Legislature(1997 - 1998)
01/22/1998 06:08 PM House CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE COMMUNITY AND REGIONAL AFFAIRS
STANDING COMMITTEE
January 22, 1998
6:08 p.m.
Bethel, Alaska
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
WESTERN ALASKA ECONOMIC DISASTER BRIEFING AND TESTIMONY
TAPE(S)
98-2, SIDE(S) A & B
98-3, SIDE(S) A & B
98-4, SIDE(S) A
CALL TO ORDER
Representative Ivan, Chairman, convened the House Community and
Regional Affairs Standing Committee meeting at 6:08 p.m. at the
Kuna Hall in Bethel.
PRESENT
Committee members present at the call to order were Representatives
Ivan, Dyson, Joule, Ryan and Sanders. Representatives Ogan and
Kookesh were absent. Also attending via teleconference was
Representative Phillips, Speaker of the House.
SUMMARY OF INFORMATION
TAPE 98-2, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN IVAN IVAN explained that the purpose of the meeting is to
get as much information as possible on the poor fishing season that
occurred in the Lower Kuskokwim this past summer and the economic
consequences with which they are now faced in the area. After the
Governor declared an economic disaster in Western Alaska area, the
community responded by participating in the Coordinated Response
Partnership (CRP) teams program. Representative Ivan thanked all
the participants (a list was provided). He also acknowledged the
memberships that participated in developing the CRP: the
Association of Village Council Presidents (AVCP), the Department of
Agriculture RDA and the Alaska Housing Finance Corporation (AHFC).
Number 080
REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS, Speaker of the House, spoke via
teleconference. She expressed concern about the long-term economic
effects the area will face due to the diminished fish returns in
1997. She stated that the economic disaster also affects the urban
centers as well, such as Anchorage and many others that will not
get as many dollars as they have received in the past from rural
residents who spend a lot of money in urban areas. Speaker
Phillips said it is important that plans be put into place to jump-
start the economies of both the Kuskokwim and Bristol Bay
communities and regions, which were affected by these poor returns
during last summer's fishing season.
Number 164
JIM SANDERS, Supervisor, Southcentral Regional Office, Division of
Municipal And Regional Assistance, Department of Community and
Regional Affairs (DCRA), acknowledged the AVCP and Representative
Ivan's staff. Mr. Sanders discussed the CRP process and plans
adopted by Department of Commerce in Washington, D.C. Mr. Sanders
explained that he was hoping to get federal assistance and had gone
in two directions. One was the Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA), asking for money for employment insurance and for
availability of their Small Business Administration (SBA) loan
program. Mr. Sanders stated, "As you know, FEMA has turned us
down." Despite this, the Governor's office was in the process of
reviewing the case. Two was to the Magnuson-Stevens Act. This was
something that was newly introduced this past year, and there was
no funding for that particular element of the program, so they had
to turn to the congressional delegation and were successful in
securing $7 million for the disaster. The state needs to match
that with a 25 percent match, so we need $2.3 million, which will
make a total of $9.3 million. Mr. Sanders explained how the plans
and funds will be carried out when they became available.
Number 328
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE asked Mr. Sanders if the state match is
a required match in order to receive the $7 million of federal
money.
MR. SANDERS responded that a 25 percent match is required.
Number 336
CHAIRMAN IVAN asked Mr. Sanders if the $7 million was available
now.
MR. SANDERS replied it was, although it would take a while to get
it through the contracting procedures and into the hands of the
state. Due to the time frame, disbursement wouldn't happen until
mid-to-late March.
Number 362
PETER J. MILLER, P.O. Box 8065, Tuntutuliak, Alaska, (907) 256-
2626, testified in Yup'ik.
Number 390
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Mr. Miller's testimony about poor
financial conditions in Tuntutuliak due to the fishery. Mr. Miller
commented on the problems currently faced by the Kuskokwim
fishermen and other commercial fishermen in surrounding villages.
His concern was paying for light bills and some expenses that
include telephone bills, water, sewer; he also needs heating oil,
gasoline and motor oil for snow machines (indisc.) summertime.
