               
the upgrades are needed, she said,  but there are no answers yet.                                                               
She emphasized the need for  a realistic goal and reiterated that                                                               
she doesn't see a path to 2035.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:53:30 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  noted that most of  HB 368 takes place  after the                                                               
transmission line  is built.  He  asked about a timeline  for the                                                               
new transmission lines to be completed and fully operational.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. THAYER responded  that the current upgrading  of the existing                                                               
transmission line is  occurring in phases and is at  least a six-                                                               
year project.   He said the HVDC line off  the Kenai Peninsula is                                                               
currently projected to take six to eight years to complete.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  calculated that six  to eight years from  2024 is                                                               
2030 to 2032,  and so 30 percent by 2030  is before completion of                                                               
the  transmission line.   He  said he  must therefore  oppose the                                                               
math of Amendment 1.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX  pointed out  that the impending  shortage of                                                               
Cook Inlet natural  gas isn't contemplated in HB 368.   He opined                                                               
that calling it a crisis isn't  the right term or way to approach                                                               
this.  He said he is opposed  to Amendment 1 because it is better                                                               
to figure this out in an orderly manner.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection to Amendment 1.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:56:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  wrapped up  his comments on  Amendment 1,                                                               
noting  that  Ms.  Estey  agreed  that  30  percent  by  2030  is                                                               
achievable  even with  the current  transmission.   He emphasized                                                               
that the targets are unenforceable  and therefore they are simply                                                               
aspirational goals.   He said he is open to  a friendly amendment                                                               
to the target date for 60 percent.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:57:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG  moved to  adopt Conceptual  Amendment 1                                                               
to Amendment  1, on line  7 of Amendment  1, to change  "2035" to                                                               
"2045".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE said  he has  no objection  to Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1 to Amendment 1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX  objected  to   Conceptual  Amendment  1  to                                                               
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:58:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call vote  was  taken.   Representatives  Armstrong  and                                                               
Schrage voted in favor of  Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment 1.                                                               
Representatives Baker,  Wright, Prax, and Rauscher  voted against                                                               
it.  Therefore,  Conceptual Amendment 1 to Amendment  1 failed by                                                               
a vote of 2-4.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection to Amendment 1.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:00:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was  taken.    Representatives  Schrage  and                                                               
Armstrong   voted  in   favor   of  Amendment   1   to  HB   368.                                                               
Representatives Baker,  Wright, Prax, and Rauscher  voted against                                                               
it.  Therefore, Amendment  1 to HB 368 failed to  be adopted by a                                                               
vote of 2-4.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER deferred  consideration of Amendment 2  due to the                                                               
absence of Representative McKay.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:00:48 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE moved  to adopt  Amendment 3  to HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.3, Walsh, 3/4/24, which read:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, lines 12 - 20:                                                                                                     
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subsection accordingly.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, line 12:                                                                                                           
          Delete "(i)"                                                                                                          
     Insert "(h)"                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE explained  Amendment 3  would remove  the                                                               
opt-out provisions of  the clean energy standard  in Section 5(h)                                                               
of HB 368.  He said  he is introducing this amendment because the                                                               
bill doesn't place  any requirements on the utilities  and so the                                                               
opt-out  provisions  are  unnecessary,  plus  there  are  opt-out                                                               
provisions in other parts of the bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER stated he supports Amendment 3.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:02:38 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WRIGHT removed  his  objection.   There being  no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 3 to HB 368 was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:02:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE moved  to adopt  Amendment 4  to HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.5, Walsh, 3/4/24, which read:                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 21, following "entity":                                                                                       
          Insert "or independent power producer"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 23, following "entity":                                                                                       
          Insert "or independent power producer"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 25, following "entity":                                                                                       
          Insert "or independent power producer"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 29, following "entity":                                                                                       
          Insert "or independent power producer"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8, following line 16:                                                                                                 
     Insert a new paragraph to read:                                                                                            
               "(5)  "independent power producer" means a                                                                       
     person, other than a load-serving entity, that owns or                                                                     
     operates a facility for the generation of electricity                                                                      
     for use primarily by the public;"                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Renumber the following paragraphs accordingly.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10, lines 1 - 2:                                                                                                      
        Delete "to a load-serving entity, as defined in                                                                         
     AS 42.05.790,"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE explained  Amendment  4  would allow  for                                                               
independent power producers, which  are playing an increased role                                                               
in  producing energy  in Alaska,  to also  take advantage  of the                                                               
clean  energy  tax credit  proposed  by  HB  368.   As  currently                                                               
structured, he  continued, the  bill would  only provide  the tax                                                               
credit  to utilities  that  build out  renewable  energy, and  he                                                               
believes the tax  credit should be offered to any  entity that is                                                               
producing or building clean energy.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER stated he finds Amendment 4 to be friendly.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:03:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WRIGHT removed  his  objection.   There being  no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 4 to HB 368 was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:04:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE  said  he  will not  offer  Amendment  5,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.6, Walsh, 3/5/24.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE moved  to adopt  Amendment 6  to HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.16, Walsh, 314/24, which read:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 1:                                                                                                  
     Insert new subsections to read:                                                                                            
          "(c)  A load-serving entity that is subject to                                                                        
     the clean energy standard is  eligible to apply for the                                                                    
     clean  energy   transferable  tax  credit   under  this                                                                    
     section only  if the entity  is in compliance  with the                                                                    
     clean  energy   standard.  For  the  purpose   of  this                                                                    
     subsection,   compliance   with  an   exemption   under                                                                    
     AS 42.05.920  constitutes  compliance  with  the  clean                                                                    
     energy standard.                                                                                                           
     (d)   A load-serving entity  that fails to  comply with                                                                    
     the  clean energy  standard may  not  use a  subsidiary                                                                    
     corporation,   affiliated   corporation,   partnership,                                                                    
     association,  or  other  person   for  the  purpose  of                                                                    
     applying  for  or  remaining  eligible  for  the  clean                                                                    
     energy transferable tax credit  under this section. The                                                                    
     commission  may  adopt  regulations to  implement  this                                                                    
     subsection."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:04:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  explained Amendment 6 would  provide some                                                               
enforceability around the standards outlined  in HB 368.  To take                                                               
advantage  of the  clean energy  standard tax  credit, an  entity                                                               
would have  to be in  compliance with the clean  energy standard,                                                               
thereby giving a  level of accountability to the  bill as opposed                                                               
to  just being  a  tax credit  for  any new  or  renewables.   It                                                               
provides some  accountability to that  tax credit in  saying that                                                               
an  entity  must  actually  be  working  to  meet  the  standards                                                               
outlined in  the bill.  Utilities  should be required to  stay on                                                               
track if they are going to take advantage of that tax credit.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX stated  he doesn't  think Amendment  6 would                                                               
add any value  because if an entity is applying  for a tax credit                                                               
the entity  must be trying; therefore,  he isn't in favor  of the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER stated  he opposes  Amendment 6  for some  of the                                                               
same reasons.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT maintained his objection to Amendment 6.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
11:09:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A  roll  call  vote  was  taken.    Representatives  Schrage  and                                                               
Armstrong   voted  in   favor   of  Amendment   6   to  HB   368.                                                               
Representatives Wright,  Prax, McKay,  Baker, and  Rauscher voted                                                               
against  it.   Therefore,  Amendment 6  to HB  368  failed to  be                                                               
adopted by a vote of 2-5.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  stated he will not  offer Amendment 7 to  HB 368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.9, Walsh, 3/13/24.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:10:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER moved to adopt Amendment  8 to HB 368, labeled 33-                                                               
LS1170\H.10, Walsh, 3/12/24, which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "0.2 cents"                                                                                                    
     Insert "$.02"                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER explained Amendment  8 would increase the proposed                                                               
tax  credit  from 0.2  cents  per  kilowatt  hour (kWh)  [$2  per                                                               
megawatt hour  (MWh)] to 2.0  cents per kilowatt hour  (kWh) ($20                                                               
per MWh).   He maintained that 0.2  cents is too low  to make any                                                               
meaningful change  and that  raising it to  2.0 cents  would help                                                               
offset  the  real  cost  of building  the  generation  that  will                                                               
alleviate the huge spike in energy  cost that is coming soon with                                                               
natural gas imports.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE asked  whether  the cost  of Amendment  8                                                               
over the next 20 years would be $655 million cumulatively.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER replied yes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATVE SCHRAGE  stated that  $655 million  is a  big price                                                               