There is also a need for people to continue their subsistence way
of life through maintaining their snow machines, like buying parts.
His concern is also commercial fishing gear for the upcoming
season.
Number 428
AL LEXIE testified in Yup'ik via teleconference from Atmautluak
(address not provided.)
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Mr. Lexie's testimony of general comments
about the poor fishing season.
Number 458
MIKE WASSILIE, SR., P.O. Box 8084, Tuntutuliak, Alaska 99680, (907)
256-2210, testified in Yup'ik.
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Mr. Wassilie's testimony. Mr. Wassilie
had the same concerns as the last two speakers, about housing bills
and general all-around bills. He also had some questions about the
money that was advocated for the loan program. Chairman Ivan
answered the questions in Yup'ik for Mr. Wassilie.
MR. SANDERS again summarized the loan process, saying 20 percent
off the top of the whole amount will be for the loan program that
will be available both in Bristol Bay and the Kuskokwim. Loans
will probably be somewhere between $100 and $1,500. The terms for
the loan are very generous in that it is an interest-free loan and
an individual would have at least four years, starting after this
coming fishing season, to pay that loan back. If there was a bad
year, the loan repayment could be put off for a year. One option
to secure the loan is for people to sign over part of their Alaska
permanent fund dividend (PFD). If one borrowed $2,000 over a four-
year period, $500 would be deducted from the PFD. If one made
enough money during the fishing season, the loan could be paid back
after that season.
CARL BERGER, Executive Director, Lower Kuskokwim Economical
Development Council (LKEDC), Box 2021, Bethel, Alaska, 99559 (907)
543-5967, encouraged support for the supplemental appropriation
that was going to be requested by the DCRA. Mr. Berger spoke about
a number of things that are causing hardships along with the poor
fishing. The LKEDC is trying to work on development of
alternatives to selling fish. Mr. Berger also encouraged support
for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game's (ADF&G's) budget so
that they can provide adequate fisheries research and resource
monitoring during the commercial season. Mr. Berger stated, "As a
personal request, I advocate for allowing fish and game management
to remain with the state. It is very important that people in our
state feel strongly that we should be in position to manage our own
fish and game resources and not turn them over to the federal
government for management. We are a state."
TAPE 98-2, SIDE B
Number 583
JOHN ANDREW, (907) 557-5515, testified in Yup'ik via teleconference
(no address provided).
Number 687
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Mr. Andrew's testimony. Mr. Andrew was
testifying on behalf of himself and has been a Bristol Bay
fisherman and had also served as a pastor. Since 1995, he has
retired from pastorship. His only income is from commercial
fishing. Most recently he had physical problems and was unable to
fish, so he leased out his Bristol Bay permit. Mr. Andrew is
trying to use his resources wisely but is running out of resources.
Currently, he has two loans; one is for federal taxes, and he has
been working on paying that. By the end of February, he is going
to be out of funds. He made comments on what he has learned
through the newspaper about the plan that was discussed at the
beginning of the hearing and that the FEMA program was not
approved. Chairman Ivan briefly gave Mr. Andrew some of the
components of the plan; that was presented in Yup'ik.
Number 728
JESSE BEAVER testified in Yup'ik via teleconference from Goodnews
Bay.
Number 756
MAGGIE SOLTS testified via teleconference from Goodnews Bay. A
herring fisherman, Ms. Solts had been told that she was not
eligible to apply for any application because she is a herring
fisherman, not a salmon fisherman.
Number 770
MR. SANDERS explained that the disaster was aimed at the salmon
fishery collapse in both the Kuskokwim and the Bristol Bay
fisheries and was not based upon the decline in the herring. The
application for those funds had to be very specific about what
fishery was being talked about and what the disaster was; and the
Governor's declaration identified the salmon fisheries and not the
herring fisheries.
Number 784
MS. SOLTS asked if there was a way she could be eligible as a
herring fisherman. She explained that she made half of what she
made last year, and herring is her sole salary for the year.