tag for something that the  utilities are already planning to do;                                                               
as well,  there aren't many protections  or accountability around                                                               
the bill.  While he would  like more renewables deployed, he said                                                               
he is grappling  with how the state would pay  for this given the                                                               
governor's 10-year fiscal plan shows a $10 billion deficit.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:12:45 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER reiterated  his belief that [a tax  credit of] 0.2                                                               
cents isn't going  to create any movement, and  Amendment 8 would                                                               
make the  tax credit more  enticing.   He said the  state doesn't                                                               
write a check since it is credit.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX  concurred the  state doesn't write  a check,                                                               
but  that,  semantics  aside,  a  tax  credit  is  effectively  a                                                               
dedicated  tax in  that  the state  is not  able  to spend  other                                                               
revenue.  He  agreed with Representative Schrage that  this is an                                                               
expensive subsidy and not a good idea.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked whether Representative  Prax has a different                                                               
number in mind.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX replied  that  he doesn't  have a  different                                                               
number  in mind.    He said  he agrees  that  0.2 cents  wouldn't                                                               
provide  much  incentive,  and  2  cents  would  be  more  of  an                                                               
incentive,  but  he disagrees  with  the  concept of  subsidizing                                                               
energy because it isn't a good way to distribute resources.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY removed his objection to Amendment 8.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX objected to Amendment 8.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:15:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representatives  Wright, Baker, and                                                               
Rauscher   voted   in  favor   of   Amendment   8  to   HB   368.                                                               
Representatives  Prax,   Armstrong,  McKay,  and   Schrage  voted                                                               
against  it.   Therefore,  Amendment 8  to HB  368  failed to  be                                                               
adopted by a vote of 3-4.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:15:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER moved to adopt Amendment  9 to HB 368, labeled 33-                                                               
LS1170\H.11, Walsh, 3/14/24, which read:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 1:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
     "(c)    If  the  owner  of  a  facility  places  a  new                                                                    
     generating unit or  additional generating capacity into                                                                    
     service that  is used to  generate clean energy  at the                                                                    
     facility after the effective date  of this section, the                                                                    
     owner may  apply for the clean  energy transferable tax                                                                    
     credit  for 10  years from  the  date the  new unit  or                                                                    
     additional capacity  is placed  into service,  but only                                                                    
     to the extent  of the increased amount  of clean energy                                                                    
     produced at  the facility  because of  the new  unit or                                                                    
     additional capacity."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  explained that Amendment  9 would  create clarity                                                               
and set in  statute that energy expansion  projects would qualify                                                               
for the tax credits proposed under HB 368.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX objected  to Amendment 9.  He  allowed it's a                                                               
good  business  idea  for  grocery   stores  to  give  points  to                                                               
customers for  gasoline in return  for purchasing lettuce  or for                                                               
airlines to give  frequent flyer miles that are  paid for through                                                               
ticket prices.   However,  he opined,  it's not  a good  idea for                                                               
legislators to fall for that ruse.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE removed his objection to Amendment 9.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX maintained his objection to Amendment 9.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:18:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Armstrong, McKay,                                                               
Baker, Schrage, Wright, and Rauscher  voted in favor of Amendment                                                               
9 to HB  368.  Representative Prax voted against  it.  Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 9 to HB 368 was adopted by a vote of 6-1.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:18:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WRIGHT moved  to adopt  Amendment 10  to HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.12, Walsh, 3/13/24, which read:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 1:                                                                                                  
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
          "(c)  A school district may apply for the clean                                                                       
     energy transferable  tax credit under  AS 43.98.080 for                                                                    
     clean energy produced from  a distributed energy system                                                                    
     that  is  located  on  property  owned  by  the  school                                                                    
     district and that meets the  qualifications in (b)(2) -                                                                    
     (4) of  this section, regardless of  whether the energy                                                                    
     is sold  to an unrelated  person. A school  district is                                                                    
     entitled  to  the same  amount  of  credit as  a  load-                                                                    
     serving  entity under  this section  for the  number of                                                                    
     kilowatt-hours of  clean energy produced by  the school                                                                    
     district's   distributed   energy   system.   In   this                                                                    
     subsection, "school  district" means a city  or borough                                                                    
     school  district  or  regional  educational  attendance                                                                    
     area."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10, lines 1 - 2:                                                                                                      
     Delete  "to  a  load-serving   entity,  as  defined  in                                                                    
     AS 42.05.790,"                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT  explained Amendment  10 would  add schools                                                               
as qualified producers and receivers  of the tax credits proposed                                                               
by HB  368.   He said it  would also allow  schools to  build and                                                               
generate their own energy, which could potentially reduce costs.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  stated he  is supportive of  Amendment 10                                                               
but is curious  whether school districts have asked  for this and                                                               
have the working capital to take advantage of this.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE  BAKER  responded that  the  schools  in his  rural                                                               
district would  be able to work  with the local tribes  that have                                                               
funding  coming for  renewable projects.   A  school could  write                                                               
some  kind  of   match  or  training  program   that  would  help                                                               
incentivize folks to learn how  to get into the independent power                                                               
producer (IPP) industry.  He said he appreciates the amendment.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:21:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER asked how many years  it took to get to the figure                                                               
of $650 million cited by Representative Schrage                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE replied [it would take to the year] 2051.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  inquired about the base  student allocation (BSA)                                                               
that  the  House of  Representatives  voted  to not  increase  on                                                               
[3/18/24].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE  answered  that  any policy  set  by  the                                                               
legislature has both short-term  and long-term ramifications, and                                                               
the legislature  has a duty  to look at both.   Long term,  he is                                                               
looking at the  borderline insolvency of the State  of Alaska and                                                               
the lack  of a fiscal  plan to  address the billions  in deficits                                                               
projected  over the  next  decade  and beyond.    Short term,  as                                                               
amendments  to  HB 368  are  considered,  he  is looking  at  the                                                               
capacity for entities in Alaska to take advantage of this.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PRAX asked  whether Amendment 10 could  be seen as                                                               
unnecessary.  He  surmised that another entity could  get the tax                                                               
credit and  then sell the power  to the school.   He requested an                                                               
explanation  of  why an  entity  couldn't  do that  without  this                                                               
proposed credit  for the  schools.  To  clarify his  question, he                                                               
cited  Representative  Baker's example  of  tribes  setting up  a                                                               
power  generating  system  for the  schools  but  proffered  that                                                               
tribes could set  up a clean power generating  system for anybody                                                               
and be eligible for the tax  credit anyway.  He said he therefore                                                               
questions whether this proposal would make it easier.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE BAKER  replied that under Amendment  10 as written,                                                               
school districts  may apply,  and tribes may  use their  funds to                                                               
become an  IPP and sell energy;  it's not a rule  that they must.                                                               
The example  he presented was  about potentially using  the funds                                                               
to go forward in some kind  of joint venture where different pots                                                               
of money  available in  the community are  used, given  that each                                                               
school in rural Alaska is the heart and soul of the community.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ARMSTRONG  asked whether specifically  calling out                                                               
schools  as proposed  in  Amendment 10  is  necessary or  whether                                                               
schools would already be covered elsewhere in the bill.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:26:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CRAIG  VALDEZ,  Staff,  Representative  George  Rauscher,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature,  on behalf  of Representative  Rauscher, chair                                                               
of  the House  Special Committee  on Energy,  sponsor of  HB 368,                                                               
answered that Amendment  10 is needed according to the  IPPs.  He                                                               
explained that while an IPP  would probably cover, that might not                                                               
be  the  case  in  certain  circumstances in  the  future.    For                                                               
example,  under the  federal government  right  now, schools  can                                                               
apply  for different  grant  programs not  under  IPPs but  under                                                               
their own  as a separate  school district, so Amendment  10 would                                                               
cover them in situations where an IPP would not.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:27:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE expressed  his  concern  that if  schools                                                               
deploy  renewable or  clean energy  projects,  personnel will  be                                                               
required to  work on them and  thus the focus on  education would                                                               
be taken  away.   He posited  that it would  be better  for these                                                               
projects to  be deployed by  an IPP with the  technical expertise                                                               
and ability to carry out the project.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VALDEZ answered  that under  Amendment 10  this would  be an                                                               
option  that school  districts could  take  to ease  the cost  of                                                               
energy, not an option that they must take.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE  stated he  is unsure about  giving school                                                               
districts an  option that incentivizes  them to  pursue something                                                               
other than focusing on the classroom.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:30:57 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WRIGHT  commented that Amendment 10  would provide                                                               
another option for schools to  ease the pressures of energy costs                                                               
and would not be required to be utilized.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE BAKER pointed  out that there already  is an entire                                                               