Number 790
MR. SANDERS responded that he had received a number of calls from
other people that are also involved in the herring fishery. Mr.
Sanders explained that the way the disaster declaration regulations
are written pertaining to funds, there was not a way for herring
fishermen to participate in this particular disaster program.
Number 810
WASSILIE ROBERTS testified in Yup'ik via teleconference from
Goodnews Bay.
Number 848
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Mr. Roberts' testimony. Mr. Roberts
fishes herring and salmon. Mr. Roberts is concerned about low
prices in herring and that Goodnews Bay has no buyers in the early
season. Coho salmon fishing is poor. He had comments similar to
those of previous callers.
Number 863
JACKSON WILLIAMS, SR., Box 128, Akiak, Alaska, 99552, (907) 765-
7428, testified representing the Akiak IRA Council. Five years ago
he transferred his permit to his older son. His son died about two
years ago, and now he is a permit holder again. Fishing is Mr.
Williams' only employment. He was very concerned that fishing will
not get better. He would like to see more enforcement in Area M to
ensure chum are not being thrown out. He also said there was a
need for more state resource personnel to help.
Number 986
FRED SMITH, Box 219, Bethel, Alaska, (907) 543-7375, testified
representing the AVCP as a CRP member. Their first concern was to
try to help meet the immediate needs of the fishermen on the
Kuskokwim and then deal with the longer-term issues. Given the
time frame with the federal funds that Jim Sanders mentioned
earlier, they strongly encourage the legislature to respond to
Governor Knowles' supplemental request for appropriations, both the
25 percent match the state is obligated to meet and, for more
immediate needs, the emergency unemployment insurance appropriation
that would directly help individual families in the villages. With
the FEMA denial, the state would be the next-best bet to come up
with the funds for that emergency unemployment insurance. Mr.
Smith said another thing that they at AVCP feel needs to be done is
that the disaster declaration area needs to be expanded to include
all the communities affected: Quinhagak, Goodnews Bay, Kipnuk,
Chefornak, Nightmute, Toksook Bay, et cetera. One of the long-term
issues, resource stabilization, is a primary concern.
REPRESENTATIVE FRED DYSON stated, "Representative Ivan and I are
particularly interested in changing state laws, making it easier
for villages to organize in a way that is both comfortable and
within resources that they have. We very much encourage you to
forward to us your suggestions on how the law should be changed to
make it easier for you to have a government that is recognized by
the state, that is comfortable for you, and that would be a
legitimate channel for all those resources and hopefully work
together with the other forms of governments."
MR. SMITH responded that they have experienced disadvantages this
summer. He gave an example of the rapid response program of the
DCRA; the Bristol Bay side was able to tap into those funds to
start assessing the economic and social impacts of the fishery
disaster. It was not until the 18th or 19th of December that there
was an RP that AVCP, as a regional nonprofit, could apply for those
funds to assess the economical impacts. By that time, AVCP had
already spent quite a bit of their time and resources doing that.
If there were state resources designed to be put to use in the
event of a disaster like this one, then there should be a way to
channel those resources to the affected area. It was not possible
to tap into those funds as easily as a borough or municipal
government could.
REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN asked Mr. Smith if the fisherman have fish
landing taxes or some kind of tax.
MR. SMITH responded that the only places you will see the raw fish
tax is in the city of Bethel and on the Bristol Bay side, the
boroughs and the city of Dillingham. Those communities that are
experiencing this disaster count on that fish tax or those
entities.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Smith who needs the money more, the
community or the individuals.
MR. SMITH said he thought that with the time that it has taken,
there are some federal funds in sight that are going to eventually
make it out to the communities. But because these communities rely
on their residents to pay for public services, it has trickled into
the public sector now. The AVCP's first concern was where to try
to help the affected fisherman with fuel, electricity and those
kinds of costs. There are two avenues available, one being the
Division of Public Assistance, which offered the seasonal waiver
this summer for welfare recipients; that did not include everyone.
Given the numbers that were approved for that waiver, it resulted
in a minimal impact. The other help that has been available is
through the AVCP's social services department, where they
administer funds for energy and general assistance.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN explained the reason the borough or (indisc.--
muffled) because the country makes sure the money is spent the way
it is suppose to be spent. Representative Ryan suggested that the
community puts suggestions together to set up (indisc.) whichever
entity receives it. That way, the state can take responsibility to
know where the money is going and that there is some accountability
for it. That is probably the reluctance of the state not to give
it to a organized entity in the unorganized borough.
MR. SMITH responded that until it is given, there is not going to
be the opportunity for any community to be responsible for the
accounting side of it.
CHAIRMAN IVAN commented that we would like to take some of the
hurdles away, to get the help down to the families and communities.
He understood that one of the hurdles that might be (indisc.--
muffled) municipalities. His understanding from Mr. Sanders is
that for time efficiency, any village organization can take
responsibility and provide financial reports. Chairman Ivan said
he was assured by Mr. Sanders they would work with whomever - for
example, traditional councils or IRAs - in executing the plan.
Chairman Ivan asked Jim Sanders if that was correct.
MR. SANDERS responded, "Yes, I think it's the language of that
proposal that it is up to the community to determine the avenue
that those funds are going to come in and re-administer."
STAN BERLIN testified in Yup'ik via teleconference from Atmautluak.
TAPE 98-3, SIDE A
Number 0097
JAMES NICKLAI testified in Yup'ik.
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated Stan Berlin's and James Nicklai's
testimony. He said Mr. Berlin and Mr. Nicklai had concerns about
the plan and loan program. Mr. Ivan explained to Mr. Berlin and
Mr. Nicklai that it is his understanding that that could be
renegotiated, if necessary, to meet their income situations in
commercial fishery.
TOM WRIGHT, Committee Aide, House Community and Regional Affairs
Standing Committee, and Legislative Assistant to Representative
Ivan Ivan, stated, "Fred Smith gave me the numbers you requested;
I will go through this paragraph real quickly. This information is
from Division of Commercial Fisheries' September news release.
Kuskokwim permit holders received $1,058,102 for their catch. The
value of the catch was $4,391,755, 80 percent below the previous
ten-year average of $5,449,861. The average permit holder received
$1,505; this was below the most recent ten-year average of $6757
per permit holder; that was a '97 figure."
Number 164
JOSEPH ALEXIE, Box 135, Tuluksak (city), Alaska 99679, (907) 695-
6922, testified representing Tuluksak Tribal Council. He is a
Kuskokwim fisherman. Mr. Alexie commented on low prices and how it
hurts the fishery. He also explained his loan payments and his
situation in Tuluksak. He is concerned about Tuluksak being last
on the list for help from state funds.
CHAIRMAN IVAN responded that the (indisc.) of the community council
is no (indisc.--muffled) problem as long as there is an active
village government that can keep financial records, as required for
the funds as they are disbursed. These funds are also (indisc.)
the communities and we certainly encourage the communities to do
what they can to help.
ANTHONY CAOLE, Tribal Administrator, Quinhagak, testified via
teleconference. He is concerned that Quinhagak and Goodnews Bay
have been excluded from the disaster relief program. The majority
of their permit holders are in Quinhagak and are holding Kuskokwim
permits. The value of the Quinhagak fishery W4 for the last eight
years has averaged about $950,000. In 1996 it dropped to $535,000,
and in 1997 it dropped even further, to $498,000, half of what the
average was. This last summer was worse, due to the fact that so
many of the fisherman from Kuskokwim villages came down to
Quinhagak to fish. They were literally deluged with other
fishermen. The value of the W4 fishery in 1997 was $498,000. They
figured that 55 percent of that went to Quinhagak and 45 percent
went to other fishermen in other villages. They have never seen so
many fishermen come down as in 1997. Local government also felt
the effects; for example, by the end of the summer the public
safety building was demolished. Quinhagak strongly feels that they
should be included in the disaster relief programs.
Number 303
JOSHUA CLEVELAND, Quinhagak National Resource Director, testified
via teleconference. He gave his views on economic disaster. He
expressed concerns about Quinhagak not being included in the
disaster relief declaration.