department in his home district  dedicated to the maintenance and                                                               
operation of the  school facilities and researching  fuel cost is                                                               
part of  that.  Having this  option would make it  so the schools                                                               
in his district don't have to rely on high priced diesel.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:32:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE allowed  that  his  school district  also                                                               
already has a maintenance department,  but it lacks the technical                                                               
expertise to  construct renewable  projects.   He asked  why IPPs                                                               
aren't a better option as compared to in-district departments.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER responded  that  not all  businesses  fill out  a                                                               
Schedule C  because it is  very complicated, and they  would just                                                               
as soon take the loss.   He said he supports Amendment 10 because                                                               
an option is better than no option.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE maintained his objection to Amendment 10.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE  BAKER  replied  that   his  school  district,  the                                                               
Northwest  Arctic   Borough  School  District,  works   with  the                                                               
Northwest  Arctic  Borough  which has  economic  development  and                                                               
other  departments  with people  whose  sole  job is  to  provide                                                               
energy  and  to maintain  utilities  to  schools and  the  people                                                               
throughout the communities of the North Slope Borough.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:35:31 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Armstrong, McKay,                                                               
Baker, Wright, Prax, and Rauscher  voted in favor of Amendment 10                                                               
to HB 368.  Representative  Schrage voted against it.  Therefore,                                                               
Amendment 10 to HB 368 was adopted by a vote of 6-1.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:36:18 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE  BAKER  moved to  adopt  Amendment  11 to  HB  368,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.13, Walsh, 3/13/24, which read:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, following line 1:                                                                                                  
          Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                      
     "(c)   The  owner of  a facility  that qualifies  for a                                                                    
     clean energy transferable tax credit  under (b) of this                                                                    
     section  and  produces  clean energy  for  an  electric                                                                    
     utility  that receives  power  cost equalization  under                                                                    
     AS 42.45.100 -  42.45.150 is eligible for  an increased                                                                    
     clean energy  transferable tax credit in  the amount of                                                                    
     an additional one cent for  each kilowatt-hour of clean                                                                    
     energy  that  meets the  requirements  in  (a) of  this                                                                    
     section and  is produced for the  electric utility. The                                                                    
     owner of the  facility may be the  electric utility. In                                                                    
     this  subsection, "electric  utility"  has the  meaning                                                                    
     given in AS 42.45.150."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY objected for purposes of discussion.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENATIVE BAKER explained that  Amendment 11 would allocate a                                                               
1.0 cent  per kWh  bonus to  communities already  receiving power                                                               
cost equalization (PCE) funds, using  PCE as a determining factor                                                               
for who is  receiving versus who is not.   Alaska's rural regions                                                               
face some of the highest energy  costs in the state and U.S., and                                                               
this bonus would move the needle  in the adoption of cheap versus                                                               
sustainable  energy  sources  that  could  replace  exceptionally                                                               
expensive diesel as well as  provide cash infusions for those who                                                               
are looking to invest in small rural micro-grids.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:37:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY  removed his  objection.    There being  no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 11 to HB 368 was adopted.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER stated  he  will not  be  offering Amendment  12,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.14, Walsh, 3/13/24, to HB 368.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:37:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER  moved to  adopt Amendment 13  to HB  368, labeled                                                               
33-LS1170\H.15, Walsh, 3/13/24, which read:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, line 31, through page 7, line 2:                                                                                   
     Delete all material.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE objected for discussion purposes.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY objected to Amendment 13.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  RAUSCHER explained  Amendment 13  would remove  the clause                                                               
that utilities would  not receive the credits if  they were under                                                               
a waiver.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE removed his objection to Amendment 13.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY  removed his  objection.    There being  no                                                               
further objection, Amendment 13 to HB 368 was adopted.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY [stated  he  will not  offer] Amendment  2,                                                               
labeled 33-LS1170\H.8, Walsh, 3/12/24.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:39:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER opened public testimony on HB 368, as amended.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:40:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEN  HUCKABA, representing  self, testified  in opposition  to HB
368.    He  offered  his  understanding  that  the  bill  is  not                                                               
something  the  public  wants.    He  maintained  that  this  was                                                               
originated  14 years  ago through  a "left-wing  environmentalist                                                               
organization."   He further maintained  that origination  for the                                                               
transmission  line  was  not for  redundancy  or  efficiency  but                                                               
rather for  enabling a renewable  portfolio standard.   He argued                                                               