Number 365
VERNON BAVILLA, Quinhagak Natural Resource Department, testified
via teleconference. He was concerned that Quinhagak and Goodnews
Bay areas are not being included in the disaster relief
declaration. Money should be available not only in the form of
grants and loans to the villages, but also to individual permit
holders. He made comments on there being too many fisherman from
other villages coming to Quinhagak. Mr. Bavillo asked the
committee, "What about making money available to the local
communities to establish value-added facilities so we can get away
from raw fish and start value-adding their products?"
Number 401
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Jim Sanders why Quinhagak and Goodnews
Bay were excluded and if there is an appeal process.
Number 404
MR. SANDERS responded, "I can't exactly explain why, but I know the
Governor's office was identifying areas. They were looking at the
current numbers of fish that where being caught and the number of
openings that had occurred. The Kuskokwim, I believe there were
only two openings for the chum fishery. The Administration was
looking for numbers that were there; I am not a expert, so I can't
really speak with expertise. But the Quinhagak and the Goodnews
Bay fisheries, at least to my understanding, did have openings and
they did have fishery activities going on; as for the other areas,
they did not. I believe that was the reason that those areas where
in line for inclusion or exclusion."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked Mr. Sanders if there was any way that
the residents of those areas or the DCRA could appeal that
exclusion at this point in the process.
MR. SANDERS responded, "I don't know if the CRA or communities
could appeal it, but it is certainly something we could explore to
see if it could be expanded. I don't know how we would expand it
in the current funding in the Magnuson-Stevens Act. I don't think
the door is closed on asking for additional funding. We are
looking for more funding in the future now that we have the actual
numbers."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented. "If I understand you, the process
for this grant through the Magnuson-Stevens Act is completed, and
it is too late to change the boundaries of it."
MR. SANDERS responded that he really did not know because it is a
brand new program and there really are very few regulations in
dealing with Congress. But their decision was based upon what the
Governor identified in the original declaration. To go back and
open it up for renegotiation, Mr. Sanders said, he really doesn't
know what that process would be.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked: If the DCRA or individuals wanted to
pursue that, would the Governor's office be the place to pursue the
appeal?
MR. SANDERS responded, "That would definitely be the place to
pursue it."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON commented to Anthony Caole, the Tribal
Administer of Quinhagak, that the CRA committee was impressed by
the cooperative local government in Quinhagak. He also stated that
the committee is in a process to try to revise the state law to
make it easier for local communities to do their business and to
interact with the federal and state governments. Mr. Dyson said
that the committee would like to hear any suggestions they may
have.
ANTHONY CAOLE responded, "For the record, the committee member that
had a concern about accountability with tribal government, our
community has had four years of unqualified audits operating
federal programs and we are now eligible for what the government
calls self-government status, which allows us to receive funds
directly from the United States with very little strings attached.
In a sense, we have demonstrated more accountability than the
borough. With regards to fostering our cooperative approach to
government, Quinhagak, I believe, is the only community in the
state of Alaska that has consolidated their municipal and tribal
administrations. Our tribal government is currently administering
all the city's funds. The reason this has happened is because the
municipalities have been defunded to the point that they can no
longer sustain and operate themselves. The tribal government had
to assist the city in order to keep the city functioning.
Quinhagak's hope is that the legislature will allow tribes to
receive funds directly from the state without creating further
administrative arms, such as nonprofits. We would also like this
approach to [be] officially sanctioned or approved by the state and
that the issue (indisc.--muffled) delegating these responsibilities
through their IRA councils, et cetera, that it be approved by the
legislature."
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON responded, "That's the very thing that the
committee is interested in doing, and we would be very glad if you
dropped the committee a note, or call."
[10-minute break.]
Number 479
BUSTER RICHARDSON, Box 371, Bethel, Alaska, 99559, (907) 543-3397,
Tender Operator, explained that several people along the river are
tender operators and do not hold fish permits. However, they live
in the community and have families. Most of the money the tender
boats made went to fuel oil. Mr. Richardson pointed out that
tender workers were hit as hard as the fisherman, yet in the
proposal he did not see anywhere that the tender operators would be
able to benefit at all from the program. For an example, his boat
did not make any money this year, so they had to let the insurance
lapse. He also made comments on Quinhagak and Goodnews Bay being
left out. Mr. Richardson stated that there are six to eight tender
operators in the community who all hire not only from Bethel but
also from villages up and down the river, and they serve the river
from Aniak to Goodnews Bay.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Richardson how much would it take to
get him, individually, back to work next year.
MR. RICHARDSON responded, "That is hard to say; in a sense, my
insurance alone is $6,000 for the season. That is $6,000 I've got
to pay for a boat I can only use three months out of the year; the
rest of the time it sits. I will have to come up with enough funds
to get the insurance company to reinstate my insurance policy. I
am assuming that a couple of grand to start with; that is not
counting what I have to do to my boat to get it ready. Plus my
helper, I end up buying their permits at the beginning of the
season. I would guess a minimum of $4,000 just to get me in the
water."
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Richardson if he had a ballpark
figure if the individual caucus member and the legislature were to
offer covering people who are not eligible, along the same lines as
those that are.
MR. RICHARDSON responded that he could probably come up with a
figure.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Richardson if he could put together
some quotes and send that down to Representative Ivan.
MR. RICHARDSON replied, "Yes, I would be more than happy to do
that".
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN stated, "That if we could sell this idea, I
think it would be more easy to sell to the caucus if we talk about
that, perhaps some kind of emergency loan rather than people saying
another handout to the Bush. If we would try get some money and
make it available for loans, perhaps the same provisions as the
feds are doing, and if you have another bad year we could work with
you on that."
MR. RICHARDSON responded that he thought it would be a good idea
and that the fisherman would go for it, too. One other aspect he
would like the legislature to look at is that fishermen have gone
to the processor and said, "I am in desperate need of a motor unit
for my boat; can you front me a thousand dollars?" Sometimes they
will do that, and in turn, each time the fisherman sells his fish
to one of the operators for that processor, a percentage is
deducted and pretty soon it is paid off. Mr. Richardson stated
that to him it seems like a logical way for any kind of a loan made
to these fisherman.
TAPE 98-3, SIDE B
REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked Mr. Richardson, since he works
from one end of the Kuskokwim River to the other, if he may be in
the position to say whether the legislature may be able to do
something like this. Representative Sanders explained that there
are long-run and short-run problems, and we are really addressing
the short-run problem now. He also asked Mr. Richardson whether in
regards to the long-run problem, he thinks that the poor runs and
the poor prices have brought the industry on the Kuskokwim to a
position that there might be a chance that they can form co-ops or
unions, some way to unite and have more influence over the market.
MR. RICHARDSON responded that there needs to be a program set up
for value-added fish products. He would like to see a co-op, but
he doesn't think it would work. Mr. Richardson stated, "That's
what has happened in the past, and the poor prices that the
fisherman receive, there is no real incentive, for example, in
Bristol Bay for a guy making 2 or 3 hundred thousand a year in his
big boat. Sure, I would jump into a co-op and really work hard
with it for that kind of money, but when a man is making 2, 3, 4
thousand in a whole season, there is not much incentive to really
get out and break your back." He also explained that there is a
fishermen's union and they have tried. In his experience he has
not seen that entity being workable.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN stated, "I have something maybe you can help me
out on. I sit on budget subcommittee, and Alaska Seafood Marketing
Institute (ASMI) is part of that. They can come to us telling us
they need millions of dollars for marketing, they can access
federal funds and so forth, but I have not really seen where their
efforts have (indisc.)." Mr. Ryan asked Mr. Richardson what his
opinion is, and how it affects him.
MR. RICHARDSON explained that he feels that the union is more of a
benefit to the larger fish processors in the state, which in effect
is a trickle-down thing that affected them, too. He also stated
that he has not heard anybody say anything bad about it and that
there are positive aspects to it, one way or another. It benefits
the state of Alaska and it helps everybody, but as far as directly
in their pocket, no. Most of them feel that it mostly benefits the
big processors, not so much the fisherman.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Richardson if he had any contact with
ASMI, and if so, did they talk to him about how they may help him
market his fish.