that if  renewables truly are  cheaper, then the IPPs,  which are                                                               
for-profit, shouldn't  need credits and for-profits  shouldn't be                                                               
part of  the mix  with non-profit utilities.   He  further argued                                                               
that the people developing renewable  energy should pay the costs                                                               
of development,  not taxpayers through  a tax credit system.   He                                                               
said  the  electric  cooperatives,  which  are  overseen  by  the                                                               
Regulatory  Commission of  Alaska (RCA),  are doing  a good  job.                                                               
Alaska has coal,  oil, and gas for doing these  things and should                                                               
not  be adopting  a  globalist expansion  of  carbon control,  he                                                               
opined.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:43:55 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KASSIE ANDREWS, representing self,  testified in opposition to HB
368.  She said  she opposes the concept in the  bill but would be                                                               
okay with  it if it were  completely voluntary.  She  argued that                                                               
the idea of the state having  to mandate this energy makeup means                                                               
there is  an inherent risk  or problem, and  the end user  is not                                                               
willing  to  pay  for  unreliable  and  unaffordable  sources  of                                                               
energy.  The "trifecta to the  demise of our grid," she asserted,                                                               
is  HB  368,  the  Electric  Reliability  Organization,  and  the                                                               
mandate  to  allow  for-profit  independent  power  producers  on                                                               
Alaska's  grid.   These central  planning  mechanisms remove  the                                                               
utility boards from  having a say in  representing the ratepayers                                                               
and  will erode  the  reliability and  affordability of  Alaska's                                                               
energy.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:46:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEN  GRIFFIN, representing  self, testified  in opposition  to HB
368.   He stated  he doesn't  get the  ideas behind  these things                                                               
because  there are  no  economics.   [The  state]  cannot help  a                                                               
community by  giving it money  or subsidies, rather they  must be                                                               
helped to  stand on  their own  feet and  afford things.   Making                                                               
energy cheaper for  a period of time is just  an offset somewhere                                                               
else.   Legislators'  minds  have already  been  made up  because                                                               
these bills  are all crafted  around nothing but tax  credits and                                                               
subsidies, but a country cannot be run on tax credits.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:48:58 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TODD LINDLEY,  representing self,  testified in opposition  to HB
368.    He  said the  bill  establishes  construction  timelines,                                                               
potentially violates the privacy  of the ratepayers by collecting                                                               
personal data,  and it  relies solely on  tax credits  to provide                                                               
cost effective  energy that's not  detrimental to  the ratepayer.                                                               
In the  context of  clean energy, cost  effective energy  and not                                                               
detrimental to the ratepayer are oxymorons.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:50:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR RAUSCHER,  after ascertaining  that no  one else  wished to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 368.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
11:50:45 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCHRAGE stated  that he  supports working  toward                                                               
incentivizing and  deploying renewables  in Alaska but  still has                                                               
concerns  with  HB 368.    He  said he  is  unsure  who the  bill                                                               
supports  and  who   is  asking  for  it,   plus  the  government                                                               
subsidized  tax credit  could  significantly  impact the  state's                                                               
finances over  the next  20 years  without any  accountability to                                                               
meet the standards.  He said  the bill would subsidize status quo                                                               
actions in many  cases and doesn't do enough to  move the ball on                                                               
this issue.   More work on the bill and  on amendments is needed,                                                               
he added.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:53:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PRAX stated  he is  ambivalent and  doesn't agree                                                               
with HB  368.  He said  he is opposed  to moving out the  bill as                                                               
well as opposed to spending any more time on the bill.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:54:20 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MCKAY explained  he [did  not offer]  Amendment 2                                                               
because it would have made  most everything in the bill optional.                                                               
In principle he  agrees with the testimony heard  today, he said,                                                               
but respects  the governor and  the committee chair in  what they                                                               
are trying  to accomplish.   He stated he doesn't  like subsidies                                                               
and will vote against moving out the bill.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
11:55:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MCKAY moved  to report HB 368, as  amended, out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes and to authorize  Legislative Legal Services to make                                                               
any needed technical and conforming changes to the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCHRAGE objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:57:26 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was taken.    Representatives Baker,  Wright,                                                               
Armstrong, and  Rauscher voted in  favor of reporting HB  368, as                                                               
amended,  out of  committee with  individual recommendations  and                                                               
the accompanying  fiscal notes.   Representatives  Schrage, Prax,                                                               
and McKay voted against it.  Therefore CSHB 368(ENE) was                                                                        
reported out of the House Special Committee on Energy by a vote                                                                 
of 4-3.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:57:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Energy meeting was adjourned at 11:57 a.m.                                                                 

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