MR. RICHARDSON responded that no, as a tender operator he is not
always invited to attend those meetings.
Number 734
CHAIRMAN IVAN said to Jim Sanders, "My understanding of the
proposal that was developed was to see how far it trickled down and
affects the tender operators; for example, Jessie Beaver of
Goodnews Bay made some comments that they sell whenever there are
processors available or buyers in the area. That seems like a weak
link that contributes to this problem."
MR. SANDERS responded that they really wanted to rely on the
expertise of the region. Money and resources should get to the
individual fisherman, and that was their primary concern. That is
why the majority of the money is going to go into the community
grants. Grants are a way of getting people to work so they can get
money, so that fisherman can get employed after the fishing season
and have some additional income. That is the direct purpose of the
grant programs. Commerce would not give money directly to
fishermen without providing some sort of service. As far as
providing money to tenders or to private businesses, that was not
a priority that came out of either Bristol Bay or the Kuskokwim
CRP. Mr. Sanders explained that they went with the local
expertise. Originally when the Governor made a request to the FEMA
program, part of that request asked for money for unemployment
insurance and part asked for the SBA low-interest loan program.
That would have been available to businesses such as tenders or
stores in communities that have lack of income. It is still an
option, that they are seeking to get funding or at least allow
impacted businesses to apply for the SBA.
CHAIRMAN IVAN extended his thanks to Mr. Richardson for his
testimony and stated that he would personally check it out with the
Fish and Game budget committee, to see what in fact could be done.
Number 793
MR. RICHARDSON responded with his appreciation and went on to say,
"An income criteria will be used (indisc.) at least 51 percent of
the net earned family income is derived from fishing". Mr.
Richardson then asked: What do you do with a family of three that
makes maybe $3,000 for fishing and the total family income is maybe
$8,000 to $12,000 for the year? He did not think that there are
many permit holders that can meet that criteria.
Number 807
MAX ANGELLAN, P.O. Box 77, Kwethluk, Alaska 99621, (907) 757-6714,
Tribal Administrator and City Council Member, thanked the committee
and expressed concerns about the plans and money for fuel, et
cetera, for subsistence reasons. He also would like to see these
people being helped with their electricity and other payments. Mr.
Angellan emphasized the need for fish counting stations. In his
opinion, if there is research and planning, future disasters can be
avoided. He also expressed that he is not happy with the Board of
Fisheries.
Number 020
STANLEY BEAN, Kwethluk, suggested putting the 200-mile limit to a
300-mile limit, and for Area M, reducing from 700,000 the quotas
back to 350,000.
Number 031
DAVID BERLIN, Nunapitchuk, stated that it would be better for the
money to be provided to the fisherman rather than to the community.
He mentioned that Buster Richardson commented on whether the
villages could reunite to get some funding for the processing plant
management problem. He said he also supported a pay increase for
public safety and VPSOs.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Jim Sanders about his comments about the
money going to the community and not to individuals. He asked, "Is
part of the reason for that because if it went to individuals, a
lot of money would leave the state on account of funds going to
permit holders not from Alaska?"
Number 074
MR. SANDERS responded that that was one of the concerns. He said
they don't want a lot of funds to go out of state. The other
problem was that Commerce was adamant that they would not give
money directly to fishermen, that there had to be either a loan
program or some sort of employment program.
Number 084
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked Mr. Sanders if it was the intent under
community employment that permit holders and crew would be the
recipients of the community employment grants.
Number 088
MR. SANDERS responded that those were definitely the target group
for employment. He said that the cannery workers are also very
affected, but those people who are most directly affected are the
ones that they want to see employed in these projects.
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked, in regards to Mr. Richardson's
testimony earlier, whether that would apply to tender operators.
He is not included as a permit holder but under community
employment. If some of the money were to come to Bethel, would
tender operators be eligible for potential employment under this
scenario?
MR. SANDERS responded that it is really going to be up to the
community to define (indisc.--muffled) as much of this decision
making as we can to the community level. Bethel puts together
plans, and if that is one group that they want to target, then
Bethel should encourage it.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Sanders if there was discretion that
once the money hits a community, the community, if they so choose,
can make individual grants.
MR. SANDERS responded that Commerce does not want grants directed
to individuals.
Number 108
JACK HOPSTAD, AVCP, VPSO Program Coordinator, Box 219, Bethel,
Alaska 99559, (907 543-7391), provided a memorandum dated January
22, 1998, to committee members about the VPSO program, asking the
committee to consider eligibility for VPSOs.
Number 162
ALLEN ALIRKAR, Box 2025, Bethel, Alaska, (907) 543-5836, stated
that he is a Bristol Bay permit holder. He asked the committee
whether the state has a plan if future economical disaster occurs.
He also asked that the state form some sort of committee to back up
on loans.
CHAIRMAN IVAN asked Jim Sander about future plans.
TAPE 98-4, SIDE A
Number 001
MR. SANDERS responded, "Yes, at least for this funding that we are
using now, it is a brand-new approach and a brand-new resource, and
Alaska is sort of on the cutting edge because we are defining how
the Magnuson-Stevens money will be used in the future. That is one
reason why Commerce has been hesitant about how this money is
used." Mr. Sanders explained that there is no comprehensive
planning as of yet.
Number 041
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN asked Mr. Sanders if he has been able to work
out a program for the small commercial fisherman.
Number 060
MR. SANDERS responded that was the purpose of having the two CRP
organizations, that Bristol Bay understood their fishery and the
Kuskokwim CRP understood their fishery. The programs were
developed from their recommendations.
REPRESENTATIVE RYAN responded that he would be interested in
looking at something that addresses what a bad year does to the
smaller commercial fisherman and in making a program that can tide
them over.
Number 086
JOBE ABRAHAM, SR., Box 71, Chefornak, Alaska ,(907) 867-8893,
testified in Yup'ik.
CHAIRMAN IVAN translated. Mr. Abraham, Sr., is a fisherman in
Bristol Bay. He commented about the high cost of living
experienced in Chefornak.
Number 260
MR. ABRAHAM asked questions of Jim Sanders about the Internal
Revenue Service (IRS).
Number 268
MR. SANDERS responded that there is nothing directly available to
assist other than the loan program. However, the department has
worked with the IRS and they have had IRS representatives out in
all the communities offering to work with fishermen to help them
develop repayment schedules and to eliminate penalties and
interest. The IRS has participated in a lot of the meetings and
has been very active in the CRP process.
Number 304
DARIO NOTTI, P.O. Box 2175, Bethel, Alaska, (907) 543-3072, Bethel
City Council, stated that eight of the last sixteen years he has
fished as a crew member and worked other jobs, but he did not fish
this year. What worried him was that the city council will vote on
hiring a fisherman or a carpenter to build a boardwalk. That money
might not go to where it is supposed to. He would like to see
something that does not give them that option if the money is given
to the council instead of the fisherman.
Number 429
MYRON P. NANENG, SR., Box 1226, Bethel, Alaska, (907) 543-7301,
President, AVCP, stated that 1997 was the second disaster
declaration, the first being in 1993. People anticipate another
disaster in the year 2001. He also said that the state subsidized
hatcheries. Maybe they should subsidize the transportation of chum
in the Y-K Delta. The committee needs to look at how matching
funds are to be utilized.
CHAIRMAN IVAN gave closing remarks and thanked all those who
participated in the hearing and the teleconference.
COMMITTEE ACTION
The committee took no action.
NOTE:
The meeting was recorded and handwritten log notes were taken. A
copy of the tape(s) and log notes may be obtained by contacting the
House Records Office at 130 Seward Street, Suite 211, Juneau,
Alaska 99801-1182, (907) 465-2214, and after adjournment of the
second session of the Twentieth Alaska State Legislature, in the
Legislative Reference Library.
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